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  • News, Telecommunications - Written by on Monday, February 4, 2013 14:06 - 148 Comments

    “Below target”: Andrew Bolt slams NBN progress

    arrows missing target

    news Conservative commentator Andrew Bolt has continued his ongoing series of attacks on Labor’s flagship National Broadband Network project, claiming that the project is behind target and describing the way it accounts for having finished network construction in a given area as being “rubbery”.

    Last week the National Broadband Network Company released hard statistics showing the progress of the rollout and uptake of its network infrastructure during the three months to the end of 2012. When compared to the figures NBN Co released in October for the three-month period to the end of September, NBN Co’s updated statistics show that the company is still making only slow progress on its network rollout, despite the fact that it has stated that it has entered its rapid rollout phase of its network construction.

    For example, NBN Co’s statistics show the company only completed its network rollout to an additional 20,386 fibre premises in the three month period to the end of December. It added only an additional 4,042 new customers who are now using its fibre network in the three month period. Most of NBN Co’s overall gains came from its satellite service, which it did not construct itself. For its satellite services NBN Co leases capacity on existing satellites from existing providers.

    NBN Co also has a long way to go in terms of its rollout to meet its targets for the end of June this year. The company aims to have its fibre network covering some 341,000 premises by that period, with its satellite and wireless networks covering an additional 320,000 premises in total. The company aims to have some 54,000 active fibre customers at that point, and some 37,700 satellite and wireless customers. However, NBN Co has made the point that its rollout is not a “linear progression”, as it has entered the rapid ramp-up phase of its network construction and will finish connecting dramatically more premises in the near term period.

    In a post on his popular News Ltd blog last week, Bolt linked to an article published by the Sydney Morning Herald about the NBN’s progress. “For a scheme costing taxpayers $36 billion, you should expect better than still more delays,” he wrote. Bolt also noted that NBN Co defined premises as having been passed where cable has been laid in streets, but actual premises may not have been connected yet. “… note that the NBN targets have been made rubbery, requiring only that a cable be laid near a house, and not to it … We’re paying billions just for cables in the ground?” he added.

    It’s not the first time Bolt has taken aim at the NBN. In October last year, for example, the conservative commentator published a blog post arguing that a new development in wireless technology revealed that month could leave the Federal Government’s flagship National Broadband Network project looking like “the biggest white elephant in our history”. And in August last year, Bolt published a series of strongly worded blog posts arguing that the “gold-plated” National Broadband Network project was turning into the Federal Government’s “biggest financial disaster by far”.

    As one of the Federal Government’s highest-profile projects, the NBN has regularly come under fire from other conservative commentators as well, with critics such as Alan Jones regularly stating that they preferred wireless technology over the predominantly fibre-to-the-premise rollout of the NBN.

    opinion/analysis
    To what extent are Andrew Bolt’s comments here legitimate? Well, it depends on your context, because Bolt’s not really saying anything technically inaccurate.

    NBN Co and the Federal Government did set new targets for the network rollout over the past year or so. There were overriding reasons for this; principally, that reaching agreement to use Telstra’s network infrastructure and transfer the telco’s customers to the NBN took much longer (six months longer) than anyone expected, delaying the overall rollout of the NBN.

    From one point of view, this is understandable. After all, nobody has ever put together this kind of huge contract between an incumbent telco in Australia and a massive new government telecommunications monopoly intended to at least partially replace it. It’s a highly complex legal exercise, and it would have been very hard for anyone to estimate how long it would take. And this is the point of view I have predominantly taken in the past.

    However, on the other hand, if you look at Labor’s performance with the NBN since it took power in November 2007, or even since NBN Co was formed in mid-2009, in this kind of context it is a little hard for many people to understand why NBN Co has only succeeded in signing up 10,400 people to its network over that period, given the billions of dollars which are being ploughed into the network and the 1,700 staff the company has (plus the thousands more contractors which are deploying the NBN).

    NBN Co will need to radically ramp up its rollout over the next five months if it is to reach its mid-2013 target, and there are questions about whether it will be able to meet that target. In addition, Bolt is correct that there are questions about how NBN Co accounts for how many premises it has passed. After all, this is a company which prefers to focus on its”premises commenced or completed” statistic; a number formed mostly from paperwork construction orders; not actual construction efforts.

    Now, I’m not saying with this article that I agree with Bolt; far from it. As far as Bolt is concerned, as far as I can see, he believes the NBN is a great evil which isn’t worth pursuing as a project at all. Personally, I still feel that the NBN is the best telecommunications policy which Australia has ever had, and I strongly believe that it’s worth staying the course with this one.

    However, in the context of the slow delivery of this project, NBN Co making its head of construction redundant (after its first head of construction quit), the company’s increasing trend towards a lack of transparency in its operations and even location-specific issues such as the problems in Riverstone I am starting to believe that there are legitimate questions as to whether the project as a whole is being managed well. NBN supporters, right now, are increasingly being placed in a tough spot by NBN critics. There just isn’t a lot of evidence yet that the NBN is actually delivering on its promises; on the other hand, NBN critics such as Bolt are able to present increasing amounts of evidence that the NBN isn’t delivering.

    The crux point for me will come over the next six months. If NBN can demonstrate continued, steady and reliable progress in its rollout and uptake over that period, as well as continued efforts towards transparency, then that will do much to answer the questions around the company’s ability to deliver. However, if NBN Co does not meet its goals, and its corporate transparency continues to head south, it may become difficult to approve of the company’s management.

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    1. quink
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:12 pm | Permalink |

      This is all you need to know about Andrew Bolt: http://grogsgamut.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/andrew-bolt-trends-towards-dodgy-graphs.html

      • Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:27 pm | Permalink |

        And that’s why I don’t read Grog’s Gamut. Death by graph.

        • quink
          Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink |

          What do you have against graphs?

          The best thing that can happen is data, data and more data, and if it’s visually prepared like this, then all the better. The excuse of not understanding graphs or being overwhelmed by them may float with your average Andrew Bolt audience (which is probably what the intent here was – the graphs don’t hold up for a second once someone with a minor clue looks at them), but ‘death by graph’ should never be the prevailing attitude, in a journalist least of all. And I also resent that the graphs are boring – they represent both a lot of data and something fairly significant.

          If, however, you mean that death to Andrew Bolt’s credibility (or what is left of it) will come by way of Grog’s Gamut’s graphs, then I certainly agree with that sentiment, little true as it will be.

          • Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:59 pm | Permalink |

            I don’t have anything against graphs, however there should not be more graphs than paragraphs in a piece of writing, which is what Grog’s Gamut tends to do.

            • Hubert Cumberdale
              Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:11 pm | Permalink |

              “however there should not be more graphs than paragraphs in a piece of writing, which is what Grog’s Gamut tends to do.”

              I’d like to see a graph (preferably a pie) to determine if this is actually true or not.

    2. Daniel
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:13 pm | Permalink |

      I still don’t know what the fuss is about.

      The sooner we get rid of the copper, the better place NBN will be.

      Political and media interests is all that it is, against the public interest.

    3. paul grenfell
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:15 pm | Permalink |

      urghh. For a start not costing taxpayers a cent if completed.

    4. Hubert Cumberdale
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:20 pm | Permalink |

      “For a scheme costing taxpayers $36 billion, you should expect better than still more delays”

      Sounds to me like bolt is arguing in favor of a FttP network. He just wants it done faster (understandable, more people on fibre sooner is important). See I knew it, if you educate the dummies eventually they’ll see the light, for someone like bolt that is an achievement. Perhaps he can now go on an educate his readers too.

      • tinman_au
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:33 pm | Permalink |

        At least he seem to be agreeing that it’s $36B and not $70B now :/

    5. ET
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:21 pm | Permalink |

      Andrew Bolt. Whinging whining PITA. I for one am sick of being exposed to his verbal vomit.

    6. tinman_au
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:32 pm | Permalink |

      “Andrew Bolt slams NBN progress” is like saying “The sky is blue”. I prefer Alan Jones, at least he talks about lasers!!1

      • Daniel
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:44 pm | Permalink |

        Doesn’t mean he’s a sci-fi fan or a fibre fan.

    7. Stephen
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:52 pm | Permalink |

      Why are you giving him the oxygen? He’s uninformed and rabidly partisan and should simply be ignored.

      • Paul Thompson
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:58 pm | Permalink |

        Agreed.

        I didn’t read the article, instead I skipped to the comments to request that Bolt is no longer given any mindspace on this site.

    8. Tectonic shift
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 2:55 pm | Permalink |

      For a plan agreed hurriedly in an aeroplane,essentially to avenge a non compliant Testra CEO; FAILURE was always writ large. Who in today’s world, would spend taxpayers money upwards of $40 billion, without a productivity analysis, without including wireless& leaving it off the Nation’s balance sheet ? Only the barking mad !
      The Bolt haters live in denial. The white elephant is proving, by the month, to be nothing else. Forget the statistics of ‘passing houses’. Means absolutely nothing unless people hook up & to date the take-up rate will never feed the elephant. It looms as a financial disaster and heavy losses must be mitigated by the next Govt.

      • Hubert Cumberdale
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:06 pm | Permalink |

        “Means absolutely nothing”

        What I got from your comment. Thanks for stopping by.

      • GongGav
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:45 pm | Permalink |

        I’m not intolerant of Bolt, I’m intolerant of the ignorant who bluntly refuse to recognise facts, then use mistruths to try and ‘prove’ their point as if its some self fulfiling prophecy.

        You’re a case in point. Lets break it down:

        “For a plan agreed hurriedly in an aeroplane” — Bzzzt, try again. Basics were discussed on a plane, because Conroy couldnt get scheduled time with Rudd and that was the only time they could discuss the issue at length. Details came later, and only after considerable discussion with independant professionals.

        “…would spend taxpayers money upwards of $40 billion…” — again, bzzzt, try again. Its not taxpayers money. Its underwritten by the Government, but thats not the same as spending by the Government. I’ll give you a tip though.

        There are costs to the Liberals plan they arent mentioning, like buying the copper from Telstra. Thats independantly been valued at something like $12b…

        “Forget the statistics of ‘passing houses’” — Why forget them? Its a perfectly valid indication of how the project is going, as is the commenced figure. Its part of the picture.

        Just because it doesnt suit the plans of some people doesnt make them any less valid.

        “to date the take-up rate will never feed the elephant” — to date the private sector has failed to deliver. To date the upkeep of the copper lines has been nothing short of disasterous. To date this, to date that.

        How about realising that the take up rate will, by contractual agreement, automatically ‘feed the elephant’, as you put it. Telstra transfers their own clients, and some 18 months down the track, transfers everyone elses.

        Take-up rate is predicted to be 70%, which is a conservative estimate given its the only wholesale provider people can connect to. On top of that, if any of the remaining 30% want a home phone, they are going to be connecting to the NBN as well. More guaranteed income.

        “It looms as a financial disaster and heavy losses must be mitigated by the next Govt” — how is it a financial disaster? Funding through bonds = no budget issues. Future guarantees of income gives pretty solid estimates of profit (which not even the Liberals have questioned), which means consistent and regular income.

        Meanwhile, the Liberals plan involves undoing that, and having all its costs on budget. How much worse will it be when the Liberal plan, costing $15b to $30b (on top of whats been spent) DOES go on budget?

        Any financial disaster or heavy loss to be mitigated by the Liberals will be through their own doing when they dismantly the infrastructure built to make the NBN cost neutral.

        You come here blathering about Bolt haters, and try to use tired old arguments to make some point. The reality is, every point you try to make is wrong, and you only look like an ignorant fool in attempting to make them.

        How stupid do you think Liberal voters will feel when their prophecy is fulfilled because Abbott makes it happen. Not Labor, but Abbott. If the rules dont change, ANY costs with the NBN are off budget, dont come out of taxpayer funding, and pay themselves off over time.

        How can that possibly be worse than an investment cost they have no intention of reducing? Whether the Liberal plan costs $15b or $30b, its money thats gone forever. How is that a good thing?

        It will be Abbott’s changes to the NBN Co rules and plans that will force the costs onto budget, and it will be his changes to the NBN Co rules and plans that strip away all the protections a wholesale monopoly gives.

        Explanations given for every argument. Counter them, if you will, or continue to be ignorant of what the Liberal plan will really mean to Australia. Labor’s NBN costs $40b to build, with a plan to return that money. Liberal plan will cost $30b, with no plan to return that money. $30b out of the budget versus $0 out of the budget.

        Or just answer that overriding question – how does $30b on budget thats never repaid work out better than $40b off budget that does get repaid?

    9. Karl
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:00 pm | Permalink |

      “To what extent are Andrew Bolt’s comments here legitimate? Well, it depends on your context, because Bolt’s not really saying anything technically inaccurate.”
      Is this some kind of joke? He claims NBN Co is behind target when they aren’t (targets from the 2010 plan are not relevent; how can they be behind a target they are no longer aiming at?), and he claims the taxpayer is paying for the rollout. These are both clear lies.

      He also repeats Turnbull’s claim that they are behind on take-up, but as far as I can see from the corporate plan, their take-up target for end of 2012 is 14,000 out of 213,000 passed (a percentage of 6.6 not 13.8), and of course they have beaten both of those. (Page 61)

      • Karl
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:03 pm | Permalink |

        My mistake, those targets on page 61 seem to be from June 2012 (they met those). Where in the corporate plan can you see targets for the end-of-year?

    10. midspace
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:06 pm | Permalink |

      In the news. Andrew Bolt’s comments are below target.

      Perhaps instead of whinging, he should get out and help!
      He sounds so negative, perhaps he’s Tony’s cousin.

    11. Teddy
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:20 pm | Permalink |

      I keep coming back to same thing re; NBN. Why wouldn’t you start in Sydney or Melbourne or even a major Regional centre. These people (NBN Co) are not serious, it’s not thier money and face no recriminations for wasting it. I think NBN is a good thing just very, very very poorly managed.

      • Daniel
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:29 pm | Permalink |

        Making it Sydney or Melbourne would make it worse than it already is, it is populated cities and lots of traffic.

        That is one reason why they didn’t do those populated area’s first.

        The second thing, is commentators would say the exact same thing, regardless if the NBN progress was ahead of the rollout.

        They can get away with lying no one is going to take them to court over it.

      • elephant
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:30 pm | Permalink |

        The roll out is pork barrelling. No operations logic.

        Buy a vote with fast porn downloads

        • Daniel
          Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:44 pm | Permalink |

          Actually that’s not really true – movies are biggest sector and it’s only just behind Porn downloads:

          http://blogs.westword.com/backbeat/2011/02/study_shows_music_piracy_on_th.php

          That was in 2011.

          Also, A recent study shows that people buy legit when they have downloaded via piracy:
          http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/16/file_sharers_buy_more_music/

          So Broadband is good idea and not wasteful of tax payers money, as it increases the profit of private enterprises.

          • elephant
            Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:11 pm | Permalink |

            Dan – I am fully aware of the studies that point towards users prefering to pay for legitimate timely downloads when a “fair” price is offered.

            If roll out was to minimise expense and maximise early profit a roll out in a denser population centre would have been cheaper and had a much larger early return.

            I do not disagree with faster internet is better than slower internet; however, I disagree with the roll out being monopoly V private enterprise. TransACT wasn’t a federally owned company.

            • quink
              Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:53 pm | Permalink |

              > If roll out was to minimise expense and maximise early profit a roll out in a denser population centre would have been cheaper and had a much larger early return.

              Maybe the NBN isn’t about maximising return, but about getting broadband out there in an equitable way, with the wireless deployment done by 2015.

              Check out this page here: http://www.nbnco.com.au/rollout/about-the-rollout/communities-in-the-rollout.html

              And you’ll see plenty of places near Sydney and Melbourne.

            • Hubert Cumberdale
              Posted 04/02/2013 at 5:15 pm | Permalink |

              “TransACT wasn’t a federally owned company.”

              TransACT also failed to produce a timetable outlining the coverage of the rest of Australia with fibre.

      • tinman_au
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:36 pm | Permalink |

        “Why wouldn’t you start in Sydney or Melbourne or even a major Regional centre.”

        Places like Townsville and Armadale aren’t large regional centres?? Someone should let them know!

        Also, why start the build in places like Sydney and Melbourne who arguably already have multiple connection options? The brief for NBN is to bring fast broadband to places that can’t/don’t have it yet, not just the major centres.

        • alain
          Posted 05/02/2013 at 9:52 am | Permalink |

          ‘Also, why start the build in places like Sydney and Melbourne who arguably already have multiple connection options?’

          Also if you do that you run the risk of people not connecting which is not a good look for a Nation Building, State of the Art, Visionary project that everyone needs.

          • tinman_au
            Posted 05/02/2013 at 11:43 am | Permalink |

            The only reason you wouldn’t connect is if, like me, you can only get Telstra in your area.

            I know some areas have a glut of choice (lucky them), but theres also many more (even metro) areas that will only see real competition once the NBN roll in…

            • tinman_au
              Posted 05/02/2013 at 11:49 am | Permalink |

              Try that again: The reason you would connect as soon as possible is if, like me, you can only get Telstra in your area. The other reasons don’t apply so much if you can already get decent broadband at affordable rates/speeds/data caps…people seem to think decent broadband is already pervasive in Australia…it isn’t.

              • alain
                Posted 05/02/2013 at 1:08 pm | Permalink |

                But even resold Telstra Wholesale ADSL2+ is competitive between ISP’s, it’s a bit glib to say that when NBN is active in a Telstra ADSL2+ only area they will get 100% take-up because everyone is just itching to get off Telstra retail or Wholesale.

                • tinman_au
                  Posted 05/02/2013 at 2:18 pm | Permalink |

                  Do you understand that not everyone lives next to an exchange Alain? That it’s actually pretty common, for various reasons, that people can’t get ADSL2+?

    12. elephant
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:28 pm | Permalink |

      The NBN is the tax payers mosy galactic waste of money. Commercially viable alternatives could have been rolled out by business and only cost the tax payer at the point of use.

      The cost of connecting to the NBN and using it is so over the top as pricing is now I can see no reason to use it.

      Wast of time waste of money.

      On top of that – the NBN has forced commercial to not roll out its networks and people have been left in the dark.

      • Daniel
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:30 pm | Permalink |

        That’s all false and you have stated no fact.

        • elephant
          Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:00 pm | Permalink |

          Telstra NBN prices from their web site – 5GB download @ 12Mbps = $80/mth. The same plan on ADSL 2 is $30/mth.

          That is not a competatitive price option for anyone and will not see too many people take up NBN.

          • Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:08 pm | Permalink |

            I can cherry pick data too you know. So can everyone here. You’re not fouling anyone.

            • elephant
              Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:18 pm | Permalink |

              Thanks Night – that was literally the first comparison I found. I admit to not placing any vigour on that analysis; however, Bigpond does have a large customer base. So whether they reprsent ALL ISPs or not shows that there pricing has a disproportionate effect on peoples ISP purchasing habits

              • tinman_au
                Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:30 pm | Permalink |

                Once I can get the NBN, I’ll pay almost half what I do now, for basically double the plan (download cap and speed). Thats switching from Bigpond to….well, just about any other RSP.

                The best thing (for me) about the NBN is I’ll finally be able to switch from Telstra (which is the only company I can connect to in my area currently).

                Bring on the competition!!

                • alain
                  Posted 05/02/2013 at 9:55 am | Permalink |

                  You can do that now on ADSL2+ Plans from ISP’s that have their own DSLAM’s or using Naked DSL a product BigPond does not sell.

                  • tinman_au
                    Posted 05/02/2013 at 11:51 am | Permalink |

                    If I could get ADSL2+….that’d be terrific ;)

                    Considering I live pretty well in the middle of Australia’s 6th largest city, that just goes to show how crap our current infrastructure actually is really…

              • NPSF3000
                Posted 04/02/2013 at 5:22 pm | Permalink |

                “Thanks Night – that was literally the first comparison I found. I admit to not placing any vigour on that analysis…”

                So you *deliberately* decided to do the *least* amount of research possible?

                And you want to be taken seriously?

                This just in – a kettle never boils! I looked at it for a full 5 seconds and proved the case!

              • Posted 04/02/2013 at 5:37 pm | Permalink |

                I admit to not placing any vigour on that analysis

                Clearly. For one thing you have to consider that the quoted Telstra ADSL2 plan provided is a bundled plan, meaning you have to pay for a phone line to access at those prices. This is clearly evident if you look at the terms.

                Minimum cost based on broadband plan with HomeLine® Plus for one month and self-install Home Network Gateway ($83.90/mth + $192 for modem + $48 activation fee for new BigPond broadband customers).

                So in fact, in the minimum price entry according to Telstra it will actually cost you $3.9/m less to be on the 5GB NBN plan.

                This trend continues when you go to the 200GB and 500GB options, with these being $23.90/m and $13.90/m cheaper respectively. This is particularly relevent that when you consider the upgrade to 100Mbps is $20, thus you can get 100Mbps 200GB plan for $3.90/m more than an ADSL2+. To get such an upgrade will cost you $10 more on their Cable services, i.e. $133.90/m.

                Of course you can get phone less plans as well, which does in fact can work out cheaper than the NBN plans (which you cannot seem to get without phone service).

                • Posted 04/02/2013 at 5:47 pm | Permalink |

                  Apologises, it seems there are “naked” options for the NBN as well. It seems we’re both suffering from non vigorous analysis. However, the point still stands, your quick glance was hardly sufficient.

          • Daniel
            Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:24 pm | Permalink |

            LOL 5GB for $80 a month, you can get 1tb for less than that.

          • SMEMatt
            Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:41 pm | Permalink |

            Wow considering the comments about cherry picking “facts”; you are not even comparing like with like from the same provider. Lets take a look at “Telstra/Bigpond”.
            Telstra 200gb 12mb NBN plan is $100 including phone connection
            Bigpond 200gb ADSL2+ plan is $69.95 + phone if you contract for the broadband benefit (~$30 for the phone service) that looks about the same as the $100 plan.

            Now the 5gb is a bit cheaper when contracted with a phone but the compassing is $60 vs $80.
            Of course if you went with any other provider the comparison is in favor of the NBN with prices being the same on 12mb connections (or cheaper in some cases) with no requirement for that phone line. Of course other providers also offer Naked ADSL plans these are more expensive than the NBN plans.

            • tinman_au
              Posted 05/02/2013 at 11:53 am | Permalink |

              That’s kinda the point of the NBN, the NBN will offer people a choice, the current system doesn’t.

          • quink
            Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:48 pm | Permalink |

            Also, those $80 at Telstra for NBN include home phone and all local calls and a free T-Gateway.

            For ADSL Bigpond Elite 5GB, we get $29.95 plus $22.95 for the phone line, is $52.90, for no T-Gateway and 20 GB less.

            If you’d actually look at the NBN broadband plans, it’s $60 for 25 GB, includes home phone (but no calls) and a T-Gateway.

            I think that’s worth $7.10.

            Apples and Oranges.

      • Karl
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:39 pm | Permalink |

        You’ll want to read the comments policy (linked at the top of the page). Delimiter is a place for people who want to deal in facts, not partisan lies.

      • paul grenfell
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:42 pm | Permalink |

        Nbn not being paid for by taxes, but by users. Wholesale sales. Prices to consumers equal or less than adsl.

      • Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:44 pm | Permalink |

        “The NBN is the tax payers mosy galactic waste of money”

        Galactic??

        Galactic??

        Seriously?

        That’s a new high for hyperbole. I am pretty sure there have been bigger wastes of money in the galaxy to date. I mean, I haven’t been privy to them, as our puny species hasn’t gotten much outside our solar system yet, but I’m sure they’re out there.

        • NBNAccuracy
          Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:16 pm | Permalink |

          You brought this one yourself Renai. You mention Bolte now his horde of brain dead zombie followers have decended on you. Hey, it will be good for some advertising hits and some giggles though.

          • Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:22 pm | Permalink |

            It’s up to you guys to defeat them with the powers of rationality and reason :)

            • tinman_au
              Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:32 pm | Permalink |

              That’s the problem though Renai, Bolt fans…er, sorry “readers”, are faith based, not fact based…

              • midspace
                Posted 05/02/2013 at 8:54 am | Permalink |

                Use the Force Lu—

              • midspace
                Posted 05/02/2013 at 8:55 am | Permalink |

                FTTN is not the national broadband solution you are looking for.

                Move along. Move along.

            • NBNAccuracy
              Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:40 pm | Permalink |

              But they are immune to facts or other form of reality? What can we do?
              Ahhh, we could use the Coalition method of gaining their support.

              The NBN Rulz, The NBN Rulz, The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz,The NBN Rulz

              Repeated enough it becomes truth regardless of facts.

              • andyrob
                Posted 04/02/2013 at 7:41 pm | Permalink |

                Nice!!!

                Exactly how MSM and LNP work. Throw enough mud and it sticks.

            • alain
              Posted 05/02/2013 at 9:43 am | Permalink |

              Bolts fans are not reading Delimiter.

              • tinman_au
                Posted 05/02/2013 at 11:55 am | Permalink |

                of course not, not enough “faith” `round here, and they get a rash from “facts”.

              • NBNAlex
                Posted 06/02/2013 at 7:15 pm | Permalink |

                @ alian

                “Bolts fans are not reading Delimiter.”

                Err… yes you are :)

                • tinman_au
                  Posted 06/02/2013 at 7:37 pm | Permalink |

                  *snicker*

        • Nobby6
          Posted 04/02/2013 at 6:21 pm | Permalink |

          Maybe the poster has it on good authority? maybe they have one of those special mobiles that calls “The Doctor” and asked him?

          :)

        • midspace
          Posted 05/02/2013 at 8:53 am | Permalink |

          There is an actual measurement for “Galactic waste of money”.

          http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=no-death-star-for-us-military

      • NBNAlex
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:35 pm | Permalink |

        @ elephant,

        1. “The NBN is the tax payers mosy galactic waste of money.”
        Incorrect “taxpayer” funds are not being used, this has been discussed many times.

        2. Commercially viable alternatives could have been rolled out by business and only cost the tax payer at the point of use.
        ” Yes they could have but “weren’t” which brings us to this point. Also refer to 1.

        3. The cost of connecting to the NBN and using it is so over the top as pricing is now I can see no reason to use it.”
        Total nonsense.

        4. “Wast of time waste of money.” In your opinion… an opinion which is based upon (having read all of your points so far) totally incorrect information.

        5. “On top of that – the NBN has forced commercial to not roll out its networks and people have been left in the dark.”
        Pure speculation… pre-NBN, the main ‘so called network competition’ was ISP’s placing their own DSLAMs in Telstra exchanges, accessing Telstra’s network… this is “not” rolling out networks.

        • alain
          Posted 05/02/2013 at 10:55 am | Permalink |

          @NBNAlex

          ‘Incorrect “taxpayer” funds are not being used, this has been discussed many times.’

          Just saying ‘this has been discussed many times’ doesn’t mean it is incorrect, what it means is yes it HAS been discussed many times but you ignore the bits you don’t want to see.

          ‘Pure speculation… pre-NBN, the main ‘so called network competition’ was ISP’s placing their own DSLAMs in Telstra exchanges, accessing Telstra’s network… this is “not” rolling out networks.’

          It’s the opposite of speculation it’s called fact, you also ignored HFC rollouts ,post NBN competitor networks will be shut down to ensure residences have no choice, which is a better definition of the elimination of network competition.

      • quink
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:42 pm | Permalink |

        > The cost of connecting to the NBN and using it is so over the top as pricing is now I can see no reason to use it.

        The cost of connecting is $0. The cost is, on Internode $79.95 for 300 GB ADSL and $69.95 on 12/1 NBN for 300 GB. iiNet? 200 GB for $59.95 on NBN, $59.95 on ADSL. When it comes to speeds that ADSL can’t offer, the NBN offers much, much better value. Apparently, and judging from your comment, ADSL also has pricing so over the top that you must still be using dialup. In which case, I’m quite glad that it took you about a minute or two to load this page and I congratulate your commitment.

      • quink
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 4:55 pm | Permalink |

        > Commercially viable alternatives could have been rolled out by business and only cost the tax payer at the point of use.

        Again, the taxpayer doesn’t pay for it. The user does. People who use the NBN pay for it. Not the taxpayer. The taxpayer doesn’t pay for the NBN. The people who use it do. People who sign up for a plan on the NBN pay a monthly fee. This fee is used to pay for the NBN. The taxpayers don’t pay for the NBN. No taxes are used to build or maintain the NBN. The NBN is being paid by the people who use it.

        • alain
          Posted 05/02/2013 at 9:40 am | Permalink |

          Which makes you wonder how all the rollout contractors and NBN staff are being paid, with Bond certificates?

          • RocK_M
            Posted 05/02/2013 at 10:19 am | Permalink |

            Now your just being fascetious =/

          • Brendan
            Posted 05/02/2013 at 12:47 pm | Permalink |

            alain,

            Do you have a point to make, or is this yet more obnoxious insinuation? Logic sir, where the hell is it?

          • NPSF3000
            Posted 05/02/2013 at 3:56 pm | Permalink |

            “Which makes you wonder how all the rollout contractors and NBN staff are being paid, with Bond certificates?”

            Hypothetically assuming that’s how it worked… it would actually work.

            I’m Sinclair or whoever is getting these billion dollar contracts would be surprised but happy to take payment in bonds – after all selling them for cash isn’t *that* complicated.

            • alain
              Posted 05/02/2013 at 4:40 pm | Permalink |

              Well the sell/buy price fluctuates, you had better get your timing right.

              :)

              • NBNAlex
                Posted 05/02/2013 at 5:39 pm | Permalink |

                Why don’t you tell us what you know about how this is occurring alain, I’m sure we can all wait 2 seconds while you tell us “absolutely everything” you know ;)

    13. Sold Trujilo
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:45 pm | Permalink |

      How much has Telstra cost? And we get crappy network speeds and lousy service…

      Compare how much Telstra has cost over the years and where it is at to how much NBN will cost and where it will get us to – who cares if it costs another $40 Billion…a pittance to pay I say to get Australia away from Dinosaur Telstra.

      ….super fast porn – WOOHOOO, bring it on! Are you REALLY going to object to that?

    14. KDE
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 3:52 pm | Permalink |

      NBN couldn’t start in Sydney or Melbourne.
      The Greens and Independents dictated where it would go first.
      That’s why Tasmania was first, New England second …
      Its all about politics ….

      • quink
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 5:02 pm | Permalink |

        Well, they had to start somewhere.

        But all in all, I think you will find that if you look at a grand total of two data points, you’re likely to find some bias. If you, however, look at the other data points, there’s no collective bias at all.

        Commenced construction in Carlton, Docklands, Brunswick, Tullamarine and Morang, with services available in some of those areas. In Sydney there’s Strathfield through to Auburn, Blacktown, Penrith, Riverstone, Richmond/South Windsor, as well as Wollongong and Gosford.

        If you have evidence of a general bias given dozens of data points, then by all means present it. But two data points just aren’t cutting it, especially when the argument is made based on *that* that the NBN should be cancelled, no matter the benefits it does bring to those regions :|

      • tinman_au
        Posted 05/02/2013 at 12:01 pm | Permalink |

        Actually, they started where the POI’s were, which was dictated by the ACCC.

        Your all about politics…

    15. Nobby6
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 6:18 pm | Permalink |

      ” it has entered its rapid rollout phase of its network construction.”

      wholly f#ck

      I’d hate to see the pace they roll out if they were a “go slow”

      maybe they can put more contractors on if they were not so TOP heavy in staff, and reduced the amount of TV adverts.

      • quink
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 6:33 pm | Permalink |

        WorkChoices cost $121 million in advertising over a fairly short period (and that’s before accounting for inflation since then).

        The government has budgeted for (and this part is using taxpayer money, as it’s the DBCDE that’s advertising, not NBN Co) about $20 million.

        And yes, NBN Co is top heavy on staff. That’s because they’re using contractors and have tenders and haven’t actually got much of a network to run quite yet.

      • NBNAlex
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 7:19 pm | Permalink |

        Perhaps the Coalition will simply hand the NBN over to OPEL… then we’ll see some fervent action…LOL

        • alain
          Posted 05/02/2013 at 9:35 am | Permalink |

          There was no action on OPEL because Labor gained power in 2007 and cancelled it, the comparison in cancelling previous Governments BB schemes come September is apt, meanwhile back to reading yesterdays Newspoll – oh dear.

          • midspace
            Posted 05/02/2013 at 11:35 am | Permalink |

            And the LNP will tear down and sell up NBNCo and all its assets, and we’ll be all back to square one.
            Paying astronomical amounts to Telstra for inadaquate broadband in urban areas, and with next to no access in rural areas.

          • tinman_au
            Posted 05/02/2013 at 12:05 pm | Permalink |

            yeah, and there weren’t any problems with OPEL before Labor came along, where there?

            http://www.theage.com.au/news/business/telstra-action-delays-1bn-rural-broadband-funding/2007/08/23/1187462438644.html

            • alain
              Posted 05/02/2013 at 12:33 pm | Permalink |

              Well I didn’t like the OPEL agreement either and criticised it at the time ( WI-Max for the masses lol) I was explaining WHY it went nowhere anyway and the similarity of what may happen in September when Governments change policy because they can.

    16. Nobby6
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 6:19 pm | Permalink |

      @NBNAlex

      “1. “The NBN is the tax payers mosy galactic waste of money.”
      Incorrect “taxpayer” funds are not being used, this has been discussed many times.”

      Yes, and you’ll wake up from your dream one day as well.

      • quink
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 6:30 pm | Permalink |

        Nicely reasoned rebuttal. On the one hand we have the entirety of the government and what is actually happening in reality right now and can be verified in a number of different ways with just a Google search, and on the other hand we’ve got you saying that we’re dreaming. What a convincing argument you’ve got there.

        Even if it were true, AND IT ISN’T, and NBN Co were to fall over and we’re left with a $20 billion black hole that can’t be repaid and must involve taxpayer money, what that would mean in practice is 26.25% tax as percentage of GDP instead of 26% for five years and we’ll have ubiquitous FTTH and an asset worth dozens of billions owned by taxpayers that can be sold off and lower the tax rate to 25.75% in return for the five years after that and still leave a big profit.

        Also try to read this: http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/how-are-we-paying-for-it/

      • NBNAlex
        Posted 04/02/2013 at 6:59 pm | Permalink |

        Hopefully you are right Nobby6…

        And when I awaken… from this dream of seeing my fellow Aussies being bigoted, vision-less, anti-NBN, political puppets… it will all have been a nightmare…

        Thank you.

        • Nobby6
          Posted 06/02/2013 at 1:40 pm | Permalink |

          @NBNAlex

          nah Alex, we have vision, but we also understand the concept of prioritisation,
          pitty the ALP didnt spend this much money, time, and energy fixing the homeless problem or looking after struggling families, I dont know what the parent pension is but I know they just cut it out, oops someone forget to tell juliar that single mums are voters too.

          and as for bigots? you only need to look at the failings of the recent marriage equality bills to see the only bigots round here are politicians, and not just Abbotts crowd either Juliars mob are just as bad, the majority of population in all polls and senate hearings are in favour (only nut jobs like the acl consider it a fate worse than death), but our dumb arse pollies yet again show how much power tripping they like by ignoring what hte people want, and are too scared to even add it as a referendum to this years fed election, coz, once again, they know best.

          as for political puppet? I am nobodies bitch :)

          • tinman_au
            Posted 06/02/2013 at 5:24 pm | Permalink |

            “as for political puppet? I am nobodies bitch :)”

            I can only agree, I can’t think of a single party that supports people sitting at home at taxpayer expense.

    17. nonny-moose
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 10:28 pm | Permalink |

      “… note that the NBN targets have been made rubbery, requiring only that a cable be laid near a house, and not to it … We’re paying billions just for cables in the ground?”

      unless im mistaken i think can identify at least one place where Bolt is wrong in this statement: NBNco has moved to a build drop format instead of a demand drop format. there are a couple of caveats to this, the first release will still be demand, and some of the second release sites will be able to have the NTU placed without seeking permission.

      but given the decision to go to build drop was ~Aug last year i suspect all new areas from this point are under the build drop model – it wont be ‘near’ a house, it is *to* it, and its not just ‘cables in the ground’ but a bit more infrastructure than that – specifically the NTU box the consumer will need to get into the network.

      but its Bolt, so the subtleties will be lost on him. as with ‘Lasers!’ Jones.

      http://www.commsday.com/commsday-australasia/nbn-returns-builddrop-fibre-rollout

    18. Duke
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 10:54 pm | Permalink |

      I have refused to read or listen to the rantings of penises with ears for a while now, and Andy, baby, if the cap fits…

    19. Harimau
      Posted 04/02/2013 at 11:15 pm | Permalink |

      Who is Andrew Bolt and why do we care what he has to say? Seriously. Even if we don’t question his obvious bias, you have to question his relevance to the NBN discussion. He is not a politician. He is not a tech news journalist. He is not involved in the IT industry. He might as well be Joe Average for all anyone should care.
      “below target”: random lunatic slams NBN progress – would have worked just as well. Why you would bother republishing random lunatic’s statements and labelling them “news” baffles me.

      • Hubert Cumberdale
        Posted 05/02/2013 at 12:03 am | Permalink |

        Harimau don’t you realise we have to have someone to laugh at? Yes yes, I know what you are thinking Abbott and Turnbull do provide much entertainment on this NBN topic however the thing is they ARE politicians, we expect them to embarrass themselves politically. Bolt isn’t, so any humiliation he endures is purely born out of his own unmitigated idiocy… and that’s going to happen regardless of the election outcome too. Grab some popcorn and enjoy the ride.

      • Tom
        Posted 05/02/2013 at 12:30 am | Permalink |

        There are quite a few people out there who follow this guy religiously…

        so any chance to pour water on his “reporting” is always good to take, especially when it’s technology-related.

        • alain
          Posted 05/02/2013 at 9:20 am | Permalink |

          ‘so any chance to pour water on his “reporting” is always good to take, especially when it’s technology-related.’

          Which is amusing because no one really has, preferring to attack the easy targets, that is other posters who are not referring to the article directly anyway.

          as Renai surmised:

          ‘To what extent are Andrew Bolt’s comments here legitimate? Well, it depends on your context, because Bolt’s not really saying anything technically inaccurate.’

          • Paul Thompson
            Posted 05/02/2013 at 10:06 am | Permalink |

            I can see several faults with what Bolt has written, just in the snippets Renai has quoted.

            But I am interested. Can you? Let us see if you can critically aanlyse his statements for accuracy.

            • alain
              Posted 05/02/2013 at 12:24 pm | Permalink |

              You want me to criticise his article because no one else including you is?

              lol

              • RocK_M
                Posted 05/02/2013 at 1:23 pm | Permalink |

                There is a fine difference between “criticise” and “critical analysis”

                • alain
                  Posted 05/02/2013 at 1:33 pm | Permalink |

                  Well go ahead do both if you like, don’t let me stop you.

                  • Paul Thompson
                    Posted 05/02/2013 at 2:31 pm | Permalink |

                    I don’t want you to “criticse” his article “because no one else” is.

                    I want you to critically analyse his article to see if you are capable of applying reasoning skills to articles from people who share the same partisan leaning you do.

                    It is a good indicator of credibility.

                  • RocK_M
                    Posted 05/02/2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink |

                    Again… all he was asking for is a critical analysis of the article.

                    Not a criticism. You of course realise that a “critical analysis” can be used to back up an article right?

              • Paul Thompson
                Posted 05/02/2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink |

                I want to see if you are able to, yes.

                • alain
                  Posted 06/02/2013 at 12:51 pm | Permalink |

                  Well we can play that game all day.

                  1. I want to see if you can critically analyse pro NBN comment here in Delimiter and then tell the poster they got it wrong.
                  2. I want to see you critically analyse the NBN Co SAU that is now before the ACCC.
                  3. I want to see you critically analyse the NBN Co 2012-2015 Corporate Plan released last year.

                  Apparently it is a ‘good indicator of credibility’.

                  • Paul Thompson
                    Posted 06/02/2013 at 1:58 pm | Permalink |

                    I was requesting about 5 minutes worth of effort from you, and your response was to request hours worth of effort as though it was a comparable request.

                    Since those two are clearly not comparable, your response seems to be an attempt to avoid applying any critical analysis to Bolt’s article.

                    If you are going to defend a position as strongly as you do, then why are you adverse to healthy self-checks as to whether your position (and/or associated positions) is worth your effort?

                    • alain
                      Posted 06/02/2013 at 4:17 pm | Permalink |

                      Point 1 is less than 5 mins work because I have already done it, all you need to do is add +1 to them, go for it, or if not explain why I got it wrong, you know the posts I mean , they are ones the pro NBN lobby blink fast at and scroll furiously past.

                      • tinman_au
                        Posted 06/02/2013 at 5:17 pm | Permalink |

                        I see your a proponent of Hockeynomics as well!! Some how I’m not that surprised…

                      • Paul Thompson
                        Posted 06/02/2013 at 6:20 pm | Permalink |

                        Perhaps it is time to ask yourself why you refuse to attempt a critical analysis of Bolt’s article and are doing everything you can to avoid doing so.

                        I put forward an opportunity for you to demonstrate that you post in good faith and with honest attempts at reasoned debate. You have sought to avoid demonstrating this and instead have thrown up bizarre red-herrings.

                        The only fair assumption is that you are not posting in good faith or with any honest attempts to be reasonable.

                      • alain
                        Posted 07/02/2013 at 9:10 pm | Permalink |

                        Yes I thought you would avoid it, no more to be said, point has been made clearly and unequivocally.

                      • Paul Thompson
                        Posted 08/02/2013 at 12:08 am | Permalink |

                        Actually I asked you to demonstrate good faith. You deflected, deflected and deflected again. Why are you not willing (or able) to demonstrate good faith? I would have thought that any honest person would be happy to do so.

                        You have proven nothing in your poorly hidden attempts to deflect apart from the fact that you are incapable of considering things rationally, and will run from any polite requests for you to do so.

                        I will ask once again. Please show that you can critically analyse Bolt’s article. No more deflections, no more bizarre demands, no more avoiding it. It is time for you to put up or shut up.

                        Of course, we both know that you can’t do it. Not that you wont – but you are actually, completely incapable. The net effect is to make you a dishonest person. It is here, in black and white, and I have it bookmarked.

                      • NBNAlex
                        Posted 08/02/2013 at 9:03 am | Permalink |

                        Indeed Paul.

                        I too have been asked questions by our ‘friend’ and answered freely and honestly. But when I ask, I firstly receive nothing… then when I ask again, I receive another question (never an answer). So when I say err but what about my question… I receive something like this…

                        “Yes I thought you would avoid it, no more to be said, point has been made clearly and unequivocally.”

                        It’s all to typically obvious and very funny, in pitiful sort of way :/

      • midspace
        Posted 05/02/2013 at 9:04 am | Permalink |

        Which is why I refuse to click on Mr Bolt’s blog or news articles and read it directly, thus depriving him of my visit and whatever revenue or joy he receives as a benefit.

        I would much rather read that sort of thing second hand, from sites such as Delimiter, which offers unbiased opinions and relies upon factual evidence. (which is the honest truth, even if it does sound like a suck up job, though I have no reason to do so.)

      • LetsBeOpenAboutThis
        Posted 05/02/2013 at 4:28 pm | Permalink |

        Andrew Bolt has no integrity or credibility, He is just a propagandist pretending to be a jerno.
        Why anyone reads or listens to anything he says is beyond me!

    20. Hubert Cumberdale
      Posted 05/02/2013 at 10:35 am | Permalink |

      “I would much rather read that sort of thing second hand, from sites such as Delimiter, which offers unbiased opinions and relies upon factual evidence.”

      Until you get to the comment section where his followers rely on the opposite.

      • alain
        Posted 05/02/2013 at 10:40 am | Permalink |

        As distinct from well reasoned fair minded, no vested commercial interest, no political bias, pro NBN comment which is always correct even when shown multiple times over to be incorrect.

        • Hubert Cumberdale
          Posted 05/02/2013 at 10:54 am | Permalink |

          Stop your whining. Your ill-informed input was not requested nor is it required in this debate.

        • tinman_au
          Posted 05/02/2013 at 12:17 pm | Permalink |

          Are you a trainee lawyer or politician Alain?

          A lot of your comments have the taint of the worst of those professions. You ignore the big picture and argue some minutia that you seem to think is critically important to the function of the whole, but which has basically nothing to do with anything, and then go on to construct larger fairytales based off those. I can only guess that it’s driven by your political leanings?

          I could care less about Labor, but as an IT professional, I think it’s refreshing to have a government that actually wants to invest properly in the sector finally.

          • alain
            Posted 05/02/2013 at 1:26 pm | Permalink |

            You can always tell when the heat in the kitchen is getting a bit much, it’s when the shift moves from the message to the messenger in a futile effort to gain some traction

            • midspace
              Posted 05/02/2013 at 1:43 pm | Permalink |

              When the messenger starts to promote the message as their own view point, the messenger stops been a messenger and becomes a follower.

            • tinman_au
              Posted 05/02/2013 at 2:52 pm | Permalink |

              Ooookey….so your delivering a message, like Moses delivered the Decalogue?

              You don’t actually want to actively engage in discussion of the facts, your just pushing “a message”, the “Ten commandments of Malcolm” if you will…Ok, it’s all starting to make sense now…

            • tinman_au
              Posted 06/02/2013 at 11:07 am | Permalink |

              And I was actually pointing out to you why your message is so often wrong, not “shooting the messenger”.

              You pick a position and then argue back from there, instead of reviewing the situation and reasoning it through to it’s logical conclusion.

              • alain
                Posted 06/02/2013 at 12:37 pm | Permalink |

                First of all which particular messages are ‘ so often wrong’ and please don’t come back with some vague stuff like ‘ they all are’.

                Secondly I wonder why you and all other pro-NBN posters turn a blind eye to blatantly incorrect statements from other pro-NBN posters, the silence is deafening unless I pick them up on it?

                • tinman_au
                  Posted 06/02/2013 at 5:32 pm | Permalink |

                  Actually, I’ve agreed with a couple of things you’ve said (most recent that I can recall was the rollout stats issue), and had “barnies” with some of the other “pro” guys because of it.

                  There can be degrees of “pro” you know, and just because I back the current system, doesn’t mean I think it can’t be tweaked to be better ;o)

            • NBNAlex
              Posted 07/02/2013 at 9:58 pm | Permalink |

              LOL.. so you are the messenger sent here to deliver a message from whom?

              Rhetorical… no need to deflect from and tap dance around the bleedin’ obvious.

        • Brendan
          Posted 05/02/2013 at 12:44 pm | Permalink |

          When all else (including logic) fails, ad homonym.

          *golf clap*

    21. Brendan
      Posted 05/02/2013 at 12:41 pm | Permalink |

      Again, it’s very academic.

      FttN is not the end game. It’s not the goal. It is a stepping stone (and expensive one at that) to FttH. Anywhere funding exists, FttH is the solution. FttN is the option when you either do not care, or don’t have the funding. Or both.

      That it’s not happening fast enough, is pretty apparent. Yet, even deploying at ridiculous speeds, it will not be enough for some. Bolt sees money going in and not so much coming out – result? failure! Renai is starting down that same assumptive road.

      We are early on (relatively speaking) in a several year deployment cycle. Much of the funding has to be injected up front to gear up, Telstra hasn’t helped anyone (apart from shareholders), councils have been recalcitrant over various permits, and the ACCC has randomly swung the axe hoping it somehow validates it’s reason for being.

      A massive infrastructure project doesn’t just happen overnight.

      Sure, we need to keep an eye on progress, expect proper outcomes.

      But this innate need to see the project fail, as though that’s some kind of winning vindication, strikes me as just plain mental. We should all want the damn thing to succeed. Regardless of whether we like the idea or not; the alternative is a (competition wise) broken model based on ageing copper that is clearly not up to the task and not a “better” outcome, for anyone.

      • Hubert Cumberdale
        Posted 05/02/2013 at 2:04 pm | Permalink |

        “But this innate need to see the project fail, as though that’s some kind of winning vindication, strikes me as just plain mental”

        Nailed it. I think the reason why they need it to fail because they are fully aware the alternative is deficient and substandard. Best to highlight the minor problems with a great plan than to point out the many with a really bad plan.

      • Abel Adamski
        Posted 06/02/2013 at 10:17 am | Permalink |

        Brendan
        “not up to the task and not a “better” outcome, for anyone.”

        Correction certain vested interests will benefit.

        I read an article I found on Google , an interview with Gordon Brown the ex PM of the UK, he believed he and this individual were good friends, they had family dinners and barbeques, he is godfather to Browns children and had ready access to the family home
        Yet he turned up in Browns office with some heavies instructing him that certain Bills were to not be proceeded with, threats were made. Gordon stated he actually was in fear of his life. His media empire turned on the Labor Govt. and the incoming Gov had senior “advisors” that were ex executives off that Media empire, who subsequently were forced to resign when another scandal involving that media empire broke. The UK is going great under their puppet government aren’t they?
        Then we have
        http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/20/bernstein-murdoch-ailes-petreaus-presidency
        In Aust, that media empire failed to be awarded control of our Nations International Broadcasting Network and the Labor Govt. came up with the FTTH National broadband which will enable competition to his media empire.
        Note the obsessive anti Lab and anti NBN media campaign.
        I fear for Australia under a puppet government ruled over by this unelected empire

    22. LetsBeOpenAboutThis
      Posted 05/02/2013 at 12:46 pm | Permalink |

      Andrew Bolt has no integrity or credibility, He is just a propagandist pretending to be a jerno.
      Why anyone reads or listens to anything he says is beyond me!

    23. stoffs
      Posted 05/02/2013 at 2:51 pm | Permalink |

      I hope the libs don’t get in .. the nbn is completed and in total disgust Alain gets off the internet..

      • tinman_au
        Posted 05/02/2013 at 2:57 pm | Permalink |

        I’m sure Alains basically OK, he’s just blinded by ideology when it comes to an NBN.

        Under normal circumstances, you could probably sit down with him and have a beer and discuss footy, or the weather or something else perfectly rationally.

      • alain
        Posted 05/02/2013 at 4:11 pm | Permalink |

        I hope the Coalition don’t get in either, but then again I look at the bigger picture rather than solely wasting my vote based on the need to have HDTV streaming to four points in the home.

        It is entirely possible to vote Labor or Green or Independant and disagree with Labor NBN policy.

        • tinman_au
          Posted 05/02/2013 at 6:01 pm | Permalink |

          Indeed it is.

          It will be interesting to see if the policies the Liberals introduce in the coming months thats actually “good”. It’ll be interesting to see any policy (as in “This is what we’ll do, and how we do it”) from them at all actually…

        • NBNAlex
          Posted 05/02/2013 at 6:46 pm | Permalink |

          LOL…as if.

        • Paul Thompson
          Posted 06/02/2013 at 11:23 am | Permalink |

          It is theoretically possible to vote Labor, Green or for an indie who backs the NBN – whilst being against the NBN policy yourself.

          However, as the NBN is good policy, this kind of position would be irrational. Opponents of the current NBN policy are invariably anti-Labor (or crazies who think it will eat their brain etc) as it requires a partisan mindset to come to the conclusion that the NBN is bad policy.

          That doesn’t mean it is being perfectly administered – but it is fundamentally very sound.

    24. Stephen H
      Posted 05/02/2013 at 7:52 pm | Permalink |

      The great news is that the Coalition will have plenty of great advice to follow on how to do the NBN properly if they get into office.

      /sarcasm

    25. mat
      Posted 30/06/2013 at 3:51 pm | Permalink |

      The propaganda minister, Joseph Goebells had this to say




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