They served the public interest

166


As I write this article, it’s Saturday afternoon and everything is supposed to be right with the world.

Right around Australia, people are having a good time.

Many of us are spending quality time with our families, creating memories that will warm our hearts for our whole lives.

Many of us are pursuing our passions, experiencing new sensations and concepts that will stimulate our minds for a long time to come.

And many of us are reveling in the physical strength of our bodies through sport, building muscles and skills that will delight us for years.

Saturday afternoon is a good time for most of us. A time when it feels good to be alive.

But for at least two people today, Saturday afternoon is not a good time.

The Australian newspaper reported today that at least two employees of the NBN company had been stood down from their duties, as a result of the Australian Federal Police investigation into ongoing leaks at that company.

This little fact appears to have been largely lost today.

Most articles on this subject will ignore this snippet of information and focus purely on the political furore that has arisen over the past week as the AFP raided Labor party offices over the leaks.

What happens to two NBN staffers is, it appears, far less important than knowing which Minister knew what and when. The Australian itself buried the news about these two staffers on paragraph 17.

Now, I personally do not know who these NBN staffers are.

I do not know their names. I do not know their positions. I do not know how long they have been with the NBN company.

But, if it is true that they leaked information about the NBN, I do know two things about them.

The first thing I know about them is that they strongly believe in the public interest: In doing the right thing and being a good person.

There is no money in being a whistleblower.

There is no real fame, although there may be infamy.

There is no personal advantage.

All you you gain from leaking sensitive information about your employer to the media is the knowledge that you are doing the right thing and that this may, somehow, have a positive impact.

I have dealt with hundreds of whistleblowers in the last 15 years that I have been a journalist.

They have always acted from the same motivation: A desire to serve the public interest.

They come to me with information because they know that I feel the same way.

These are responsible people doing good work who see bad things happening in front of them.

They see people lying. People cheating. People stealing.

And so they decide that it is their responsibility to tell the public about it.

It is not enough for these people merely to live. They — and I — feel that they must live in the right way. Ethically, thoughtfully, doing the right thing for society in general.

It’s not hard to see why whistleblowers would exist within the ranks of the NBN company.

The whole history of Malcolm Turnbull’s involvement with the NBN project over the past five and a half years has been riddled with injustice.

Since it took power in September 2013, the Coalition has done a great deal to demolish Australia’s largest ever infrastructure project.

The NBN, as created by Labor, was a visionary project which would have ensured Australia’s broadband needs for the next century were met.

Under the Coalition, it has become a laughing stock; a farce; a political plaything and a swirling cauldron of spin.

It would have been extremely difficult for any publicly minded NBN employee to sit by and watch the project that they believed in sink to these lows.

So of course there have been leaks. Of course there have been whistleblowers.

Any time injustice exists, those who serve the public interest will rise to meet that injustice.

But this brings me to the second thing I know about these whistleblowers.

I do not know if the allegations against these two NBN staffers are true. I do not know what they did, or anything associated with their circumstances.

But if they are true, I know they are suffering.

There is no money, fame or personal advantage to be gained from becoming a whistleblower.

But there is a great deal of risk.

There is risk to your livelihood. Many whistleblowers end up losing their jobs and suffer financially.

There is risk to your reputation. Many of your colleagues will turn their backs on you.

And there is an even greater personal risk: That you will suffer psychologically from all of the factors associated with blowing the whistle.

The essence of being a whistleblower is that you sacrifice your own interest to the public interest.

Today it appears that cost has come crashing down on the heads of two NBN staffers.

With this in mind, I have one message to them, if they did indeed blow the whistle.

You’re not alone.

We’re with you.

I, many Delimiter readers, many of your fellow NBN employees (past and present) and many Australians in general, are with you.

You attempted to shine a light on the truth about this grand NBN project. You tried to do the right thing, and you believed in what you were doing.

You will suffer, as a result. Things will go bad for you. Life will be tough.

Your Saturday afternoons may feel black and dead for some time.

But hold your head up high.

Because you have honour. You have integrity. In a time of great darkness, you stood up for what was right and good.

You served the public interest. You served your country. You strengthened our democracy.

So remember this, and stay strong. Hold your head up high.

We’re with you.

166 COMMENTS

  1. “We’re with you.”
    Hell yes. Without these leaked documents it would be destruction as usual behind closed doors for the NBN.
    Thank god for whistle blowers, and thank you whoever you guys are who let the public know at the heavy cost of your jobs, life and whatever else has been tarnished through this ordeal.

    • Hell yes. Without these leaked documents it would be destruction as usual behind closed doors for the NBN.

      +1

      If there is a god, may it go with you NBN leaker people.

      Cause we sure as shit wouldn’t know any better from the “more transparent, adult’s in charge” pricks that are running the place currently…

  2. We are with them.

    I hope this day is seen as the day the truth came out.

    The lnp should hang their head in shame.

    What do their supporters think about this – they will try to blame the alp of course

  3. Its a sad day when there are only two people with integrity out of four-odd-thousand of those employed at nbnTM.

    But this is the very reason why we are where we are now. Integrity and standing up for what is right for all(not just yourself) is a rare commodity.

    As one that holds himself to a high KPI (unlike the KPI’s of the MTM and the LNP) when it comes to integrity and morale, i salute them.

  4. We’re with you

    Dam right we are. Renai if these two fine folks find themselves in need of help, I’m pretty sure many delimiter readers would chip in to help them them out (assuming you become aware of their circumstances).

    Obviously we wouldn’t want the Murdoch rags doing a Duncan Sorrar on them so if possible we should keep their names out of public view.

    • +1. We stand with them in this cause and that means giving them a hand if need be. Though this should not come at a cost to them including their safety.

  5. So AFP raiding makes the leaks official.

    NBN letting go 2 people makes the leaks official.

    Can’t wait for ‘Dick’ and ‘Fantasyland’ to state otherwise.

    • Can’t wait to see what she has to say about this…if she says anything at all about it, that is….

  6. + 1 Renai

    For the complete coverage of this latest farce in relation to the NBN, but especially for these two paragraphs in relation to MTM, that a couple of the faithful puppets here, always opposed to FTTP for obvious reasons, need to actually heed…

    The NBN, as created by Labor, was a visionary project which would have ensured Australia’s broadband needs for the next century were met.

    Under the Coalition, it has become a laughing stock; a farce; a political plaything and a swirling cauldron of spin..

    Absolutely…

    Seriously this isn’t about taking political sides (from my perspective anyway) … it’s simply about biting the bullet in relation to what’s best in relation to comms now and going forward, for Australia and all Australians … including me and my family, you and your family and even these blinded “puppets (who relentlessly and obviously, oppose FTTP because of their politics/ideology)'” and their families..

    Kudos again Renai…

    • Seriously this isn’t about taking political sides (from my perspective anyway) … it’s simply about biting the bullet in relation to what’s best in relation to comms now and going forward, for Australia and all Australians

      +1

      • Mostly agree with the sentiment, except that it stopped being about comms back in September 2013. Because the LNP and Malcolm made it about something else – they made it about money. Which makes it about corruption, and illegal behaviour. Which is why this is far, far more than a story about infrastructure or technology or Internet speed – it is a story about lies and deceit and about tens of billions of dollars ripped out of the hands of tax payers to prop up a company that will rape Australians for decades to come, about propping up another failing business model that happens to be the propaganda machine of the LNP.

        It started by being about comms and fixing some pretty big problems that the market could never solve on its own, and that is how we can prove that the rest of the story is such a scandal – because it’s a corruption story with clearly defined facts at the heart of it. That’s why every Australian should sit up and pay attention, and why having the will to see where the rabbit hole goes will ultimately lead to the truth (and, if people in this country actually believe justice is something worth fighting for, will end up putting an ex-PM in prison).

        • +1

          #LPARoyalCommision

          Even though they’d (ALP) take some heat on it, I really do think were at the point where we need an RC into the actions of the LPA.

          We also need a federal ICAC.

          The ball is in your court Labor.

          • I fear enough of the electorate is so ill informed that announcing such a policy before the election could back fire. That’s not to say it shouldn’t happen and I can’t imagine Senator Conroy would stand in one’s way.

    • > _Seriously this isn’t about taking political sides (from my perspective anyway) … it’s simply about biting the bullet in relation to what’s best in relation to comms now and going forward, for Australia and all Australians_

      All Australians? Do you include in that the 79% who have willingly chosen 25Mbps or slower on FTTP who won’t experience the real benefits of 1Gbps that Labor promised (eHealth, eLearning, etc.).

      Where the people who should have been blowing the whistle on the fact that Labor planned to spend significant money to build a network for the elite on which in 2026 <1% would connect at 1Gbps? What I see is a group of self interested people who think they can afford the fast plans but as ARPU rises may well find themselves mistaken.

      I’m all for open government and decisions made on the basis of facts, but the reality is that Labor must accept the blame for the state of the NBN because they made the key decisions (speed tiers, overbuilding HFC, not structurally separating Telstra, rejecting FTTN for rural communities, etc.).

      • And what do you think of the current govenment building a 1Mbps faster than ADSL2 network for $56B. That only 7% on 100Mbps now for FTTN when they expect 20% by 2020

        • If the government builds infrastructure then it should be for the benefit of the whole community not a select rich few. That same rich few will be able to afford FoD.

          It has been clear since the first edition of the NBNCo Corporate Plan endorsed by Labor that their network would not deliver what the press releases claimed, that it was full of political compromise and would make little difference to Australia’s world rankings when other countries have been building symmetric direct fibre links running at 1Gpbs for years. Compare that with Labor’s plan for an elite 1% to have 1Gbps in 2026. In 2026 those other countries will have probably upgraded to 10Gbps or faster.

          • Who know what labor might have done by 2026. You keep harping on about it like a broken record but it’s 10 years away. Who know what could change between then and now. They might have seen the folly of the pricing model and change it to be more inline with the rest of the world. But now we have a govenment with a target of 30% on 100Mbps by 2020 while labor was 20% by 2026. Who has the worst one?

            But what we have now is a govenment not even trying to compete with the rest of the world but $56B waste on supplying 1Mbps faster than ADSL. There own CBA said half the country would only need 15Mbps by 2023. So why is the such a large % picking higher speeds than that now.

            Considering that we have now 15% on FTTP 14% FTTB and only 7% on FTTN shows it can’t supply the speeds people are willing to pay for now.

            Yes the only 3 connections of the mythical FOD where it’s 3 times the price of FTTP. 10K for just 300M when our resident PM claimed it would be less than $2K.

          • We know that:
            – Labor’s plan was to privatise the network as soon as possible.
            – The original agreement between NBNCo & ACCC took 2 years to negotiate
            – There was a disconnect between Labor’s election statements (1Gbps FTTP) and the reality (planning for Considering that we have now 15% on FTTP 14% FTTB and only 7% on FTTN shows it can’t supply the speeds people are willing to pay for now.

            Possibly, although many people on 100Mbps FTTP are not receiving 100Mbps due to network congestion issues.

            More importantly, you are still trying to justify a government infrastructure project that will benefit the wealthy most. Many more wealthy people take advantage of tax benefits from Superannuation and Negative Gearing and many see this as wrong, yet a network being built that delivers the most benefit to the top 1% is seen as a good thing?

            > They might have seen the folly of the pricing model and change it to be more inline with the rest of the world.

            What would you define as inline with the rest of the world? Unlimited data with speed tiers. Arguably an even worse scenario for an equitable society.

          • We know that

            I know that YOU think that the current liebral plan is superior, because you NEVER say anything about them.

            You’re a partisan shill. Everything you say is politically motivated, and you CGAF about your fellow Australians, no matter how to try to position your self.

          • We know that the
            coalition plan is to privatise the network as soon as possible.
            The new agreement between NBNCo & ACCC took 2 years to negotiate
            There was a disconnect between Coalition election statements ($29B 25Mbps for this year) and the reality only 25% connected this year.

            “Possibly, although many people on 100Mbps FTTP are not receiving 100Mbps due to network congestion issues.”
            That would be the case if FTTN and FTTP was the same but it’s not.

            More importantly, you are still trying to justify a government infrastructure project that will benefit the wealthy most. Many more wealthy people take advantage of tax benefits from Superannuation and Negative Gearing and many see this as wrong, yet a network being built that delivers the most benefit to the top FOD for 10K + is seen as a good thing?

            “What would you define as inline with the rest of the world? Unlimited data with speed tiers. Arguably an even worse scenario for an equitable society.”
            Wow you harp complaint about not getting your 1Gbps and comparing the likes of Google fibre and you don’t know what they are offering lol

          • @Tinman_au
            > I know that YOU think that the current liebral plan is superior, because you NEVER say anything about them.

            I challenge you to find one quote to support that statement. I don’t think the Liberal Plan is superior and have never said that. What I have said is that for the 79% ordering 25Mbps or slower the end-user experience between the two plans is negligible. I see little point in criticising the Liberal plan when so many others are doing that.

            > You’re a partisan shill. Everything you say is politically motivated, and you CGAF about your fellow Australians, no matter how to try to position your self.

            You may wish to think that, but you are WRONG. I care about those who will be denied access to the benefits of the NBN that Labor promised. What I struggle to comprehend is the people who support Labor’s failed plan knowing that it will deliver the the most benefit to the rich when it could have been so much more.

          • You may wish to think that, but you are WRONG.

            I DON’T wish to think that, every post you’ve ever made has said that. You NEVER say anything bad about the LPA, you STILL carry on about LABOR, who haven’t been in power for over three years.

            My apologies if that isn’t where you’re coming from, but seriously dude, have a think about how other people read what you mean (rather that what you say). You come across as being a supporter of “Lowest speeds for all at the highest cost” (i.e. the LPA MtM plan).

          • > Wow you harp complaint about not getting your 1Gbps and comparing the likes of Google fibre and you don’t know what they are offering lol

            Google Fibre is indisputably offering 1/1Gbps symmetric services. There are differing opinions on the technology being used to deliver the service. GPON is asymmetric which makes it less likely. WDM-PON is an option especially as Google are known for building custom hardware. It is entirely possible Google are using different technologies in different locations.

            More importantly, Google (a private business) is offering free connections to 1/1Gbps to selected public and affordable housing projects. Now that would have been a Labor policy worth supporting.

            I’m not complaining about not receiving 1Gbps. If I decide I require 1Gbps then $10,000 is not unreasonable to have fibre installed, since it is a service delivered to the top 1%. My complaint is that Labor announced 1Gbps just prior to the 2010 election and neglected to mention that in 2026 their forecast was for less than 1% to connect at those speeds.According to Quigley 1Gbps was a direct response to the Google Fibre announcement.

            Compare Labor’s failed plan with Google Fibre and ask yourself would we have been better to offer Google $20 billion to cable the country?

          • Lol Mathew and there it is

            Contradicting you own statement
            “More importantly, you are still trying to justify a government infrastructure project that will benefit the wealthy most.”
            If I decide I require 1Gbps then $10,000 is not unreasonable to have fibre installed, since it is a service delivered to the top 1%.”.
            Are you 300m from the node Mathew.
            But again you harping on about what may or may will happen in 2026.
            But yes the network labor was build could deliver 1Gbps with minimal upgrade cost. Could you say they wouldnt change there price better by then. But then labor was supply a free FTTP connecting like Google.

            If you a to pay 10K why are you not complain about the 3.1 upgrade for HFC. Since the current HFC already meets the up to 25Mbos they are only required to deliver. Should they be paying for that same upgrade too?.

            But you have to have physical speed teirs but everyone to pay the same price. you have already claimed tough luck to ones that can’t get a better speed then what they are getting now. That comment alone shows the shrill you are.

          • > But you have to have physical speed teirs but everyone to pay the same price. you have already claimed tough luck to ones that can’t get a better speed then what they are getting now. That comment alone shows the shrill you are.

            WRONG. What I’ve said is that the consensus appears to be that 79% connecting at 25Mbps is acceptable. On that basis, I consider this should be considered the acceptable minimum standard within Australia. Some may be lucky and have faster speeds, just like some are lucky and live close to a train station or good public school while others have to travel further.

            If you wish to argue that everyone should have FTTP (or at least the 93% Labor promised) then you need to argue why it is okay for 79% to miss out on this and more importantly defend why some of the most vulnerable who could benefit the most will miss out.

          • Hey, OCD boy, you were claiming FTTN was superior. You used to claim FTTN would not have speed bands. Really you obsession with this has nothing to do with the article.

          • Yet Mathew you complain about speed teirs but you want people paying the same if the get 12Mbps or 100Mbps. They are speed teirs on FTTN and they don’t have a choice on what they get.

          • “If the government builds infrastructure then it should be for the benefit of the whole community not a select rich few. That same rich few will be able to afford FoD.”
            So your argument is that the government shouldn’t build infrastructure for only rich people, but it’s much better that only rich people can afford said infrastructure… You what? Drugs?

            “Compare that with Labor’s plan for an elite 1% to have 1Gbps in 2026”
            Compare with Liberals’ plan for 0% to have 1Gbps in 2026.

          • Hotcakes are you really expecting the MM to understand and comprehend anything you just wrote?

          • @ TM

            “You NEVER say anything bad about the LPA, you STILL carry on about LABOR, who haven’t been in power for over three years.”

            Absolutely spot on about Mathew…

            Anyone who’s complete focus was (for 5 years) and still is, to cherry pick one or two “only” estimations from years ago relating to the previous plan for the previously different network, by a totally different government and different NBN management and then perpetually claim his “wonder find” as being the hub of Australia’s broadband woes, needs to be asked why.

            Especially, whilst simultaneously flatly refusing to see (let alone accept) the MTM debacle/actual blowouts in cost and timeframes in relation to the faster/cheaper [sic] retrograde network…

            … seems IMO, such a person is either misguided, gullible, has their priorities wrong or is completely servile.

            All of the above, possibly.

          • Mathew
            “Google Fibre is indisputably offering 1/1Gbps symmetric services. There are differing opinions on the technology being used to deliver the service. GPON is asymmetric which makes it less likely.”

            This is complete crap and you should learn how to spell FIBER correctly. There is no such company as “Google Fibre”

            The dirty little secret is that Google Fiber uses GPON in all areas of their footprint and speeds are synchronous.

            Not Google or anyone else makes modifications to PON technologies without ITU-T approval who have recently approved 40Gbps NG-PON2.

            EPB’s Chattanooga gigabit-capable network was using GPON, also synchronous, and they have recently upgraded the network to 10 gigabit NG-PON.

            Last time I counted, there are about 40 telcos deploying gigabit capable GPON on Fiber to the User in the United States. Double that number for the number of ISPs providing to retail customers.

            Time to play catch up Backwater Boy

      • Your an idiot Mathew. Labor haven’t been the government for 3 years, but that is still what your focused on.

        If you were actually honest, you’d be attacking the CURRENT government….you know, the ones that COULD actually change things as they currently stand…but no, you still arc on about a government that was in power THREE fucking years ago.

        Sod off dickhead. Your partisan bullshit is revealed.

        • People still blame Howard for privatising Telstra as a monopoly when it was Labor started the path for telecommunications.

          > If you were actually honest, you’d be attacking the CURRENT government…

          Why when the outcome for 79% under either government is the same. The root cause of the failure of the NBN to advance Australia can be traced back to the decisions Labor made.

          > you know, the ones that COULD actually change things as they currently stand

          For things to change, there has to be an acceptance that an issue exists with 79% of the country connecting at 25Mbps or slower on a network capable of 1Gbps. I’d suggest that very few see an issue with this in which case 25Mbps should be considered the acceptable standard for a broadband service in Australia and anything faster a luxury item.

          > Sod off dickhead. Your partisan bullshit is revealed.

          Please explain how you can defend Labor (theoretically the worker’s party) designing a financial model which was going to deliver the benefits only to the richest in the country. Either they didn’t have a clue about the effect of their policy (plausible given the massive financial boost that the school building program provided to private schools) or they didn’t care that the NBN would deliver little benefit to the poor. In fact, I expect most people struggling to make ends meet would ditch their landline connection first and subsist on 4G.

          • Please provide links to each RSP offering 1Gbps service, six years after Labor announced the NBN would support 1Gbps. Note that NBNCo have been offering 1Gbps for wholesale since December 2013.

            If you are in the 1% that Labor predicted would connect at 1Gbps in 2026, then I suggest FoD install costs wouldn’t trouble you. If you aren’t in the 1% then celebrate offering a benefit to the rich that you won’t be able to access.

          • @Mathew

            You didn’t answer Tims question Mathew, you just waffled about Labor (again).

            How about answering him? How will people get 1Gbps on FttN?

          • “People still blame Howard for privatising Telstra as a monopoly when it was Labor started the path for telecommunications.”
            Yes; Labour built PMG and Howard ruined telecommunications in this country. What’s the problem?

            “Why when the outcome for 79% under either government is the same. ”
            Except it’s not; Labor haven’t been running things for 3 years and since non-FTTP technologies can only drag that percentage down that number would have been higher had NBN not been demolished. This is simply indisputable.

            “The root cause of the failure of the NBN to advance Australia can be traced back to the decisions Labor made.”
            How was Australia supposed to have been advanced in 2016 by a network that wasn’t due for completion until 2021?

            “25Mbps should be considered the acceptable standard for a broadband service in Australia and anything faster a luxury item.”
            So why are we spending $71.6b on a network that provides ADSL2+ speeds?

            “I expect most people struggling to make ends meet would ditch their landline connection first and subsist on 4G.”
            Those would be fools.

            “Note that NBNCo have been offering 1Gbps for wholesale since December 2013.”
            [Citation Needed] that it is still on offer today. Where do they advertise this fact, outside of a single pdf press release immediately before the Tiers were buried by the Liberals?

          • Wow Hotcakes, our friend Mathew is now regurgitating many of our other friend’s (who’s name used to begin with A, but now begins with R) unfounded babblings from about 5 years ago…

            Like seriously, Telstra’s privatisation, speeds we do/don’t need, either dismissing or totally clinging to “estimations” and the new gem, speaking of people dumping their fixed for 4G…

            Funny thing is, as I recently explained to A/R… if people were/are as he suggested previously, willing to dump the superior/faster/better FTTP/fixed for wireless, then surely, they are even more likely to dump the inferior/slower/shittier FTTN based MTM… making MTM even less viable…

            Aren’t they? Doesn’t it?

            Anyway… 50/12… 50/12…

        • People still blame Howard for privatising Telstra as a monopoly when it was Labor started the path for telecommunications.

          Howard chose the settings they were sold under, or are you going to blame labor for that too?

          Why when the outcome for 79% under either government is the same. The root cause of the failure of the NBN to advance Australia can be traced back to the decisions Labor made.

          Because the current government of the day is what chooses those settings, but you NEVER say anything bad about the LPA, it’s always “Labor, labor, labor” from you, but even if labor wanted to change things, they CANT, because the LPA is the current government.

          You get that right? The LPA are the ones that could currently change things. Feel free to say something bad about them now.

          Please explain how you can defend Labor (theoretically the worker’s party) designing a financial model which was going to deliver the benefits only to the richest in the country.

          I don’t have to defend labor, I didn’t even vote for them last election. The NBN, however, was a “good idea”, that’s what I back.

          You’re the one that thinks it isn’t a good idea and seems to only want the rich to have possible access to 100Mbps+

          • > The NBN, however, was a “good idea”, that’s what I back.

            I agree the idea of a FTTP network is a good idea. Designing an implementation plan where 50% were predicted to connect at 12Mbps and less than 1% would connect at 1Gbps has to be considered gross incompetence.

            Actively supporting a FTTP network where 79% are connecting at 25Mbps has to be considered agreement that this is the acceptable standard.

            > You’re the one that thinks it isn’t a good idea and seems to only want the rich to have possible access to 100Mbps+

            Labor decided that with speed tiers. I’d like everyone to have access to 1Gbps because I think it could deliver significant benefits to society. 25Mbps will do very little.

          • I agree the idea of a FTTP network is a good idea.

            Then we agree on that at least.

            Actively supporting a FTTP network where 79% are connecting at 25Mbps has to be considered agreement that this is the acceptable standard.

            Only if you entrench that idea by supporting following governments that also follow that path, which most of post seem to support.

            I agree with you (and Stephen Baxter https://delimiter.com.au/2016/04/08/home-truths-baxter-points-ridiculous-nbn-speed-tiers-truly/), that speed tiers are antiquated, but attacking the NBN isn’t the way to fix speed tiers, it just makes the LPA think they are doing the right thing.

            Labor (well, the Panel of Experts actually) had a great idea doing FttP for Australia, but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater just because certain parts of it aren’t optimal, as you’ve now come out and said, it’s a good idea, it just needs some of the rough edges looked at.

          • Labor (well, the Panel of Experts actually) had a great idea doing FttP for Australia, but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater just because certain parts of it aren’t optimal

            And just like that you’ve exposed the idiocy of the MM again.

          • > Labor (well, the Panel of Experts actually) had a great idea doing FttP for Australia, but don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater just because certain parts of it aren’t optimal, as you’ve now come out and said, it’s a good idea, it just needs some of the rough edges looked at.

            If it was rough edges I might agree with you, but it is the core of how the network will function. When the overwhelming majority support speed tiers because people assume they’ll be able to afford 1Gbps then I doubt the pricing model will change.

            How many people can you find actively pointing out that speed tiers are the biggest issue with Labor’s NBN? Have Wong or Conroy come out and said speed tiers were a mistake? If attitudes change then I might agree with you, but my impression is most people support speed tiers and would prefer data quotas to be removed before speed tiers.

          • So, is ADSL still limited to 1.5Mb? No? Will 1Gb connections always be priced at a premium? I don’t believe so. In every technology the bleeding is priced at a premium at first. Remember unafordable blu ray the no one needed? It’s now a supermarket cheapy. All your idiocy in support of FTTN will achieve, and you have actively supported, stop claiming orherwise, as soon as it was anounced you were claiming it was better because it wouldnt have speed bands,. All your support will achieve, for thoses who take any notice of your OCD rantings, is never to have that option available.

          • @Darren
            Please find a single quote where I’ve said FTTN is superior.

            You can delude yourself that NBN process will dramatically fall but that requires ignoring the NBNco financial plan for ARPU to quickly rise above $100/month.

            When comparing it with Blu-ray technology you compare a competitive industry with a monopoly. A better example would be to compare the NBNco monopoly with Telstra, the monopoly Labor designed it to replace. Telstra’s ADSL pricing barely changed and they blocked speeds faster than 1500kbps. What changed was Internode installing ADSL2+ an option not available with NBNco.

          • Mathew
            Here is a single quote for you
            “In fact if NBNCo dropped speed tiers on FTTN then for that 79% it would be faster than FTTP.”

          • I cannot view the old articles for Delimiter. You were claiming FTTN was the superior. You really are a liar. Change your claims and deny your past false assertions.
            Mathew, I am not deluding myself at all, prices have and always will fall for higher speed bands.

            I notice you never mention your initial selfish reason for wanting not speed bands, you bit torrenting.
            Shut up about that quick smart when you were called out on your self interest didn’t you? Now VDSL2 has speed bands yet you were saying how great it was because it wouldn’t have speed bands.

            Really, fuck of Mathew. Stop turning any thread on anything slightly connected to the NBN into a campaign for cheap high speed connections to benefit yourself.

          • @JasonK Exactly. It’s too hard to search Delimiter and buggered if I am going to waste my time on Captain OCD when anyone here at the time knows he plastered Delimiter and other sites with how good the change to FTTN would be.

          • I know Darren
            He keeps harping on about 1% on 1Gbps by 2026 while the coalition is expecting 1% on 1Gbps by 2020. But then most of the network can’t deliver

          • @Darren
            > I notice you never mention your initial selfish reason for wanting not speed bands, you bit torrenting.

            If I was interested in bit torrenting then I would not be campaigning for the removal of speed tiers. It is very clear that there is tension between charging based on speed or data. If you remove the speed tiers then the data price will need to go up to balance the budget.

            > Really, fuck of Mathew. Stop turning any thread on anything slightly connected to the NBN into a campaign for cheap high speed connections to benefit yourself.

            It makes little difference to me. I can afford whatever speed I want including $20,000 ($10,000 after tax) for FoD. I’m actually concerned about the 79% who are currently being denied the benefits that Labor promised because of a decision that Labor made to introduce speed tiers.

          • @Jason
            > Here is a single quote for you
            “In fact if NBNCo dropped speed tiers on FTTN then for that 79% it would be faster than FTTP.”

            The quote you have provided simply provided evidence of how Labor’s decision to implement speed tiers on the NBN meant that the Liberals could build a network with slower technology which if the speed tiers were removed would deliver faster speeds for more than 79% of the Australian population. The intent was to make people understand the idiocy of Labor’s speed tiers decision. This is a common strategy in debates.

            It did not and was not in any way intended to claim that FTTN is a technically superior connection. The only time I’ve suggested that FTTN should be installed is in rural communities where Labor was planning to replace ADSL with wireless because after changing from FTTN plan they took to the 2007 election due to resistance from Telstra, they preferred to provide rural communities with a lesser service than acknowledge FTTN has a place where FTTP couldn’t be justified.

          • The only people denying the Australian people 1Gb internet speeds are the Coalition and their short sighted fanbois such as yourself.
            Really, why do you keep posting this crap over and over and over. It’s nearly 10 years of it.

            BTW. Trying to impress people with your income are you?
            Maybe you shouldn’t mention we would be funding half your FoD. The poor you say you care so much about don’t get your subsidies. Claiming FoD on tax for bit torrenting personal use, tut tut

          • Lol Mathew
            The quote is you claiming FTTN is faster than FTTP.
            They are not building a network with out speeds teirs so your evidence completely means nothing. But if we use your same twisted logic and average the speed teir take if FTTN guess what it’s slower than FTTP.

            How is claiming FTTN is faster than FTTP is not saying it’s technically superior connection.

          • Mathew
            Let’s use you twisted logic on you 1% on 1Gbps by 2026. If labor change there priceing between then and now and let’s say. We have 1Gbps on $50 plans would again make your argument moot.

          • @Jason
            > The quote is you claiming FTTN is faster than FTTP.

            Yes, I provided an example of how a simple policy change by the Liberals could make the speeds experienced by more than 79% of end users on FTTN faster than Labor’s FTTP plan.

            > They are not building a network with out speeds teirs so your evidence completely means nothing. But if we use your same twisted logic and average the speed teir take if FTTN guess what it’s slower than FTTP.

            Perfectly valid point. My post was a hypothetical suggestion to show how the Liberals could further cripple the FTTP roll out. How many of the 79% would choose FTTN over FTTP if it delivered faster speed to them?

            > How is claiming FTTN is faster than FTTP is not saying it’s technically superior connection.

            Because I was discussing the artificial pricing model that Labor constructed and pointing out that it crippled a technically superior network with speed tiers. When then NBN arrives at my parent’s house they are likely to experience a drop in speed because their current ADSL2+ connection is 16Mbps and being on a pension they will most likely opt for 12Mbps to save money.

          • Lol Mathew
            Look if we remove speed teirs from FTTP it’s faster than FTTN. You claim is failed.

            “My post was a hypothetical suggestion to show how the Liberals could further cripple the FTTP roll out. How many of the 79% would choose FTTN over FTTP if it delivered faster speed to them?”
            Yet we can do that to you 1% 1Gbos claim but you would still harp on about it.

            On know your poor parents what if they get FTTN and only get 12Mbps. you currently expecting them to pay the same as someone getting 100Mbps so instead of saving money they would be spending more.

          • “Yes, I provided an example of how a simple policy change by the Liberals could make the speeds experienced by more than 79% of end users on FTTN faster than Labor’s FTTP plan.”

            And if they took speed tiers off the original FTTP plan, the exact same thing would occur, and customers would have faster speeds than FTTN can provide.

            What is your point? That speed tiers are bad? Or that 25Mbit is 25Mbit regardless of technology? Yes, 79% might be on 25Mbit or less now. But will they be fine on that in 10 years?

            Stop talking about predictions made years ago as if they were accurate and set in stone. You always harped on about 50% on 12Mbit, which we are already seeing was incorrect. More people are choosing 25Mbit or more than originally expected, which was what was required to bring the RoI needed.

          • “I’d like everyone to have access to 1Gbps because I think it could deliver significant benefits to society. ”
            Everyone else is right; to in the same post also say that ‘if we can’t all have 1Gbps for free then only the extremely rich should have it’ is insanity.

            “When the overwhelming majority support speed tiers because people assume they’ll be able to afford 1Gbps then I doubt the pricing model will change.”
            When 1Gbps plans were on offer, they were somewhat below the $10,000 ballpark.

          • @Hotcakes
            > When 1Gbps plans were on offer, they were somewhat below the $10,000 ballpark.

            I’m curious when RSPs offered NBN plans at 1Gbps. I’m not aware of a single retailer who is offering a plan faster than 100Mbps.

          • @R0ninX3ph
            > Stop talking about predictions made years ago as if they were accurate and set in stone.

            The figures might not be set in stone, but at every point in time Labor’s speed tier predictions have been shown to be one of the most accurate parts of the plan. Far more accurate than build timeline and budget. Can you provide any evidence to suggest the predictions are likely to change?

            > You always harped on about 50% on 12Mbit, which we are already seeing was incorrect. More people are choosing 25Mbit or more than originally expected, which was what was required to bring the RoI needed.

            Do you know why more people are choosing 25Mbps? Telstra are not offering 12Mbps. If Telstra had chosen to offer 12, 25 & 100Mbps then I suggest the 12Mbps would be higher than Labor’s predictions.

          • “Do you know why more people are choosing 25Mbps? Telstra are not offering 12Mbps. If Telstra had chosen to offer 12, 25 & 100Mbps then I suggest the 12Mbps would be higher than Labor’s predictions.”

            So?!

            If all the other ISPs follow suit, you’ll see 12Mbit disappear nearly completely, with only people who are using the NBN for phone only on 12Mbit.

            Telstra likely have a reason for not offering 12Mbit, because it isn’t really much cheaper to do so.

      • “All Australians?”
        Of course.

        “Do you include in that the 79% who have willingly chosen 25Mbps or slower on FTTP who won’t experience the real benefits of 1Gbps that Labor promised”
        Of course.

        “Labor planned to spend significant money to build a network for the elite”
        As opposed to the MTMess which spends almost twice to keep the poor on 60+ year old technology AND ups access prices? Where the only solution to get a proper future proof connection now REQUIRES you be a member of the wealthy elite?

        “rejecting FTTN for rural communities”
        Most rural areas are lucky to get dialup, you think FTTN would fare well??

      • Mathew simple question, for now the third time…

        Can you tell us how many Australians have chosen 25Mbps or over…

        GO

        You’re welcome.

        • 15% on Fibre (down 1% since the start of the year. If it follows the same trend as last year, then it will be around 13% at the end of the year.

          The digital divide that Labor created through speed tiers continues to grow wider and disadvantaged group larger.

          • The question Mathew was

            Mathew simple question, for now the third time…

            Can you tell us how many Australians have chosen 25Mbps or over…

            GO

            You’re welcome.

            You gave the wrong answer please try again

          • 15% on Fibre (down 1% since the start of the year. If it follows the same trend as last year, then it will be around 13% at the end of the year.

            And you know why that is, right?

            The digital divide that Labor created through speed tiers continues to grow wider and disadvantaged group larger.

            Wrong, but I’ll see if you actually understand the context of the situation by answering my first question before telling you why.

        • BZZZT. An answer to a question not asked…ROFL.

          Oh dear, ok… I’ll say it slowly just for you for the 4th time now *sigh* M a t h e w… R E A D Y ?

          You claim 79% are on 25Mbps or less…

          Now do the same type of (blinkered/cherry-picked) calculation and tell us all how many are on 25Mbps or higher

          It’s not a trick question, although it may not suit your crusade to actually spit it out…so regardless, don’t be shy.

          By not fessing up you are simply digging the partiality hole deeper and deeper…

          TRY AGAIN… GO

          You’re welcome.

          • And Matty disappears, just like the others do, when the going gets tough…

            WTF is it with these wing nuts?

            Mathew, if you don’t have the facts, conviction or balls to back that big mouth as you clearly don’t… STFU…

            You’re welcome

  7. I bet you all the tea in China, they are damned glad to get out of that Hell Hole!!

    They had nothing to lose.

  8. I echo Renai’s thoughts. I have never been a whistleblower. There is a book that was written about ten years ago that discussed what whistleblowers go through – being smeared, bullied and so on. I’ve forgotten the title.

    If ether of them are reading these comments [you never know] then I want to express my thanks for both of you. You are both better people than I could ever be. You are both better than psychopath charlatans like Turnbull, Faustian yes men like Bill Morrow, or tech ignorant 14th century vandals like Tony Abbott. You can both sleep at night with a conscience. You can both look in the mirror and be proud of what you see. Maybe someday when the legal aspects have settled down and it is all over, you and Renai can meet each other and have a beer.

    • I echo Renai’s thoughts. I have never been a whistleblower. There is a book that was written about ten years ago that discussed what whistleblowers go through – being smeared, bullied and so on. I’ve forgotten the title.

      Me too. Are you thinking of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spycatcher ?

      The case where Malcolm Turnbull successfully defended the release of the book “Spycatcher” in Australia?

      My, haven’t times changed…

  9. Another thing to ponder is when and how the staffers were identified when all material was placed into parliamentary privilege straight away.

    • Yes, I wonder when the AFP will raid the NBN offices to find out the source of the leaks of information held under parliamentary privilege…

        • To authenticate and copy the documents. Apparently, they were all deleted before forwarding to anyone in the LPA though…

          [insert bridge for sale comment here]

  10. The Liberals blew your money faster sooner. Two “NBN” staffers will lose their jobs for exposing the fascists money laundering scheme to Telstra. Blowing our money for faulty copper trash that we already suffer with. To also kill whole economies to save Murdoch.

    Now they’ve blown the money, they won’t be able to buy brand new copper to replace all the trashed copper including to the property. They won’t have money left to maintain it keeping it in it’s current state that Telstra left it in.

    Turdbull ordered it. It’s all his doing to destroy the economy.

    CLASS ACTION PEOPLE.

  11. Perhaps if we all vote Labor these two will get their jobs back. We can at least do that to help them.

  12. This is what is so damning about this whole AFP saga. GimpCo and the coalition clowns wanted all of the employees to be complicit and just as biased against FttP just to bolster their disastrous MTM patchwork plan (just as I predicted). The cretins hiding behind CIC in the Senate Estimates displaying nothing but arrogance & contempt for Australians. Thing is there was always going to be someone, somewhere realising what a farce it was, realising that yes the previous plan was the correct plan, GimpCo stacked the deck but still lost (that should tell us something) but they don’t want to hear that, they don’t want YOU to hear that, best to silence them…

    So is what the CFKD team pinned their hopes on, this idiotic, irrational, illogical plan getting them their slower broadband sooner and what we got was an even BIGGER farce than even we predicted and now it’s becoming apparent to those that the coalition clowns wanted to keep in the dark as much as possible (voters). As I mentioned on the forum this is what I wrote FIVE years ago:

    They sure do; once they’ve finished “destroying” the NBN they then have to convince they Australian public that their patchwork network plan is viable. Once they’ve done that they’ll have to implement it (wasting taxpayers money in he process) by the time the 3 years is up most people will be wondering where their FTTN is and the ones that do have it will be wondering why it is so slow and why the rest of the world is forging ahead with FTTH while we took the cheap luddite inspired option.

    • How about you try to understand why 79% of Australians on FTTP opted for 25Mbps. Possibly if you understand that then you might not have lost your bright shiney fibre.

      • How about you try to

        How about you try to work out why you’re worried about policies that haven’t been in force for three years+

        Seriously. You are a partisan fuck, quit trying to act like you’re the “defender of the people”, it’s gross…

        • You are a partisan fuck, quit trying to act like you’re the “defender of the people”

          That is what is so funny about this autistic mental midget Tinman. Still too stupid to realise a FttN patchwork network doesn’t get him what he claimed he wanted at all. Ever. Remember before the election he was going on about how bad speed tiers were, well here we are with the coalition clowns in charge of GimpCo and they remain on FttN. Time for some damage control and goal post movement from the MM.

          • > That is what is so funny about this autistic mental midget Tinman.

            I suggest that Renai should permanently ban you for an insult of this level.

            > Still too stupid to realise a FttN patchwork network doesn’t get him what he claimed he wanted at all.

            What I’ve stated is that for the 79% connected at 25Mbps on fibre that a switch in technology to FTTN wouldn’t be noticeable. In fact if NBNCo dropped speed tiers on FTTN then for that 79% it would be faster than FTTP. In fact for the 34% opting for 12Mbps it would be up to 8 times faster!

            > Remember before the election he was going on about how bad speed tiers were?

            I still think speed tiers are a very bad idea. I challenge you to find a single statement where I’ve suggested they are a good idea.
            I’d also like your explanation as to why 79% connecting at 25Mbps or slower on a network capable of 1Gbps is a good thing.

          • I still think speed tiers are a very bad idea. I challenge you to find a single statement where I’ve suggested they are a good idea.

            It’s more that you suggest the entire project is a waste of time and money just because it doesn’t meet your standards. Then you point to Google Fibre as the way things should be.

            It’s like you have double standards…

          • > It’s more that you suggest the entire project is a waste of time and money just because it doesn’t meet your standards.

            I don’t remember saying the NBN was a waste of money. I’ve merely pointed out that for the majority of Australians it won’t deliver the benefits that were touted by Labor because these require a minimum of 100Mbps as defined by Labor in the first release of the NBNCo Corporate Plan.

            > Then you point to Google Fibre as the way things should be.

            Labor with Quigley announced just prior to the 2010 election campaign that the NBN would now support 1Gbps in direct response to Google Fibre. My point is that Labor’s NBN plan compared to Google Fibre is like comparing a piece of gravel with a nugget of gold.

          • “I’d also like your explanation as to why 79% connecting at 25Mbps or slower on a network capable of 1Gbps is a good thing.”

            It’s called potential for growth. It’s pretty simple. Fibre gives headroom to grow and would ensure capacity for decades to come. What we have now, does not and will cost us tens of billions AGAIN in the future to bring up to spec. What the LNP is delivering now is worse than if they’d simply come in, counted the x billion already spent as a sunk cost and shut the whole NBN down. Burning tens of billions more on a negligible upgrade that won’t deliver any real benefits is unfathomable.

            It’s an abhorrent waste of resources and time.

          • “I suggest that Renai should permanently ban you for an insult of this level.”
            The description is apt, your immediate jump to censorship is noted.

            You WANT people paying exorbitant amounts to access future proof telecommunications.
            You WANT people to stop saying things you disagree with.

            You ARE advocating fascism.

            “I’ve merely pointed out that for the majority of Australians it won’t deliver the benefits that were touted by Labor because these require a minimum of 100Mbps as defined by Labor in the first release of the NBNCo Corporate Plan.”
            So your answer to people not ‘wanting’ (re: capable of achieving on FTTN) certain benefits is to strip everyone of all of those benefits, unless they are willing to pay 5 figure sums for said benefits.

            Yes, I can see how that would benefit people relying on eHealth etc.

          • For the record I’m quite willing to take a banning for that comment of mine if it means the MM is also banned for continuous and multiple violations of the Delimiter comments policy, specifically:

            Comments which display a lack of rationality or reasonableness.

            and

            Comments which inject demonstrably false information into the debate

            and

            Comments which constantly change the subject to off-topic subjects

          • > Comments which display a lack of rationality or reasonableness.

            Please provide evidence of this. Offering a differing opinion does not mean the comment is wrong.

            > Comments which inject demonstrably false information into the debate

            Please provide evidence where I’ve quoted knowingly false information

            > Comments which constantly change the subject to off-topic subjects

            Possibly, but this harder demonstrate.

          • @ Mathew…

            Firstly let me say as the first person ever banned from Delimiter (AFAIK) I do not want you banned… (you should have seen the Mathews of the day, Deteego, Tosh, alain, all lining up to tell Renai how to monitor my IP address etc to try to shut me up, lol)…

            Anyhoo…

            >Comments which display a lack of rationality or reasonableness.

            “Please provide evidence of this. Offering a differing opinion does not mean the comment is wrong.”

            I’d suggest anyone who relies upon “two estimations (whilst refuting or ignoring all other estimations in the same doc – a doc from circa 2010) at each and every thread and having done so with one estimation alone for about 5 years (and then inadvertently admitting it was wrong after all) but still continuing with such estimations as so called proof.. is displaying extreme irrationality and extreme unreasonableness.

            > Comments which inject demonstrably false information into the debate

            “Please provide evidence where I’ve quoted knowingly false information”

            I’d again suggest anyone who says Labor (his politicisation, not mine) got it completely wrong but then relies upon “two Labor estimations” (think about it) as his proof… then currently cherry-picking that 79% of consumers are choosing 25Mbps or less, whilst bluntly refusing to acknowledge how many are choosing 25Mbps or above and also refusing to accept that with the slower speeds available from FTTN compared to FTTP that of course people do not have the same choice of higher speeds, because they simply are not available… is indeed knowingly quoting false information.

            > Comments which constantly change the subject to off-topic subjects

            “Possibly, but this harder demonstrate”

            Harder to demonstrate? ROFL not at all…

            I’d again suggest anyone who hijacks and deflects every article why… take this very article for example, in relation to 2 NBN employees being sacked due to AFP raids and once again goes off on the typical “estimations spiel from circa 2010, cherry-picking that 79% of consumers are choosing 25Mbps and talking speed tiers, is indeed… constantly changing the subject to off topic subjects.

            You asked…

            You’re welcome.

        • I don’t agree that his comment is invalid, but I agree that he really, really needs to get with the times.

          I’m fed up with his “Labor this, Labor that” sniping. Labor aren’t running things (as everyone else has noticed). He want’s faster speeds for everyone, but under the LPA crap plan, no one can be guaranteed the speeds he wants…hell, only people within ~300m of a node can even get 100/40.

          I’m over folks thinking the LPA will deliver some sort of utopia, we’ve had three years of them and it’s been hell….the economy is going in the toilet, wages are taking a dive, unemployment has flatlined but you still have folks thinking the LPA is magical.

          I’m over it. If the LPA get another term, Australia is fucked, they’ll line their own pockets and head off like Sol.

          I encourage EVERYONE to actually read independants policies and vote accordingly. The two party thing here is broken.

          • I don’t agree that his comment is invalid

            If he responds to me his comment is invalid. He’s been told already he needs to admit he was wrong before addressing me. He cannot be taken seriously in this debate and has proven that numerous times over the last few years.

            btw I’ve set up email filters for various Delimiter notifications. MM comments are the only ones that go directly into the trash. If you’ve read one you don’t need to read it again, he only has one thing to say copy/pasted regardless of the topic. This article is no different.

            With all due respect tinman feel free to bang your head against the wall and try to reason with a complete and utter retard but I’ll have no part of it, the only response he deserves is the one I’ve given him.

          • With all due respect tinman feel free to bang your head against the wall and try to reason with a complete and utter retard but I’ll have no part of it, the only response he deserves is the one I’ve given him.

            No worries mate, I know how you feel. I respond more to Mathew/Richard/Reality more because of the look of Google searchers that see their posts than anything. Is people find their posts unchallenged, they may think thats the only valid opinion.

            So it’s more about challenging their opinion than beating my head against a brick wall ;o)

          • @TM I for one really appreciate your efforts mate, I’m too bloody angry to respond to most of the libtroll posts these days. My comments got to the point of just hurling abuse because they made me so angry and I decided I didn’t want to get hit with Renai’s ban hammer or sully my own reputation any further.

            I guess that’s a downside of being in the telco industry, I’m seeing the damage the Libs have done on a daily basis and frankly, I’m mad as hell about it.

            I’m even considering handing out how to vote cards for the alp on Election Day despite not being a party member. (The greens aren’t viable in the electorate of casey)

          • Tinman writes:
            “I respond more to Mathew/Richard/Reality more because of the look of Google searchers that see their posts than anything. Is people find their posts unchallenged, they may think thats the only valid opinion.

            So it’s more about challenging their opinion”

            Actually I’ve asked for others to (civilly) express their opinion, challenge understanding and provide additional information. This is tinman’s recent “challenging their opinion” retort:
            https://delimiter.com.au/2016/05/20/nbn-raids-attack-press-freedom-says-media-union/#li-comment-739131

            And below “Seriously, fuck off Mathew…”.

            Charming, he knows his stuff. Googlers will be forever better enlightened;-)

            Derek writes:
            “My comments got to the point of just hurling abuse because they made me so angry and I decided I didn’t want to get hit with Renai’s ban hammer or sully my own reputation any further.”

            You certainly did (do we need a link?). Never an apology. Don’t worry about banning though; FTTHers are the ones demand other’s are banned whilst posting the most vile abuse . Not even this received a warning:
            https://delimiter.com.au/2016/05/18/incredible-interest-nbn-election-issue-says-plibersek/#li-comment-737821

            The stalkers even tried justifying the post. They need their space spaces to invent their own “knowledge”;-)

          • Richard, Your comment is invalid.

            Hey HC hope you don’t mind if I borrow your excellent line occasionally? It’s strangely therapeutic. :D

          • Hey HC hope you don’t mind if I borrow your excellent line occasionally?

            Of course I don’t mind. Actually I wish more of the rational among us would use it. It would save a lot of trouble, clearly you cant reason with the CFKD team as they become even more shrill and delusional.

          • “I’ve asked for others to (civilly) express their opinion”
            As I recall you started throwing sexist and racist comments at people before they started responding to you in kind.

          • @ Richard,

            “Actually I’ve asked for others to (civilly) express their opinion…”

            Yes you indeed have… so I will be the first to support you here, as you have requested civility…

            Err, however Richard, you need to also understand something very pertinent here… the unpleasantness “was started by you”… you need to recognise, accept this and stop blaming everyone else for simply returning the uncivil serve.

            I’ll explain it yet again, as I have more than once before and as you (and I’m sure HC) will recall…

            it all came about on ZDNet some years ago because you simply did not understand the basic protocol/concept of “topical commenting”

            So when I questioned you in relation to something you clearly, factually, wrongly claimed… I then said I believed you were “uneducated” (topically speaking as I tried to explain at the time to curb any unpleasantness, when you objected) .

            However, you then threw all so called civility to the wind (simply because I mentioned the word “uneducated”, no swear words, no mention of female anatomy or DH or anything – “uneducated” was the catalyst).

            You then quite uncivilly for one who claimed to be Mr civil, suggested that you were infinitely more educated (and rattled off supposed qualifications…) than I, more intelligent, (inferred) richer, etc, etc…

            You even suggested that if I were to follow your foot steps, I could not go wrong (but obviously Richard… I’m not intelligent enough [sic] to do that according to you, so what a catch 22 eh?).

            I may be wrong here, but (iirc) I think you also may have suggested I needed to get a job (and maybe even a haircut) … like really?

            Richard you said all of this, even though you don’t fucking know me, you don’t know what I did, do or have done (although I have said previously and I will reiterate with conviction, I can guarantee you, that you or your’s have one of my products in your/their home and I can guarantee you that I do not have any of you people counters, in mine) yet you baselessly chastised me (although I won’t sob abuse and bile as you do – just stating facts). Then you beat your chest and then cried for others to be/remain civil…FFS???

            Like I know I’m basically writing this to no avail because you will neither accept nor agree (even though I supported you in saying you did call for civility) but that’s what occurred… you reap what you sow…

            So Richard you may have a little more in the bank (or maybe not) but If you are so much more educated, you work it out?

            You’re welcome.

          • Actually I’ve asked for others to (civilly) express their opinion

            And when they do, you sneer at them and call them lefty morons, idiots and make like you’re the only one intellectually equipped to understand your convoluted reasoning.

            You are a hypocrite of the highest order.

      • Possibly if you understand that then you might not have lost your bright shiney fibre.

        Seriously, fuck off Mathew. You don’t know me, and you have NFI what motivates me when it comes to the NBN.

        I’m ALREADY on 100Mbps, and 1Gbps at work). I’m just really, really sick of your bitching about “The Labor NBNz” and trying to make out you do it because your “The defender of the people”. You obviously ARE NOT, your just a greedy little prick that wants 1Gbps all to yourself (probably for free like Google offers to lower income people).

        I rate you slightly higher that Richard mostly because he doesn’t want “our” tax dollars spent on “this nonsense” but you at least see the need for better internet access in Australia.

        But you seriously need to discuss this stuff given the CURRENT governance framework, not one from 3-8 years ago.

        • > Seriously, fuck off Mathew. You don’t know me, and you have NFI what motivates me when it comes to the NBN.

          You claim I don’t know you and yet you feel free to make deeply personal attacks without having met me? I find that highly contradictory.

          > You obviously ARE NOT, your just a greedy little prick that wants 1Gbps all to yourself (probably for free like Google offers to lower income people).

          I’m perfectly willing to pay for 1Gbps fibre and could easily pay for FoD even at $20,000 ($10,000 after tax) so I doubt I would qualify for the ‘low income option’.

          > But you seriously need to discuss this stuff given the CURRENT governance framework, not one from 3-8 years ago.

          The current governance framework is very similar to what Labor established, except that CVC pricing has been reduced more quickly than Labor planned reducing NBNCo’s income and reducing the ability to cut speed tiers pricing. Note that this decision was celebrated on this website.

          For the 79% connected at 25Mbps or slower FTTN, HFC & FTTP make little practical difference. For the other 20% there are options like waiting to find out the FTTN performance, moving or FoD.

          • These 79% (a number which you constantly allege) won’t be on those speeds forever. In fact they’ll probably require speeds that are undeliverable on FTTN.

          • When Telstra originally offered ADSL1 with speed tiers is that very few migrated off the 256/64Kbps tier. A few migrated from 512/256Kbps to 1500/512Kbps.

            Labor predicted that very few would migrate from 12Mbps to faster speeds. Currently the 25Mbps are higher than Labor predicted because Telstra are not offering 12Mbps. The number on 100Mbps are significantly lower.

            The 79% is directly verifiable from the NBNCo Website. Your world view might disagree with this, but this is the reality of people voting with their wallets.

          • Yet on ADSL now you have people paying for 1Mbps with other paying the same for 15Mbps. The same “no teir” model your trying to push now. You want people that get the slower speed paying for people getting higher speeds

          • “The number on 100Mbps are significantly lower.”
            15% difference of low speed tiers being on higher speeds is apparently negligible compared to the 4% of high speed tiers being on lower speeds.

          • Mathew let’s revisit one of your queries from above again…

            > Comments which constantly change the subject to off-topic subjects

            “Possibly, but this harder [sic] demonstrate” you said…

            Copy/paste…

            I’d again suggest anyone who hijacks and deflects every article why… take this very article for example, in relation to 2 NBN employees being sacked due to AFP raids and once again goes off on the typical “estimations spiel from circa 2010, cherry-picking that 79% of consumers are choosing 25Mbps and talking speed tiers, is indeed… constantly changing the subject to off topic subjects.

            Just reiterating FYI…

            You’re welcome.

    • This is what is so damning about this whole AFP saga.

      The various parties are tip-toeing around it, but I’m happy to call it. The AFP is a political plaything.

      Who ever gets in next, they need to instigate a federal ICAC.

      I’m also fairly convinced that we need a Royal Commision into both sides of politics (but as we just had one into Labor which resulted in zero convictions, I guess I mean one into the LPA/Nationals…”sunlight is the best disinfectant” and all that…can’t see them being worried…).

  13. Morrow gets $3 million a year for destroying a visionary project and impoverishing all of us, and two public-spirited whistleblowers get the bullet. Tell me that is right.

  14. Having access to documents that prove beyond doubt that your boss is lying through his teeth when he tells the public that all’s well with the MTM NBN?

    Gosh, that would be extraordinarily tempting to leak a few key docs.

    Whoever you are, leakers: thank you. As Renai stated, you have done your nation a great service.

    So.

    The next question: what consequences are there going to be for Morrow, Fifield, and Turnbull as a result of this deception, and the destruction of this key national infrastructure project, at a cost to taxpayers of billions of dollars?

    Were it the private sector, I have no doubt there would be fraud and/or securities charges forthcoming. I presume the politicians have written the laws to give themselves immunity, though.

  15. We must pray that Labor gets wins the election. If they do you can expect a deluge of accountancy reports which hold these scoundrels to account and describe in excruciating detail how much money they have wasted. They must be terrified the Libs will lose.

    • So that in 2026 less than 1% will have 1Gbps connections and the ARPU will be over $100/month?
      You see that as a good outcome?

        • What it means is that rather than the elite being satisfied because they have a fast speed, the elite are disgruntled and campaign for a proper fix.

          This is directly comparable with the school system where the elite have moved their kids to private schools / private hospitals and don’t particularly care about funding the public services.

          For example, the Liberals continued the freeze on medicare payments which means that to maintain their income, many Doctors will increase their gap payments. Those doctors who continue to bulk bill will increasingly see a higher percentage of patients from lower socio-economic groups and feel overworked leading to a two tier system much more quickly than the proposed co-payment. Compare this strategy with the Liberals cutting the CVC pricing reducing income for NBNCo and reducing the flexibility of NBNCo to cut speed tier pricing.

          • Lol Mathew
            so what are you trying to say Mathew with the cut to cvc will reduce the revenue if people used more data?

      • Hmm Mathew not that any of your posts have been on topic at all let alone worth reading but ARPU doesn’t mean what you think nor are implying it does in that post lol.

        (FYI ARPU isn’t a measure of cost! and higher = better)

        • > FYI ARPU isn’t a measure of cost! and higher = better

          Your statement is from the seller’s perspective.
          For consumers ARPU is a reasonable measure of the cost of the service.
          I’m yet to find a person who is happy paying a higher price for a service.

          • Actually if a company (spec a GBE) is pulling in higher than expected revenue its far better for everyone than the opposite! (because they’re in a rare position to be able to set a max cap on profitability and not have the shareholders sack them)

            You’re $100 figure is a mere flight of fancy as well. The figures for the majority FTTP and its 22% coverage hadn’t even hit $45 and NBN Co were looking to discount their fees to RSP’s! Can’t do that if they’re running below expectations eg at a loss like MTM.

          • I’m yet to find a person who is happy paying a higher price for a service.

            And yet a lot of people use Telstra rather than TPG…

            If it was only about price, wouldn’t everyone be with DoDo?

    • We must pray that Labor gets wins the election.

      I’m more “anyone but LPA” about it. The LPA really is the pits. The ALP is “better”, but….hell, the whole “Two Party” thing is broken here.

  16. can’t wait to ID the whinging axe grinders who obviously had too much time on their hands and rather than resign they decided to undermine the good work of 4000 other employees and play bush league politics on the public’s dime. perp walk of shame for these fttp ideologues

    • Oh look, another new copper knuckle dragger has arrived for the election, did the IPA give you a smacko for that post?

    • can’t wait to ID the whinging axe grinders who obviously had too much time on their hands and rather than resign they decided to undermine the good work of 4000 other employees and play bush league politics on the public’s dime. perp walk of shame for these fttp ideologues

      You’re assuming a lot there Dirkina!

      What if the other 3994 employees (LPA approved board aside) agree with them?

    • For work to equal good the outcome actually matters along with the process of getting there.

  17. Very well written.

    This is the essence of democracy and we should all applaud whistleblowers.

    What has gone on with these AFP raids on the Opposition is nothing short of NAZI Germany.

    Doesn’t matter if you vote Liberal or Labor. This kind of behaviour from our Government and law enforcement should be condemned.

  18. Just what is that NBNco is hiding that it needed to go to such unprecedented lengths to stop the leaks just before the election? In the interest of a transparent NBN, one with honest costings, I want to know!

    • Quite simple, wide spread fraud, from the very first review turncoat commissioned the libs and their cronies at NBN have been committing a vast fraud against the Australian ppl just so they could put Telstra back in the driver’s seat and give Murdoch a free run until he can get out of his Foxtel HFC contract in 2020.

      • Yeah, as Derek said, only the largest fraud and corruption scandal in the country’s history, one that was driven directly by our now Prime Minister. The LNP believe truth is whatever you spin it as, but facts remain facts, not just interpreted opinion. In a court of law they will be nailed to the wall, it’s just a matter of finding the political will to investigate and prosecute.

        Personally I very much hope with these raids the LNP have crossed a line – both major parties are extremely reluctant to go after politicians where there is potential to damage the office or the institution – for all the bickering and referrals to the AFP, they’re always concerned about potential blowback. A criminal investigation into the PM, or even an ex-PM, might be a step too far. But raids against Conroy will at least make such a decision more palatable.

      • Quite simple, wide spread fraud, from the very first review turncoat commissioned the libs and their cronies at NBN have been committing a vast fraud against the Australian ppl just so they could put Telstra back in the driver’s seat and give Murdoch a free run until he can get out of his Foxtel HFC contract in 2020.

        +1

        #AustraliaBananaRepublic

  19. Something that just occurred to me. The published leaks seemed to have been to the news organisations, yet the ALP offices were the ones raided. I wouldn’t be surprised if there weren’t some documents sent to them by someone within the NBN organisation with the intention of having them found. Finding copies of stuff already published, well of course Conroy, etc, would have a copy, they were linked in the new items. Having a security person from NBN Co looking to identify the documents… sounds like he knew exactly which documents he was looking for. While he was at it sending pics of the Labor NBN policy back to the NBN LNP cheer squad was a bonus.

    • A couple of the leaks were from the ALP, but your right, not all of them were.

      But this is all political. The AFP is complicit. We really do need a federal ICAC, and the AFP need to answer to them, not the Attorney General.

    • “one person’s freedom fighter is another person’s terrorist”

      You will not find the Coalition ever refer to these guys as whistleblowers. Only the companies who cooperated with Turnbull’s pre-election narrative and quickly got payed more money post election were whistleblowers…

    • I agree with Darren. The LPA would only offer whistleblower status to those that blew the whistle on Labor.

      We’d need a federal anti-corruption board to give an independent view to make sure people are covered, and we know the two major parties won’t back that idea (although the ALP did seem to do OK from the anti-union RC…there were a lot of charges, but zero convictions…not sure what they’d be worried about).

    • Nope… if anything we actually passed laws to make Whistle Blowing illegal!

      It was rushed through parliament last year as a “security” law wherein any “leaks” of information that may be detrimental to the government is classified as a felony.

      It was originally targeting the lawyers/leaks from the HRC about overseas detention but obviously it’s an open field day when anybody can declare a leaked document for the public good is “illegal”. We were assured “protection” for whistleblowers/sources… yeah we all believed that one too

  20. If NBN Co said they couldn’t identify the sources from their own investigations, and if all the material obtained by the AFP from the raids has been sealed under the claim of parliamentary privilege, what was the basis for standing down the employees?

    • If NBN Co said they couldn’t identify the sources from their own investigations, and if all the material obtained by the AFP from the raids has been sealed under the claim of parliamentary privilege, what was the basis for standing down the employees?

      Good point.

      I guess they’ll be stood down on full pay until the Senate reconvenes after the election and they can actually take a look at the evidence.

  21. Couldn’t have said it any better myself Renai, and to any other NBN employee reading this, please we emplore you let the truth come out, the truth will set us all free of this awful mess.

    • Now its all based on who wins Govt.

      If its Labor you can expect a return to a Quigley like board where they no longer hide the important data good or bad, because the bad can be squarely laid at MT and the LPA’s door.

      If its the LPA then we’re just flat out screwed, leaking will embarrass the LPA but it won’t change anything (so potentially not worth sacrificing ones job over).

      • “(so potentially not worth sacrificing ones job over)”

        I do understand what you are saying. But, aren’t some things more important than just having a job? National infrastructure is i believe one of those things. Our elected officials demonstrably lying to us is i believe another.

        I would like to think if i were in their position i would be doing all i could to get the truth out. But as you say they must weigh up the pros and cons for themselves.

        Cheers.

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