news The NBN company’s new three-year rollout plan has revealed the company plans to overbuild TransACT’s long-established Fibre to the Node and HFC cable networks in Canberra, Mildura and Geelong with more Fibre to the Node cables, in a decision which appears to make no technical or commercial sense.
Yesterday the NBN company released its rollout plan for the next three years. The plan details which areas the company plans to target over the next three years with its Fibre to the Premises, HFC cable, Fibre to the Node, satellite and wireless infrastructure.
However, analysis conducted by Delimiter has revealed that the company plans to substantially overbuild a number of areas already well-served by precisely the kind of broadband infrastructure it is deploying.
For example, in the north side of inner Canberra, the NBN company plans to deploy Fibre to the Node to a number of suburbs such as Acton, Ainslie, Braddon, Campbell, Dickson, Downer, Hackett, Lyneham, O’Connor, Reid, Turner and Watson. Virtually all of those suburbs are already covered by the Fibre to the Node network owned by TransACT, a subsidiary of TPG. You can see TransACT’s network map in this PDF.
The TransACT FTTN network in Canberra already supports the VDSL2 broadband standard, which offers speeds up to 80Mbps down and 20Mbps up.
The NBN company is also planning to deploy FTTN throughout Canberra’s south, again, to several dozen suburbs which already have TransACT’s FTTN network active in those areas.
The NBN company has already purchased TransACT’s limited Fibre to the Premises network in Canberra, which only covered a small number of suburbs. In May 2014 the company said it was open to buying TransACT’s much larger FTTN network, which covers most of Canberra. However, the NBN company appears to have now decided to deploy its own infrastructure in direct competition with TransACT, instead of utilising the company’s existing infrastructure.
The result will be that Canberra will end up with two competing Fibre to the Node networks — one owned by the Federal Government, and one not. It is believed that the Canberra TransACT FTTN network is already open access on a wholesale basis to other ISPs, as the NBN network is. This means it is not clear what advantages the NBN FTTN network will bring residents in those areas of Canberra.
This situation mirrors the farcical situation throughout the late 1990’s where Telstra (owned by the Federal Government at that time) HFC cable trucks followed Optus HFC cable trucks down streets in Australia’s capital cities, as the Government (Telstra) precisely duplicated next-generation telecommunications infrastructure which the private sector (Optus) was rolling out.
The net result was that Optus ceased deploying its own HFC cable infrastructure or upgrading the network as it could not compete with the funding levels of the Government-backed Telstra juggernaut.
The NBN company is also substantially overbuilding existing high-speed broadband infrastructure in other areas. For example, the company is deploying its Fibre to the Node solution throughout about a dozen suburbs in Geelong, the majority of which are already covered by TransACT’s cable network, which offers customers speeds of up to 100Mbps. The company is also deploying Fibre to the Node infrastructure in Mildura, which also has access to TransACT’s 100Mbps HFC cable infrastructure.
TransACT’s HFC cable network in Mildura, Ballarat and Geelong was deployed by Neighbourhood Cable in the 1990’s and early 2000’s.
An even more ridiculous situation exists in Ballarat, where the NBN company has already comprehensively overbuilt the existing TransACT HFC cable infrastructure with an early Fibre to the Premises deployment.
In 2012, this led TransACT chief executve Ivan Slavich to slam the company for unnecessarily overbuilding high-speed broadband infrastructure. “While we welcome the NBN and acknowledge the need for affordable, ubiquitous broadband to regional communities, we are unsure why NBN Co has chosen to prioritise and roll out to areas that are already served by superfast networks,” he said at the time.
In 2012, Nationals MP Luke Hartsuyker agreed with Slavich and iiNet chief executive Michael Malone (iiNet, now part of the TPG group, bought TransACT), saying the NBN was needlessly duplicating high-speed internet services in Ballarat and Geelong while other regional communities would wait up to a decade for improved broadband services.
Nonsensically, there are a number of areas in all four cities — such as the suburb of Cook in Canberra — which do not have access to high-speed services through TransACT. However, the NBN company appears to have completely ignored many such suburbs, preferring instead to focus on overbuilding TransACT’s existing network.
The massive overbuilding effort is mirrored in a number of metropolitan areas, where private sector telcos such as OPENetworks have complained that the NBN company is deploying its own fibre solutions in direct competition with their existing, fibre-based networks, which are already open to wholesale access for retail telcos.
In one example, the NBN company is deploying its own competitive infrastructure to a housing estate in Sydney which Malcolm Turnbull specifically used during the 2013 Federal Election to highlight the strengths of his chosen Fibre to the Node technology — because OPENetworks had deployed a Fibre to the Node solution in the area.
In another example, iTnews news editor Allie Coyne has detailed a case where TPG, the NBN company and OPENetworks all have fibre infrastructure in the Sydney apartment block she lives in — with the NBN company appearing to prioritise that block over other locations which don’t have high-speed broadband services at all.
Yesterday Delimiter asked the NBN company to comment on why it was overbuilding TransACT’s existing high-speed broadband networks, instead of seeking to acquire and integrate them, as it has done with other network infrastructure. The company issued the following statement:
“The numbers in the latest rollout plan for Geelong, Mildura and Canberra do not reflect the entire premises count for these cities. NBN is using existing infrastructure where possible and where it makes sense to do so. There are a variety of existing networks around Australia, but not all of them make commercial or technical sense to integrate into the NBN network.”
“NBN has headline deals in place with Telstra and Optus, of course, but in other areas the company will continue to discuss options with infrastructure owners.”
opinion/analysis
What an absolute fucking joke.
I live in a suburb of Canberra which already has high-speed broadband services via TransACT FTTN. I am personally getting a 65Mbps broadband connection right now. This is the fortunate situation which huge numbers of people who live in a house in inner Canberra are lucky enough to find themselves in, because of the existing FTTN network which TransACT deployed many years ago. It performs very well — much better than the ADSL broadband most Australians in other cities have access to, if not as well as FTTP would.
However, the NBN company is planning to overbuild my suburb with FTTN. This will mean that over the next few years, I will have access to two FTTN networks to my house. That’s nice, but I don’t really care — it’s not like I am lacking for broadband right now, and there is no real reason for me to spend a month changing to a different FTTN network. Why would I bother, if the services and prices are roughly equivalent? And both networks are open access, so I have a choice of ISPs.
Meanwhile, I was told today about a resident of the ACT suburb of Cook — just a couple of suburbs away from where I live. This suburb does not have TransACT FTTN and is not even on the NBN company’s rollout map. This resident’s father is getting broadband speeds of 300kbps. He has no idea when this will change. The only way he is likely to improve this situation over the next three years is to use 4G mobile broadband (with tiny download limits) or just move a kilometre away to the neighbouring suburb.
The NBN company completely overbuilt the 100Mbps HFC cable network in Ballarat. It is now conducting overbuilding exercises relating to other cities throughout Victoria and in Canberra. It is also overbuilding FTTB and FTTN infrastructure in apartment blocks throughout Sydney and Melbourne.
In response, can I just say this very loud and very clear: What the actual fuck is the NBN company thinking?
Why the bloody hell is it overbuilding areas where high-speed broadband already exists? Why isn’t it focusing instead on area which are poorly served by broadband? Why is a Government-owned company trying so desperately to compete with successful private sector businesses? TransACT is one of the very few broadband companies in Australia to have deployed its own last-mile broadband infrastructure. Why is the Government trying to kill it off?
I’ve seen a lot of crazy things in my past decade as a technology journalist in Australia, and even more in my time as a political advisor. But this has to be one of the most nutbag things ever. The NBN company needs to get a team of psychologists into its planning department as soon as possible. Because what the company is doing right now is absolute insane nonsense.
One caveat is that it is entirely possible that TPG — which now owns TransACT — is unwilling to sell its FTTN/HFC cable networks to the NBN company. This is completely understandable as a commercial decision. However, the NBN company should still be targeting underserved areas first.
I believe that at least TransACT’s FTTN network in Canberra is already wholesale open access — just like the NBN company is. So other ISPs can come in and use that infrastructure already. Just like the NBN’s planned FTTN. All this means that those in the TransACT footprint are already well-served — the NBN company can come back to them later.
Read my lips, NBN Co: You are owned by the Government. You should be focusing on broadband blackspots first and not deploying high-speed broadband to wealthy inner city white collar residents who already have all the bandwidth they can use. To do anything else is to further entrench the digital divide that is already keeping so many Australians in the Internet dark ages.
Got that?
At the very, very least, if the NBN company did want to overbuild TransACT’s FTTN and HFC cable networks, it should be doing so with a technology better than what customers already have had access to for much of the past decade — perhaps FTTP, instead of FTTN or HFC cable. That might actually make more sense. You know — upgrading, not duplicating.
And one last thing … what the hell is happening with South Brisbane, the suburb where Telstra has already deployed FTTP? The NBN company and Telstra have been in negotiations now for many years about the NBN company buying the FTTP infrastructure. Yet that seems to have gone absolutely nowhere at all. Is the NBN company planning to overbuild South Brisbane’s FTTP with its own FTTP as well? Nothing would surprise me at this point. Nothing at all.
Image credit: Back the Future movie promotional image
They’ll overbuild the south Brisbane FTTP with FTTN, cause that’s how they roll.
Nothing would surprise me at this point. Nothing.
Ha! you bet me to it.
“Read my lips, NBN Co: You are owned by the Government. You should be focusing on broadband blackspots first and not deploying high-speed broadband to wealthy inner city white collar residents who already have all the bandwidth they can use”
Well said Renai, well said.
While around my area light industrial suburbs are on 1.5mbps trying to run a business.
Fkn joke nbn, go home, you’re drunk!
At least if they were drunk it might help explain what the hell they are thinking.
Why don’t we ask our illustrious Prime Minister? After all, he is the architect of this pig’s breakfast, but perhaps he’s too busy visiting the Cayman Islands or gloating over Liesalot to concern himself with such mundane matters.
Just a question Renai Is there still Telstra copper in the ground or will hey have to lay there own copper?
In Canberra there is TransACT and Telstra copper, to my knowledge.
Correct – TransACT FTTP areas (now NBN) had no Telstra copper as they were greenfields sites. The FTTN network is all brownfields, so are served by Telstra copper as well.
As a former resident of Cook, when we moved (thanks Mr Fluffy – NOT) one of the key selection criteria was TransACT or NBN broadband, since I knew after the 2013 election that NBN was effectively dead.
I wonder how bad the cross talk and the like is going to be with two sets of copper running the same tech through the same pits and pipes :/
In Britain, the crosstalk within just the one network is considerable. The word crosstalk has entered the public consciousness, such is its influence on everyday performance, which is an extraordinary thing to happen.
TransACT copper is not in pits and pipes, it is 99% aerial. It is separated from the Telstra copper which is also aerial in those areas. So the crosstalk between the two is not an issue.
Heavy uptake of vdsl2 amongst TransACT customers has seen crosstalk cause my sync speed to drop ~20% from the early days, tho.
There are really only 3 ISPs on TransACT and iiNet is one of them – “open access” is a bit of a joke. Still agree, overbuilding it doesn’t make much sense. So many other places should be getting fttn first.
Remember the AWESOME hfc networks we HAD to buy, because it was so much better to use these than turn them off. Looking at the schedule we are over building hfc in Belrose/Frenchs Forest (NSW) with FTTN in 2017. Explain the logic in doing that.
Just another example of nonsensical behaviour from the NBN company.
No, nonsensical is building HFC in far northern Perth suburbs which have never had HFC before.
I bet its because HFC can be strung along the power poles with no need to negotiate with anyone.
If the cable goes over weight limit on the pole that it’s needs to be replace at upto $10k per pole. But they also have to negotiate with the owners of the poles.
They’re also overbuilding HFC with FTTN in some northern Perth suburbs as they haven’t bothered to buy out smaller HFC providers such as FuzeNet/eWire
They are doing the same thing in Zillmere (the part that isn’t covered by FTTP). There isn’t any HFC down my street, but I am literally surrounded by it, and yet Zillmere and Geebung are slated for FTTN in H2-2017. What the actual f*&k…? I’d ask if they lost the plot, but I’m not sure they had one in the first place…
They are nuts. Nbn run by bunch of loonies?
The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that NBNCo is
1. NBNCo wanting to have as big a monopoly as possible on Fixed Line Broadband to maximise the sale price and attractiveness of NBNCo to potential buyers/investors/future shareholders. (Main reason)
2. NBNCo wanting to send a warning signal (deterrent) to any Companies thinking of building any more Fixed Line Broadband infrastructure in Australia, that they either only do it on NBNCo’s terms or preferably don’t even think of doing it.
3. NBNCo wanting to send a warning signal to any remaining non-NBNCo Fixed Line Broadband Network owners, that if NBNCo wants to acquire your assets or have access to them in some way, that if you don’t come to a reasonable agreement with NBNCo, that NBNCo will just over-build you (at taxpayers expense regardless of how much less this leaves in the kitty for the rest of the Network).
I’d say it’s a Commercial decision, likely on instructions from the Shareholders, who I would assume will already be working on long term planning for the various options and potential buyers or public float of various NBNCo Assets.
The simplest explanation that I thought of is that building to these places that already have FTTN is easy, it can be done quickly and with minimal expense, so then in a few years time they can say that 70% of places are now connected to the NBN. If they had to install NBN to the difficult places not served by existing providers then they wouldn’t be able to claim such a lofty figure.
It’s not going to be faster or cheaper – the TransACT FTTN network is an entirely independent overbuild of the Telstra CAN. Upgrading the Telstra CAN to VDSL2 in TransACT FTTN areas is going to be no different in cost than if the TransACT network never existed.
TBH I think MT is building Telstra 2.0 …. nothing NBN
Cois doing makes sense until you view their activities through this lens.You and Phg found it. The real reason for this utter folly. Get ready for the sell-offs that will simply create additional Telstras, further annihilating the possibility of proper infrastructure competition (even though we know that’s anything but a good policy for Australia with Telstra around).
Yet future Liberal governments will still yearn for proper infrastructure competition and push for it even though their predecessors completely ruined any chance of it multiple times.
But voters will reward them, still believing they have well-considered policies.
It makes perfect sense for when they come to offload it Renai.
There is probably already a backroom deal in place to sell it to Telstra.
This was my thought exactly. If they plan to sell the nbn off once it’s built, they want to maximise their coverage to make it as competitive as possible.
I do think that part of their reasoning could be that they will already have workers and equipment near the area. Rather than coming back later, they just move a suburb over now. So from a logistics sense it could make a but more sense.
Something like Telstra’s contracted pit and duct and asbestos remediation that was part of the original $11Bill. Telstra found the 2Bill allocated was woefully inadequate so slow the whole deal down as LNP looked a shoe in, the asbestos hype when it had been an issue I was reading about a couple of years before.
Suddenly now all NBN’s problem and Telstra is being paid to do that work plus maintain the copper.
The Nation and Taxpayer has been scammed and ripped off mercilessly
How do we get a independent inquiry into the handling and actions of NBN since the last election. This is becoming nothing more than a massive waste of tax payers dollars!
We all knew that before the last election, but still voted this mob of no-hopers into government.
As a consequence, the chance of an inquiry is even more remote than ‘scum , Muttonhead and Mendacious Mal developing an empathy gland.
This is truly bizarre. NBN Co tried to stop TPG building duplicate infrastructure because it would be detrimental to their business model, and now they are overbuilding by choice in areas that have an existing provider who already has a good grip on the market. What incentive will there be for people to move from their existing FTTN to the NBN FTTN? NONE!
And yet if you look at areas like Dubbo NSW, who were promised a full FTTP rollout, their rollout has now been changed to include FTTN to part of the city because NBN Co claim they don’t have the money to do full FTTN. The worst of it is that the areas in the city that can get no fixed line broadband were supposed to be the first to get FTTP. Makes sense, they are the most underserved. Then NBN Co took those areas off the map and started rolling out FTTP in the better served areas of town. Now NBN Co have put the worst served areas back on the map, and are giving them FTTN instead. So not only are the worst served areas going to remain the worst served, there is a needless digital divide separating half the city.
I am just baffled! It’s impossible to make sense out of anything that NBN Co are doing, and their secrecy and lack of transparency only make things worse. If this is the “less worse” version that Hackett promised, what were we going to get before????!!!!!!!
Next thing they’ll be moving their HQ t5 the Cayman Islands. So much more peaceful behind the PM’s veil of secrecy.
If you think Dubbo is bad lets talk about our southern brethren in Tassie.
Tasmania was always supposed to be 100% fibre. By all accounts its now going to be 50/50.
Maybe they’re not overbuilding at all, maybe they’re just buying the networks and calling it a rollout to bolster numbers.
You know what we need here in Canberra (and equally in all the other spots where NBNCo is doing stupid things)? We need something like Google to come in and deploy their own networks, the same as they’re doing in the US.
I know it’s pie in the sky, and probably completely unviable economically, but the ONLY thing that’s going to stop this idiocy is competition from someone who knows what they’re doing. And I say this as a signed-up member of the Greens, and someone who believes this kind on infrastructure should be deployed equitably, and as a public service.
What are the ramifications for this decision in the context of the federal election next year? Consider that the purpose of Malcolm and NBN Co 2.0 has been to undermine the viability of the entire network, what better way to wreck the project than enter into construction contracts that will cost a fortune yet result in almost zero revenue? Jason Clare has stated that FTTN is dead under Labor, *but* they will be unable to stop it in its tracks and deploy FTTP universally as contracts will need to be fulfilled etc. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think for a second that Malcolm is contemplating losing to Shorten – I am doubtful Labor can win under that man. But this is a dead man’s switch – under the LNP NBN Co will simply refuse to discuss real costs and how things are going until they’re ready, in which case they’ll claim it is crippling the budget draining billions a year and it should be offloaded to the ‘highest bidder’, which means it will be sold to Telstra for a small fraction of the construction costs. If Labor win, it will take them years to unravel the mess, and I doubt they even have the political will to sack the whole board and executive team as Malcolm did (as it will make them look like hypocrits to the uninformed, who, let’s face it, outnumber the informed 100 to 1).
So yes, in the context of constructing a viable network, this is ludicrous, but in the context of making it untenable for the government to retain ownership of the NBN, everything is going very much to plan. They’re refusing to release substantial corporate plan documents as ‘commercial in confidence’ because you would see projected return resulting from the next three years of construction makes the project a giant budget sinkhole. Commercial in confidence needs to be outlawed as a defence for releasing documents from government departments and public projects – it is demonstrably undemocratic.
Offload to the highest bidder?
I thought the plan was to maybe to offload the NBNCo HFC Network to the highest bidder that Telstra approved of. For example a new wholesale company set up to acquire and manage the HFC Network, owned Telstra (50%), News Corp (25%), various Power companies with useful poles and wires assets the other (25%).
There won’t be a highest bidder. Those maintenance contracts alone will sink most companies profits and if the NBN isn’t breaking even good luck getting anyone to want to touch it with a barge pole (even Telstra).
Fixed line margins are pretty darn small in comparison to ROI in other tech areas.
So five days to go, the future is almost here and these clowns decided in 2015 to stop a perfectly good FttP rollout for FttN, yeah that was dumb enough, great, now according to this they plan to overbuild FttN (not FttP, which I could understand) in an area already covered by FttN by the private sector, the same private sector the coalition clowns told us should be doing it instead of a GBE before the election! Unbelievable. Unfuckingbelievable.
More popcorn, considering the image MUCH more popcorn…
Wonder what excuse NBN will give at the next senate hearing
@HC The NBN policy folly continues.
Why would you defend the overbuilding with FTTH? What’s the difference with the $11b Telstra / Optus deal the retire infrastructure apart from Conroy not writing a massive cheque? Continuing the original plan to overbuild perfectly well serviced areas, their revenue model requires it. What a disaster, entirely as predicted.
There’s no way TPG and others wouldn’t agree to sell their soon to be worthless infrastructure.
Great artlcle in the AFR covered by Renai. Conroy / Rudd NBN a comedy, perfected by Turnbull. Said from the beginning the cost to taxpayers of this folly will be billions, now revised tens of billions.
Update from Nepal; Oz and other Govts donations, enough to rebuild every house destroyed in earthquake, has disappeared. No houses rebuilt. Keep working aussie taxpayers.
Because FttN is a waste of time and money. I thought we covered this crap years ago on Zdnet. Apparently not. FttP is the end game… why am I even wasting my time repeating myself when I should be eating more popcorn…
Indeed. Just I predicted. Coalition clowns have the fecal touch it seems. Everything they touch turns to shit. NBN no exception. Expect more diarrhea in the coming months from the very plan you endorsed.
What a disaster as entirely as predicted?
Well yes HC and I (and many others here predicted it)….
But HC I don’t recall our dear friend and worldly traveller Richard, saying FttN would be a disaster ever?
So please correct me if I’m wrong (I won’t ask Richard as he already has been chastised lying by endeavouring to rewrite history in relation to his previous comments)..
But contrary to his predicted disaster didn’t Richard suggest that Mal’s plan was so correct in every aspect, that it was as if “he had been commissioned to write it?”
So commissioned to write it and predicted disaster are absolutely and completely contrary. Although having seen the FttN/1950’s fanboys and their endless contradictions and well…lies, nothing they say or claim they said would surprise…
So what do you think HC?
Don’t worry about Richard. I wiped the floor with him in another thread. He said that the CAN is fine. I showed him evidence from 2 Telstra workers that the CAN is as rotten as a corpse.
Happy to wipe the floor any day with you any day Richard. Get a book on clear thinking and argument 101. Then come back to me.
@rizz
True I’ve never claimed FTTN is a disaster, it isn’t. The NBN is the disaster.
I’m afraid it was you caught lying in the comment thread 4-5 days ago. I suggest you reread it.
HC linked to the actual post 4-5 days ago. I never claimed the Lib plan was correct in every aspect nor perfect. I never challenged anyone to find where I worked nor post my email. You claimed neither of you posted my surname, yet it is posted in that very thread. You claim I’ve not been critical of NBN under liberals yet my posts are otherwise, only putting the position MTM is less expensive than the FTTH; both a folly.
Andrew
Comments from two telstra workers. And the only evidence I presented was billions of dollars in CAN revenue generated per year. Yep really showed me up;-)
As solid as HC it is because I said so several years ago. Can’t possibly disagree.
Wait, wait, wait. Just a second. Are you suggesting because YOU used your full name on Zdnet years ago that I cant post links to any NBN article that you have commented in now?
Rizz is right. No one here has posted your full name here that I am aware of. You may have used it yourself on Zdnet but that was your choice. I reserve the right to refer to any NBN article on Zdnet when discussion requires it and I shouldn’t be restricted your poor decisions.
I think Richard has gone completely mad.
@HC I never claimed any such thing. Rizz claimed my surname wasn’t posted is false. He also understands that posting such information is not reasonable, you clearly don’t. Much like your revealations of my work email address (wbtw was never posted on the company’s website as you claim) it adds nothing to the conversation.
Then debate to some is they said something years ago, therefore it should be incontestable.
Posting a link to Zdnet not reasonable now?
I’ll post all the links to Zdnet I like. I’m under no obligation to take your irrational feelings into consideration on this at all.
I think you are the one who is being unreasonable.
Your email WAS on the website. It may not be there now but when I found the website it was. Else how the HELL did I get it?
So to summarise, you post all this information for all to see on the internet and on the company website where anyone and everyone can find it and then you complain it was meant to be private. Not only that you complain when someone post a link to an article containing your name that YOU posted by your own volition. Unbelievable.
Sorry, got nothing else for you Richard. This conversation is terminated.
@HC My details were never on the company’s website, your claim is demonstratively untrue. I managed the web development and over saw the site’s construction.
You googled the information from other sources (likely ARM SoM testimonial) then posted it, irrelevantly, to intimidate. History repeats in this very forum.
For a decade or more I posted on ZDNet using my full name without concern. Not even the Microsoft shrills prepared me for the abuse and vindictiveness of the NBN fanboys. History has been unkind to both their positions and supportive of mine.
Sorry, I don’t even know where or what “ARM SoM testimonial” is. All the information I got was on the website. Most likely I assume put there by you, I cant think who else would have done it. It’s all over the place, on sites linking to beomix etc. So WTF does this information being there have to do with me? I assume you put it there for your customers?
I didn’t put it on beomix
I didn’t put it on Google
I didn’t put it on any of the other websites.
All this information was/is for all to find. Yet you criticise me for simply finding it. Information that anyone can find with Google! ffs.
Take the contact information off the websites if it concerns you so much. That information being there has NOTHING to do with me and EVERYTHING to do with you. I have no control of it. You do.
And please enough of the perpetual victim act, it’s getting a little stale.
Oh FFS Richard…
You claimed that you had said particular words years ago at ZD (but sadly couldn’t find them now).
But HC posted a link to very ZD comment you said you couldn’t find, which proved you didn’t actually say what you claimed (ooh wah) and ergo proved your claim 100% wrong.
And within his link, again the one you said you looked for but couldn’t find, (so HC, very kindly did the work for you) was your full name, which “you had posted”.
Don’t blame anyone else for finding a comment you said you couldn’t find (which proved you FOS) and then sob it had your name – which you put on it.
FFS again had HC posted your comment sans your name, guess what (as it contradicted your current claims), you would have denied it…
Again I reiterate, I have not mentioned your full name and neither had HC. He linked to a comment from you to disprove your current BS and proved it BS and you FOS. Sorry but facts are facts
Ergo, I agree with HC stop playing the victim every time your baseless, dumb, blinkered, 1950’s, idiot ideological argument is (as it inevitably is) found wanting.
“Why would you defend the overbuilding with FTTH?”
Because it could conceivably serve our broadband needs for half a century or more?
At what cost? No other possible solution?
Apparently your MTM has an open check book upto $56B and counting
“At what cost?”
Excellent question. What is the cost of the MTM beyond initial construction?
Yeah Brandonmp
Considering the SR had 7 years after it complete to match FTTP. Now with the $15B blow out is now most like 2-4 years.
@jasonk
Considering how ‘off’ the figures for the MTM from the SR were, NBN Co should also provide a new figure for upgrades to the MTM.
Even at $150 billion FTTP would be cheap when you look at the benefit to the economy, instead of ignoring it.
There is no other workable solution in Australia’s situation.
What does your accounting skills tell you about doing things twice. That’s economical no? Even if we were to save 50% on MTM still doing it twice is just a waste of funds.
Find me a commercial concern that is thinking Cu is the future of internet (I don’t mean using it I mean they’re 100% committed to Cu).
Sure it cost more doing it right once but as long as its a long term deal it always works out for the better. This isn’t some short term public traded startup that needs to impress shareholders with stunning returns its a GBE that should be building a national infrastructure for our countries future. Under quigley it was scheduled to make anywhere from 6-8% ROI. That’s now 2% iff we’re lucky.
We’ve a 1 way soon to be 2 way freeway in SA that is going to cost state taxpayers twice the original budget to do it right the second time around. This all because the politicians wanted to ‘save’ $40 million to build a pet project.
Increase to GDP for every doubling of internet speed if we were using fibre is a benefit that hadn’t really been factored in anywhere yet and the increase on fibre >> Cu (NG2 PON is 10Gb @ 40km).
That new “$11B” deal now cost more than the original so far a sum of at least $27B now.
Before TPG didnt want to complete there FTTB vs FTTP.But after Turnbull get elected TPG announced there roll out and nbn and Turnbull has tried everything to stop them. Labor was targeting already existing providers are the NBN until the rest of the network was complete. You can now thank Turnbull for not rolling out in undeserved areas.
Turnbull is the Master because he has blown out by $27B in 2 year without building anything what a joke.
Only $8B to go for Turnbull last figures if they had continued rolling out FTTP.
I mean when you think about it.. NBN are overbuilding copper with copper :P
Cross talk anyone? Their worried about ADSL and VDSL I wonder what two VDSL signals in cables close to each will do?
Checking the NBN 3 year plan, my home area is planned for HFC in H1-2017. However, my street and several other streets in the area have no HFC cable now. In fact, all the utility services are underground.
Are they going to plan put new HFC under ground in 2017?
Don’t youse just love living in an adversarial democracy? Actually, I’d say we’re moving toward an antagonistic democracy. Actually, let’s just leave off the word democracy. Now, what passes for our government can… legitimately?… tell us: “It’s mind over matter. We don’t mind, and you don’t matter.”
Seriously, I have always been wary of using Mikhail Kalashnikov’s products as a solution, our history indicates the “cure” is much, much worse than the disease. On the other hand, if we as a nation don’t soon get together and make our votes meaningful so we can enter a harmonious and fruitful relationship with our elected representatives, then [all sorts of bad things can be imagined here but I cannot elucidate them].
Renai, I really thought the first few words of this para were going somewhere: “Read my lips, NBN Co: You are owned by the Government. You should be…” But then they took a very wide detour to the far outskirts of reality. The problem is that NBN is owned by the government, and the government is no longer accountable to us the plebians. The NBN is doing exactly what it should be doing, what it has been told to do.
Because Australians are taught that politicians are right and everyone else is not worthy, we get the mis-rule we deserve. We will get good governance only when we all wake up and understand that any Party with more than ten representatives should not attract our vote. Let me finish by mentioning that bastion of political chaos, Italy: which houses some of the biggest companies in the world (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles comes to mind), makes and crews its own ships, makes its own aircraft, the list is very long. All the things we Australians either may not do or cannot do.
I just can’t wait until Donald Trump wins the election and decides to annex Australia as the 53 State.
Gordon.
I think David Theo and TPG should launch an ISDS case against the Government and NBN for making stupid decisions that are likely to impact the bottom line of TPG.
Use one government brain fart to combat another…
Can TPG say something about this?
To the best of my knowledge, NBNco made no approach to iiNet to buy their HFC or FTTN networks. TPG only recently acquired iiNet and TPG’s business decision re only recently relevant. I thought iiNet were on the record as being open to selling these networks to NBNco, they certainly made a point of not being asked.
I have a theory as to why NBNco hasn’t tried to acquire these networks, the costs and difficulties integrating the IT support/management systems. We have already seen massive cost blowouts due to these changes to support Telstra and Optus networks, acquiring additional networks would see more delays and costs.
It does make you wonder if this additional complexity is worth it.
https://twitter.com/karinakeisler/status/655620641626849280
Because f*ck the GBE right?
Apparently he couldn’t say this before the last election when it would have made more sense. What a joke our country has become. Another clown joins the ranks.
I say thank you to NBN! I live in Geelong within the HFC network but because of the position of power lines I can’t get the iiNet HFC cable to my house, much to my frustration. I’m sure there are many others in similar situations. If iiNet can’t guarantee access to EVERY premises within the HFC footprint, NBN must deploy their network as a universal service obligation.
Ugh, NBN have not completely overbuilt Transacts HFC network in Ballarat thank you. At least not yet. Suburbs Wendouree and Mitchell Park are HFC and not on the NBN radar until 2017.
“However, analysis conducted by Delimiter has revealed that the company plans to substantially overbuild a number of areas already well-served by precisely the kind of broadband infrastructure it is deploying.”
Yes. Of course they will. Remember, this is what the ACCC wants. Massive overbuild of the last mile to foster “infrastructure competition”. I’m not sure why this is a surprise?
MTM means overbuild is virtually guaranteed to happen; once again in many cases to ensure a node services enough addresses to become profitable.
So, overbuilding and copper remediation. On purpose. For financially logical reasons. Just as it’s ideologically (some might say idiotically?) driven.
It is a shame that the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is heavily focusing on competition, even where it does not make sense, and not focusing so much on the consumer.
Maybe Tony is still in the background, now semi-retired but pulling the strings.
He wanted it killed off completely.
Overbuilding, getting no customers, then saying how bad “Labor’s” whole nbn thing was sounds like a convenient point at which to say “oh well, shut up shop”.
:)
An interesting avenue of inquiry could be to investigate how much of what they are overbuilding is owned by telstra. I have a suspicion that with the increasing probability that the liberal party are going to get re-elected, and the cosy relationship that many in that party have with telstra, they might be restructuring the build in such a way that would favor a telstra rebuy of the network in the future. It would match the apparent agenda of this government to give preferential treatment to the commercial interests of certain business and corporations in this country.
I’d also like to point out that South Tuggeranong which is also not on the NBN rollout plan yet, also doesn’t have Transact. I also joke about Tuggeranong being the most liberal voting part of Canberra, so we are not even being pork barrelled :-) It would definately help the Libs in next years ACT election.
And to make matters worse for me, I live in Bonython. Probably worse off than cook, because we only have 1 ADSL provider, which is Telstra. No one else put any DSLAMs into Tuggeranong exchange, It is the only residential suburb hanging off that exchange, plus parts of Greenway. It infuriates me to think that people with access to broadband will get access to multiple broadband networks.
I also think it makes much more commercial sense to install FTTP in Canberra. Some of the highest takeup rates in Australia, which means it is most likely going to pay for itself.
Yep… insane…. We’re about to move to Hawker and will sign up with iiNet’s VDSL network… And we heard that the NBN is coming to the suburb… with *no* difference – if not worse than the existing VDSL from what I here (due to inferior node to premise distances).. And our old apartment building just got iiNet VDSL2 after I petitioned them and bam – it was in.. Then.. NBN comes in. Precise duplication.
This, after many years of enduring pretty sad copper ADSL speeds and reliability. My old house used to drop out after every storm. Dickson was a joke – with a friend actually unable to get more than dial-up speeds on ADSL.
The explanation provided by NBN is frankly quite strange. With so many desperately under served areas already – we’re about to get ‘upgrade’ to an inferior NBN ‘solution’. All apparently chasing iiNet’s superior VSDL2 network.
Strange strange strange…
I just learnt this. Someone is getting 200/40 on their IInet HFC and they are trying to replace it by force with FTTN.
Haha! I live in Cook in the ACT and this hits home, being a father and only getting download speeds of 300kb/s. I was starting to wonder if it was actually written about me. Anyway, you can see the Libs are jumping the shark with their crackpot NBN debacle. When Labor was in, Cook was next cab off the rank to get the NBN, then the Libs got in and took it off the list. What’s worse is that the NBN 3 year Canberra plan came out a couple of months ago and Cook is still not on the list. I didn’t realize that they were focusing on areas that already have VDSL…………. What a joke.
Even more awful is that my wife is so keen for our kids to go to Aranda Primary School that I can’t even move so solve my issue…………..
WTF Libs, seriously…………..
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