NBN election: Labor polling voters on Coalition’s NBN performance

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news The Australian Labor Party has started directly calling voters to ask whether the Abbott/Turnbull Government’s handling of the National Broadband Network will influence how they vote at the upcoming Federal Election, in a sign Labor sees it as a key election issue.

Labor’s original version of the NBN saw a new-universal build of Fibre to the Premises infrastructure around Australia. However, the Coalition under Prime Ministers Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull has substantially changed the model for the NBN, re-using technically inferior and legacy copper and HFC cable infrastructure as part of a controversial ‘Multi-Technology Mix’.

Labor has strongly attacked Turnbull on the issue since he became Prime Minister in September last year, aided by a prolonged spate of leaks from within the NBN company itself which have outlined substantial problems with the MTM model, initiated by Turnbull in his previous role as Communications Minister.

Now Delimiter has been told by a reader, known to the journalist and residing in the Federal seat of Cowan in Western Australia that Labor has started polling voters directly on whether the NBN will influence their vote.

This reader received a call from an automated interactive Voice Response (IVR) system which identified the call as being done by the Western Australian branch of the Labor Party. The call gave the local contact number for that branch.

After getting the reader’s details and organic voting preference, the call then asked specifically how the reader felt about the Government’s handling of/approach to the National Broadband Network, asking them to give a rating on a scale of one (very good) to five (poor) to determine how they felt about the issue.

The reader was then asked whether the issue would influence their vote at the next Federal Election.

Labor MPs in key areas have recently heavily targeted the Coalition over the NBN issue.

For example, Federal MP Alanna MacTiernan, who announced in February that she would not be contesting the 2016 election, has regularly heavily criticised the Coalition over its management of the NBN in her seat of Perth in Western Australia.

Similarly, Labor is heavily targeting the seat of Braddon in Tasmania over the issue, where the sitting Liberal member, Brett Whitely, has struggled to explain to the local population why they are scheduled to receive only a satellite-based NBN collection, despite having previously been promised fibre broadband in the area.

The news is not the first time that the NBN has been considered by the major political parties to be a significant election issue.

For example, a landmark report handed down in July 2011 by former Howard Minister Peter Reith into the Coalition’s loss in the 2010 Federal Election highlighted a failure to adequately respond to Labor’s flagship NBN plan as a key reason for losing valuable votes, especially in the sensitive Tasmanian electorate, which was slated to receive the network before the rest of the nation.

During the 2013 Federal Election, both Labor and the Coalition distributed extensive election material, much of it misleading, attacking each other’s NBN policy.

On this week’s Q&A program on the ABC, Labor MP Ed Husic said Australia was currently going to an election based on a thing that not many people talk about — the resurrection of the Australian Building and Construction Commission.

“We’re not going to an election talking about the things that people really want to see done — the NBN,” he said.

opinion/analysis
It seems Labor considers the NBN issue serious enough to make it a major issue in the Federal Election campaign. I agree that this is a serious weak point for the Prime Minister and the Coalition in general. It will be interesting to see how Labor exploits that weak point.

230 COMMENTS

  1. It seems Labor considers the NBN issue serious enough to make it a major issue in the Federal Election campaign.

    Good!!!

    TurnCoat destroying the NBN and wasting billions of dollars on his short term obsolete white elephant should be brought to the electorates attention as much as possible!

    TurnCoat is not fit to lead this country!!!

    • People died for this country: the baby boomers threw it away for a paper profit they themselves wouldn’t even spit on in ten years time!!

      The bloke from NY on QandA the other night gave the game away: WE ARE OFFCIALLY A GLOBAL JOKE… WE ARE THE INTERNETS BIGGEST EMOTICON!

      Bye Bye Side-show-Mal methinks: this has to end !!!!

      • Can we please stop blaming baby boomers. It’s not baby boomers, it’s the rich in every generation. Those that want more at the expense of the rest.Its a weak excuse, like the rubbish about big spending retirees wasting their super to then go on the pension. It’s an urban myth, divide and conquer strategy.
        As for the NBN as a baby boomer I’ve been marching in the streets about our pathetic NBN, also Gonski, Health care, Medicare, refugees … most of those around me have been my age 65 and older

        • You are right Christine.

          But the Baby Boomers are the ones primarily voting Liberal. I am constantly arguing with my folks lately.

          NBN, Climate, Jobs etc.

          And the argument almost always boils down to “I don’t see why we have to pay” or “Why should we bankrupt ourselves” etc.

          Of course it is all coming home to roost now. Overspend on NBN now greater than original cost for a lesser network, The Barrier Reef dying off, industries offshoring, stupid expenditure and reliance on a cyclical industry, new industries being missed, etc etc

          • You forgot the LPA’s economic vandalism as well. While their revenues are dropping (mostly from the resource wind down and them not sorting out corporate tax avoidance) they have increased their spending (backing their usual favorite pork barrel methods) which has tripled the deficit.

            And Malcolm’s latest brain fart? $114b on a HSR link between Sydney and Melbourne.

            So spending $114b on Sydney and Melbourne is OK, but (and using their own cooked numbers) ~$80b on Australian wide FttP infrastructure was too much???

            What a pack of peanuts…

          • Rizz the fast train thought bubble has already been popped – Btw, saw this on twitter today:

            Idea’s Boom:

            1/ Malcolm has an idea
            2/ Boom, it’s gone!

            :-D

            It’s just a shame that the MtM thought bubble didnt evaporate within 48 hours like it deserved to!

          • Why spend any time at all on HSR anymore when there are Hyperloop and ET3. The details of implementing Hyperloop are all pluses. Get Elon Musk involved and the cost will be 10%, $11 billion or below and I’m confident he will succeed.

    • +1 It seems the ABC has “censored” all NBN only posts and only left the 3 that covered the NBN plus at least one other topic.

      • I covered the NBN plus one other topic (ABC censoring the issue). Think they’ll censor the issue? :)

        EDIT for posterity
        Posting here for two intertwined issues. I hear the ABC is deleting posts referencing the NBN.

        Australias largest ever, most expensive infrastructure project requires constant vigilance. That is an issue, it will always be an issue until its completion.

        The ABC censoring discussion on the issue, including reporters spending years on articles with nothing but facts presented therein, happenings of which have been abundantly evident since late 2013, is unthinkable and unacceptable. Australia does not need another biased mainstream media outlet and does not need to PAY the ABC to report he said/she said ‘journalism’ like every other outlet. If the ABC can’t gets it act straight with regards to their reporting methods, their funding should be erased.

  2. As indeed it should. I have serious anger issues over the Coalition’s scuttling of the all-fibre NBN. It was an egregiously stupid move for the Australian economy, a tremendously thoughtless one economically. The whole idea was to replace the copper infrastructure, increasingly becoming more of a green stain than anything resembling decent communications media. The poor speed is hurting us directly and financially — for example, our eldest is a professional illustrator, and loses work because it takes too long to upload proofs to clients. The auto maker for whom I work is having trouble delivering content to its dealership network, and the list goes on. I hate living and working in a technological backwater. Australia may be the best country to live, but we’re rapidly becoming a third-world economy, and that blame lies squarely on the lap of the LNP leadership. Vote elsewhere!

  3. “It seems Labor considers the NBN issue serious enough to make it a major issue in the Federal Election campaign.”

    I disagree. To me it seems Labor doesn’t know what to make of it. That’s why they’re polling. If they considered it a major issue they wouldn’t be asking people if they cared.

    And the cynic in me says Labor only giving a shit so they can fling mud at Turnbull and improve their own election chances. Not to do something good. Because if they wanted to do something good, to improve our social and economic outlook, they’d be full steam ahead with a full FTTP rollout.

    Self-absorbed power hunger wankers. March the lot of them into the sea I say.

    • I agree Bruce…

      It seems once bitten twice shy in regards to trying to roll out the “best” network for Australia and Australian’s (how dare they)… and the associated flack from a very defensive and hate filled MSM and equally difficult political foes.

      So as you say, instead of the opposition saying, we will revert back to FTTP, it does indeed seem like a fishing expedition to determine whether they go the best avenue again or whether they simply adopt the MTM shit pile.

      • While I agree that FTTP is the best avenue for the future, the problem is they do have to inherit the MTM initially, so their asking people how they feel about it is just doing their due diligence regarding the NBN.

        You cannot formulate the best path forward without having all the information.

        Yes, from a technical standpoint, FTTP is the best path forward, but sadly given how political the NBN has become, it doesn’t mean that FTTP is the best path forward ~politically~.

        Besides… They could pull an LNP, and go to the election saying they will support the MTM, then just change it after they get power. Fully costed, ready to go, cheaper, faster, sooner, 25Mbit to all by 2016, anyone?

        • You cannot formulate the best path forward without having all the information.

          Well, that and it’s also a subtle way for them to point out that Malcolms MtM is shite :o)

          • Labor will be spending about 1/3 that the Coalition will be spending on the election, if your short of cash you want bang for you buck, that’s the reason for the surveys.

          • @Tinman_au, it appear that push polling is banned in Australia, if you think it otherwise it’s your civic duty to inform the appropriate authorities or be accused of being an accessory after the fact and may be held liable for obstruction of justice or you could just call it a survey/poll with zero ramifications.

            (The Australian Electoral Act, as amended, appears to ban push-polling, although this term is not mentioned specifically. Section 329 states: “A person shall not, during the relevant period in relation to an election under this Act, print, publish or distribute, or cause, permit or authorize to be printed, published or distributed, any matter or thing that is likely to mislead or deceive an elector in relation to the casting of a vote … Publish includes publish by radio, television, internet or telephone.)
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_poll

          • appears to ban push-polling

            They don’t sound too sure about it though, do they?

            Also, an election hasn’t been called….they can do what they like ;o)

          • Also, an election hasn’t been called….they can do what they like ;o)

            It actually doesn’t say an election has to be called, it’s been written in a way that’s hard to pin down, it says…..A person shall not, during the relevant period in relation to an election…….. it would depend on what’s interrupted as a relevant period and that would be up to the courts.

      • I’ll agree with Ronin.

        There is simply no way to go full FttP again. Too many long term contracts. Too much old and new copper has been bought and needs to break even of make a return else the budgets going to get slammed with significant red ink (if MTM write off and take a loss etc). HFC is basically locked in for ~10 years etc.

        You can’t make that massive change for a third time as the delays will kill it if nothing else will.

        At best labour can tweak where contracts allow and hopefully provide better management and mandates to NBN™.

        • They could go with a form of Scenario 4 from the SR, and as much as Reality likes to claim my basic analysis is “cooked” or “fixed” or somehow made up (he has yet to actually show HOW it is made up with evidence), despite using the figures from the CP16, without including FTTdp at all, it is definitely a technically superior way of rolling out the NBN while being stuck with HFC in the HFC area.

          • Your cooked up Scenario 4 is not the solution, and I have explained in detail on a number of occasions why it is so.

            You are just engaging the well worn MtM bashers strategy when the facts are presented, pretend they don’t exist, and then employ on most occasions the well used fall back, personal attack and abuse.

          • Q. Scenario 4 that you had never heard of until R0nin explained it to you?
            A. Yes

            Q. The scenrio 4 which blows holes in your already Swiss cheese, subservient blitherings?
            A. Yes

            I reiterate, you should start every one of your fictitious comments with once upon a time.

            You’re welcome

          • “and I have explained in detail on a number of occasions why it is so.”

            What by saying I can’t math out Scenario 4 because I haven’t also mathed out Scenarios 1 – 3?

            I can’t use Scenario 4 because its in the SR and I can’t use CP16 figures for it?

            I can’t use Scenario 4 just because it has the highest percentage of FTTP over the MTM whilst still using HFC?

            None of those actually say anything. None of them.

            Explain to me, in simple terms, what is wrong with working out how much scenario 4 would cost using the figures we have from the CP16? And WHY that is then cooked?

            If that is cooked, then surely the MTM pricing in CP16 is equally cooked? As they took Scenario 6 from the SR, and have applied the new figures to it, how is that any different to what I did using the percentages from Scenario 4 as a base instead?

      • @Rizz, Ronin, Tinman, GongGav, Simon

        IF everyone agrees with Bruce then why argue for the politically dead full fibre solution?

        Wouldn’t everyone be better off focusing on real problems such as the long term affordability of the NBN for the end user?

          • I think most Pro-FTTP folks like myself would be quite happy with a wholesale switch to FTTdp for many many very obvious reasons.

            I think what you are saying here is close to the truth, only because most that are pro-FttP are logical people and know FttDp would be making the best of a bad situation the coalition clowns caused with their destructive idiocy. I can only speak for myself however. I think because logically and obviously (since FttP is the end goal) it would make the transition to FttP easier compared to FttN. I still wouldn’t go so far as to endorse it however as I believe there still needs to be a clear plan to roll out FttP to the majority (51% or higher) of the fixed line footprint.

        • It is politically dead, because the NBN has turned political by your favourite party currently in power.

          It shouldn’t have ever been turned into a political tool, and if it wasn’t, we wouldn’t be having this conversation, because FTTP is technologically better than the MTM.

          You may not see the difference, but we do not argue for FTTP for political reasons, but for technical ones. FTTP might be politically dead, but as we are not arguing politics, hence why we keep arguing for it.

          Regardless of the reality presented to us by political parties. We choose not to just accept that which the politicians wish to shove down our throats.

        • @KingForce

          It’s never been about parties/politics for me. I’ve been working in IT for around 30 years now, I just want to see a good technical solution for our future needs and positioning Australia to be at least half way to being able to compete globally, and FttDP ticks that box, FttP ticks that box, but FttN doesn’t tick that box.

          I don’t care which party runs with it, but the party that backs at least FttDP takes the NBN off the table of my “problem issues”.

          I also agree with a DOCSIS 3.1 solution for mid-term (20 years or so) in HFC areas

        • And, of course, this is the bit I 100% agree with Bruce on:

          Self-absorbed power hunger wankers. March the lot of them into the sea I say.

          Both major parties are full of themselves, and they probably will continue that way while the ALP have factional picks for pre-selections (also the LPA to a lessor extent) and the LPA are a pack of corrupt bastards in the pocket of miners and major corps.

        • @ Kingforce.

          *sigh*

          Sad or hypocritical really, when you the politically faithful, will describe FTTP (the most universally current technology for fixed) dead and support actually dead copper based FTTN and cable TV based HFC, simply to suit your politics.

          Here’s what other right leaning politicians from abroad have to say (even back in 2013)…

          http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/11/copper-wire-technology-whose-time-has-passed.html

          Yes we agreed with Bruce, not that FTTP was dead (your typically warped spin), but that toxic politics/MSM in Australia, could actually shoot down the best option for Australia and Australian’s (including you) because it did not fit the political agenda of the Abbott opposition and more importantly the greed/profits of their accompanying MSM backers.

          As such would those on the receiving end of the incessant wrath for introducing FTTP, have the balls to do it again and face the wrath for daring to give Aussies the best and say fuck MSM and their greed “again”?

          As such the jury is out…

          Remember even our PM and the CEO of NBN™ admit that FTTP is the “end goal”, (but a few minions here will never cede…LOL).

          Sadly however, because of the successful Abbott negativity around everything (remember the Nats originally supported FTTP – iirc, even before Labor) Mal’s party will never be able to admit anything the others did was actually correct, including the “end goal” FTTP.

          But the most humorous part in all of this…. they adopted FTTN, err FRAUDBAND … ?

          • Last paragraph I said “most humorous”, actually should have said “saddest” instead.

        • “why argue for the politically dead full fibre solution?”

          Hmmm…whistling in the dark? Full fibre is fast becoming the global norm, I would hardly call it “politically dead”.

          • “It is politically dead”

            I can’t say that I agree (or I don’t know what you mean)…
            As FTTP keeps gaining momentum worldwide, I predict a huge backlash from the “why don’t WE have that” crowd (i.e. most Australians). I look at it as a massive political time-bomb…

          • I will then try to explain what I mean more then.

            I agree with you, that eventually there will be an explosion in Australia of public opinion around FTTP and why Australia doesn’t have it.

            When I say politically dead, I mean, it is currently a dead option for Labor, they won’t pick it up as their policy again (unless the Liberals come out and say they are sticking with FTTN) and even then, Labor will likely just then announce FTTdp.

          • When I say politically dead, I mean, it is currently a dead option for Labor, they won’t pick it up as their policy again (unless the Liberals come out and say they are sticking with FTTN) and even then, Labor will likely just then announce FTTdp.

            Bill Morrow says if Labor want to switch back to FttP, then nbn™ is ready to switch straight away without having a delay like the switch from FttP to FttN.

            FttDP would fit with their “more fibre” comments, but wouldn’t rule out that they’d also just start using FttP rather than FttN for areas that don’t have plans yet, as that wouldn’t cause a delay.

          • Tinman, I think you’re right.

            More fibre fits with FTTdp, as there is “technically” more fibre used ;-)

            I could see them running with FTTdp where FTTP is too expensive, and FTTP otherwise (outside of the HFC area because lets face it, whether HFC is or isn’t up to the task, NBN Co are pretty well stuck with it at this point).

          • Yep. And FttDP would allow “real” FoD too as they’d only need to run fibre 20-60 odd meters, so more fibre there as well.

            I agree on the HFC stuff too. When it first got brought up, Labor was right to overbuild it (D3.1 was still just in the lab then and D3.0 wasn’t really that compelling compared to full fibre (FF)). The fact that D3.1 is actually out now, and being rolled out in the US means HFC has comparable speeds as current FF for another 10-20 odd years (though it’ll be interesting to see what reports from the “wild” will be about it, rather than the trials).

          • “why argue for the politically dead full fibre solution?”

            Hmmm…whistling in the dark? Full fibre is fast becoming the global norm, I would hardly call it “politically dead”.

            It’s like the GST: in the 90s I saw John Howard say these words: “There is no way that the GST will ever be part of our policy. Never ever.” But then a few years later the GST was on for young and old, implemented by the same guy and Costello.

            It will be back.

        • then why argue for the politically dead full fibre solution?

          Because the politicians are OUR slaves. We are not their slaves.

        • @KingForce

          Long term affordability directly relates to the chosen Tech and the longer you stretch things the more sense FttP makes. 93% is gone in anything but theory, it might get there in another 20 years when it turns out we need to do this again but get it right. Until then those copper assets aka HFC will need to pay for themselves and ideally make a return.

          Why argue when we know its no longer possible? because if we don’t it will happen again. We also hope that sheer lunacy and mismanagement might end up with someone somewhere sometime being held to account.

          Take SA we have/had a 1 way freeway that reverses direction every 12 hours because the polliticians of the day wanted to trim the funds to afford their pet project (another white elephant). Queue several years after its finished … turns out it was a bad idea (blind/hidden exit that backs up into the fast lane thats running downhill because you exit to the RHS … to name but 1 issue) and we’re now spending as much if not more again to put the 1 extra lane in and do it right the 2nd time.

    • I expect Rizz is onto something with the once bitten mentality, but can you blame them? They have used the NBN on their election platform for 3 elections, and apart from two elections ago when it became THE deciding issue, it really hasnt appeared to be effective.

      To put it another way, why did the Lib’s get in with such a watered down policy? Was it because some of that policy had merit to the voters? Or that they just didnt care any more?

      I’m not sure going straight back to a full FttP rollout would deliver what we all hope, and as a result Labor is looking for a best case scenario.

      I expect the rollout to change after the election, with the campaign laying out how its going to change. Its clear that the original ‘plan’ the Lib’s had has failed worse than Labor’s did, so whats their plan to turn that around? All the rhetoric aside, all politicians can smell when their policies go on the stink, but its usually only election time where they feel justified in mass changes.

      If both go with FTTdp (as I expect), where are we as voters?

      • “If both go with FTTdp (as I expect), where are we as voters?”

        Left with deciding the parties based on their other policies ;-).

        For the LNP, stating their policy will be going with FTTdp will be the safest for them, as it leaves Labor either saying they will do the same or go back to FTTP. If they say they will go back to FTTP, then the LNP will be able to throw at them the “Look what they did last time with FTTP, blah blah blah”. So, if the LNP announce FTTdp, I would daresay Labor would say they support FTTdp, and then go to the election focusing on other policies instead.

      • “To put it another way, why did the Lib’s get in with such a watered down policy? Was it because some of that policy had merit to the voters? Or that they just didnt care any more?”

        LNP along with MSM lied to the public of Australia who bought it hook line and sinker.

      • “To put it another way, why did the Lib’s get in with such a watered down policy?”

        They got it because voting in compulsory and the majority of voters don’t look at policies and made their decision based on the continual MSM bombardment of how bad Labor were and the Debt and Deficit disaster ™

        • To use Darrens response, as the rest are generally the same, thats kinda the point. Its not necessarily the big issue we think it is, and as a political party, they kinda want to win the election.

          For Labor, pushing an old policy might just be interpreted as being out of ideas, while canvassing the community can be shown they are listening.

          Personally, who ever announces FTTdp first will be ahead if its an issue, as the second party will be seen as copying.

          We WANT this to be a deciding issue, and perhaps it will be. But so far it was an issue only becuase of a hung parliment, and a deciding factor because of the independents.

          • Likely the deciding issue will be how bad Turnbull’s brain farts are, and with this state tax idea he’s let loose a ripper.

          • A lot of Aussies think it’s important, but they’re more worried about even bigger issues, like the economy, health, education and just plain keeping their jobs.

            It probably rates around the same as foreign policy and defence, which people care about, but not enough to swing their vote.

          • Likely the deciding issue will be how bad Turnbull’s brain farts are, and with this state tax idea he’s let loose a ripper.

            Hell yeah….never heard of any other party winning on a platform of cutting company tax, while increasing personal tax, while half of the companies aren’t actually paying any tax anyway!!

            I mean seriously, W.T.F….

          • Sorry to veer off topic here, but yes it all beggars belief TM.

            I don’t like to talk politics, as I am not a member or supporter of any political organisation… I simply support a fair go for the most vulnerable Aussies and believe FTTP would be advantageous for Australia (regardless of who delivers it) – period.

            But I do keep an eye on politics to make sure my vote counts as much as one vote can (here in my bushy, FTTP free, safe Lib electorate) … by subscribing to emails from federal and state Libs & Labor, as well as the federal Greens ;)

            So from my understanding Tony Abbott was elected on (amongst other things) being able to rein in the “debt & deficit disaster”. A disaster which is now apparent, never actually existed. Debt and deficit which, I believe, has in fact gotten “hugely worse since TA was elected”.

            Yet having talked Australia’s economy down in opposition prior to Sept ’13, they now preach to the world how superior our economy is, even though it’s now far worse than it was when it was supposedly disastrous?

            So what did they do when first elected?

            Abolished two revenue streams? Carbon price and mining super profits tax at the big end of town, to reduce revenue and exacerbate the problem, which err never existed anyway, but now does?

            This isn’t supporting Labor, just saying it as it is… but in saying that, I guess such brilliance *sarcasm* also explains why we also are rolling out FRAUDBAND/Nodafail™

            :/

          • Yeah, not going to get started on that state tax brain fart. I work in tax, its a doozy.

            As for Abbott, I said from day one that he was dangerous to Australia, and that is why. His data was wrong, his statements were wrong, and his slogans were wrong. Yet nobody did anything to stop him saying them, and in the end it worked.

            And people got what they wished for – a lunatic in charge. Hopefully, lesson learned.

          • So from my understanding Tony Abbott was elected on (amongst other things) being able to rein in the “debt & deficit disaster”. A disaster which is now apparent, never actually existed. Debt and deficit which, I believe, has in fact gotten “hugely worse since TA was elected”.

            Yep. It’s almost like Abbott was a prophet and was actually channeling what they were actually going to do (create a far worse debt and deficit disaster than Labor had).

            @GongGav

            Totally agree. And the problem is, while Malcolm is busy running with every policy Abbott had (and even still taking policy direction from the Abbott backbench), MT is just as bad, possibly even worse, because he comes across to the voter as being reasonable…

      • “why did the Lib’s get in with such a watered down policy?”

        Because:
        A) the last election was all about holding Labor to account for their dysfunctional backstabbing and back room dealing, which was suggesting to the electorate that Labor were incompetent and too focused on internal political maneuvering to be governing for the people. They got a kicking because the electorate didn’t trust them.
        B) The NBN was very poorly understood by the vast majority of the electorate. Most people didn’t and probably still don’t understand what it’s for. They figured as long as it was getting faster, why spend billions more gold plating something that was going to be perfectly adequate for at least ten years? They didn’t see a problem with Malcolm’s approach and didn’t understand enough about the subject to realise they were being sold a lie. Hell, even Renai endorsed their plans.
        C) Very stupidly and naively, a lot of people trust politicians and the political system, because they simply cannot fathom a reality in which we are being screwed legally by parasitic sociopaths. I spoke to a lot of people who dismissed out of hand the notion that the LNP would seriously undermine the NBN – they thought it would be mostly left alone and only tweaked to be delivered more efficiently and cheaper. This also plays to their overall assessment of the Labor party as untrustworthy due to their dysfunctional factional warfare – if they could be screwing up the Prime Ministership so horrendously they were clearly incompetent to the core, so the NBN had serious issues because Labor were obviously clusterfucks.

        Labor need to go into this as a healed party. If they could pass some sort of law criminalising factional preselection and internal party influence they would probably have a landslide win. Failing that they need to convince people they are on the ball and imminently trustworthy. Playing political games with words will do them no good – they have to rise above that and be 100% factual or people will dismiss them as too uncertain. Mind you, the LNP have been comprehensively dishonest thought their entire term, so hammering that message home will do Labor well.

        Will the NBN be an election issue? From the perspective of a trust issue, then it could be. As an economic argument I think that would have substantial impact. But simply as an infrastructure issue? It is too easy to parry to FTTdp without actually committing to anything tangible, so I think that is a flawed and failed direction to take.

    • Bruce, you seem to have forgotten Labor is in opposition. When they advocated fibre, the electorate was not passionate enough to vote them into government.

      Labor needs to know where to spend its campaign dollars. That should be obvious.

      • It is not just votes. 79% of customers on the NBN are not prepared to pay for speeds faster than FTTN. Only 16% (down 3% in 12 months) are prepared to pay for 100Mbps and RSPs are not selling the faster speeds that are available.

        • And 50/12 how’s that going for you Mathew?

          And the 1%/1Gbps by 2026?

          And MTM never a mention of the current shambles, eh?

          Kudos for at least now trying to use some (supposedly) actual figures (well we’ll take your word).

        • Actually we don’t know that.

          We know there is a massive drop of about 10% in the lowest 12/1 tier from the original fttp only estimate.
          They appear to have moved up to the 25/5 tier.

          We have also had a drop in the 100/40 tier. Of around 7 percent from the original fttp only estimate. These also appear to be moving to the 25/5 tier.
          However we do not have a 50/20 tier anymore. Which affects this, as someone who is not willing to pay for 100/40 may be willing to pay for 50/20. Also we have a demographics issue. That 100/40 and above tier were always in the high end market. Those who were able to cover the cost through business reasons or via disposable income. These are heavily affected by which areas have been rolled out. At this point the areas with the highest concentrations of the assumed high end users have not been rolled out to fttp.

          Half year financial NBN data for 2016. Does not yet include FTTN connections.
          “As at 31 December 2015, 16 per cent of
          nbn’s fixed line services used a 100/40
          Mbps* wholesale speed tier (31 December
          2014: 19 per cent), 45 per cent used a 25/5
          Mbps* wholesale speed tier (31 December
          2014: 38 per cent), and 33 per cent used
          a 12/1 Mbps* wholesale speed tier
          (31 December 2014: 38 per cent).”

          • Ooops… sorry 12% drop from the estimate in the Lowest tier.

            Also note there is 6% of the population that is unaccounted for. I am curious as to why they are missing.

            I also need to point out that the ARPU is $43 which is greater than the $39 estimate from 2012 corporate plan. The 2014 corporate plan did not contain an estimate.

          • Some ISPs still offer 50/20, but yes, you’re right in general, some of the biggest ISPs don’t, and that could account for the drop from 100Mbit down to 25Mbit, if people don’t know 50/20 is an option.

          • The cynic in me wants to say they don’t report it, so they can have people like Mathew spewing the same garbage as if it “proves” people don’t need/want more than 25Mbit as they don’t report those on 50Mbit, so they get lumped in at 25.

            Internode and Skymesh both still have 50/20 on their sites as available.

            TPG/Telstra/Belong/iiNet don’t offer it (as far as I can tell, at least not on their websites).

          • The ‘same garbage’ is you put it is from the latest audited NBN Half Year Report, the fact you and other MtM bashers don’t like it presented to you because it hurts your eyes doesn’t make it garbage.

          • So Reality, are you saying the reason why they don’t report people on 50/20 is because there is nobody using it then?

            Try actually reading and comprehending one of my posts someday.

          • With 78% on 12/1 and 25/5 you think 50/20 is a key statistic?

            BTW 50/20 is about 4%.

          • “With 78% on 12/1 and 25/5 you think 50/20 is a key statistic?”

            Whether it is a “key statistic” or not, is irrelevant.

            They should be reporting ALL of their tiers, unless you’re fine with a GBE hiding information from the public?

          • They should be reporting ALL of their tiers, unless you’re fine with a GBE hiding information from the public?

            They aren’t a GBE, they are the technical department of the LPA…

          • The reason for the drop in 12/1Mbps is most likely because Telstra don’t offer this tier. However the 25 Mbps tier is significantly higher than Labor’s predictions and the 100Mbps tier is significantly lower and dropping.

          • The reason for the drop in 12/1Mbps is most likely because Telstra don’t offer this tier. However the 25 Mbps tier is significantly higher than Labor’s predictions and the 100Mbps tier is significantly lower and dropping.

            And that means what exactly to you? Is it just that Labor was wrong, or is there something else?

          • More to the point for FTTP fans now backing the wonders of FTTdp fans, (we love moving goal posts), how do you explain the poor 100/40 figures, if we are going to embrace the digital age we need more customers to embrace it.

            lol

          • More to the point for FTTP fans now backing the wonders of FTTdp fans, (we love moving goal posts), how do you explain the poor 100/40 figures, if we are going to embrace the digital age we need more customers to embrace it.

            How is the nbn™ introducing a new tech, that we think is OK, changing the goal posts? If you have a problem with FttDP, you should complain to them about it.

            how do you explain the poor 100/40 figures, if we are going to embrace the digital age we need more customers to embrace it.

            As many here have complained about (and RSP’s, and Choice, and many other individuals and entities) both the POI and CVC models push the cost up to where the price an RSP needs to charge to make a modest profit, means lower, and even some middle, income families can’t justify the cost of higher tier plans.

            I would like to see nbn™ add a breakdown of tier take up by zone serviced, but I doubt it’ll happen as the LPA doesn’t have a great history of actually adding transparency, or giving Australians the information needed to make an informed decision. Must be that “Born to rule” mentality they have…

          • @ alain,

            Once again due to your childish argumentative, imbecilic ways, I must spoon feed you again.

            You’re welcome…

            You say – “More to the point for FTTP fans now backing the wonders of FTTdp fans, (we love moving goal posts)…”

            Nope, nope, nope (I’ll put it that way as I’m sure it’s one of “your” favs)…

            Let me do the comparisons. Ready…

            Unlike let’s say – YOU… who has said – admit it, go on…

            FTTP can’t help but be a success – FTTP will FAIL like the failed HFC – and now refer to HFC as lucrative HFC… has hypocritically and slimily flip-flopped regularly and faithfully supported whatever the Coalition has said especially FTTN (not FttDp)…

            Here are my views (which will not flip-flop like your ridiculous contradictory positions, I can assure you)

            Also, no need to read between the lines or argue over a word or two …there are no traps, it’s not a loaded comment – WYSIWYG and there are only two simple points (I’ve intentionally made it so easy that even a child can understand it immediately – so you’ll probably get it by about midnight tonight after everyone here explains it to you umpteen times). So please use that one eye and read the points twice, if that helps.

            You’re welcome again…

            1. Given the choice of any form of fixed line comms, my personal choice is and will continue to be FttP. Gasp, regardless of which political party rolls it out.

            2. Given the choice of FttN or FttDp, I would choose FttDp. Gasp again, regardless of which political party rolls it out.

            Wow what a fucking revelation eh?

            So to now dumb it down for you to your lowest common denominator (political love/hatred) and nothing else… if for example Labor choose to return to FttP I will support that move. If Labor choose to stick with FttN and the Coalition decide to go with FttDp or FttP I will support that move.

            It doesn’t change my previous support for FttP in any way whatsoever.

            Anyhoo, silly me trying to correspond rationally with the irrational. I look forward to perhaps the silliest reply ever.

            Always remember alain – “before roads there were no roads” …lol

            You’re welcome.

          • Clarification due to arguable ambiguity (especially when dealing with the pedantic and their semantics) here…

            “If Labor choose to stick with (the current roll out of) FttN and the Coalition decide to go with FttDp or FttP I will support that move.”

            Meaning I would then support the Coalition’s FttDp or FttP ahead of Labor’s FttN…

          • 1. Given the choice of any form of fixed line comms, my personal choice is and will continue to be FttP. Gasp, regardless of which political party rolls it out.

            2. Given the choice of FttN or FttDp, I would choose FttDp. Gasp again, regardless of which political party rolls it out.

            Seems reasonable and logical, acknowledgment of facts regrading roll outs does not necessarily = endorsement either.

            I think the real reason some copper fanboy knuckle draggers are so concerned about FttDp is because it is closer to the fibre end goal than FttN. They are still having a bit if trouble admitting that. Remember I used to say the coalition clowns would have to keep modifying their plan until they came to the FttP conclusion. So now talk of FttDp comes up of course they will lash out, more of that copper they are so fond of is under threat.

          • @HC,

            “Seems reasonable and logical…”

            Unfortunately the people we are corresponding with here, having seen their past record of contradictions, lies, one rule for one/another for the other, etc…

            Don’t understand reasonable and certainly don’t actually do logical, I’m afraid.

            They do as they are told…

          • Of course FTTP fanboys jumping off the FTTP ship after banging on about it since 2008 is good to see but support of FTTdp cannot be done in isolation, it’s part of the MtM model, either Labor or the Coalition.

          • Lol devoid
            Us fanboy even though we support FTTP now that the destruction Malcolm has done to the NBN $29B now $56B to $70B was 2016 now 2020.

            The only way to deliver speeds Malcolm has claimed like a min 25Mbps not up to 25Mbps can only be delivered with FTTdp. Plus the FOD price would be what Malcolm has claimed not the $10K+ in price.

          • “Of course FTTP fanboys jumping off the FTTP ship after banging on about it since 2008 is good to see but support of FTTdp cannot be done in isolation, it’s part of the MtM model, either Labor or the Coalition.”

            I can’t believe I have to explain this… Actually I can believe it, because you’ve shown yourself unable to comprehend the written word…

            But FTTP supporters supporting FTTdp is not the same as not supporting FTTP. I still support FTTP as the best technological option, but with the mess we currently have and are stuck with, returning to full FTTP is going to end up being costlier and costlier with having to deal with paying for maintenance with things like HFC.

            Thus, I am willing to compromise my beliefs downwards to FTTdp because 1) it provides more fibre closer to the premises, 2) it provides great speeds over extremely short copper runs (20-50m) and 3) it provides a REAL situation where FOD for people who need/want it to be able to get it at a reasonable price point and not $10K+ that we have seen multiple times so far.

            But, no, you’ll definitely ignore this and call it “tap dancing” or “moving goal posts”, which is amusing, since you do those far more and can’t even recognise when it is actually happening.

          • it provides a REAL situation where FOD for people who need/want it

            You bring up an interesting point here R0ninX3ph. This is the one issue why I am skeptical the coalition clowns would actually follow through with FttDp. It’s clear from the current FoD debacle that they want to make sure no one actually gets FttP and they want you to pay as much as possible. If FttDp eventuates GimpCo pays for more of the fibre and thus FoD becomes more viable and if more customers take that FoD option it would make the coalition clowns look even more stupid.

          • FoD demand is a figment of FTTP fans imagination it helps to justify the so called need for FTTP, FoD is expensive because FTTP is expensive, no doubt many would prefer FTTP as long as they don’t have to pay for it.

            In the meantime the overwhelming majority of residences are just happy to have a NBN connection of any type, the sooner the better.

          • So devoid charging 10K for 300M FOD when CPP is $3600 for Fttp.

            When we were told it would only be a couple of $K. But then we where told they had a fully costed plan of $29B complete this year.

            Now with figures of $70B coming out what a joke it is.

            Btw it not sooner

          • Btw it not sooner

            Indeed Jason. We keep hearing that with little evidence (none) to support it. Remember it was of absolute paramount importance that FttP roll out be stopped because FttN patchwork would be faster to roll out. IIRC we were promised 25mbps for all by the end of 2016. It is now 2016 by my calender (I just assume the copper fanboy knuckle draggers use a different one) and only 270 days left to complete it. Tick tock.

          • “FoD demand is a figment of FTTP fans imagination it helps to justify the so called need for FTTP, FoD is expensive because FTTP is expensive, no doubt many would prefer FTTP as long as they don’t have to pay for it.”

            I await with baited breath for you to produce your evidence that demand is minimal for FOD.

            Besides, even if it IS minimal, FTTdp is barely more expensive per premises than FTTN, and provides a better technological option with the very real option of cheap upgrades to FTTP in the future when the upgrade is to be done (as even NBN Co and Malcolm admit FTTP is the end game).

          • @ alain

            “In the meantime the overwhelming majority of residences are just happy to have a NBN connection of any type, the sooner the better.”

            PROVE IT?

            You’re welcome.

            @ HC

            Indeed the $70B FRAUDBAND shit pile is slower. Those who would have (yes would have) had FttP are proof that the retrograde joke network is slower and more expensive.

            Also gotta love the way the “mouthy – back to the future 2003 copper cretins” are now distancing themselves from pustulent FttN/FRAUDBAND and already loving and adopting FttDp (after saying it’s not policy yet…lol).

            Those typically contradictory, mindless 24/7 flip-floppers, who were 100% FttN fans, flip-flopping again…

            Ever notices post flip-flop where they land?

            PRICELESS

          • Those who would have (yes would have) had FttP

            Total fantasy, the FTTP rollout at the end in 2013 was so far behind it looked like it was going backwards.

            FTTN has more active residences in five months than FTTP did in three years, FTTP was still ramping up from the longest pilot phase in the history of pilot phases.

          • Lol devoid failed again 30K in 7 months is fast lol

            Now that is want going backwards looks like

          • “FTTN has more active residences in five months than FTTP did in three years, FTTP was still ramping up from the longest pilot phase in the history of pilot phases.”

            Still conveniently ignoring NBN Co having to build the PoI’s and the backhaul network before the FTTP could even work.

            I wonder how far FTTN would be right now had the current management team not walked into all that work having been done for them.

            Nah, thats too inconvenient so we’d best ignore it.

          • Reality and Mathew very deliberately misinterpreting means they deserve no further attention.

            You are putting in a gallant effort but it’s against robots programmed for dishonesty and selective information ad infinitum.

  4. When it comes to LNP and the NBN we should not only vote against them because of it we should be billing them for the waste and expense they caused, and examining who is benefiting from the garbage system they are trying to foist on us and how connected all these parties and groups are.
    Could be a good first case if we should ever get a Federall ICAC

    Stephen

  5. Luke Simpkins, the MP for Cowan, has recently been boasting about his success in improving internet access for certain areas, including where I live.

    This has been in the form of getting Telstra to increase the number of ports at the exchange, and apparently getting them to reduce the line qualification criteria.

    Outstanding stuff.

  6. 79% on fibre have willingly chosen to connect at 25Mbps or slower. This very simple number that should tell Labor the FTTP / FTTN / HFC discussion is likely to have much impact beyond a small minority of voters. Currently 16% (down 3% in the last 12 months) are prepared to pay for 100Mbps and RSPs have determined that close zero people are prepared to pay for more speed than 100Mbps.

    Another key indicator of demand for FTTP is real estate advertisements and I’m yet to see a house advertising FTTP despite actively watching a few suburbs with FTTP. The fact that real estate agents will add in any feature they consider might attract a buyer this suggests to me that people are not actively looking for houses with fibre. Compare this with schooling or transport where these are prominently displayed.

    Labor could argue that it is is nation building, but the average Australian is unlikely to support a nation building plan where a tiny elite (<1% in 2026 will have 1Gbps according to Labor) benefit.

    The ludicrous fact is that if NBN removed speed tiers on FTTN because of the varying speeds based on distance to the exchange that 79% would see a significant increase in speed.

    People need to start at what benefits do we want from the network and from there determine what speeds are the minimum and build a suitable network. Labor did not do this. Labor started planning to build FTTN, but Telstra hindered that plan so they switched to FTTP. However Labor wanted to keep it off budget and same price as ADSL, which meant an convoluted artificial pricing structure with ARPU needing to rapidly grow from $32/month to north of $100. Prior to the 2010 election the announcement 1Gbps Google Fibre, resulted in Labor announcing 1Gbps, but omitting to mention that in 2026 less than 1% would connect at 1Gbps.

    • Considering 65% are choosing the Min up to 25Mbps or more now but the network wont be complete for another 4 years already shows the folly of this network.

      Considering you just have to look at the nbn website to know where fttp is atm.

      And yet you argue for $8B less for a network that does up to 25Mbps

      Yes going from less than 4Mbps for an upto 25Mbps is a significant increase but when you have other nations supplying speeds 100 times faster why would innovation stay here or come here.

      You know the mtm has the exact same convoluted artificial pricing structure which you are charged the same price whether your on fttn hfc or fttp. Also has almost the same %target as labor model. But you fail to see the benefits for just $8B more (Sr of $64B compared to mtm of $56B). The fact the min speeds charge and has been following the same arc that by its complete suggesting people would need 100Mbps as a minimum when this network is complete which it wont even come close to achieving that.

      • > The fact the min speeds charge and has been following the same arc that by its complete suggesting people would need 100Mbps as a minimum when this network is complete which it wont even come close to achieving that.

        If this is a fact then why did Labor’s optimistic NBNCo Corporate Plan overestimate the demand for speed and yet predict that in 2028 close to 50% would still be on 12Mbps?

        The rational person has two choices:
        – Accept Labor’s predictions in the NBNCo Corporate Plan supported by research and backed by actual customer data
        – Accept the unsubstantiated statements of FTTP fanbois

        • Well Mathew the MTM figures are
          12/1 29%
          25/5 27%
          25/10 6%
          50/20 8%
          100/40 30%
          250/100 and above 1%
          And that by 2020 there figures so they must be way off consider it more than the FTTP fanboys figures for 2026 lol.

          But then copper fanboy supporting a $29B oh wait a $41B oh wait $56B atm 4 years behind target $8B less according to the SR than a 1Gbps network for an up to 25Mbps network such great value. But then again the CBA said all we need is 15Mbps by 2023 which adsl2 can deliver.

        • If this is a fact then why did Labor’s optimistic NBNCo Corporate Plan overestimate the demand for speed and yet predict that in 2028 close to 50% would still be on 12Mbps?

          There are actually a lot more on higher plans that they estimated, so how was theirs “optimistic” besides the 100/40 part?

          • Tinman it should be pointed out that the MM is lying.

            The corporate plan predicted 36% on 12/1mbps in 2028 not 50%.

            (Also worth noting it predicted 58% would be on plans 100/40mbps and higher & the plan that would have raised the most revenue would have been the 500/200mbps plan, it would have raised more revenue than all the speed tiers 100/40mbps and lower combined)

          • > There are actually a lot more on higher plans that they estimated, so how was theirs “optimistic”

            The only plan with a higher than estimated number is 25Mbps which is most likely because Telstra don’t offer 12Mbps.

            > besides the 100/40 part?

            If the 100/40Mbps isn’t important then FTTN / HFC shouldn’t be an issue.

          • Well Tin Mathew harps on about FTTP % for 2026 but the MTM % for 2020 are even higher but we don’t see him complaining about them

    • Wow 1%/1Gbps in 2026…

      You even said it twice…lol.

      No 50/12 anymore?

      Some never learn eh?

    • So if the low end estimation of 50% on 12Mbps was wrong, why is suddenly 1% on 1Gbps in 2026 suddenly gospel?

      Either way, we who are pro-best technology available, are always told we are living in the past, living in pre-2013, and then you continually come up with this bollocks….

      Whatever Labor predicted, doesn’t matter. Labor aren’t in power, the Liberals are, and guess how many % are going to be on 1% in 2026 with the MTM? Far, far less than 1%. Guess how many are going to be stuck on sub-100Mbit connections in 2026? A hell of a lot more than will be possible with FTTP.

      But then again, the hailed CBA told us we only need 15Mbit by 2023, so I guess we are fine, amirite?

      • > So if the low end estimation of 50% on 12Mbps was wrong, why is suddenly 1% on 1Gbps in 2026 suddenly gospel?

        20% error margin compared with the error margin on other parts of the NBNCo Corporate Plan is close to best effort. When you realise that Telstra aren’t offering a 12Mbps plan and consider that 12Mbps plus 25Mbps was predicted by Labor to be under 65%, then the actual figure of 79% on 25Mbps and slower suggests that not surprisingly Labor were overly optimistic.

        > Whatever Labor predicted, doesn’t matter. Labor aren’t in power,

        Building a network with speed tiers was a deliberate decision that Labor made. The fact that 79% on fibre are currently connected at 25Mbps or slower and a shrinking 16% are connected at 100Mbps should provide

        > Liberals are, and guess how many % are going to be on 1% in 2026 with the MTM? Far, far less than 1%.

        Hard to tell, but for the top 1%, I’d suggest the $10,000 for fibre on demand is unlikely to be an issue, especially when you consider that the top 1% employee accountants who could claim it as a work expense. Personally for me $10,000 is cheaper than the stamp duty to move to a FTTP area and Optus were talking about 2 year contracts where they would cover the fibre install costs.

        • @ Mathew

          MTM has blown out by as much as $26.5B and 4 years over the promises… and all you can keep fucking harping on about is one 50/12 prediction from what, 2010… you were told was conservative and would be exceeded and it has been…

          Yet you still keep mentioning it, over and over….

          Seriously dude, sorry but, WTF is wrong with you?

          • MTM has blown out by as much as $26.5B and 4 years over the promises… and all you can keep fucking harping on about is one 50/12 prediction from what, 2010… you were told was conservative and would be exceeded and it has been…

            He doesn’t care, all he cares about is 1Gbps for all, for free. Thats it. There isn’t anything else to it. I’ve asked him about it before.

          • > you were told was conservative and would be exceeded and it has been

            Labor’s prediction was that 50% would connect at 12Mbps and the other half would connect at the higher speeds. Telstra have chosen not to offer 12Mbps plans so the 25Mbps plans are significantly higher than Labor predicted. The 50Mbps, 100Mbps & 250Mbps plans are significantly below what Labor predicted. There are very few numbers in the Labor’s Corporate Plan that could be called conservative.

            > Seriously dude, sorry but, WTF is wrong with you?

            I wonder how you can be so deluded to consider Labor’s NBNCo Corporate Plans as optimistic.

            I wonder how you can be happy with a 1Gbps capable network where 79% are connected at 25Mbps or slower, only 16% (down 3% in 12 months) on 100Mbps and zero on faster speeds. Meanwhile in the rest of the world 1Gbps fibre is becoming the norm.

            > He doesn’t care, all he cares about is 1Gbps for all, for free. Thats it. There isn’t anything else to it. I’ve asked him about it before.

            Firstly, I’ve never said free, just on a fair and equitable basis. Usage based charging is fair and equitable because it enables everyone to access the game changing services that speeds faster than 100Mbps provide. People can then limit their usage based on ability to pay.

            If you read Labor’s statement of expectations to NBNCo it was a FTTP network with a base price the same as ADSL Unfortunately the outcome we see from that is that 79% restricted to 25Mbps and slower cannot access the services that Labor promoted. I guess this lack of vision is hardly surprising when if Telstra had cooperated, Labor would have built a FTTN network.

          • Mathew

            Labor predicted 20% on 100Mbps by 2026 yet the coalition has predicted 30% on 100Mbps by 2020 yet your not complaining about that.

            How can you be happy Mathew spending $56B on an up to 25Mbps network SOE states only 25Mbps vs $64B SR figures for a 1Gbps network. But then the CBA said we only need 15Mbps.

            “Usage based charging is fair and equitable because it enables everyone to access the game changing services that speeds faster than 100Mbps provide. ”

            Yet the MTM doesn’t provide that you will get any where upto 25Mbps to 100Mbps by depends on which tech you have. With FTTN how good your copper is and how far from the node. Then you expect people who can’t get faster speeds to either move or pay move while others get it for free.

          • Seriously dude, sorry but, WTF is wrong with you?

            I think we all already know the answer to that question Rizz ;-)

          • Ill copy/paste it again Mathew since you didn’t address it at all…and actually slipped right back into doing the same exact thing I asked about … *sigh*

            @ Mathew

            MTM has blown out by as much as $26.5B and 4 years over the promises… and all you can keep fucking harping on about is one 50/12 prediction from what, 2010… you were told was conservative and would be exceeded and it has been…

            Yet you still keep mentioning it, over and over….

            Seriously dude, sorry but, WTF is wrong with you?

            I await you tell us again what LABOR (not NBNCo – revealing of motive in itself, IMO) and 50/12, with the same more recent batch of excuses why you got it so WRONG – JUST AS WE TOLD YOU.

            FEEL FREE TO MENTION THE MTM DEBACLE TOO!

            Did I shout? I wonder why?

          • But then if you support FTTdp you support the MtM model, if you don’t support the MtM model feel free to keep rabbiting on about 2013 and the fantasy NBN model of 93% FTTP by 2021.

            Not even Labor will shoot themselves in the foot twice and try that again.

          • No devoid it’s what’s making the best out of the fucked up model that the MTM has now given us. Thanks to switching to the MTM it has push the cost of FTTP from $44B to now $84B and from 2021 to now 2028.

          • No devoid it’s what’s making the best out of the fucked up model that the MTM has now given us.

            Nailed it. The damage the coalition clowns to the have done to the NBN is undeniable and will be difficult to repair. So now GimpCo is entertaining the idea of FttDp because just as we predicted FttN is not up to the task. If FttDp does eventuate that is an admission faster speeds are/will be needed and NBN were correct to roll out FttP in the first place.

            Everyone agrees FttP is the end goal.

            We knew this 20 years ago.

            It’s just taking the coalition clowns, gimpco and the copper fanboy knuckle draggers a bit longer to get there. We still have to wait for them to catch up since the coalition clowns made a complete mess of it.

    • On the Real estate agent thing and advertising. Having actually spoken to agent while actually looking at house instead of just guessing based on ads Real Estate agents generally try to talk down the NBN and are concerned it will actually reduce demand and prices in none fibre connected suburbs. Considering that none fibre connected homes are going to be majority of what they sell going forward it is no wonder they don’t want to acknowledge the issue in advertising. However I do see it specifically mentioned by builders when selling new estates as they don’t have the old stock issue that agent do.

      • Well I have had a new estate being built in my area at have advertised getting NBN fibre for selling the blocks since the rest of the area going to get FTTN

      • NBN ready is a selling point here.

        Luckily most of the city has FttP so its not going to be a long term issue, but RE agents I know say it does impact on selling price when something is in a cabled area versus not.

        They readily know that specific suburbs are much easier to sell though, and thats a good part of the reason.

        • RE agents I know say it does impact on selling price when something is in a cabled area versus not.

          As we all foretold :o)

          The MtM is basically class warfare…

          • One of the problems is that it can be hard to spot. Two very similar suburbs down here that, when you look at whats on the market at the moment look pretty similar, but one has FttP and the other doesnt. The RE friends reckon the difference is around $15-$20k at the moment, and has basically pushed prices up 5% in the FttP area.

            But if someone looks at the non FttP area, theres no mention of comms at all, and when asked, its pointed out that “its coming soon” ™ and that its a future value increase. Or some spiel like that.

          • GongGav,

            NBN ready is a selling point here.

            Where is ‘here’ exactly GG?

            Luckily most of the city has FttP so its not going to be a long term issue, but RE agents I know say it does impact on selling price when something is in a cabled area versus not.

            You start out referring to FTTP and then finish up referring to cable, which one is it?

            They readily know that specific suburbs are much easier to sell though, and thats a good part of the reason.

            Which suburbs exactly, and what suburbs are easier to sell FTTP or cable active?

            The permutations are endless on that one, are suburbs that can get 4G easier to sell than those on 3G, are residences that are closer to a exchange easier to sell because they have faster ADSL2+, are HFC areas that have DOCSIS 3.0 easier to sell than those that don’t have HFC at all, are residences on NBN fixed wireless easier to sell than satellite?

            Ask your ‘RE agents’ what they think?

            lol

          • Alain sets up so many strawmen on delimiter that I’m amazed Renai hasn’t been shutdown by the fire department as fire hazard!

          • Yes it’s all a bit awkward to explain away eh?

            best to go for the MtM bashers standard fallback, make it personal, and tap dance a lot.

          • So devoid I can’t follow your bad grammar insults.

            Your happy dish it out but can’t take it

          • You start out referring to FTTP and then finish up referring to cable, which one is it?

            Bloody hell, comprehension, have any? He’s obviously saying once an area has fibre cabling laid it is then a cabled area, not a cable area…

          • Tin don’t be to hard on devoid he couldn’t understand 0% use of HFC in the pre election policy

          • But I’m helping YOU Reality, not Gav.

            You obviously have massive grammar and comprehension issues, I’ll try and help you understand them when I see you doing it, ok?

          • @ alain …

            Once upon a time is how you are meant to start each one of your fairytales…

            Got it now?

            Then tell us once again about that FAILED (your word) HFC, was that a fairytale too or is your latest complete support for HFC the fairytale now?

            :/

            You speak with forked tongue and tell so much BS, it’s hard to keep up with your perpetual flip-flopping, lack of position on anything (except for the subservience to the masters, that is rock solid).

            Stop hiding and tell us all again.

            So we can live happily (well laughingly) ever after.

            Yes there are 5 of us Gav’s now and if you weren’t such a dick, you might have “a (singular)” friend too? But alas.

            You’re welcome.

          • lol, the smoke grenade supply must be getting low by now.

            Bit sad really, the same old diversion routine as the poor old ‘Back to FTTP 2013’ fan boys now rebadging themselves as ‘FTTdp fan boys’ are desperately scrambling around finding something to cling to, careful even that thin fibre might break!

          • I see you are slowly suggesting that you have been a FttDp fan all along (wonder why) ROFLMFAO…

            You were and are a FTTN supporter (wonder why) nothing more.

          • Bit sad really, the same old diversion routine as the poor old ‘Back to FTTP 2013’ fan boys now rebadging themselves as ‘FTTdp fan boys’ are desperately scrambling around finding something to cling to, careful even that thin fibre might break!

            Much like the “Back to 2003 FttN” fanbois, eh Reality ;o)

            The fact that it is a new addition to either plan (if they choose to add it) means either side can change their mind to consider what wasn’t an option previously.

            Personally, I don’t have a problem with you “FttN fanbois” joining us “FttDP fanbois”, it’s almost as fast as FttP, with a price point near FttN, so it should be a no brainier unless you have a different agenda to actually having a world class NBN.

          • Wow, stop looking at something for a weekend, and I get dopplegangers all over the place. Funny.

            @alain – I live in Wollongong, hence the Gong part of my tag.

            There is zero HFC here, and by cabling, I’m refering to the finished full rollout of FttP as being cabled versus a stretch with FttN that isnt. If you want to clutch at straws with that little part, knock yourself out, most people here understand the inference.

            To be clear though, it does NOT refer to HFC. Fun fact: Did you know that fiber optic is also a cable?

            Specific suburbs, I’ll list Berkely and Dapto as simple examples, but there are other areas that are similar down here. Broadly next to each other, Dapto has full FttP, Berkely has parts that havent started.

            One area is about $20k more expensive than the other, and the 5 friends of mine that sell property for a living put it down to NBN.

            How hard is that to comprehend?

          • How hard is that to comprehend?

            He works very, very hard not to comprehend what he doesn’t like…

    • The ludicrous fact is that if NBN removed speed tiers on FTTN because of the varying speeds based on distance to the exchange that 79% would see a significant increase in speed.

      Yes, no speed tiers would be nice.

      No, they won’t do away with them.

      It’s simple economics, if they allow people to access the network at uncapped speeds, they’d need to seriously increase network capacity. This would increase the cost considerably, which would make the connection cost blow out to where the lower wage folks wouldn’t even be able to afford it.

      And considering the cost of a gigabit AVC is $150 on it own (not including any other charge like CVC or RSP overheads), what would you propose? Either the NBN really would cost over $100b and never get an ROI, or only people like Malcolm could afford to connect to it.

      This is the problem with you Mathew, you never think beyond you dream, or have any answers for the consequences…

      • It would also be harder to gouge people. They make the most profit from the small bandwidth plans, and its those plans that end up compensating for the larger ones open to abuse.

        Its hard to abuse a service when you are paying $40 for 10 gig, or something like that…

      • Plus Tim this is an example Mathew has tried to claim people in a 12/1 unlimited would use more than someone on 100Mbps with just 100Gb of data lol very selective lol.

        But then if you use his own example with no speed tiers then the ones that can’t get any better than 25Mbps are paying for the ones getting free usages to 100Mbps like HFC 3.1 which he claims he is against. But then also expects them to pay 10k+ or move to get faster speeds when again the ones that they are paying for get it for free.

      • Its also an incredibly inane comment anyway.

        If they removed speed tiers on FTTN, sure people would probably see an improvement on average.

        But if they removed speed tiers on FTTP, then everyone would see an increase and more of an increase than FTTN.

        Its that part he always leaves out. As if only FTTN would benefit from no speed tiers.

      • This is the problem with you Mathew, you never think beyond you dream

        When you only have one brain cell that is difficult to do Tinman.

      • > It’s simple economics, if they allow people to access the network at uncapped speeds, they’d need to seriously increase network capacity.

        Sorry, but you are wrong. It is data that requires an increase in network capacity. If you are not transferring data on the network then you are not using the capacity. Consider this very simple example: 100 people want to download a 1Gbps file. Each person starts downloading 1 second after the last person started.
        – If everyone has a 1Gbps connection, then the file is transferred in 1 second
        – If everyone has a 100Mbps connection, then the first person takes 10 seconds to transfer the file, meaning that after 10 seconds exactly the same capacity
        Most people appear clueless that the internet is a packet switched network. NBNCo severely limited the ability of RSPs to prioritise packets within the NBN network meaning that many innovations are (e.g. Internode’s FlatRate Plan) are simply not possible.

        If NBNCo need to increase network capacity, then that will be because RSPs are paying more in CVC and the upgrade from GPON2.5 to GPON10 is

        > This is the problem with you Mathew, you never think beyond you dream, or have any answers for the consequences

        I have a fairly good idea of what 1Gbps can offer and I expect I’ll have that speed before most people on here who are lamenting about FTTN. The only question is if I find a suitable house in FTTP area or the street unites to convert to fibre.

        The consequence of Labor’s plan is that
        – Currently 79% are denied the benefits of the NBN that Labor clearly explained in the NBNCo Corporate Plan are only available of speeds of 100Mbps or more.
        – Only 16% and falling are experiencing 10% of what FTTP NBN could offer.
        – A digital divide was created by Labor (and the Greens) by introducing speed tiers which means only an elite (<1%) will have 1Gbps in 2026.

        I've been around long enough to have experienced when Telstra introduced ADSL and had three speed tiers: 256Kbps, 512Kbps & 1500Kbps. At 256Kbps VoIP is painful and forget video streaming. Labor's speed tiers are returning us to those days.

        • Sorry, but you are wrong. It is data that requires an increase in network capacity.

          You get that the 1Gbps part is the actual data you can put through, right?

          If you are not transferring data on the network then you are not using the capacity. Consider this very simple example: 100 people want to download a 1Gbps file. Each person starts downloading 1 second after the last person started.
          – If everyone has a 1Gbps connection, then the file is transferred in 1 second
          – If everyone has a 100Mbps connection, then the first person takes 10 seconds to transfer the file, meaning that after 10 seconds exactly the same capacity. Most people appear clueless that the internet is a packet switched network. NBNCo severely limited the ability of RSPs to prioritise packets within the NBN network meaning that many innovations are (e.g. Internode’s FlatRate Plan) are simply not possible.

          So….whats the point of having !Gbps speed if you don’t download anything, pray tell?

          I have a fairly good idea of what 1Gbps can offer and I expect I’ll have that speed before most people on here who are lamenting about FTTN. The only question is if I find a suitable house in FTTP area or the street unites to convert to fibre.

          I actually doubt you do, given the above…

          I’ve been around long enough to have experienced when Telstra introduced ADSL and had three speed tiers: 256Kbps, 512Kbps & 1500Kbps. At 256Kbps VoIP is painful and forget video streaming. Labor’s speed tiers are returning us to those days.

          Then I’ve been around a lot longer than you, and you are flat out wrong.

          • About his point about speed tiers, I personally dislike the speed tiers as they are anyway, whether it be HFC/FTTP/FTTN or anything.

            I mean, come on… 12/1? If someone is on ADSL close enough to the exchange, they are already likely on higher than that. It’s a throw away tier that shouldn’t exist.

            25/5 shouldn’t really exist either. If they wanted to do tiers, they should have done symmetrical speed tiers, and then hyped the advantage of high upload speeds, something that the LNP can’t do with FTTN because it just isn’t possible.

            If I had my choice there would be no tiers, but if there are to be tiers, I’d much rather see 25/25, 50/50, 100/100.

          • > So….whats the point of having !Gbps speed if you don’t download anything, pray tell?

            You do not need to be downloading at 1Gbps 24/7 to receive a benefit from 1Gbps. A couple of examples:
            * grandparents to video conference with their grandkids once a week for 30 minutes and use the internet for little else
            * person receiving counselling session once a fortnight via a video conference
            * educational group discussions

            Why should the people in these examples have to subsidise those people who want to download 324TB/month on their unlimited plan? Quotas enable people to manage their usage and historically RSPs have increased quotas for the same price. Speed tiers impose a hard limit on what is possible with a connection.

          • Lol Mathew so how with cvc charge are they subsidise the ones downloading more pray tell

      • So are all house price rises in Australia over the last two years due to FTTP?

        How do you tell what the mix is, location 60%, FTTP 20%, schools nearby 20%?

        Proximity to public transport 50%, location 40% FTTP 10%?

        The reasons why people buy a residence are endless, but apparently the only certainty is FTTP, wow that’s amazing that we know that!

        • I’m personally looking to pick up a bargain house made of straw and copper!

        • So are all house price rises in Australia over the last two years due to FTTP?

          Given most house prices are where they are due to proximity to good infrastructure (as you’ve pointed out, hospitals, schools, shops, to name a few), it’s a pretty long draw of your bow to claim good broadband has no impact on price.

          From a survey of one I did tonight, I know I had a clause written in to the contract for our current place that the HFC was available and working.

          We also put the rent up on our rental in Bundaberg where the NBN rolled through the area.

          Your ignorance on how capitalism works is surprising ;o)

      • Of the 6 houses for sale in Warabrook only one mentions FTTP. I couldn’t find any rental properties advertising FTTP. Considering it is an easy sentence to add in and real estate agents are aware of what other properties are on the market, I think you’ve pretty much proven my point. Thanks.

  7. Labor are just taking a litmus test on which way to go with their election policy, at the moment they are in a dilemma as to what to do.

    A lot of adverse reaction to the Coalition rollout means they need to be seen to be different, then the real problem starts, in what way can Labor be different.

    There is one overidding perception of the NBN, how bloody slow it all is, after nine years of the ‘bloody NBN’ speed of the rollout is the priority, which makes it very interesting what Labor will do about FTTN and HFC.

    • Maybe labor you copy the coalition tactic of 2013 and claim they can do the rollout for $29B and complete in 3 years

    • Wouldn’t it be ironic if Labor decided to stick with FTTN.

      The same sort of plan they had in 2007, derided by the Coalition at the time as FRAUDBAND, who said they could do their’s faster and cheaper… but later adopted that very FRAUDBAND.

      They could all then argue chicken/egg, as to who was actually the silliest FRAUDBAND proponent.

      You’re welcome.

    • “how bloody slow it all is”

      Gee, imagine had the LNP not spent 2 years faffing about with Telstra and just gotten on with the job of building the NBN…. Hadn’t wasted time doing all these extra trials of different technologies and just gotten on with building the NBN…

      We might have even had a network built for the cost of Scenario 2 in the SR, Peak Funding of $64Bn, $8-18Bn (because differences of $10Bn in peak funding is such great accounting work…) more than the current outdated mess we are building.

      Oh, I forgot, now FTTdp is what you support, and you weren’t just towing the party line before blindly…

      • I support a MtM model, not the 93% FTTP pipe dream that Labor cooked up.

        The redundant failed Labor NBN model required all copper and and HFC areas to be shut down in order to justify the expensive brownfields FTTP overbuild, take out the lucrative HFC areas and a lot of the brownfield FTTN areas then FTTP as a viable infrastructure model is all dressed up with no where to go, beyond greenfields estates.

        Labor has gone very very quiet on FTTP, understandably so, they don’t want the debacle of 2007-2013 thrown back at them during this election year, best to play the negative tactic on the Coalition MtM and hope no one notice that not one statement on what they will actually do that will be different has been said.

        • Yet you support the pipe dream of $29B complete by this year

          How is that pipe dream going btw

          • How is that pipe dream going btw

            It’s not going too well is it Jason. It’s been a complete disaster so far and with only 273 days (tick tock) left I’m not sure GimpCo will be able to deliver that much hyped 25mbps to everyone the coalition clowns promised us. What a disaster.

          • “What does Hotcakes think?”

            Sorry to have to spell it out, but someone has to… I’d wager Hotcakes thinks you’re a goose, as I’d suggest pretty much everyone does here.

            The way everyone’s mucking around with each others names, simply to mock you, should be enough evidence…

            But then you don’t do evidence and facts do you?

            So please continue, you keep us all amused if nothing else.

            You’re welcome.

          • The way everyone’s mucking around with each others names, simply to mock you, should be enough evidence…

            Well….that and it’s a fun thing to do on April 1 :o)

          • I’d wager Hotcakes thinks you’re a goose, as I’d suggest pretty much everyone does here.

            For the record I personally think he is a petulant child with the mental age of a potato.

          • I quite like potatoes GongGav… when they are roasted or turned into McCain Superfries.

          • “Indeed, where would we be without the humble spud?”

            Building a FTTP Network because Abbott wouldn’t have taken a sledgehammer to it ;-)

          • Was more thinking the humble spud might take offence to being compared to someone in that way.

            I like my spuds as much as the next guy, especially when shaped into chip like objects and deep fried.

          • Well, my reply ended up in the wrong place…. so I’m gonna paste it here…

            ““I like my spuds as much as the next guy, especially when shaped into chip like objects and deep fried.”

            Sweet potato chips are also pretty darn tasty too.

            Especially if you get yourself some “yuzu salt” (Japanese lime salt) on it. The mix of sweet, salt and carbs is amazing.”

          • Sweet potato chips are also pretty darn tasty too.

            Be gone from my sight. Sweet potato is a vile vegetable.

          • “Be gone from my sight. Sweet potato is a vile vegetable.”

            Man, I hate sweet potato and pumpkin normally, but deep fried sweet potato chips with, as I said, yuzu salt are amazing.

            I’d say don’t knock it until you’ve tried it, but you normal potato zealots are just too stuck in the past with being Rizz to be able to do that!

          • Building a FTTP Network because Abbott wouldn’t have taken a sledgehammer to it ;-)

            Fibre to the Potato??

            I think Abbott would have preferred Fibre to the Onion!

          • Man, I hate sweet potato and pumpkin normally, but deep fried sweet potato chips with, as I said, yuzu salt are amazing.

            Very well. I will try these sweet potato chips. I remain dubious however.

          • “I think Abbott would have preferred Fibre to the Onion!”

            Bloomin’ Onions from Outback Steakhouse are pretty darn delicious….. Hard to fault FTTOnion.

        • “best to play the negative tactic”

          Worked for the LNP when in opposition to get into power. So why not?

          Besides, the LNP got in with a bullshit NBN policy, 25Mbit to all by 2016 soonerer fasterer cheaperer more affordabler.

          Even if Labor released their policy tomorrow, you wouldn’t stop harping on about Labor and their previous rollout, and you claim we’re the ones stuck in the past? Alright then….

          No matter what Labor announce, you’d not vote for them anyway, so what really does it matter? Surely if the country votes them in, no matter what they take to the election, that gives them a mandate…. right?

        • @ alain.

          “I support a MtM model…”

          Well you didn’t support MTM, you previously (years ago) fully supported and also wanted for yourself, only FTTN.

          Nothing else, didn’t you?

          You’re welcome.

          • When you look at it, he doesn’t actually support FttN, he only bascks that because that’s what the coach for his team settled on.

          • I support a MtM model, FTTN at the moment is intended to be the dominant infrastructure because it is fast and relatively least cost to rollout, it doesn’t mean it will always be that way.

            If a Labor NBN Co jump on the FTTdp bandwagon the decision they have to make is what delay and cost will that add to FTTN targeted areas.

          • Well you didn’t support MTM, you previously (years ago) fully supported and also wanted for yourself, only FTTN.

            Indeed Rizz, we all remember the relentless whining.

            So desperate for just a bit faster than ADSL2+ speeds yet now they want something faster.

            I’d like to say I didn’t see that coming but I did :-)

          • Lol devoid same tired line when you can’t dispute the facts have to start the personal attacks

            Can you point to the CP16 where it doesn’t say it cost $56B. You did such a great job showing the pre election using HFC lol.

            So what the cost of FTTP I’d they continued.

          • It’s MTM/FRAUDBAND @ $70B Jason :)

            From the horse’s mouth.

            No alain you support FTTN, not FttDp, don’t try weaseling, putting up the detour signs and moving the goal posts again.

            You’re welcome.

        • “I like my spuds as much as the next guy, especially when shaped into chip like objects and deep fried.”

          Sweet potato chips are also pretty darn tasty too.

          Especially if you get yourself some “yuzu salt” (Japanese lime salt) on it. The mix of sweet, salt and carbs is amazing.

        • Since you specifically requested my response for some reason, I think your preference for an out of date platform that is barely a step up for most people and an active step down for many that will not provide a ROI because it costs $70b (Joe Hockey) and be ready only two years sooner than the original, technically superior solution that would have costed half as much is pretty bonkers and I sincerely hope medical professionals are attending your needs.

  8. I want to know what Labor will do with the hundreds of thousands of Australians who are now (or soon will be) stuck with FTTN NBN.

    I have contacted Labor and I await a response. Will those who had FTTN forced on them be relegated to copper hell until the rest of the country go to FTTDP ?

    Will those who are on FTTN be the LAST who get fibre in Australia??

    • Why not? The majority of Australians voted to put these #@&£ing incompetent idiots into power, and I didn’t hear about those who didn’t organising mass rallies to convince the rest of the nation not to vote LNP. That’s the reality of this decision – you’re not just going to have to put up with FTTN for a few years, it could take decades to overcome that ridiculously stupid and short sighted error of judgement.

      For the few who called the LNP vote in 2013 as the disastrous failure of logic that it was, there were ten to shout us down and convincing us there was no long term harm in giving the LNP a go. Were you out there, shouting from the rooftops that the LNP would cripple the NBN irreparably? That they would be an economic disaster and cripple the economy? No, I didn’t think so.

      Australians love to ‘give someone a go’ just to see how badly they’ll #@&£ things up, then tear them down again – it’s a national past time. The problem is it’s all a bit late to complain when irreparable damage has been done, damage that was entirely predictable well before the fact. If Australia doesn’t like the result of its moronic decisions, maybe it should think just a little about the implications before it makes them. Just look at the results in Tasmania, where they voted in federal and state LNP ministers, in the smug and highly mistaken delusion that they were guaranteed FTTP.

      Sorry, if every Australian receiving FTTN was out there campaigning to ensure the LNP were handed their asses at the coming election we would see hardly any LNP ministers elected to Parliament and it would send a strong message to politicians that there are actual repercussions for political, economic and infrastructural vandalism. Somehow I don’t see that happening, but the ball’s in your court to get out there and try.

    • I expect that any that get FttN will be relegated to the back of the queue.

      If the goal is 100 Mbps, you’re going to be working on the 1-10 Mbps areas before you go back to the 25 Mbps areas, and the HFC areas that can (potentially at least) get 40 Mbps are going to be even more SOL.

    • Will those who are on FTTN be the LAST who get fibre in Australia??

      I agree with the other guys, I’m pretty sure anyone with FttN will be stuck (“overjoyed!” – for Reality) with it until “stage 2” where everyone will be getting upgraded.

      Labor would be too open to the LNP and Murdoch Media savaging them on “doubling the waste by building over areas that are already on the NBN!!!1” if they went back straight away and changed it.

      Best case is both parties going into the next election with policies that involve a switch to at least FttDP as soon as possible as it’s almost as fast as full fibre, and almost as cheap as FTTN, and makes the upgrade to full fibre considerably easier/cheaper at a later date.

      • “Labor would be too open to the LNP and Murdoch Media savaging them on “doubling the waste by building over areas that are already on the NBN!!!1” if they went back straight away and changed it.”

        And yet we hear not-peep-1 out of them about NBN Co overbuilding TransACT FTTN instead of building to areas that have nothing….. The frigging hypocrisy.

        • Remember, this is just one area of governance that we see and understand. It is probable that this same kind of hypocrisy and mismanagement is going on across all areas of government. The country operates despite politicians, I think.

    • Richard Frost,

      I want to know what Labor will do with the hundreds of thousands of Australians who are now (or soon will be) stuck with FTTN NBN.

      Are you speaking for all them that are ‘stuck with FTTN NBN’ as you emotively put it?

      That is you know all the hundreds of thousands want to be moved off FTTN ASAP after Labor gain government.

        • To be fair to alain, they werent his numbers. He was quoting the generalised comment from Richard Frost about how many people might want FttP speeds but will be stuck on FttN speeds.

          But he then tried to turn it to imply every one of those hundreds of thousands want to be moved off FttN, when that wasnt the comment.

          Richard Frost was right. Anyone that gets FttN will be stuck on it. How many would want to be on FttP I doubt we’ll ever know for sure, but you can say with equal certainty that there will be some that want faster, and some satisfied.

  9. I think that a large part of the problem here is we’re still trying to get over Abbott’s legacy. Abbott first told Turnbull to “murder the NBN”, or words to that effect, then, when Abbott realised that NBN was bigger than he thought, Turnbull was forced into changing things into the 2nd rate mess we’re now getting, AND was forced to argue for it long and loud in the media.

    It would not surprise me if he was, privately, a FTTP man, but, because of what happened under Abbott’s “leadership”, he can’t come out and say that now.

    The terms “politics” and “common sense” are rarely used in the same sentence, and this is a good example of why.

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