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  • News, Telecommunications - Written by on Monday, October 29, 2012 10:26 - 138 Comments

    NBN future “clearly wireless”, claims Alan Jones

    news Radio shockjock Alan Jones made a statement riddled with factual errors about the Federal Government’s National Broadband Network project on his radio program this morning, describing it as a “white elephant” and a “disaster” and inaccurately claiming that the future of telecommunications is “clearly wireless”, rather than the mainly fibre model the NBN is mainly using.

    Jones’ comments this morning stemmed from a report in The Australian newspaper that negotiations had collapsed between the Labor Federal Government and the Coalition NSW State Government over access to NSW power poles to aid in NBN Co’s fibre rollout across NSW. The spat is only the latest disagreement between the Labor Federal Government and the predominantly Coalition-dominated state governments over the NBN, with Victoria having been particularly unhappy with the NBN deployment.

    “Well this NBN disaster rolls on,” said Jones. “The white elephant promotes cable technology when the future is clearly wireless. And it’s hopelessly behind schedule, hopelessly over budget, hopelessly unable to capture the public’s imagination. And will be obsolete before it’s built, but polls today say it’s 50-50 [laughs]. How high would they be in the polls if they got something right? Only about 15 per cent of households have bothered to connect to it where it’s been rolled out – 15 per cent.”

    “Some say we’ll eventually fork out $50 billion to build it. It’s not in the budget, and it’s hard not to see why. Consider this for example, I see the O’Farrell Government is fighting a last-ditch battle with the Commonwealth over the cost of rolling out NBN cable onto New South Wales power poles where cable can’t go underground. The Federal Government’s now threatening to use draconian laws to overrule New South Wales, a move which the State Government says will force it to increase the cost of electricity to consumers by between $5 and $7 for 20 years.”

    Unfortunately, Jones’ statement this morning on air appears to contain a number of incorrect statements.

    The idea that Australia’s broadband needs could be served in future by wireless technology — especially 4G mobile broadband is not a new one. It has been raised repeatedly by the Coalition over the past several years as an alternative to the fixed FTTH-style rollout which predominantly features in the NBN. The case for wireless as a future broadband replacement for fixed infrastructure has been strengthened by the huge growth in uptake of 3G and 4G mobile broadband services in Australia, with telcos like Telstra adding on more than a million new customers a year.

    However, the global telecommunications industry is currently almost universally in agreement that in every country, telecommunications needs will continue to be served by a mix of fixed and wireless infrastructure.

    In Australia, for example,, commentators such as Telstra CEO David Thodey have consistently stated that they expect Australians to buy both mobile and fixed broadband packages in future, as they serve differing needs; fixed broadband to supply homes with powerful connections to facilitate big downloads such as video, and mobile broadband when outside the home, for access to services which typically require lesser capacity. In addition, mobile towers typically also require their own fibre connections to funnel data back from wireless connections to the major fixed-line telecommunications networks.

    Secondly, Jones’ comment that the NBN will be obsolete before it is built is also incorrect. The fibre technology while will constitute the vast majority of the NBN rollout contains the potential to be upgraded to deliver 1Gbps speeds to premises and potentially higher speeds in future; the deployment of this technology universally around Australia is expected to place Australia amongst the global leading countries when it comes to telecommunications. It is expected that this technology will be in use for multiple decades – at least between 30 to 50 years.

    Jones’ statement that the NBN is “hopelessly unable to capture the public’s imagination” is also incorrect. A series of polls taken over the past several years has shown that the NBN project has continued to enjoy strong levels of popularity since the last Federal Election, even amongst Coalition voters.

    In addition, Jones’ statement that the NBN should be included on the Federal Budget is also incorrect. Most of the funding for the NBN does not appear in the Budget, as, according to accounting standards, it is not an expense as generally understood, but is actually a capital investment expected to generate (according to its corporate plan) a modest return of 7.1 percent on the Government’s investment, over the period through to 2030.

    According to a research note published last year by the Parliamentary Library of Australia, Labor’s budget treatment of the NBN is correct. “Australia has adopted internationally accepted accounting standards, and these are applied in the budget treatment of the NBN,” the library’s Brian Dalzell, who works in its economics division, wrote in the report. Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has acknowledged the accuracy of the NBN’s accounting treatment, although it is still disputed by other Coalition figures such as Opposition Leader Tony Abbott and Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey.

    In addition, Jones’ statement that only 15 percent of households have bothered to connect to the NBN where it has been rolled out is misleading. In areas where the NBN’s fibre was rolled out first, such as Kiama in NSW, take-up rates have been closed to 40 percent and growing. The closure of Telstra’s copper network, and the HFC cable networks operated by Telstra and Optus, will push this figure dramatically higher in all areas over the next several years, as the NBN becomes the monopoly provider of last-mile fixed broadband infrastructure in Australia.

    Jones’ statement that the NBN is behind schedule and hopelessly over budget contains some grounding in truth. In August the company released its new corporate plan, which showed that the project was six months behind schedule and that the overall capital cost of the NBN build had increased by 3.9 percent. However, this was offset by the fact that the total capital cost for the NBN was “significantly less” than the $43 billion originally announced by the Government in April 2009, Communications Minister Stephen Conroy and Finance Minister Penny Wong, who are jointly responsible for the NBN. said at the time, and the delay was less than the nine-month delay expected to have been caused by the lengthy negotiations around the $11 billion deal NBN Co has signed with Telstra to transfer its customers onto the NBN infrastructure and gain access to Telstra’s infrastructure. The 3.9 percent increase in the NBN’s capital costs is believed to be within industry margins of error for a project of this scope.

    Jones’ comments this morning reflect only the most recent occasion on which the shockjock – who has strong connections to the Liberal side of politics – has inaccuractely criticised the NBN. In May last year, for example, the radio broadcaster incorrectly stated that German researchers had demonstrated technology which would make the NBN obsolete, delivering speeds 2.6 million times faster than those possible under the Labor project, referring to so-called “lasers” used in the research. In fact, the research breakthrough demonstrated the strength of the NBN’s core fibre technology.

    In addition, Jones’ inaccurate comments this morning come just several weeks after the broadcaster was ordered to undergo basic journalism training by Australia’s media regulator, the Australian Communications and Media Authority, after making an incorrect statement regarding carbon dioxide emissions in March 2011. ACMA ruled that Jones’ program would be forced to fact-check certain material before it went to air.

    opinion/analysis
    I think we know enough by now not to take anything Alan Jones says about the NBN seriously. I note that Jones had until the end of November this year to undertake his required basic journalism training. Perhaps the broadcaster has not yet undergone that training, and we can expect a more factual approach from him in future when it comes to the NBN. However, personally, I’m not holding my breath.

    Image credit: Jeremy Buckingham, Creative Commons

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    138 Comments

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    1. Posted 29/10/2012 at 10:32 am | Permalink |

      I don’t even

      • Soth
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 10:39 am | Permalink |

        Agree with you shoerust, I don’t even either…
        It’s scary to hear this on live radio, espcially the radio channel who announced that the broadcasters will be getting educated in the field topics they will be discussing (it’s not really a discussion is it), because if it was a call in service, we would need to get Renai on the line :)

      • Posted 29/10/2012 at 10:39 am | Permalink |

        +1

      • Ray
        Posted 30/10/2012 at 8:50 am | Permalink |

        He’s the ‘perfect’ Liberal – lie after lie after lie.

    2. Dy4me
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 10:36 am | Permalink |

      Oh No. There never seem to be a shortage of stupid people. The sad part is just in the interest of Political interest people make themselves look like Idiots by making claims like wireless is better or FTTH is just money down the drain.

      And to all the whingers about take up rates being at 15%. Just remember that in 18 months those take up rates will be forced up to 90%+ due to the copper being switched off. And so it should be. Its way passed its expiry date.

    3. Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:06 am | Permalink |

      Lasers.

    4. Bpat
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:08 am | Permalink |

      Has anyone got the link to report him to the communications board?

    5. Zok
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:12 am | Permalink |

      The future of transportation is, clearly, flying cars!

      • RocKStaR
        Posted 30/10/2012 at 12:59 am | Permalink |

        Then why bother building roads clearly the government is run by fools!

    6. Jiui
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:15 am | Permalink |

      So whats your opinion on the State v NBNco debacle?

      From what I can see its NSW government trying to gouge NBNco because it needs to balance its budget in a way other than cutting jobs. Do you think we have the whole story or is there another specific reason why NSW is charging 3x as much?

      “He refuted claims by Mr Conroy that the federal government just wanted to lease the poles to make the installations, saying: “We have to do the work because we’re the ones who maintain the service delivery and wires and poles.””

      Is Conroy right because thats what I understood was going to happen? Does this misunderstanding/the state government’s insistence on working the poles themselves the reason for this increased cost?

      • NBNAccuracy
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:29 am | Permalink |

        “State v NBNco debacle”
        not “State v NBNco issue”
        or “State v NBNco disagreement”?

        Throw is a few white elephants and some coolaid too.

        • Jiui
          Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:41 am | Permalink |

          WTF is your problem?

        • Jiui
          Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:42 am | Permalink |

          Reads the first line and thinks he/she/it knows what the post is about

          Pathetic

          • NBNAccuracy
            Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:53 am | Permalink |

            No, I read the whole post. I was just questioning your use of the highly emotive term “debacle”
            Why use such terms?

            • Jiui
              Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:13 pm | Permalink |

              Because I felt it was apt wording. It is a debacle. From what I’ve read its not NBNco’s fault but the State Government’s and thus a debacle on their part. It seems to be more than a simple disagreement or issue because the State Government is being taken to court.

              Strong emotive words yes, however I felt they were appropriate for the situation. If it pleases you I’ll avoid them in the future and use less emotive terms.

              • RocK_M
                Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:11 pm | Permalink |

                As an aside….

                NSW already lost significant workers comps rights, ongoing blame shifting on infrastructure problems and if this current debacle leads to several areas loosing the NBN I can assure you I will definitely not be voting Coalition any time soon…

    7. midspace
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:26 am | Permalink |

      I’m glad I live in Melbourne, where I clearly don’t get the option to hear him on radio.
      I’d probably crash my car and commit road rage as a result of hearing him talk.

      • Jiui
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:38 am | Permalink |

        Sometimes in the morning I look out the bus window into the luxury car next to me and see 2GB 873 AM on the screen of the car’s infotainment system and I think yep, here’s another one of his battlers…

    8. NPSF3000
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:29 am | Permalink |

      Alan Jones, a man more powerful than liquor when it comes numbing the mind.

      • Simon
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:33 am | Permalink |

        +1

    9. Hubert Cumberdale
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:44 am | Permalink |

      Alan Jones: clearly clueless.

      I’m sure his just as clueless audience will agree with him. Remember it’s not about getting facts right it’s about getting those bogans outraged.

      • joe
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:35 pm | Permalink |

        Unfortunately, Hubert (?!), it is not just bogans who listen to Alan Jones tell them what to think, it is many more people across the spectrum of eduction, intelligence, and income. The problem with Jones isn’t his opinion, as poor as it is, but on his ability to tap into Aussie skepticism and mistrust and use it for his own goals, which are generally focussed on his own income and popularity.

        Alan affects public opinion, which is why he should be taken to task for every slice of misinformation he serves and be forces to pay for the lies and deceits he supplies. He doesn’t care if he quotes august international journals or foil-hat conspiratist bloggers, so log as it supports his opinion and he can pass the blame to others.

    10. Mike
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:22 pm | Permalink |

      Somebody should challenge Allan Jones to put his money where his mouth is and switch every bit of tech that runs services for his show/ incoming calls etc over a 4G/ 3G link and see how he feels then.

      • joe
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:36 pm | Permalink |

        Good one! +1.
        Or maybe he should be using lasers …

    11. Gordon Drennan
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:23 pm | Permalink |

      It is running late. That’s true.

      It is running overbudget. that’s true.

      The official figures show a takeup rate of only about 15-20% overall. That’s true.

      And it will only get to a takeup rate that might make it commercially viable, and therefore an investment rather than an expense that should appear in the budget, courtesy of the government using its power to force people onto it, so it is true it has faile to capture the public imagination.

      There’s clearly just too much truth in what Alan Jones says for Delimiter and its fanbois to be able to deal with.

      • Soth
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:29 pm | Permalink |

        Sure but that isn’t what this article is about, it’s about wireless being the future. Did you read the article good sir?

      • Rhys
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:31 pm | Permalink |

        Some or most of the people that have it available don’t know how or can’t break the contract and move from adsl to nbn. They will be moving when the contract runs out. It’s a matter of time not an “if” subject.

      • Simon
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:40 pm | Permalink |

        A technology project over budget and running late is very common, in fact if a project this size was running on time and on budget, anyone with a knowledge of the industry and the project lifecycle would suspect something was not quite right.
        As mentioned already, this is about claims that wireless is the future and the NBN is a waste of time, even though industry leaders and technologists all agree that a mixed environment is a must.
        If you’re going to believe Alan “shock jock” Jones over highly experienced and respected business and industry leaders, then you sir are a moron.

        • Hubert Cumberdale
          Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:51 pm | Permalink |

          “If you’re going to believe Alan “shock jock” Jones over highly experienced and respected business and industry leaders, then you sir are a moron.”

          Ladies and gentlemen, Gordon Drennan’s greatest hits! yay! [insert Kermit arms]

          “Australia has a good national communications network.”

          “At best a $40B ultra-high-speed fibre to every home will improve that only marginally.”

          “the majority of people who are quite well served by 8 or 6 or even the 2-3 Mb/s”

          “All the people who most need to be connected to a national broadband network – the elderly, the sick, the disabled and the poor – won’t be on it because they won’t be able to afford it.”

          “Its pathetic that the NBNCo will be able to force people onto its product”

          “Is the NBN or the Labor party paying for these idiotic stories?”

          “Brad, your articles suggest an obvious question. Exactly who is it you think you’re working for: the ABC, NBNCo or the ALP?”

          “I’m sure NBNCo wants to keep reminding people that somewhere they are doing something with the tens of billions of dollars of taxpayers money they are spending”

          “They just don’t think most people who already have perfectly good copper going past their houses consider ultra-high-speed broadband will give them a benefit that justifies $5000 of their money being spent ripping out that copper and putting in fibre.”

          • Simon
            Posted 29/10/2012 at 2:11 pm | Permalink |

            Hilarious. My personal favourite: “At best a $40B ultra-high-speed fibre to every home will improve that only marginally”. Uses the “ultra-high-speed” adjective then backs it up with “only marginally”. Genius.

          • Tom
            Posted 29/10/2012 at 10:58 pm | Permalink |

            [insert Kermit arms]

            Ask and ye shall receive…

            • Tom
              Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:03 pm | Permalink |

              Hmm… lets try that again (image source, incase it doesn’t appear)

              • Hubert Cumberdale
                Posted 30/10/2012 at 2:21 pm | Permalink |

                LOL

          • GongGav
            Posted 30/10/2012 at 9:40 am | Permalink |

            Can we get all that onto one T-shirt HC, or will we need to run a series now?

      • NBNAlex
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 1:01 pm | Permalink |

        @ Gordon

        http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/25/hockey-repeats-inaccurate-nbn-claim/#comment-513832

        And what about those lasers eh?

      • Observer
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 1:20 pm | Permalink |

        Thank you for you comments.

        You are a perfect reminder why Alan Jones’ comments are nothing to worry about. Why? Because, he only preaches to the converted.

        Alan Jones and his supporters belong to this unique group of people who are never uncertain but seldom right.

      • PeterA
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 5:03 pm | Permalink |

        You forgot wireless is clearly the future.

      • Karl
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 5:13 pm | Permalink |

        “It is running overbudget. that’s true.”
        No it isn’t. It’s expected to cost slightly more than they expected in 2010, when they based their cost on a whole lot of assumptions. It does not have a budget. It is still costing them less than the original price tag they put on it.

        “The official figures show a takeup rate of only about 15-20% overall. That’s true.”
        The false part of that statement is not the number, it’s the idea that the number holds any meaningful significance.

        “And it will only get to a takeup rate that might make it commercially viable, and therefore an investment rather than an expense that should appear in the budget…”
        Incorrect, that’s not how accounting works, I suggest you read this if you want to know the real facts:
        http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BN/2011-2012/NBNBudgetStatements

        “the government using its power to force people onto it”
        Nobody is being forced onto it. There is a cable there, you can use it or not. If you don’t use it, you can still use wireless to do everything, right? The Coalition want me to believe wireless is the way of the future anyway.

        “There’s clearly just too many lies in what Alan Jones says for Delimiter and its informed readers to be able to ignore.”
        Fixed.

      • Whaaaat?
        Posted 30/10/2012 at 8:32 am | Permalink |

        Clearly you do not understand broadband technologies or it’s potential. Why don’t you just get on your knees for Jones mate…

      • Funny
        Posted 31/10/2012 at 1:34 pm | Permalink |

        Yep.. you hit the nail right on the head Gordon. All factual statements, but of course all of these fanboys get on here and make little wink wink nudge nudge jokes that are so predictable and pathetic that its hard to take a publication like this seriously…
        The points here are
        1. Is the NBN behind schedule? yes it is. So Alan Jones did not lie, he stated a fact. ALan Jones 1, Fan boys on delimeter 0
        2. Is the take up rate 15%, what was that sir? It is??? well, another point that Alan Jones was right about. Alan Jones 2, fan boys on delimeter 0
        3. Is the future wireless? well, this is debatable. To quote someone from Telstra saying ‘we intend to sell both packages’ and say ‘thats proof that wireless is not the future’ is a joke. Thats like saying ‘mobile phones is not the way of the future becuase we still sell home phones’. More and more people are switiching to wireless, in fact 820,000 mobile 4G devices were sold last year from Telstra alone!! So at best, this is an even debate on that question.

        To infer listeners of Alan Jones ‘bogans’, or ‘stupid’ or ‘the converted’ is both offensive and stupid. We have a right to an opinion. Now I am a supporter of the NBN because where I live I cant get ADSL, so bring on the NBN, but this publication’s constant practice of picking the Coalitions point, and then coming up with examples to suit you, rather than the actual facts… its quite disconcerning

        Cue other posters personal insults…

        • Observer
          Posted 31/10/2012 at 3:26 pm | Permalink |

          “To infer listeners of Alan Jones ‘bogans’, or ‘stupid’ or ‘the converted’ is both offensive and stupid.’

          Since when being converted is an insult? Also, I suppose being called an NBN fanboy is not personal or stupid.

          I think that somehow you have managed to remove any possible doubts people might have had about Alan Jones’ listeners.

          “Now I am a supporter of the NBN because where I live I cant get ADSL,”

          Would you still be in favour of the NBN if you could get ADSL?

        • Posted 31/10/2012 at 7:30 pm | Permalink |

          @Funny

          1. Is the NBN behind schedule? yes it is.

          I don’t believe anybody has said it isn’t. But the rollout START is what is behind schedule, not the rollout itself. It is the equivalent of your house contracted to take 16 weeks, but because of weather, it takes 17 as it couldn’t be started in the first week, due to waterlogging the slab.

          2. Is the take up rate 15%, what was that sir? It is???

          Indeed it is and again, I don’t think you’ll find anyone has disputed that. Having said that, Kiama, one of the first areas to be switched on is at almost 44%. Wilunga is at 30%. In another 3 months, the takeup is likely to be 20% Nationally, or higher. This is TWICE what NZ are getting, despite starting their rollout 9 months before us. And finally, takeup is completely irrelevant- from 23rd November, 22 areas first connect will have their copper switched off, meaning those who wish to have a landline (70% of Australian Premises) will takeup the NBN.

          3. Is the future wireless?…. More and more people are switiching to wireless

          That is incorrect. The current numbers from the ABS, September 2012, suggest the numbers of Fixed line services are GROWING while mobile subscriptions are ALSO growing. Australians are not “switching” they are using both as both have differing needs. 94% of all data moved in Australia in June 2012 was moved over FIXED lines.

          but this publication’s constant practice of picking the Coalitions point, and then coming up with examples to suit you, rather than the actual facts… its quite disconcerning

          I just gave you facts to prove how, while Mr Jones comments aren’t untrue, they ARE extremely misleading, which, if you read this article again, is what Renai is saying. At no point does he say any of Jones’ comments are untrue. Simply that they are misleading as they lack CONTEXT. Would you care to dispute those facts?

          Cue other posters personal insults…

          You’ll find Renai and most of us do not engage in, nor support or tolerate personal insults.

    12. Simon
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:34 pm | Permalink |

      Sick to death of this moron. Obviously does not have any clue what he’s talking about, yet he’s allowed to continue making factually innaccurate statements without any recourse.

      • jasmcd
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 3:32 pm | Permalink |

        Gordon Drennan, Alan Jones or both?

    13. Len Da Hand
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:44 pm | Permalink |

      I reckon Alan Jones finally has blown open this NBN fubar. As usual his argument is eloquently put, facts double and triple checked from multiple sauces and he is all over this like jimmy savile on top of the pops. I’m suprised he didnt play the voice clip of Dr Evil and freekin lasers as the answer on how we shall communicate in 5 years ……

      • Karl
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 5:18 pm | Permalink |

        Given recent developments, I could make some very poor jokes regarding what Jimmy Saville was all over :P

    14. Sathias
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:46 pm | Permalink |

      Reminds me of this Dilbert cartoon

      • Sathias
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:47 pm | Permalink |

        Whoops, I thought HTML worked in the comments section. Here it is

        http://i.imgur.com/1X3C7.gif

      • NBNAlex
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 6:28 pm | Permalink |

        Indeed… but did you know.

        Scientists in England were conducting experiments and dug down into the ground to the depth of 15m. There they found copper lines. They therefore concluded that England actually had a functioning PSTN 150 years ago.

        Not to be outdone the Americans did likewise but went down 20m and they too discovered copper. They therefore concluded that they had eclipsed the English by having a PSTN 200 years ago.

        So AJ conducted his own tests right here in Australia and dug down 25m and found no copper at all. He therefore concluded that the Coalition had delivered wireless 250 years ago.

        ;)

    15. penguincat
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 12:55 pm | Permalink |

      Anyone else see a patten here. “Wireless is the future” is always from people who have buckets of cash? Maybe they can afford it but not me. $1092 would be my monthly bill and $13,104 for the year if I used nothing but wireless.

      Though Telstra business wireless is a few hundred less for unlimited a month.
      Wireless would have to drop 92% in price or fixed line remain the same or would have to go up one cookie of a-lot. To the point it became $1092 for 150gig.
      If everyone paid that sort of price NBN would be paid for within 6 years being $5,995,080,000 raised per year. Kinda don’t think that is ever going to happen though.

    16. Mel
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 1:08 pm | Permalink |

      It’s not ridden with errors, it’s ridden with lies. This is a bitter old man who is feeling his influence over the weak slowly dwindling away.
      Expect more lies as he tries to grasp whatever straws he has left to hold on to.

    17. Russell Stuart
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 1:25 pm | Permalink |

      I think we know enough by now not to take anything Alan Jones says about the NBN seriously.

      There are too many qualifications in that sentence.

    18. Brendan
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 1:29 pm | Permalink |

      Alan Jones is about as qualified to speak on the NBN, as Tony Abbott is on the abilities of women in the workplace.

      Alan’s stock in trade is to “whip up” a bit of the old ultraviolence hate on whatever topic it is this week. An angry old man with angry old man syndrome.

      If people choose to believe his tripe, then best of luck; it doesn’t change facts. The NBN is being built in spite of the naysayers.

      • Soth
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 1:32 pm | Permalink |

        I just hope it continues to get built no matter who is in power, but currently not looking like it’s going down that path with the opposition.

    19. Posted 29/10/2012 at 2:18 pm | Permalink |

      Leaving the Alan Jones’ asides (because it isn’t worth the words on the page to discuss the man) I think this is a last ditch attempt by the NSW government to:

      A) Claw back some$20 million a year for the electricity assets their counterparts predominantly sold in their years in office

      B) A last ditch attempt to delay/give bad PR to NBNCo./Labor as they have been doing for the past 6 -12 months.

      I don’t mind this government (yet), but I’m getting sick of them purposefully getting in NBNCo’s way. They are doing it over nothing more than bad grapes and a penchant for making a Federal Labor government look bad. As Conroy said, every other state has come to a decent financial arrangement, yet NSW, who has been whinging over the NBN for months, won’t.

      9 year old girls….. (I can say that, my niece is 9)

      • LetsBeOpenAboutThis
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 5:36 pm | Permalink |

        Right from the word go Dr No and the Nah sayers have criticised and hindered the whole project. Now they are turning around and saying that its behind schedule and over budget!
        History will show in the years to come that instead of supporting the NBN for the common good of all Australians, They were in fact against it, Alan is just a small “part” of their propaganda machine!

    20. Homer
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 2:20 pm | Permalink |

      The Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) says Jones will have to undertake training on “factual accuracy and significant viewpoints”

      (from http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-18/alan-jones-ordered-to-do-journalism-training/4320534 )

      It’s pretty clear that this training can’t come soon enough.

    21. Posted 29/10/2012 at 2:48 pm | Permalink |

      If you are outraged by these mistruths intended to deceive, then if you live in Sydney then there is one avenue open to you. Complain to 2GB. When they fob you off (and they will), escalate your complaint to the ACMA.

      You mist first complain to the station that broadcast the material, you cannot go to the ACMA directly unless there it is a licence condition matter – I don’t think 2GB has been slapped with a licence condition yet.

      ” You can refer a complaint about a code matter to the ACMA if you made a complaint to the station concerned in the way specified in the code and:

      – you are not satisfied with the station’s response; or
      – you did not receive a response from the station within 60 days.”

      I would suggest referring to the previous ACMM complaints and suggesting that today’s broadcast is similar to those upheld complaints.

      • omgwtfbbq
        Posted 30/10/2012 at 5:42 pm | Permalink |

        I just lodged a complaint with 2GB. There atleast two gross misrepresentations in the show AFAIK:

        1) The treatment of the NBN costs as a budget item.
        2) NBN will be obsolete before it is deployed.

        I’ve also directed them to this article for further info.

    22. djos
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 2:49 pm | Permalink |

      AJ and his shock jock mates make me sick!

      Frankly there should be laws preventing any form of Media from spouting clear untruths – sure getting the law right would be hard and policing it would be hard too but the willful disdain shown for the truth by MSM in particular just beggars belief!!

      :-(

    23. Bob.H
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 3:19 pm | Permalink |

      Hmmmm: Our “friend” Alan Jones is slamming the NBN so it must have been brought to his attention by some of his mates. Could it be they are running scared?

      Conclusion: Their is about to be an announcement about the NBN that is going to destroy the credibility of the Opposition and their supporters arguments against this newfangled development.

      I wonder how soon the story will break?

      • djos
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 3:33 pm | Permalink |

        Oh, please do tell us? :-)

    24. Anthony
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 3:49 pm | Permalink |

      I am soooooooooo glad AJ was banned from radio up here in Darwin after the “Shame” incident…

    25. Jason
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:19 pm | Permalink |

      Correct me if im wrong

      isnt jones supposed to be telling the facts, since he was caught out on his climate lie

    26. Kambo
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:38 pm | Permalink |

      Honestly I think Renai should offer himself up as a consultant on NBN facts to this radio station.

      • Soth
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:42 pm | Permalink |

        Renai would blow Alan Jones mind with facts. Alan Jones head is not designed for facts.

      • Quiet Observer
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 5:04 pm | Permalink |

        Unfortunately, Jones’ impossibly thick skull has repeatedly been proven to be immune to facts. Remember, this is “Mr Pick n Stick” we’re talking about here. He ignores any facts that clash with his ideology, and he is far too arrogant and egotistical to admit that he’s wrong about anything. It’s painfully obvious that Jones is picking and sticking with Tony Abbott, therefore Abbott’s (painfully wrong) utterances about the NBN are irrefutable gospel. I’m just glad that Jones’ audience is in decline (as far as I know).

    27. Craig
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:41 pm | Permalink |

      Maybe NBN Co needs to run some Ads on 2GB, then we’ll see the piper change his tune.

    28. Bob
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:44 pm | Permalink |

      Sigh Alan Jones, why do people even bother to listen to anyone who make incorrect and misleading statements that show their own political views.

      If Alan Jones stated the entire facts you’d be correct. He doesn’t know nothing technical about the NBN, he too probably just sees iPods and iPads and thinks “wow” how good is wireless.

      I could do the same as what Alan Jones is doing. For example.

      – Wireless speeds will be obsolete for 2020 by the time it is built
      – Wireless will have back spots and poor reception
      – Wireless will require thousand and thousands of new tower which means more radiation
      – Wireless speeds does not even compare to fiber speeds
      – Wireless equipment is expensive to upgrade and is only a short term solution until the next 5G or whatever you want to call it comes out, compared to fiber optic end points being the only upgrade required.

      99% of people here aren’t stupid Alan.

      • Soth
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:51 pm | Permalink |

        …but the future is clearly wireless… Wireless lasers obviously!

        • Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:58 pm | Permalink |

          “wireless lasers” lol

          • Tom
            Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:10 pm | Permalink |

            “wireless lasers” lol

            I’m wondering if a “rainbow” would fit the bill here…
            Sure, it’s not technically “lasers”, but it is “light”, it has no “wires”, and it does have the same funky colours that are used in “lasers”…

            ;)

        • PeterA
          Posted 29/10/2012 at 6:41 pm | Permalink |

          Lasers really are the solution.
          I mean, except for the line of sight issue. Maybe we could make some kind of technology that … Directs the laser around corners and buildings… Even make it go underground.
          like, a mirrored tube of some sort that we could run from one point to another, that way we could have a network full of the amazing high capacity lasers connecting everyone!

          just imagine the future, where when you need more bandwidth, you just add another colour of laser between 2 points instead of having to lay a new wire…amazing.

      • NBNAccuracy
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 5:29 pm | Permalink |

        You can even use his “The trend is toward wireless internet” against him. He bases his claim on number of devices. You can equally claim “The trend is toward fixed line internet” using data volumes to make your case.

    29. TimH
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:49 pm | Permalink |

      What happened to fact checking?

      • Posted 29/10/2012 at 4:59 pm | Permalink |

        A mythical concept lost in legend.

      • NPSF3000
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 5:02 pm | Permalink |

        Alan Jones happened.

    30. Posted 29/10/2012 at 5:13 pm | Permalink |

      You guys are soooo wrong with your fiber, Mr Jones is fully correct when he says lasers are the future.
      The lasers could be installed on mobile phone towers and broadcast 360 degrees to everyone everywhere. Oh, hang on people could look at the tower and be blinded.
      OK, the lasers could be directed at each individual house. Perfect. Oh, hang on some Cyber Terrorist could redirect the lasers as planes.
      OK, what say we put the lasers in a tube so that they can be kept safe, we could burry most of them too to make them safer still.
      Told you Mr Jones was right.

      • Djos
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 6:43 pm | Permalink |

        Epic post!

        All hail the logics of AJ!

        :-p

    31. Tailgator
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 5:30 pm | Permalink |

      I haven’t listened to the broadcast (and am very reluctant to do so). However if there are specific errors or faults with the claims made, then the best course of action would be to lodge a complaint with 2GB. Unless those errors are addressed to your satisfaction then there will be recourse to lodge a formal complaint with the ACMA.
      So ….
      1/ Are there any factual errors made by the program.
      2/ Do they fall within the scope of the ‘Commercial Radio Codes of Practice and Guidlines’ ? http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/aba/contentreg/codes/radio/documents/commercial_radio-codes_and_guidelines_5sept2011.pdf
      3/ If so lodge a formal complaint with the station detailing the instances and why you believe that they contravene the above Code. (Supply factual information to contrary and to support your claim.)
      4/ If a satisfactory response is not received within 60 days you can then make a formal complaint to the ACMA.

      And if all goes well, they may make a determination in 6-12 months. LOL. But seriously, taking formal action is probably the only way to stop disingenuous and factually incorrect information being spread. And of course the more people that complain then the stronger the case.

      Just do it.

    32. Annoying Old Fart
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 5:37 pm | Permalink |

      Another manufactured storm in a teacup. Jones must do this deliberately; his listeners are by definition as dumb as rocks, impervious to facts. And everyone else knows what a poisonous clown he is. Nothing new here!

    33. Poo2
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 5:41 pm | Permalink |

      Hmmm slow news day?

      Lets post stupid shit about stupid people, saying stupid things – and then call that fist worthy.

      Personally, the way this write up is going, the whole shit bag journalism ethics, the lack of innovation, as well as the censoring, it makes the site merely worth an unsubscription issue.

      • socrates
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 6:04 pm | Permalink |

        That’s tough, Poo, it looks like we shall just have to try and get along without you.

        After all, Alan Jones has told us that there is no need for NBN fibre to go to 93 per cent of premises, so it must be right.

        Thank the various gods we have such knowledgable people to save us from wasting money on fibre technology that will only last us for the next, oh, century or so. And his so far undisclosed alternative is…?

      • Tinman_au
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 6:05 pm | Permalink |

        Maybe he is stupid (I don’t believe he is, he’s just pushing an agenda), but with 151,000 listeners his “facts” need to be publicly corrected/shown up otherwise, for those 151k folks (and their friends, family and co-workers), they effectively become “the” facts…

    34. Tinman_au
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 6:00 pm | Permalink |

      Alan Jones….describing it as a “white elephant”…

      Talk about the pot calling the kettle black….

    35. Posted 29/10/2012 at 6:04 pm | Permalink |

      If you squint the right way, he is telling the true when he says the future is wireless. Just not in the way we techs use the term wireless.

      The fixed line NBN is fibres, not wires (wires carry electricity).

      I’ll get back in my box now.

    36. David
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 6:49 pm | Permalink |

      Fortunately for the country the implementation of Govt Policy is not influenced by the rubbish the disgraced Jones spouts. His refuse is destined for the tip where it belongs. He has no knowledge of the NBN only interested in what is good for him personally and he knows the NBN will be the end of him. It will go ahead and improve the lives of Australians for generations to follow,
      Fortunately Jones doesnt figure in that future.

    37. Mimi Waller
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 7:27 pm | Permalink |

      Why is Alan Jones broadcasting if he requires to undergo Basic Journalist training??? Shouldn’t he be trained and deemed fit to broadcast beforehand? The guy clearly doesn’t know what he is doing. OMG when will logic kick in at 2GB. Everybody is given training BEFORE they are trusted to do a job.

      • Bob.H
        Posted 29/10/2012 at 8:56 pm | Permalink |

        2GB have never said that AJ needs retraining.

        That was ACMA.

        Oh incidentally AJ has a major interest in 2GB.

        • Tinman_au
          Posted 29/10/2012 at 10:24 pm | Permalink |

          Yep, 30% share last I heard….nice work if you can get it…

          • shane
            Posted 30/10/2012 at 9:21 am | Permalink |

            not quite, he has 20% of vestible shares, which i think means he can ONLY sell them back to the station…. the idea being that his job is to make the shares more valuable by good broadcasting – so 2GB give him shares for 5 years or whatever and MUST sell them at the end of the contract..
            funny thing is though that the value of those vestible shares has dropped from around $20mill to less than $1mill….

    38. NBNAlex
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 8:00 pm | Permalink |

      I find it interesting that people like AJ are referred to as shockjocks?

      Personally I would have thought a shockjock is someone like Howard Stern who does out there stuff for shits and giggles. Not someone who is clearly just a mouthpiece for a political cause!

      • shane
        Posted 10/11/2012 at 6:27 pm | Permalink |

        i think shock jock and nutjob often get interchanged in this context

    39. AW
      Posted 29/10/2012 at 11:03 pm | Permalink |

      I have to say not being very tech-y I haven’t spent any time on this website.

      But I’ve read the article and the comments here and can I just say:

      1) Great article, thanks for the clarification on NBN (confession: when NBN was first discussed I was one of those people saying “why don’t we just go with wireless?” – as I said, I’m not very tech-y)

      b) The comments section here is one of the most enteraining I’ve seen in a long time. I’ve literally lol’d several times

      iii) Lasers!

      :)

    40. ungulate
      Posted 30/10/2012 at 12:26 am | Permalink |

      Have to sympathise with Renai here,

      Its a bit like being a firefighter chasing a dozen serial arsonists :)

    41. Michael
      Posted 30/10/2012 at 7:34 am | Permalink |

      I’m not sure who is more stupid. Alan Jones or the people who listen to him.

    42. shane
      Posted 30/10/2012 at 9:17 am | Permalink |

      Just when precisel is going to start using his newly employed ‘fact checkers’?
      yerrr…. he obviously doesn’t understand that the more wireless towers you have, the more things like the NBN will be needed.
      yes it’s wireless from your device to the tower but where on gods green earth does he think they get plugged into – yep – hardline internet.
      there’s no point having super fast wireless if it bottlenecks on the old hardwired system.
      so the more we move to wireless, the more NBN we’ll need.

      • GongGav
        Posted 30/10/2012 at 11:38 am | Permalink |

        FttH runs fibre from the exchange all the way to the abode.

        FttN runs fibre from the exchange all the way to the node.

        We know those basic differences. What we DONT know is at what point a wireless tower will integrate back into the line. If it does it at the node, or some other point between there and the exchange (or even be considered a node itself, and run all the way to the exchange) then the difference is meaningless.

        It IS something to consider, but if its jacked in early in the line then FttN still delivers exactly the same as FttH. And the reality is, 90% of FttN is still fibre so its most likely that wireless towers are still going to be a full fibre line from tower to exchange.

        So whether we get FttN or FttH, the wireless towers are most likely to have FttH benefits and the whole “need fibre anyway” argument has no merit. Basially, copper shouldnt be a bottleneck as it shouldnt be part of the connection – the copper lines from the nodes run to premises, NOT towers.

    43. trevor
      Posted 30/10/2012 at 10:04 am | Permalink |

      What everyone is forgetting is that when the NBN comes in there will be no line rental .. think of the savings

      • djos
        Posted 30/10/2012 at 10:17 am | Permalink |

        Screw the savings, wont someone please think of the children!

        ;-)

        • GongGav
          Posted 30/10/2012 at 3:18 pm | Permalink |

          If you flip savings and children, you have Liberal policy in a nutshell… And the Catholic church for that matter.

          • djos
            Posted 30/10/2012 at 3:42 pm | Permalink |

            imo the catholic church spend too much time thinking of children!

    44. Paul Thompson
      Posted 30/10/2012 at 12:01 pm | Permalink |

      What sort of human being would even listen to his show?

      • djos
        Posted 30/10/2012 at 12:19 pm | Permalink |

        The stupid kind!

        • Paul Thompson
          Posted 30/10/2012 at 5:54 pm | Permalink |

          I don’t think it is that simple. I suspect that it isn’t stupid people who listen to his show, so much as bad people.

    45. Kyan
      Posted 30/10/2012 at 12:32 pm | Permalink |

      CAN WE DO AUSTRALIA A FAVOUR AND STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS PERSON

      HE DOESN’T DESERVE TO HAVE HIS THOUGHTS MADE MORE PUBLIC AND THEY SHOULDN’T BE REACHING WIDER AUDIENCES

      INSTEAD WE SHOULD HAVE HUGE REPETITIVE DRILLED IN YOUR HEAD BORDERLINE PROPAGANDIST DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHY FIXED LINES ARE IMPORTANT AND HOW FIXED LINES PROVIDE THE ABILITY AND BACK-END FOR A WIRELESS NETWORK TO EVEN EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE

      I AM ALSO BEING IRONIC IN THIS POST. LIBERALS CANNOT DETECT IRONY.

      • James
        Posted 30/10/2012 at 12:37 pm | Permalink |

        seriously they should teach kids about the importance of fixed lines and fibre optic networks right alongside Australian history and indigenous studies

      • Alex
        Posted 05/11/2012 at 7:13 pm | Permalink |

        Kyan
        Posted 30/10/2012 at 12:32 pm | Permalink | Reply

        “CAN WE DO AUSTRALIA A FAVOUR AND STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS PERSON

        HE DOESN’T DESERVE TO HAVE HIS THOUGHTS MADE MORE PUBLIC AND THEY SHOULDN’T BE REACHING WIDER AUDIENCES

        INSTEAD WE SHOULD HAVE HUGE REPETITIVE DRILLED IN YOUR HEAD BORDERLINE PROPAGANDIST DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHY FIXED LINES ARE IMPORTANT AND HOW FIXED LINES PROVIDE THE ABILITY AND BACK-END FOR A WIRELESS NETWORK TO EVEN EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE

        I AM ALSO BEING IRONIC IN THIS POST. LIBERALS CANNOT DETECT IRONY.”

        BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    46. Harquebus
      Posted 30/10/2012 at 1:58 pm | Permalink |

      Alan Jones is an entertainer and should not be taken seriously.

      • jane
        Posted 31/10/2012 at 12:27 am | Permalink |

        Alan Jones is an entertainer and should not be taken seriously.

        Anal Jones is NOT an entertainer and should still not be taken seriously.

    47. Douglas
      Posted 30/10/2012 at 2:02 pm | Permalink |

      “I think we know enough by now not to take anything Alan Jones says seriously.”

      FTFY.

    48. Jan from S.A
      Posted 30/10/2012 at 5:41 pm | Permalink |

      WHO IS ALLAN JONES ????????

      • Posted 01/11/2012 at 10:40 am | Permalink |

        I struggle with this sometimes, I think he is on, as my grandma calls it “The Wireless” in Sydney, perhaps that is where he gets his confusion about wireless being the future…

      • NBNAlex
        Posted 08/01/2013 at 4:20 pm | Permalink |

        David’s Brother maybe ;)

    49. ewan
      Posted 31/10/2012 at 11:14 pm | Permalink |

      alan jones doesn’t understand technology. South Korea has NBN broadband policy look at the south korea economy booming. Wireless is too problematic for interference. Wireless is generally not main connection for corporate networks because wires can take more data traffic than wireless can and has more consistent speed.

    50. TechinBris
      Posted 01/11/2012 at 5:17 pm | Permalink |

      Wishing something to be so, doesn’t make it so. Someone should enlighten Jones to this. He obviously doesn’t know it.
      Also maybe the Liberal’s should change their name to a new more accurate description to what they have evolved into since the days Menzies originally named it. I think Liebral is more like it.

    51. shane
      Posted 10/11/2012 at 6:37 pm | Permalink |

      Alan Jones is one of those blokes that sees an article that agrees with his views and uses it as the basis for a rant not by qouting where it came from but saying “stories out today” or “Data from europe” or “smart people, scientist are saying today” or “there’s a report out todayby exposing the lies…”

    52. Tom
      Posted 08/01/2013 at 2:39 pm | Permalink |

      Ericsson is already in the process of testing wireless at speeds of 1gps

      http://bit.ly/W87WK7

      Alan Jones was telling the truth I think. If these developments in wireless continue then NBN will definitely be obsolete before it’s even completed.

      • Posted 08/01/2013 at 2:54 pm | Permalink |

        @Tom

        That is 1Gbps SHARED OVER THE CELL. That is, if you have 1 person on it AND the backhaul is set at 1Gbps (which, even current 4G backhaul is only 200 or 300Mbps) AND the reception is perfect AND THEY’RE STATIONARY, they get 1Gbps.

        Add 1 person, they get 500Mbps. Add 100 people, they get 10Mbps. Add 200 people (average per NBN FIXED wireless) you get 5Mbps (compared to NBNCo’s 12Mbps minimum, with 25Mbps coming- and that os on WIRELESS, not fibre)

        NOW do you understand why wireless CANNOT compete with fixed line? It is a SHARED MEDIUM. TOP speed means nothing when you have to SHARE that top speed with 200 other people (and even more if you’re in a city)

      • djos
        Posted 08/01/2013 at 3:04 pm | Permalink |

        AND they are using 60Mhz of bandwidth, most Telco’s only have 20Mhz of spectrum in each geographical are to use – that video shows them using 3x the spectrum allocated to the vast majority of worldwide telco’s!

        Hardly practical!!!

        • NBNAlex
          Posted 08/01/2013 at 4:29 pm | Permalink |

          Deaf ears gentlemen :/

          But nice posts nonetheless.

          I’m sure we will see this URL being bandied about here and other forums as to why wireless is the future, even after the above very succinct explanations why it alone, err isn’t!

          • djos
            Posted 08/01/2013 at 4:37 pm | Permalink |

            True, however it’s worth debunking these sort of claims so that innocent passers by dont get fooled into believing the FUD spread the flat-earther’s!

    53. Mike
      Posted 31/01/2013 at 10:12 pm | Permalink |

      Every seems to miss the point re the NBN. The real hidden Agenda will be complete oversight of the citizens of this nation through an almighty large collection data base. This isn’t just happening in Australia. The legislation to collect the data went through in December – so the legal imperative is now in place. All they need is the computer system. Of-course they already have access to all records where citizens interface with government departments; tax, centre link, medicare etc. Now they will know all the web sites you visit, the emails you write, the text messages you send, the phone calls you make. And it will be all linked up and so easy to push the button to get the dirt file. Why dirt files on citizens – we have already witnessed that they are not adverse to using them. They want them so they can discredit anyone who may make un-favourable comments against the government. A cross between Nazism (control & a policing of the citizens) and Communism – curtailment of freedoms across the board. Watch out – one day we wake up and it’s too late. And oh this ‘white elephant will cost double the $45Billion originally mooted – but we are always kept in the dark about these things. PS I am a swinging voter, but feed up with the stupid, die hard ,mentally incorrect thinking labourites who just don’t seem to have a clue. – your opinions are stupid and not welcome.

      • Haderak
        Posted 02/04/2013 at 10:38 am | Permalink |

        None of the dystopian ‘hidden agendas’ you have referenced actually require the NBN. Every single one can be (and is) easily accomplished with current pre-NBN technology.

        You’re already living in your nightmare.

        You should have been conspiracy-theorising about high-def surveillance cameras. Yeah! Now we’re talking! Massively networked realtime surveillance cameras, highjacked and hooked into biometric / kinesthetic recognition algorithms running on botnets!

        BOO!

        But hey, that’s the price we’re all fully expecting to pay for a world-beating telecommunications network suitable for backstopping our nation’s economic prosperity for the next century.

        FYI – I suspect that most of the dedicated posters here would happily switch their vote to the Coalition if their broadband ‘alternative’ wasn’t such a rancid soft turd.




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