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The reaction I’ve been looking for is the reporting about it on ABC. Absolutely fricken crickets!
Hopefully Labor will jam this in the mix during the weekend as I see MSM (including the ABC) are trying to prove Shorten is wrong in that Malcolm doesn’t have a policy to privatise medicare and they. want to kill the scare campaign.
Weird that all the focus is on Shorten to prove himself here, not actually test out either sides policies.
I’ve got to admit that was a pleasant surprise, I was sure they’d go talk to Graham lynch type lib shill and declare Jason’s statement misleading or some other weasel appraisal.
The reaction I’ve been looking for is the reporting about it on ABC. Absolutely fricken crickets!
Brexit seems to have overwhelmed everything today.
One thing about Brexit I did find is an affect that it could have on Malcolm Turnbull’s investments in Spanish-based Telefonica and Orange (formally Telecom France). LoL!
> Hopefully Labor will jam this in the mix during the weekend
Doubtful as this article Do Australians even care about NBN explains:
“It seems illogical to be opposed to the “best” technology, but most Australians — the very people the NBN is being built for — simply don’t care.”
Which is very clearly highlighted by 84% connecting at 25Mbps or slower.
Leith Elliott captures the damge of speed tiers succinctly here:
“I’ve been thinking this too. In retrospect I agree the public would not have been fooled into thinking that the MTM could have provided a similar service, as it wouldn’t have been even close.”
Yes thanks Mathew, like we haven’t heard that (ad nausea, ad infinitum) before.
Do you actually play another tune or do you only know the one?
Well one, since you completely abandoned the previous only tune you had daily for the last 5 years… 50/12…
How’s that going for you, BTW?
You’re welcome
Leith Elliott captures the….stuff
Oh, do they Mathew, that’s interesting…..*yawn*
What are they, or even you, going to do about it? Bitch about Labor on the internet? Yeah, that’ll bring change /rolleyes
“Which is very clearly highlighted by 84% connecting at 25Mbps or slower”
But since 600 million homes are to be on gigabit networks by 2020, the short term choices are irrelevant.
Chirp , chirp.. Quigley who?
Tony abbot told Malcom to destroy the nbn not change DESTORY tells you everything you need to know. They where not ever interested in helping Australia and where never going to do anything until labor did it.
Renai I think you have this in reverse?
Instead, the Minister’s habit of playing the ball and not the man was out in full force yesterday
He slandered Mike didn’t he?
Cheers, fixed.
?
How do you get the “thumb up” icon Derek?
Just by using normal emojis on my iPhone or Mac (command + control + space).
Ps I suspect delimiter is now using UTF-8 as emojis only started working in the comments recently.
If you are on Windows activate the Touch Keyboard on the taskbar. You will find them in there. ?
If you are on Windows activate the Touch Keyboard on the taskbar. You will find them in there. ?
? ? ?
Cool, ta guys
I think this bit:
“Minister’s habit of playing the ball and not the man”
is the wrong way around – the Coalition preferentially play the man, not the ball, preferring to put down their opponents rather than demonstrate why the LNP are a better alternative.
If Labor don’t make mileage off this, their campaign strategists should be fired…
Ah yes, will fix.
Cheers. :)
If technologists continually speak the truth in public about flawed projects such as the NBN, then we will change the nature of the public debate
@Renai, I agree wholeheartedly but how the hell do we get organisations like Telsoc, Intenet Australia, CCC and even ACS to get off the fence and shout from the roof tops so loudly that the MSM etc hear them?
To date they’ve mostly sat on the fence much to my and likely others dismay.
The way to get these kind of associations involved is to join as a member and then start emailing their executives and board members asking for action on the NBN.
Good point, how about an article highlighting the various orgs agendas to help us make an informed decision on which one would best suit us?
E.g. I’m a major incident manager so I assume Telsoc is more for engineers?
Maybe ask Daniel to do an article on where they all stand and contact info Renai? I found the recent ACS one rather interesting (they seem to have changed a bit since my uni days).
ACS? Liberal Party hen house.
Hardly any techs. Very low membership. They think they are the IT professional body but they are deluded.
Remember Edward Mandla?
Agreed, last time I looked into then they seemed more interested in facilitating 457 visas for companies than helping Australian ICT workers.
Yeah! And take a guess who grabs the loot to skills test them with the governments blessing
That is some professional representative body with a massive conflict of interest!
Yep, that’s it exactly, only severing their own interests, the industry be dammed!
On an annual basis the ACS published the ICT Trade Update.
The 2002 report found that the trade deficit spiraled up to $14.4 billion.
Richard Alston slammed the report as “alarmist”…. “little more than a superficial and simplistic stunt peddling discredited 19th century mercantilist dogma that all imports are bad and all exports are good.” blah blah blah
The 2009 report shows that the trade deficit hit $28 billion.
By 2002 I had enough and shut down my IT consulting & contracting company and fled the country with what I had left in 2005!
The problem is that technologists either haven’t spoken the truth or haven’t taken the time to become informed.
Technologists should have been outraged by the impact of speed tiers on the NBN 7 years ago, but selfishly chose to remain silent overcome by lust for a cheap FTTP connection. The result of that is MTM and 84% connected at 25Mbps or slower.
Are they Labor technologists or just technologists with no political affiliation…. I think u need to be specific because that’s could mean the number of ‘bastards’ screwing us over speed tiers could be significantly larger than previously dreamed of by you….. Possibly more than 1%!
We do NOT have political affiliations. We regard negative politics and rapid advance of technology a poisonous mix which hinders innovation, development and progress.
My company, which I founded in 2005 as a startup, is located in this area.
Now I’m intrigued as to what that company is!
Technologists should have been outraged by the impact of speed tiers on the NBN 7 years ago
Should they? Why? And why is the NBN different to all the other “speed tier” technologies?
I look forward to you answer Mathew, honestly.
Why do you keep harping on about speed tiers when not once have I seen you address the reason that they exist. Here’s a hint a lot of it has to do with competing with existing technology and improvements in wireless technology, the NBN would be more expensive for all but the highest tier of users without them. The only thing that screwed it all up was the PoI decision and I think it was a mistake not to rethink the pricing model in response.
“The result of that is MTM and 84% connected at 25Mbps or slower”
But as the majority of the planet will be on gigabit networks very soon, this weeks choices are quite beside the point.
You can expect them to stay this way indefinitely, or until Malcolm Turnbull and the political bullshit is blown into oblivion!
The FTTH Council holds regular expos and conferences around the world. I have attended a few of these, the last one was in Luxembourg. Australia never got a mention. However New Zealand’s initiatives were praised. I will be attending the next one in Marseille, France in February next year. http://www.ftthcouncil.eu/
But it felt like taboo that someone would say these facts in public.
Indeed but it has been like that since the very beginning. The problem was those opposed to the correct FttP rollout were told it was going to be a clusterfuck and did not listen.
So now it’s 2016 and what was promised to them by the coalition clowns, what they told us the coalition clowns would do for us simply isn’t happening and the NBN is an even bigger mess than we anticipated. It’s clearly apparent that the sensible option, the LOGICAL thing to do would have been to continue the proper NBN rollout as planned.
But think about all those articles from the simpletons at Noise ltd etc, those with a political agenda, obviously they don’t want to bring attention to it now.
Indeed but it has been like that since the very beginning. The problem was those opposed to the correct FttP rollout were told it was going to be a clusterfuck and did not listen.
I know right. We were told we need slower speeds sooner by the copper fanboy knuckle draggers. It was of paramount importance to roll out a slow network quicker than the correct FttP network. That is why the coalition clowns promised 25mbps for all by the end of 2016 (187 days to go!). The speed is slower than 1gbps so it must be faster to rollout… or so they thought, so they fooled the copper fanboy knuckle draggers…
Then reality slaps them in the face.
Fuck all for two years. Advice to continue correct FttP roll out ignored. Look where we are now. Patchwork network clusterfuck town. A fucking disaster by every measure (just as I predicted) the correct FttP end goal disrupted for idiotic political reasons and instead of apologising to us and admitting they were wrong they make excuses and defend it instead.
We were told we need slower speeds sooner by the copper fanboy knuckle draggers. It was of paramount importance to roll out a slow network quicker than the correct FttP network.
Exactly.
I noticed a new report up on BuddeComm, a couple of quotes for you from the key developments section:
– FttX held only a 22% market share of global broadband access technologies in 2013, but by 2016 this had increased to around 47% at the expense of DSL which is in decline.
– By mid 2015 there were 148 countries which had a national broadband network plan or strategy in place.
– Fibre networks have become a key investment area and most international high-speed broadband network projects are now based around FttP.
– Global broadband prices are declining in many markets around the world, making it more affordable and more obtainable to the greater population.
Kinda makes you wonder what the RotW knows that Malcolm doesn’t…
From Wiki…
JAPAN: – “FTTH was introduced in 1999 and substantial growth began in 2001.
In 2003–2004, FTTH accelerated, while DSL stagnated. DSL peaked in March 2006. 10.5 million FTTH connections were reported in September 2007.
On 17 September 2008, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications reported that FTTH connections (13.08 million connections) eclipsed DSL (12.29 million connections and declining) and became the most popular method of broadband connection at 45% of the total.
And here we are with copper obsolescence in 2016 and beyond.
*shrugs*
BUT is it enough to change peoples minds, when those who control the levers of much of the media, and definitely a good portion of the business world, are against a shift to the ALP as the governing party while the LNP they prefer cannot consider the humble pie required to be eaten to admit the folly of MTM in any way shape or form.
The legacy of Abbott the destroyer is alive and well, and if the Australian people return the LNP we will have strengthened the arguments politically that the MTM solution is the one the majority of Australians want.
“Truths like: Copper cables are obsolete technology.”
Ah that alexism returns:
obsolete : technology used by millions and generates billions in income every year.
“Truths like: Australia’s broadband needs are increasing at an exponential rate.”
Cisco predicts “broadband speeds will nearly double by 2020. By 2020, global fixed broadband speeds will reach 47.7 Mbps, up from 24.7 Mbps in 2015”.
Well within today’s copper technologies capabilities.
“Truths like: Fibre is the only viable long-term fixed telecommunications technology.”
Claimed since the 80s, yet plenty of alternatives used today and upgrades actively undertaken for long term.
Activate research and improvements in alternative delivery preciously unimaginable advances (denied by a few, even when commercial products available.
“I know all of these facts very well.”
Hmm…
Yep, let’s waste billions building a national network that barely meets today’s needs….
Your shortsighted bean counter mindset continues to amaze…
I disagree with ‘barely meets today’s needs’.
I have FTTN (NBN) at home and it is meeting my needs very well. Appreciate it won’t do that in the long term, but in terms of needs right now it works well.
The word ‘barely’ is perhaps a stretch. It suits the majority of users’ current needs.
The biggest problem with that though is that the people’s needs it doesn’t meet are the ones who are willing to pay a premium for higher speeds, and make a disproportionately large slice of the network’s revenue…
Meets predicted needs as well. Options available for the few higher demand.
Customer demanded speeds are today known, data published. Your revenue claim is unsupported (vast majority of revenue from lowest two speed tiers).
Add NBNCo 1.05mbps / customer CVC any the potential for growth on even the lowest speed tiers obvious.
The biggest problem with that though is that the people’s needs it doesn’t meet are the ones who are willing to pay a premium for higher speeds, and make a disproportionately large slice of the network’s revenue…
Nailed it. Actually conservative estimates showed that most of the revenue would have been generated by speeds 50/20mbps and higher from 2017 onwards, 100/40mbps and higher from 2020 onwards and 250/100mbps from 2025 onwards. Coalition clowns & GimpCo done fucked up big time.
We’d go on to discuss Brisy line’s analysis of the “conservative estimates” using actuals ( 8th year of the company with 1m users ). But sadly he hasn’t performed any.
Wow, actuals showing NBNCo is significantly underperforming their “conservative estimates” (all techs). Curse numbers;-)
Wow, actuals showing NBNCo is significantly underperforming their “conservative estimates” (all techs). Curse numbers;-)
Yeah, the LPA really screwed the pooch on the FttN numbers, didn’t they :o)
Apart from the 100/40, the FttP numbers are actually tracking pretty well.
Thanks for the charts!
“Meets predicted needs as well”
You mean it is capable of Gigabit connections for all by 2020?
Whew…that is a relief.
@mr ~80% of paying customer agree with you across all fixed line techs. Existing scoop for them to double their AVC, orders of magnitude greater CVC.
Care to publish your sync speed and cable distance to node?
“I have FTTN (NBN) at home and it is meeting my needs very well.”
Your antedocal experience on a residential connection is not the big picture
Entrepreneurs are generally very small businesses trying to develop new businesses. It is those small businesses of 2-3 people who can end up 200-300 and all with high paying jobs which feeds other industries.
Case Studies
Independent radiographer who needs to transfer large medical images and patient records to GPs, hospitals and specialists. A CT scan of abdomen or pelvis is 500-600 images. Just one 3D breast imaging (Tomosynthesis) are 10GB files. Do you think they have time to wait for transfers?
3D Printing applications. Architecture & Medical
Robot Arm using 3D printers for construction projects
A small company called Feetz makes 3D customisable shoes. The customer uses an specialised app on a mobile phone to photograph feet which is sent for processing. The business requires high bandwidth and servers to accomplish this.
How is your teleconferencing going for you.
What about Virtual Reality which is used in education? With high speed broadband students can have immersive learning experience, visit museums and other places around the world.
Australians have a lot to learn about Internet usage.
+1
Here are some more case studies for those, who sit in wonder, what Gigabit broadband is used for. They cover applications for Education & Workforce, Energy, Transportation, Advanced Manufacturing, Public Safety, Health and various other general categories.
The continuous monotonous bleats of “there are no applications currently available for commercial gigabit connectivity” is pure bullshit!
Suck it up!!
Hey, Richard, go do some reading on statistics, so you can understand why a technology that just meets ‘average’ demand will be a pitiful failure…
Except that Labor forecast that for almost 50% will continue to choose speeds that are easily provided by FTTN.
So yes FTTN is incapable of delivering the benefits of the NBN promised by Labor, but then Labor only promised to deliver those benefits to an elite few (<1% in 2026 on 1Gbps) so why does the average person care?
Except that Labor forecast that for almost 50% will continue to choose speeds that are easily provided by FTTN.
And according to Cisco, up until shortly before 2020.
Great value we’ll get from that “up to” $56b!! Four fantastic years!! Classic ;-)
“Except that Labor forecast”
Strike one…Labor made no forecast.
“for almost 50% will continue to choose speeds that are easily provided by FTTN”
Do you mean your famous 50% will choose 12/1 silliness?
Strike Two…
“but then Labor only promised to deliver those benefits to an elite few”
Nope…that was a worst case scenario for a corporate plan that showed that even if everything went to Hell, it would still work fine.
Strike Three…you are OUTTA there!
Except that Labor
Do you get paid per post Mat?
Hi Richard,
“technology unwillingly used by millions and generates billions in income every year”
“Well within today’s copper technologies capabilities.”
“plenty of alternatives unwillingly used today”
I fixed that for you :)
The reality is that there is no reason not to base Australia’s future telecommunications platform entirely on fibre. It is the only available technology that will meet all future demands, it’s within the cost envelope, and it will even fuel the rollout of faster 4G/5G etc mobile technologies.
No reason, that is, aside from political reasons ;)
Smacked down
@ Renai
Now that was a long time coming!!!!!!! – and long overdue.
Well done…….
Alfred
“The reality is that there is no reason not to base Australia’s future telecommunications platform entirely on fibre.”
Ah cost and time to deploy. Two very big reasons, and why copper based alternatives are very popular.
Argue the additional costs and time are worth it, but seems many are stuck with Quigley’s delusional claim FTTH doesn’t cost any more or take longer.
Perhaps some figures?
Ah cost and time to deploy. Two very big reasons, and why copper based alternatives are very popular.
Where? Perhaps some graphs showing FttN roll outs worldwide Vs FttP roll outs worldwide showing how “very popular” it actually is would be in order Richard?
He should be sure to include those where the incumbent has purchased one or more copper networks too imho.
Because leveraging an existing paid off asset vs buying a second hand one outright are two very different things.
@sm not different when you acquire the assets for zero!
TM denying FTTN/B/C’s popularity? Not surprised.
Richard denying that the popularity of companies once building FTTN are now building FTTP instead.
TM denying FTTN/B/C’s popularity? Not surprised.
That wasn’t a statement, it was a question (questions are denoted by this mark Richard “?”). I was asking you for your evidence.
Evidence I guess you just don’t have, which would explain why you are trying to avoid an answer to that which was asked…
Certainly seems that way Jason K
Compare the total ownership cost and you will see that FTTN is far more expensive.
As to time, currently FTTP is being rolled out at over 25,000/week…and that is without any of the new methods being used. Do the math…
Keep in mind that the speeds using skinny fibre could double that without trying hard.
I fixed that for you :)
RR destroyed again by truth bombs but you should have expected his irrationality when you put “Quigley” in the article title Renai.
Look sunshine, it works like this.
Today and last night have been a winter downpour with added sleet. I have fibre to the home internet. I am safe that the water will not harm my internet connection. However if I had copper, especially the copper that Ziggy Switkowski said in 2004 was ruined and at 5 minutes to midnight, then the rain could corrode and get into the copper and harm my internet speed. Indeed, in forums people say that their copper/adsl internet in rainy weather is knocked out for days.
So it’s not just about numbers – it’s about what is BETTER.
look squealer, experienced that same rain and sleet yet my 1.8km copper connection was unaffected (like millions of others). FTTN areas survived the east coast flooding. How was any of that possible? (Rofl)
You do realise Richard, that whenever you use the term squealer, you only make yourself look histrionic and desperate, don’t you? Anyone that has to resort to ad hominem attacks has lost the argument, regardless of what other data they may come up with. People stop listening at that point, whether the data is valid or not.
That’s the main reason why nobody gives you any credibility. This will continue unless you change tactics.
Naturally, the same can be said in reverse (i.e. the people who engage with you who in frustration have also used ad hominem attacks), but unless something does change, you’re at an impasse, and you have no salient point to make beyond a thinly (very thin) veiled troll.
Throw it and it may be returned. Enjoying the irony;-)
Which irony would that be?
You do realise Richard, that whenever you use the term squealer, you only make yourself look histrionic and desperate, don’t you?
He’s projecting. No surprise that the biggest squealer here (actually the only one) is RR. Just look at the all effort he put into responding in this article. It’s about Quigley so naturally his jealously manifests itself in squealing pig form.
look squealer, experienced that same rain and sleet yet my 1.8km copper connection was unaffected (like millions of others). FTTN areas survived the east coast flooding. How was any of that possible? (Rofl)
Right…your “copper connection”….
Some of us are listening; my link to SkyMuster connection issues last couple days went unremarked.
Which is it? Or do you love the LPA MtM so much you decided to collect the whole set LOL
Copper Satellite…Classic ;-)
Reference to a Hytertext link TM understands as a satellite connections. Classic;-)
Reference to a Hytertext link TM understands as a satellite connections.
LOL, the way you mangle the language it’s amazing anyone actually understands you ;o)
LOL, the way you mangle the language it’s amazing anyone actually understands you
His vague comments at the very least require a translator. I checked Google translate but sadly they don’t have a CFKD to English option.
Fiber to the home has other advantages as well
A single copper pair conductor can carry six phone calls. A single fiber pair can carry more than 2.5 million phone calls simultaneously
Resistance to electromagnetic interference. Fiber has a very low rate of bit error, as a result of fiber being so resistant to electromagnetic interference. Fiber-optic transmission are virtually noise free.
Early detection of cable damage and secure transmissions. Fiber provides an extremely secure transmission medium, as there is no way to detect the data being transmitted by “listening in” to the electromagnetic energy “leaking” through the cable, as is possible with traditional, electron-based transmissions. By constantly monitoring an optical network and by carefully measuring the time it takes light to reflect down the fiber, splices in the cable can be easily detected.
Other advantages include:
Reliability – Bandwidth – Affordability – Future Proofing – Standards – Security – Economic Development – Wireless & Mobile Backhaul & Fronthaul, Next Gen Applications such as Machine-To-Machine, Internet of Things, Cloud Computing – Public Safety – Education – Telemedicine – Innovation – Entrepreneurship
FTTH has many advantages (acknowledged by everyone), however CPP and speed of delivery are not (important for this policy folly).
BULLSHIT!
ITU-T approved 40Gbps approved the G.989 series of standards for 40 Gbps-capable passive optical networks (NG-PON2) in March this year.
At the first official launch In Tasmania in 2010, Gillard & Conroy remarked that the NBN will be able to support gigabit speeds sometime in the future.
Fact – Gigabit Passive Optical Network standard (GPON) is deployed and fundamental part of the original network design
“speed of delivery” SC reads as a challenge to GPON performance; so random posts to irrelevant articles, squeals “birdbrain”, “numpty”. Classic;-)
Having a great time watching you with your dick in the mouth of the dead pig.
How is the blue rinse set knitting group going for you at the Nursing Home?
Keep humping it you fake!!!!
What if speeds triple by 2020? What about upload speeds Richard? How many people can actually get those speeds if they needed it? Your comment is invalid!
our $20+b (20% complete) NBN delivers 1.05mbps / customer sustained. Plenty of room for growth. Popular to protest uploads speeds but actuals aren’t showing the hypothesed demand. YouTube hamster stares don’t require much upload.
Like the claimed 2-3 new power stations, wrong sized copper, …
AWS doesn’t “require” reliable, fast uploads from residences. A major reason data centres exist.
It doe require fast uploads if you want to create your content and services locally, and scale your IT services globally.
Prime examples, uploading video, and machine images if you want to get things done in a timely manner. I suggest you do a little more research about this before attempting to be so flippant. AWS has the capability to be the data centre for any business.
I’ve got 500+ photos I’m trying to backup from my iPhone over ADSL2 right now, it’s going to take fucking weeks!
Upload is key to backing up anything and to working productively over VPN (which right now is danged painful!).
Murdoch (taking a break patrolling injustice to squealers; or likely a different approach given the foul abuse ignored by others in this very thread) suggests I “do a little more research about this before attempting to be so flippant. ”
Flippant their shallowness deserves.
Even in its 8th year, NBNCo doesn’t have a business product; pathetic QOS (ask Brisy boy to explain;-), no business SLA (maybe Rizz), high contention (Tinman?). Yet this their proposed comms platform to realise their commercial visions.
Hey, what would I know? (Rofl)
“Flippant their shallowness deserves.”
Not in this case. Copper figher’s point is valid. You’re currently looking at high single figure uploads (at least) for any image upload. I can’t speak with much authority on video, because it’s all dependent on your mix and presentation, but anything of any substantial length the 1 Mbps just isn’t going to cut it.
You talk about growth … but that scalability problem disappears with FTTH. It’s no longer a factor.
“Even in its 8th year, NBNCo doesn’t have a business product”
Business products are not what wholesale providers are concerned with. NBNCo offers a bitstream service. All users of their connections are treated the same, within the structure that they have set up. Can you order a connection from NBN today? No. You order from an ISP. If you want a “business” connection, you are more than welcome to order from another retailer who uses different infrastructure than NBNCo’s. There isn’t any? Then you’re out of luck. But that’s no different from today, without NBNCo.
“pathetic QOS”
That’s a moving target, entirely dependent on the perception, rather than actual performance. How can I say this? Because if NBNCo haven’t delivered what they promised, you are entitled to sue their backsides in court.
“no business SL”
Doesn’t exist for consumer connections today. Other providers can be engaged for this. Nothing has changed in this regard.
“high contention”
For what connections are you talking about?
“Hey, what would I know?”
If you added context, I might be able to make a determination on that. But without context, you could be talking out your backside for all I know. As such, the credibility of your argument suffers.
you could be talking out your backside for all I know.
Given his history safe to assume.
@m users on NBNCo’s bitstream are not treated the same; read about traffic classes. QOS doesn’t mean what you (or Hubert) thinks it does. RSP can’t engage other providers for a business SLA for NBNCo’s network, and they NBNCo doesn’t offer one. Contention (AVC / CVC) figures known for ~1m NBNCo customers, clearly consumer product.
There must be one FTTHer with at least the basics. But where?
LOL…”Look Ma, everyone else is marching out of step!!”
Interested in learning more about his upper class-4:-)
I am (and asked you about it). I admitted the document on that is as clear as mud, but you didn’t bother responding…too eager to throw mud I guess?
As usual, you’re a disappointment…
“users on NBNCo’s bitstream are not treated the same”
Sure they are. They all fall within NBNCo’s structure, which includes traffic classes.
“QOS doesn’t mean what you (or Hubert) thinks it does”
It means exactly what I think it does. Perhaps you need to either comprehend what I’m saying, or if you’re unsure, ask me to clarify.
“RSP can’t engage other providers for a business SLA for NBNCo’s network”
You’re right. But that’s not what I was suggesting. You can get a business connection … just not on NBNCo’s network. If there’s no other competing network in that footprint, you’re out of luck though. But that’s no different than today. That’s what I was saying.
“Contention (AVC / CVC) figures known for ~1m NBNCo customers, clearly consumer product.”
Can I please get your definition of what you consider “consumer” vs “business”?
“ask TM for traffic class explanation?”
Don’t need it. I got educated about TC’s 1-4 quite some time ago. Being an engineer myself, I found it interesting.
By the way, you ridiculing Tinman for referring to TC-4 as “upper class” when you have neither questioned him for what he meant, or his request that you “educate” him on it (a request for context by him) …. pretty disingenuous Richard.
It means exactly what I think it does. Perhaps you need to either comprehend what I’m saying, or if you’re unsure, ask me to clarify.
It means exactly what I think it means too Murdoch. Funny story I never brought up the topic of QoS. RR did but as always he has a habit of misrepresenting what others say and taking what is said out of context when the debate doesn’t go his way. Still thinks 12/1mbps is high speed “bubububu QoS” he squeals.
That or as you allude to a failure on his part to comprehend even the basics.
By the way, you ridiculing Tinman for referring to TC-4 as “upper class” when you have neither questioned him for what he meant, or his request that you “educate” him on it (a request for context by him) …. pretty disingenuous Richard.
He’s ridiculing me because the “Product Description
NBN Co Ethernet Bitstream Service” description lists CVC TC-4 as having ” bandwidth profiles” from 0 – 10,000 and seems to think everyone should just know why (or doesn’t actually know why himself).
RR did but as always he has a habit of misrepresenting what others say and taking what is said out of context when the debate doesn’t go his way.
It’s his “modus operandi” unfortunately Hubert, it’s how he appears “knowledgeable” on the intertubes, even though he doesn’t have a clue himself…being people counter “developer”…SQUeeeeeeel!!
Beat you to it Ricky! Classic ;-)
100Gbps 100G-PON Passive Optical Network Standard will be ITU-T approved well before 2020. Huawei claimed the break-though two years ago.
If you had read and comprehended the technical details provided in the 100G-PON breakthrough article you will find that the NBN FTTH network is not stuck exclusively with GPON!
“FTTN & HFC are like Vacuum Tubes (electronics)”
Show me the reference to this assertion!
If you had read and comprehended the technical details of any number of copper breakthroughs (g.fast, newer VDSL2 profiles, DOCSIS3.1+) articles you will find that the NBN FTTN / HFC networks are not stuck exclusively with VDSL2 30a / DOCSIS3.0!
“If you had read and comprehended the technical details of any number of copper breakthroughs (g.fast, newer VDSL2 profiles, DOCSIS3.1+) articles you will find that the NBN FTTN / HFC networks are not stuck exclusively with VDSL2 30a / DOCSIS3.0!”
They are regarded as INTERIM technologies implemented on EXISTING networks which Australia does not have because it missed the boat last century! They are also incompatible and expensive to implement and maintain because multiple network technologies are involved. You will soon find this out the hard way.
They are also now regarded as redundant technologies in United States as it is flat out removing all signs of the outdated telephone network and moving towards 100% IP. (See FCC’s IP Transition)
Try your low-level thinking out on AT&T, Verizon, CenturyLink and Comcast, Orange (formally Telecom France) & Spanish based Telefonica. They will laugh at you and tell you to piss off!
INTERIM – I already know you don’t know the meaning of the word!
Your brain is so tiny that you fail to understand FUTURE PROOFING & UBIQUITOUS computing & networks.
In October 2015 EPB Chattanooga upgraded their city-wide 1Gbps enabled GPON/FTTH network which went live in 2010, to Alcatel-Lucent’s TWDM-PON technology to make 10Gbps available.
Now the burning question is …. WHY do you think they did this upgrade?
I’ll get back once I have finished my current R&D project on my brand new Microsoft Hololens Development Kit.
FTTN/B/C & DOCSIS upgardes required as solid investments by many (millions of customers using the tech); offering customer demanded speeds to save significant money and speed delivery with infrastructure reuse.
All techs mention 100% IP.
I’m sure they’ll be at least eloquent. AT&T operates the worlds largest network using these copper techs.
My tiny brain knows fibre’s light to bits isn’t layer-2.
Many reason areas use FTTH; obvious choice for greenfields / rebuilding after natural disasters / removal of exchanges / high revenue demographics / business parks / etc. sometimes it’s just a trial.
Hololens experiences likely more enlightening.
“FTTN/B/C & DOCSIS upgardes required as solid investments by many (millions of customers using the tech); offering customer demanded speeds to save significant money and speed delivery with infrastructure reuse.
INVALID
Even cable company Comcast are rolling out FTTH (2Gbps) to increase footprint while upgrading existing cable to meet customer demand and legal definition of Broadband (Minimum 25.5)!!
All techs mention 100% IP.
INVALID
100% IP is in the Connect America National Broadband Plan announced by the FCC and U.S. Congress in 2010.
I’m sure they’ll be at least eloquent. AT&T operates the worlds largest network using these copper techs.
INVALID
AT&T are currently deploying 1Gbps FTTH to a target 100 cities. They also petitioned the FCC in 2012 to put legislation in place to remove copper network as it is cumbersome and expensive to maintain!!!
My tiny brain knows fibre’s light to bits isn’t layer-2.
INVALID
Encryption/Decryption is carried out on Layer 2 you moron
YOU MUST KEEP UP BACKWATER BOY.
Richard
You are a master at wallowing in your political excrement.
You carry on like some zombie with your bandied about technical terms in your fearful conservative fantasy world. Your comments are loaded with misleading and false statements and a huge variety of misquotes and three word quotes taken out of a entire paragraph from articles and comments from others to suit your nutjob tendencies.
It is very apparent the you have never read the GPON standard ever since the ITU-T published them. Not even it’s fundamentals
You even wanted to argue that GPON is Layer 1 – Physical, when it is in reality specified as Layer 2 – Data Layer specification which carries the frames. It is this Layer 2 Ethernet service that NBNCo provides to the network boundaries. LoL
Try and argue this one out with ITU-T. Its their standards approval. Go on. I bet you don’t have the guts you coward.
You even had the gall to ask me to apologise to you. FFS! I wouldn’t stop down to your primal slime level you arrogant useless piece of shit! You are a fake.
You are a hero in your own mind. I think you should seek professional help! ;-)
Apologize and move on.
Try the blue rinse set crotchet forums.
FTTN was made obsolete decades before it was even invented!
I agreed GPON covered layers-1&2, but that wasn’t SC’s claim. “light to bits” isn’t layer-2, period.
Reflect. Apologise. Move on.
Richard
Did they let you out of the nursing home today?
You senile old prick!!
Yet another eloquent contribution.
@ Richard,
Sorry I’ve damaged you to such a degree that you are compelled to mention me at every one of your “jealous rages”, even when I’m not here/commenting, Richard…
It must be another flat earther flaw (amongst many), as the other trusty follower here even refers to other posters as me, for the same reason…
Obviously you cultists who live in that bubble have pretty thin skin and hold a grudge, when people such as me use your own stupid comments to embarrass you…
You’re welcome.
@SnowCrash
I thought you were arguing that residential users didn’t need 1Gbps connections in response to my comments that Labor were targeting less than 1% on 1Gbps in 2026.
Does it matter how fast a car can go if are driving it on a road with a 25Km/hr speed limit?
Your comment is invalid.
Your comment is invalid!
Nailed it.
Yes Richard
Cisco predicts “broadband speeds will nearly double by 2020. By 2020, global fixed broadband speeds will reach 47.7 Mbps, up from 24.7 Mbps in 2015”.
But Turnbull only aiming for 25Mbps half of what the rest of the world will be by the time it’s finish
HFC (4m premises passed) will comfortably deliver 47.7mbps.
Pair bonding, newer profiles options for 10% possible (if desired; outside current policy).
The glaring omissions will be Satellite (0.4m) and LTE (0.6m). Curse you Turnbull;-)
Is Turnbull SOE delivering more than 25Mbps.
But it’s funny how you place lab grade expectation on the FTTN. NBN doesn’t test the copper speed unless you pay $250 for a professional install or complain about the poor speed.
Sure, not like there’s any realworld data today known;-) funny how easy numbers destroy the fanboy positions.
It’s given most here will need a professional install. When one knows so little, best to leave it to others.
Lol Richard
Like you using ofcom report claiming FTTN gets within 10% of the advertised speed when it only tested 20 users
Link to the post jk. Evidence is typically unkind to the squealer’s imagined positron
Ofcom typically measure Internet throughput, not NBNCo capacity. Talked about for several years, one day they might actually learn about it.
Richard, pair bonding is pointless when the nodes are under provisioned with 1/1 gbps backhaul to the FAN!
Not like fibre is already provisioned for 20ge;-)
I thought we’d (cough) identified node components and installed fibre.
Richard, the FAN AAS switches themselves are only served by 2x 10GE backhaul to the POI to upgrading the Node backhaul so 10GE or 20GE is not a simple exercise. The AAS Switches themselves may even require replacement depending on their internal capacity. (see the NBN design rules doc)
So that leaves us with the following minimum required upgrades to support the nodes @ 10GE or better:
2x 10GE SFP’s per Node (the cheap part)
4x 100GE SFP modules per AAS (the expensive part upgrading to 40GE would be inadequate)
And depending on how cheap NBN co were, they’d need new very expensive AAS switches per FAN that support 100GE (eg the Cisco Catalyst 6880 series which are about $50k each) and have sufficient internal bandwidth to support the aggregation traffic.
Richard, ignore the Catalyst 6880 reference, Im not sure that’s a good example of an aggregation switch in the context of a FAN.
EDIT: it’d probably be something more like the Juniper Networks QFX5100 range of Fibre aggregation switch but with 100GE support.
Right. Contention exists throughout the network.
People like Gregory squeal 10-GPON (SC 100-GPON) when transit and RSP backhaul can’t handle anywhere near that volume of data (imagine the CVC charges).
As I posted when discussing 7330 components; 1ge installed SPF (if confirmed) would surprise me given the cost differential, however 1ge capacity is actually much larger than today’s requirements and upgrade fibre is already laid to 1) expand to max 20ge and 2) upgrade to GPON.
The cost to upgrade capacity across the network to handle node’s max 20ge capacity would be (as you point out) very expensive. It won’t happen in the nodes lifetime; available revenue can’t even pay for what’s deployed today ($20+b “invested” so far for expected FY16 revenue of $~300m & -$~2b loss).
Investing even more into ubiquitous fibre (CPP 2-3x) will exacerbate the waste (already tens of billions).
Richard, sure contention exists in all networks, the issue here is that the L2 backhaul contention in FTTN is literally 15x greater than that of the GPON network!!
When it’s that bad on FTTN the RSP CVC issue is secondary!
FWIW I dont agree with the AVC/CVC model either.
15x a non-issue is the same non-issue.
RSP’s have provisioned (actuals, known) an avg TC-4 of 1.05mbps / customer (sample ~1m). No amount of additional NBNCo capacity (last mile or transit; expensive) will alter this bottleneck.
Actuals show customer speed preference (80+% and growing) <=25mbps with high contention. Dollars talk, they demonstrate they're not prepared to pay more (sure they say they want more, but for free;-).
That crash you may hear is fantasy hitting reality. If not wait a while.
You are setting up strawmen again Richard, debating you is pointless, you just turn Delimiter into a fire hazard!
Where’s their safe space;-)
HFC (4m premises passed) will comfortably deliver 47.7mbps.
FTTB (1m) no issues (100/40).
FTTN (3.5m) 60% copper length <=400m (100/40), 90% <= 750m (50/10), max length ~1.1km (25/5), Pair bonding, newer profiles options for 10% possible (if desired; outside current policy).</q?
The glaring omissions will be Satellite (0.4m) and LTE (0.6m). Curse you Turnbull;-)
Actually, the glaring omission was where you had to give both a formula and a proviso for FttN. Classic ;-)
Ah that alexism [sic] returns: obsolete : technology used by millions and generates billions in income every year.?
As are horses, millions still ride them and billions are made and lost on them daily (they don’t use them to get to work…or shopping…or…). Should we bring back the horse into widespread usage Richard? Is your case “stick with the obsolete”?
Cisco predicts “broadband speeds will nearly double by 2020. By 2020, global fixed broadband speeds will reach 47.7 Mbps, up from 24.7 Mbps in 2015”.
Well within today’s copper technologies capabilities.
What do they predict after 2020 Richard? Does it mention that in 4 years time people on the end of a loop from a FttN node will be left at the back of the class/pack as they’re bandwidth needs increase, or will something magical happen where they just wont need bandwidth any more?
“Truths like: Fibre is the only viable long-term fixed telecommunications technology.”
Claimed since the 80s, yet plenty of alternatives used today and upgrades actively undertaken for long term.
Activate research and improvements in alternative delivery preciously [sic] unimaginable advances (denied by a few, even when commercial products available.
Yes, advances that are now at the upper edge of physics that require people to get closer and closer to the node (fibre) to work, they’ve done very well pushing the envelope up till now. What new technology is on the horizon that will make fibre obsolete Richard?
“I know all of these facts very well.”
Hmm…
Indeed.
Classic :-)
Horse as a mode of transport is obsolete, copper for Internet is not. Basic stuff; by definition.
They’ve squealed “upper edge of physics” (without any understanding) for decades. Advances ignored, self reflection impossible. Squeal it again.
SC pointed out NBNCo GPON fibre is “obsolete”;-)
FFS Richard, learn to use grammar, it’s a pretty basic skill…
His ignorance again exposed; goes grammar.
Finally on solid foundations, though unlikely to help in his juvenile quest to convince the internet my posts aren’t factual. (Rofl)
@ Richard,
Sorry about the tardiness of reply Richard.. I have better things to do at weekends than get bogged down with flat earth, egotistical, bigots who I now most aptly refer to as MTM’s – Malcolm’s Turnbull’s Morons…or Malcolm’s Total Morons, you choose…
Obsolete: cause (a product or idea) to become obsolete by replacing it with something new.
“In the last century, we have seen many technologies come and go. Before the car, came the horse and buggy; before computers, there were typewriters; and before wireless and fiber broadband networks, there was copper wire.”
“There aren’t many horse and buggies on the road and most of us don’t have typewriters sitting on our desks. So why are copper networks still so widely used although they have been rendered obsolete by next-generation technologies”?
“Traditional copper networks are no longer applicable to the needs and benefits of today’s technologies. It doesn’t make economic or practical sense to continue requiring telecommunications companies to preserve obsolete copper wire technologies when wireless and fiber networks can offer better connections more efficiently.”
Apology accepted/You’re welcome
And if he’s not defending the CFKD’s policies, he’s calling for p2p fibre. Now that’s some Serious cognitive dissonance!
“SC pointed out NBNCo GPON fibre is “obsolete”;-)”
Back to the home you fucking fruitcake!!!!!
How are those copper tinted glasses Richard?
Do they cut down the glare that radiate from that array of vacuum tubes? xD
Suppose we could always return to making dirt roads, we have lots of dirt and its cheaper and faster to make. The cars of today can travel on it faster than the cars of old. So that has to be a good thing right ???
If you put a speed limit of 10Km/hr then it doesn’t really matter if you have autobahn class roads.
The rich %1 can always afford Range Rovers to drive fast.
wow, false analogy and a straw man, I’m impressed Mat!
Public interest test for media ownership died because of false information and a sleeping public.
Mike Quigley should be recognised for his achievements and his words heard.
Another good example of Australia’s people staggering blindly towards decline.
Does this Richard character live in a cave? At least he has an appropriate name!
Richard lives under a rock and he humps dead pigs!
Does this Richard character live in a cave? At least he has an appropriate name!
Current theory suggests that he and his clan were assimilated into modern human populations, which explains why his ideas aren’t extinct.
Oh…. I might point out that I have blocked & filtered you on Twitter so I am unable to read your link
You’re a fucking retard!!
LMAO
Yet not a Murdoch to be heard from.
Enjoying the irony;-)
@ Richard,
Wow giving someone else shit when they aren’t even here, too…
Obviously I’m not the only one to have bruised that mammoth ego, with those inconvenient facts eh?
You’re welcome
Lol Mathew
Labor plan could with minor upgrades easily catch to the rest or the world or even get ahead.
Coalition plan SR doesn’t start to upgrade there MTM to FTTP until the start of 2030. So by you chart of the rest of the world at 1Gbps we will just be delivering an up to 25Mbps network
Mathew’s NBN Trolling Myths
They could flick a switch right now and deliver 1Gbps to business. (Was never announced for residential use unless you could present a case and be able to cough up about $300/month)
But there’s a problem.
The 100% FTTH network is not complete and those who require gigabit connections would not be getting what they payed for because millions of other customers are currently not connected at these speed tiers, mostly on ADSL/ADSL2+ which has a maximum upload speed of 1Mbps maximum.
In other words they would be like back in the 1800’s when you were the only person with a telephone. You would have no one to talk to.
Next time you download a large file take a look at the bitrate. You’d be lucky to get 1MB/s. Your download bitrate makes absolutely no difference.
So the LNP government and RSPs decided to make retail speed tiers at 100Mbps maximum until such time as the network is completed.
The claim that there is no one interested in gigabit connections is pure bullshit!!!
Even when the network was in design stages NBN Co knew and where perfectly aware of the scalability and extensibility of PON technologies which is the reason why it was chosen.
I should also add that Verizon provided NBN Co engineers technical advice on deploying GPON/FTTH networks as they have had years of experience.
ITU-T had already approved the next generation 10Gbps 10G-PON (XG-PON) standards in 2010.
Verizon started out with a maximum 100Mbps speed tier and gradually increased/added the tiers as their network footprint grew. Today the maximum is 500/500 Mbps.
(see link)
This image from Labor’s NBNCo Corporate Plan in 2012 shows that Labor never intended for us to catch up.
LOL, a 4 year old CP that the current government doesn’t even agree with!!
And you wonder why no one takes you seriously ;o)
>q>But it felt like taboo that someone would say these facts in public.
Indeed Renia, and after seeing how the LPA aligned have slandered him, you can add “brave” to Mike Quigley’s list of personal attributes…
Mike Quigley’s track record, particularly the high position he achieved working for Alcatel is hard to beat.
They (other board members) treated him like shit forcing him to resign claiming it was his fault that the project was behind schedule when in fact it was Telstras excessive delay in signing the $11billion deal that had practically brought the project to a halt.
I wonder who encouraged those other board members to act in this appalling manner. This is the burning question. But I have my suspicions.
Likewise with the ousting of Peter Ferris.
In my book this is called political corporate corruption to the maximum!!!
It’s a wonder that Quigley even gives a damn!
Unlike in the backwaters of Australia, Spain seems to have no problem deploying FTTH to nearly 15 million premises by end of 2014 The task shared by Spanish based TeleFonica, Orange (Formally Telecom France) and Vodaphone. Orange ambitions in Spain is to reach 14 million premises by 2020. Spain leads Europe in FTTH penetration.
European FTTH subscribers reached a total of 36 million February 2016. This fact was unveiled at the FTTH Conference 2016 in Luxembourg.
In October 2006, North American FTTH deployment passed 6 million premises. Up by 2 million since March of the same year. 300,000 premises passed every month.
By October 2013, North American FTTH deployment exceeded 10 million homes. The U.S. accounts for 90% of North American connections led by Verizon which account for 76.7% of the country’s 9.6 million FTTH connections.
I have no choice but to draw my own conclusions!
Australian Laggards!!!!!!!!
VERIZON: fibre is MUCH cheaper than copper, we’re going all-FTTP
US telco says all-fibre diet cuts maintenance costs, increases revenue-per-user
Meanwhile South Australia is shafting Malcolm and his mates plan to only have FTTP at expensive Business Parks so they can make a fortune screwing would be entrepreneurs massive amounts for rents and services just so they can access Fibre
“There is no debate, between technologists, about which technology is the best for Australia’s future telecommunications needs” – that’s when I stopped having any interest in this article. what an absolute load of garbage.
Well done, you just outed yourself as being completely brain dead!
*Golf Clap*
that’s when I stopped having any interest in this article. what an absolute load of garbage.
Thanks for your opinion, look forward to your “in depth” editorial in the Tele/Australian!
The reaction I’ve been looking for is the reporting about it on ABC. Absolutely fricken crickets!
Hopefully Labor will jam this in the mix during the weekend as I see MSM (including the ABC) are trying to prove Shorten is wrong in that Malcolm doesn’t have a policy to privatise medicare and they. want to kill the scare campaign.
Weird that all the focus is on Shorten to prove himself here, not actually test out either sides policies.
At least http://goo.gl/A7iMAk got a run on ABC’s Fact check.
I’ve got to admit that was a pleasant surprise, I was sure they’d go talk to Graham lynch type lib shill and declare Jason’s statement misleading or some other weasel appraisal.
Brexit seems to have overwhelmed everything today.
One thing about Brexit I did find is an affect that it could have on Malcolm Turnbull’s investments in Spanish-based Telefonica and Orange (formally Telecom France). LoL!
http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/06/24/why-shares-of-telefonica-sa-slumped-today.aspx
Turnbull’s beloved BT Group plummets 19% in Brexit Aftershock
http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/06/24/bt-group-plc-plummets-19-in-brexit-aftershock.aspx
> Hopefully Labor will jam this in the mix during the weekend
Doubtful as this article Do Australians even care about NBN explains:
“It seems illogical to be opposed to the “best” technology, but most Australians — the very people the NBN is being built for — simply don’t care.”
Which is very clearly highlighted by 84% connecting at 25Mbps or slower.
Leith Elliott captures the damge of speed tiers succinctly here:
“I’ve been thinking this too. In retrospect I agree the public would not have been fooled into thinking that the MTM could have provided a similar service, as it wouldn’t have been even close.”
Yes thanks Mathew, like we haven’t heard that (ad nausea, ad infinitum) before.
Do you actually play another tune or do you only know the one?
Well one, since you completely abandoned the previous only tune you had daily for the last 5 years… 50/12…
How’s that going for you, BTW?
You’re welcome
Oh, do they Mathew, that’s interesting…..*yawn*
What are they, or even you, going to do about it? Bitch about Labor on the internet? Yeah, that’ll bring change /rolleyes
“Which is very clearly highlighted by 84% connecting at 25Mbps or slower”
But since 600 million homes are to be on gigabit networks by 2020, the short term choices are irrelevant.
Chirp , chirp.. Quigley who?
Tony abbot told Malcom to destroy the nbn not change DESTORY tells you everything you need to know. They where not ever interested in helping Australia and where never going to do anything until labor did it.
Renai I think you have this in reverse?
He slandered Mike didn’t he?
Cheers, fixed.
?
How do you get the “thumb up” icon Derek?
Just by using normal emojis on my iPhone or Mac (command + control + space).
Ps I suspect delimiter is now using UTF-8 as emojis only started working in the comments recently.
If you are on Windows activate the Touch Keyboard on the taskbar. You will find them in there. ?
? ? ?
Cool, ta guys
I think this bit:
“Minister’s habit of playing the ball and not the man”
is the wrong way around – the Coalition preferentially play the man, not the ball, preferring to put down their opponents rather than demonstrate why the LNP are a better alternative.
If Labor don’t make mileage off this, their campaign strategists should be fired…
Ah yes, will fix.
Cheers. :)
@Renai, I agree wholeheartedly but how the hell do we get organisations like Telsoc, Intenet Australia, CCC and even ACS to get off the fence and shout from the roof tops so loudly that the MSM etc hear them?
To date they’ve mostly sat on the fence much to my and likely others dismay.
The way to get these kind of associations involved is to join as a member and then start emailing their executives and board members asking for action on the NBN.
Good point, how about an article highlighting the various orgs agendas to help us make an informed decision on which one would best suit us?
E.g. I’m a major incident manager so I assume Telsoc is more for engineers?
Maybe ask Daniel to do an article on where they all stand and contact info Renai? I found the recent ACS one rather interesting (they seem to have changed a bit since my uni days).
ACS? Liberal Party hen house.
Hardly any techs. Very low membership. They think they are the IT professional body but they are deluded.
Remember Edward Mandla?
Agreed, last time I looked into then they seemed more interested in facilitating 457 visas for companies than helping Australian ICT workers.
Yeah! And take a guess who grabs the loot to skills test them with the governments blessing
That is some professional representative body with a massive conflict of interest!
Yep, that’s it exactly, only severing their own interests, the industry be dammed!
On an annual basis the ACS published the ICT Trade Update.
The 2002 report found that the trade deficit spiraled up to $14.4 billion.
Richard Alston slammed the report as “alarmist”…. “little more than a superficial and simplistic stunt peddling discredited 19th century mercantilist dogma that all imports are bad and all exports are good.” blah blah blah
The 2009 report shows that the trade deficit hit $28 billion.
They also published ICT Employment Survey which for most of us painted a grim picture. Here’s one from 2011
https://www.acs.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/1421/2011ACSEmploymentSurveyReport.pdf
By 2002 I had enough and shut down my IT consulting & contracting company and fled the country with what I had left in 2005!
The problem is that technologists either haven’t spoken the truth or haven’t taken the time to become informed.
Technologists should have been outraged by the impact of speed tiers on the NBN 7 years ago, but selfishly chose to remain silent overcome by lust for a cheap FTTP connection. The result of that is MTM and 84% connected at 25Mbps or slower.
Are they Labor technologists or just technologists with no political affiliation…. I think u need to be specific because that’s could mean the number of ‘bastards’ screwing us over speed tiers could be significantly larger than previously dreamed of by you….. Possibly more than 1%!
We do NOT have political affiliations. We regard negative politics and rapid advance of technology a poisonous mix which hinders innovation, development and progress.
There is one exception. The United States
Just a few days ago President Obama payed a special visit in San Francisco East Bay Area to attend the Global Entrepreneurship Summit at Stanford University. He gave praise to tech companies, both large and small, for all the contributions to U.S. economic development.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/tech/President-Obama-Heads-to-Bay-Area-to-Participate-in-Global-Entrepreneurship-Summit-at-Stanford-University-383992791.html
My company, which I founded in 2005 as a startup, is located in this area.
Now I’m intrigued as to what that company is!
Should they? Why? And why is the NBN different to all the other “speed tier” technologies?
I look forward to you answer Mathew, honestly.
Why do you keep harping on about speed tiers when not once have I seen you address the reason that they exist. Here’s a hint a lot of it has to do with competing with existing technology and improvements in wireless technology, the NBN would be more expensive for all but the highest tier of users without them. The only thing that screwed it all up was the PoI decision and I think it was a mistake not to rethink the pricing model in response.
“The result of that is MTM and 84% connected at 25Mbps or slower”
But as the majority of the planet will be on gigabit networks very soon, this weeks choices are quite beside the point.
You can expect them to stay this way indefinitely, or until Malcolm Turnbull and the political bullshit is blown into oblivion!
The only organisations I follow are international.
Internet Society http://www.internetsociety.org/
Fiber To The Home Council. There is an APAC Chapter http://www.ftthcouncilap.org/
The FTTH Council holds regular expos and conferences around the world. I have attended a few of these, the last one was in Luxembourg. Australia never got a mention. However New Zealand’s initiatives were praised. I will be attending the next one in Marseille, France in February next year.
http://www.ftthcouncil.eu/
Indeed but it has been like that since the very beginning. The problem was those opposed to the correct FttP rollout were told it was going to be a clusterfuck and did not listen.
So now it’s 2016 and what was promised to them by the coalition clowns, what they told us the coalition clowns would do for us simply isn’t happening and the NBN is an even bigger mess than we anticipated. It’s clearly apparent that the sensible option, the LOGICAL thing to do would have been to continue the proper NBN rollout as planned.
But think about all those articles from the simpletons at Noise ltd etc, those with a political agenda, obviously they don’t want to bring attention to it now.
But….but…but….it’s faster to roll out Hubert!!!1
http://blog.jxeeno.com/widespread-delays-plague-multi-technology-rollout/
I know right. We were told we need slower speeds sooner by the copper fanboy knuckle draggers. It was of paramount importance to roll out a slow network quicker than the correct FttP network. That is why the coalition clowns promised 25mbps for all by the end of 2016 (187 days to go!). The speed is slower than 1gbps so it must be faster to rollout… or so they thought, so they fooled the copper fanboy knuckle draggers…
Then reality slaps them in the face.
Fuck all for two years. Advice to continue correct FttP roll out ignored. Look where we are now. Patchwork network clusterfuck town. A fucking disaster by every measure (just as I predicted) the correct FttP end goal disrupted for idiotic political reasons and instead of apologising to us and admitting they were wrong they make excuses and defend it instead.
Exactly.
I noticed a new report up on BuddeComm, a couple of quotes for you from the key developments section:
– FttX held only a 22% market share of global broadband access technologies in 2013, but by 2016 this had increased to around 47% at the expense of DSL which is in decline.
– By mid 2015 there were 148 countries which had a national broadband network plan or strategy in place.
– Fibre networks have become a key investment area and most international high-speed broadband network projects are now based around FttP.
– Global broadband prices are declining in many markets around the world, making it more affordable and more obtainable to the greater population.
Kinda makes you wonder what the RotW knows that Malcolm doesn’t…
From Wiki…
JAPAN: – “FTTH was introduced in 1999 and substantial growth began in 2001.
In 2003–2004, FTTH accelerated, while DSL stagnated. DSL peaked in March 2006. 10.5 million FTTH connections were reported in September 2007.
On 17 September 2008, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications reported that FTTH connections (13.08 million connections) eclipsed DSL (12.29 million connections and declining) and became the most popular method of broadband connection at 45% of the total.
And here we are with copper obsolescence in 2016 and beyond.
*shrugs*
BUT is it enough to change peoples minds, when those who control the levers of much of the media, and definitely a good portion of the business world, are against a shift to the ALP as the governing party while the LNP they prefer cannot consider the humble pie required to be eaten to admit the folly of MTM in any way shape or form.
The legacy of Abbott the destroyer is alive and well, and if the Australian people return the LNP we will have strengthened the arguments politically that the MTM solution is the one the majority of Australians want.
“Truths like: Copper cables are obsolete technology.”
Ah that alexism returns:
obsolete : technology used by millions and generates billions in income every year.
“Truths like: Australia’s broadband needs are increasing at an exponential rate.”
Cisco predicts “broadband speeds will nearly double by 2020. By 2020, global fixed broadband speeds will reach 47.7 Mbps, up from 24.7 Mbps in 2015”.
Well within today’s copper technologies capabilities.
“Truths like: Fibre is the only viable long-term fixed telecommunications technology.”
Claimed since the 80s, yet plenty of alternatives used today and upgrades actively undertaken for long term.
Activate research and improvements in alternative delivery preciously unimaginable advances (denied by a few, even when commercial products available.
“I know all of these facts very well.”
Hmm…
Yep, let’s waste billions building a national network that barely meets today’s needs….
Your shortsighted bean counter mindset continues to amaze…
I disagree with ‘barely meets today’s needs’.
I have FTTN (NBN) at home and it is meeting my needs very well. Appreciate it won’t do that in the long term, but in terms of needs right now it works well.
The word ‘barely’ is perhaps a stretch. It suits the majority of users’ current needs.
The biggest problem with that though is that the people’s needs it doesn’t meet are the ones who are willing to pay a premium for higher speeds, and make a disproportionately large slice of the network’s revenue…
Meets predicted needs as well. Options available for the few higher demand.
Customer demanded speeds are today known, data published. Your revenue claim is unsupported (vast majority of revenue from lowest two speed tiers).
Add NBNCo 1.05mbps / customer CVC any the potential for growth on even the lowest speed tiers obvious.
Nailed it. Actually conservative estimates showed that most of the revenue would have been generated by speeds 50/20mbps and higher from 2017 onwards, 100/40mbps and higher from 2020 onwards and 250/100mbps from 2025 onwards. Coalition clowns & GimpCo done fucked up big time.
We’d go on to discuss Brisy line’s analysis of the “conservative estimates” using actuals ( 8th year of the company with 1m users ). But sadly he hasn’t performed any.
Guess we’ll have to use mine (again):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/he6dtqmfci8fg1a/speed-actuals-v-forecast.pdf?dl=0
Wow, actuals showing NBNCo is significantly underperforming their “conservative estimates” (all techs). Curse numbers;-)
Yeah, the LPA really screwed the pooch on the FttN numbers, didn’t they :o)
Apart from the 100/40, the FttP numbers are actually tracking pretty well.
Thanks for the charts!
“Meets predicted needs as well”
You mean it is capable of Gigabit connections for all by 2020?
Whew…that is a relief.
@mr ~80% of paying customer agree with you across all fixed line techs. Existing scoop for them to double their AVC, orders of magnitude greater CVC.
Care to publish your sync speed and cable distance to node?
“I have FTTN (NBN) at home and it is meeting my needs very well.”
Your antedocal experience on a residential connection is not the big picture
Entrepreneurs are generally very small businesses trying to develop new businesses. It is those small businesses of 2-3 people who can end up 200-300 and all with high paying jobs which feeds other industries.
Case Studies
Independent radiographer who needs to transfer large medical images and patient records to GPs, hospitals and specialists. A CT scan of abdomen or pelvis is 500-600 images. Just one 3D breast imaging (Tomosynthesis) are 10GB files. Do you think they have time to wait for transfers?
3D Printing applications. Architecture & Medical
Robot Arm using 3D printers for construction projects
A small company called Feetz makes 3D customisable shoes. The customer uses an specialised app on a mobile phone to photograph feet which is sent for processing. The business requires high bandwidth and servers to accomplish this.
How is your teleconferencing going for you.
What about Virtual Reality which is used in education? With high speed broadband students can have immersive learning experience, visit museums and other places around the world.
Australians have a lot to learn about Internet usage.
+1
Here are some more case studies for those, who sit in wonder, what Gigabit broadband is used for. They cover applications for Education & Workforce, Energy, Transportation, Advanced Manufacturing, Public Safety, Health and various other general categories.
https://www.us-ignite.org/apps/
The continuous monotonous bleats of “there are no applications currently available for commercial gigabit connectivity” is pure bullshit!
Suck it up!!
Hey, Richard, go do some reading on statistics, so you can understand why a technology that just meets ‘average’ demand will be a pitiful failure…
Except that Labor forecast that for almost 50% will continue to choose speeds that are easily provided by FTTN.
So yes FTTN is incapable of delivering the benefits of the NBN promised by Labor, but then Labor only promised to deliver those benefits to an elite few (<1% in 2026 on 1Gbps) so why does the average person care?
And according to Cisco, up until shortly before 2020.
Great value we’ll get from that “up to” $56b!! Four fantastic years!! Classic ;-)
“Except that Labor forecast”
Strike one…Labor made no forecast.
“for almost 50% will continue to choose speeds that are easily provided by FTTN”
Do you mean your famous 50% will choose 12/1 silliness?
Strike Two…
“but then Labor only promised to deliver those benefits to an elite few”
Nope…that was a worst case scenario for a corporate plan that showed that even if everything went to Hell, it would still work fine.
Strike Three…you are OUTTA there!
Do you get paid per post Mat?
Hi Richard,
“technology unwillingly used by millions and generates billions in income every year”
“Well within today’s copper technologies capabilities.”
“plenty of alternatives unwillingly used today”
I fixed that for you :)
The reality is that there is no reason not to base Australia’s future telecommunications platform entirely on fibre. It is the only available technology that will meet all future demands, it’s within the cost envelope, and it will even fuel the rollout of faster 4G/5G etc mobile technologies.
No reason, that is, aside from political reasons ;)
Smacked down
@ Renai
Now that was a long time coming!!!!!!! – and long overdue.
Well done…….
Alfred
“The reality is that there is no reason not to base Australia’s future telecommunications platform entirely on fibre.”
Ah cost and time to deploy. Two very big reasons, and why copper based alternatives are very popular.
Argue the additional costs and time are worth it, but seems many are stuck with Quigley’s delusional claim FTTH doesn’t cost any more or take longer.
Perhaps some figures?
Where? Perhaps some graphs showing FttN roll outs worldwide Vs FttP roll outs worldwide showing how “very popular” it actually is would be in order Richard?
He should be sure to include those where the incumbent has purchased one or more copper networks too imho.
Because leveraging an existing paid off asset vs buying a second hand one outright are two very different things.
@sm not different when you acquire the assets for zero!
TM denying FTTN/B/C’s popularity? Not surprised.
Richard denying that the popularity of companies once building FTTN are now building FTTP instead.
That wasn’t a statement, it was a question (questions are denoted by this mark Richard “?”). I was asking you for your evidence.
Evidence I guess you just don’t have, which would explain why you are trying to avoid an answer to that which was asked…
Certainly seems that way Jason K
Compare the total ownership cost and you will see that FTTN is far more expensive.
As to time, currently FTTP is being rolled out at over 25,000/week…and that is without any of the new methods being used. Do the math…
Keep in mind that the speeds using skinny fibre could double that without trying hard.
RR destroyed again by truth bombs but you should have expected his irrationality when you put “Quigley” in the article title Renai.
Look sunshine, it works like this.
Today and last night have been a winter downpour with added sleet. I have fibre to the home internet. I am safe that the water will not harm my internet connection. However if I had copper, especially the copper that Ziggy Switkowski said in 2004 was ruined and at 5 minutes to midnight, then the rain could corrode and get into the copper and harm my internet speed. Indeed, in forums people say that their copper/adsl internet in rainy weather is knocked out for days.
So it’s not just about numbers – it’s about what is BETTER.
look squealer, experienced that same rain and sleet yet my 1.8km copper connection was unaffected (like millions of others). FTTN areas survived the east coast flooding. How was any of that possible? (Rofl)
You do realise Richard, that whenever you use the term squealer, you only make yourself look histrionic and desperate, don’t you? Anyone that has to resort to ad hominem attacks has lost the argument, regardless of what other data they may come up with. People stop listening at that point, whether the data is valid or not.
That’s the main reason why nobody gives you any credibility. This will continue unless you change tactics.
Naturally, the same can be said in reverse (i.e. the people who engage with you who in frustration have also used ad hominem attacks), but unless something does change, you’re at an impasse, and you have no salient point to make beyond a thinly (very thin) veiled troll.
Throw it and it may be returned. Enjoying the irony;-)
Which irony would that be?
He’s projecting. No surprise that the biggest squealer here (actually the only one) is RR. Just look at the all effort he put into responding in this article. It’s about Quigley so naturally his jealously manifests itself in squealing pig form.
http://imgur.com/5RTSEGu
Actually no they didn’t.
Right…your “copper connection”….
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/06/21/fact-check-turnbull-misleads-qa-audience-nbn/#comment-747525
Which is it? Or do you love the LPA MtM so much you decided to collect the whole set LOL
Copper Satellite…Classic ;-)
Reference to a Hytertext link TM understands as a satellite connections. Classic;-)
LOL, the way you mangle the language it’s amazing anyone actually understands you ;o)
His vague comments at the very least require a translator. I checked Google translate but sadly they don’t have a CFKD to English option.
Fiber to the home has other advantages as well
A single copper pair conductor can carry six phone calls. A single fiber pair can carry more than 2.5 million phone calls simultaneously
Resistance to electromagnetic interference. Fiber has a very low rate of bit error, as a result of fiber being so resistant to electromagnetic interference. Fiber-optic transmission are virtually noise free.
Early detection of cable damage and secure transmissions. Fiber provides an extremely secure transmission medium, as there is no way to detect the data being transmitted by “listening in” to the electromagnetic energy “leaking” through the cable, as is possible with traditional, electron-based transmissions. By constantly monitoring an optical network and by carefully measuring the time it takes light to reflect down the fiber, splices in the cable can be easily detected.
Other advantages include:
Reliability – Bandwidth – Affordability – Future Proofing – Standards – Security – Economic Development – Wireless & Mobile Backhaul & Fronthaul, Next Gen Applications such as Machine-To-Machine, Internet of Things, Cloud Computing – Public Safety – Education – Telemedicine – Innovation – Entrepreneurship
FTTH has many advantages (acknowledged by everyone), however CPP and speed of delivery are not (important for this policy folly).
BULLSHIT!
ITU-T approved 40Gbps approved the G.989 series of standards for 40 Gbps-capable passive optical networks (NG-PON2) in March this year.
At the first official launch In Tasmania in 2010, Gillard & Conroy remarked that the NBN will be able to support gigabit speeds sometime in the future.
Fact – Gigabit Passive Optical Network standard (GPON) is deployed and fundamental part of the original network design
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-08-12/big-gig-nbn-to-be-10-times-faster/941408
In April 2013 NBN Co announced that 1Gbps/gigabit speed will be available by December 2013
http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco/media-releases/2013/nbn-gigabit-nation.pdf
Where is it now birdbrain?
You must keep up numpty.
“speed of delivery” SC reads as a challenge to GPON performance; so random posts to irrelevant articles, squeals “birdbrain”, “numpty”. Classic;-)
Having a great time watching you with your dick in the mouth of the dead pig.
How is the blue rinse set knitting group going for you at the Nursing Home?
Keep humping it you fake!!!!
What if speeds triple by 2020? What about upload speeds Richard? How many people can actually get those speeds if they needed it? Your comment is invalid!
our $20+b (20% complete) NBN delivers 1.05mbps / customer sustained. Plenty of room for growth. Popular to protest uploads speeds but actuals aren’t showing the hypothesed demand. YouTube hamster stares don’t require much upload.
Like the claimed 2-3 new power stations, wrong sized copper, …
YouTube hamster stares don’t require much upload.
Bullshit
http://rentrender.com/online-render-farm-service/burp/
https://aws.amazon.com/
amongst 1000 other cloud services that require reliable, fast upload.
http://ford.com/
http://mattel.com/
http://sony.com/
Three more random links that show nothing.
AWS doesn’t “require” reliable, fast uploads from residences. A major reason data centres exist.
It doe require fast uploads if you want to create your content and services locally, and scale your IT services globally.
Prime examples, uploading video, and machine images if you want to get things done in a timely manner. I suggest you do a little more research about this before attempting to be so flippant. AWS has the capability to be the data centre for any business.
I’ve got 500+ photos I’m trying to backup from my iPhone over ADSL2 right now, it’s going to take fucking weeks!
Upload is key to backing up anything and to working productively over VPN (which right now is danged painful!).
Murdoch (taking a break patrolling injustice to squealers; or likely a different approach given the foul abuse ignored by others in this very thread) suggests I “do a little more research about this before attempting to be so flippant. ”
Flippant their shallowness deserves.
Even in its 8th year, NBNCo doesn’t have a business product; pathetic QOS (ask Brisy boy to explain;-), no business SLA (maybe Rizz), high contention (Tinman?). Yet this their proposed comms platform to realise their commercial visions.
Hey, what would I know? (Rofl)
“Flippant their shallowness deserves.”
Not in this case. Copper figher’s point is valid. You’re currently looking at high single figure uploads (at least) for any image upload. I can’t speak with much authority on video, because it’s all dependent on your mix and presentation, but anything of any substantial length the 1 Mbps just isn’t going to cut it.
You talk about growth … but that scalability problem disappears with FTTH. It’s no longer a factor.
“Even in its 8th year, NBNCo doesn’t have a business product”
Business products are not what wholesale providers are concerned with. NBNCo offers a bitstream service. All users of their connections are treated the same, within the structure that they have set up. Can you order a connection from NBN today? No. You order from an ISP. If you want a “business” connection, you are more than welcome to order from another retailer who uses different infrastructure than NBNCo’s. There isn’t any? Then you’re out of luck. But that’s no different from today, without NBNCo.
“pathetic QOS”
That’s a moving target, entirely dependent on the perception, rather than actual performance. How can I say this? Because if NBNCo haven’t delivered what they promised, you are entitled to sue their backsides in court.
“no business SL”
Doesn’t exist for consumer connections today. Other providers can be engaged for this. Nothing has changed in this regard.
“high contention”
For what connections are you talking about?
“Hey, what would I know?”
If you added context, I might be able to make a determination on that. But without context, you could be talking out your backside for all I know. As such, the credibility of your argument suffers.
Given his history safe to assume.
@m users on NBNCo’s bitstream are not treated the same; read about traffic classes. QOS doesn’t mean what you (or Hubert) thinks it does. RSP can’t engage other providers for a business SLA for NBNCo’s network, and they NBNCo doesn’t offer one. Contention (AVC / CVC) figures known for ~1m NBNCo customers, clearly consumer product.
There must be one FTTHer with at least the basics. But where?
LOL…”Look Ma, everyone else is marching out of step!!”
March on to your on tune Richard, march on! lol
@m ask TM for traffic class explanation?
Interested in learning more about his upper class-4:-)
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/06/23/need-speed-theres-still-time-fix-australias-nbn/#comment-748475
I am (and asked you about it). I admitted the document on that is as clear as mud, but you didn’t bother responding…too eager to throw mud I guess?
As usual, you’re a disappointment…
“users on NBNCo’s bitstream are not treated the same”
Sure they are. They all fall within NBNCo’s structure, which includes traffic classes.
“QOS doesn’t mean what you (or Hubert) thinks it does”
It means exactly what I think it does. Perhaps you need to either comprehend what I’m saying, or if you’re unsure, ask me to clarify.
“RSP can’t engage other providers for a business SLA for NBNCo’s network”
You’re right. But that’s not what I was suggesting. You can get a business connection … just not on NBNCo’s network. If there’s no other competing network in that footprint, you’re out of luck though. But that’s no different than today. That’s what I was saying.
“Contention (AVC / CVC) figures known for ~1m NBNCo customers, clearly consumer product.”
Can I please get your definition of what you consider “consumer” vs “business”?
“ask TM for traffic class explanation?”
Don’t need it. I got educated about TC’s 1-4 quite some time ago. Being an engineer myself, I found it interesting.
By the way, you ridiculing Tinman for referring to TC-4 as “upper class” when you have neither questioned him for what he meant, or his request that you “educate” him on it (a request for context by him) …. pretty disingenuous Richard.
It means exactly what I think it means too Murdoch. Funny story I never brought up the topic of QoS. RR did but as always he has a habit of misrepresenting what others say and taking what is said out of context when the debate doesn’t go his way. Still thinks 12/1mbps is high speed “bubububu QoS” he squeals.
That or as you allude to a failure on his part to comprehend even the basics.
For everyone else just read the article comments here just to confirm how bad his habit is: https://delimiter.com.au/2015/12/16/fttn-rollout-hits-50000-homes-in-record-time/ (My comment at 19/12/2015 at 9:45 pm)
RR credibility -1 :-(
He’s ridiculing me because the “Product Description
NBN Co Ethernet Bitstream Service” description lists CVC TC-4 as having ” bandwidth profiles” from 0 – 10,000 and seems to think everyone should just know why (or doesn’t actually know why himself).
the document I refer to is:
http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco2/documents/sfaa-wba2-product-catalogue-nebs-product-description_20141219.pdf
Pretty shitty product description IMHO.
It’s his “modus operandi” unfortunately Hubert, it’s how he appears “knowledgeable” on the intertubes, even though he doesn’t have a clue himself…being people counter “developer”…SQUeeeeeeel!!
Beat you to it Ricky! Classic ;-)
100Gbps 100G-PON Passive Optical Network Standard will be ITU-T approved well before 2020. Huawei claimed the break-though two years ago.
http://telecoms.com/298151/huawei-claims-breakthrough-in-100gbps-pon-technology/
Bitrates over fiber will continue to be smashed!
Fibre has many advantages; bandwidth is massive.
Renai, SC’s outing NBNCo’s fibre network as “obsolete”;-)
“Renai, SC’s outing NBNCo’s fibre network as “obsolete”;-)”
Renai is 100% correct!
FTTN & HFC are like Vacuum Tubes (electronics)
FTTN was made obsolete when FTTP topography was first deployed in Hunter’s Creek, Florida in 1986!
NBN’s GPON is like Vacuum Tubes (electronics)
FTTN was made obsolete decades before it was even invented!
You might want to read this breaking news about the poor performance by owners of established cable networks in the U.S. that you adore so much
How Comcast and Charter are trying to fix their awful customer service
http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/06/how-comcast-and-charter-are-trying-to-fix-their-awful-customer-service/
“NBN’s GPON is like Vacuum Tubes (electronics)”
Show me the reference to this assertion!
If you had read and comprehended the technical details provided in the 100G-PON breakthrough article you will find that the NBN FTTH network is not stuck exclusively with GPON!
“FTTN & HFC are like Vacuum Tubes (electronics)”
Show me the reference to this assertion!
If you had read and comprehended the technical details of any number of copper breakthroughs (g.fast, newer VDSL2 profiles, DOCSIS3.1+) articles you will find that the NBN FTTN / HFC networks are not stuck exclusively with VDSL2 30a / DOCSIS3.0!
“If you had read and comprehended the technical details of any number of copper breakthroughs (g.fast, newer VDSL2 profiles, DOCSIS3.1+) articles you will find that the NBN FTTN / HFC networks are not stuck exclusively with VDSL2 30a / DOCSIS3.0!”
They are regarded as INTERIM technologies implemented on EXISTING networks which Australia does not have because it missed the boat last century! They are also incompatible and expensive to implement and maintain because multiple network technologies are involved. You will soon find this out the hard way.
They are also now regarded as redundant technologies in United States as it is flat out removing all signs of the outdated telephone network and moving towards 100% IP. (See FCC’s IP Transition)
Try your low-level thinking out on AT&T, Verizon, CenturyLink and Comcast, Orange (formally Telecom France) & Spanish based Telefonica. They will laugh at you and tell you to piss off!
INTERIM – I already know you don’t know the meaning of the word!
Your brain is so tiny that you fail to understand FUTURE PROOFING & UBIQUITOUS computing & networks.
In October 2015 EPB Chattanooga upgraded their city-wide 1Gbps enabled GPON/FTTH network which went live in 2010, to Alcatel-Lucent’s TWDM-PON technology to make 10Gbps available.
Now the burning question is …. WHY do you think they did this upgrade?
I’ll get back once I have finished my current R&D project on my brand new Microsoft Hololens Development Kit.
FTTN/B/C & DOCSIS upgardes required as solid investments by many (millions of customers using the tech); offering customer demanded speeds to save significant money and speed delivery with infrastructure reuse.
All techs mention 100% IP.
I’m sure they’ll be at least eloquent. AT&T operates the worlds largest network using these copper techs.
My tiny brain knows fibre’s light to bits isn’t layer-2.
Many reason areas use FTTH; obvious choice for greenfields / rebuilding after natural disasters / removal of exchanges / high revenue demographics / business parks / etc. sometimes it’s just a trial.
Hololens experiences likely more enlightening.
“FTTN/B/C & DOCSIS upgardes required as solid investments by many (millions of customers using the tech); offering customer demanded speeds to save significant money and speed delivery with infrastructure reuse.
INVALID
Even cable company Comcast are rolling out FTTH (2Gbps) to increase footprint while upgrading existing cable to meet customer demand and legal definition of Broadband (Minimum 25.5)!!
All techs mention 100% IP.
INVALID
100% IP is in the Connect America National Broadband Plan announced by the FCC and U.S. Congress in 2010.
I’m sure they’ll be at least eloquent. AT&T operates the worlds largest network using these copper techs.
INVALID
AT&T are currently deploying 1Gbps FTTH to a target 100 cities. They also petitioned the FCC in 2012 to put legislation in place to remove copper network as it is cumbersome and expensive to maintain!!!
My tiny brain knows fibre’s light to bits isn’t layer-2.
INVALID
Encryption/Decryption is carried out on Layer 2 you moron
YOU MUST KEEP UP BACKWATER BOY.
Richard
You are a master at wallowing in your political excrement.
You carry on like some zombie with your bandied about technical terms in your fearful conservative fantasy world. Your comments are loaded with misleading and false statements and a huge variety of misquotes and three word quotes taken out of a entire paragraph from articles and comments from others to suit your nutjob tendencies.
It is very apparent the you have never read the GPON standard ever since the ITU-T published them. Not even it’s fundamentals
You even wanted to argue that GPON is Layer 1 – Physical, when it is in reality specified as Layer 2 – Data Layer specification which carries the frames. It is this Layer 2 Ethernet service that NBNCo provides to the network boundaries. LoL
Try and argue this one out with ITU-T. Its their standards approval. Go on. I bet you don’t have the guts you coward.
You even had the gall to ask me to apologise to you. FFS! I wouldn’t stop down to your primal slime level you arrogant useless piece of shit! You are a fake.
You are a hero in your own mind. I think you should seek professional help! ;-)
Apologize and move on.
Try the blue rinse set crotchet forums.
Much like “copper satellites” ;-)
Leading cheer-squealers (SC / Alex (Rizz) / TM / etc) remain unaware that previous discussions are still there and can be linked to (sorry TM, not satellite linked;-) :
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/06/13/fifield-attacks-labor-nbn-deceit-record-short-press-conference/#comment-745143
I agreed GPON covered layers-1&2, but that wasn’t SC’s claim. “light to bits” isn’t layer-2, period.
Reflect. Apologise. Move on.
Richard
Did they let you out of the nursing home today?
You senile old prick!!
Yet another eloquent contribution.
@ Richard,
Sorry I’ve damaged you to such a degree that you are compelled to mention me at every one of your “jealous rages”, even when I’m not here/commenting, Richard…
It must be another flat earther flaw (amongst many), as the other trusty follower here even refers to other posters as me, for the same reason…
Obviously you cultists who live in that bubble have pretty thin skin and hold a grudge, when people such as me use your own stupid comments to embarrass you…
You’re welcome.
@SnowCrash
I thought you were arguing that residential users didn’t need 1Gbps connections in response to my comments that Labor were targeting less than 1% on 1Gbps in 2026.
Does it matter how fast a car can go if are driving it on a road with a 25Km/hr speed limit?
Your comment is invalid.
Nailed it.
Yes Richard
Cisco predicts “broadband speeds will nearly double by 2020. By 2020, global fixed broadband speeds will reach 47.7 Mbps, up from 24.7 Mbps in 2015”.
But Turnbull only aiming for 25Mbps half of what the rest of the world will be by the time it’s finish
HFC (4m premises passed) will comfortably deliver 47.7mbps.
FTTB (1m) no issues (100/40).
FTTN (3.5m) 60% copper length <=400m (100/40), 90% <= 750m (50/10), max length ~1.1km (25/5).
Pair bonding, newer profiles options for 10% possible (if desired; outside current policy).
The glaring omissions will be Satellite (0.4m) and LTE (0.6m). Curse you Turnbull;-)
Is Turnbull SOE delivering more than 25Mbps.
But it’s funny how you place lab grade expectation on the FTTN. NBN doesn’t test the copper speed unless you pay $250 for a professional install or complain about the poor speed.
Sure, not like there’s any realworld data today known;-) funny how easy numbers destroy the fanboy positions.
It’s given most here will need a professional install. When one knows so little, best to leave it to others.
Lol Richard
Like you using ofcom report claiming FTTN gets within 10% of the advertised speed when it only tested 20 users
Link to the post jk. Evidence is typically unkind to the squealer’s imagined positron
Ofcom typically measure Internet throughput, not NBNCo capacity. Talked about for several years, one day they might actually learn about it.
Richard, pair bonding is pointless when the nodes are under provisioned with 1/1 gbps backhaul to the FAN!
Not like fibre is already provisioned for 20ge;-)
I thought we’d (cough) identified node components and installed fibre.
Richard, the FAN AAS switches themselves are only served by 2x 10GE backhaul to the POI to upgrading the Node backhaul so 10GE or 20GE is not a simple exercise. The AAS Switches themselves may even require replacement depending on their internal capacity. (see the NBN design rules doc)
So that leaves us with the following minimum required upgrades to support the nodes @ 10GE or better:
2x 10GE SFP’s per Node (the cheap part)
4x 100GE SFP modules per AAS (the expensive part upgrading to 40GE would be inadequate)
And depending on how cheap NBN co were, they’d need new very expensive AAS switches per FAN that support 100GE (eg the Cisco Catalyst 6880 series which are about $50k each) and have sufficient internal bandwidth to support the aggregation traffic.
Richard, ignore the Catalyst 6880 reference, Im not sure that’s a good example of an aggregation switch in the context of a FAN.
EDIT: it’d probably be something more like the Juniper Networks QFX5100 range of Fibre aggregation switch but with 100GE support.
Right. Contention exists throughout the network.
People like Gregory squeal 10-GPON (SC 100-GPON) when transit and RSP backhaul can’t handle anywhere near that volume of data (imagine the CVC charges).
As I posted when discussing 7330 components; 1ge installed SPF (if confirmed) would surprise me given the cost differential, however 1ge capacity is actually much larger than today’s requirements and upgrade fibre is already laid to 1) expand to max 20ge and 2) upgrade to GPON.
The cost to upgrade capacity across the network to handle node’s max 20ge capacity would be (as you point out) very expensive. It won’t happen in the nodes lifetime; available revenue can’t even pay for what’s deployed today ($20+b “invested” so far for expected FY16 revenue of $~300m & -$~2b loss).
Investing even more into ubiquitous fibre (CPP 2-3x) will exacerbate the waste (already tens of billions).
Richard, sure contention exists in all networks, the issue here is that the L2 backhaul contention in FTTN is literally 15x greater than that of the GPON network!!
When it’s that bad on FTTN the RSP CVC issue is secondary!
FWIW I dont agree with the AVC/CVC model either.
15x a non-issue is the same non-issue.
RSP’s have provisioned (actuals, known) an avg TC-4 of 1.05mbps / customer (sample ~1m). No amount of additional NBNCo capacity (last mile or transit; expensive) will alter this bottleneck.
Actuals show customer speed preference (80+% and growing) <=25mbps with high contention. Dollars talk, they demonstrate they're not prepared to pay more (sure they say they want more, but for free;-).
That crash you may hear is fantasy hitting reality. If not wait a while.
You are setting up strawmen again Richard, debating you is pointless, you just turn Delimiter into a fire hazard!
Where’s their safe space;-)
Actually, the glaring omission was where you had to give both a formula and a proviso for FttN. Classic ;-)
As are horses, millions still ride them and billions are made and lost on them daily (they don’t use them to get to work…or shopping…or…). Should we bring back the horse into widespread usage Richard? Is your case “stick with the obsolete”?
What do they predict after 2020 Richard? Does it mention that in 4 years time people on the end of a loop from a FttN node will be left at the back of the class/pack as they’re bandwidth needs increase, or will something magical happen where they just wont need bandwidth any more?
Yes, advances that are now at the upper edge of physics that require people to get closer and closer to the node (fibre) to work, they’ve done very well pushing the envelope up till now. What new technology is on the horizon that will make fibre obsolete Richard?
Indeed.
Classic :-)
Horse as a mode of transport is obsolete, copper for Internet is not. Basic stuff; by definition.
They’ve squealed “upper edge of physics” (without any understanding) for decades. Advances ignored, self reflection impossible. Squeal it again.
SC pointed out NBNCo GPON fibre is “obsolete”;-)
FFS Richard, learn to use grammar, it’s a pretty basic skill…
His ignorance again exposed; goes grammar.
Finally on solid foundations, though unlikely to help in his juvenile quest to convince the internet my posts aren’t factual. (Rofl)
@ Richard,
Sorry about the tardiness of reply Richard.. I have better things to do at weekends than get bogged down with flat earth, egotistical, bigots who I now most aptly refer to as MTM’s – Malcolm’s Turnbull’s Morons…or Malcolm’s Total Morons, you choose…
Obsolete: cause (a product or idea) to become obsolete by replacing it with something new.
And again from your cult leader, via Fox…lol
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/11/copper-wire-technology-whose-time-has-passed.html
I particularly like these paragraphs…
“In the last century, we have seen many technologies come and go. Before the car, came the horse and buggy; before computers, there were typewriters; and before wireless and fiber broadband networks, there was copper wire.”
“There aren’t many horse and buggies on the road and most of us don’t have typewriters sitting on our desks. So why are copper networks still so widely used although they have been rendered obsolete by next-generation technologies”?
“Traditional copper networks are no longer applicable to the needs and benefits of today’s technologies. It doesn’t make economic or practical sense to continue requiring telecommunications companies to preserve obsolete copper wire technologies when wireless and fiber networks can offer better connections more efficiently.”
Apology accepted/You’re welcome
And if he’s not defending the CFKD’s policies, he’s calling for p2p fibre. Now that’s some Serious cognitive dissonance!
“SC pointed out NBNCo GPON fibre is “obsolete”;-)”
Back to the home you fucking fruitcake!!!!!
How are those copper tinted glasses Richard?
Do they cut down the glare that radiate from that array of vacuum tubes? xD
Suppose we could always return to making dirt roads, we have lots of dirt and its cheaper and faster to make. The cars of today can travel on it faster than the cars of old. So that has to be a good thing right ???
If you put a speed limit of 10Km/hr then it doesn’t really matter if you have autobahn class roads.
The rich %1 can always afford Range Rovers to drive fast.
wow, false analogy and a straw man, I’m impressed Mat!
Public interest test for media ownership died because of false information and a sleeping public.
Mike Quigley should be recognised for his achievements and his words heard.
Another good example of Australia’s people staggering blindly towards decline.
Does this Richard character live in a cave? At least he has an appropriate name!
Richard lives under a rock and he humps dead pigs!
Current theory suggests that he and his clan were assimilated into modern human populations, which explains why his ideas aren’t extinct.
http://www.livescience.com/47460-neanderthal-extinction-revealed.html
Low-Effort Thought Promotes Political Conservatism
http://2012election.procon.org/sourcefiles/low-effort-thought-promotes-political-conservatism-2012.pdf
Intelligence Study Links Low I.Q. To Prejudice, Racism, Conservatism
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/intelligence-study-links-prejudice_n_1237796.html?section=australia
Australia is at least 15 years behind and falling
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/06/21/fact-check-turnbull-misleads-qa-audience-nbn/#comment-748006
This image from Labor’s NBNCo Corporate Plan in 2012 shows that Labor never intended for us to catch up.
https://twitter.com/NBNBenefits/status/746339874450530304
You’re still humping that dead pig Mathew?
Let me know when you can find a valid reference!!
Oh…. I might point out that I have blocked & filtered you on Twitter so I am unable to read your link
You’re a fucking retard!!
LMAO
Yet not a Murdoch to be heard from.
Enjoying the irony;-)
@ Richard,
Wow giving someone else shit when they aren’t even here, too…
Obviously I’m not the only one to have bruised that mammoth ego, with those inconvenient facts eh?
You’re welcome
Lol Mathew
Labor plan could with minor upgrades easily catch to the rest or the world or even get ahead.
Coalition plan SR doesn’t start to upgrade there MTM to FTTP until the start of 2030. So by you chart of the rest of the world at 1Gbps we will just be delivering an up to 25Mbps network
Mathew’s NBN Trolling Myths
They could flick a switch right now and deliver 1Gbps to business. (Was never announced for residential use unless you could present a case and be able to cough up about $300/month)
But there’s a problem.
The 100% FTTH network is not complete and those who require gigabit connections would not be getting what they payed for because millions of other customers are currently not connected at these speed tiers, mostly on ADSL/ADSL2+ which has a maximum upload speed of 1Mbps maximum.
In other words they would be like back in the 1800’s when you were the only person with a telephone. You would have no one to talk to.
Next time you download a large file take a look at the bitrate. You’d be lucky to get 1MB/s. Your download bitrate makes absolutely no difference.
So the LNP government and RSPs decided to make retail speed tiers at 100Mbps maximum until such time as the network is completed.
The claim that there is no one interested in gigabit connections is pure bullshit!!!
Even when the network was in design stages NBN Co knew and where perfectly aware of the scalability and extensibility of PON technologies which is the reason why it was chosen.
I should also add that Verizon provided NBN Co engineers technical advice on deploying GPON/FTTH networks as they have had years of experience.
ITU-T had already approved the next generation 10Gbps 10G-PON (XG-PON) standards in 2010.
Verizon started out with a maximum 100Mbps speed tier and gradually increased/added the tiers as their network footprint grew. Today the maximum is 500/500 Mbps.
(see link)
LOL, a 4 year old CP that the current government doesn’t even agree with!!
And you wonder why no one takes you seriously ;o)
>q>But it felt like taboo that someone would say these facts in public.
Indeed Renia, and after seeing how the LPA aligned have slandered him, you can add “brave” to Mike Quigley’s list of personal attributes…
Mike Quigley’s track record, particularly the high position he achieved working for Alcatel is hard to beat.
They (other board members) treated him like shit forcing him to resign claiming it was his fault that the project was behind schedule when in fact it was Telstras excessive delay in signing the $11billion deal that had practically brought the project to a halt.
I wonder who encouraged those other board members to act in this appalling manner. This is the burning question. But I have my suspicions.
Likewise with the ousting of Peter Ferris.
In my book this is called political corporate corruption to the maximum!!!
It’s a wonder that Quigley even gives a damn!
Unlike in the backwaters of Australia, Spain seems to have no problem deploying FTTH to nearly 15 million premises by end of 2014 The task shared by Spanish based TeleFonica, Orange (Formally Telecom France) and Vodaphone. Orange ambitions in Spain is to reach 14 million premises by 2020. Spain leads Europe in FTTH penetration.
European FTTH subscribers reached a total of 36 million February 2016. This fact was unveiled at the FTTH Conference 2016 in Luxembourg.
http://www.ftthcouncil.org/
In October 2006, North American FTTH deployment passed 6 million premises. Up by 2 million since March of the same year. 300,000 premises passed every month.
By October 2013, North American FTTH deployment exceeded 10 million homes. The U.S. accounts for 90% of North American connections led by Verizon which account for 76.7% of the country’s 9.6 million FTTH connections.
I have no choice but to draw my own conclusions!
Australian Laggards!!!!!!!!
VERIZON: fibre is MUCH cheaper than copper, we’re going all-FTTP
US telco says all-fibre diet cuts maintenance costs, increases revenue-per-user
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/20/verizon_fibre_is_so_much_cheaper_than_copper_were_going_allfttp/
Meanwhile South Australia is shafting Malcolm and his mates plan to only have FTTP at expensive Business Parks so they can make a fortune screwing would be entrepreneurs massive amounts for rents and services just so they can access Fibre
http://www.afr.com/business/telecommunications/ten-times-faster-than-nbn-as-adelaide-follows-chattanooga-20160627-gpspgl
the Google thing works:
https://goo.gl/VrTqEl
Cheers Abel!
“There is no debate, between technologists, about which technology is the best for Australia’s future telecommunications needs” – that’s when I stopped having any interest in this article. what an absolute load of garbage.
Well done, you just outed yourself as being completely brain dead!
*Golf Clap*
Thanks for your opinion, look forward to your “in depth” editorial in the Tele/Australian!
Comments are closed.