Fifield refuses to accept NBN Co’s own evidence of FTTN delays


news Communications Minister Mitch Fifield has repeatedly refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of evidence contained in leaked internal documentation, in which the NBN company’s chief network engineering explicitly states that its Fibre to the Node rollout is categorically behind target.

Earlier this week, Delimiter and a number of other media outlets published an internal NBN company document, entitled ‘Scale the Deployment Program: FTTx Design and Construction’. The document was authored by the NBN company’s chief network engineering officer Peter Ryan.

The document notes that the NBN company had at 19 February this year only successfully completed construction of its Fibre to the Node network to some 29,005 premises — far short of its target of 94,273 for that date. The report pins much of the delays on issues with electricity companies, which appear to be having problems getting power to the neighbourhood ‘nodes’ used in a FTTN rollout.

In the document, Ryan explicitly states: “Despite Design Commenced remaining above budget, all other significant milestones of FTTN continue to remain behind target.”

Yesterday afternoon, Fifield was asked about the issue by ABC Radio journalist Rafael Epstein on his Drive program. The transcript of the interview is available online.

“On the NBN it appears their own internal targets aren’t being met,” said Epstein. “That seems very clear from the document, maybe they will get over their inability to meet their own targets in the future. But would you concede that with the documents leaked in the last few days, they are not reaching their own targets?”

In response, and despite the fact of Ryan’s comments in the NBN company’s documentation, Fifield said he “wouldn’t” accept the FTTN delays as documented by the engineer.

“No I wouldn’t,” he said. “I mean, obviously it’s not my job to validate or otherwise, the bona fides of particular alleged leaked document.”

“But if I can make the general point that it’s very easy to pedal a particular document out of context. There are something of the order of 14 steps in the NBN design and construction process when it comes to fibre to the node. That alleged document related to particular steps in the process.”

Fifield said if commentators were to look at the “facts”, they would show that the NBN company itself rejected the claim that it was at risk of not meeting its targets.

“In fact, they’ve met or exceeded every key target for 6 quarters in a row. The company is on track to meet or exceed its full year target on 2.6 million homes read for service which is great. They’re on track to meet their target on 1 million homes, this financial year, using the network. So things are tracking very well,” he said.

However, it appears that Epstein did not accept Fifield’s arguments. The ABC journalist again referred to the evidence contained in Ryan’s document.

“… that document does say that the number of premises that should have been approved at the date of the report was less than half,” Epstein said. “So about 1.4 million premises should have been approved. Only 660,000 were, I mean that’s, if there not meeting their internal targets isn’t that something the Government should acknowledge?”

However, Fifield again referred to the NBN company’s public insistence that it was on track to meet its targets.

” There are currently more homes under construction at the moment than is required for nbn to hit their full year targets,” he said.

“What matters is, can nbn hit their annual targets. And you know one of the best predictors of future behaviour is past behaviour. Nbn, they’ve met or exceeded every key target for 6 quarters in a row. As I say, best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. When our predecessors were in office, they’d only met 15 per cent of their construction target. So the NBN record to date under us is very good. NBN is on track to meet its targets this year.”

What we are seeing here is quite extraordinary.

A document has been leaked from within the NBN company.

That document was authored by the engineer in charge of the NBN company’s network rollout.

It categorically states that the Fibre to the Node component of the rollout is behind its targets on almost every measure.

And yet … confronted with this evidence, our Communications Minister completely rejects the evidence being put in front of him with respect to the rollout of the Coalition’s Fibre to the Node network.

This kind of reaction is why I wrote yesterday that there is “lying” going on with respect to the rollout of the Coalition’s Multi-Technology Mix approach to the National Broadband Network.

It is almost at the point where it was when, as Communications Minister, Stephen Conroy refused to admit any issues with Labor’s Internet filter policy. The level of denialism is approaching farce, as it did during the Internet filter debacle.

In all fairness, of course, Fifield’s statements are, of course, based on the NBN company’s own denial of the allegations contained in leaked documents this week. To this extent you can understand his comments. Of course, the NBN company’s own denial of its own leaked document is farcical as well … if it will not take responsibility for documents patently written by its own senior executives, what will it take responsibility for?

It’s hard to imagine the company issuing this kind of denial under its previous management led by founding chief executive Mike Quigley.

How much evidence will it take before senior Government figures such as Fifield are forced to admit in public that there are issues with the FTTN component of the NBN? I guess we’ll find out over the next few months. I very much suspect this issue is not going to go away.

Image credit: Parliamentary Broadcasting


  1. I just fail to understand how legally a GBE and a Minister can blatantly lie about something in public and not face any legal repercussions?

    We really need a Federal ICAC or something because they just keep doing it and imo its blatant corruption!

    • Well then talk to your Federal Labor and Coalition members. They have shot down several bills tabled by the Greens that would have introduced a corruption watchdog

      • I’ve been having regular conversations with my local Liberal MP and his staff, Tony Smith (House Speaker & member for Casey) and his staff are actually pretty decent to deal with and sympathetic. The problem started when my concerns were referred to the minister for Misinformation (I was advised my technical specialist knowledge was too far above their comprehension levels), his office just gave me a BS boiler plate reply.. cheapa, fasta, all labors fault etc etc.

        • I was talking about the ICAC bit… not the rest of the mess… :-)

          I know that won’t go anywhere either… Just highlighting that both sides are dodgy.

        • I’ve tried a couple of times, for various things, with Ciobo, but he just went straight to the “BS boiler plate reply” off the bat. I haven’t bothered with him since.

    • We need an RC at the next change of Gov for sure!

      The only issue with getting a Federal ICAC is, the ALP wont support one either, we’d need an ALP-Green coalition gov to get one and the Greens would need to make it a condition of them forming gov with the ALP.

      • Assuming the Greens are in a position that they are needed to help the ALP get over the line because of a hung Parliament, as in a repeat of 2010, that’s also assuming all Greens hold their seats.

        • I wouldn’t be surprised if we got something similar to 2010. There was a big rejection of Labor at that point, but very little of that flowed to the Coalition, Greens and indies got a big boost.

          Best thing to happen imo. Both the Greens and the independents introduced some real changes that weren’t focused either in the Unions or in the Big corporates, but more around the people. And despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth, the Greens economic policies are a damn sight more forward thinking than the coalition who can’t get out of the hole digging business.

    • They are just allowed to report what the politicians say. Comparing anything to reality makes a reporter biased. Lucky Renai isn’t with the ABC.

  2. Just proves they are all the same, it’s not just those MTM lunatics who comment here who refuse to accept facts….

  3. “Ventriloquism, or ventriloquy, is an act of stagecraft in which a person (a ventriloquist) changes his or her voice so that it appears that the voice is coming from elsewhere, usually a puppeteered “dummy”.

    Anyone else get the feeling Mal has his fist rammed up Fifields arse? Much the same way Rupert has his fist rammed up Mals arse..


  4. Oh come on Renai… he’s obviously correct!

    He’s not an engineer so he can’t confirm the contents of the report!

    But hey our qualified team of NBNco spin doctors have done their homework and disregarded everything in there and everything is A-Ok!

    This is beginning to sound like an Abbott sound byte of “I’m not a Tech-head!”

    • Or it could be possible that Mitch is telling the NBN board to lie to him… and so the circle of misinformation rolls on…

  5. They’re probably planning on declaring black is white until after the election. Then, if they win, there will be another delay and hit to nbns budget which will, once again, somehow be all Labors fault. If they lose, then there will be another delay and hit to nbns budget which will definitely be all Labors fault.

    But hey, maybe Fifield is right and they’ll have it all fixed in a jiffy so it has no impact on the rollout schedule. Are any of the betting agencies taking bets on this stuff ?

    I’d like to see half of federal politicians salary make conditional on them meeting their own targets. That way we would know which of the things they say are things that they actually mean.

  6. “It [leaked document] categorically states that the Fibre to the Node component of the rollout is behind its targets on almost every measure.”

    No it states the scale up program is behind schedule (purpose of the document).

    “It’s hard to imagine the company issuing this kind of denial under its previous management led by founding chief executive Mike Quigley.”

    You’re joking; on time and on budget the mantra until his departure. Both untrue; obvious with the quarterly updates and ARs. Proven by his own figures after departure.

    We should get to the bottom of the FTTN performance; billions of taxpayers money at risk. However continued unsupported claims don’t help.

    FTTN deployment isn’t difficult, not here or any of the dozens of markets where the technology has been deployed. If NBNCo can’t deliver it it’ll be a new low (amongst many) for this policy folly.

    • “on time and on budget the mantra until his departure”

      Ummm … that’s not true Richard. You can stop trying to rewrite history. On budget .. yep. On time … no … he acknowledged that publicly.

      “Proven by his own figures after departure.”

      You still trying to fingerpaint with numbers here by trying to link Quigley’s analysis of the current state with his previous performance? When he uses numbers published after he left? Oh my.

      ” If NBNCo can’t deliver it it’ll be a new low (amongst many) for this policy folly”

      Yeah … I’m not sure how you can blame Quigley or Labor for that one … however you do keep trying.

    • Likewise, FTTH deployment isn’t difficult, not here or any of the dozens of markets where the technology has been deployed.
      It’s not question of “can nbn deliver”, it’s a question of how long it will take them to sort out the issues so that they can increase the build rate, and how much it will cost.

        • Slow and expensive and built to last longer in regards to scale.

          Something people are often easy to forget or ignore.

          I’m not going to get involved in analogies suffice to say you get what you pay for.

          • With regard to the MTM, it looks like we’re getting a lot less than what we paid for.
            $50+ billion and yet many people will only get a modest upgrade to what they have now.

          • @Reality: and MTM sure as heck isn’t “cheaper” either.. at the very least 40b at this point and it’s not finishing “faster” either

            So exactly what did we get out of MTM?

          • “It’s not $50 + billion”

            There is no way you can know that…$50+ Billion is well within the current range of possibilities…

          • $50+ billion and yet many people will only get a modest upgrade to what they have now.

            Apparently, for some, it’s actually a downgrade.

          • compared to the $43b for FTTP.


            A 4 year delay,


            compared to the 2 year delay for FTTP.

            Wrong, and bingo you get the FTTP cheer squad award of the month.

          • “compared to the $43b for FTTP.”
            On track give or take a couple of billion (<1%) given the most recent trustworthy figures, or $64b if you believe the Coalition made up fairy figures, still less than what the Liberals have inflicted on us, that being the FTTP costs listed in CP16 as you quote so fondly.

            "A 4 year delay,"
            2020 – 2016. Use a calculator if you must.

            "compared to the 2 year delay for FTTP."
            [Citation Needed] otherwise.

            Simply saying so does not make your fallacies come true.

        • “FTTH is slow and expensive. Entering premises is expense; time and money.”

          I know when I’m planning out national infrastructure for the next few decades, I also prefer quick and cheap… I mean, why not? What’s the worst that could happen.

        • “FTTH is slow and expensive. ”

          Apparently so is the MTM (at least by your definition).

        • Slow is questionable. 1 year more than the current MTM solution, but for a substantially better result.

    • As you said Richard no such thing as a ramp up so is this the blistering fast rollout of FTTN you where talking about.

      • Compared to the failed Labor construction model FTTP rollout, anything is ‘blistering’.

        • That failed rollout construction model is still used now lol so 30k nodes since sept is blistering.

          So they have done 30k nodes in 7 months and a target of 500k in another 5 months. Looks like they are on track

        • I do find it bemusing when people consider the equivalent of starting to dig a hole and being told “nope! pack up! we got a new boss now” as a “failed roll out”.

          How can you say something has “failed” if you’ve barely started the work?

          • So after two terms of Labor Government you say they had barely started the work, then you ask what has the MtM done for us in a bit over two years?


          • @Reality: So your telling me that Labor went and started digging everything the moment they got into power after Rudd got in?

            Again when did Labor actually *start* digging and “rolling out”? Last time I checked a project isn’t actually “started” until people get down and digging after a “planning phase”. Planning which was delayed by many other factors.

            Oh and last time I checked it was about 1 and third term since Rudd got royally kicked.. but that would be semantics

            Meanwhile MTM had the holes dug and ready for them and what have THEY done w/ the none FTTP bit?

          • Ahh Reality. Good to see you are forgetting all the Backhaul construction that occurred during those two terms. Or the fact that the majority of the delay was caused by Telstra.

        • “Compared to the failed Labor construction model”

          I think you mean untested, not failed. It was abandoned before it really got started due to political hay-making…

        • Oh what like the failed HFC you told us about previously?


          No we aren’t laughing with you…

          You’re welcome

        • “25 megabits to every household in australia by 2016.”

          How are they going on that count Reality?


    “PETER RYAN: This report that is appearing in Fairfax newspapers is marked “commercial in confidence” and for “official use only” so is this a type of progress report that the NBN would have commissioned?

    STEPHEN RUE: That’s a standard marking that we put on all our reports.”

    Quoting Renai “it will not take responsibility for documents patently written by its own senior executives” – i think the above makes it clear they are trying to, at one and the same time, acknowledge authorship of the document (thats a standard marking for our documents) while also denying the content of their own document.

    As you say, the level of denialism is reaching farce here. id say more correctly, has reached…. but why do i get the feeling we are not yet reached its zenith?

    btw count me in as also calling for an ICAC.

    • So they label reports “commercial in confidence” even if they’re not? Lovely.

      Why not label them “fairies at the bottom of the garden”!

      • If it’s potentially embarrassing, then it’s secret. Everything is potentially embarrassing, so everything is secret. It would be embarrassing to say “it’s a secret because it’s embarrassing” so they say it’s “commercial in confidence”.

    • Or the same line over and over again “exceeded every target for the past six quarters in a row.”

      But then at least half those targets have been redacted so who knows if they are really hitting the target or just changing to goal post. Considering the change 2 times for the target of the end of this year.

      • They have been looking how the Labor NBN Co did it, they at least learnt something from that era.

        • Oh now you really are being disingenuous Reality.

          You know very well that NBN Co under Labor was much more forthcoming with information than NBN under the Coalition has ever been.

        • I agree alain…

          The Coalition looked at the 2007 era plan (that the last mob rightly dumped after expert advice) which the Coalition themselves dubbed fraudband and now they chose and supply us with, wait for it…

          Fraudband… brilliant tactics.

          Yes the current government learned and each day they are learning more and more, just how shitty fraudband is, how wrong they were/are to roll it out and as a real hit to those fragile “adult egos” just how right the others actually were…

          It’s known as learning the hard way and unfortunately everyone in Australia (except the minions, who would accept pigeons and smoke signals from their “superiors”) are all having to learn the hard way, along with these fucking morons, rolling out..

          …go on say it, I’ll give you a hint starts with F and ends with RAUDBAND.. still not sure? No, I thought not.

          You’re welcome

    • As you say, the level of denialism is reaching farce here.

      I think a case could be made that the LNP actually reached peak farce with the “Children Overboard” scam, they’ve just been tweaking around with it ever since. it’s like they learnt that if they just say “stuff” enough and for long periods, enough folks believe it that reality doesn’t matter.

  8. Perhaps we should put the questions more simply, in a way the minister can understand: WHERE’S MY FREAKING INTERNET CONNECTION WE ALL PAID FOR AND YOU PROMISED US?

  9. I’m sorry, but as a friend of mine once said:

    “If you don’t want me to proof-read something, don’t show it to me.”

    A foot-operated document, Renai? Really? ;)

    “… very easy to PEDAL a particular document …”

  10. You can compare and contrast Fifield to Conroy but there is a distinction to be made.

    The internet filter was a hypothetical at the time even if there was denial by S.Conroy because it was not affecting anything real world (yet) it can still be put down to skepticism of the highest degree. Furthermore that plan was ditched upon further industry consultation (IIRC).

    Now the irony being of course we have metadata retention which is even more totalitarian and NSA-like in nature then the filter was.

    In contrast FTTN has already been adopted as policy driving actual implementations of broadband that has real world ramifications. Denying hard evidence of things that are happening vs contemplating what would happen (in the case of an internet filter) are two vastly different things and the situation is far more serious in the former case because it shows a lack of concern.

  11. So 800K activated premises as of 19 Feb 2016, 736K activated premises as of Dec 2015?
    I guess the election year messaging is to talk about on track for 2020, ? Not that the mob on the other side of the aisle would have done much till beyond 2023.
    Oh dear, LTSS isn’t up yet (and even then slated for 25/ 5 Mbps with 150 GB quota, whilst Inmarsat is up to 50 Mbps, and Winds of Japan has shown 155/ 6 Mbps, that was over 60 cm dishes.
    Fixed terrestrial wireless using 4G only does 50/ 5 to 20 Mbps, whereas commercial 4G has shown 800 Mbps.
    HFC and DOCSIS 3.1 and Gbps, nothing available yet.
    FTTP largely shared 2.5GPON (though I did note Skymesh having 100/ 100 Mbps), rather than direct or 10G NG PON2.
    Lotsa questions over FTTx/ VDSL2. May be nbn is working up doing more FTTDp/ G.Fast instead?

    • “Maybe be nbn is working up doing more FTTDp/ G.Fast instead?”
      Which is another delay and additional cost. $56b and rising.

      • Clearly nbn is still a mess (only 736K activated premises to Dec 2015, double that in premises passed when there are between 12.3M and 13.2M premises to do, changing dates, changing $), pollyTICs really stuffed up the transition from copper.
        It should have been on Infrastructure Australia’s list, bi-partisan and all that. The only things that seem to be bi-partisan in Versailles on Lake Blwxyz Griffin seem to be entitlements, constitutional change, and dumb wars on drugs or terror.
        How not to advance Australia, fair.
        It’d be better if LTSS were bundled with Aussat of SingTel Optus or a competitor.
        Fixed terrestrial wireless (Ericsson) to a competitor of Telstra.
        HFC can go to FoxTel?
        Nbn equivalent networks already have to do wholesale. (I note TPG Wondercom FTTB/ VDSL at 50 to 100/ 20 Mbps seems $20 to $30 per month cheaper than any nbn based service providers.)
        That’d leave copper/ fibre with nbn. Subsequently ask for proposals from interested parties, like across the ditch.
        The regulator can set minimum service standards and maximum prices, be it wholesale or retail.

        Let’s see if upcoming senate hearings take less note of what happens on the funny island off the coast of Europe, and more as to approaches followed in Canada or across the ditch (CFH/ Telecom/ Chorus/ etc vs nbn with contractors and tech vendors).
        New Zealand apparently is trending to $3200 per premise for 80% of population, and is more of a PPP.
        Australia’s 93% wired (a third of HFC at $? per premise, a fifth FTTP at $4xxx per premise (I note Skymesh offers 100/ 100 Mbps), rest FTTx at $1600 per premise) and about 7% wireless. Multiple truck rolls and all.
        PollyTICs should have paid more attention to OECD advise for regulatory reform, competition for infrastructure (especially for metro, like copper, HFC, fibre and wireless, subsidy for beyond regional) and services, besides neutrality of technology.

        My home in the ‘burbs 30 km from Sydney can only get HFC (100/ 2 Mbps) and DSL, my old home in the ‘burbs 30 km from Amsterdam can get a choice of HFC (250 Mbps) or fibre (500/ 500 Mbps) …

      • Indeed but a live network trial, various people at Telstra Exchange eg are on record saying wired and wireless co-exist, and will.
        Indeed I often use Telstra Air Wi-Fi when out and about, rather than 4G or crappy cafe Wi-Fi.
        Moreover the 4G various category x devices might be rated for say cat 11 at 600 Mbps or something, the carrier fine print usually seems to translate that to about a quarter that in terms of user throughput, subject to … (Shared network and all that, then again 2.5GPON FTTP with 24 to 32 premises behind the splitter would also suggest only some could get 1000/ 400 Mbps.)
        SingTel Optus has demo-ed 4.5G 1.4+ Gbps.
        Given how three quarters of nbn active connections so far are on 25/ 5 Mbps, it would seem that if all you do is browsing, email and some streaming (Netflix SD/ 720 needs something like 1.5 Mbps) that’d be okay over wireless.
        Included quotas are of course another matter, but I did see SingTel Optus having a transportable 4G plan with 50 GB per month!
        And there is their Vividwireless.

        • Well is your using fixed line over 4G which is according to your fist statement is faster than the air wifi you are using. Or are you doing using Telstra air because of the data limits on 4G.

          Average is FTTP is 26 with6 spare on 2.5Gbps. Yes they would have trouble getting 1Gbps. But then the current design but easy upgrade would all be needed. But that same hard limit can be said for FTTN of on 2Gbps to the 192 or what ever figure NBN going to use per node.

          Optus 50G is a sign they are taking Telstra on in the mobile domain. But again the speed depends on the amount or people on the tower.

          Yes Mathew argument of people only picking 25Mbps. The problem that’s what they are picking now and the NBN which is only required to deliver that speed still won’t be completed for another 5 years. Where those countries that have already had those speeds are deploying faster speeds.

  12. Plausible deniability. NBN do not tell the minister they are behind and he does not ask. He probably has not asked the NBN if the document is real and they have not told him. Politicians can get away with almost anything using this method.

    Plus we are in an election year, so get ready for outright lies, I mean promises, as we get closer to the election.

    • Don’t forget they’re conservatives, if something is “working”, they’ll stick with it, even if it is only just working.

  13. Not authored by Peter Ryan – he is the executive sponsor.

    Interestingly the EGM of planning (one of his DRs) got the chop this week.

  14. What’s with Fifield, Turnbull and Abbott, are they that stupid to think that we will keep swallowing their dishonesty and total lack of respect towards the Australian public. 2 polls now and they are both 50/50

  15. I’ve been following Delimiter for some time now , and nice work Renai!

    On another note @Richard all your comments are coalition supported so please stop trying so hard to make it otherwise.

    Any tech savvy guy would know that coalition MTM version is a piece of garbage!!

    And by the way I’m not supporter of any party in fact my family and including me used to vote LNP , and yes I’m a fiber lover cause that’s the logical thing to support , and don’t try to make it about costs again and etc… It’s obvious if Australia continue to rollout MTM we are doomed

    • On another note @Richard all your comments are coalition supported so please stop trying so hard to make it otherwise.

      I used to wonder if him and Reality were actually paid to do it, but now I’m pretty sure they do it just because they’re LNP fanbois :o)

    • I would disagree… having Richard and Reality around has been very useful…

      If only as a reminder not to be complacent against any form of political spin =P


    “… new “type-3” system or “MT-LFN” or multi-technology local fibre network, which uses cutting-edge, thinner optical fibres combined with flexible joints and other improvements.”
    Let’s see if this is just for FTTx or also for HFC overbuild.

    Given how from 2007 federal election to Dec 2015, nbn/ NBN has only activated 736K premises, it is good to see that evaluations, trials, pilot ARE being done by nbn.

    • Considering NBN didn’t start until 2011.

      But then the NBN also claimed the Melton trials didn’t exist either

      • Prior to the 2007 federal election HoWARd went with Opel Networks’ DSL/ WiMAX of 2007.
        Never sorted the privatisation of Telecom/ OTC with copper, HFC, fibre, wireless from 1997, let alone the offloading of Aussat onto a then start-up Optus in 1991.

        KRudd7x7 instead put up NBN as policy, then took to 2011 to get deals with SingTel Optus or Telstra.
        It seems there have been three iterations so far of nbn/ NBN.
        FTTN mk1 of 2007.
        FTTP mk2 of 2009, Godzilla-ed to an uncool billion dollars as an initiative larger than the market cap of Telstra at the time.
        MTM mk3 of 2013.

        • Yes the Howard’s broadband to the bush which Telstra tried to sue Opel for an non compliant bid but was more to stop the rollout.

          Really about 4.
          2007 FTTN which the opposition called fraudband
          2011 FTTP
          2013 FTTN by the same group that called it fraudband.
          2013 MTM still doing FTTN by the same group that called it fraudband.

        • Opel was a farce, I worked for a an ISP with a large WiMax network and there’s no way in hell the Opel plans would have delivered on the claims made. Bit like MtM really…

    • smh report quotes Fifield as FTTP costing $4400, FTTN $2300.
      Quotes leaked doc saying they can reduce FTTP costs by $600.
      Other recent leak claim FTTN is up $200.
      So difference is ($4400 – $600) – ($2300 + $200) = $1300.
      If you borrow $1300 at commercial rates (let alone government bond rates), you could make the repayments out of the lower operating and maintenance costs.

      (And $4400 – $600 = $3800 is still substantially higher than costs claimed in comparable situations overseas, e.g. NZ or Canada)

      • Anybody seen any recent Mbps/ $ or GB/ $ international benchmarks ultimately covering capex and opex recently for wired, be it copper, HFC, FTTB, FTTN, FTTP (GPON 10G NG PON2)?

        “Substantially higher”, across the ditch seems to be trending for $3200 i/c 80% of premises FTTP?

        • NZ rollout, 80% to the population of Melbourne to the area size of Victoria, just like here.

          You want comparisons of FTTP and FTTN, from one of the worlds largest telco’s rolling out both.

          Mr Patterson said the mixed-technology rollout of superfast broadband in Britain had allowed the company in five years to pass 85 per cent of the population of which 19 per cent had now signed up services with BT.

          “We have invested £3 billion ($5.9bn) but to do FTTH (fibre-to-the-home) it would have been ten times that and the speed of deployment would have been at 10 per cent at this point,” Mr Patterson said. “The case for us to pay back on FTTH was simply not there,

          • So Reality 30k connected in 7 months I that same time frame BT would have had over 1m connected.

          • WGAF…?

            It is supposed to be faster and cheaper, FFS.. In fact it was supposed to be 1/3 of the cost of FttP and completed by this year…

            These were the trade offs for being grossly inferior, with much greater OPEX expenses, less ROI, needing replacment sooner rather than later, giving Australian’s a retrograde rather than a network for the future.

            Unfortunately however, the part you parrots can’t quite grasp, as is the case with MTM daily, it is NOT proving to be cheaper nor faster (or at least not cheaper or faster enough to warrant the above trade offs).

            Enter your typical childish twaddle………… here, go.

            You’re welcome

          • Actually our population density is highest around Metropolitan areas, so yes as far as the urban rollouts are concerned, we are very comparable.

            The Backhaul on the other hand… that’s a different story.

          • Actually our population density is highest around Metropolitan areas, so yes as far as the urban rollouts are concerned, we are very comparable.

            I don’t agree (that we are comparable with the UK), but I’ll let you make your own mind up about that:

            Population – 4,840,600
            Density – 380/km2

            Population – 4,440,000
            Density – 430/km2

            Population – 520,215
            Density – 4,349/km2

            Population – 1,101,360
            Density – 4,102/km2

            Population – 8,538,689
            Density – 5,432/km2

          • Oh, sorry mate, I thought you were replying to Realty’s BT stuff ;o)

            Just to keep it Apples to Apples:

            Density – 900/km2

            Density – 260/km2

            So yeah, a lot more similar than the UK :o)

        • Which has nothing whatever to what BT said, if FTTP is so cost effective why are they rolling out FTTN?

          Apparently Australia is different than anywhere else in the world, here rolling out all new infrastructure and overbuilding to inside the residence is cheaper and faster than using existing infrastructure that is already inside the residence and connected out into the street to the pillar which is then connected to a FTTN cabinet.

          Why this strange infrastructure phenomenon exists here and only here is never ever explained.

          • Reality can you please explain why Australia is so different than everywhere else with rolling out “cheaper” “faster” FTTN to go from a fully costed $29B 2016 to an up to $56B 2020. 30k FTTN connected in 7 months must be a record somewhere. BT would have had over a 1m by then.

          • Tell us about the B in cBa…

            Then tell us about fraudband and failed HFC…

            You’re welcome

          • Spoon feed time for the alain child again…

            You keep asking “why are we different”… and because the factual answer doesn’t fit your cyclopic narrative, you keep asking…

            Newsflash, the answer doesn’t change because you are ill-equipped to comprehend and/or accept the answer…

            So, A G A I N for A L A I N…

            We are different, because we do not have the incumbent Telco who owns the copper rolling out copper based FttN – i.e. trying to wring every last cent of profit from their obsolete network.

            DO YOU UNDERSTAND, this time?

            No, I thought not…

            So as you bluntly refuse to admit it, it just demonstrates how dishonest, subservient or stupid you must be…

            You’re welcome…

          • Why this strange infrastructure phenomenon exists here and only here is never ever explained.

            We’ll, as Woolfe pointed out, we have a very similar urban density to NZ which is rolling out FttN…oh, wait, no they aren’t…um, whatever, they’re rolling out Fttsomething….yeah, that’s it…

          • Tell us about the B in cBa…

            Exactly Rizz, this is where the LibTrolls always head the the “numberz”…they honestly can not explain the benefits beyond “doing it this way will save XYZ”…

          • Fizz,

            Here’s what BT said…

            That’s not what BT said, that’s what someone who used to work there said, irrelevant.

            My link was current comment from the current BT CEO.

          • Fizz,

            We are different, because we do not have the incumbent Telco who owns the copper rolling out copper based FttN – i.e. trying to wring every last cent of profit from their obsolete network.

            We are not different, the NBN Co (the new incumbent) owns the copper, so wringing out every last cent of profit from it is the smart and responsible thing to do for the taxpayer, thanks for reinforcing that we are closer to the BT FTTN model after all.

            oops moment again.

          • Here is more relevant comment from BT.

            Opeanreach’s director of network investment, Mike Galvin, said that BT would not have been able to justify the cost of deploying fibre to the premises across the UK.

            “Fibre to the cabinet is considerably cheaper. It varies from site to site, but in brownfields, it is typically four times cheaper, maybe even more,” he said.

            “We would not have a business case for doing that if we were doing fibre to the premises, simply because of the additional cost. Even as it is, it is a long-term investment with payback in the mid teens of years.


          • @ Bruce/Reality/alain/child,

            Settle down and tell us again how FTTP will be successful because its a monopoly… then in the next breath tell us how it will fail like HFC before it did, then tell us how we should reuse the wonderful (failed) HFC as you have since then… just to give everyone a clear indication of what a complete hypocrite we are dealing with here…

            And never forget, before roads there were, no roads ROFL…

            Keep up the great work, whilst completely humiliating yourself, the Coalition and NBN™, you are keeping us all guffawing at your complete subservience and/or stupidity

            You”re welcome

      • “$4400 – $600 = $3800 is still substantially higher than costs claimed in comparable situations overseas”

        My guess is that it’s because they are now adding the cost of reversing FTTN installs and starting FTTP from scratch once again. I think what it shows is the price we will be forced to pay regardless as FTTN proves to be inadequate for our needs…
        Predictably, there is no breakdown of that estimate as they once again cloud it in CinC redaction, so we can not tell the veracity of the claim.

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