The election is over, and Fibre to the Node is here to stay

By
Renai LeMay
-
237

news Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has declared victory in the hard-fought Federal Election, in a move that ensures that the controversial Fibre to the Node technology which Turnbull personally favours is here to stay as a core part of the National Broadband Network.

Over the weekend, Opposition Leader Bill Shorten rang Turnbull to concede defeat in the election, with the prolonged counting process after the poll a week ago finally making clear that the Coalition would continue to hold the reins of power in the Federal Government.

From here, Turnbull is set to lead either a majority or minority Coalition Government, ensuring that the Member for Wentworth will retain the confidence of the Parliament as Prime Minister.

The move has several strong and immediate implications for the National Broadband Network.

Firstly, the election victory will ensure that the Coalition’s Multi-Technology Mix approach to the National Broadband Network will remain.

During the election campaign, Labor adopted the HFC cable aspect of the Coalition’s MTM vision, but stated that it would not proceed with deploying the vast majority of Fibre to the Node connections which the Coalition plans to reach about a third of Australian premises over the next half-decade.

Turnbull’s victory means that those FTTN connections will proceed. The Coalition did not, as some had predicted, launch a revised NBN policy during the election.

It does not appear that any of the crossbenchers upon whom Turnbull may be forced to rely on for support in the new Parliament — Bob Katter, Cathie McGowan, Andrew Wilkie or Nick Xenophon Team MP Rebekha Sharkie — have formed a strong enough view of the NBN that they would make blocking FTTN part of their conditions for supporting a Coalition Government.

The two former independent MPs who contested the election with a strong view on the NBN — Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott — did not successfully enter Parliament.

The introduction of FTTN into the NBN has been extremely widely criticised, and was seen as an influential issue during the election campaign. It appears likely that the issue had a strong impact on a number of electorates, especially in Tasmania, where the Coalition lost all of its sitting MPs to Labor.

Labor made the NBN issue a centrepiece of its campaign.

However, ultimately the issue was not significant enough to decide the election as a whole.

The inclusion of FTTN into the NBN’s rollout plan means that those areas of Australia who are slated to receive FTTN will likely require further updates to FTTP, during the period from 2020 to 2030.

Turnbull’s election victory also has other implications for the NBN.

From today, the NBN company is no longer to be subject to the Caretaker provisions, meaning that its hands have been freed to discuss its rollout and the MTM NBN policy in public.

In addition, Turnbull’s election ensures that a number of key NBN staff seen as being partisan towards the Coalition — such as NBN Chair Ziggy Switkowski and senior executives such as JB Rousselot and Karina Keisler — will keep their roles at the NBN company. It had been expected that a number of these executives would have lost their positions if Labor had claimed victory in the election.

It also appears likely, given the likely constitution of the Senate, that the Senate Select Committee into the NBN will be re-established, with Labor, the Greens and the Nick Xenophon Team appearing likely to support such a move. The Greens have pledged to re-establish the Committee as part of its NBN policy.

This would mean that the NBN project would continue to be scrutinised by a dedicated parliamentary oversight committee, as well as through the Senate Estimates processes associated with the Senate’s Standing Committee on Environment and Communications, which will be automatically re-established when the Senate next sits.

In addition, it is likely that the Coalition will continue to examine long-term plans to split up the NBN company into smaller chunks and privatise it.

The Coalition’s expanded plan to tackle mobile blackspots during the next several years is also likely to be enacted. It is broadly supported by Labor.

It is expected that current Communications Minister Mitch Fifield will remain in his role following the election. One further task for Turnbull in the area of technology policy will be to decide whether to source a replacement for Innovation Minister Wyatt Roy, who lost his seat of Longman in the poll.

Opinion/analysis to follow.

Image credit: Office of Malcolm Turnbull

Related posts:

  1. Fibre to the node: Turnbull to meet with Quigley
  2. NBN a “key election issue”, Labor policy coming soon, says Shorten
  3. “Incredible” interest in NBN election issue, says Plibersek
  4. NBN election: Labor polling voters on Coalition’s NBN performance
  5. Coalition NBN policy shifts to fibre to the node

237 COMMENTS

    • Our only hope is that TurnBull can only form a minority gov and that Labor use this to their advantage to put up their own NBN legislation with the independents support forcing a change of direction back to FTTP (they’ve said they will do this in a general sense, unlike Abbott who spent 3 years saying No No No).

      • Turnbull might not need cross bench support to form Government, also I am not aware of any members of the 2016 election result cross bench having strong views about supporting the Labor NBN policy as condition of them backing the Coalition on important areas like supply.

        • The independents have said they won’t block supply, but will vote for policies based on their own policies. Thus, if their policies aligned with Labor, they would vote for them, right?

        • Unfortunately for the coalition of fear of change of everything Turnbull/Abbottard LNP. In the real world of reality, the real inconvenient truth lies above in the house of the new Oz senate.

          Here the coalition of fear of change of everything including modern urgently needed internet 1Gbps technology. Thus the Turnbull/Abbottard LNP requires a minimum of 39 sitting members to pass all legislation bar the money bills.

          With a mere 29 sitting senators give or take the fear of change of everything Turnbull/Abbottard LNP coalition. In the Oz new senate, the Turnbull/Abbottard fear of change of everything LNP party, is now a virtual claw less and toothless alley cat with around 29 sitting senators, give or take. The new revised Oz 2016 senate can also easily block or delay by referring to a house committee much of the legislation! If a sitting majority of 39 members is not achieved.

          Now, that be the inconvenient truth!

          One that the fear of all changes the relatively weak in numbers, all Turnbull/Abbottard LNP senators fear the most from the first session of the new federal Oz parliament sworn in post erection 2016.

          Nice to see, Reality deliberately avoided the evil words “The New Oz Senate”. lol

    • Australia and Britain should get their heads together and do a dating service startup. It would be a huge overnight success!!!

    • “I can no longer abide by this country.”

      That is what I said to myself in 2002, my friend. By 2005 I throw in the towel and left the country as fast as my legs could carry me to save my life!

      Today the whole shebang is a fucking joke and I am glad I am safe and can observe the comedy show from a great distance!

  2. I didn’t vote for them and I don’t agree with this policy.

    Will anything change in the next 3 years – I’m thinking not.

    If anything, it could get worse -defund the nbn, sell it to Telstra and nothing changes.

    • The bigger concern than defunding is it running out of money. Peak funding is $29.5b – after which they need to raise funds from private equity, and to do that, they need to be able to provide a network with a guaranteed rate of return… which the MTM model cannot do.

      Someone I follow on twitter – either Mark Newton or Stilgherrian – wrote about it extensively a while back. If I can find some time later today I’ll look it up.

      • JC,

        The Government funding is predicted by Treasury in the last Budget to run out midway through 2017.

        This funding would run out even if Labor had won the election, most likely sooner because Labor was going to rollout the more expensive and slower to deploy FTTP instead of FTTN to 2M residences.

        They didn’t say when this slower FTTP deployment would start of course.

        • Clearly you haven’t watched the recent video of Mike Quigley that explained that the full FTTP rollout was on track to deliver the project on budget by 2021.

          At least with the FTTP network the rate of return was high enough that commercial investors would be prepared to take a punt. I daresay that isn’t the case for the MTM network and we’ll be lumped with a half-arsed project that never completed.

          • Amazing that the full FTTP rollout, that is to 93% of residences was on track to deliver on budget and be finished by 2021.

            The Labor NBN policy which had much less FTTP only 2M more taken from the FTTN target, and it also used the cheaper to rollout and faster to deploy Coalition HFC and FTTB models had a peak funding requirement of $57B with a finish date of 2022.

            So which one is correct JC?

          • So which one is correct JC?

            That’s easy, the one that has nothing to do with the LPA ;o)

          • Wrong answer, both options are not what the Australian electorate voted for, the first full FTTP one was chucked in 2013, the last minute cobbled together one with a hasty partial FTTP injection was chucked out in 2016.

          • Considering devoid that we have had 3 years of the NBN doing nothing other than chafing to fttn and HFC so of corse they do 2021 again is the glacial rollout of the MTM so far.

          • Wrong answer, both options are not what the Australian electorate voted for, the first full FTTP one was chucked in 2013, the last minute cobbled together one with a hasty partial FTTP injection was chucked out in 2016.

            Clearly your reading comprehension is getting worse ;o)

          • F.F.S., Will you guys stop already!!!

            ..Stop messing with Reality’s medication so they go on silly incoherant/daft ramblings;

            It is no longer funny…

            ..Yeh, nevermind; Just kidding,… Continue ..lol XD

            Reality Quote: “..FTTP one was chucked in 2013..”

            LOL @ chucked & 2013

            Later, RIPP :)

          • Which one is correct? The original ALP plan for 93% fibre, before it got tainted with lies and this half arsed MTM crap that will need to be replaced by 2030…

            Seriously, go read the Mike Quigley speech and show me exactly where his logic and maths are wrong.

          • It has already been done in the Delimiter discussion on the speech and does it matter anymore, we are heading into a second term Coalition Government rolling out a known MtM NBN policy, it’s waste of time carrying forward obsolete costing predictions from 2012, they are irrelevant for 2016-2019.

          • @ alain

            “It has already been done in the Delimiter discussion on the speech and does it matter anymore, we are heading into a second term Coalition Government rolling out a known MtM NBN policy…”

            So shh let’s never again mention “MTM – fully costed, ready to roll, 25mbps for all Aussies by 2016”

            Because lies only pertain to my political foes. So let’s just forget my guys said that eh?

            There fixed that for you.

            But no… that’s (25mbps for all Aussies by 2016) exactly what we (well I anyway) will hone in on, because that was the promise for rolling out the inferior MTM.. and the only part which has actually eventuated is the inferiority part…

            You’re welcome

          • it’s waste of time carrying forward obsolete costing predictions from 2012

            What about obsolete costing predictions from 2013 Alain, are they also irrelevant for 2016-2019? ;o)

          • oh dear?

            The funding was still going to run out if Shorten had won, what is your point?

          • Shorten…LOL

            Point is I don’t have a dumb political agenda, as you do…

            Let me remind you, regardless of Shorten,…LOL

            I’m here to support FTTP… what a revelation.

            FTTP which had a different plan (unlike FRAUDBAND which is forever changing – see the new solar power plants – $B’s blown out), was closer to being on target than FRAUDBAND (not 4 years behind), was on budget (even according to the Turnbull buddies CBA), was ramping up (not doing nothing for two years as you told us FTTN did), is completely superior to the debacle FRAUDBAND…

            Shall I continue?

            BTW – a genuine congratulations on your precious election win (see handing out those how to vote cards and monetary donations were a real contribution) and I am glad the Coalition can govern in their own right, rather than in a hung parliament…

            Because now in their second term and not having to govern in a minority, they won’t be able to keep fucking blaming everyone else… :)

            You’re welcome

          • The funding was still going to run out if Shorten had won, what is your point?

            Very true Alain, Mal Kim blew it all on the MtM switch.

          • Fizz,

            I’m here to support FTTP… what a revelation.

            Not happening, you might get another chance in 2019, by then brownfields FTTP will be irrelevant anyway.

            A lot like the content of your posts, have been irrelevant, still will be.

          • @ alain…

            So the Coalition have stopped “all FTTP have they”?

            Anyway you are still (perpetually) confused – “copper” is irrelevant and obsolete.

            You’re welcome – apology accepted.

      • > The bigger concern than defunding is it running out of money.

        The most amusing part is that by campaigning to cut CVC rates it ensures that NBNCo run out of money sooner and future profitability decreases.

        The second thought is to consider that speed tiers have made the NBN less attractive compared with alternatives for less demanding users again further reducing revenue.

  3. The only thing I could see that might put an early end to FTTN would be if more people who get FTTN over the next three years end up with not much more than they are getting on ADSL, and actually decide to get up off their ass… and complain. The more vocal, angry complaints we get about a “non-functional” FTTN, the better chance we have of getting it killed.

    I’m sure Ziggy, Bill and co will try to “sweet talk it” in someway, however…

    • Doubtful as 84% have willingly selected 25Mbps or slower which means they don’t really care.

      The best hope is for fibre on demand.

      • F.O.D. from a FTTN design …Hilarious!!

        F.O.D. for simple residential people is like $600 just to get a quote of actual costs.

        Then for most you’d be looking at $5,000-$20,000+, if you’re lucky.

        Only way to possibly reduce this might be if you could get most of your street to pony up cash for F.O.D..

        But then again, even if you all pay for quotes, NBN is allowed to say, “no can do”, or give extremely outragous costings, so you don’t proceed with the F.O.D. & nbn get to still keep the money you paid to have a quote sent to you.

        Some community areas & towns have also tried for the FTTP upgrade process,(FTTN upgraded to FTTP design, before builds have started) paying tens of thousands of dollars for the quotes, only to receive back like a 2 page,(barely anything listed) quote, with a multi-million dollar, rediculously overpriced, price tag on it.

        Some linky-links :)

        http://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-co-reveals-costs-for-users-to-switch-to-fibre-401584

        http://www.nbnco.com.au/connect-home-or-business/technology-choice-program.html

        http://www.nbnco.com.au/connect-home-or-business/technology-choice-program/individual-premises-switch.html

        http://www.nbnco.com.au/connect-home-or-business/technology-choice-program/area-switch.html

        http://www.nbnco.com.au/connect-home-or-business/technology-choice-program/application-process.html

        F.O.D. ..Too fuckin’ funny!

        Ps. Your 25Mb/s percentages,(even if correct numbers, as opposed to doubtful & reasoning for such speed choices, a total failure in logical thinking) only would apply for now.

        If a super desired/beneficial new service, or application that required 75Mb/s or more, was developed & active by next week, then all those people on FTTP @ 25Mb/s or less currently,(assuming no cost barriers) could upgrade to 100Mb/s & start using the new service/app..

        You don’t have such abilities on FTTN,(especially any decent 100Mb/s for most people) & F.O.D. to remedy this issue; Is still, LOL XD

        Later, RIPP.

        • FOD is a (bad) joke RIPP, Malcolm called the ALP liars when they called him out and said he’d charge more than $5k for it (and he insinuated it’d be around $2-2.5k).

          We now see the 3 successful applications (from the ~500), have paid more than $12k each…

          Why do Australian’s keep voting in liars?

          • We used to have an ethos of Honour, Integrity & Mateship;

            A residual positive from WW2 as I saw it growing up.

            Over time that’s sadly clearly eroded, but I guess some of the public still like to think,(subcontiously atleast) no-one in a position of power, like in government, could ever lie so blatently to us, when the lie, if successful, would ultimately be hurtful for the country & it’s people,(essentially being a treasonous act).

            I hope one day people wake up & leading by example, bring an old ethos back into reality, by doing every decent thing they can for the people & the country;

            First & foremost lose the selfishness,(which also increases a persons gullability) & think of the country & its’ people first.

            Later, RIPP :)

          • +1

            It’s so easy to actually verify stuff for yourself these days with search engines like Google, DuckDuckGo and Bing and online research databases and encyclopedias like Wikipedia, Google Scholar and even specific research tools like PubMed for specific areas.

            People pretty well just choose to be ignorant now days.

      • Doubtful as 84% have willingly selected 25Mbps or slower

        Do you have evidence of that Mathew, as in you’ve surveyed them, or have seen a survey, to see why they are “willingly” picking those plans?

        • The number of people on 25Mbps or slower will increase over time as they find they can not get over 25Mbps on FTTN

  4. See, i’m not entirely 100% sure on this one. Turnbull called the election because the DD had been triggered, he was hoping for a Senate that would be kinder to him, what he has ended up with is a potentially more hostile senate than before.

    Turnbull’s days as PM may not last forever.

  5. I’m immensely looking forward to the inevitable screams of outrage from those stuck on FTTN in 10 years’ time when their connections crap out from the heavy load. I’m willing to bet most of them voted Coalition in 2013 and 2016. Meanwhile, our nearest neighbours like New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc. will all be measuring downloads in Gigabits, while our elected officials are still arguing on whether or not people really need 50 megabits.

    RIP NBN. Whatever’s left isn’t worth the scrap metal it’s made of.

    Oh well. With any luck, our so called “digital economy” will never eventuate thanks to this farcical mess and the whole country will grind to a shuddering halt. Maybe then people will learn to educate themselves before they vote.

    • I’m immensely looking forward to the inevitable screams of outrage from those stuck on FTTN in 10 years’ time when their connections crap out from the heavy load.

      Copper fanboy knuckle draggers wont complain no matter how inconvenienced they are, they wont want to admit the broadband nirvana they were fooled into believing would eventuate doesn’t actually stand the test of time.

      • Alernatively have you considered that selfish fibre fanbois are unable to appreciate the reality that 84% are choosing to order speeds that are easily available on FTTN and hence haven’t considered how to change this.

        • Alernatively have you considered that selfish copper fanboys are unable to appreciate the reality that 65% are choosing to order speeds that are not easily available on FTTN and hence haven’t considered how to change this.

        • @Mathew,

          Your 25Mb/s or lower percentages, you bandy around,(even if ever correct numbers) only would apply for now.

          If a super desired/beneficial new service, or application that required 75Mb/s or more was developed & active by next week, then all those people on FTTP @ 25Mb/s or less currently,(assuming no cost barriers) could upgrade to 100Mb/s & start using the new service/app..

          You don’t have such abilities on FTTN,(especially any decent 100Mb/s for most people) & F.O.D. to remedy this issue, is; LOL XD,(obscene costs, even if were to be granted as viable from nbn).

          Later, RIPP.

        • Alernatively have you considered that selfish fibre fanbois are unable to appreciate the reality that 84% are choosing to order speeds that are easily available on FTTN and hence haven’t considered how to change this.

          Doesn’t really matter anymore, does it? The rest of the NBN will be FttN, so you get your wish of Australia’s NBN being second class to most of the rest of the world and “84% of Australia being 25Mbps or less”.

          Still, it’s not all bad news, is it, maybe we’ll get some gold medals at the Olympics!!1

          • Tinman_au Quote: “Still, it’s not all bad news, is it, maybe we’ll get some gold medals at the Olympics!!”

            Provided the copper isn’t crap, copper run too long & node cabinet, or the like, plagued with water ingress,(eg. heavy rain &/or flooding) node connected people, Might even be-able to watch some of the Olympics via their shiny new fttN connections, without stalling too many times to buffer.

            Something FTTP people don’t have to worry about.

            It’s only cvc tightassing ISPs that affect proper future-facing technology like FTTP.

            Later, RIPP :)

          • Sadly RIPP (and thank you for bringing this up), copper is a major component in bronze, which while it’s nice to get as a runner up, means you aren’t actually a winner ;o)

  6. Where’s the evidence NBN had any impact in any divisions?

    The welfare states & territories voted for even greater welfare, seats in other states saw Delcon first preferences heading right.

    ALP second lowest first preference in its history, greens representation likely to decline. Nationals and minor parties the winners.

    Quigley / Windor duo a complete disaster (preferences not even distributed) running a largely FTTP focused campaign (comical given Quigley’s performance on delivery).

    Turnbull has taken a battering (see if he learns from it). Best possible result.

    Already this year delimiter missed the ACCC report, CVC issues, ARPU underperforming forecasts (all techs), misdiagnosed congestion as a FTTN failure, skinny fibre impacts and not yet the mention that NBNCo passed in the WEEK before the election almost the same number of servicible premises as Quigley achieved in his 4.5 YEARS. Blowing away CP16 targets, reaching them a first in the company’s 8th year.

    A few will continue to analyse the data to check performance. ALPs claim of two year delay (2022) will be interesting (as likely as their 2m additional FTTH for +$1b peak funding and 6mths delay; swallowed by the fiberartzi).

    Another election over, delay of zero concern to most, snowflakes will be devastated. Life for the rest moving on. NBNCo’s AR in a month; massive losses continuing.

    • Liberal Party – Lowest ever primary.

      As for the rest of your post – NBN MK1 was only in for 3.5 years.

      The LNP have been in power for 2.5 years and have connected less than 50k to their solution.

      As for life moving on – what’s going to happen when funding runs out?

      • NBNCo formed APR09. 4.5 years correct.

        500k FTTN/H/HFC.

        Same for all GBE’s; taxpayers to be hit. The waste of this policy folly is just beginning.

        • Waste of a policy folly – ie:fttn which will not pay for itself (2.7% roi!)

          You know the cost of everything but the value of nothing – if we had short term thinking like yours we would never build anything.

          Let me guess (derp):
          5g/wireless is the future
          No one needs greater than 25mbps
          The internet is only used for entertainment
          FTTN can be upgraded to FTTP quite easily

          Have I missed anything?

          • FTTH negative IRR. I suspect the same for MTM.

            Wireless demand will continue to grow rapidly, but not likely to replace fixed line for high value area.

            Universal 25+Mbps is a laugh (currently 1.05mbps CVC per NBNCo customer). Higher demand users have many options.

            Internet for most is mainly video.

            FTTN upgrade isn’t complicated, fibre already provisioned. Costs lots money.

          • Wireless demand will continue to grow rapidly, but not likely to replace fixed line for high value area.

            Most studies find that fixed line and wireless are complimentary, and not replacing each other. In fact Budde just put on out the other week.

          • “FTTH negative IRR”

            Nope…

            “Wireless demand will continue to grow rapidly, but not likely to replace fixed line for high value area. ”

            That ole chestnut…no matter how many times it is debunked, folks just keep rolling it back out.

            “Universal 25+Mbps is a laugh”

            Agreed…less than a gigabit will do nothing but extend the recession. Gigabit (what the rest of the world will have in 4 years) is the requirement for a modern OECD country…

            “Internet for most is mainly video”

            Thank you Mr Luddite…

            “FTTN upgrade isn’t complicated, fibre already provisioned”

            Obviously not as the average cost for a fibre upgrade is $13,000 right now, and none of the upgrades ever connect at the node.

      • Liberal Party primary vote – lower than the Labor party’s as I think it always is.

          • He said, Liberal… not Coalition,(that includes the Nationals’ vote etc..).

            Coalition is not a single party, they just seek to run government/opposition as a single party,(dominated by the Liberals’ agendas; Dumb gullable Nationals).

            Later, RIPP :)

          • It doesn’t matter what the Liberal primary vote is the Coalition primary vote is what is important, it’s not the Liberal Party that has won Government it is the Coalition Party, and they don’t need cross bench support unlike Labor in 2010, they have won with their own majority.

          • Lol devoid
            Your right it doesn’t need the help from the Cross bench but need help from 2 parties lol

            But then fake was talking about the liberal party but then you do have trouble reading with no pics. Btw can you point out in the 2013 policy using more than 0% of HFC again I need a laugh again

          • Dear Lack-of,

            It shows that more Australians straight up prefer Labor & their policies than the Liberals’.

            Your Coalition vote numbers however, show that the people that vote for the National party are as gullable, or rusted-on as ever.

            I’d suggest Labor overall, have always sought to do & done, more good for the rural comunities/people,(National party heartland) either directly, or indirectly, via good nationwide policy, than the Nationals,(as Liberal party lapdogs in the Coalition) have ever done.

            Later, RIPP.

          • @ alain…. ROFL, typical…

            Dale – “The Liberal Party primary vote – lower than the Labor party’s…”

            Alain – “Except it isn’t… Coalition 42.1%, Labor 34.9%…”

            TM – Liberal: 28.56%
            ALP: 35.08%

            Alain – It doesn’t matter what the Liberal primary vote is the Coalition primary vote is what is important.

            So after all that defensive, but, but, but, argumentative, childish stupidity…err, you were wrong alain and Dale was absolutely right.

            Period…

            Apology accepted/you’re welcome

          • Yep got all of that, this still is the key point when it comes to winning elections.

            It doesn’t matter what the Liberal primary vote is the Coalition primary vote is what is important.

            If the Nationals or the Liberals decided to break up there is a point to the distinction.

            The Nationals did so well in this election they want two extra front bench seats.

            It’s a Coalition Government returned through to 2019 with a Liberal PM and a Nationals Deputy PM.

          • Just can’t be a man even once and admit you were wrong “in what you said”, even when it’s clear as day, can you…?

            Deliciously…pitiful.

            You’re welcome

          • Don’t come into a thread with ignorant comments where you cherry pick TPP and compare it to single party first preferences, and then cry about it when you’re pulled up on it.

            As Rizz said, just own up to your mistake and move on, people would probably respect you more.

          • Meanwhile the Abbott/Turnbull LNP coalition with a miserable 28/9 senators is well below the 39 required to pass all lower house legislation. ouch!

            The overall vote is as follows:-

            LNP coalition 35.7% swing against 2%

            ALP 30.2% no swing detected

            The senate true proportional vote is the true reflection of all the Oz voters final say.

            The LNP coalition leader in the Senator elect George Brandis insulted the greens. So he won’t be getting their vote, short of sticking a gun up their collective asses, period. double ouch!

            Say the LNP coaltion fear of change of everything , failed to hit their target of 39. triple ouch!

    • Given how little respect you seem to have for the site, the editor, or most of the other contributors, why do you still come here?

        • What a coincidence… we do the same… at you…

          But we are many laughing… whilst you are but one, so…

          A reminder why we guffaw at your flat earth drivel so…

          We are laughing at the MTM debacle “you could have written”, at you not having even known anything about the different scenarios – yet babbling about the SR, not knowing the difference between 16m and 60m, using the CBA as “the” doc until it was pointed out that in the CBA they mentioned MQ got it right (and the CBA was dropped by you quicker than the Libs/Labor, dropped Abbott or Rudd with bad polling) and how you know in hindsight why the iron wires were no longer needed, but you have absolutely no capacity to learn from that and are completely sans foresight re: copper… and subsequently from there…the one where you are at odds with seemingly everyone everywhere (including your brethren far right) you do not believe FTTP is the end goal and that copper based BS will suffice…

          There are sooo many more, but thanks for the laughs Richard, you, like the Dodo, are truly are from a long lost era… but perhaps you and Jonesy could join us here in the now, by inventing a “laser” attachment for the precious copper.

          Apology accepted/you’re welcome

        • I personally like Richard, as I believe he provides a useful alternative viewpoint and is a more informed naysayer than most of the usual trolls.

          I do wish he would write a bit more coherently at times.

          • As I see it, its the incredible bias that gets him offside with most here. If there is a kernel of truth in anything he says, its generally something that applies to both sides of the debate, yet there is never any direct questioning of the Liberal MTM plan.

            His whole nature is slanted towards attacking Labor, which negates anything else he might bring to the discussion.

            “ALP second lowest first preference in its history, greens representation likely to decline. Nationals and minor parties the winners.” — an example from his post above. ALP second lowest first preference in its history, something that applies to the first preference voting for the coalition as well, yet the presentation paints a very biased picture.

            Every argument he puts forward has a similar bias and presentation, and its this that undoes any benefits from being more informed.

          • Hi Renai :)

            {WHISPERS LOUDLY} We all know you keep guys like this alive to boost the comments coming in from the more rational people feeling the need to rebutt their biased drivel,(rarely a sane post might be made by them, rarely indeed tho), thus helping to promote your stories & website;

            Like a form of clickbait ;)

            I’m sure Rizz might cheekily add, “You’re Welcome”, if this were a rebuttal to a libshill/troll… But I’m adding it here to keep Reality confused.

            You’re Welcome.

            Later, RIPP :)

          • I like him too…

            As I spelled out above… much as I like Jim Jefferies, Jimmy Carr et al.

            ;)

          • Renaii, could you tell everyone to stop writing in bolt, I feel like I’m being shouted at, it’s rude. I don’t mind Dicky being here as long as he remains factual, unfortunately that’s his problem. I enjoy watching everyone one beat him over the head, nothing like having a bad day at work and coming here to Delimiter and taking your frustrations out on Dicky, Dicky is the gift that keeps on giving.

    • Renai and others have covered CVC extensively Richard.

      Also those high numbers you spruik for recent rollout stats were planned. It’s called a ‘ramp up’.

      • Yes – Renai has covered it, I disagree it’s been covered ‘extensively’. The bulk of the nbn coverage here has been on the MTM.

        I’d argue things like 121 POI & CVC pricing are the massive issues (bigger than MTM and need more coverage). Needing scale to compete has seen rapid consolidation in the market. This is much much harder to fix once it happens – replacing MTM with fibre only needs capital.

    • Nice short memories there richard. lmao

      Hmm, in the devil island called Tasmania. Election 2016 result was a total loss of all fear of change of everything one term wonders from LNP coalition lower house members, in one king hit. lol

      West coast of Tasmania pre-election bribe by Ziggy/Morrow at NBN FTTN to replace the crappy Hellstra rotten under maintained limp spaghetti ADSL. End result, LNP member voted out after one term. lol.

        • … after being previously lied to by the current mob about receiving FTTP.

          There fixed/completed that for you.

          So the NBN was a factor in Tassie again 2016, as it was in 2010…but not in 2013 due to the FTTP lie?

          Now we wait…lol

          You’re welcome.

  7. >”I’m immensely looking forward to the inevitable screams of outrage from those stuck on FTTN in 10 years’ time when their connections crap out from the heavy load. I’m willing to bet most of them voted Coalition in 2013 and 2016.”

    Not sure why you think that – FTTN isn’t being rolled out by electorate voting patterns. As many Labor sets are getting FTTN as LNP.

    Not to mention the large numbers of people in Lib sets who voted against the LNP.

  10. New Thread in the WP Forums “NBN/MTM The Aftermath” Where do we go from here? The NBN has been destroyed forever.
    There is no way to undo the damage done without another $50b makeover.
    What a mess. This will not end well. The Senate may investigate and report, but as we have seen in the past, bringing them to account is futile. The Senate Committee is basically a toothless tiger .
    Though, it may now open the doors for some other ISPs to overbuild the MTM with alternative deliveries or Technologies, but the days of a Nation Wide ubiquitous network are over. We are done for ..RIP.

    • It’ll be so far into the future that Australia will have dropped so far down the rankings that the best and brightest will be moving overseas earlier and earlier.

      We’ve still got out sunshine, maybe solar power can save us…oh, same reason, no, never mind then.

    • Howard took us to a disastrous war and got rewarded. I see a similar outcome for Turnbull. These guys are teflon coated.

      • These guys are teflon coated.

        You only need to look at their “supporters” to see why…

      • as ex military, Howard did the right thing.
        as far as Turnbull goes, based on policies, of which nbn is only one (and that is something everyone on here conveniently ignores) I support far more liberal policies than labor so I voted liberal. actually, labor and greens I scored equal lowest on policy survey. where they belong. do I think fttp is better? sure. do I think the Australian implementation of it could be done in a proper and financial efficient state to make it worthwhile? nope. I think we’re screwed either way financially.

        I think had the liberal party installed bishop as PM, labor would be wondering why they feel icky after being how shall we say, assaulted and left feeling dirty. I actually wasn’t convinced turnbull could pull this election off but as well as policies, the thought that shorten would be PM was too appalling to contemplate. they should feel lucky they got what they did.

          • so you admit you cant read? all I said was on a survey of policies, I agreed with more liberal ones than labor. that isn’t even close to saying I blindly agree with anything.
            please don’t start your nonsensical attacks on me like you do in every other article on here with other people. its people like you who don’t read who cause this country trouble.

          • @J

            “so you admit you cant read?”

            “please don’t start your nonsensical attacks on me like you do in every other article on here with other people.”

            As I already mentioned below…

            Obviously, the complete hypocrisy of the nature and content of these parts of your comment, have completely eluded you?

            But then we are used to it with those who come here with clearly anything but a comms agenda.

            At ease soldier.

          • Lol, J so you voted for the party with the headline policy (and nothing else of substance) that history shows has negative impacts on economies.

            Not too bright are you, I guess that explains why you joined the military, following orders doesn’t require you to think for yourself.

        • You are correct this country is screwed because we continue to elect dumb and dumber politicians who do not believe in progress, accountability or climate change. Only the Oz senate reflects the entire Oz voters true intentions.

          Oz invaded three countries under false flag pretenses. Vietnam in 1962. Afghanistan in 2001 and finally Iraq in 2003.

          PS heard on the grapevine. The only true reason why the military staunchly supported John Winston Howard’s false flag non essential for the defense of Oz wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The answer, is purely about a bribe of large tax free war zone payments.

          In 1949, three countries who invaded under false flag pretenses in 1939 and the last in the far east in 1941.

          One was awarded $100 million dollars(1935 US Dollars) bonus fine payable by Finland.

          For the other two, their countries surviving leaders were tried and found guilty of war crimes. One country in Europe had to pay war reparations. In the far east, the invading country paid next to zero in war reparations.

          How much will Oz taxpayers be forced pay in the future for John Winston Howard’s short sighted false flag invasions? Along with the LNP coalition parties pedantic short sighted microscopic views of the real world of technology and near absolute denial of global warming.

        • of which nbn is only one (and that is something everyone on here conveniently ignores)

          More than likely, because it is a tech site, not a political site?

          We’ve also discussed Malcolm’s innovation policy quite a bit as well, but I don’t really think it’s appropriate to go into non-tech policies here except in passing or when they touch on tech subjects (their defence of negative gearing or tax cuts to people on $80k+ a year should be left to other sites for instance).

  11. The move has several strong and immediate implications for the National Broadband Network.

    I thought this was obvious after the 2013 election. Those that said “We only have one chance to get this right” (myself included) were right. The mess the coalition clowns made was never going to be easy to fix regardless of the outcome of this election. Achieving the correct FttP end goal will now take longer and at greater expense, but given he coalition clowns vandalism was policy motivated we can only assume they are ok with wasting time and money.

    Firstly, the election victory will ensure that the Coalition’s Multi-Technology Mix approach to the National Broadband Network will remain.

    Indeed and with 172 days left they have no excuses. Furthermore the continued mess that eventuates and all that it encompasses (slower broadband “sooner”) will serve as a reminder of what not to do when rolling out communications infrastructure to adequately meet today’s and future needs, we can without a shadow of doubt point the finger at those responsible when asked who exactly is to blame.

  12. I’m done. What’s left to debate? Time to knuckle down and exploit this folly for all it’s worth. After all, the majority of affluent business owners are conservative voters, they’re the ones who put us in this situation (them and their right-wing bogan working class cadre of uneducated £#@&tards). Over the next ten years expect them to cry foul over their inability to compete in an increasingly global marketplace due to low quality yet extraordinarily expensive broadband services, and the inability for their local customers to connect to the services they do try to get off the ground. Lots of opportunity to separate them from their money, so I fully intend to make them pay dearly, one rich a$$hole at a time. Dunno about you kids, but my business plan just had ‘international relocation’ as a two year primary objective.

    See ya round!

    • The majority of who complain (from what I’ve seen) when the copper network fails or they are connected to FTTN and their speeds decrease and congestion increases.

    • Pay for a fibre connection to your home / place of business. Setup a bunch of antennas and re-sell wireless internet access to homes and businesses with line of sight to your antennas. Bam!

      Meet you in Auckland.

      • “Meet you in Auckland”

        That’s where I just moved my investment money too…Australia is no longer a safe place to invest.

          • You’re looking at historical data Alain, not what people will be looking at doing in the future.

            Try the Global Opportunity Index instead, that shows where people are looking at heading, not where they’ve been…

            http://www.globalopportunityindex.org/opportunity.taf?page=rankings

            And once they finish their UFB, they’ll only increase their Economic Fundamentals score (as that includes Physical Infrastructure, which they rank fairly low at as of the 2015 report).

          • Indeed Tm,

            It’s known as having an unmovable (normally political and/or selfish/greed) position, regardless of facts and then cherry-picking all figures/info, to desperately try to fit within this unmovable (dishonest/unethical) position…

            Such as the FTTN puppets here do 24/7…

            Rather than like us, having all of the info at hand and then forming a position from a basis of factual solidity and arguing accordingly and not swaying from that position.

            This is why the FTTN puppets forever hypocritically contradict themselves to defend their previous, err contradictions…as they have no factual basis and need to sway and flip-flop again and again.

            Whilst it’s quite humorous to poke fun at, it is also quite pitiful, to behold and to know our fellow countrymen/women can be so selfish and biased.

          • Tinman,

            You’re looking at historical data

            yeah 2015 the year 2016 has not finished yet to get that data.

            LOL

          • @ alain

            “…the year 2016 has not finished yet…”

            Oh so you telling us we can “all still expect the clearly promised 25mbps by the end of 2016 at a cost of $29.5B, then”?

            LOL indeed

            You’re welcome

          • “Australia is doing very well with OS investment”

            We were, while there was a chance that the MTM could be stopped.

          • yeah 2015 the year 2016 has not finished yet to get that data.

            Nice cherry pick there (and a goal post move thrown in too! Bonus points!) ;o)

            You picked out a part of a sentence (not even the full thing) and ignored the entirety of the rest of the post, and then tacked on a “LOL”?

            Do you act like a child when you discuss things with people face-to-face as well?

          • You both have later data from DFAT that shows that foreign investment has dropped because it can be shown it is directly attributed to the Coalition MtM?

          • No, I’m saying you are putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say, and you haven’t addressed my actual points at all.

            Using your own data, Australia sees NZ as a great opportunity, they are the third highest ranking country that we invest in for example.

            Using ABS data, capital expenditure in Australia is down 15.4% compared to the same period last year. It’s dropping because we are still coming off the massive investment that the mining industry received during the boom (which is why I referred to your link as “historical”), the actual data shows investment is crashing in Australia:

            http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/5625.0

            Think about that for a while and come back to me if you want a sensible discussion instead of a “tit for tat” about it.

    • That’s ok, they’ll just write it off as Business expense – from all the tax cuts to the corporates.. oh wait they don’t pay tax on that ;P

  13. Of course the predictable post election outcry, play down the role the NBN had only because Labor lost, if Labor had won it would have been the FTTP component of their NBN policy that was a major election decider.

    (shh, nobody mention the seat of New England)

    The opposite cannot be applied to the party that won Government, the Coalition MtM was not a election decider, because umm err it just wasn’t.

    The ‘umm err it just wasn’t’ approach was used in the 2013 election as well, so that’s twice now that the Coalition MtM policy virtually untouched has help to win them a election.

    • You really have no idea whats happening in the world around you do you?

      Labor can lose, and their policies still be an election decider. Given how many seats the Liberals lost, there has to be reasons for that, and if it was for poor performance, what was poor about that performance?

      Labor focussed on two issues – medicare and communications. And given how close the election was, I’d say both of those became massive election deciders which mean the NBN was a significant issue.

      They decided the election was far closer than there as any reasonable assumption they’d be. They werent big enough to win, but they were still a big enough issues that Labor got more 2 party preferred votes than the Liberals.

      • You really have no idea whats happening in the world around you do you?

        He really doesn’t. S&P waited till after the election to give the negative outlook call, guess they don’t agree with Alain that the LPA getting in again was “a good thing”…

      • So you are comfortable that the 2010 election where the result was much closer than this one, it was a hung Parliament, had nothing whatever to do with the NBN, or did it?

        Also the 2013 election where the Coalition won with a substantial majority had nothing to do with the NBN, or did it?

        Along comes 2016, and it is the NBN apparently that part caused so many Coalition seats to be lost.

        You would think if enough electors were pissed off with the MtM after six years this would be reflected in election results, with the only party with a alternative NBN policy Labor, winning this years election easily.

        • You would think if enough electors were pissed off with the MtM after six years this would be reflected in election results, with the only party with a alternative NBN policy Labor, winning this years election easily.

          Or just narrowly missing this time around, yeah, I’d agree but the Coalition landslide this ti….oh, wait….look at those results!

          And I’ll bet you guys are still blaming Labor (for everything) in another three years ;o)

          • Oh so it’s ‘narrowly missing this time around’, what’s that a mandate to implement Labor policy? lol

            Not as narrow as 2010, or the landslide victory the Coalition had in 2013 on the back of their MtM policy.

            But you need to ignore history.

            So it’s back to the hate and abuse until 2019 eh, what else is there to do?

          • Oh so it’s ‘narrowly missing this time around’, what’s that a mandate to implement Labor policy? lol

            The only “mandate” and side ever has it to those that voted them in. Same as those in the Senate have a mandate to block the crap LPA policies.

            But you need to ignore history.

            I’m not ignoring history, I disagree with your assumption that the LPA should be able to do whatever they want when all they have is a mandate to try and present their policies which the other Reps/Senators then vote on based on the mandate of those that put them there. I’d say the same thing even if Labor won.

            Or are you also a loony Gerry Harvey supporter and think Australia should become a dictatorship? http://www.businessinsider.com.au/this-australian-billionaire-wants-a-dictatorship-like-china-2016-7

        • Politics isnt decided on one issue alain, its decided on a range of issues and how well each party campaigns before the Day.

          And this election had NBN as an issue that Labor considered significant enough to base a considerable amount of their campaign around. Not the only thing, but a key thing.

          It didnt get them the win, but a) given where they were 3 years ago, and b) the chances most “experts” gave them of even being close, its clear there was a significant swing of votes against the incumbent government.

          So what caused that? Swing voters decide during the campaign, and when the only issues the MSM seemed to report on in regards Labor was Medicare and NBN, which one was it that made it so close?

          You’re so encased in your own little world you just cant see whats happening with everyone else. It might not have been THE issue (that was Medicare), but it was AN issue.

          • I have no doubt for many the NBN was a issue, but it goes both ways, many voters would have been happy with the progress of the Coalition MtM, it’s not a one way street in that the NBN is only a issue when it is Labor policy solely because it contains 2M more residences on FTTP injection.

            The lead up to the election in regards to the NBN was full of incorrect statements, Labor came out and said the Coalition would announce FTTdp, it didn’t happen, commentators said Labor would announce FTTdp, it didn’t happen.

            I predicted many months out from the election that Labor would keep HFC and the Coalition FTTB model and that did happen, I assumed they would also have to add some FTTP as a face saver exercise ‘we need to be seen to be different’ effort.

            In the end the perception of any difference in the two NBN policies this time was not as stark as 2010 and 2013.

            If the Coalition had matched the 2M FTTP Labor policy injection and added a bit more for good measure, easy enough to do if they thought it was a issue, the election outcome would still have been the same.

          • Lol
            “I predicted many months out from the election that Labor would keep HFC”

            Considering that how great NBN at getting the HFC for when they start using it they talk ownership of it whether they use it or not. As they would need to keep it running until Foxtel decides not to use it.

          • You need to rattle around in 2010 for a point scoring exercise?

            jeez you can almost see the beads of desperation dripping onto the keyboard.

            Of course the the key finding from that review is as you know.

            Reith’s report stated that had the Coalition performed better on the broadband issue, it might have won the seat of Bass in Tasmania.

          • ROFL… you owe me $1 HC… too easy…

            @ alain, no just tagging you along at a whim and at my will, to win one fucking dollar :)

            But FFS “YOU” were the one who first brought up 2010 and then you criticise others for doing, err what you did… GOLD.

            alain ” So you are comfortable that the 2010 election where the result was much closer than this one…”

            Might – GOLD again

            You’re welcome

          • So as others have pointed out, you’re changing the rules again. Nice to see.

            The NBN played a part in 2010. Not so much in 2013, with a lot of other policies getting more attention. I have no problem with that, thats what happened. And we need to live with it.

            I ask you this. Are you happy living in a country where the rollout of infrastructure is going backwards, while the rest of the world we deal with is moving forwards?

            Those countries moving to 1 Gbps connections are starting NOW. When will we start, and how long will it take to roll out? This is a standard ‘build it and they will come’ situation, like every other tier of internet speed, why do you think its going to be different?

            With half of Asia and the US for starters moving to these, there will be products to utilise the speeds, so whats going to happen when products come along that start pushing 100 Mbps speeds or better and we cant use them?

            Seriously, what defective with your brain that you cant see that coming sooner rather than later? We WILL get to a point where FttN cant deliver, and need to upgrade the entire mess the Liberals are leaving us with.

            So how long will that take, and what will it cost? THATS the issue for most of us – the waste of time and money for no actual benefit.

            But keep thinking that 2006 is good enough. I dont have to care, I have access to what we all should be getting.

          • I have no doubt for many the NBN was a issue

            Open your eye’s Alain, there isn’t a week that goes by where there isn’t an article (sometimes multiple articles) covering “issues with the NBN”. There are also several posts a week saying they “have issues with the NBN”. There are also going to be many other issues when it comes time to upgrade.

            But you floating this “NBN ‘was’ an issue” like it’s all gone away is a totally new level of delusion…

          • You need to rattle around in 2010 for a point scoring exercise?

            It only keeps getting brought up because of your blind denial of it, even though most sources (including the LPA themselves I might add) clearly say it contributed to their loss that year.

          • The ‘issues with the NBN’ are spread across all the NBN model, it is not just FTTN.

            The ‘issues of the NBN’ to be simplistically solved by just magically adding 2M more to the FTTP rollout was just a delusion.

            I think the ALP breathed a sigh of relief they didn’t have to implement the slower to deploy and expensive CPP FTTP and meet their election funding estimate and have it all done by 2022.

          • Lol devoid if that was true then why is most complaints by areas 9 out of the top 10 are where they are building FTTN then.

          • @Reality

            CVC,(price atleast) & 121 poi,(stupid high number, thanks ACCC idiots) are something that’s an issue with all models, sure,(not that you mentioned those specifically) but the government of the day could get the CVC cost lowered & told the ACCC to fuck the hell off, with their rediculously high poi desires, as they’re primarily supposed to protect/help consumers.

            As for 2 Million more FTTP;

            Labor needed to increase the FTTP footprint but not give the Libs any big extra billions in additional costs over the Liberals plan,(even though it’s the Libs FTTN switchover that has blown out the nbn budget).

            Labor then were to have an independent panel of experts,(truely independant & experts; Not shills/mates) evaluate the FTTN & HFC builds & decide if & when these areas might need to again be upgraded & to what best technology.

            In other words, since FTTP would be the best technology & FTTN builds likely won’t be viable for very long, these would eventually become FTTP.

            So Labor are then closer to the original 93% FTTP plan, but since the panel was not created yet & not decided the obvious,(FTTP being tech to upgrade too) the costs needed not be shown ;)

            HFC side of things, if done correctly, might last longer than FTTN, hence I only talked of FTTN with a soon to be required upgrade,(5-10 before it better be started I’d say).

            Pity Labor lost the election, the country would’ve had more than 2 Million extra FTTP in the near future if they’d won;

            Ohwell, atleast the National voters fucked themselves out of FTTP that they wanted in their rural communities,(anywhere a community had around 1000 premises closes enough together was to get FTTP under Labors plans, or build costs could be subsidised for smaller communities to receive FTTP).

            Later, RIPP.

          • Reality Quote: “What report you looking at, you left out the link Rizz.”

            Jason K looks to be awarded title of Rizz for today ..lol XD

          • Ripp
            He has always called me Rizz. Kind of started when Rizz and I was making fun of him when he was trying to point out that Turnbull 2013 policy claimed to use HFC. When in the very said document he linked claiming his evidence showed that there election policy used 0% HFC.

            Best laugh I ever had with him. You should have seen him jumping up and down like a 2 year old tantrum.

          • @Realitiy,

            JasonK likely was aligning postcode & location data present with where FTTN was installed & active, along with the TIO complaints main issue of; “Internet connection delay”.

            They may also have other sources of information too, but the above link was most convenient for posting.

            You’re Welcome…
            [Sorry Rizz, hadz too ..lol XD]

            Later, RIPP :)

          • Lol devoid the top for suburbs in the report alone are where FTTN has been installed. But please try again

            Poor devoid thinks he has got it but then I should have release there was no pictures for you to read failed again.

          • @ RIPP,

            “Jason K looks to be awarded title of Rizz for today ..lol XD”

            This is where your description of our deluded friend as “dipshit”, although not respectful whatsoever… is nonetheless “absolutely right on the money”.

            :)

          • The TIO report still doesn’t break down complaints by BB infrastructure type.

            What ‘top four suburbs’ are you referring to where all the internet connection delay complaints were caused by FTTN, and how do you know this?

            BTW love the sock puppet routine to bolster the abuse numbers, it’s hilarious.

          • Now devoid
            Toukley, Newcastle, Warners Bay and Belmont North is where they have switched on FTTN. Funny enough they have the most complaints. What a coincidence.

            But please keep trying I know it’s hard you to read without pictures

          • So what percentage of those suburbs are active FTTN users, and how is that percentage shown in the stats, also more than four post codes have FTTN ‘switched on’, in Australia, so where are they in the post code complaints list?

          • It’s like alain groundhog day, isn’t it?

            You demand to be spoon fed over and over and when you have received many spoons of education, you won’t even say thanks.

            In fact rather than saying thanks and learning, you’ll pick one word to argue over, to desperately, unsuccessfully attempt to support your already immovable, politically ideological position.

            Or try to turn the info’s meaning around and misrepresent it in the future.

            Or of course, simply disappear to resurface elsewhere and claim the same contradictory BS again…

            Gotta give you credit for dedication, albeit dedication via completely disingenuous, contradictory, hypocritical and dishonest commentary.

            Or perhaps the mouse simply needs feeding again?

            Apology accepted.

          • Lol devoid
            But again must be a huge coincidence than after FTTN is turned on they have a huge surge in complaints to be the top 4 suburbs in the country of complaints to the tio

          • Rizz/Jasonk/RIPP, (same person)

            You avoided all the questions, understandably, especially the one about FTTN being available in more than just four suburbs in Australia.

            Also around 5 complaints/1000 people is not a ‘huge surge’, and how do you know it was not just one or two ISP’s not having the proper procedures in place to connect residences to FTTN after activation in a postcode area causing the complaint ‘internet connection delay’?

          • @Reality

            LOL, you’re such a nupty :D

            It was JasonK talking about the TIO, I merely sought to give you an idea where they may have been seeing the FTTN issue, before they got to then reply to you.

            IN OTHER NEWS: It now appears I’ve made the perminant hall of Rizz.

            Glad I didn’t typo a J for the R… Totally different hall,… [shudder].

            Later, RIPP :)

          • Troll, devoid, idiot all the same person

            You avoided all the question, has to be spoon fed information because you can’t read. Yet the areas top 4 complaints are in FTTN areas funny that.

            How do you know it’s not the poor service MTM is deliver for up to $56B. Considering they need 4 site visits for a trial customer to get close to 100Mbps. Or that NBN stats it doesn’t even test the copper unless a complaint is made or having a customer spend an extra $250 for a professional install.

          • Oh time to apply the switcharoo and talk about something else, so in the end you don’t know, just say so, but we got there in the end.

          • Still didnt answer my question. When we have FttN, and the rest of our competition has 1 Gbps, whats it going to take for us to catch up?

            To move from a MTM model to a full FttP model delivering 1 Gbps, whats it going to cost, and more importantly, how long is it going to take?

            We’re starting FttN now. Not 10 years ago, now. And it STILL wont be done for another 6 years. So how long is it going to take to upgrade from that 2021 point to something that can compete with the rest of the world?

          • No troll devoid idiot

            That what you do

            but please keep trying to use detour sign goal post as it shows how desecrate you are

          • Still didnt answer my question. When we have FttN, and the rest of our competition has 1 Gbps, whats it going to take for us to catch up?

            To move from a MTM model to a full FttP model delivering 1 Gbps, whats it going to cost, and more importantly, how long is it going to take?

            We’re starting FttN now. Not 10 years ago, now. And it STILL wont be done for another 6 years. So how long is it going to take to upgrade from that 2021 point to something that can compete with the rest of the world?

            All very good questions GongGav. Questions that anyone with a bit of foresight would ask and answer.

      • correction: labor lied about medicare and people believed it. They also ran campaigns maligning Xenophon for which he didn’t have the funds to fight.

          • the usual insults from the small minded idiots that frequent this website, like RIPP. LNP have stated clearly they will not sell off medicare. what they are doing is bringing its billing system into the 21st century. You might not believe it, but you cant prove that its not true. So far, they haven’t sold it, theres no evidence they will yet either. The only ones saying they will is labor. and that’s not evidence.

          • THATS an insult? You must have thin skin…

            What Labor said was fundamentally true. Seeing a doctor will cost the individual more money. By freezing Medicare payments, the doctors are forced to charge extra on top, just to maintain a) their own standard of living, b) their staff’s standard of living, and c) cover increases in the cost of doing business.

            So how to the doctors get more money to maintain that? Its either rob a bank or charge a surcharge. Which is no different to privatising the medicare system.

            Seriously, people have gotten caught up in a single word without wanting to acknowledge the core issue – higher GP costs WILL happen under the LNP plan to freeze Medicare payments to GP’s until 2020 or whenever it was.

          • @ J

            “The usual insults from the small minded idiots that frequent this website”

            Obviously, the complete hypocrisy of the nature and content of this part of your comment, has completely eluded you?

            But then we are used to it with those who come here with clearly anything but a comms agenda.

            At ease soldier.

          • @J,

            Thick much?

            “So far, they haven’t sold it, theres no evidence they will yet either.”

            Re: Salami tactics.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_tactics

            GongGav gave you some currently enacted ways the Liberals are seeking to break Medicares fundermentals also, with doctor payment freezes,(for an extendly long period in years) & direct,(co-payment) or indirectly,(no choice but to pass on additional costs) enacted surcharges then hitting patients wallets.

            Once Medicare is sold off, or split into too many privately controlled parts; It’s then too late to save it.

            Buy a vowel; Get a fucking clue ;)

            Later, RIPP.

          • Labor got it wrong on Medicare by overreaching, the simple truth that the coalition has been hollowing it it for years would have been enough and would have given a nice simple slogan “Hands off Medicare”.

    • why would anyone have said that Labor’s NBN policy had decided the election if there was a win? the lack of coverage is lack of coverage no matter what – is Delimiter reporting that Labor gained back all those seats and came close in so many others because they announced a gradual shift back to FTTP ? If Labor had won it would be because of their usual mantras and supposed strengths vs the coalitions supposed strengths ( health and education vs economic management)
      I’d think that virtually everyone who comments here is aware that voters aren’t all that engaged about the NBN and or don’t know much about the differences between policy.

      I was having a christmas day friendly conversation with a cousin who is a coalition voter (which I was during the Howard years but am no longer) and he was spruiking Turnbull as being that much better than Abbott and talking down Labors NBN, saying the speed delivered were not up to scratch and the cost was proportionately bad etc then when I was respectfully disagreeing and telling him why a puzzled look came over his face – he realised that Labor were not the party wanting to retain copper infrastructure and changed the topic quickly :)

    • Boring, regurgitated fiction and lies does not mean it is a basic truth from the real world. lmao

      Amusingly, you foolishly dig your own grave every time you open your mouth like Pavlov’s brainwashed dog. lol

      The same boring repeat after me lies, party line head in posterior propaganda and non creative pure fiction devoid of all data in the real world. It is one, that is routinely heard from all head in posterior brainwashed clowns trying to skew the view with complete fiction divorced from all forms of reality.

      Such is the power of Pavlov’s dog training system. Feed them tiny scraps and they are their masters absolute slaves for life. lol

      Do you really think you’re opponents are stupid? Or the pig that wants to be eaten?

      Do you think what you think you think?

      In 2013, a communication minister called Malcolm Turnbull promised that that “all” 23 million Oz urbanites would be connected with his MTM internet technology by 2016.

      In May 2008, Sol Trujillo the then soon to be sacked in 2009 CEO of Telstra Corporation Ltd, gave this a little speech, saying Oz is getting ready for gigabit internet speeds.

      link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ew-ZzNPHMs

      Now back in the real world of reality. Fiber optic passes two million houses and at best under one million are connected. At current connection rates the final connection will be around the last quarter of 2026. Provided the limp rotten spaghetti used by Telstra Corporation is still functional and hasn’t turned to metallic oxide dust.

      One thing for sure Malcolm’s promised MTM mix of 12 Mbps once a day will not be able to deliver this future as promised by Telstra Corporation Ltd in May, 2013.

      link ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seJoSqQoHig

      Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong – these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history. Winston Churchill

  14. I find the Wyatt Roy situation hilarious. It bodes poorly for Australia’s future, but doesn’t an “Innovation Minister” for a conservative party smack of irony? It’s a poisoned chalice. Liberal voters don’t want innovation, conservatives don’t want innovation, they want rock solid stability based on exactly how things are right now, and maybe even a few years ago would be slightly preferable.

    “How I understand the world, based on my upbringing and childhood experiences is how it should be forever more.”

    If you’ve got the right stuff to be a Minister for Innovation then get the f___ out of the Liberal Party. That’s why Malcolm is such a splinter in the finger of the outspoken Liberal right. Not that he’s innovative, but he appears to be slightly more at home with technology and doesn’t froth at the mouth when mentioning climate change.

  15. What chance did the tech industry had of getting more premises connected via fibre when even prominent sections of the industry strongly favour the Libs (http://www.afr.com/technology/tech-sector-says-malcolm-turnbull-can-win-back-public-support-20160707-gq0cgl). Putting aside the Fin’s love of Malcolm, we have a majority or sampled ‘tech entrepreneurs’ fawning in their praise for the Father of Fraudband.

    Whose ‘industry leaders’ would ever reject billions of dollars of investment that would provide a springboard for its future? The mining industry certainly didn’t when the resources tax was proposed; they mobilised and launched a $20 million campaign against Labor. As much as you may disagree with that outcome, they at least we able to provide a united front and put their money on the line for what would benefit them.

    Just like turkeys voting for Christmas, Australians blew their chance to have 21st Century communications earlier this month. And it wasn’t just the ones too lazy or ignorant about broadband voting for this outcome.

    • Just 2M more on FTTP sometime between now and 2022 does not define ‘Australians blew their chance to have 21st Century communications earlier this month’.

      • At least that’d be 2 million more using 21st century comms rather than 20th century!

        I’d say David’s comment was a lot more accurate than yours ;o)

    • what does 21st century communications matter if its congested by all the illegal immigrants labor let loose into the country willy nilly?
      as usual, the losers want to claim the election is all about 1 policy. it wasn’t and anyone who thinks it is shouldn’t be allowed to vote. their doctor should stop them.

      • “what does 21st century communications matter if its congested by all the illegal immigrants labor let loose into the country willy nilly?”

        Wow, ..thank god, you’re EX-Military.

        I wouldn’t want a dumbass like you still actively handling big weapons &/or setting military policy or planning operations.

        I think you’ve been hazed too hard in the past maybe, or had one too many bullets to the head.

        Oh-no, the illegUL immigrUntz haZ congested my internetZ ..[insert cute kitteh pic] ..Bwahahahaha! XD

        I assume you’ve gotten used to seeing doctors re; sanity, hence your end of post reference… Keep seeing yours, even though the military may no longer fund the bill & you may need to rely on Medicares’ help, something the Liberals’ DO wish to ultimately privatise, but by stealth, Salami tactics.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_tactics

        Later, RIPP.

        • RIPP insults everyone who disagrees with him. again. I stopped reading your post after the first two lines since the rest clearly wasn’t going to be worth anyones time.
          you should learn to summarize

          • J

            You’ve obviously come here to troll, not conduct meaningful comms related correspondence…

            *golfclap*

            So please don’t have the audacity to then sob, when you are treated accordingly.

          • J,

            Don’t worry about it, this lot carries enormous chips on their shoulders after Labor lost in 2013, and ‘someone has to pay’.

            The problem is that Labor lost again this month, so the chips are even bigger, so what to do for the next three years in a desperate attempt to try and stay relevant?

            You can expect the abuse volume to be turned up to max, because ‘someone has to pay’.

          • Chips, ROFL…

            I just enjoy humiliating you parrots and your moronic contradictory, hypocritical comments.

            Such as, alain’s (Reality’s) greatest hits…

            “The NBN (FTTP) can’t help but be a success because it’s a monopoly.”

            Then only 2 weeks after saying the above…

            “The (FTTP) NBN will fail, like HFC failed before it, as people don’t want and won’t need better than ADSL speeds, now or into the future”

            Then tell us how great HFC is, as you do now and also tell us how fast it can go with the new DOCSIS…

            PRICELESS stupidity…

            I await the detour signs, goal post moving and lame excuses. But the best part… we “both know” it’s what you said, don’t we?

            So please keep this priceless material coming.

            You’re welcome

          • LOL @ J

            J Quote: “I stopped reading your post after the first two lines since the rest clearly wasn’t going to be worth anyones time.”

            The 1st 2 lines of my post were still parts of what you said previously that I was quoting.

            F.T.W. … Bwahahaha XD

            Later, RIPP.

  16. @ alain…

    Please let me condense all of your comments from last week (when the election was in limbo)..

    *crickets*

    Now let me condense all of your comments so far this week (now that it’s clear the Coalition will govern).

    Ha ha, fuck you all, fuck the NBN.. we won… add vaguely associated comms drivel with standard contradictions.

    :/ unbelievable

    You’re welcome.

  17. The election is over, and Fibre to the Node is here to stay:

    And None of your(Renai LeMay) Lies and miss information meant a thing.

    • Is it Opposite Day? Or is this Chris Schneider just a giant ignorant cock-sucker,(no offence meant for homos, or girls that value good nutrition).

      Even normal Libshills around here, atleast, show a little respect for the site & Renais’ work.

      Later, RIPP :)

  19. A point I’ve not seen raised. It was parroted a number of times by Murdoch outlets I suspect.
    Uncertain times, the Brexit will lend support to a Turnbull led government.
    … how convenient he called an election, for a date immediately after the Brexit vote had been decided to be held. Business as usual I guess, there’s likely been war’s created or participated in for the same reasons.

    I’m very seriously reconsidering/replanning the next decade or so, from building my farm business into retirement and future generations… to tailoring the business with a view for sale and subsequent emigration.. maybe to New Zealand. Time to reverse the Kiwi flow. Australia has no future vision, and rapidly diminishing prospects.
    Property plans also no longer include trenching conduit to the front gate/pit for future fibre deployment. Hit the shallow (10cm deep) copper ten years ago, landlines long dead and could only support 28k dialup (RAM8) anyhow.

    • Hi SBD,

      “Uncertain times, the Brexit will lend support to a Turnbull led government.
      … how convenient he called an election, for a date immediately after the Brexit vote had been decided to be held. Business as usual I guess, there’s likely been war’s created or participated in for the same reasons.”

      People seem less inclined to kick out governments involved in new active wars in the main English speaking nations, so I’ve heard & the logic behind the idea makes sense.

      [You need stability of government during times of crisis; eg. wars, terrorism etc..]

      So obviously the U.S.A., love any new conflict prior to elections & am sure for Iraq, Little Johnny Howard was super anxious to be involved,(wouldn’t care to challenge the intellegence reports, just so long as there was enough in them to get into the war).

      Liberals under Abbott & Turnball couldn’t seem to find a decent new war, so seemed to be pushing/hoping for some at-home terrorist action, or some dumb people with a few guns, or explosives, they could pretend were terrorists, as opposed to just the usual unstable, or mentally challenged emotionally/socially, people all countries have.

      If an attack happended, or looked like a terrorist attack Liberals would love it behind closed doors, 10+ more years of Liberals with power & bigger pay packets.

      Afterall, if Liberals ever cared one-iota for the nations future, FTTP would be installed, not FTTN.

      Liberals could’ve just run with the bs of better economic management & positively tweaked out the Labor initiated NBN,(with FTTP) & blame any cost blowouts on Labor,(they do that now, even if not Labors fault anyhow).

      But alas, Liberals hate Labor & will spite the nation so-as to stick-it to Labor & gain government, to get the bigger pay packet, perks & satisfy their born-to-rule mentallity.

      Later, RIPP.

      • Happy you got that off topic political Liberal hate rant off your chest? so back to what the discussion as per a tech site like Delimiter and the headline is supposed to be about.

        The election is over, and Fibre to the Node is here to stay

        Head-in-the-sand until 2019?

        • Hint alain:

          “You” aren’t compelled to keep your head in the sand until 2019?

          However if you choose to continue to do so, then call Mr Guinness and you’ll probably have the head in sand world record from 2007-2019…

          Well done.

          You’re welcome.

        • “Happy you got that off topic political Liberal hate rant off your chest?”
          If you insist on being a tool, at least address SBD. RIPPs reply to SBD was clearly on topic. The topic as set by SBD.

          Moreover, who the fuck are you to police on track discussion, anyway?

          • Moreover, who the fuck are you to police on track discussion, anyway?

            I believe a “Nailed it!” is in order :o)

          • @ Hotcakes

            alain… “Happy you got that off topic political Liberal hate rant off your chest?”

            Would that be the opposite to his perpetual commenting style of – “off topic Liberal deep throat rants”…?

        • I have Fibre to the Premise at my place, can you explain what benefits I’d have if I move to this Fibre to the Node option?

        • The election is over, and Fibre to the Node is here to stay

          Only for those that don’t already have better tech, but you already know that, right Alian ;o)

      • “Uncertain times, the Brexit will lend support to a Turnbull led government.
        … how convenient he called an election”

        LMAO

        Millions of Brits didn’t even know what they were deciding on, misguided by the tabloids. They suddenly realized their big mistake when global financial markets reacted and now the idiots call for a second EU Referendum.

        A petition signed by 4.1 million has now forced the issue to be debated in Parliament.

        http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36777494

        Stay tuned for the 5th September!

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