Labor, Greens slam Turnbull hypocrisy: PM pumps innovation but ‘trashes’ NBN


news Labor and Greens politicians have this week labelled Malcolm Turnbull a hypocrite for pushing Australia’s innovation credentials in the United States while simultaneously having “trashed” the National Broadband Network, as debate grows about the infrastructure’s significant to the Prime Minister’s innovation vision.

This week Turnbull held meetings with US President Barack Obama and senior members of Congress in Washington, as well as speaking directly to US presidential candidates such as the Democrats’ Hilary Clinton.

At several junctures, the Prime Minister used the meetings to highlight the focus on innovation policy that he has brought to the Federal Government since taking the top job from his predecessor Tony Abbott late in 2015.

Obama said, in a joint press conference with Turnbull: “I know that the Prime Minister has an agenda to spur additional innovation and investment in science and technology in Australia, which in this economy is going to be vital for any economy to succeed.  So I’ll be interested to hear his plans, and maybe offer my thoughts about the work that we’re doing to continue to make sure that our economy is a dynamic, knowledge-based economy.”

And speaking to a breakfast event held by the US Chamber of Commerce, Turnbull said:

“We need to be more innovative at every level. We need to do more coding, more science in schools, we need to get our universities collaborating more with industry. We need to collaborate across borders and we will be announcing our further collaboration between our peak health research institutes between America and Australia in the course of the day today.”

“Right across the board, innovation is the key to our success, and to your success. It is the key to America’s success. And that is why when we come to America, and I felt like this 41 years ago, and I still feel like that today, I’m always energized by the enthusiasm of this country – by a new world constantly reimagined by entrepreneurship, and innovation.”

However, the Prime Minister’s comments did not find as firm a welcome back home in Australia as they might have in the US.

On Twitter last night, former Treasurer and Labor MP Wayne Swan — one of the inner group of Ministers who signed off on Labor’s National Broadband Network vision — expressed his disgust with Turnbull.

“Unbelievable watching Turnbull promote innovation in the US after he trashed the NBN,” wrote Swan.

And on Sky News yesterday, Greens Communications Spokesperson Scott Ludlam said if the Government wanted to talk about “agility” … “let’s fix the broken NBN”.

The NBN has been something of an eyesore for Turnbull since the Prime Minister released his flagship Innovation and Science Agenda in December last year.

The document — which covers several dozen detailed policy initiatives — was hailed as a much-awaited landmark win for Australia’s technology sector, as well as innovation and entrepreneurship policy in general in this country.

However, the policy barely mentions the NBN, and Turnbull also faced questions at the policy launch event pertaining to the controversial Multi-Technology Mix model for the National Broadband Network which he instituted as Communications Minister. The model is significantly technically weaker than the near-universal fibre model which Labor originally instigated for the NBN.

Image credit: Office of Malcolm Turnbull


  1. Turnbull needs to be nailed to the wall on this one.
    It probably won’t happen with the lack of media coverage it’s likely to get though.

    • Yeah Uncle Rupert will make sure Turdball is not trashed in the media. Strange though I would have had Turdball as being too smart to be actively promoting his sloganistic “Agile and Innovative” claptrap in direct and massive contradiction to his trashing of the real NBN.

      • There are other possible reasons for him to be promoting it. A lack of morals, for example.

    • Labor need to be nailed to the wall for building a 1Gbps FTTP network where 79% are connected at 25Mbps or slower, 16% (and falling) at 100Mbps and zero at 1Gbps.

      If NBNCo removed the speed tiers on FTTN, the average speeds would be faster than FTTP because most Australians (79%) aren’t prepared to pay for faster speeds.

      Labor had an opportunity to build a financial model with a cheap flat connection fee which was funded through data usage. They chose a complicated financial model, predicted that 50% would sign up at 12Mbps and we end up with a FTTP network with 79% connected at speeds easily obtainable on HFC, FTTN and 4G.

      • _mathew_ you need to be nailed to a wall for being as short sighted libtroll who fails to understand the concept of building infrastructure for the future, as opposed the past past that you are stuck in!

      • Lol Mathew classic conduction in the one post.

        First Australian aren’t prepared to pay for faster speeds then you expect them to pay more if they use more data

        Considering the NBN in its current MTM model is expecting 67% on 25 or less and 100 at 22%. But you can also argument the FTTN being unable to deliver speeds that where claimed. Like the post getting 96Mbps and dripping down below 25Mbps. So why would someone want to pay for 100Mbps when they are getting less then 25Mbps when they want to use it lol. That could be the reason for the increase in 25 and below

    • The trouble with calling for a Royal Commission is that what Abbott and Turnbull did (the greatest piece of infrastructure vandalism we are ever likely to see) was 1) by virtue (hah!) of their positions as Ministers of the Crown, legal, and 2) not for their own financial benefit.

      The only penalty these two are ever likely to face is the judgement of history.

      And the longer the Libs are in power, the weaker that judgement will be.

  2. I doubt the ALP can win the next election due to the continued free ride the MSM is generally giving TurnBULL, but should the ALP miraculously win power they really need to launch a Judicial inquiry or Royal Commision into TurnBULL’s destruction of the NBN.

    There’s no shortage of smoking guns imo eg fraudulent reports, reviews and “CBA”‘s, mates writing those reviews, mates hired to run NBN Co (JBR, Ziggy etc), Exec’s owning large Telstra shareholdings allowed to keep their shares while negotiating with Telstra to buy the copper networks and shifting huge billion dollar remediation and maintenance costs from Telstra to NBN Co etc etc!!!

    TurnBULL and his Cronies need to be jailed as a warning to ALL pollies that destroying national projects to benefit your mates and major donors will not be tolerated by the Australian public!

  3. Hypocrisy an understatement. I don’t think there is even a word to describe it. Australia was rolling out a nationwide fibre telecommunications network that would have saved time and money but decides to go backwards and implement a sloppy solution instead. Internationally if people are not laughing now they will be in years to come. Some comments already expressing dismay at the politically motivated clusterfuck.

    So as for innovation, yeah, if you call doing things the least efficient way innovative (I’m sure coalition clowns and GimpCo would) then yes Australia is very innovative. At the very least we’ve shown the rest of the world what shouldn’t be done.

    • > Hiypocrisy an understatement.

      What would you call listing all the great opportunities the NBN would open up and then planning that most people wouldn’t have access to the speeds that make those services possible?

      What would you call announcing a 1Gbps network speed in response to Google Fibre just prior the 2010 election and omitting to mention the fine print that less than 1% would connect at 1Gbps in 2026?

      > Australia was rolling out a nationwide fibre telecommunications network that would have saved time and money but decides to go backwards and implement a sloppy solution instead.

      A network which today 79% are choosing to connect at 25Mbps or slower. I would hardly call that a network with world class speeds, especially when you consider that less and less people on fibre are connecting at 100Mbps (down to 16% and falling).

      > At the very least we’ve shown the rest of the world what shouldn’t be done.

      Yes, building a network based on an artificial financial model with speed tiers and quotas which has meant that very few have benefited from what the network would deliver is definitely an example of this. Having a 1Gbps plans that RSPs simply aren’t able to make work because the numbers don’t add up.

      • So by 2026 when 100Mbps cost the same as 25Mbps will you still be expecting 79% to still be on 25Mbps or less?

        You cry 1Gps this 1Gbps that. Why is the NBN upgrade HFC to 3.1 supply 100Mbps + speeds. So your expecting half the country to be able to pay for which ever speed they want but expect the other half your expecting having to pay or move to get that same service lol

  4. Innovate me a real democracy. Lets ban the party trash from government!

    • “Lets ban the party trash from government!

      And just how do you propose to achieve this? Outlaw freedom of association?

      • I can recall the Hawke labor gov outlawing the BLF union so why not outlaw another group of thugs destroying the country?

      • @David F –

        Bloody good question. Adversarial Party Politics is the inevitable end (result) of democracy. It is the natural entropy of reasonable debate, and we see it here in these and other comments forums. In the US, we see a real and significant probability that Donald Trump will achieve the Oval Office by “virtue” of the redneck vote. We note–sadly–that the Eastern European states are regressing to what appear to be right-wing autocracies.

        I think a real and workable democracy would almost certainly be a form of government we would not be happy with. I don’t yet have a handle on its shape, but I suspect it too will be born of our collective blood, just as were the freedoms we enjoy today.

        Just remember, the right to vote and the obligation to vote are two completely different animals.

        • I dunno, I think it would be relatively simple. Not very palatable, perhaps, but not excessively complicated.

          The problem is the confusion between universal suffrage (the right of everyone to have a say in society, which is laudable and admirable) and the right of everyone to have an active say regardless of their ability to comprehend the subject matter and the implications of their decision. Political discourse has been a race to the bottom ever since the beginning of democracy – if you read political speeches, debates and announcements from 200 years ago it boggles the mind that any more than 1% of the population would be capable of comprehending it. Admittedly only white men with land had the right to vote back then, so it is a flawed comparison, but my point is that we have gone from thoughtful, ambitious, intellectual debate and discussion, where suffrage was gradually granted to various groups and those people were expected to engage with the political discourse, to political thinking realising there are far more uneducated voters than well educated, so simplifying their language and message to the point where we’re down to 10 second soundbites appealing to racist bigotry. Another ten years and political slogans will be down to slightly differentiated guttural noises – “Uurrrgh!” Vs “bleugh!”.

          Some variation on that is the inevitable future, as is the continued decline in education and societal values generally as long as the majority who are already un-or-under-educated get to dictate the result.

          The solution is to ensure universal right to, and availability of, education for all, while limiting voting rights to those who can demonstrate knowledge and understanding of both the issues at hand and the parties and politicians vying for their vote. If you don’t know what is going on, you don’t get a say. But you have the right to, and free access to all the education you might wish to acquire.

          • G’day UGuest –

            You’ve made my day! Thanks for replying, especially as it looks like you’ve put some thought into it.

            Look. Problem is we don’t have a huge nesting capacity in these comments, and I do really want to see a thorough discussion if possible. I’m going to start a new thread in Renai’s forum space, by pasting my first argument when I’ve posted this. If you would like to paste your reply under mine, that would be grouse.

            Then I’ll respond to your thoughts… Some of which are very relevant.

            We did this a couple of years ago on Renai’s original site, which was fun but again suffered from lack of nesting capacity.

      • The states have already started outlawing freedom of association for “outlaw motorcycle gangs”, why not add politicians to the legislation?

  5. Interesting that Labor and the Greens criticise the Coalition MtM model while not actually having any NBN policy of their own as yet, specifying what plans they have to fix the ‘problem’ post election win later this year.

    Other than Clare stating it not possible to go back to the Labor model of FTTP to 93% of residences, a model that the Labor NBN Co were struggling to stick to, where target rollout predictions in the end were about half of what they had originally estimated.

    A model of which the prime mover of the Labor NBN Conroy said was too ambitious after they lost the election (shh don’t mention any of that).

    So what are you going to do Labor and Greens?

    1. HFC – going ahead with that or not, and/or canceling any plans for DOCSIS 3.1?

    2. FTTB – going ahead with that or not?

    3. Active FTTN connections, retrofit with FTTP or not?

    The time frame and revised costing for all of that.

    The electorate look forward to real alternative solutions beyond the rhetoric real soon.

    • >>So what are you going to do Labor and Greens?<<

      It might be a fairer question when the election date is known and we can see how far the MTM is committed.

    • You assume Labor & Greens know exactly what’s going on in the NBN to answer those questions.

      • oh so they know enough about the Coalition MtM NBN to criticise it but not enough to know what to do about it.


        • If I linked all the garbage the Liberal government put out without knowing jack-shit about Labors NBN I would fill the maximum characters in the comment section. Tough love you’re not getting the answers you wont.
          Welcome to politics sonny jim

        • The coalition’s plans and numbers keep changing, as the problems everyone with a clue knew would happen with FTTN keep coming to light.
          So any plans to fix it would have to change as a result.

          • I understand it is a moving dynamic, the Labor rollout was a moving dynamic especially the targets, the problem Labor have is try to be seen to be different with an alternative NBN policy which in reality is a MtM policy.

          • The only thing that is moving is the shit (aka MtM) flowing very slowly downhill across Australia!

          • “The only thing that is moving is the shit…”

            And the ever contradictory stupid comments from alain, which fall into the same category.

          • .. and the ever repetitive rubbish by Derek O, Rizz, Hotcakes and Jason K all the same person to try and bolster up the FTTP fanboy numbers and high five and support each others comments.

          • Reality_Distortion come back when you’ve seen how badly the copper infrastructure is failing Australian businesses. You know real world experiences, something you IPA liberals lack!

      • thats not enough to slow Turnbull down for a millisecond sadly, he will mention some cooked up average that FTTP under Labor would have delivered ( including cooked up numbers about which plans people would select) and do an Abbott, say that they were “utterly,utterly” sincere about their guarantee but were not privy to all the information about ‘just how bad a mess’ Labor had supposedly created.

      • Hmm let’s take a look ..

        On Fixed Wireless NBN in Regional Australia:
        Periods (6 days last week) of 0.18 Mbps (not a typo, as low as 151 Kbps) and the NBN “Netphone” (Their exciting VOIP solution) out last time for 8 days. (It’s had issues from day 1)

        Contacting NBN Co : useless,
        ISP Support often has trouble coming to grips that Fixed Wireless NBN is NOT fibre.,
        I have to do the troubleshooting and send them the data over
        2 days (usual situation).

        The MAX plan speed at the top cost is 25/Mbps (ie adsl2 ish) and MAX allowed plan is 250gb ( all NBN Co limited by, not ISP)

        And the Telco CSG ..Oh they (NBN Co) made it a condition that we waive ALL CSG rights to get the service, so one can’t even complain to any authority…

        What about Turnbull’s “MMode NBN solution” . oh wait no dsl2 here.. (even though I’m 800 metres odd from an exchange..Telstra refused to enable the exchanges)

        Yeah we’re doing just great on that target …

        • @ GordonF
          Sounds very much like you’ve picked a dud ISP or are confusing satellite with FW.
          My VOIP FW has functioned well. For years on ADSL & for the past 18 months on NBN FW. Far clearer & static free than on our copper.
          Our FW rarely drops below 20/4Mb/s & max speed available on FW is now 50/20.
          Also max available FW data is not NBN limited to 250GB as 500GB & unlimited are also on offer from some providers.

    • Once again you trot out this same boring garbage Reality.

      The LNP didnt announce their NBN policy until 6 months before the election in 2013 but had plenty of complaints about the Labor policy, but Labor/Greens aren’t allowed to complain/criticise without first announcing their policy?

      Pot? Meet Kettle, he too is black.

      • R0in
        I just sat to Reality that Labor new policy is to deliver FTTP for just $29B and have it complete in 3 years. Since it was ok for Turnbull to claim that for his policy. And Reality can’t argue with it because his excuse is because it’s ok because CP’s change.

      • R0ninX3ph,

        “but Labor/Greens aren’t allowed to complain/criticise without first announcing their policy?”

        I understand the timing of when the Coalition policy was released relative to the 2013 election but in terms of formulating policy you could say the Coalition had it easy, the Labor FTTP rollout was on the nose because of missed targets and cost blowouts.

        The political wheel has turned full circle again and the Coalition rollout is on the nose because of missed targets and cost blowouts, (welcome to national infrastructure builds) but does the electorate believe Labor can do anything about it the second time around when they had six years last time and blew it.

        It will be extremely awkward if not impossible for Labor not to implement a NBN MtM policy and get the knife into FTTN targets in a big way, but if it is too much ‘same as’ Coalition policy the electors to whom the NBN is a key influence on their vote will decide their vote is about other matters.

        • Reality
          Yes the coalition is on the noise and missed rollout by a long way consider they have now only started rolling out FTTN which should have been complete by the end of the year. Cost blow yes they could have done FTTP for almost the same cost lol. But what took labor six years to do it only to coalition 2 years well really only 3 months going from FTTN to MTM but that is quite an achievement.

          • which should have been complete by the end of the year

            343 days to go btw.

        • what 6 years would they be ? NBNCo was established in mid 2009 , yes Labor promised a new broadband network but its more than generous to the coalition (who took over a rolling project with 3 technologies they intended on keeping) to count Labors rollout as beginning in 09.
          4 years-ish

        • Reality, that was a nice big long response that didn’t reply to my comment at all. Good job.

        • I remember missed targets but I can’t remember cost blowouts, I think from memory that the figure was revised upwards by a couple of billion but that was expected, add least by me.

        • Yes Reality Labor do have a policy it will be…
          FASTER, CHEAPER, SOONER then the Coalition and every Australian will have speeds of 100/40Mb by 2018
          cross by heart. LOL

      • Woolfe,

        ” New Greens Leader Richard Di Natale has confirmed he will stand firm behind the original universal Fibre to the Premises version of the National Broadband Network, rejecting what he said was the “half-measures” being implemented by the Coalition Federal Government.”

        Oh so the Greens will hold firm on the original FTTP NBN policy, that is FTTP to 93% of residences by 2021.

        This is the policy that Labors Shadow Communications said will be virtually impossible to re implement in 2016-2017 after three years of a Coalition MtM rollout.

        So that means all residences on active NBN HFC, FTTB and FTTN post election 2016 will be kicked off those connections and retrofitted with FTTP ,whilst keeping the FTTP rollout going in brownfield and greenfield areas not yet serviced by FTTN, FTTB or HFC?


        • I think its pretty obvious that they would get as close to the original target without descending into absurdity, its pretty hard to know how much FTTN the coalition will have installed by the time the unannounced election happens

          • The election must be held before January 2017, probably around September – October, according to Turnbull.

            It will take more from Labor and the Greens than mumbling feel good one liners about FTTP without specifying what they are going to about active FTTN and HFC connections, and the proposed upgrade of HFC to DOCSIS 3.1.

            Politically the smart thing to do for Labor is to keep silent about this all the way to the election, with a ‘ we will review this after the election’ excuse because they will want to avoid referring to the MtM terminology in association with their policy at all in the lead up to the election.

          • Well Reality
            All they have to is Turnbull $29B not a cent more complete by 2016. Considering you can they can talk about all the FTTN and HFC connection when

            1. There where suppose to have about 10M connected by the end of 2016 what there current 50000 on FTTN.

            2. The SR claimed it would have all the HFC connected by 2016 it won’t start until 2018.

            But then there is the cost now more then labor original cost and Mortow admits they have no idea what FTTP would have cost if they melted going. Gone from $29B now $56B the rate it’s going to next CP could be even higher again.

          • @Reality – FWIW, WA has State elections allegedly on Saturday 11 March 2017. Malcolm 2X will probably not want to upset WA Liberals who are also on the nose here (all praise to Brian Burkette), so he needs to get his over with ‘way before Xmas, or reschedule for maybe May 2017.

          • He can’t reschedule for May 2017, the Federal election has to be between the 6th August at the earliest and 14th January 2017 at the latest.

        • Wow alain for someone who claims no political motivation (bahahaha) you sure have your “election timetable” at the ready…


        • Yep.
          Looks like it.

          I presume they will have to modify certain details once they get whatever mess the coalition leaves. But the end goal is FTTP to the majority of the population, like it should be.

          At some point I am sure they will go into greater detail but at this point, it’s still better than the coalition policy.

    • “where target rollout predictions in the end were about half of what they had originally estimated.”
      Are you – for the 7th time, and presumably will continue to go unanswered – saying that Labor had changed their rollout plans to only provide 46.5% of Australians with FTTP?

      “The time frame and revised costing for all of that.”
      1. They’ve already said yes to this. Pay attention.
      2. They’ve already said yes to this. Pay attention.
      3. They’ve already said no to this. Pay attention.

    • @Alain

      “Interesting that Labor and the Greens criticise the Coalition MtM model while not actually having any NBN policy of their own as yet”

      As opposed to the policy of “”demolish” the NBN”? I find it refreshing for a politician (Clare) to actually try and make an informed decision on engineering rather than just the political bluster we have seen from the current government. Lets face it, either Turnbull and Abbott were extremely uninformed (implying total incompetence), or they were wildly reckless in their “me, me, me” approach to the telecom sector.

    • “Interesting that Labor and the Greens criticise the Coalition MtM model while not actually having any NBN policy of their own as yet, specifying what plans they have to fix the ‘problem’ post election win later this year.”

      A valid point. Labor has refused to say what its NBN policy for the election is (not that it will win the election, based on current polling and Bill Shorten being Bill Shorten). And the Greens have largely abdicated the space, with Scott Ludlam and the others commenting very little on NBN policy in recent times.

      • “And the Greens have largely abdicated the space, with Scott Ludlam and the others commenting very little on NBN policy in recent times.”

        Can you give us any insight on why that is the case? I know Snr Ludlum was hard at work on Data Retention whilst you were working with him, but his relative silence on the NBN was puzzling, particularly because you were working with him.

        • To be fair I think Greens supporters expect their party to have a higher profile on what the Greens are about, the environment, climate change, people in detention centres treatment etc, rather than the NBN.

          To say they have vacated the NBN space is more about their policy priorities with limited resources and parliamentary representation are elsewhere if they want to hang onto existing seats and gain more.

          • Or maybe they know its’ not going to be reported by main stream media. A bit like yelling into an empty tunnel…..

      • Why bother with a NBN policy considering the polls indicate its already a lost cause?
        In any case we don’t yet have an election date & with the amount of redacted info withheld on the current state of Turnbull’s MTMess how on Earth could anyone formulate a policy other than trying to pick up the pieces once the full extent of their demolition efforts became evident following a LNP defeat.
        What with their climbing 56B MTM blowout adding to the “Budget Emergency” & dismal economic outlook for the year ahead, perhaps an affordable tin cans & string alternative will suffice?

          • Interesting, so you are quite happy to make up your own b.s. (Liberal party approved of course) but when some one else stretches the truth you take issue.

            Sad, very sad!

          • Lets just do as the Coalition did pre-2013 election and call it $120B eh?

            Because facts don’t matter anymore… well to others.

            Tell us again about the $667B debt that was left…

    • @r MTM a done deal. As posted months ago FW, Sat, FTTH, FTTB & HFC embraced by industry and the majority. The fanboys left arguing the 30% FTTN.

      Their claims CAN will cost tens of billions, Telstra won’t sell it, 2-3 new power stations required, opex differential larger than fibre capex, won’t work on Austrlian copper widths, rollout no faster, transist capacity constrained (2gbps), etc all destroyed by realworld trials (ignoring prior overseas experiences).

      Next election Greens will be talking fibre to everyone (cost irrelevant), labour FTTH in FTTN areas. They’ll dust off the discredited original CPs claiming the fibre rollout still on budget and on time. The media cheerleaders will cheer.

      Innovation policy from all will be how much bigger govt spend will need to be (for amazingly little return). They’ll talk up the csiro few contribution (ignoring the low value for $1b a year) whilst writing them a bigger cheque. They’ll talk IT in schools (where the current syllabus and teacher quality is so poor we’re going backward despite doubling in real expenditure). They’ll all talk the university sector, exploding without capped places leading to exploding student HECS debt without growing number of job requiring the often poor qualification.

      They’ll all talk higher taxes, strangling the productive private sector and transferring their money to the inefficient public sector. Worked for the US right? trillion dollar deficits, debt above 100% gdp, male workforce participation rate lowest since wwii, etc. what could go wrong;-)

      • Richard your logic doesn’t stack up, quoting Turnbull (fibre is the end game) regardless of your arguments the simple fact is that all these systems will eventually be replaced with fibre. The only one of these systems you won’t have to rebuild is FTTH. All the rest will have to be replaced one day and properly one day very soon. You say it will cost billions more but what about the billions in lost revenue, we could start with the 7.1% return and heavens knows what the eventual cost to the Australian economy will be in lost revenue.

        • Makes you wonder why Comcast USA’s largest internet provider is bothering to update its extensive HFC infrastructure to DOCSIS 3.1, or why BT the largest internet provider in the UK is trialing G.Fast in many areas on their extensive UK wide FTTN network.

          But hey what would two of the worlds largest communications companies operating in a fiercer competitive infrastructure and ISP retail environment than Australia will ever experience know about gaining and retaining customers?

          BTW the 7.1% return is redundant.

          • Completely ignoring the simple fact that the Comcast HFC network has prolly paid for itself multiple times over already!

          • Structurally they are totally different and after you read about them I would suspect the majority of Australians wouldn’t want their government businesses to follow in the foot steps of BT or Comcast. NBN was step up to encourage competition not kill it.

            NBN is a national wholesale-only, open-access data network NBN is a wholly-owned Commonwealth company – a Government Business Enterprise.

            BT is a holding company, Openreach is its retail outlet.

            Most of BT’s profits are generated by its Openreach subsidiary, which controls the UK’s ‘last mile’ copper infrastructure. Since 2005, BT have been accused of abusing their control of Openreach, particularly by UNDERINVESTING in the UK’s broadband infrastructure, charging high prices and providing poor customer service. The UK’s telecoms regulator Ofcom is currently investigating whether to order BT to sell Openreach, and is expected to report in January 2016.

            Comcast is a Cable TV company they are locked in, their only avenue for upgrade is DOCSIS 3.1. Retailer and more

            The company’s customer satisfaction often ranks among the LOWEST in the cable industry. Comcast has violated net neutrality practices in the past; and, despite Comcast’s commitment to a narrow definition of net neutrality, critics advocate a definition of which precludes distinction between Comcast’s private network services and the rest of the Internet. Critics also point out a LACK OF COMPETITION in the vast majority of Comcast’s service area; there is LIMITED COMPETITION among cable providers. Given Comcast’s negotiating power as a large ISP, some suspect that Comcast could leverage paid peering agreements to unfairly influence end-user connection speeds.

            7.1% return is redundant, thanks to Turnbull.

        • @mk revenue & opex modelled the other day, doesn’t come close to to capex. HFC returns outstanding, FTTB successfully eliminating Quigleys 30% of non-servicible premises.

          Turnbull can say whatever he likes, I’ve never argued fibre is the end point. Even if earlier rollout (revenue), half capex, fibre closer to households and the time value of money can still make it cheaper.

          Again fixed line premises would be complete today if Conroy didn’t insist on fibre (and fail to deliver it).

          The 7% IRR is rubbish, pointed out at the time. Revenue below forecast, costs much above. The old CPs have been destroyed.

          • Well Richard we would have had FTTP if it wasn’t for the private sector.

            But then considering that the MTM is taking just as long as the original FTTP plan it wouldnt have been completed today.

          • @jk we could’ve had FTTP? MTM is taking just as long?

            You’d be embarrassed if you didn’t know so little.

          • Well Richard Telstra did have a plan back in 1991 for FTTP by 2010.

            FTTP complete by 2021 MTM complete by 2020. But then the rollout is getting slower and slower. What was it complete by the end of the year oh wait your critic was that it was ambitious. SR 4.5M connected by the end of the year CP16 now only 2.5M connected by the end of the year.

            But then your embassed one numbers man that the MTM cost almost as much as FTTP.

          • @jk a plan did they?

            Quigley had two (and tens of billions of taxpayers cash). How was that rollout going;-)

            Again anyone else would be embarrassed. Given up expecting anything else.

          • Richard for that modelling etc I hope you didn’t use the same accountant that said MTM would only cost 29B and it blew out to 56B.

          • @R Turnbull it upto no 3 how is that rollout going.

            Anyone else would be embarrassed yes they would Richard when the current CP figures are closer to Quigley figures than the SR. But then you have to support it as the policy you could have written your self which they are not even following any more.

            Again how close does the MTM have to be to there own figures for FTTP before using existing tech is a joke. Remember best available figures are only $8B more would you agree. Just comparing apple with apples.

            But then you being numbers man fell for the $74B-$84B

          • “The 7% IRR is rubbish, pointed out at the time. Revenue below forecast, costs much above.”
            You’re right. By your own figures, if FTTP was allowed to continue rolling out, it would have provided 11% and if it was going according to Labors estimated schedule it would have provided 300%. Of course because the rest of the MTM rollout is a money sink the company is now failing to provide a return at all.

          • MikeK,

            ‘you didn’t use the same accountant that said MTM would only cost 29B and it blew out to 56B.’

            You need to change your accountant, it hasn’t blown out to $56B.

          • Yes it has. Malcolm Turnbull himself admitted it had blown out by an extra $15 billion to $56 billion.
            What rock have you been living under?

          • Richard and alain, love your work…

            You guys remind me of another dynamic duo, let me think..

            That’s it… Dumb and Dumber…

            Please feel free to choose between yourselves whom wears which hat, because to us (well me anyway) you are both equally deserved…of the er tag

            You’re welcome.

          • Knowbody,

            Malcolm Turnbull himself admitted it had blown out by an extra $15 billion to $56 billion.


  6. >>“We need to be more innovative at every level.<<

    Not least in our ability to select a government.

  7. HC,

    ‘Australia was rolling out a nationwide fibre telecommunications network that would have saved time and money’

    A rollout estimated to cost between $74B -$84B with a finish date of 2026-2028 is saving time and money?

    ” Internationally if people are not laughing now they will be in years to come.’

    So they will be laughing at the USA, UK, Austria, Germany and France as well?

    ” Some comments already expressing dismay at the politically motivated clusterfuck.”

    They have?

    ” At the very least we’ve shown the rest of the world what shouldn’t be done.”

    But not those countries that are rolling out a communications MtM model I take it?

    • Alain aka Reality (there’s some cognitive dissonance if I ever saw it) sprouting partisan BS as usual – back under your Bridge Troll!

    • 1. $74 billion is the claimed cost to revert to FTTP, not cost of not messing it up in the first place.
      2. The cost of the MTM was $30 billion, then it was $40 billion, then it was $50 billion. Every step along the way Turnbull was “absolutely confident” he had his figures correct. They cannot get within 50% when they are costing their own plan. The idea of taking them seriously when costing an alternative plan that they are politically opposed to is ridiculous.

      And in case anyone asks, no, I have no idea how much any either plan will really cost. However it is perfectly clear that most new investment in the rest of the world is in fiber.

    • Lol Reality
      “A rollout estimated to cost between $74B -$84B with a finish date of 2026-2028 is saving time and money?”
      Which only counts if they had to restart the rollout of FTTP.

      So in reality if they had continued rolling FTTP could have done it for between $64B-$71B and a finished date of 2023-2024

      • Really Reality
        It should be now FTTP of $44B complete by 2021 vs MTM $56B complete by 2020 which is better lol

          • So reality so the MTM going to be more than $56B lol but reality morrow admits that they don’t know the cost of they had continued and from the CP16 the SR figures are incorrect so the last know figures for if the bad continue. Ist then come from cp13.


    • “A rollout estimated to cost between $74B -$84B”
      The estimation was <$40b. Pay attention.

      As a reminder, we're now up to $56b on an inferior garbage network plus god only knows how much in remediation and maintenance costs over the coming years.

      “So they will be laughing at the USA, UK, Austria, Germany and France as well?”
      Aren’t literally ALL of those places rolling out FTTP now?

      • Hotcakes,

        “Aren’t literally ALL of those places rolling out FTTP now?”

        Yes and so is the NBN Co in Australia, that’s what MtM is.

        • No Reality Australia has stopped rolling out FTTP and will only do so if the copper can’t supply an upto 25Mbps service which is what the min to call an Internet broadband in the USA.

          So in 5 but prob be more years when they complete this poor service we will be delivering a service that the USA now calls is a min broadband great value this $56B

          Being 5 years behind the rest of the world what innovation would come here or stay here.

          • Actially, I think if the FTTN service doesn’t meet specs, they’ll just bump people onto the already oversubscribed satellite service.
            You know, the one Malcolm Turnbull said we didn’t need and couldn’t cancel in time.

          • Your introduced point, you list them, don’t forget greenfield FTTP is Coalition policy as well.

          • Reality:
            “don’t forget greenfield FTTP is Coalition policy as well”
            Meanwhile the actual Reality is that Telstra is still rolling out a new copper MTM in some greenfields.

  8. If Labor hadn’t cocked up the NBN rollout, and their time in government in general, we wouldn’t be having this inane conversation yet again. Ugh.

    • Labor made a couple of mistakes with the NBN that much is true (POI’s & Prime Contractor model), however they pale into insignificance compared with the charlie foxtrot that the Libs have created!

      • Imagine if the NBN was never started.
        Liberals would have never started one it goes against everything they are.

        • There would have been at least two more schemes to pour hundreds of millions in to Singaporean business under the guise of wifi networks that never get completed due to contract loopholes by now.

  9. TurnBull will go down in history , to always be remembered for 2 x things , knifing the current leader of the country – the leader of his own party in the back & taking his job & ruining the largest infrastructure project Australia has ever seen & likely to see & replace it with an outdated – money wasting third world country ‘upgrade’ to Internet .
    For doing this he will never get my vote – EVER .
    As useless as Turned Tits on a Bull , you are a joke Mal , complete Joke ……

    • For Christ’s sake, I’m so tired of this “knife in the back nonsense”.

      Tony Abbott was Prime Minister. So what. Nobody elected him to be Prime Minister. He was elected as an MP. Once an MP, he became part of a smaller electorate called the Parliamentary Liberal Party, which, as was their right, appointed him to be their Leader, replacing Turnbull. Once they’d won the election, being the Leader made him PM. Frankly, there’s nothing sacred about that.

      As Leader of the Parliamentary Liberal Party, he was required to meet their expectations. Remember that he only got the job because he “knifed Turnbull in the back”, or, to use a rather calmer tone of voice, defeated him in a party ballot. For heaven’s sake, how else do you expect people to get the job?

      The only difference between Turnbull and Abbott is that, at the time that the Parliamentary Liberal Party exercised their right to replace their Leader, their party was actually in government.

      And as far as the NBN fuck-up is concerned, Turnbull, while guilty, can’t carry the can alone. He was, after all, appointed the job of wrecking it, and supported in it, by Abbott.

  10. compilation videos are the answer, Turnbull is too quick on his feet in an interview or debate, he will spin lies on the fly , reframe his former claims so that they appear to say something completely different and leverage figures from an entirely different context or timeframe than is actually being discussed.

    we need people with the means to nab every clip they can, get him calling Fibre on demand for 3 to 5 thousand dollars as ‘labor scare campaign’ and then cut in a clip of someone who has applied for it and seen ridiculous cost now, 600 bucks or so to FIND OUT if you can get it prior to potentially 15000 bucks.

    punchy powerpoint style slides need to have citations at the bottom (which are hyperlinks from the youtube video) prior to cutting to Mal distorting the facts and we have to include dates to contrast actual rollout rates not premises-post-fluro-vest-day figures that Mal wants the public to compare.

    I campaigned in 2013, the NBN was one of the things I did so on, not for a particular party, just against the policies of the then Abbott led coalition and my materials were used by Labor and some with quite different party affiliations – I was really hoping that FTTP (which I was due to get not long after the election) would allow me to return in some capacity to my workplace pre disability. unfortunately I went off the schedule until this october, now down for FTTN by the end of 2017.
    I have no been able to afford to replace my busted desktop machine and don’t have the means to cut photos together, I have lost more cognition (brain inflammation) and now am worried that I havent managed to backup all my family photos because I’ve not a prayer of getting them into cloud storage with sub 1mbps up. in fact, I can’t utilise the video conferencing that 3 of my specialists use.

    this needs more savvy people who know their facts and figures, it can’t be like an Abbott gaffe compilation, Mal is really,really smart! make sure to include him telling journos who struck a nerve that they are essentially not able to ask decent questions but still have hope as they are so young. patronising !

    if anyone has the means, please consider it ?

  11. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) stated……
    Australia’s MOST needlessly wasteful spending took place under the John Howard-led Coalition government rather than under the Whitlam, Rudd or Gillard Labor governments.


    So what is history to make of this buffoon Turnbull, the person knowing damaging a nations future comms prosperity. We can lead the world but its people like Howard, Abbott and Turnbull that are destroying our future greatest for short term gain and they can’t even do that. In George Megalogenis book ‘The Australian Moment’ said (is Australia destined to greatness) the answer to that one is George, not as long as we keep electing people from the bottom of the barrel to the top job in Australia.

  12. Getting reports about the NBN (FTTN) in Bundaberg QLD, its been a disaster since it started on the 4th of December 2015. People that CAN get connected have recorded very poor speeds, worst than their original ADSL.

    • Lol wonder if they checked the pits and ducts from the flood they had little over a year ago

      • Wasn’t the last flood they had 2 years ago in 2013, their FTTN was constructed over the last 12 to 18 months so they can’t use the flood as an excuse.

      • @Richard, I’ve been following that forum well before 4th December because my daughter lives up that way. Some people are saying its good but a lot of reports have been very negative and there are other sites with complaints as well besides WP. But we won’t know the final outcome until everyone has been moved over to the NBN.

      • Imagin if the copper was kept in good condition. What was it 4 site visits to give someone 100Mbps.

      • “Seems they’ve had some big rain events as well.”
        Huh? Had some storms recently in Northgate, too and my FTTP hasn’t missed a beat.

  13. “Labor, Greens slam Turnbull hypocrisy: PM pumps innovation but ‘trashes’ NBN”

    This is an unavoidable reality for the PM. Under his previous role as Minister for Communications, the NBN was trashed. It was decimated in the name of political expediency. And it doesn’t matter whether Nick Ross was guilty of bias or not, the fact remains that what he did report on was true, the evidence was true, and the conclusions irrefutable.
    And it all supports the conclusion that Turnbull is guilty of gross hypocrisy and the destruction of national infrastructure in the name of political expediency. It will be his legacy. And the burden all Australians will have to bear for decades to come.

  14. Americans aren’t stupid! They have the innovation market cornered and Australia is one of their export markets.

    The major telcos are currently flat out removing copper networks and replacing them with fiber with the FCC’s blessing.

    It’s a wonder they even have time for the backwater noob!

    • The USA’s biggest internet supplier Comcast is even innovating with a DOCSIS 3.1 upgrade on their extensive HFC infrastructure.

      Not that sort of ‘They have the innovation market cornered’ I take it, apparently innovation is defined exclusively by FTTP when comes to fixed line infrastructure upgrades, because FTTP fans have decided nothing else applies.

      BTW Which major telco’s in the USA are you referring to?

      • How fast is that upload speeds reality on HFC can it do 1Gbps/1Gbps.
        But then why is the HFC getting a free upgrade and FTTN isn’t

        • What’s that got to do with the discussion about USA communication companies and upgrades to their infrastructure started by ‘Snow Crash’?

          Nothing whatever, because a rational answer is too awkward to counter with. (again)

          • You wanted to talk about innovation which requires upload.

            As a rational answer is too awkward for you to counter with.

          • ‘Back to Labor FTTP’ fans clinging desperately on to the good old days of 2007-2013 not coming to terms with the fact they never existed anyway fortunately don’t get to define what communications innovation is.

          • !!!Newsflash!!!: The Labor NBN Co doesn’t exist anymore.
            The FTTP built by Labor policy stopped in 2013.

            A new NBN Co was formed with a new CEO it then became FTTP built by Coalition policy both in fulfilling outstanding hangover brownfield contracts and ongoing green fields FTTP rollouts the latter of which is a key component of Coalition MtM policy.

            They also continued on with NBN satellite and wireless contracts, two other key components of MtM.

            I assume if Labor win later this year and they keep HFC with the upgrade to DOCSIS 3.1 and no change to FTTB and fulfill outstanding FTTN contracts we can expect the headline:

            ‘NBN results show Coalition plan is still working.’

          • News flash Reality how much of the MTM have been built so far that doesn’t count as labour policy. When is all this mass rollout of FTTN and HFC.

  15. “The NBN has been something of an eyesore for Turnbull since the Prime Minister released his flagship Innovation and Science Agenda in December last year.”

    Why cant they go hand-in-hand?

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