news The Coalition has confirmed that a statement issued late last week does not constitute its final National Broadband Network policy for the Federal Election, hosing down speculation that it was the last it would have to say on the matter ahead of the Election in July.
At around midday on Friday morning, Communications Minister Mitch Fifield and Regional Communications Minister Fiona Nash issued a brief statement entitled “A stronger plan for broadband and communications under the Coalition”.
The statement contained a number of standard Coalition rhetoric regarding the NBN project, including the claim that the NBN would have taken six to eight years longer to roll out across Australia under Labor, as well as stating that under the Coalition, the rollout of the NBN is “on budget and on track” to meet its corporate plan target of 2.632 premises ready for service this financial year.
The statement immediately created speculation online that it represented the Coalition’s official policy for the Federal Election, because there appeared to be no direct impetus for the statement to have been released.
The Coalition has made further commitments during the election campaign to funding mobile towers to fix blackspot areas.
However, it has not made any further commitments or refinements to the NBN, and has strongly hinted that it will not support a modification of the Fibre to the Node component of the NBN model to a Fibre to the Distribution Point model. This is the model that many commentators expect Labor to shift to in the election period.
So LNP have released their one-page @NBN_Australia policy on Friday afternoon with no @TurnbullMalcolm in sight
I wonder why?#notagile
— Simon Banks (@SimonBanksHB) June 3, 2016
“So LNP have released their one-page NBN policy on Friday afternoon with no Malcolm Turnbull in sight. I wonder why?” wrote Simon Banks, managing director of government relations agency Hawker Britton. Banks is a former chief of staff or deputy chief of staff to three Federal Labor leaders, including then-Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, and is broadly Labor-aligned.
“Pay more, wait longer is exactly what we’ve got with Malcolm Turnbull’s NBN,” he added.
A spokesperson for Minister Fifield did not return calls on the issue. However, a spokesperson for Minister Nash confirmed the statement was not aimed at detailing the Coalition’s final NBN policy statement for the election.
In their statement, the two ministers further highlighted what they saw as strengths of the Coalition’s approach to telecommunications policy.
They stated that under Labor, the NBN’s Interim Satellite Service was “poorly managed, slow and congested”, but that the Coalition had succeeded in launching the NBN’s replacement Sky Muster satellite service (this service was initially planned for under Labor).
“When it comes to Australian Government support to remove mobile phone blackspots in the bush the scorecard reads: Coalition $220 million funding and at least 3,000 black spots; Labor $0 and zero black spots in its six years of government,” the two ministers wrote.
“Labor’s already tried and failed to deliver the NBN. They can’t be trusted to bring broadband to Australians.”
opinion/analysis
I’m glad that this wasn’t, as some had speculated, the Coalition’s final word on formal NBN policy for this election period, because it leaves open the possibility that Turnbull’s team may commit to some kind of expansion of its currently rather limited NBN policy ahead of the Federal Election.
However, I think it’s safe to say that I don’t currently have much optimism about what the Coalition may announce. The previous decade of Coalition telecommunications policy announcements have broadly been terrible for Australia, culminating in the train wreck that is the MTM NBN policy.
It’s also a little cheeky for Fifield and Nash to claim credit for progress made on the NBN under the past few years of Coalition rule. Of course, almost all of the NBN progress made during that time can be attributed to structures and plans set up under Labor.
I do have to give the Coalition credit for its funding of towers to fix the mobile blackspot issue, however — it’s true that Labor has not committed funds to that area, and it’s one of the main telecommunications issues facing rural Australia, as well as some metropolitan areas.
Image credit: Office of Minister Fifield
Renai if you build out the NBN to regional areas (with fibre backhaul), isn’t it easy to fix the mobile blackspot issue?
Good to see Coalition taking credit for Sky Muster again (the satellite they didn’t want or need).
http://www.afr.com/technology/the-rolls-royce-nbn-satellite-malcolm-turnbull-didnt-want-is-ready-for-launch-20150923-gjtm6f
“isn’t it easy to fix the mobile blackspot issue?”
That is a factor, yes.
So rather throw the money at the NBN to roll out more fibre instead of gifting it to carriers like Vodaphone, Telstra and Optus..
Supporting their Big brothers in Multi-National Corporations is what the Coal-ition do best.
Since the NBN arrived in this area 6 years ago we have seen a significant increase in the number of mobile towers. The Labor did nothing about mobile argument is disingenuous in the extreme, imo.
Thanks Renai, that gave me a good chuckle :o)
I’m guessing there should be a “million” after the 2.632? Though I guess the 0.632 could be one of those beachside houses in Sydney?!
‘They stated that under Labor, the NBN’s Interim Satellite Service was “poorly managed, slow and congested”, but that the Coalition had succeeded in launching the NBN’s replacement Sky Muster satellite service (this service was initially planned for under Labor).’ — to me, this sums up the Liberals completely. They claim credit where it isnt due, when results are on the back of Labor policies, not theirs.
Their MTM was stated as to provide 25 Mbps to the whole of Australia by 2016, but unless some miracle happens in the next 6 months theres about as much chance of that happening as a pushbike winning the Bathurst 12 hour. So what do they do? Focus on ‘improving’ satellite services through a launch that was part of the pre-Liberal NBN planning.
Just bite the bullet already and one of you parties announce FTTdp. The first one to announce it has the high ground on the subject, and it still amazes me that neither party wants to directly endorse it, but merely hint and imply.
The key issue with it, is that it has only ever had a single customer running in field-trial. You cant realistically go ahead with a technology choice like that nation-wide, when there are no reliable use-case results for the platform (nevermind that it has not been implemented anywhere else in the world..).
Maybe not here, but BT did testing in the UK a couple of years ago, and got some pretty clear results. Results that support FTTdp being capable of a total speed around 700 Mbps between up and down. So 500/200 as a base, and when we get to the point thats an expected speed, its a short 10m upgrade to FttP.
On the basis of that alone its a clearly better option than FttN, and why so many pro-FttP would be happy to see a MTM based around FTTdp. It delivers long term solutions that FttN cant, and for minimal additional cost.
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2014/09/first-bt-trial-future-g-fast-copper-broadband-hits-nearly-720mbps.html
No doubt, however my point was more that the particular product has not, to my knowledge, been deployed or tested anywhere else. The technology in a more broader sense may have, but that is not the issue.
Someone has to go first there have been enough trials.
If it does not work perfectly then just upgrade them to FttP as the cost will not be that much more in the initial trial areas.
If thats the reason, then just come out and say it. At least they will have justification for not pursuing it. We may still think they are wrong, but at the moment they are simply ignoring the option and not addressing it.
And its a perfectly viable option for a range of reasons. So address it and move on, or the talk will still be considering it.
Totally fair comment, but the flipside is that it’s disingenuous to blame the coalition for everything people consider wrong with NBNco (eg. 114 POI’s causing narrowing of the ISP market, poor content inclusion and high CVC charges). A lot of that groundwork was laid under the ALP, and regardless of good intentions, the whole partisanship schtick with pollies trying to run an innately technological process has been a complete train wreck since it’s inception back in the 2000’s.
I don’t think folk here have ever said any of those are shining points of Labor’s plan!
Its more most here wished the LPA had simply fixed all that broken crap instead of creating and buying more old broken crap (and doing a ‘polishing’ job via PR on the lot in the process).
Bingo.
The Coalition had the opportunity to come in and fix it, but instead they chose to use an old technology, buy old end of life infrastructure we didn’t own, spend almost as long arguing with telstra as the previous mob, and ignore advances in the FTTP space that could have reduced costs significantly.
Oh and defy the standardisation logic that most entities in the world agree generally improves efficiency and reduces costs.
Pretty sure most here will agree with you about the POI and CVC issues, and while they were brought in by the ALP, the LPA has done nothing about them either, so they’re as bad as each other on those scores.
POI numbers and locations is regulated by the ACCC, but you know that.
Wow you recognize that “now”…
Yes, the ACCC did state that, doesn’t mean the Government can’t legislate around it.
You think he’d know how things work here in Australia and realise that “independent” bodies aren’t as independent as they appear…
tin(man)foil might be on special this week and don’t use the thin cheap stuff, have you checked?
Like the gauge of the copper used in Australia, but not the UK? Yes, and thanks for bringing that up! ;o)
Yep, Agreed.
POI was stupid. CVC was shortsighted, but I always assumed that would change as the numbers increased with usage etc.
As Reality noted the POI’s are and ACCC issue.
The other issue regarding the high CVC charges was admittedly seen by many as a problem, however NBN had the possibility of adjusting these numbers as their connection base broadened.
This is the basis of my biggest beef with the ALP and their delivery of the NBN. They were covering their arses, taking it slow and being overly concerned with the cost of the delivery. If they simply preferenced an urban center outward project model and been willing to spend more to ramp up the delivery, we would not be in the mess we are now in.
Of course hindsight is 20/20 and if the Libs hadn’t been hell bent on being arsonists, demolishing the NBN and then playing Frankenstein with the remaining corpse of the project the above criticisms would likely not be relevant.
Missed this yesterday. I didnt blame the Liberals for everything people consider wrong, I blame them for taking credit they dont deserve, and using that in their highlights package.
In the grander scheme, as bad as things might have been under Labor, they are worse now. And there can only be one direction to point the finger with that, and thats at the Liberals. They got voted in on the back of promises that in hindsight (and foresight for many) were never going to be met.
As for POI’s etc, the others (including alain!!!) have said it well enough. It was ACCC that made it 121 POI’s, not Labor. Off the top of my head Labor wanted 27(?) or so.
Pretty much all the long time FTTP supporters around here agree on the failure of ACCC with POI, and the issues with the high CVC.
We all certainly agree with the Partisan issues.
What we generally blame them for, is changing the underlying structure so much that the CVC design makes even LESS sense.
Personally I blame the Coalition completely for the decision to change the NBN from an organisation that is attempting to build the best infrastructure for the nation, to an NBN that is providing the lowest cost to rollout option.
> Pretty much all the long time FTTP supporters around here agree on the failure of ACCC with POI, and the issues with the high CVC.
Higher CVC means:
– lower AVC pricing, resulting in more people connecting and people choosing faster speeds
– better growth opportunities for NBNCo because data usage grows organically whereas AVC changes requires customers to overcome inertia
– faster, better maintained network since NBNCo is incentivised for running an uncongested network through more CVC revenue
HIgher AVC pricing means:
– less people connecting
– more challenging growth because of inertia
– less incentive for NBNCo to maintain the network as revenue comes from the connection not the data transferred
Nice one Captain Obvious!!
How about going out on a limb and making suggestions for some party to fix it rather than always going for the cheap shot?
Its making me sick to see all manner of commentators outside of Delimiter saying “but how much more will Labors new NBN plan cost, can we afford more Billions on this ?”
meanwhile, they don’t question Fifield and co quoting numbers of installs this year vs numbers of installs in 2013 – like there is no such thing as a ramp up and organisations don’t gradually get more and more efficient naturally as a project expands.
the 2016 25mbps promise is ignored with this weird assumption that if Turnbulls modest rubbish couldn’t be achieved, imagine what Labors NBN would be costing and how far it would be behind by now, basically they are still trying to believe there is some abstract level of accuracy to 2013 Malcolm’s assessment of the playing field. Bonkers!
If you click on the “About Us” on the site those “commenters” are expressing that opinion, does it say “News Corp Limited”?
some yes but the media is saturated with this, even more centrist people,ex Labor etc are saying this ‘sounds good but’ and then implying that Fibre is long term expensive.
I don’t have broadcast TV so I use ABC iview lots and also get sky news free via the app on my telly – they have 85% unapologetically right wing commentators and the few of lefty persuasion dial it down to avoid being constantly shat on as they appear as like the 3rd or 4th panellist with the rest being people like Rowan Dean,Andrew Bolt,Chris Kenny,Paul Murray,Peter Reith or Alan Jones!
there just isn’t strong counter from fairfax or the guardian for example, the MTM should have been torn to shreds by now – Malcolm himself gave really concrete deadlines for rollout completion (FTTN) and minimum speeds. Labor didn’t go there and chant it as a mantra yet NBNCo missed targets were covered extensively in the media
Sky doesn’t have a very big viewership, it mostly the Murdoch aligned newspapers (and Fairfaxs AFR, as it’s run by an ex-Murdoch editor, Michael Stutchbury) that set the agenda.
Unfortunately, a lot of people just don’t bother looking beyond those sources until they start to get a feeling that they are actually reading opinion, not fact.
Safe to assume some are paid shills and the really retarded ones just do it for free.
I’d like to suggest a free kick in the nuts with every new FTTN service connected. It may as well be literal given how much we’re paying for the metaphorical version.
It’s not just suggested, it’s being implemented as part of the MTM rollout. Not just in connection, but in daily use a copper boot up the arse is included. For females, I’m not sure, in these gender fluid times, I shall refrain from colourful commentary.
A K.F.C.?
Liberal policy. Sell the copper trash waste then buy it back at the tax payers expense. Fully unmaintained and in a worse state than it was sold. Just to avoid fibre internet for business and the economy to defend Murdoch.
Only to sell it off again within a matter of years – possibly and likely even within just two terms…
you forgot about the bit about selling it for a loss (after its ruined a budget or two)!
Doesn’t matter how many budgets are ruined, its all Labors fault somehow.
hehe yep. The thing is they are just so blatant about it now days and they never seem to get pulled up on it.
The only time it’s different is if Labor did something right, then the LPA will claim credit themselves (e.g. Sky Muster).
he he yep, so Labor will disown the Coalition FTTB model.
he he nope.
Their hands will be tied in many areas. We’ve discussed this. You have a woeful memory eh?
Off topic much? ;o)
One way street at work again eh Tinman, Liberals cannot claim credit for Sky Muster, but it’s ok for Labor to go ahead with the current FTTB model and claim credit for it?
“One way street at work again eh Tinman, Liberals cannot claim credit for Sky Muster, but it’s ok for Labor to go ahead with the current FTTB model and claim credit for it?”
If the Coalition claim Skymuster, then yes, Labor can claim FTTB as their own.
However, it would be hypocritical to do so. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?
How exactly can the LPA claim credit for the satellites? The contracts for build and launch for both of them were done under Conroy, if the LPA launch a third one, then, yeah, they could claim credit for that…
Cant understand how they keep parroting figures that have been shown false, which exaggerate timelines based on early-production bottlenecks resulting from state-based liberal govt. regulatory changes (key one being the ‘must get access approval by all property owners before running lead-ins’)…and the blow-out in costs being ‘lets just inflate everything by 25% for no fucking reason what so ever, disregarding the real world costs are actually dropping’.
Unreal
It is simple the media don’t hold them to account.
When they do hold them to account they are sacked or harassed until they quit.
Nothing will change when a Newspaper can publish lies on the front page and a retraction on page 52 there is no consequence for lying.
The consequences are people stop buying their newspapers and go to Delimiter and other such sites for there info. They are killing themselves one lie at a time.
Here is the problem most people don’t find out about the lies.
Either they are not interested enough to be bothered or the retraction does not have prominence so they don’t read it.
Why would they seek another source when they don’t know they are constantly being lied to. When it come to news today I pretty much fact check every article and assume they are not true until I find a number of sources saying the same thing.
Need to be cynical as all hell when viewing mainstream media today. Fact check *everything* manually. Sadly, many people simply aren’t capable of this.
@ AJ it doesn’t happen over night its a drawn out process, print media has been in decline for sometime. Now I have just heard that the Fairfax media is being paid to print Chinese propaganda and pass it off as news.
How many Tasmanians believed that they would all get FttP regardless because well that is what the MSM ‘published’ (ie failed to highlight that fast BB fibre).
Am I the only one, or is the “time labor FTTP would have taken” increasing? Now out 4-8 years?? Can they get a straight story?
They’ve modified their story from representing the timeframe lies published in SR13 about the original Labor FTTP rollout, to representing the timeframe lies published in CP16 about a new FTTP rollout post-MTM.
In what way is it a lie?
Lol devoid Increasing the cost of FTTP $1000 more than it was. The cp16 FTTP cost is cheaper than the SR.
Haveing half the cost of HFC and FTTN
Rizz,
Lol devoid Increasing the cost of FTTP $1000 more than it was.
Yes so where is the lie, more than it was when?
The cp16 FTTP cost is cheaper than the SR.
No it’s not.
Haveing half the cost of HFC and FTTN
Halving from what figure to what figure in what NBN reports?
Well devoid
$3900 quigley rollout
$4800 SR
$4400 CP16.
“The cp16 FTTP cost is cheaper than the SR.
No it’s not.”
I didn’t know $4400 = $4800
Fttn leak document say fttn would cost $700 but now it’s $2200
Adding 4 years for no discernible reason, claiming that a new rollout starting today would be completed at the exact same time as a near-identical rollout started 7 years ago…
And then hiding the data that the lie was based on as “CiC”…
I don’t take any notice of what the LNP say any more, they are full of shit. Can you imagine another 3 years under these clowns.
@ Justin ‘Am I the only one’ no Justin, I noticed it as well, more bullshit bullshit bullshit it’s about the only thing consistent with the LNP party.
Does anyone have a picture of FTTN cabinet submerged in the flood? Show those idiots how incompetent they are. Absolutely cannot be trusted with NBN project!
No don’t have a picture of one in flood waters but I can send you a picture of me pissing on one, will that do.
Avoid pissing on the batteries, they are a real shocker.
Most interesting. lol
“Lack of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong—these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history.” Winston Churchill 1935
I suspect the Libs are waiting for the ALP to release their policy and then weigh the options of either ridiculing it or to play one up-man-ship to a degree.
I honestly believe that short of a major public revolt, this may be the best possible outcome. Hopefully Labor comes out with their “FTTdp” based approach, which Liberals claim they won’t be able to implement, but that we can trust them to do it properly. So we get “FTTdp” at least as a baseline on both sides. Perhaps that’s wishful thinking.
I got FTTP NBN hooked up 2 months ago at my home. Apparently I was one of the “last approved streets” under Labor, or so the techs said when they were putting the cables in (over building the HFC). I wonder if it has anything to do with the 2000 or so new town-house lots going in all around me. Maybe it will offset the 20% reduction in my property values, due to the replacing of trees with high-density housing, on the very edge of Brisbane City area?!?
Isn’t this the Coalition’s overall strategy: “These are our principles and if they aren’t good enough, we have others”.
This statement effectively kicks a stone into the water in the dead of night and waiting to see what waves were created by the public and to coax a policy out of Labor to then base their own policy. This tells me that the Coalition are really worried that if the NBN leaks anymore it will become a screamer of an issue.
After watching QandA last night, I’m believing this more than ever. Barnaby went through his speaking notes (he was reading them) and tried the “no one has ever ordered a gigabit service”, “only 40 people have ordered 100Mbit services”…… and when T.Jones tried to pull him up he forced a few more key talking points like most people only order 25Mbit or slower…… It was actually one of his more stressed looks of the night (and there were a few).
I reckon their really worried that there policy, and the NBN in general, is going to be a live topic in this election.
Be nice if Factcheck would rip this one apart for us.
I actually liked the crowds reaction when he talking about that, they obviously didn’t buy it. If farmers “get it”, theres hope for the rest of Aus yet.
Oh yeah… they ripped into them over the NBN. I especially loved when they pointed out that the infrastructure needed to last into the future, not just today.
“meet its corporate plan target of 2.632 premises ready for service this financial year.”
Nearly three premises ready by the end of the month! I love an aspirational goal ;)
As someone “blessed” wih HFC I would settle for three premises ready in my area by the end of the calendar year. The Not-Broadband-Network is currently not even planning to begin speculating about the merest possibility of delivering on the promises of their political masters until next calendar year.
Misquoted “2.632 million premises”, see your link provided. Unlike Quigley’s thousands (rollout), at least now millions. Expenditure and losses still use billions.
Contrary to the FTTHer narrative, the improvement in rollout pace post new mananagenent is undeniable (even graphed;-). NBNCo likely to achieve their very first CP forecast in their 8th year (also graphed), not usually something to brag about given taxpayers billions wasted.
Both parties NBN policies will be enlightening. I suspect like the rest of their campaigns; scant regard to costs nor delivery, borrowing evermore to feed the electorate’s insatiable demand for stuff they wouldn’t pay for themselves.
@ Richard…
Q. The promised fully costed $29.5B to all by 2016, is?
A. Shhh
Funny how you continually forget this minor issue, and then go on to try to tell us all that FTTN is “faster to rollout than FTTP”…
Gee der… even though the above blow outs clearly suggest otherwise… but wasn’t that one of the trade offs for this inferior, retrograde obsolete network, err being faster to rollout, to all Aussies?
But sorry Richard, as demonstrated many times, the above debacle blowouts and those who would have had FTTP by now, but do not have FTTN yet and I’d guess they are in the 100’s of 1000’s (if not m’s), are living proof that your graph and your electioneering are both BS…
You’re welcome.
Rizz don’t for get the SR said 4.5 million would be connected this year as well.
Misquote Richard
Million not Millions
Hundreds of thousands not thousands
He’s not too good with “actual numbers”..
He tried to pass of 60m as 16m, when that suited the narrative.
Lets go to the actuals:
236,158 serviceable premises (ex SAT) @ 8-Sep-13 (5th year).
2,111,069 serviceable premises (ex SAT) @ 26-May-16 (8th years).
Total serviceable premises (ex SAT); 88.81% passed post election (21 mths), 40.11% post FTTN launch (8 mths). Brownfield performance even more devastating; 90.23% post election, 47.17% post FTTN launch (8 mths).
New v old management comparisons welcomed;-)
So Richard
The new management ripped up all current contracts and re did them did they.
So if labor gets back in this year they can take any credit from the 3 July on wards?
“So if labor gets back in this year they can take any credit from the 3 July on wards?”
They sure can, so if Labor continues the MTM as is, any and all FTTN/FTTB/HFC connected after the election is 100% because of Labor.
Except a MtM fixed line policy is Coalition policy, the Labor policy was to roll out FTTP to 93% of residences, unless they substitute all outstanding FTTN with either FTTP or FTTdp, they will be implementing Colation policy virtually unchanged.
Is it…?
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/06/06/nbn-statement-not-coalitions-final-nbn-policy/
Keep screaming for the others to be clearer though.
You’re welcome
oh so the Coalition are dropping MtM and replacing all FTTN build contracts with ‘something else’.
Sounds feasible three weeks out from the election.
ROFL
” they will be implementing Colation policy virtually unchanged.”
So? Any premises connected if Labor win power again can be claimed as Labors win. Just like the Coalition are doing claiming FTTH holdovers from the previous administration and the Skymuster launch :-)
@ alain
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/06/06/nbn-statement-not-coalitions-final-nbn-policy/
Try again.
You’re welcome
You actuals aren’t factuals ;o)
Of course not;-)
“2,111,069 serviceable premises”
Ah, remember when you brought me up for saying that 10% of Australia was covered? This year, when 100% of Australia was supposed to be covered?
A link? Typically not kind…
It was last week. Remember last week when you said I made up numbers and I said if you can’t keep up with week old numbers I can’t help you?
And bang on schedule he does a similar thing again.
Well, at least you’re regular.
Gotta love the selectivity Richard…
From someone who comes here to claim some strange completely unfounded superiority… to not factor the difference in NBN situations from Quigley to Morrow and keep harping on about carefully cherry-picked numbers (whilst always ignoring the $29.5B/2016 promise of course), is at best disingenuous, possibly mischievous and at worst out and out dishonest.
Let’s do the ever popular analogy (remember the Rolls Royce network etc) that those with such hindsight/sans foresight like Richard, seem to love so much…
Richard’s take in relation to a house building analogy would be…
All Quigley achieved in all of that time was to get a couple of frames up. Whereas Morrow came in and finished the walls and roof in the less time.
Of course neglecting all of the planning, surveying, drawings, block clearing/waste removal, utility/site preparation, excavating, footings/foundations etc etc, for Quigley which don’t apply nearly as much/if at all, to Morrow. Also he fails to accept that Quigley was going to brick the walls… whereas Morrow rode in with his sheets of asbestos and simply nailed them up.
Nice work Dick. Three cheers for the debacle MTM you claimed “you could have been commissioned to write”
You’re welcome.
whilst always ignoring the $29.5B/2016 promise of course),
Of course is correct, they changed it a long time ago, so we can ignore it.
Lol devoid then why are you asking for labor policy when they can change it when ever they want
Is that right Rizz?
“Of course is correct, they changed it a long time ago, so we can ignore it.”
I will make an election promise of giving you $1m, but post-election I will change that promise and so you can ignore it.
@ alain “Why do think Richard needs help, why are [sic] the great self appointed meddler, who thinks inserting a nonsensical rant supposedly to help out a fellow FTTP hater has any meaning at all?
You’re welcome.
LOL
I also think the [sic] was a nice touch Rizz!
Point out where I have helped Richard, he doesn’t need my help.
There… *sigh*
But I guess me copy/pasting (with slight alterations) what was your stupid comment, as a piss take… even with all of your grammatical errors, as you mouth slobberingly were compelled to reply there and then…
…has gone over your head?
Much like commonsense, reality, logic, rationality and impartiality always does.
You’re welcome.
Yeah, nearly 2.6 million premises, the majority of which are FTTH, all of which are because of the Labor plan and not the Coalitions. Oops.
You can spin numbers all you like, but the Fixed Wireless, current FTTH and Skymuster satellites are all because of Labor, and not the Coalition. Any numbers then claimed using those technologies by the Coalition, is a furphy at best, and completely disingenuous and lying at worst.
Quigley plan delivered millions of premises? Do we need to cover historical actuals again?
R0 claims MTM didn’t include LTE, FTTH nor satellites? True the govt should have walked away sub $10b lost to taxpayers, however they didn’t and the three most expensive techs were included?
Whilst remaining an expense policy folly, unlike under previous management the CP forecasts (cost, (pitiful) revenue & rollout) are finally being delivered.
FTTB solved Quigley’s 30% stuck at service class zero, FTTN already delivering an order of magnitude better than Quigley’s best rate. And HFC launch days before the election. Borrowed billions delivering a fraction of what international upgrades have already completed. Compare those using a fraction of taxpayer money, whilst generating a profit every-year.
A sorry we can all appreciate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n_8r0LU1i0
Reading comprehension fail there Richard. The only brownfields FTTH in place in the MTM is left over from the original Labor plan, the ramp up in speed started and continued until around March of 2014 when the brownfields contracts were being concluded.
Thus, any brownfields FTTH currently in the rollout, aka, the majority of the FTTH in the rollout, can not be attributed to the Coalition, as they are all contracts signed under the previous management.
Similarly, the Coalition have claimed all praise for the launch of the Skymuster satellites, satellites that they are now lumping more people onto instead of rolling out Wireless to those areas, when it was Labor and NBN Co under Labor that commissioned the satellites, the Coalition claiming that as “their win” is completely disingenuous.
Face it, the only reason the Coalition even have an NBN plan, is because Labor started it. Your beloved Coalition and other right wing nutbars would rather let the “free market” do its thing. Except for decades since Telstra was privatised, no fixed line upgrade has occurred. Please explain? Has Telstra been secretly rolling out FTTN or FTTP without telling anyone and without signing up any customers?
Claimed FTTH ramp-up disproved by actuals (even graphed): 8-week serviceable brownfield average ending 31-Mar-14 was 5,211 p.w. By 26-Mar-15 this had risen to 8,841. Prior to FTTN launch 11,206 for 8-weeks ending 24-Sep-15.
Graph shows linear growth from EFY2013 through to ECY2014, after growing exponentially.
SAT claim also untrue, same number of premises covered (discussed previously with link). Plus provisioning changes to the second satellite almost doubles available capacity (~ same # users).
My “beloved Coalition”? “Right wing nutbars” probably know of international comparisons and are happy to analysis them.
Maybe some numbers next time;-)
“SAT claim also untrue, same number of premises covered (discussed previously with link).”
This just in: 400,000 is the same and 200,000.
“Claimed FTTH ramp-up disproved by actuals (even graphed): 8-week serviceable brownfield average ending 31-Mar-14 was 5,211 p.w. By 26-Mar-15 this had risen to 8,841. Prior to FTTN launch 11,206 for 8-weeks ending 24-Sep-15.”
Right, so the increase in FTTP rollout speed that occurred wasn’t at all a ramp up, it was… uh…. the new management because it couldn’t possibly be the ramp up previously talked about. Kay.
I’ll let that skate on by.
hotc yawn:
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/01/05/nbn-fttn-kills-off-adsl-for-metro-customer-to-be-replaced-with-satellite/#li-comment-711613
R0 doesn’t see a ramp-up;-)
Must be like Tony Abbott saying that the deficit would fix itself now “We’re in charge”….that went well….
Check those dates again.
Sure, must be like Tony Abbott saying something or other;-)
“R0 claims MTM didn’t include LTE, FTTH nor satellites”
Numbers man not so good at reading comprehension. This explains his maths.
“the three most expensive techs were included?”
How is the $46b FTTP to 93% of Aus plan more expensive than the $71.6b MTM to 100% of Aus plan?
Because it’s not $46B or $71.6B.
How much is it today Reality? Is this like one of those Debit Clock things?
Sorry Alain, would you prefer if I quoted the CP16 figures?
OK, how is the (criminally misrepresented SR13 figure of) $54b FTTP to 93% of Aus plan more expensive than the $56b MTM to 100% of Aus plan?
Too easy, it’s not $56B in the first place.
@ alain
It was $29.5B in the first place…
So how much is it now then?
GO
You’re welcome
He, and even nbn™, don’t know.
“Too easy, it’s not $56B in the first place.”
The CP16 figure is $56 and Hockeys’ more recent figure is $71.6b. You don’t get to make numbers up in this game, so choose one.
As Mike said it would…the “new” management were just working off the “old” management’s designs.
The “new” management will only be able to take credit for things they themselves have done.
Queue the tumbleweeds.
If the new management had worked of new and improved designs instead of suppress them the FttP would have been even quicker and faster than it was (ie Project Fox).
Right, credit for turning around an entirely dysfunctional company. 4.5yrs covering 3k serviceable brownfield a week (forecast 6k a day).
Project Fox (rofl)
You want to credit them for Mikes work, that’s your call. Mike always said it would ramp up, and it did, exactly the way he said it would.
Now we just need to wait and see if their MTM portion of the NBN can ramp up in the same way.
50% removed from the FTTP rollout target from original estimates is a ramp up is it?
The ramp under the Labor NBN Co was adjusted so the angle was less and less.
LOL
Apparently to Richard, devoid a 75% removed from the FTTN target is a ramp up.
The ramp under the Coalition NBN Co was adjusted so the angle was less and less.
What 75%?
The 25Mbps to all by this year not 2.5 million getting connected this year
We don’t have to wait, numbers coming in (graphed by myself and DC). Sadly many can’t read a basic graph.
Richard where does your graph include the pre election policy or even the SR
The pre election policy was changed, the SR of 2013 was updated with estimates of CP 16 released August 2015.
Lol devoid as long as you mention the 50% labor miss “original” target claim I will still mention the 75% missed “original” target
Jk I didn’t include Conroy’s policy either, nor Quigley’s first or third (withheld from the electorate) CPs, nor lunar cycles…
If you think any are important you could always graph them themselves (rofl;-).
Lol Richard
Well Richard it would be lovely to see who many times they had to “revised”. Like the 3 times in a year to claim they hit a target. But then to go from claiming everyone to get 25Mbs by this year to 4.5m to get the NBN this year to only 2.5m this and double to cost before even starting is pretty impressive.
JK,
I will still mention the 75% missed “original” target
You still have not explained how you calculated this, what original target, state the figure and where you got it from take 75% off gives what NBN Co released figure?
All ready have devoid when you asked for it last time with links included.
The 2013 election policy states no less than 8 times of delivering 25Mbps to all by this year. Now according to the CP16 only 2.5m will be connected this year.
So out of the 10m premises to get 25Mbps by this year vs 2.5m getting it now is 75%
Laugh all you like, even Fifield recognises it:
JK,
The 2013 election policy states no less than 8 times of delivering 25Mbps to all by this year.
Since changed after the SR13 results and changes released to the media.
Now according to the CP16 only 2.5m will be connected this year.
Interesting , the latest NBN Report Q3 FY2016 released on Friday 6th May 2016 has Premises RFS at 2,009,259, with 963,476 added just in that quarter, they will pass the 2.5M easy even at the current construction rate which for FTTN is accelerating by the time 2016 is finished.
Have another go.
lol devoid not sure where you got 2,009,259 and your others figures.
http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco2/documents/nbn-rollout-metrics/nbn-rollout-metrics-020616.pdf
As of May 5 2,066,674 which doesn’t included the 400k from the instant sat.
Jun 2 2,587,411 which includes the 400k from the instant sat.
From January to June 964,439 which includes the 400k sat which not a quarter but half a year lol.
So without the instant 400k sat it’s only 561,354 for fixed line and wireless.
Please have another go devoid but please use some credibility
Jk Yawn:
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/05/24/hypocrisy-afr-launches-bizarre-attack-labor-nbn-raids/#li-comment-740082
Ah detail.
Richard yawn
Ahh yes your selective figures again.
Must like the FTTN tender was the best policy claimed by you that the private sector didn’t want to invest in lol
Richard
So when will mtm be faster so far fastest for FTTN is 193 days while the fastest FTTP aka project fox was 166 days.
Man, they better get a hurry on to get 25Mbit to all by the end of this year. Oh… wait… that was “revised” oops.
Oh wait , yes it was.
And yet you ranted and raved about revisions to Labors plan.
You’re a hypocrite. Thanks for playing.
You ignored the Labor revisions and the massive 50% target cut back, so what’s that a different kind of hypocrisy?
FTTP supporters and Labor apologists, always interested in the one way street argument.
@ alain…
No you criticised the last mob for any and all revisions daily, but fully sanction, excuse, agree with and even argue support for the latest mob doing the same, but even more so.
Oh dear, the hypocrisy and contradictions have no end.
Youre welcome
Why do think Ronin needs help, why are the great self appointed meddler, who thinks inserting a nonsensical rant supposedly to help out a fellow MtM hater has any meaning at all?
I personally don’t care that the Coalition plan was revised, I am just pointing out you’re a hypocrite.
Shit happens, projects as large as this slow down at points and speed up at others, revising targets is part of the game.
My point is, you derided Labor and the previous NBN management for missing and revising targets, and yet when the Coalition get in and do the EXACT SAME THING, it is all fine and dandy in your world. Thus, you’re a hypocrite.
I would really love to know where you stand on issues like piracy and media consumption, only because I really want to know if we are completely diametrically opposed on every topic, or if you just hate Labor so have to fight everything NBN to the death.
+1 R0nin, my point exactly…
The hypocrisy along with impudence is breathtaking.
Speaking of meddling and pointless meddling here’s alain…
PRICELESS.
You keep getting that wrong, we’re not “MtM haters”, we’re “FttN haters”.
Please try and get it correct in the future.
“You keep getting that wrong, we’re not “MtM haters”, we’re “FttN haters”.
Please try and get it correct in the future.”
Not even just that for me, I live in Japan, I have FTTH already, and next month will be upgrading to unlimited gigabit FTTH when I move to Osaka. I gain nothing by advocating and pushing for FTTH in Australia, as I haven’t lived in Australia for the past 5 years, and likely wont be moving back in the next 5 (if at all).
That said, I still recognise when money is being wasted for politically ideological reasons, and want to see the best long term solution used. If FTTN was the best long term solution, I’d be campaigning for it, but it just isn’t.
“Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.” lol
“Contrary to the FTTHer narrative, the improvement in rollout pace post new mananagenent is undeniable”
Indeed, the ramp down from Labors FTTP contracts to all of the Coalitions FTTP contracts (0) is impressive.
“Unlike Quigley’s thousands (rollout), at least now millions”
Given that 76% of nbn connections are connected to Labor-contracted FTTP, how does 75% of millions = thousands? Numbers man not so good at maths. Oh dear.
“borrowing evermore to feed the electorate’s insatiable demand for stuff they wouldn’t pay for themselves.”
Interesting statement, given that consumers were denied access to these technologies prior to the NBN, consumers are taking up these technologies now that they have been made available to them, and funding the cost of rollout out these technologies privately would defeat the purpose of calling it ‘national’. And I know tons of people with a spare $46b to blow for other peoples’ benefit besides.
Still using half truths hey Richard.
FTTN faster to rollout. Sure, but lets just forget that it is a much poorer service, and will need to be replaced in the not too distant future.
You also forget to acknowledge the reduction in costs and improvement in rollout speeds that other similar rollouts throughout the world have identified, and even that were being tested here as part of Project Fox.
You are still a liar and a cad.
Nailed it.
They aren’t terribly good at policy in general really. Remember that mining boom we had where John Howard and Peter Costello pissed away the record royalties on tax cuts and pork barreling?
“Most profligate PM in Australia’s History” I think the OECD said…
….. and we wait and wait and wait for the masterpiece labelled the 2016 Labor NBN Policy, or what you might call a how to turn ‘water into wine’ white paper.
“shit, wish we hadn’t mentioned FTTdp” and anyone know what to do with HFC?”
What are they going to do hand out the NBN policy with the Labor how to vote cards at each polling centre?
Your right, maybe rather than waiting and seeing what can be done and announcing a goal to get fibre as close to the premises as they can, they should lie through their teeth pre-election then sort it out after the election. If things don’t go well with a change over to include more fibre they can always claim responsibility for premises past from the existing FTTN contracts. You know the story ;) You seem to tell it enough.
Hey, it worked for the coalition for a whole range of policies!
News flash devoid labor going to do FTTP for $29B complete this year. Hmm this policy sounds very familiar
The good old Labor apologists ducking and weaving, tap dancing, smoke grenades everywhere and divert back to the Coalition quick, less than four weeks out from the election there is no Labor NBN policy.
What have they been doing for the last three years obviously just head kicking the Coalition MtM, the easy stuff, now they have to come up with their own different solution.
“oh shit”
What a joke.
No devoid becuase according to you they can say anything they want because it doesn’t matter becuase it can be “revised” hence my comment.
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/06/06/nbn-statement-not-coalitions-final-nbn-policy/
Oh dear, but that’s ok, I’m sure… *sigh*
You’re welcome
“The good old Labor apologists ducking and weaving, tap dancing, smoke grenades everywhere and divert back to the Coalition quick, less than four weeks out from the election there is no Labor NBN policy.”
And where’s the Liberal policy by the way?
“now they have to come up with their own different solution.”
They’ve already done that. It was announced 2 years ago. It was essentially re-announced for the election. Not much has changed. Pay attention.
“What a joke.”
How embarrassing for you, Alain.
Hotrizz,
And where’s the Liberal policy by the way?
It’s out there being constructed, have you been in a cave hibernating for three years?
Wow so they are in power but don’t even have a policy?
What have they been doing for 3 years “hibernating”?
Well they are good at hibernating so you told us eh?Remember?
You told us that from Sept 2013 – 2015… there was two years of hibernation, before FTTN was released…
Thanks again for pointing out the mismanagement of the “fully costed ready to roll out plan, which hibernated for two years before getting officially underway, is way over budget and now years behind it planned completion date.”
Seems we all agree it is the fuck up of all fuck ups… and has o fuck up peer.
With a friend like you alain, the Coalition don’t need enemies… is that you Peta?
Apology accepted/You’re welcome.
“It’s out there being constructed”
delimiter.com.au/2016/06/06/nbn-statement-not-coalitions-final-nbn-policy
How embarrassing for you, Alain.
It’s really, really eating you that they haven’t released their policy yet, isn’t it? :o)
Maybe they’ll do it when Malcolm releases his, give him a call on your speed-dial and hurry him up?
“….. and we wait and wait and wait for the masterpiece labelled the 2016 Labor NBN Policy”
And where’s the Liberal policy by the way?
They have said “More Fibre” that beats the Coalition policy already. Anything else is just gravy.
Labor: “the NBN is a key election issue”
Voters : ” No it isn’t”
Out of a choice of seven topics, the National Broadband Network was the least selected option
http://www.zdnet.com/article/nbn-named-as-most-important-issue-for-6-percent-of-voters/
oh dear.
How ironic a pic of Julian Leeser… Peter Reith’s partner in the report that said the NBN was a large factor in them not winning the 2010 election…
But you know that, but choose to pick one word out of that report to perform the daily alain illogical tap dance…
Oh dear.
You’re welocme
Peter Reith’s partner in the report that said the NBN was a large factor in them not winning the 2010 election…
That’s not what the report said , it said the NBN may have been a factor in one small rural electorate, Bass in Tasmania.
Never mind Bass was won by the Coalition in 2013, where of course the NBN was not a factor, it’s only a factor when Labor win, not the other way around.
Thank you for letting me explain yet again how a Rizz own goal works.
It’s just too easy… ROFL
You owe me $1 HC…
alain again… you do understand that one small rural seat’s impact in a “hung parliament”?
If not, ask Julian and Peter, they do?
But, but, but 2013… was never mentioned, keep tap dancing.
GOLD
You’re welcome
Stand by for smoke grenades, moving goal posts and lot’s of mirrors when he realises his mistake :o)
Bass out of all the seats in Australia caused the hung Parliament?
Amazing just one electorate of only 99,000 caused the hung Parliament.
I see you let go through to the keeper the result of the 2013 election won by the Liberals with a healthy swing of 8.14%, nothing to do with the NBN though, but apparently the 2010 election in Bass was all about the NBN and caused the hung Parliament (Rizz nonsensical logic).
LOL
@ alain
Firstly, that’s another $1 you owe me HC…lol
Again alain (spoon feed time) we aren’t talking about 2013, WTF are you on? So AGAIN I have never even disagreed with you re 2013. In fact I have agreed.
Got it this time? No thought not…
Now that that is clear to everyone (except one I bet)…
Here’s one that’ll do your mind alain… from the Australian (yay) but check the author. Might pay to feed the mouse before reading in case the melon implodes…
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/business-spectator/nbn-contributed-to-2010-coalition-election-loss-report/news-story/ec10736b4f1e5dac0f0f56df7d89de16
Keep playing silly pedantic semantics, just to be childishly argumentative (again/still/perpetually), whilst everyone else and even the Coalition themselves don’t have a problem admitting to “reaility”.
Apology accepted.
Thats a rather desperate sounding “LOL” there Reality ;o)
He’s been denying this since the report first came out years ago, highlighting one word “might” (note he can’t even get that right now and says may… LOL) to argue over and ignore the clear intent.
So don’t expect rational logic to hit home with dearest alain, any time soon, if ever TM.
Is that “might” as in ” unicorns “might” exist” Rizz? :o)
+1
Doesn’t really matter, there’s a plethora of other reasons not to vote for the LPA ;o)
If you saw Q n A last night. It’s pretty clearly an issue for Tamworth and the New England region.
All of Tamworth and New England managed to get into the ABC Q & A studio, amazing.
qanda has a studio in New England?! I thought they rented a hall?
That is really pathetic Reality. Are you seriously quibbling over that.
Wow. Ok let me rephrase that for you.
The large group of 750 people from Tamworth and the New england region, who were in the town hall(and large numbers watching on a big screen outside), including the vice president of the NSW Farmer’s federation, and a local Business representative as well as independent Tony Windsor and Nationals Leader Barnaby Joyce.
Barnaby did a great job the way. Rather than answering a question regarding contamination of farmland by mining and CSG with how he as the deputy prime minister and Nationals Leader was acting to fix the issue, he just blamed it on Labor.
Almost familiar in fact… Reality… You aren’t Barnaby are you?
Does that Poll, ask if it is an issue at all?
IE does it say “list your core issues numbered 1 – 10” Or does it say “Pick from the list which is the most important”
Because you will get very very different answers. Just because something isn’t number 1 doesn’t mean its not important.
theres 3 weeks FFS ! where are the damn policy details from both parties!
Comments are closed.