NBN changes mind again: Some HFC suburbs to get FTTN after all

194

news The NBN company last week reportedly said it would deploy its Fibre to the Node rollout model to some areas already covered by HFC cable networks, in a move which appears to represent the second time the company has changes its policy on the issue.

Under the Coalition’s original NBN policy, which Malcolm Turnbull took to the 2013 Federal Election as Shadow Communications Minister, the NBN company was not to explicitly use the HFC cable networks owned by Telstra and Optus as part of its rollout plans. Instead, the areas covered by those networks were still to receive the Coalition’s preferred Fibre to the Node infrastructure.

After the release of the NBN company’s Strategic Review in 2013, the NBN company changed its approach to this issue, deciding at that point not to deploy FTTN within areas already covered by the HFC networks. Instead, the NBN company planned to buy and upgrade those networks.

However, according to the Sydney Morning Herald, the NBN company has again changed its policy on the issue.

Last week the NBN company paid for a busload of technology journalists to tour several NBN sites in Queensland, including the early stage trial rollout zone for HFC cable in Redcliffe.

At the event, according to journalist Adam Turner, NBN chief executive Bill Morrow said some streets within HFC suburbs would, in fact, receive FTTN infrastructure, where it was deemed easier to roll out FTTN rather than extending the HFC networks. Delimiter recommends readers click through for the full article.

“Originally we thought, no problem, we’ll probably just pull coaxial down those overlooked streets and continue with the HFC build that was there, but we find that there are better economics in using technologies like FttN and/or potentially even some fixed-wireless applications,” Morrow reportedly said.

Delimiter believes questions about the NBN company overbuilding HFC cable areas with Fibre to the Node infrastructure were also raised at the recent NBN Senate Select Committee hearings in Canberra, although the Hansard transcript from the session is not yet publicly available.

The NBN company has not yet confirmed which areas the change will affect. However, Morrow’s comments have substantial implications for end users on the NBN network.

They effectively mean that in some suburbs of Australia, different premises sometimes in the same street will have four different mechanisms for connecting to the NBN.

Some premises will have access to Labor’s original Fibre to the Premises model for the NBN (the most technically superior model), while others will have Fibre to the Node, Fibre to the Basement or HFC cable.

Despite the radically different nature of these technologies and their differing capabilities (for example reliability, latency as well as speed), retail ISPs are currently charging the same broadband pricing for access to them.

Morrow’s comments appear to illustrate that the NBN company’s rollout is likely to become even more complex and heterogenuous than it currently is.

194 COMMENTS

  1. Sooner, Cheaper, Faster huh?

    This sounds more and more like Clown Car provisioning from the Senior Leadership team, with all of this going on in the back end, I’m not surprised about the increase in leaks to the media, as the technical staff must be losing their collective minds over these clown car antics

  2. So once again… the lack of a unified methodology results in a hodge podge approach… Madness.

  3. This has been for a while .. but is now a very public … sh*t show. A Las Vegas chorus line couldn’t dance this well.

    *shakes head*

    I’m torn between wanting to look away, or to keep watching intently to see how far this can degenerate into farce.

  4. What implication does this house-by-house mixture have for a privatisation of nbn along technological boundaries??? What kind of network spaghetti would a new owner inherit?

    • I don’t think anyone would want to own this network. NBN is building an unsellable network with the way things are going right now. Who wants to own copper in this century?

  5. “Originally we thought, no problem, we’ll probably just pull coaxial down those overlooked streets and continue with the HFC build that was there, but we find that there are better economics in using technologies like FttN and/or potentially even some fixed-wireless applications,” Morrow reportedly said.

    Sounds like a rational and the most cost effective approach, the problem is what?

    They effectively mean that in some suburbs of Australia, different premises sometimes in the same street will have four different mechanisms for connecting to the NBN.

    I find it highly unlikely residences in the same street will have four different NBN fixed line infrastructures running down them.

    • I purchased a very expensive car.
      Then I found out cycling is more economical, so the car sits in the garage now.

    • “Sounds like a rational and the most cost effective approach, the problem is what?”
      You, obviously.

    • “rational”

      In what universe? The fucked up Conservative universe run by extreme Right-wing nut jobs of course!

      • @ Derek.

        Seems alain is agreeing with the NBN staff and Conroy after all – that HFC being upgraded is indeed Operation Clusterfuck.

        Of course last week and before that he was heralding the use of the FAILED HFC networks (his words, previous to that…lol) and DOCSIS 3.1 (the Cable TV turbo).

        The perpetual illogical contradictions are…

        PRICELESS.

        I think this analogy to Donald Trump’s supporters sums up our friend alain perfectly…

        One of the most perplexing parts of the Donald Trump experience is that his fans don’t seem to believe in anything. They hold no principles they won’t instantly abandon on a whim; they never practice what they preach, and what they preach has absolutely no relation to reality.

        It’s like the author knows our dear friend, inside and out.

        • Yep, once a again Alain shows his of cognitive dissonance!

          Surely there’s some drugs to help people with problems like him?

          • When you don’t have a rational answer fall back to personal attack, consistent as always eh DO?

            The same MtM bashers band of brothers lynch mob mentality at work as usual.

          • Alain, you are incapable of rational discussion therefore I apply the old mantra of not casting pearls before swine, or in your case LibTroll’s.

          • Still using draft work in progress hypothetical scenario NBN Co figures to cook up statistical outcomes you want?

          • Q. Ever wondered why YOU and primarily only you continually incite the wrath here, alain.

            A. No

            I thought not, please continue with the complete contradictions, childish responses and factless BS… and of course, when you are unable to answer (perpetually) simply sob about poor alain being picked on or disappear.

          • Q. Ever wondered why YOU and primarily only you continually incite the wrath here,

            No I never wonder why, being the only one in the majority of discussions prepared to take on the mindless MtM bashing, in most cases purely based on emotion or stacking the argument, it is of no surprise whatever.

          • Ah, Sir Reality, the White Knight of MTM holding back the FttP hordes single handed!!

            Very romantic ;o)

          • Tin you sure to claim devoid as a white knight wouldn’t it be better as a black rook

          • @Jason K

            I was referring to his self image, I know we all see him as Monty Python’s Black Knight, “What are you gonna do, bleed on me?!” :o)

          • “No I never wonder why…”

            Err “exactly as I prophesied…the answer is a clear NO”… GOLD.

            When you stop to wonder, then you might stop sobbing and commenting like a child.

            I rest my case…

            You’re welcome

    • why buy both if any of the HFC networks? If some of its going to be overbuilt by yet another tech we bought off the shelf that also needs to make a ROI are we just not robbing Peter to pay Paul?

      also you’re not concerned about the mention of using fixed wireless? (considering that’s a pretty darn expensive option).

    • “Sounds like a rational and the most cost effective approach, the problem is what?”

      Oh so HFC is again (today anyway) a *** F A I L E D *** network, just as you told us years ago, but flip-flopped completely to suit the politics, when the masters decided to not only roll out FRAUDBAND but use the FAILED HFC… double whammy of dickheadedness™ (you read it right) right there.

      GOLD…

      I await tomorrow’s inevitable imbecilic flip-flop to coincide with tomorrow’s inevitable NBN™ fuck up.

      You’re welcome

      • It’s sad to see a human being so captured by a political party, like Reality, that he still loves them with all his heart, even though they keep throwing him under a bus….

    • So devoid you don’t believe some can get connected to FTTP FTTN FTTB and HFC in the same street.

        • “highly unlikely”

          Actually it is very likely…in fact it will most likely happen on the street that I live on. A third of the premises are apartment buildings with no current HFC, and the rest are free standing homes that have HFC. The next block over has no units and no HFC.
          My guess is that we will have FTTN, HFC, and FTTB across these 2 blocks…

          • “My guess is that they will have FTTB and HFC”

            Which is basically an overbuild of FTTN in HFC areas…FTTB is a form of FTTN.

          • No it isn’t because multiple apartment complexes never had HFC in the first place, FTTB as in the correct infrastructure model that the current NBN Co is using is entirely suitable for that purpose.

            More cost effective and faster to deploy than normal residential FTTN, FTTP or HFC.

          • Wrong again devoid some mud have HFC. Some might only have acouple of units hooked some might have all.

          • @Jason K

            Yep, it was basically up to the body corp as to whether they got hooked up or not, some did and some didn’t, so there is already a dogs breakfast mix for them

          • It was also up to Telstra and Optus, in the majority of cases Telstra or Optus cable was just not available for multi apartment dwellings and still is not.

          • It was also up to Telstra and Optus, in the majority of cases Telstra or Optus cable was just not available for multi apartment dwellings and still is not.

            Nope. It was totally up to the body corp to give them access to the site, which was the same issue they had/have with the FttB and TPG currently.

    • “I find it highly unlikely residences in the same street will have four different NBN fixed line infrastructures running down them.”

      If they’re overbuilding HFC areas with FTTN, they could feasibly have 2 at the least.

      What it means though, is not that a single premises will have access to 4 different technologies, it means that suburbs, and sometimes different premises in a single street, could feasibly all be served by different infrastructure.

      One could be on FTTP from the previous build, another on HFC, another in the street on FTTN from an HFC overbuild and then at the end of the street could feasibly be a property on fixed wireless, all in the same street.

      That is what it means. Though, reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, you’ve shown many times over.

      • When I visited Taiwan, I found a certain intersection where I could see four different 7-11 convenience stores from the same spot. Taiwanese people love convenience, and Australians love supporting multiple forms of telecommunications.

      • R0,

        One could be on FTTP from the previous build, another on HFC

        So in a NBN FTTP rollout why would only one house be connected in a street and the rest are on NBN HFC, they ran out of fibre from the truck roll and said let’s stop at one house and never come back?

        LOL

        • Streets do run through different neighbourhoods.
          My street will have FTTN in my neighbourhood while further down the road they already have fixed wireless and many will still have ADSL while some will rely on dialup while waiting to have access to satellite.

          • Yes got that mix , I was referring to the example where one residence of a street has FTTP and the rest have ‘other’.

          • Reality, Gavin literally just gave you a scenario where it could happen. When streets span neighbourhoods (aka areas for rolling out the NBN. One area could have been part of a FTTP build area pre-LNP and the continuation of the street wasn’t).

            Is critical thought too difficult for you? Plenty of examples where one house in a street has FTTP, because its on the corner of two streets, is that house “not on that street”?

            Here is an example:

            House 1 – 3 has FTTP from previous build in another neighbourhood. Street continues into another neighbourhood, but is still the same street, House 4-6 has HFC, House 5-7 have corroded HFC and will cost too much to rebuild the HFC so they connect those houses to the local FTTN build, then we have a large MDU between “houses” 7 and 10, they receive FTTB and finally a house down the road in a semi-rural section of the town, too far for FTTN to reach (lets call it house 20) so, they get Fixed Wireless.

            There you go, 5 different technologies in one street.

          • We could create hypothetical scenarios of a street ‘could have’ all day and night, the point is the overwhelming majority of streets will have one or two NBN infrastructure types, those that may have more than two would be so much in the minority that as a percentage of the whole statistic it would have no significance whatever.

            I understand the attempt to try and beat it up as if it is significant, where any utterance from a NBN Co spokesperson must be met with howling criticism, even if you have to exaggerate it ten fold to try and create a ‘problem’ that doesn’t exist in the first place.

          • The original LPA plan was for a third of the rollout to be HFC, it’s more likely the issue will be bigger than “insignificant” but smaller than “substantial” I expect.

          • Including “FAILED (your word) HFC, mixed with FRAUDBAND?

            Who needs to MTM bash when the gov. have you alain (oh and themselves too of course).

            Not to mention actuality… seeing how completely fucked MTM actually is…

            You’re welcome

          • “We could create hypothetical scenarios of a street ‘could have’ all day and night, the point is the overwhelming majority of streets will have one or two NBN infrastructure types”

            Sure, and I even said that in my first post.

            The fact is, you claim it to be impossible for one street to have more than 1 or 2 types of infrastructure servicing it, while the vast majority will have only 1 or 2 types, it is possible for a street to have more.

            I agree though that most wont be choosing between FTTP/FTTN/HFC/Wireless, there could be some properties that ~can~.

            If a bundle of copper wires is tied into a node, which happen to connect to a house that already got FTTP previously but was also in an HFC rollout area with HFC in their street, they could feasibly have access to NBN FTTP, Telstra/Optus HFC (which will be NBN HFC) and also FTTN over their copper line still in the ground.

            You can once again claim it is just a hypothetical, but so was the original portion of the article you quoted, it was a hypothetical.

          • The overwhelming majority of residences targeted for NBN HFC will still get HFC, those that were targeted for HFC extended in pockets of HFC suburbs of which some or all might now get FTTN is not a issue of any significance.

          • Reality, I’m not disputing that at all. Please learn how to read. I am disputing your statements that it’s impossible for premises in one street to be feasibly serviced by up to 4 different technologies.

            Do try to keep up.

          • @ alain

            “The overwhelming majority of residences targeted for NBN HFC will still get HFC…”

            “FAILED HFC (your description)”.

            There fixed that for you.

            You’re welcome

    • The problem is lack of simplicity will come back and bite you at an operational level.

      Less delivery types for an area mean reduced variety of spares people need to keep on hand, less delivery types local engineers need to be trained on & a simpler design of the overall network. All of these things matter over the longer term.

      Overall I agree with FTTB & FTTN as a delivery method. They are reasonably simple methods of getting services to an end users home. Along with that is the fact the copper network is pretty much already in place – no overbuild required.

      This comment on HFC is why I don’t like it as a delivery method. It already has a patchy delivery. What is the point of having to finish a network when there are better options available? (given your need to build ‘something’)

      • This… This is what I am seeing.

        You have a problem, you advise you are on HFC, guy turns up to fix it with tools for FTTn…

        Sigh…

        • So does that happen a lot now, does the Telstra HFC (BigPond Cable) tech turn up when you actually have a problem with ADSL2+?

          • Clearly you have never dealt with Telstra.

            There is a reason I have removed them from my life as much as humanly possible. They still manage to screw shit up even then because they still own the last mile.

          • Clearly you have never dealt with Telstra.

            I used to loathe calling them, but Thoday worked wonders in the service area, they’re actually helpful and stuff now :o)

          • Too late for me, I was in the process of removing them from my life when Thoday came in.

          • A minor point it was Thodey, it is now Andrew Penn.

            Yep, and under Mr Penn the networks fallen over twice now…

        • You have a problem, you advise you are on HFC, guy turns up to fix it with tools for FTTn…

          There’s a whole lot of other issues that don’t really get raised too. One, for example, would be the field staff will need to be multi-skilled, which will make them more expensive, need more training and actually harder to get.

          • Yup….

            Or they will be silo’d service areas. One group handles HFC another FTTN etc, and never shall they mix.

            Either way you pay for more staff, or you pay more for better staff. Higher Operating costs, here we come.

          • Total beat up, today we have PSTN, exchange based ADSL2 with multiple vendor DSLAMS, fixed wireless, Optus and Telstra HFC, greenfields and brownfields FTTP, FTTB, 3G/4G tower and link maintenance, backhaul maintenance etc etc etc.

            Adding the FTTN product (fibre/copper) to the technical support mix is of no consequence.

          • Lol devoid consider the SR of MTM at $41B and FTTP at $71B had added the figures of the SR opex to those figures 2027 the MTM would equal FTTP.

          • What’s that got to do with tech support across infrastructure types Rizz?

            Nothing, you needed to go off topic.

          • Adding the FTTN product (fibre/copper) to the technical support mix is of no consequence.

            The more the merrier, eh?

          • Not normally through the same provider.

            The HFC networks were run by Telstra/Optus and no one else could use them.

            Everyone else was almost exclusively DSL or wireless. The few variations weren’t large enough to be anything other than exceptions.
            And even then you usually had a shitfight if the problem was in a section not controlled by your ISP. For example it took 3 tries for Telstra’s sub contractor to get to my house when I was getting a new service put in place. Despite the address having been provided correctly, and then confirmed after the first error, twice they went to an entirely different suburb.

          • Yes I know what you mean about Telstra, I was talking to their call centre yesterday on what I thought was a minor matter.

            I have had root canal surgery that was easier!

            :)

          • I have had root canal surgery that was easier!

            Did they put you under a general for the root canal? You not talking/arguing with them probably sped things up considerably :o)

          • Lol TM…

            I’m guessing those rotten teeth were all rotten Labor and rotten Quigley’s fault too ;)

    • He did say 4 different types of mechanisms…were does he say they are all landline? I could see the possibility of 5, FTTN, FTTdp, FTTB, FW plus sat in some “edge of suburbia” streets…At the end of the day, this goes to show that HFC was a daft option, almost as daft as FTTN, but not quite that desperately stupid.

    • On the adjoinging street corner HFC exists and can be used, but it doesn’t run down a particular street. So 3/4 houses near the corner get HFC. FTTN, not HFC, is used to extend down the street, as per the article. It’s a long street, maybe 1-2 km, with old copper, so FTTN gets too unreliable before the end. Fixed wireless makes up the rest. Any premises can choose to pay for their connection to be FTTP. If one house near the end does this, the whole street has fibre, but uses a selection of 4 methodologies.

  6. As if this clusterfuck couldn’t be any more fucked. Unbelievable. I can understand why they don’t want to use any more HFC than they have to though. Of course none of this would be an issue with a proper FttP rollout, could have save themselves all this trouble had they listened to the experts rather than the agenda driven political nutjobs.

  7. They effectively mean that in some suburbs of Australia, different premises sometimes in the same street will have four different mechanisms for connecting to the NBN.

    Absolute insanity, Charlie Foxtrot barely covers it!!!

  8. I’m starting to feel sorry for the Network Engineers at nbn co. Now how much did the taxpayer cough up for the H.F.C. that’s about to be overbuilt with FTTN and is a refund available? – Gotta laugh at the continued idiocy, I only hope the electorate remembers come July

    • It’s not going to be overbuilt. They’re deploying FTTN down streets where they thought they *might* deploy HFC. Overbuilding would be deploying FTTN down streets HFC already exists.

      Renai is doing this often – slightly misrepresenting what is said or what the facts are, so it sounds truthful, but also creating controversy where it isn’t, so he can then write a story about it.

      • They have already stated that they are considering overbuilding parts of the Optus HFC as it just isn’t up to snuff. So, no, Renai isn’t misrepresenting.

        • Key word is ‘considering’, the NBN Co has made no decision if this is needed or not and at what scale.

          • Yes, but Mr. Shark is the one claiming that Renai is misrepresenting, which is blatantly untrue.

            It would be true had NBN Co decided exactly what they are doing, until they do so, it is perfectly fine for Renai to report that they are overbuilding some HFC areas with FTTN, as far as we know currently, they will be. Until they announce they aren’t, its Schrodinger rollout. They are simultaneously rolling out FTTN and not rolling out FTTN.

          • Considering, might, estimation…

            The magic words for the childish.

            Just ignore the 99.9% intent of anything you disagree with and hone in on one word, to suit.

            GOLD.

            You’re welcome

          • R0nin,

            to report that they are overbuilding some HFC areas with FTTN, as far as we know currently, they will be.

            We don’t know that at all.

          • “We don’t know that at all.”

            You’re right, I chose my words poorly and as usual, you play semantics.

            But I did explain my point after that, but you as usual, ignore anything in a comment that explains what someone means and nitpick single sentences.

            They are simultaneously rolling out FTTN over HFC and not, until such time as they state one way or the other what area is getting what.

            There’s an old saying, hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Assuming they are overbuilding HFC with FTTN is preparing for the worst, and hoping they don’t. Since they do not give really any details about their plans outside the flimsy rollout maps a few months before an area is ready. Transparency hey?

        • “Originally we thought, no problem, we’ll probably just pull coaxial down those overlooked streets and continue with the HFC build that was there, but we find that there are better economics in using technologies like FttN and/or potentially even some fixed-wireless applications,” Morrow reportedly said.

          Seems a bit more than just “considering”.

  9. And They’re coming to take me away Ha Ha
    They’re coming to take me away ho ho he he ha ha
    to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time, and I’ll be happy to see those nice young men in their NBN trucks

    (Apologies to Napoleon XIV)

  10. Does Mitch were a big red nose and the rest of the clown make-up to senate select committees?

    Do these guys do children’s parties? I’m guessing they’d be pretty expensive…

  11. Fixed wireless is an option in HFC areas??? WTF??? I really feel sorry for those poor souls.

    • It’s not an outcome you’d expect from an expenditure of around $50 billion and counting. HFC areas had the densest populations by definition and the whole business case for installing HFC there in the 1990s was based on being the urbanest of urban. Now you might get wireless. This is a scandal when the rollout starts in 2016 and goes for several years.

  12. There’s yet another broadband delivery method you’re forgetting. NBN will stack up piles of cash, set them on fire, and use a damp blanket to transmit data. Can’t be a less efficient use of money than the current mess.

  13. And still those of us stuck in “regional” zones have access to stupidy expensive off-net plans still continue to wait for NBN of any sort. Why the f*ck when you are advertising a full national upgrade do you start in the areas that need it the least.
    Btw i am smack bang in between newcastle and maitland right on the end of the M1 suburbs either side have dslams from every major isp and ours has……. Tel$tra and thats it.

    • Indeed Adam.

      Sad part, you probably would have had FTTP by now.

      I’m the same, I would have had FTTP well and truly by now but, no FRAUDBAND for me…

      So much for quicker eh?

      • Sad part, you probably would have had FTTP by now.

        Sad part with a FTTP rollout that was at 50% of original estimates at the end, probably not.

        I’m the same, I would have had FTTP well and truly by now

        See above.

          • What’s that got to with the discussion on FTTP? oh I see nothing, you need to divert the subject matter.

            Rizz would be proud of you. lol

          • Wow devoid first you claim labor FTTP was 50% below there estimates and when I asked you what is the % MTM below there pre election policy apparently it’s a divert from the subject matter.

            So a target of complete be 2016 from the pre election policy.
            To a missed 55%+ of the original estimates from the Stragic review for 2016
            To now the CP16 and a missed or more than 75% of the original estimates.

          • Jason, don’t bother, Reality is unable to see his own hypocrisy.

            While those of us actually critical of Labors rollout will happily admit their rollout was far from adequate, apparently promising 25Mbit to all by the end of 2016 and then “revising the targets down” isn’t at all the same as Laboer revising their targets down. Because reasons.

        • Prove I wouldn’t have had FTTP!

          Oh you can’t can you…

          But I DON’T have FTTN.

          Your conjecture, childish ignorance and baseless BS vs. my actuals, as usual.

          You’re welcome

          • But I DON’T have FTTN.

            Indeed Rizz, that is true. I don’t have FttN either (I also would have had FttP by now) The promise was 25mbps for everyone by the end of 2016. With only 283 days to go I have my doubts GimpCo can achieve this…

          • Devoid it’s just not fair we where told most Australians would be getting better broadband by now and for only $29B

          • Devoid can you link the winning election policy that you claimed used HFC when it used 0% of it wasn’t it supposed to be 25Mbps for all by the end of this year

    • I live in a regional area very close to you, in a similar situation being off-net, no ports available and suffering congestion. I’ve gone from FTTP late last year to FTTN fuck knows when. So I sympathise greatly but I don’t share your view we should have been done first or given priority.

      Why don’t I think we should have been done first? Because politicians are involved. I wish the rollout had started in Sydney and Melbourne and the the other capital cities first, where the easiest installs and highest profit customers are. That would have meant NBN would have passed a lot more properties with fibre at the time of the last election, been making a lot more money, and made it difficult for the luddite, sorry Liberal party to go with copper magic.

      Often when I share this view I make people very angry telling my area deserved to be done first because it is so poorly serviced. Well, yes, in an altruistic sense we probably did deserve to be done first. However doing the “right” thing, being all selfless, has resulted in only 20% of the population getting FTTP. I’d much rather have waited knowing I was still going to get fibre along with everyone else, than us all getting FTTN or God knows what.

      • Your statement has merit. Build up areas of high value first and gain capital for contunued roll out. But, there is more than one crew rolling out. I am not saying my area specifically should be first but if nbn is rolled out to any off-net area there would be almost all users switch and any that have been hanging for ports added. My biggest issue is that they are replacing areas that already have existing high speed and would not get anywhere near the amount of customers switching. No real cost difference & no real speed difference = why bother (until they turn off the pstn). If its capital they are going for then head out to off-net customers where the instant it is available customers will switch for cheaper & faster every time.

        O btw… where do the polies live? Thats right in the areas that are getting done fist… just sayin.

      • What they should have done is start rolling out Melbourne and Perth first, then Sydney and Brisbane would have gotten jealous and demanded the same treatment ;-)

        But seriously, I tend to agree. If they had of targeted the inner city suburbs and given a serious taste of the capability to the voting public, it would have been harder to turn on its head.

        • I don’t think the inner suburbs as a whole are complaining too much about their BB choices ,with most able to access Optus and BigPond cable and multiple choice of three 4G suppliers and multiple ISP ADSL2+ DSLAM’s in their exchange.

          I hot spotted my 4Gx phone on the last Telstra free data day and it left my ADSL2+ connection for dead, another free day coming up. :)

          Those connecting to fast BB for the first time via fixed wireless and satellite in regional and rural areas think it’s great, so targeting where it is needed most is the correct way to do it.

          • Rizz,

            What has any of that got to do with what I said? nothing, you needed to divert off topic.

          • @Reaility, its a good thing Rizz wasn’t replying to you.

            Oh, right, you’re claiming sock puppetry again, and claiming Jason is Rizz. Please show your evidence of sock puppetry.

          • Lol devoid
            “so targeting where it is needed most is the correct way to do it”

            So you didn’t say that in the comment above. The delusion of devoid in full swing today and not even lunch time

          • It’s not a do one or the other situation, the outsourced contracting crews rolling out fixed wireless or providing on ground satellite support are not being slowed up by what’s happening in Canberra in your link.

            lol

          • Devoid sorry your OT deluding again. Has nothing to do with your comment of “so targeting where it is needed most is the correct way to do it.”

          • Well lucky Telstra’s service is getting so bad that you keep getting free days…. *Facepalm*

            My point being that at the moment the people who might make most advantage of the performance of fttp, are not necessarily the ones who currently have access. This comes back to that whole 100/40 and above bit. The sort of users who will initially go for that will be the SOHO and high end users. Those who have disposable income, or can tie it in as a business expense. They tend to be in the CBD/inner city type regions. Indeed, in my younger days when I lived inner city, I would have happily paid for the faster speed.

  14. Once again you have to laugh at the desperate need from the MtM bashers to exaggerate the situation, and the need to beat it up to insinuate all HFC areas will be overbuilt with FTTN.

    First all the intention was to extend the HFC into those few small inner urban residential pockets that missed out when the original Telstra and Optus HFC rollout stopped, now the NBN Co considers it may be more cost effective to fill those pockets with FTTN, no big deal, we are not talking vast numbers of residences anyway.

    The desperate need on the part of ‘Back to 2013’ supporters to look for excuses to carpet bomb everywhere with FTTP is at least consistent, but with the prospect of the alternative Labor NBN policy following a similar NBN model to the current the poor old Back to 2013 FTTP supporters don’t have much to hang on to anymore, except to bash and beat up each and every NBN Co announcement no matter what it says.

    • You idiot LibTroll’s are quite happy being left behind aren’t you?

      Personally I’ll take advice from a company that understands the internet, not some hypocritical partisan troll like you

      Internet giant Google has sought to dispel what is says is a “myth” that consumers don’t want, won’t pay for or don’t need high-speed, gigabit broadband.

      http://m.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/build-gigabit-broadband-and-they-will-come-google-fibre-boss-20131022-hv26t.html

      • It’s time for a off topic diversion I see, so go ahead invite Google to Australia, I am sure the Coalition will welcome them with open arms.

        Just don’t tell them they will have to let all RSP’s use their gigabit infrastructure at wholesale pricing set by the ACCC.

        You also need to convince the overwhelming majority of existing FTTP users to get off 12/1 and 25/5 plans, and stop customers moving off 100/40 plans.

        • Alain, I have said many times that I dont agree with the following from the ALP time at the helm of NBN Co:

          1/ CVC pricing
          2/ Number of POI’s
          3/ structure of the speed tiers (should be symmetrical and start at 50/50 Mbps+ )

          sort these out and you’ll see consumers adopt fast speed tiers in droves!

          next!

          • At $10 more per month for the same quota you would not think that 100/40 plans were prohibitive, the simple fact is the majority of residences are happy with 12/1 and 25/5 FTTP, and increasingly so.

          • 25/5?

            We don’t need such speeds do we?

            So you said before.

            But that was “many alain contradictions ago” eh?

            You’re welcome

          • Reality:

            Internode 12Mbit $49.95 (50Gb) 100Mbit $74.95 (50Gb) difference, $25.

            iiNet 12Mbit $59.90 (100Gb + 100Gb) 100Mbit $109.99 (1000Gb) difference, $50.

            Belong 12Mbit $45.00 (100Gb) 100Mbit $70.00 (100Gb) difference, $25.

            Exetel 12Mbit $39.00 (100Gb) 100Mbit $69.00 (100Gb) difference, $30.

            So, $10 difference you say? 4 ISPs with pretty similar looking differences, save for iiNet because they don’t offer a small plan for their 100Mbit option, but they do for 12Mbit because offering small plans on 100Mbit is ridiculous.

            So, average for the 4 ISPs in total, $32.50 difference.

            Average for the 3 ISPs that have same quota but different speeds, $26.66 difference.

            So, no, it isn’t just $10 a month for users to choose 100Mbit.

          • At $10 more per month for the same quota you would not think that 100/40 plans were prohibitive

            iiNet it’s $60, Telstra is $80and even on a budget RSP it’s $60 difference.

            What colour is the sky on the planet where you live?

          • Alain, that’s a textbook example of cherry-picking the result set (the texas sharpshooter fallacy to be exact). Do you also use this sort of lie on climate change blogs?
            Seriously you have demonstrated a complete lack of a moral and ethical base when arguing your position (not an ad hominem, your posting record is damning evidence for this).

          • “iiNet 12/1 $59.90
            Exetel 100/40 $69.90

            Looks like a $10 difference to me.”

            Right, so people who want to use iiNet but can’t afford their 100Mbit option, should switch to a budget ISP who uses terrible business practices to get 100Mbit for just $10 a month more…. You’re a moron.

          • Stephen,

            Oh so it’s ok to cherry pick the result when you don’t what to show a $10 difference, then when I point out a example of a $10 difference across the two speed tiers under discussion you decide to get on the pedestal and preach the BS moral high ground.

            Classic.

          • Reality, how is it cherry picking to show its not a $10 difference?

            MOST people don’t chop and change ISPs going from premium providers to budget basement providers.

            Most people get one ISP the first time they get the internet, and stick with it, be it because of brand loyalty, or locked into multi-year contracts (like what Telstra does). So, people don’t generally change ISPs, so to say that its only a $10 difference, if you go and change ISP from iiNet (A premium RSP) to Exetel (a budget RSP) and then also have to deal with being with an RSP known for intentionally high contention ratios to get their price down (so contended that you’d be lucky to even see 50Mbit let alone the 100Mbit you’re paying for).

            Right, you just care about what the plan you’re on says you get, and not what the actual throughput is….

            You should definitely sign up with Exetel then when you get the NBN, you’ll have a great time laughing at all the morons paying $100 a month for 100Mbit when you’re sitting there with your “100Mbit” plan for $40 less a month!

          • R0ninX3ph,

            You don’t get to choose how the comparison has to work because you want to stack the outcome, but let’s use another ISP that’s not Exetel from your list anyway.

            Belong 100Mbit $70.00

            iiNet 12Mbit $59.90

            Still $10.

            On standby for ‘oh but but you can’t use Belong because I don’t like them’ tap dance BS.

            and of course rounded out by the standard MtM basher personal attack when backed into a corner.

          • Reality, once again you don’t read anything I wrote. Thats cool.

            I’m used to the fact you read about 2 lines then go off and comment based solely on that. Its just tiresome.

            But, if someone does change from iiNet to Belong, they are losing 100GB of data a month, going from 100GB Peak and 100GB Off-Peak to 100GB total, that seems ill-advised if you’re upgrading from 12/1 to 100/40. (But lets not open the data cap can of worms, because data caps are ridiculous in the first place. Given that speed and contention ratios affect how much data a customer can pull through in a month and not really their cap in any meaningful way)

          • Reality’s standard line when he doesn’t like the debate is to accuse others of personal attack or going OT.

          • R0ninX3ph,

            I bet you are glad you got those plastic goal posts you can move around all the time, time to move them again.

            Here is another example, up and coming NBN ISP that seems to get good reviews in Whirlpool, as in the next Internode as it was before takeovers.

            SkyMesh 100/40 30GB/60GB off peak $59.95

            SkyMesh 25/10 30GB/60GB off peak $49.95

            Yep, still a $10 difference.

          • “SkyMesh 100/40 30GB/60GB off peak $59.95

            SkyMesh 25/10 30GB/60GB off peak $49.95

            Yep, still a $10 difference.”

            You accuse me of moving goal posts? When I was specifically comparing 12/1 to 100/40 and you now compare 25/5 and 100/40? Cool story bro.

            I’m not surprised the difference in price between 25/5 and 100/40 is closer than the difference in price between the lowest speed tier and the highest.

            Are you shocked at that revelation?

          • So you could “prove” your point, you had to use the 25/5 from Skymesh to show how it is only a $10 difference between it and 100/40.

            Because had you used the same data points I provided above, comparing 12/1 and 100/40, you’d have been wrong.

            SkyMesh 100/40 30GB/60GB off peak $59.95

            SkyMesh 12/1 30GB/60GB off peak $39.95

            Wow, look at that, same data points as I used above, and its NOT a $10 difference. Its $20. Which is the same across their 12/1 and 100/40 products. All their 100/40 products are $20 more than their 12/1 products, but the 100/40 products end up with more offpeak data eventually, instead of 1TB offpeak, they end up with 12TB.

            Who’s moving goal posts now Reality?

          • @Reality

            If you want to compare apples to oranges, that’s your choice….you’re still wrong, regardless.

          • I provided three examples of $10 differences between lower speed tier plans and the high speed tier 100/40 plan, I could no doubt find more, the frenzied tap dancing routine in response is at least entertaining.

          • “I provided three examples of $10 differences between lower speed tier plans and the high speed tier 100/40 plan, I could no doubt find more, the frenzied tap dancing routine in response is at least entertaining.”

            Two of which are between different ISPs completely, and the third of which was not even the same data set being compared above 25/5 to 100/40 and not 12/1 to 100/40.

            And you say we’re tap dancing?

            You do love comparing apples and oranges Reality. Do you actually think you’re going to convince anyone with this rubbish? You will have other LibTrolls patting you on the back for your service to the “cause” and then anyone who doesn’t buy into the LNP Kool-aid seeing your arguments for exactly what they are, smoke and mirrors to avoid the discussion.

          • The importance of comparing plans within the bounds of the same ISP, is that all ISPs run different backhaul.

            Every ISP sources its backhaul through different means, meaning different pricing. They also all contend their connections differently and contention ratios aren’t published to the public to be able to compare the quality of service one will get with each ISP, thus, when comparing price of plans, you can only compare between the lower tiers of one ISP and their upper tiers, because that is the only way you can ensure customers will have an equal service.

            Discussing Exetels price of 100/40 being $10 more than iiNet’s 12/1 is discussing price alone, but that isn’t the only factor when it comes to an internet service, but you know this.

            Exetel are known for being a budget ISP, thus they contend their network far more than what premium ISPs do, you get a better service over a premium ISP than you do with budget ISPs.

            Hence why Exetels 12/1 is $39 but iiNet’s 12/1 is $59.90, because you are paying a premium for a better quality service both in terms of the actual connection you are paying for, as well as customer service.

        • It’s time for a off topic diversion I see, so go ahead invite Google to Australia, I am sure the Coalition will welcome them with open arms.

          You obviously didn’t even read the article, because that isn’t what it was about.

          • You’re seriously losing the plot buddy…

            How do you infer “Invite Google to Australia” from “Internet giant Google has sought to dispel”?

      • Interesting article (expect Reality to spin it hard on how it doesn’t matter). I especially like this quote:

        “I can say with full confidence [it] simply isn’t true,” he said. “There is huge consumer demand… for faster internet and we believe that faster internet speeds will lead to what we call the next chapter of the internet.”

        At the rate nbn™ is going, the USA will finish the book while we’re still in the introduction, let alone the first chapter :/

        • So as a total of the whole of USA, how much does Google gigabit fibre actually cover?

          • You are Off Topic.

            What does that have to do with the article we were discussing?

          • At the rate nbn™ is going, the USA will finish the book while we’re still in the introduction….

            It has everything to do with it in reference to that comment by you.

            You not liking the question doesn’t make it OT.

          • LOL….

            Not really understanding again are you Reality.

            Google are not the USA. Google are not doing an NBN.

            The facetious point Tinman is making is that even with the piecemeal approach being taken in the US, they may well get everyone done before we in Australia do. Which is humorous in a horrible way, because the US have no NBN occurring, so for that to happen would suggest we are incredibly behind.

            Do you need anything else explained to you?

          • So as a total of the whole of USA, how much does Google gigabit fibre actually cover?

            Why would you just ask about Google? You know they aren’t the only company in the US doing fibre, right?

            According to the OECD, as of June last year, just over 10% of the US have fibre. Source: https://www.oecd.org/sti/broadband/oecdbroadbandportal.htm#Penetration

            They also say: there was a “13.7% jump in fibre subscriptions since June 2014.”

            But so what? They are still ahead of us.

          • Not sure where you got the just over 10% from.

            Penetration:
            Table1.10 Percentage of fibre connections in BB.

            Australia 6.4%
            USA 9.4%

            Also I wouldn’t describe the 3% difference as being in your words:

            At the rate nbn™ is going, the USA will finish the book while we’re still in the introduction, let alone the first chapter

          • Not sure where you got the just over 10% from.

            My bad, I just gauged it from the chart. The 0.6% difference doesn’t change my point.

            Considering our current roll out of FttP has stopped, how do you think we’ll catch up with them?

          • “Also I wouldn’t describe the 3% difference as being in your words:

            At the rate nbn™ is going, the USA will finish the book while we’re still in the introduction, let alone the first chapter”

            That was kind of the point. The USA does not have a unified plan for migrating the majority of its population to a higher degree of broadband.
            Australia does in the NBN, which has admitted that Fibre is the end game.
            Hence the amusing comment on the USA getting there first.

            Wow I can’t believe I am explaining that …. let alone having to do it twice….

    • @alain

      “now the NBN Co considers it may be more cost effective to fill those pockets with FTTN” — Any particular reason you chose to leave out fixed wireless in your reply?

      How does the plan look if they choose to put fixed wireless in instead? I cant think of any areas that would have HFC nearby, AND be so small that fixed wireless should be an option…

      • I agree HFC is in the high density inner urban suburbs of our capital cities, I can understand using FTTN to fill out HFC pockets as a alternative to extending HFC but using fixed wireless doesn’t seem feasible.

        The comment on fixed wireless is a bit vague anyway.

        and/or potentially even some fixed-wireless applications,” Morrow reportedly said.

        So is the description ‘reportedly said’, so did he or didn’t he say that?

        • I’m going with him saying it. Whether it was an off the cuff comment to cover his arse, or there was some substance behind it, we wont know until it either happens or doesnt, but there would be no reason to suggest he said it if there wasnt any merit in doing so.

          So its potentially an option, which screams disbelief. I’m more interested that you left it out, and are now fobbing it off that it may not be said, and hence irrelevant.

          When others have been so vague in the past, you’ve been all over them with whatever your view of the day was. Just more double standards.

        • I agree HFC is in the high density inner urban suburbs of our capital cities, I can understand using FTTN to fill out HFC pockets as a alternative to extending HFC

          Then why hysterically argue about it in your other posts?

          but using fixed wireless doesn’t seem feasible.

          There are whole area’s on the Gold Coast where, currently, FW is is their only choice. I’m not talking in the hinterland even, but right in the middle next to Bond Uni. Some areas around it have HFC, while others have ADSLx.

          Hopefully, the wireless folks will get some sort of upgrade (the current wireless is super slow), but with the current “cheaper is better” mantra nbn™ is currently operating under, I expect they’ll just upgrade the wireless…

    • “the need to beat it up to insinuate all HFC areas will be overbuilt with FTTN.”
      “now the NBN Co considers it may be more cost effective to fill those pockets with FTTN, no big deal, we are not talking vast numbers of residences anyway.”
      These two statements are at odds with each other. Assuming FTTN is being planned as a ‘fill-in’ measure, either 1) nbn is overbuilding itself with FTTN in the same areas that have HFC servicing premises currently and having two simultaneous technology types in the same area servicing premises semi-randomly, or 2) nbn is overbuilding itself with FTTN in the same areas that previous had HFC servicing premises and having all premises serviced by FTTN in the future.

    • Back to 2013 FTTP supporters don’t have much to hang on to anymore, except to bash and beat up each and every NBN Co announcement no matter what it says.

      Not true, I think the nbn™ (they don’t call themselves NBN Co any more Alain…you can’t even get that right) announcement of doing 300,000+ in Fttdp was a great idea!

      Also, the Skinny Fibre thing seems to have merit.

      You forget, we aren’t all like you and bash everything the “other team” come up with, unlike you we can acknowledge when they do something right :o)

  15. All of this ignores the fact we were promised FTTP by Labor.
    Even now fttn and its variants is a schmozzle under the LNP.
    Without doubt we would rather have FTTP.
    The mantra for the NBN should be, Do it Once and Do it Right.
    Vote Labor at the elections.

      • We’re too far down the MTM rabbit hole to change direction significantly without massive financial penalties. Labor will be restricted to (re)implementing FTTP to greenfields, completing FTTN rollouts in place (just like LNP had to let in-progress FTTP rollouts complete), and (fingers crossed) implementing FTTdp to brownsfields. FTTB will continue also. FIIK what will happen with HFC though :/ maybe FTTdp for infill with the intent to replace HFC at a later date?
        It will cost more, but there should at least be some possibility for FoD for those with FTTdp.
        I understand that some 10% of brownsfields premises require remediation of the copper, perhaps these would be changed to FTTP if FTTdp is found to not work.
        Still very complicated

  16. So reading between the lines, Connect to Cable NOW* if you live in a Cable serviced area! (seriously have to wonder why people wouldn’t already be connected if they had the option)
    Otherwise risk being dumped onto FttN or Fixed Wireless!

    * assuming that if you’re connected to cable, you’ll be at the top of the service list for NBN cable and if not, then you may well be farmed off to an alternate network.

  17. Max Bancroft 22/03/2016 at 8:28 am
    The mantra for the NBN should be, Do it Once and Do it Right.
    Vote Labor at the elections.
    I totally agree. HOW CAN PEOPLE IN POWER BE SO FN STUPID. now i will take the red pill.

    • The mantra for the NBN should be, Do it Once and Do it Right.

      That was the mantra from 2013, but actually I think it was originally from Tony Windsor in 2010, not Labor.

      We have no idea what the Labor 2016 mantra is, it could be ‘ Do it once and Do it Right with some fibre and HFC and FTTB and FTTN’ .

      :)

      • I believe it will be

        “Well we are trying to fix it, but they really screwed the pooch on this one”

  18. It’s all daft. I know personally on my street, number 131 has FTTP, number 133 has FTTN. Thankfully I’m on the FTTP side of that particular argument.

    • Don’t be silly, according to Reality, no street would have FTTP to some premises and something else to others. You must be mistaken. :-)

      • Hahahah.. indeed. Must be. Although, I bet, now that the fttn has gone RFS here, those people in 133 are happy that they’re not 3rd world citizens.

        • Of course they’re happy, according to the numpties at NBN PR, FTTN users are equally satisfied with their service as FTTP users are!

          I’m still trying to work out how big their sample size of people who have used both FTTN and FTTP within the bounds of the NBN rollout is….. But I am sure it must be in the thousands for their data to equivocally prove that satisfaction is identical between the two infrastructure types!

          • Well R0 considering its brought down FTTB one by 10Points got to wonder how happy they really are.

          • Of course they’re happy, they’re snorting pixie dust off the arses of unicorns. Who wouldn’t be happy?

          • NPS (net promoter score) isn’t used to rate “stuff”, it’s used to rate “people” (although service availability would also factor).

            So it’s from scenarios like “Yes, the tech fixed it quickly, and I’d recommend the company to my friends”.

            You’d never have a question on it like “Are you just as happy with your FttN as your FttP?” so it was just shear spin that they tried to show it as that way ;o)

          • “You’d never have a question on it like “Are you just as happy with your FttN as your FttP?” so it was just shear spin”

            Of course it was spin, was the point of my sarcasm filled post :-P

          • I would count my household as a ‘happy user’ of FTTN tech at this current time/date.

            I upgraded from ADSL2+ @13/1 to FTTB @ ~95/37 a few weeks back.
            Very quick and easy to migrate – modem replacement and maybe half an hour of a techs time wandering around the comms cabinet / my apartment.

            Some congestion at peak periods but not terrible – ~35/35 the only time I thought to check. I expect this to fluctuate a fair bit as more people migrate across and ISPs order more backhaul / CVC / whatever is required.

            The main difference between FTTB and FTTN would appear to be weather and distance related issues for FTTN that you should not experience with FTTB. Also with FTTB there is probably an FoD option for our body corporate in the future, should we chose to pursue that.

            The cons are not really a problem yet:
            – No option for additional services, with FTTP I can have 4 separate ISPs if desired.
            – No option for higher speeds (100/100 Skymesh for instance).
            What else am I missing?

          • While FTTB and FTTN might be similar, FTTB is far more akin to FTTdp than it is FTTN.

            So, to rate FTTN based on having FTTB in an MDU, is disingenuous.

          • lol , you don’t get to choose what category FTTB is in because you don’t like the in your face FTTN rollout figures.

            The fact is the way the current NBN Co is rolling out FTTB and using existing copper runs into multi dwelling units it is the most like FTTN.

          • So devoid the FTTN connected by mid February form leak docu of just 30K is really blistering fast

          • “lol , you don’t get to choose what category FTTB is in because you don’t like the in your face FTTN rollout figures.”

            You’re right, I don’t.

            The nature of the infrastructure does. FTTB is FTTdp. If it were FTTN, each MDU would have a refrigerated huge cabinet serving 400 premises in its “basement”.

            In fact, the FTTB rollouts use the exact same hardware , the mini-nodes, they will be rolling out in the FTTdp rollout they are starting in April, but no, of course, it must be FTTN because you say so.

            FTTN = up to 1.2Km of copper.

            FTTB = at most 50m of copper.

            FTTdp = at most 50m of copper.

            Gee….. I wonder which is more similar.

          • The fact is the way the current NBN Co is rolling out FTTB and using existing copper runs into multi dwelling units it is the most like FTTN.

            If it was FttN, they’d call it FttN you goose. But that’s not what they are rolling out to MDU’s, they are using FttB :o)

          • R0ninX3ph,

            You’re right, I don’t.
            ……

            The nature of the infrastructure does.

            What outcome are you after using the world wide unique patented ‘R0ninX3ph Classification of fixed line infrastructure’ ?

          • “What outcome are you after using the world wide unique patented ‘R0ninX3ph Classification of fixed line infrastructure’ ”

            Speaking of ad hominem.

            Anyway, I already explained it above. The hardware used in the FTTB rollout is the same hardware (the mini-nodes) they are using with the pilot FTTdp rollout.

            It isn’t the same hardware being used in the FTTN rollout.

            FTTB is a FTTdp solution, not FTTN.

            Deny it all you want, but you’re so used to comparing apples with oranges, I’m not sure you even know what is what anymore.

          • “you don’t get to choose what category FTTB is in because you don’t like the in your face FTTN rollout figures”
            It’s amusing that you’re so blind drunk stupid all the time you can’t even see the difference between FTTB and FTTN.

            Or your own hypocrisy. Standard practice though right…

            Carry on. Smiles heal.

          • But, even if we play your game Reality, and we say that FTTB and FTTN are the same, you still cannot compare the results of people stating that they are happy with FTTN, with the results of people stating they are happy with FTTP as if the data is the same.

            Its literally comparing apples and oranges, it would be like saying:

            Out of the people surveyed who only consume apples, they rate apples 7/10 in satisfaction.

            When compared with the people who only consume oranges, they rate oranges 7/10 in satisfaction.

            Thus, apples and oranges are equal in how they satisfy consumers.

            You cannot extrapolate from that data that oranges would satisfy the apple eaters to 7/10, and you cannot say from that data that apples would satisfy the orange eaters to 7/10.

          • umm yes, and your point is…?

            I thought it was obvious, but I’ll dumb it down for you:

            FttN is FttN
            FttB is FttB
            FttB is not FttN.

          • R0ninX3ph,

            FTTB is a FTTdp solution, not FTTN.

            I don’t care how you individually want to re classify it to make life easier for yourself and the like minded FTTP cheer squad, that’s not how the NBN Co report it (as FTTdp) in their audited reports, take it up with them.

          • “that’s not how the NBN Co report it (as FTTdp) in their audited reports, take it up with them.”

            Like I said before, you’re back to arguing semantics.

            I am talking about the TECHNOLOGY, not the nomenclature used to describe it at NBN Co.

            The TECHNOLOGY used in the FTTB rollout is NOT the same TECHNOLOGY used in FTTN, it is the same network design as the FTTdp network design has/will take.

            Please, stop playing with words. We are discussing the technological advantages of different rollout methods, we are not discussing the linguistic gymnastics you are performing to show that FTTB is somehow FTTN.

            If NBN Co lumped all fixed line outside of HFC in under one moniker of “Fibre Rollout” (AKA, combining all FTTP/FTTB/FTTdp/FTTN together) that doesn’t make FTTP, FTTB, FTTdp and FTTN the same, just because they list them in one group in their reports.

            The technology is fundamentally different. But you know this, continue with your semantic gymnastics.

  19. Guess NBN realised rolling HFC in some areas would take too long or because it was a complete failure. Seriously, how much longer is this going to go on for? NBN is an absolute mess right now with all the different technologies and changes. They’ve screwed themselves over.

  20. I already have two lots of FTTP, two lots of HFC, a few fixed wireless, and I’m in the satellite footprint, in my street. Three of those at least are already connected to my building (possibly four, I haven’t asked the new neighbors what they got). I’m expecting NBN to install a node right outside my home, and FTTDp across the road, just to complete the set.

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