Budde says Turnbull may announce FTTdp as NBN election policy


news Veteran telco analyst Paul Budde this week said it was his view that the speed and cost advantages of the NBN’s new Fibre to the Distribution Point (FTTdp) model might lead Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to announce it as the Coalition’s new NBN policy ahead of this year’s Federal Election.

Over the past several weeks, a series of leaked documents have revealed trials that the NBN company has been carrying out of ‘skinny fibre’ and Fibre to the Distribution Point technologies.

The combination of the two technologies appears to offer the NBN company a mechanism for delivering Fibre to the Premises-like speeds at a cost not incomparable to the Coalition’s preferred Fibre to the Node model. This has led to speculation that the NBN company could, in line with a potential new Coalition NBN policy, announce a shift from FTTN to FTTdp/skinny fibre as part of the Coalition’s Multi-Technology Mix approach to the NBN.

In a blog post published late last week, Budde — a long-time critic of the MTM re-shaping of the NBN — said it was possible that FTTdp’s advantages could lead to Turnbull adopting the model as official NBN policy, replacing the Coalition’s previous focus on the technically inferior Fibre to the Node model. We recommend you click here for the full blog post.

Budde said it was clear — as he and others had predicted — that the cost of deploying fibre would eventually come down below the cost of deploying copper-based technologies such as FTTN.

“There is no doubt that fibre technology will eventually be cheaper than copper technology,” he wrote. “And even more importantly the long-term maintenance costs of fibre are significantly lower than those of copper.”

When you combined the sinking costs of fibre with the fact that NBN chief executive Bill Morrow had indicated that a decision to shift to FTTdp would be up to the Government, Budde said it was clear that the NBN company already believed FTTdp was the best option for the NBN.

This fact, along with the recent spate of leaked NBN documents, the need for a positive vision for the NBN during the election and the likelihood that the Opposition would also adopt a FTTdp policy, could lead Turnbull to “to take the bull by the horns and announce his own FTTdp policy, carefully replacing the FttN solution,” Budde wrote.

“It looks like the NBN company also wants to go this way, so for heaven’s sake let us finally get the government and the politics out of the way so that our extremely capable engineers at the NBN company can do a proper job,” he wrote.

Speaking at the National Press club last week, Communications Minister Mitch Fifield indicated the Government was open to using different technologies as part of the NBN.

The NBN company’s executive team has already taken a proposal to the NBN company’s board for a broad FTTdp rollout.

However, so far, both Fifield and Morrow have also indicated that they see the FTTdp option as only a part of the NBN’s mix, alongside other technologies such as FTTN, HFC cable and FTTP.

The Opposition has been predicting for some time that the Government would abandon its plans to deploy FTTN and replace that approach with a FTTdp model.

“They are trialing this now, I suspect before the next election, they will announce they are going to ditch their copper NBN and roll out fibre to the driveway instead and when they do, remember this point: it will be proof that Malcolm Turnbull got it wrong on the NBN,” said Shadow Communications Minister Jason Clare in December last year.

I agree with Budde on this one: As I have previously written, the FTTN model is virtually dead at this point, with no commentator making a coherent argument that it represents a better path forward than the FTTdp/skinny fibre combination.

Image credit: Paul Budde


  1. Seems like a no-brainer.

    You don’t have to deal with power companies, you don’t have to roll out FDH cabinets or nodes. You don’t have to pay for power, and you don’t have to pay massive amounts for copper remediation.

    Lower operating costs and faster speeds are possible – only an idiot or those with vested interests would think otherwise.

    • Arguably FTTdp brings new challenges – something a trial (and more work) is needed to address. I wouldn’t call this an open/shut case by any measure. Claiming only people who have vested interests would object to this is short sighted.

      Deploying something like this requires an overall network architecture to tie it all together. You still need things like aggregation nodes, design for network contention and a myriad of other things (including the fact they are active devices – so need to be tied into monitoring & management platforms). You also need a method of deploying this in an area – this won’t be a clean as FTTN.

      Actual performance in the field needs to be tested. How ruggedized & water/dust proof are the units? How long can they practically live in a pit before they develop issues and need replacing?

      Staff operations needs to be checked. Can field staff provision, repair & above all else find the units? (they are small and will be placed in pits, also multiple devices may be in a pit). Can remote staff monitor, management & troubleshoot on the devices effectively?

      All things that need to be sorted out before it can be practically deployed as a product.

      • “Arguably FTTdp brings new challenges – something a trial (and more work) is needed to address. ”

        Its a good thing they did trials in 2014, and then are doing more in April for it then, isn’t it?

      • In spite of all of that, FTTdp still has a lot going for it financially, politically as well as technologically.

        It is time for compromise and a rollout that has bipartisanship so that we can move on with confidence, instead of having a project continually vulnerable to being cut down and precious momentum halted by another change of government. They have the wrong broadband policy, but the Libs aren’t going away either and would still have great influence.

        We need something like FTTdp at this late stage, when Australia’s broadband ranking is 49th and falling and when the Turnbull Government’s polling is looking as dicey as it is going into an election.

    • Not really, they will just turn around and say they never really supported FTTN, and only supported faster, cheaper, affordable and if FTTdp is that, then they always supported it.

      (Even if they fought against it previously with people who did actually support it).

      • “Not really, they will just turn around and say they never really supported FTTN…”

        Of course they will… they don’t have a solid position, they flip-flop wildly and are devoid of any honesty, ethics and morals.

        If Mal threw his hands in the air tomorrow and said fuck it just do FttP, we all know, they’d be the first here to say they supported FTTP all along *sigh*

        Still doesn’t mean we can’t embarrass them, in the process ;)

    • Indeed Rizz. I think the most pertinent thing about this is that the coalition clowns actually need a new “NBN” policy. Remember when I said many years ago they they would have to keep modifying their plan until they came to the FttP conclusion. We also remember the squeals from the copper fanboy knuckle-draggers telling us that the copper was up to the task and FttN was fine (25mbps is enough for anyone). So here we are, GimpCo is now apparently contemplating FttDp (Almost FttP but not actually FttP, that’s VERY important) yet still telling us 50mbps is good enough for 10 years. lol. What a farce this has become (just as we predicted).

    • “I agree with Budde on this one: As I have previously written, the FTTN model is virtually dead at this point, with no commentator making a coherent argument that it represents a better path forward than the FTTdp/skinny fibre combination.”

      e.g. @Reality, @Richard, @Mr Shark, etc.

  2. Given that Budde has come out to say that the LNP will go to the election with FTTdp as their policy…. Doesn’t that mean that Turnbull will now definitely NOT announce it as policy because he has to do things contrary to what people say he should/will do?

  3. Its still ADSL. Still the same old problem with the crap wiring to the pit. Unless they are going to replace the telephone lines with new copper that would be a joke.

    You’d have to be really thick. This will trick the dumb because they would have no idea so a scam. They think wireless is the future its incredible ! lol

    • It isn’t ADSL. It will be either VDSL or G.Fast. Regarding the copper issue, if you don’t have a problem with the line in the very last 100m or so, you shouldn’t encounter any problems. It is my understanding that the majority of phone line problems are in the 50m or so from the pillar, rather than the end coming from your property, and since the copper needs to be terminated at the mini node, that would remove a large section of problem copper.

      Don’t get me wrong, I still prefer FTTP, but FTTdp is a step in the right direction, and a much better option than FTTN.

  4. Surely, if NBNCo are truly technology agnostic, the government of the day couldn’t announce changes in technology as a policy? Because, NBNCo are being totally objective at the moment in their tech choices, right? Not influenced by politics at all. Malcolm may as well not announce it as policy because the management of NBNCo have always been choosing the technology based solely on its merits.

    Announcing FTTdp would allow one thing. The ability to hide how far behind the FTTN rollout is. They can claim the shortfall is due to the change in technology rather than because it was FTTN was such a stupid idea for many reasons the “never wrong” Turnbull poo pooed over the years.

    • Morrow says their choice of technology is required to be based on the cheapest up-front cost that provides the minimum speed requirement for a premises, which is why they say they are tied to FTTN still; it’s still the cheapest up-front in most cases. (Can’t remember where I read this, sorry)

      So according to him, while the government doesn’t directly specify the tech, they do indirectly with the above requirement placed on NBN Co. It works out really well because the Gov. can spout about being technology agnostic without it being really true.

      FTTdp seems like an obvious compromise to finally end all this political crap (and the public debate). I’m coming more and more to believe NBN Co. are doing the best they can and aren’t wrapped up in the politics, but at the same time everyone there wants to keep their jobs…

      • It’s in the blog post the subject of this piece.

        ““For me the most telling element of the whole leaked document story is the statement made by NBN’s CEO Bill Morrow at the end of an ABC Lateline program. He indicated that his mandate from the government was to build the cheapest NBN in the fastest way possible, and that FTTdp does not yet sit nicely within that mandate.””

      • They were also told to look at it being able to efficiently upgrade as required. FTTN need nearly a complete new roll out, whereas FTTdp allows pretty cheap and quick upgrades that could easily be done in an on demand basis.

        When you are spending $56B, what’s an extra $1.5B to allow it to be easily upgraded? They are going to waste way more than that in about 5 or so years when they are bypassing the nodes because they are obsolete.

        • ” They are going to waste way more than that in about 5 or so years when they are bypassing the nodes because they are obsolete.”

          They’re going to piss more than that away in those 5 years in OPEX alone for FTTN and HFC…

        • They have no concern at all for OPEX or efficient upgrades because the aim (of the Libs) is to sell it all off to corporations to deal with. Low OPEX and efficient upgrades make all the sense in the world, but only if you’re keeping the network.

          The NBN is just a quick and dirty interim thing to tide the masses over until the sell-off. It’s all pre-ordained. Privatisation is a done deal for the coalition. Being cost-effective doesn’t get a look in. Fifield and Morrow keep saying “quickest and cheapest rollout.”

      • “they are tied to FTTN still; it’s still the cheapest up-front in most cases”
        Then how do you explain the fact that the rollout for MTM now costs overall more than the highest estimates for Labors FTTP policy while Labor were in charge?

  5. no commentator making a coherent argument that it represents a better path forward than the FTTdp/skinny fibre combination.

    Not wrong there Renai, Reality especially is becoming more incoherent by the day…I’m worried he’ll explode in an implosion of “stupid” if they do announce Fttdp!

    It’s going to be interesting to see if Malcolm sticks to his politics, or not, on this one, the “Abbott way” would be for him to stick to his guns and not change a thing, so politically, it would also be a good way to differentiate himself from the Abbott brand.

  6. “no commentator making a coherent argument that [FTTN] represents a better path forward than the FTTdp/skinny fibre combination.”
    No commentator made a coherent argument that FTTN represents a better path forward than FTTP, either.

    • “No commentator made a coherent argument that FTTN represents a better path forward than FTTP, either.”

      Being fair, FTTN ~should~ be quicker to rollout than FTTP. Assuming you dont have to waste 2 years negotiating with the owner of the copper network to be able to access the copper to be able to build it….

      • And the power companies who, after all, still want to make a buck (being privatised and all). If nbn™ don’t like what the power companies are offering, they should go elsewhere….oh, wait…

      • “Assuming you dont have to waste 2 years negotiating with the owner of the copper network to be able to access the copper to be able to build it….”
        So what’s the excuse for the other 2 years in the (so far) 4 year timeframe blowout?

  7. “Malcolm may as well not announce it as policy because the management of NBNCo have always been choosing the technology based solely on its merits.”

    Good point. Perhaps that’s why Morrow has announced the trials and said he expects 300,000 connected with FTTdp by 2017.

    • Well, it wasn’t a good point, it was obviously sarcasm.

      Morrow has already indicated he wished to do more but the government wouldn’t let him. Sort of makes that claim of being based on merit, well, a lie, doesn’t it?

      • The problem is the Statement of Expectations. For nbn™, that’s the same as a company’s constitution, and it specifically states nbn™ needs to go with options that will minimise peak funding. So even if it’s $50/pp, they are required to go with it.

        Malcolm would need to alter the SoE to include something that gives nbn™ some leeway on the tech choice if it is close to the cheapest option, and has the potential to increase profits (Fttdp would fit that description then).

        • The SoE *should* allow FttDp, because it *should* be based on “lowest total cost”, and/or “highest return”.

          Instead, it appears to be based on “lowest upfront capital cost”, with no consideration for either total cost over time, or effective return.

          Reminds me of the hose nozzles my dad buys. They’re really cheap, only $2.50 at the junk shop! Of course, they break after about a month, so he goes through 10-15 a year, instead of buying a $25 nozzle that will last 10 years… but they’re really cheap!!!

        • I agree, but Morrow can’t change the SoE, MT needs to do that…and as soon as possible IMHO.

        • That depends on what peak funding you mean. There is the partisan modeled one where the nodes are still there after the roll out is complete and the likely reality, the nodes are replaced by FTTdp before the roll out is complete.

          • I don’t understand what you are trying to say. The nodes have nothing to do with peak funding.

      • “Morrow has already indicated he wished to do more but the government wouldn’t let him.”

        When did Morrow say that? NBN Co already plan to connect 300,000 up with FTTdp. If it is cost effective to do so then obviously NBN Co will do more.

        • He is bound by the SoE, the SoE currently restricts NBN Co to deploying the cheapest infrastructure with the cheapest upfront costs (peak funding), so unless FTTdp after the trials, ends up being cheaper than FTTN, they are bound by the SoE to continue to rollout FTTN.

          The SoE needs to be adjusted to allow for FTTdp unless FTTdp is cheaper than FTTN.

          • No kingforce NBN is bound by the at least 25Mbps since adsl2+ is out. FTTN is the next cheapest unless there are certain issues where CPP is higher than other options to deliver.

            Hence why west half of tas is getting sat because NBN don’t want to pay for the redundant fibre link for FTTN.

          • “That’s a misinterpretation. The SoE doesn’t bind NBN Co to FTTN.”

            I never said it binds them to FTTN, I actually said it clearly, they are bound to the cheapest technology.

            FTTN is cheaper than FTTdp. Thus, they are bound to roll out FTTN until such time as either FTTdp is cheaper than FTTN or the SoE is changed to not be focused on the cost of the rollout.

          • “they are bound to the cheapest technology.”

            The SoE states that NBN Co are to use the most “cost-effective” technology.

          • And how does “most cost-effective” not mean cheapest to you?

            It has nothing to do with the OPEX, it has nothing to do with anything other than what is the cheapest in regards to CPP. It refers to the most cost-effective method in CAPEX.

            Until such time as FTTdp is cheaper CPP than FTTN, they are bound to using the most cost-effective (read: cheapest CPP) method of delivering broadband, which is FTTN in the non-HFC rollout area.

            Continue playing semantic gymnastics.

          • As for that Delimiter article you linked, that’s obviously wrong.

            If Morrow just announced plans to connect 300,000 to FTTdp, then how can the government be “blocking FTTdp”?

          • Becuase it’s a trial lol

            Like the trial of 200k FTTN in 2014 that Telstra helped with even though there offical FTTN start was only last year.

          • If trials are a success then NBN Co continues with the volume FTTdp rollout connecting 300,000.

          • Lol kingforce so are they going to stop FTTN now wait for the trails to finish then decide FTTN or FTTdp

          • It’s a trial to 300,000 premises.

            If the trial comes back with the costs being lower than FTTN, then they will change to FTTdp, if it doesn’t, don’t be coming here crying when NBN Co continue rolling out FTTN because their hands are tied by the SoE. But by all means, say Renai doesn’t understand what the SoE means, it isn’t like he spends his entire day digging through this stuff, or spent significant time working with Senator Ludlam or anything like that…. No. His article must be wrong, and you yet another LibTroll, is here to tell us how wrong we all are.

            Go watch Lateline, as the article I linked told you to, to get the full story.

            The Government gave NBN Co an SoE when they took power to provide broadband at the quickest possible pace, for the least cost. That does NOT include OPEX, as much as you want to pretend it does.

            FTTN has significantly more OPEX than both FTTdp and FTTP, if OPEX was a factor, FTTN wouldn’t have been in the mix from the beginning.

            Stop trying to rewrite history with your conservative revisionist bollocks.

          • @ KingForce

            Oh look we have another, who has taken the baton from our usual jester… again gone MIA when confronted by his own ridiculously contradictory comments.

            Another, like the other, who when confronted with facts and inevitably found wanting, also goes the, irrational, childish, argumentative route.

            Arguing over semantics? Seriously?

            You disingenuously altered another’s words (twice) and then hypocritically have the audacity to claim he had misrepresented and deride him for your altered words.


            Go and reread what R0nin actually said, here at this very thread, which you and I are responding to… 24/3 – 3:04. Then apologise to him

            Unbelievable, that you guys will continually stoop so low as to argue over your own warped interpretation of what someone said, rather than the actual words said.

            You argue over pedantics and semantics, by particularly pin pointing a word or two (even when the words mean the same fucking thing) just to be argumentative, due to not being able to man-up when your own baseless, ridiculous comments are easily discredited.

            It’s like all of you on the anti-Labor (yes you read it right – as opposed to most here like me, on the pro-FttP side – BIG difference in mindsets and motives) are all full of the same substance.

            And we all know exactly what substance that is…

          • And there it is… the far rights two answers to everything “poor me”… “someone else’s fault”.

            Rather than aplogising to R0nin for changing his words and arguing the strawman, you blame me and claim me a bully for highlighting your ridiculous dishonesty? Really…

            Oh poor you, indeed..

        • @Jason K

          In 2013 NBN Co planned for about 3.5 million premises to get FTTN. Recently NBN Co has said that 300,00 could be earmarked for FTTdp.

          The point is that NBN Co has flexibility to switch technology (taking into account opex, revenue and capital cost) as technology developments advance.

    • Wow looks like the FRAUDBAND fans are already abandoning Nodafail™ the very network they have argued for, against all logic, over the last 3 or 4 years…

      I’ll repeat a paragraph I read about Trump supporters who are incredibly like Nodafail™ supporters…

      “One of the most perplexing parts of the Donald Trump experience is that his fans don’t seem to believe in anything. They hold no principles they won’t instantly abandon on a whim; they never practice what they preach, and what they preach has absolutely no relation to reality.”

  8. Libs will announce FTTdp only if they think there is a possibility of losing the election.

    The reason being that labor would have a chance to prove skinny fibre rollout is cheaper than NBNco say.

      • If I was Labor, I’d kick it out now: “Plan A: FTTP where it makes sense, Plan B: use FTTdp where it makes sense, Plan C: Figure out how and when to move HFC/FTTN to one of the above in the most cost effective time frame.

        I don’t get they haven’t moved on it yet. This will be one of those actually accurate times the Opposition can cite the mess the Govt has left them (blame). If the Coalition announce it first then the strategy of allowing them to swing by their own rope will fail PDQ.

      • “an election sweetener”, yes but also gives them a chance to say something has made FTTdp cheaper and therefore financially viable in their technology agnostic approach.

        • If Bill can show he can shave $300-400 off Fttdp, he can go ahead and get nbn™ to install it without even having to check with Malcolm thanks to the SoE.

          I expect that’s what the large scale trials are about, so they’ll get there with or without Malcolms nod, so him declaring a change to Fttdp as a political sweetener is only on the table for a limited time.

          • Expected time a VDSL unit in the pit will last before it malfunctions?
            5 years, 10 years. That’s a lot of work & $.

            Imagine if even 5% of them fail after 5 years. Active electronics in the pit is stupid.

          • Joe, I guess thats the point of doing trials, to work these things out.

            Nobody will argue that technically speaking, FTTP is fundamentally a more robust and better technology than FTTN or FTTdp. (I say nobody, but I am sure the resident LibTrolls will attempt to argue that FTTN is exactly the same as FTTP)

            However, thats not what the issue is anymore. Full FTTP is dead, it isn’t coming back, we now have to fight to get the best possible solution we can. FTTdp represents that far more than FTTN does.

        • 2-party-preferred polling is at 50-50, giving Labor with another leader a chance to win. Turnbull’s supporters in the party are reportedly in marginal seats with Abbott breathing down his neck. A hostile senate is blocking his agenda. He’s under the pump. He needs a sweetener. It’s all pointing to it :))

          • One of Malcolm’s biggest political issues currently, is how to differentiate himself from Abbott while running with most of Abbott era policies. He’s trying to say his cities policy shows he is different, but everyone thinks thats a joke.

            Dumping the Abbott policy for FttN, and continuing the NBN with Fttdp would be a good start to showing he’s changed and breaking free from the Abbott mould.

            Or, he can just leave things as they are and hope the ALP don’t push it as their policy and become the ones that give FttP speeds at near FttN prices :o)

  9. What if NBN did FTTdp everywhere, and home owners dug their own trenches and ran fibre inside their house themselves? If civil works are the costly part, I’m willing to get a shovel from the shed and get my dig on.

    • Because that would nullify their arguments over the past 3 years that HFC is up to the task for now and the future.

    • There would still be the 2 site visits to install the 2 boxes (out and in) which is where a large part of the cost comes from. Digging trenches and the fibre bit are some of the least expensive as its done en mass essentially.

      • See this is where actual community engagement would have helped. Employ the resources of the locals who aren’t afraid to drill holes and mount boxes on walls, or plug cables in. I’m sure we could do stuff to help reduce visit costs then, even if digging holes isn’t as helpful as I imagined.

    • To be fair, it’s questionable how much this will improve with the different NBN speed tiers. We could by some miracle have universal FTTP tomorrow and we’d probably still sit at 25mbps average, so you can’t really compare Australia to those places where most internet connections are best speed available (but also highly contended and generally rubbish). The average speed on NBN will only go up gradually over time as people decide they need it.

      • If Australia had a full FTTP network tomorrow without artificial speed tiers below 100Mbit, then the average would be 100Mbit, because people couldn’t order any less ;-)

        • We’re already close to 40mbps in the Akamai data (thanks HFC). This is a feasible number for NBN plans alone!! A small minority (for now) get 100mbps plans, FTTP or otherwise.
          Now if you wiped out 25mbps plans… sure our numbers would shoot way up. But then NBN’s network itself would be underprovisioned, and the huge gulf between average and peak speeds (again, thanks HFC) shows too many Australians have a problem with congestion as it is.

          • “then NBN’s network itself would be underprovisioned”
            Rubbish. Assuming all premises were maxing out their connections, the way FTTP was being rolled out there’d be enough bandwidth per user for ~80Mbps.

        • What numbers was that estimate based on? With several nations in the world rolling out 1Gbps FTTP networks without speed tiers and Labor predicting 50% on fibre connected at 12Mbps well into the future (currently 79% at 25Mbps or slower) I would be curious to know.

          • Hotcakes, its the only way they can claim a negative. By changing the narrative from 50% on 12Mbit to 79% on 25/5 or less.

            I personally interpret the number to mean, less people on 12/1 than expected, more people on 25/5 or more than expected.

    • Considering that FTTN is only a small part of the build, the reason for that fall can squarely be blamed on Labor for designing a 1Gbps network and yet hobbling it with speed tiers so that currently 79% are connected at 25Mbps or slower (compared with Labor’s prediction of 50% on 12Mbps) giving an average of 34Mbps.

      The fall is more likely to come from other countries improving their infrastructure faster by building FTTP without speed tiers, rather than real world performance dropping in Australia. The reality is with speed tiers, no matter the speed of the underlying infrastructure only a small number (16%, down 3% in 12 months) are prepared to pay for speed, which means we should expect to see our rankings fall further.

      • “Considering that FTTN is only a small part of the build”

        A third is a small part of the build ey?

        • He likes making stuff up like that. It suits his “I want 1Gbps for free, for all” agenda…

      • Or is it the fact that the current government only requires the NBN to deliver an up to 25Mbps only.

  10. If Turncoat does take FTTdp to the election it’ll be ironic, he’ll be promising to fix his own mess!


    • LOL…

      Indeed, touche’.

      He’ll finally have that solution his faithful, perpetually contradictory apostles, have been asking the baddies for…

  11. Where does this leave the purchase of Telstra’s copper at vast expense in addition to the purchase of access to its pits? Is the copper between the distribution point and the wall of my house mine?

    Will there now be months of delay while that possibly ill considered transaction is adjusted? Or would Telstra keep the money and possibly re-sell the now redundant copper to some other unsuspecting sucker?

    • FTTdp still uses the copper network, just the last 30 or so meters between your house and wherever the distribution point is. It will also use the Telstra pits that gimpco are leasing.

      I expect that the rest of the copper network between the distribution point and the exchange will simply be ‘decommissioned’ (left in place). As it is now owned by the Australian taxpayers, Telstra cannot reuse or resell it, it simply ceases to be.

      As for months of delay, gimpco have indicated that they plan to slowly ramp up FTTdp as the preferred rollout technology where HFC or FTTN is not the ‘optimum’ solution. I would love to see a major change in the technology mix, however let us not forget that gimpco has most likely ordered a shite load of FTTN cabinets and have the back end, design and contractors all sorted for the FTTN/HFC rollout. They are not about to halt that, if for no reason other than it meant the government was wrong all along.

      As such, it will most likely be the solution that gimpco turns to once they have flushed the FTTN out of their system. It will also lead to the interesting byproduct that there will be three ‘generations’ of rollout. FTTP – HFC/FTTN – FTTdp. Or as I like to think of it, great – shite – less shite.

      • So instead of the original 3 NBN models, they now have 6 versions of MTM requiring ongoing support components & staff.
        Too many cooks?

  12. FTTdp seems like a good choice as it will certainly save on lengthy installation times and the upgrade could be entirely self service depending on how NBN handle the cut over which should only take 5 minutes. Interesting to note that FTTdp can offer a pass-through for PSTN. Whether they use this function would be interesting. At the end of the day they wouldn’t want to support both fibre and copper networks for too long.


  13. Budde maybe right but I just can’t see it happening, Turnbull would be saying FTTN was wrong and I can’t see his ego saying that, add least not to the electorate, maybe after if he won the election he would and then the pressure would be off him.
    Everyone has to ask themselves, do you want another 3 years of this FTTN bullshit government, I’m telling everyone I know to not vote for the Coalition. I even donated some money to Labor (that’s a first for me) because I have had enough of these clowns.

    • I agree with you, I think Turnbull will go to the election with no changes to the NBN plan and then if he wins, would change to FTTdp then by changing the SoE to allow it.

    • Turnbull would be saying FTTN was wrong and I can’t see his ego saying that

      I’m not so sure, he’s getting a lot of heat at the moment for adopting 95% of Abbott’s policies, and FttN was an Abbott government policy. You can see how touchy Malcolm is about this if you watched 7:30 ask him about it.

      Switching to Fttdp would be a step towards making it a Turnbull government policy, not an Abbott one.

      • “Switching to Fttdp would be a step towards making it a Turnbull government policy, not an Abbott one.”

        At this point, I think there are other policies he is likely to change than the NBN, the MSM doesn’t give a crap about the NBN and whether it is FTTP, FTTN, FTTdp, FTTBicycle or FTTCarrierPigeon.

        • A lot of the other policies, he’s locked in. Mostly locked in thanks to the support from the right side of his party. NBN is one area where he can make the change and not end up facing another challenge.

          For example, he’s made a big thing about now supporting the CEFC, but he’s ripped $1.3b out of ARENA. So he’s basically kept his support for climate change zero-sum.

          • I just think the only chance he is going to announce FTTdp before the election, is if Labor makes a big deal about it, or if Labor announces they will return to FTTP.

            Otherwise, I just don’t really see him caring. The general public at this point are just sick and tired of hearing about the NBN.

          • I doubt they are sick of it, as you pointed out in another post, MSM just doesn’t really cover it. It only ever gets brought up on sites like here, ZDNet, etc.

            But then if my non-tech wife is anything to go by, his innovation policy is in the same boat :o)

          • I say “sick of hearing about it” because if they weren’t sick of hearing about it, the MSM would still be talking about it.

            They’re out to sell newspapers and news in general, they will run with what people care about listening to. The fact that the MSM isn’t talking about the NBN is as much about their vested interests, as it is the general voting public in Australia being sick of hearing about it and not being willing to purchase news that has big swathes of it dedicated to the NBN.

  14. Only Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull can fix the mistakes of Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull

    • Didn’t you hear Turnbull doesn’t make mistakes only Abbott, Labor, the Greens and the independents make mistakes. O I forgot the Australian people for voting these clowns in, in the first place, curse you Rudd I was happy with Gillard she had more balls then all these so called men put together.
      Then again maybe Turnball doesn’t make mistakes because he doesn’t do anything.

  15. If we are moving to FTTdP I would love to see nbn give customers a choice during the planning phase to pay say $500 extra to get an fttp install – this would save the modem in the pit only being used for a very short time because someone chooses to upgrade to fttp shortly after and also make for a more efficient bulk install of fibre lead ins

    • “this would save the modem in the pit only being used”

      Not really, as far as I know, the mini-nodes put in the pit service a number of premises, so unless all the premises being served from that pit opt to upgrade to FTTP, it would still be placed in the pit.

  16. I don’t trust the Libs to do anything right. They ruined the NBN and are still pushing a far inferior product to the direct FTTH that Labor was installing.

  17. So what happens to the hundreds of thousands of Australians already who had to go to FTTN (forced on them with no say in this) ? No one is addressing that fact – are they left in a technology backwater permanently – when will the nodes be ripped up and replaced by Fibre to the Distribution Point?

    • I’m right with you in seeing that disaster, but there is no plan in existence for those things. There is not yet even a coherent plan for switching to FTTdp. But most likely, Telstra (naturally the future owner of the copper segment in the coming NBN privatisation) will be left to deal with areas locked in for FTTN.

      Which brings our attention to what Telstra’s likely plans are: Telstra has a long demonstrated history of sitting on its existing infrastructure sucking profit out of it like a fat lethargic piglet and holding back upgrades until forced by competition. But in the likely event of FTTN maintenance becoming too onerous and assuming that companies like TPG continue to go from strength to strength, Telstra will overbuild. By that point, we’re likely to see FTTP as the economical option. But those events are many years away.

      This is what happens when one major party wants one ‘socialist’ ubiquitous wholesale provider and the other wants corporations to build, own and operate networks. They are such radically differing aims for two major parties in the same country that we get a schemozzle with no effective solution, no certainty or satisfaction, a constantly frustrated telecommunications sector and ultimately second-rate services.

    • So what happens to the hundreds of thousands of Australians already who had to go to FTTN (forced on them with no say in this) ?

      Under the MtM they stay that way until they decide to upgrade the FttN network (maybe around 2025-2030?). Not sure what the ALP policy is on it, they haven’t released it yet.

  18. “So what happens to the hundreds of thousands of Australians already who had to go to FTTN (forced on them with no say in this)”

    They get to choose who to vote for in the next election, if they want this mess fixed in less than a generation.

    If they vote LNP, they lose the right to complain at a later date.

    • Pretty well. But the ALP haven’t released their policy yet, and they’ve only said they’ll use “more” fibre, so we’ll have to wait to see how they define “more” to see if it’ll help those of FttN.

      • Making the arrogant ‘ I know what’s best for you’ assumption on behalf of those on FTTN that they need help.

        • Making the arrogant ‘ I know what’s best for you’ assumption

          As you do it all the time, I bow to your superior knowledge in that area ;o)

        • @ alain/Trump supporter…

          Making the arrogant ‘ I know what’s best for you’ assumption by saying FTTN is good enough for everyone are you?

          Oh no wait, after years of FTTN/FRAUDBAND chest beating, you have already shifted to FttDp haven’t you?

          Or have you?

          Here’s your description again… feel free to change Donald Trump for FRAUDBAND/Nodafail™ …

          “One of the most perplexing parts of the Donald Trump experience is that his fans don’t seem to believe in anything. They hold no principles they won’t instantly abandon on a whim; they never practice what they preach, and what they preach has absolutely no relation to reality.”

          You’re welcome.

  19. This is great news. We will have a slightly faster unreliable high maintainence network. Only a few more upgrades and it will almost be able to deliver what can currently be delivered via FTTP. (excluding multiple services, reliability, upgradability and lower cost)

    Of course Turnbull will make a statement about this. Anything to disract from the current total failure of his fully costed, fully planned, fasta, quicka, soona, mtm that will deliver 25mbps in 2016.

    This is just a distraction, a political red herring.

  20. What makes you think that Turnbull or Shorten for that matter announcing FTTdP or not announcing FTTdp in their pre election NBN policy will have any effect whatever on their chances of winning Government?

    • Devoid can you be so kind to remind us how the current winning policy has turned out lol

      • Jason K (Rizz),

        lol, it won them Government in 2013? lol

        Of course if the Coalition win again later this year it won’t have anything to do with NBN policy, but it definitely will if they lose.

        • Whether they win or lose this year the NBN won’t be an issue because the MSM isn’t making it one.

        • NBN Policy??
          Reality just in case you hadn’t noticed, the Coalition doesn’t have a National Broadband Network Policy. Just a cobbled together 6 tier MTM lottery of divergent technologies where your location will determine the type, speed limits & performance available.

        • Lol indeed.

          Ask Peter Reith if it MIGHT be so… and then ignore the clear intent of his answer completely and every other word in amongst thousands of words “except the word MIGHT, to then argue childishly and ridiculously over MIGHT”.

          Q. Is anyone that ridiculous and lame enough to actually do that?

          A. Yes

          You’re welcome

    • I’m actually with you on this point, I don’t really think the NBN is going to be anywhere close to being influential on this election. Mostly because the MSM doesn’t care anymore, thus the majority of the country doesn’t care because the MSM isn’t making it an issue.

      We all exist in a bubble here on tech sites, and what we care about, general voting Australians don’t give a toss.

    • @ alain

      Hellooo McFly (*taps on skull*)

      How long have you been coming here (to amuse us all)? 6 years or so?

      Yet you still, being completely subservient and cyclopic, can’t quite grasp the concept can you?

      NEWSFLASH: we are here to discuss comms and technology advantages and disadvantages, NOT the chances of Shorten or Turnbull winning government, FFS.

      Q. Got it now?

      A. No

      I thought not…

      Unbelievable… you’re welcome.

  21. Is this for real or just an early start to April Fools pranks?
    Email from Iinet this morning:
    As of April 1 nbn™ will implement a $300 charge for all connections made in areas they have identified as within the boundary of a new development. The decision was made to shift the cost of infrastructure onto the “parties that use or benefit from them”. The charge is a partial recovery cost for nbn™ for providing telecommunications infrastructure in new development areas. – See more at: http://blog.iinet.net.au/nbn-new-development-charge/#sthash.jlaK79Ey.dpuf

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