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  • News, Telecommunications - Written by on Monday, January 28, 2013 11:30 - 134 Comments

    NBN Co offers $108 bounty on new customers

    boba-fett

    news The National Broadband Network Company has kicked off what it described as a “promotional” initiative which will see it pay retail Internet service providers $108 per end user customer who signs up to the network by the end of June, a period shortly before the next Federal Election is to be held.

    The news was first reported over the weekend by The Australian newspaper, and is detailed in a letter to ISPs from NBN Co sent last week (PDF), as well as an update to the company’s product catalogue document (PDF) which describes the way it interacts with its retail ISP partners.

    The updated document states: “Subject to the conditions in this section 3.2, NBN Co will provide to Customer [the ISPs] a Trial Migration Offer Credit for each eligible activation which occurs during the program period.” NBN Co’s document explicitly states that the purpose of the ‘Trial Migration Offer Credit’ is “to encourage higher rates of activation and use” of the company’s services, and that it expects value from the deal to be passed on by ISPs to end user customers – although NBN Co left open in the contract terms how ISPs would choose to do that.

    The new customer bounty applies to broadband customers who sign up to NBN Co’s fibre or wireless service before 30 June this year, and NBN Co has stipulated a short number of areas where it applies, although it noted it may also add other fibre- or wireless-serving areas as it chose. The offer will see the ISPs paid $108 for each customer they sign up during the period – as long as the customers concerned stay with the NBN network for at least four months.

    NBN Co has not yet responded to a request for comment on why it’s pursuing the offer, although the company told The Australian that it was one of a number of “standard promotional activities” to help ensure a smooth migration to the NBN infrastructure.

    The timing of the end of the promotional offer to boost the NBN’s take-up at the end of June comes shortly before the Government is likely to call the next Federal Election, a major event which will determine much of the future of the NBN project as a whole.

    The extent to which NBN Co has rolled out its network by the time of the next Federal Election is expected to be a critical factor determining the overall future of the project. Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has repeatedly indicated that he does not see value in the project and may halt or cancel it. Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has taken a more moderate approach to the project; however, Turnbull currently prefers a more limited fibre to the node rollout, compared to the fibre to the home deployment under the current NBN model. It is unclear to what extent the Coalition will continue with the current FTTH NBN deployment, should it take power at the next election.

    In addition, the release of the offer comes as NBN Co is under pressure at the moment to show that it is delivering on its promises when it comes to the speed of its rollout and the uptake of its infrastructure.

    Up until the latter quarter of last year, NBN Co was believed to have been making relatively slow progress on deploying its network, as it had primarily been in the planning stage of the deployment. However, subsequent to that period, the company was believed to have entered what it described as its rapid ramp-up phase, where it planned to have some 758,000 premises completed or commenced by the end of 2012.

    NBN Co’s progress to the end of September appeared to show the company had not at that point started rapidly accelerating its network deployment, with the company at that stage only having passed slightly over 50,000 premises since it started deploying its network, and 179,790 satellite and fixed wireless premises. The company did not break up its satellite and wireless technologies into different figures, despite the fact that the technologies are completely unrelated in terms of NBN Co’s rollout.

    In the quarter to 30 September this year, NBN Co only completely deployed fibre to a further 13,000 premises past where the network had previously been established — in the quarter to 30 June this year it had already reached 39,000. It had deployed 18,000 premises by 30 June 2011, the year previously.

    NBN Co’s September statistics with respect to the number of premises it has active services at (where customers are actually using its network) similarly showed the company is making slow progress. At 30 September this year the company had just 6,358 fibre customers, and some 17,648 satellite and fixed wireless customers (again, here the company did not break up its satellite and wireless numbers). The company added only a few thousand active fibre services in the three months to 30 September.

    Over the past month, NBN Co has repeatedly declined to release new data showing how its performance has been in the three months to the end of December, despite the fact that the company has committed to releasing new rollout and uptake data on a quarterly basis. A Freedom of Information request has been filed requesting the data.

    opinion/analysis
    Let’s not beat around the bush here. There is only one reason why NBN Co would want to kick off this kind of “promotional” offer to incentivise retail ISPs to sign up customers faster. The company obviously feels that take-up of its new network infrastructure is not going as fast as it could be, and it wants to accelerate adoption. I’m not sure to what extent NBN Co is doing this as a result of the political situation, but there is no doubt as to the overall intent of the offer.

    To what extent is this legitimate? Personally I do not believe it is a legitimate activity. NBN Co should not have to incentivise people to sign up to its network. The infrastructure represents a huge improvement in basic broadband service delivery over that previously offered in Australia, and it also offers retail ISPs the chance to escape Telstra’s last mile monopoly. There is more than enough incentive for retail ISPs to switch their customers on to the NBN as soon as possible and for end users to pressurise their customers to let them join ASAP; I don’t think cash incentives are appropriate. Almost all Australians will eventually sign up to the NBN anyway as the copper and HFC networks of Telstra and Optus are closed anyway; what is the point of offering ISPs cash incentives to push customers to sign up early?

    Of course, others will have alternative viewpoints on the situation. It is possible to argue that by boosting uptake of its infrastructure in this manner, NBN Co will create more early adopters who will act as informal evangelists who will help spread the word about how great its network is, and accelerate the overall rate of adoption. Getting more people on NBN Co’s network earlier will obviously allow it to recoup its capital and operating costs sooner; this means that it is possible that the $108 bonus won’t actually cost it anything in the long run. In this context, there’s not much reason not to pursue this kind of scheme. And these are persuasive arguments.

    However, personally I feel the Government and NBN Co are already doing enough with the buildout of the NBN. They shouldn’t have to hand out cash incentives as well to get ISPs to encourage people to sign up.


    Update: NBN Co has issued the following statement in relation to the initiative:

    “It’s not uncommon for retailers and wholesalers to work together across the Telecommunications industry, and we have been doing just that with this common goal of ensuring a smooth migration to the NBN.

    After a number of months of discussions with our Retail Service Provider customers, this limited trial in a limited number of areas was an initiative we agreed to test.

    The quicker users migrate across to the NBN the quicker we can start accruing revenues from them which is good for consumers and good for taxpayers. Also we are doing it now because in a number of areas end users have already been given notice that the copper is to be disconnected within 18 months. We want to encourage an early and smooth migration.

    We want to understand how effective each type of promotion we do is. That’s why we’re trialling this particular activity in a handful of areas for a limited time.”

    Image credit: Still of Boba Fett from Star Wars

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    1. Kevin Davies
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 12:03 pm | Permalink |

      They have billions – it’s not like its going to cost us anything. When its finished they will be pulling in $280 million a month by my conservative estimates so bring it on! It is probably just a incentive to stop ISP’s dragging there feet now there is real money on the table.

      • alain
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 12:55 pm | Permalink |

        Well it’s certainly an incentive to try and get your luke warm active connection rate up.

        • NBNAlex
          Posted 28/01/2013 at 1:47 pm | Permalink |

          And you don’t think that ISP’s/RSP’s are perhaps, just perhaps avoiding transferring clientele to the NBN?

          After all, if RSP’s start advertising we’ll connect you to the NBN, then they risk their clientele shopping around and perhaps finding a better deal. So I believe they may have decided the status quo is safer.

          This will give them a reason to act.

          And before you start with your typical, anticipated, standard adolescent reply…, no I do not have evidence to prove this and funny enough, neither do you to disprove it ;)

          http://delimiter.com.au/2013/01/28/nbn-co-offers-108-bounty-on-new-customers/#comment-569968

          • Mathew
            Posted 28/01/2013 at 2:26 pm | Permalink |

            Actually I would have thought the exact opposite situation existed.

            If an RSP has a customer currently under contract, then they can offer to transfer that customer to the NBN at zero cost, with the only change being that the contract term will be extended to 24 months from the date of transfer. This safely locks the customer in through the state of change, which is highest point of risk for customer loss.

            I’d suggest that Internode have been very active in promoting free mobile services and heavily discounted bundling offers for exactly this reason.

            • NBNAlex
              Posted 28/01/2013 at 2:44 pm | Permalink |

              As usual we will have to agree to disagree then won’t we Mathew:)

              Because I live roughly in the vicinity of one of the NBN areas (not available to me) and I can honestly say, I have not heard/seen one local radio or TV advertisement from Internode.

              I have heard Telstra NBN adverts on local radio though…

              But of course a lot of people on current Telstra contracts are with them because they have no choice (I am closer to the big smoke than them and I have the choice of Telstra or Optus for ADSL2 – but Optus never have any availabilities – so it’s in reality, Telstra only, for me) and being so, they “could” be waiting to churn to another RSP/not wanting another 24 month Telstra contract.

              Of course this is conjecture, but based upon what I would/will probably do myself, so…

              • Steven
                Posted 28/01/2013 at 6:27 pm | Permalink |

                “I have not heard/seen one local radio or TV advertisement from Internode.”

                Might that be because Internode don’t generally advertise?

                Why would any RSP that is signed up to sell NBN connections and has the interconnects in place not want to sell NBN connections (to existing or prospective customers)?

                • NBNAlex
                  Posted 28/01/2013 at 6:40 pm | Permalink |

                  @ Steven, Mathew suggested Internode were actively promoting, so…unless they are preaching to the converted, without going “old school”, they won’t lure the typical Telstra customer, will they?

                  Also, “if” an ISP is making as much from their own DSLAM or for that matter Telstra’s DSLAM, than they would from NBNCo, why would they willingly change people over?

                  Perhaps they have been waiting for a possible inducement…?

                  I’m not saying any of this “is” the case (I actually initially said perhaps, twice). Where I outlined the “possibility” of, if an RSP sends clientele literature about transferring to the NBN, the client may then decide, hmm, if I’m going to change I’ll shop around and get the best deal… and the RSP may lose clientele.

                  All hypothetical and yes I know this is an evidence based forum, but surely on topic hypothetical possibilities being thrown out for general discussion, is acceptable :)

                  • Steven
                    Posted 29/01/2013 at 1:59 am | Permalink |

                    Internode are promoting the bundles and the summer sim campaign through their website, emails, direct mail to (some) customers, social media platforms and the like.

                    “Also, “if” an ISP is making as much from their own DSLAM or for that matter Telstra’s DSLAM, than they would from NBNCo, why would they willingly change people over? ”

                    Internode and iiNet make/made less than $7 per month margin on Telstra Wholesale ADSL in 2011-2012 – there is no way that margins would be anywhere near that low on the NBN. As for margins on their own DSLAMs, they’re unlikely to be much different to NBN based margins particularly given the speed and reliability advantages (which reduces support costs).

                    • alain
                      Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:35 am | Permalink |

                      @Steven

                      ‘ As for margins on their own DSLAMs, they’re unlikely to be much different to NBN based margins particularly given the speed and reliability advantages (which reduces support costs).’

                      I don’t agree with you on that one at all, their margins on their own DSLAM based plans would be very good, a lot of that equipment has been in exchanges for many years now so its written down value would be low or even negligible, with Telstra Wholesale line pricing set by the ACCC, so its better margins for each year progressing from the original install date.

                      Naked DSL is really a margin winner, have you seen how little they have to pay Telstra for a ULL?

                      • Steven
                        Posted 30/01/2013 at 2:17 am | Permalink |

                        “Naked DSL is really a margin winner, have you seen how little they have to pay Telstra for a ULL?”

                        Have you? $16.21 + Operation and Maintenance + rental for the cables within the exchange that they paid for which were then instantly signed over to Telstra and which have to be paid for by the “renter” if broken + power cost + TEBA rental + power + cooling + … compared to $24 for an AVC, I doubt there’s much difference.

                      • NBNAlex
                        Posted 09/02/2013 at 5:41 pm | Permalink |

                        I’d suggest that simply, the NBN being superior is the big difference :)

                • alain
                  Posted 28/01/2013 at 6:43 pm | Permalink |

                  Their margins are better on their own DSLAM based ADSL2+ Plans especially Naked DSL perhaps?

                  • alain
                    Posted 28/01/2013 at 6:45 pm | Permalink |

                    I was beaten to the slot, that was in answer to this:

                    ‘Why would any RSP that is signed up to sell NBN connections and has the interconnects in place not want to sell NBN connections (to existing or prospective customers)?’

                    • NBNAlex
                      Posted 28/01/2013 at 6:55 pm | Permalink |

                      Oh no, did we just give the same answer…LOL

                      • alain
                        Posted 28/01/2013 at 8:16 pm | Permalink |

                        If only I had FTTH I would have beaten you. :)

                      • NBNAlex
                        Posted 28/01/2013 at 8:23 pm | Permalink |

                        Indeed… LOL

              • Mathew
                Posted 28/01/2013 at 6:49 pm | Permalink |

                > Because I live roughly in the vicinity of one of the NBN areas (not available to me) and I can honestly say, I have not heard/seen one local radio or TV advertisement from Internode.

                Internode tends to advertise through word-of-mouth and technical sites as I would suggest that they see a better return on investment using these channels. I used Internode as they have been my ISP for 14 years now and so I’m familiar with their services. iiNet would be a better comparison to Telstra for a mass marketing approach.

                My key point is that Internode have changed their plans to strongly emphasise bundling in the last 18 months.

                • NBNAlex
                  Posted 28/01/2013 at 6:58 pm | Permalink |

                  Point taken :)

    2. Ryan Baker-Smith
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 12:14 pm | Permalink |

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this “bounty” less than what NBN Co has to pay Telstra to migrate premises as the copper network is disconnected?

      If so, then it would make perfect sense for NBN Co to encourage RSPs to migrate customers who might not have ordinarily switched straight away.

    3. Hubert Cumberdale
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 12:15 pm | Permalink |

      “Personally I do not believe it is a legitimate activity. NBN Co should not have to incentivise people to sign up to its network.”

      I agree and I doubt this will have much impact since other factors are involved.

    4. Gav
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 12:24 pm | Permalink |

      Sounds like a regular marketing expense. The desire to get ‘network effects’ in tech is pretty strong because the benefits can be so good. If the plan works, the exercise will pay for itself.

    5. Cameron
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 12:30 pm | Permalink |

      Why might NBNco doing this?

      From the article Renai, you have said they are targetting certain areas. What consideration has been given to the demographics of those areas?

      Maybe NBNco are wanting to get the takeup rate high enough in select areas that they overcome the any self-selection bias. This could then be used to get an updated statistical model for the wholesale AVC spread.

      NBNco may then be able to rejig the wholesale cost tables for AVC and CVC, as has been promised if they look to deliver greater than the 7% IRR.

      Sure it looks like it could be in response to election timings, but that isn’t a bad thing. I would like to know that when I voted I had the most up to date and relevant information at hand regarding what I consider one of the nation’s most significant infrastructure projects.

    6. Abel Adamski
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 12:40 pm | Permalink |

      I believe it is legitimate, after all incentives are offered by businesses to their retailers as a normal business practice.

      I also agree with HC, there is a largely negative viewpoint by the MSM readers/viewers, with wireless, the major Rural player with internet (from dial up to ADSL and wireless), home phone and best and widest mobile phone coverage has theiri attractive bundles that in so many areas due to their mobile coverage cannot be matched.
      Telstra strangely won’t be offering Wireless NBN plans until at least mid 2013.
      Also their NBN plans as well as being expensive tend to require land line rental on top thus discouraging NBN uptake.
      IMO The $11Bill is peanuts to Telstra and their News Ltd partners, they are playing for a Vertically integrated unchallengable monopoly free of ACCC oversight structured around FTTN and Top Hats where their competitors are trapped into being resellers. Of course they will require incentivisation and large ongoing subsidies on top of the nice latest technology infrastructure assets installed, up and running of the NBN at bargain basement prices.

      Very smart people with the coup of the century, just need gullible ideologically blinded fanatics in government
      Worth many 10′s of $Billions over the decades

      • Kevin Davies
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 1:01 pm | Permalink |

        “just need gullible ideologically blinded fanatics” – clarify?

        • Abel Adamski
          Posted 28/01/2013 at 3:24 pm | Permalink |

          A) The Coalition believes that it should all be in the hands of the private sector, they have an antipathy to GBE’s. MT may indicate they would proceed, however that is stated to be with private sector involvement and maintaining and expanding HFC etc even though TA and JH are more interested in stopping the NBN and providing improved broadband by incentives and subsidies. GBE being corrupted, return is crippled, debt now on budget and promises to return budget to surplus, the expectation of the supporters, the requirements of their major supporters they literally have no other realistic choice.

          B) Howard reversed Keatings in process separation of Telstra who blithely set about installing Rims and offered us 256Kb or 512Kb DSL, the only reason we have as good as we have is the ACCC enforcing access for competitor fibres and DSLAMS after a protracted bitter fight forcing Telstra to compete, so thank iiNet, TPG and Pipe Networks etc. Note the services available at Bris South, the Telstra estates etc.
          The Libs did nothing, leaving it all to the private sector all the while happily subsidising Telstra’s network in Rural Aust which is now creating competition issues

      • alain
        Posted 29/01/2013 at 8:49 am | Permalink |

        @Abel Adamski

        ‘.IMO The $11Bill is peanuts to Telstra and their News Ltd partners,’

        Are you on some sort of political crusade, why is it always ‘Telstra and their New Ltd partners, if you look at the Telstra share holder list you could say ‘Telstra and their Superannuation Company partners’ or ‘Telstra and their Mums and Dads partners – but it doesn’t quite have the same agenda driven emphasis though does it?

        ‘they are playing for a Vertically integrated unchallengable monopoly’

        Perhaps you can explain how a vertically integrated monopoly exists after legislation was passed in Parliament for Telstra to be operationally separated by the Howard Government in June 2006 and legislation recently passed to structurally separate Telstra by Conroy and recently ratified by the Telstra share holders, not only that the Coalition supported the structural separation of Telstra.

        ‘ free of ACCC oversight’

        The ACCC is being dissolved post a Coalition win? – which is interesting seeing as they want to increase the ACCC’s powers if they win the next election?

        ‘Coalition will boost ACCC power on petrol price signalling’

        http://www.afr.com/p/national/coalition_will_boost_accc_power_5flfOjZcKlps1279AzDocI

        ‘ around FTTN and Top Hats where their competitors are trapped into being resellers..’

        You mean like being trapped into being NBN Co infrastructure resellers, where there is no alternative fixed line at all, not even HFC BB?

        • tinman_au
          Posted 06/02/2013 at 6:04 pm | Permalink |

          They aren’t partners via holding shares in each other, they’re partners “old school” by each owning 50% of Foxtel.

        • tinman_au
          Posted 06/02/2013 at 6:22 pm | Permalink |

          “You mean like being trapped into being NBN Co infrastructure resellers, where there is no alternative fixed line at all, not even HFC BB?”

          Exactly, only NBNCo’s prices are fixed and over sighted by the ACCC from the start.

          Just out of interest (cause I see you keep saying it like it’s everywhere), how pervasive do you think HFC actually is?

          My understanding is Telstra/Optus only covered certain parts of Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Sydney, Adelaide and the Gold Coast with it before they gave up (1995-97), and even there it’s fairly limited to the area it covers. It’s pretty limited coverage for $7B between them really…

    7. Posted 28/01/2013 at 12:43 pm | Permalink |

      “…what is the point of offering ISPs cash incentives to push customers to sign up early?

      I would have though it rather obvious: Improved revenue.

      Based on their wholesale pricing, NBN Co earns a minimum of between $24 and $37 per customer, per month depending on the speed tier. The copper isn’t switched off for 18 months, meaning they stand to lose $430-660 for every customer who waits the 18 months rather than migrating in the first month.

      Seems like a pretty good return on investment for NBN Co to pay $108 and potentially earn $660 in additional revenue.

      The fact that they limit the bonus to the first 6 months, and require a minimum connection time of 4 months means they can’t really lose money on the deal.

      • Frank
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 1:16 pm | Permalink |

        What is to say they would not be connecting now anyway rather then in 18 months time.

        Plus the timing of it may indicate there are political ploys at play here.

        For something that is a monopoly paying to get customers you will get eventually seems rather silly. Well the way they have gone about the NBN is silly anyway.

        • NBNAlex
          Posted 28/01/2013 at 1:39 pm | Permalink |

          Really…

          You don’t think paying $108 per connection which will be repaid in a matter of months, is wise to fast track revenue?

          Funny businesses have sales/incentives all the time, but as usual, some ignore reality and single out the NBN :/

          • Michael
            Posted 28/01/2013 at 3:48 pm | Permalink |

            and the NBN has all this positive cash flow lying around with which to spend on marketing instead of expanding its capacity…………

            • NBNAlex
              Posted 28/01/2013 at 4:15 pm | Permalink |

              You have to crawl before you can walk…

              • alain
                Posted 29/01/2013 at 9:29 am | Permalink |

                Well you have to get the active connections out of crawl status somehow, going into the election with key changes to the current NBN policy proposed by the Coalition it is important to try and alleviate being beaten up with tardy active connections figures right up to election day.

        • Harimau
          Posted 28/01/2013 at 5:56 pm | Permalink |

          “What is to say they would not be connecting now anyway rather then in 18 months time?”
          What is to say they would?

          But you know, there’s a number of things that would prevent people from connecting now:
          - They aren’t currently able or willing to pay the connection fee.
          - They are currently locked in to a contract.
          - They procrastinate.
          The first two issues can be overcome by the ISP offering a temporary free connection or free change-of-service, the costs of which would be recouped by the $108 bounty.
          A connection discount and high visibility of the discount, is fairly good incentive for overcoming that last one.

        • OtherDave
          Posted 28/01/2013 at 10:49 pm | Permalink |

          While the timing (pre-election) is obvious the motive, I believe, is less to do with helping Labor to remain in power and more to do with having a larger client base and thus greater leverage to remain intact if LNP win the election.

          I think I will do both.

          • OtherDave
            Posted 28/01/2013 at 10:50 pm | Permalink |

            correction to my last line.
            Should read…

            I think IT will do both.

      • goldie444
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 2:52 pm | Permalink |

        +1

      • Harimau
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 5:46 pm | Permalink |

        I wish I’d done the math like you have. Now I’m convinced that the two reasons I outlined in my post below are secondary, and improved revenue is the greatest incentive. Makes perfect sense to me.

    8. Kevin Cobley
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 1:21 pm | Permalink |

      Legislation should have enabled free transfer of all existing ADSL contracts automatically to NBN, to avoid problems when copper closed. When copper closes every granny under the sun is going to be complaining ” My phone is gone dead” “We didn’t know the phones would go dead” “I want my phone back I don’t want the NBN”. NBN co needs the resources to fix these issues as they arise so early take up is essential.

      • goldie444
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 3:12 pm | Permalink |

        @ Kevin Cobley

        “Legislation should have enabled free transfer of all existing ADSL contracts automatically to NBN,”

        Good point Kevin, I have started to think the transfer process to the NBN, should allow any cooper contract to be cancelled with no penalty. Thus if an ISP was a bit slow in moving their clients to the NBN, their clients could go to another ISP to sign up for an NBN connection. This would incentivise retail ISPs more than just the $108 bonus.

        • NBNAlex
          Posted 28/01/2013 at 3:24 pm | Permalink |

          Interesting thought, but perhaps pushing the legal boundaries just a bit too much!

      • alain
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 5:11 pm | Permalink |

        @Kevin Cobley

        ‘ to avoid problems when copper closed. When copper closes every granny under the sun is going to be complaining ” My phone is gone dead” “We didn’t know the phones would go dead” “I want my phone back I don’t want the NBN”.’

        It won’t work suddenly like that, you need to read the Telstra/NBN Co agreement on what has to take place before a exchange and the copper link is shut down.

        When the NBN Co has declared a region (approximately 3000 premises) Ready for Service which cannot happen until at least 90% in the region footprint are passed by NBN fibre, Telstra has 18 months from the date of that declaration to disconnect the copper.

        This will be published by the NBN Co and Telstra well in advance as to what date the copper will be shut down region by region, both direct to the residence and in the media.

        Early within that 18 month time period residents and most likely well before then will have their current ISP/ voice provider notify them of the nearest equivalent package under the NBN regime they will be migrated to if they opt to do nothing if they don’t choose another plan or ISP and voice provider.

        I am sure all ISP’s will be trying VERY hard to retain all their customers intact that they had under ADSL, HFC and PSTN, I expect the door knocking and adverting will be at a frenzy. :).

        • alain
          Posted 28/01/2013 at 5:15 pm | Permalink |

          * oops -advertising not adverting.

        • NBNAlex
          Posted 28/01/2013 at 6:01 pm | Permalink |

          +1

          I am the first to criticise but, I’m also the first to give credit. I actually enjoyed reading your post alain.

          I do think Kevin maybe aware that the copper isn’t going to shut down immediately, but he still may be correct in some instances, even 18 months down the track. But if NBNCo get the word out there, as you say, the problems should be (hopefully) minimised.

          An interesting off-shoot, if the copper isn’t being shutdown for a further 18 months and without inducement, it could indeed hamper uptake for a further a8 months? With ISP’s/RSP’s playing it safe and keeping customers where they are, stragglers and especially those as outlined by Harimau below, perhaps not migrating until the last minute, whether they know it will be an improvement or not.

        • alain
          Posted 29/01/2013 at 8:54 am | Permalink |

          For those that are interested Telstra Wholesale has the list as to when they anticipate copper will be shut off region by region.

          http://www.telstrawholesale.com.au/download/document/rollout-list.pdf

    9. CMOTDibbler
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 1:42 pm | Permalink |

      I thought we were being told take up is going well and is ahead of forecasts in the corporate plan. Why then the need to offer incentives to ISPs to transfer customers?

      When the payment period ends the incentive for ISPs is to migrate as few customers as possible until the next payment period starts. If this is going to be normal practice it could backfire.

      Whether it is political or not is not really relevant. Having it run up to the end of the reporting period prior to the election will mean it is perceived as political anyway. The Coalition will be reminding people of this.

      • Asmodai
        Posted 31/01/2013 at 3:55 pm | Permalink |

        Oh come now Cmot, don’t bring common sense or occam’s razor in to this… Why would the simplest and most obvious solution be the correct one when the fanbois can come up with ever more convoluted explanations or strawmen (like the whole side discussion about Internode…) to dismiss the patently obvious.

        If you have to incentivise something (ie. to de-pollie speak it, bribe), it’s obviously not getting the take up figures they want to see. This is after how many years of true believers telling us that FTTH would sell itself, wireless and ADSL (and FTTN) were crap/stone age and that fibre broadband was such a huge priority for so many people…

        • Posted 31/01/2013 at 9:06 pm | Permalink |

          @Asmodai

          Tell me, are NBNCo. a business? Do they not charge money to make a profit other than for a small subsidised section of the satellite network? Do they not need to build their network as efficiently as possible WHILE bringing in as much revenue as possible to lower debt requirements?

          If the answer to any or all of those is yes, how is incentivising take up, LIKE EVERY OTHER BUSINESS DOES not a valid business decision?

        • NBNAlex
          Posted 09/02/2013 at 6:33 pm | Permalink |

          “If you have to incentivise something (ie. to de-pollie speak it, bribe), it’s obviously not getting the take up figures they want to see.”

          Interesting that in relation to the alternate FttN and subsidies thereof, the word incentivise crops up too… so that companies who have said fuck you in the past,, then have a greedy reason to become interested… but of course that incentivise is most ok eh *rolls eyes*

        • Tinman_au
          Posted 09/02/2013 at 7:10 pm | Permalink |

          Telstra “incentivise” people still, and they have more broadband customers than anyone.

          Given your conjecture, how do you rationalise that?

    10. Gordon Drennan
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 2:18 pm | Permalink |

      You all know I don’t think NBNCo is doing the NBN well. I think it ought to step back, get more consumer involvement or consumer marketing expertise to replace the fanboys cheering it on no matter how bad a job it does, and rethink its strategy. If its going to do it, it ought to do it in a way that is most likely to get as many people as possible onto it. And the way to do that is to encourage people to get onboard.

      This offering of discounts to ISPs to offer discounts to customers is a good idea. It shows the present NBNCo strategy of producing a high-cost technical-best solution, and expecting people to fall over themselves to buy it is wrong, but this idea of discounts is at least acknowledging that and trying to do something about it.

      They’ve got to get customers onto their network. If they can do that they’ve got a chance of keeping them.

      You lot will almost certainly disagree, because you’re in it for something for yourself, not for the country, a high speed network for you to watch 4KHD movies on, not a ubiquious national one that gives all the poor and the sick and the old a connection to everything, but NBNCo says its getting a higher than expected percentage of signups at the highest speed, so the incentives ought to be for those at the bottom. It ought to just lower prices for the lower speeds. If they can get everyone, or pretty much everyone, onto it, it can be a success, not a white elephant.

      If they don’t do that even cutting off the copper won’t get people onto the NBN. They’ll just go wireless when their landline is cut off. And everyone will be worse off because the NBN will run at a loss, and wireless will be so congested it’ll be useless.

      • Hubert Cumberdale
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 2:42 pm | Permalink |

        “one that gives all the poor and the sick and the old a connection to everything”

        Who are all these poor and sick people? I’m sorry you seem to have mistaken Australia for a third world county… wait, weren’t you the one who said they only need “8 or 6 or even the 2-3 Mb/s”? Amazing, you cant seem to decide which way you want to flop Gordon, though I should consider you also once said “Is the NBN or the Labor party paying for these idiotic stories?” so your agenda is quite apparent and genuine concern for the “sick and poor” is not it.

        You may now go cower in the corner until the next NBN article arrives. Thanks Gordon.

      • Mathew
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 2:43 pm | Permalink |

        > You all know I don’t think NBNCo is doing the NBN well. I think it ought to step back, get more consumer involvement or consumer marketing expertise to replace the fanboys cheering it on no matter how bad a job it does, and rethink its strategy. If its going to do it, it ought to do it in a way that is most likely to get as many people as possible onto it. And the way to do that is to encourage people to get onboard.

        I’d suggest that consumer involvement and consumer marketing expertise are exactly the wrong skill set. The simple reason is that most consumers don’t have a good understanding of the revolutionary potential of FTTH. The second worst skill set is financial controllers, because they will not (as evidenced by the NBNCo Corporate Plan) take the risks necessary to deliver a revolutionary network.

        What you need are *technological visionaries* who can lead us to a better future. In Australia I would nominate Simon Hackett. While he has a financial stake in iiNet after selling Internode he is no longer as indispensable. Simon is qualified both because he is a technological visionary and his long standing actions to put the interest of customers first rather than purely profit.

        The second best alternative is to approach Larry Page and Sergey Brin of Google and simply say “We have $40 billion please build us a really fast fibre wholesale network.” If we look at what Google are building in Kansas ($70/month for gigabit) it makes the NBNCo proposal look mediocre.

        • NBNAlex
          Posted 28/01/2013 at 3:19 pm | Permalink |

          After disagreeing above about Internode/NBN. I actually part agree with you here (for once) Mathew.

          Simon would indeed be an asset to the NBNCo team. It would mean of course him possibly relinquishing any conflict of interest,… but as someone who built up an ISP business working alongside Mike Quigley whose former company has/does roll out networks seems, like a bleedin’ obvious fit.

          I’m surprised no one has mentioned it before.

          Of course however, SH would come at a hefty price and I’m sure the usual suspects couldn’t justify it? Conversely of course, if SH said he do it for free or an average salary, they wouldn’t be happy either, wanting to know his ulterior motive…so:/

          Interesting idea though +1

          Perhaps if elected the Coalition NBNCo team will be Morgan and Ergas (and Hackett)?

      • Hubert Cumberdale
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 5:01 pm | Permalink |

        “a high speed network for you to watch 4KHD movies on”

        btw gordon do you know what’s really funny about this idiotic 4k comment of yours? A year ago you probably didn’t even know what 4k was. A year ago you would have simply said: “a high speed network for you to watch HD movies on”. See how times change and technology progresses requiring more bandwidth even while the NBN is being built? You’ve had to upgrade your comment to make it more relevant. That’s not the only thing that needs upgrading due to progress.

        • NBNAlex
          Posted 28/01/2013 at 5:44 pm | Permalink |

          +1

          How ironic, the detractors, unknowingly disproving their own argument ;)

          Nice HC.

      • Kevin Davies
        Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:16 am | Permalink |

        “a high speed network for you to watch 4KHD movies on” – be careful what you wish for….

        http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/28/japan-plans-to-broadcast-2014-world-cup-in-4k/

    11. Adam Nelson
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 2:52 pm | Permalink |

      The idea of what some ISP should be doing transferring people to the new services automatically and keeping them on existing plans

    12. Posted 28/01/2013 at 4:33 pm | Permalink |

      Update: Just got the following statement from NBN Co on this one:

      It’s not uncommon for retailers and wholesalers to work together across the Telecommunications industry, and we have been doing just that with this common goal of ensuring a smooth migration to the NBN.

      After a number of months of discussions with our Retail Service Provider customers, this limited trial in a limited number of areas was an initiative we agreed to test.

      The quicker users migrate across to the NBN the quicker we can start accruing revenues from them which is good for consumers and good for taxpayers. Also we are doing it now because in a number of areas end users have already been given notice that the copper is to be disconnected within 18 months. We want to encourage an early and smooth migration.

      We want to understand how effective each type of promotion we do is. That’s why we’re trialling this particular activity in a handful of areas for a limited time.

      • NBNAlex
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 4:35 pm | Permalink |

        Thanks Renai…!

        On the ball as usual :)

      • Harimau
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 5:39 pm | Permalink |

        I believe NBNco on this, but I do think it’s only half the reason. The other half is, as anyone mildly cynical could tell you, that it’s a pragmatic decision, but it’s also the correct one. Given all the Coalition FUD (and mainstream media) casting unjustified doubt on the success of the project, as well as the head of the Coalition’s assertions that he would stop the project, this could be an existential crisis for the NBN. The actual existence of the NBN and NBNco hinges on favourable numbers that can serve as a shield against all of the FUD that has been spread.

        Additionally, I do think that take-up rates have been affected by the FUD. Many people do not make a high-level analysis of the service they’re getting or the technology being used, and are impressionable by media or set in their ways due to fear of the unknown or a lack of interest in getting the best deal. Many people don’t even understand the technology, or actually believe the FUD that fibre is an obsolete or inferior technology as compared to the service they already have or, say, wireless. Even if there are sites like Whirlpool that allow for consumers to be more savvy about their ISP and plan choices, the vaster number of people on Telstra BigPond would indicate the fact that internet savvy consumers are not yet the norm. I think that this move is defensive and largely reactive, and therefore perfectly legitimate.

        I expect ISPs to provide cheaper or free connection fees to new customers on the NBN, and perhaps migrate customers who are currently locked into contracts over without a fee. All change must be sufficiently incentivised (otherwise why change?), and for the average (mode) user, “a huge basic improvement in broadband service delivery” and “escaping Telstra’s last mile monopoly” are not sufficient, or personally relevant, incentive.

        But personally I think NBNco also needs to push the telephony angle more strongly.

        • Harimau
          Posted 28/01/2013 at 5:48 pm | Permalink |

          Also what Jamie said… http://delimiter.com.au/2013/01/28/nbn-co-offers-108-bounty-on-new-customers/#comment-569943

        • alain
          Posted 29/01/2013 at 9:20 am | Permalink |

          @Harimau

          ‘Additionally, I do think that take-up rates have been affected by the FUD.’

          No I think it’s much more simpler than that, residents don’t need it, in the same way the highest speed alternative prior to the NBN FTTH rollout Telstra and Optus HFC BB had low take up rates.

          HFC BB would have had high take up rates if you had shut down ADSL in HFC areas.

          • NBNAlex
            Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:03 am | Permalink |

            Trying to keep yesterday’s cordiality continuing, good morning alain.

            You seem to forget, it was ascertained just yesterday that the ISP make more money from clientele on the old network, than they do on the NBN, so surely they are obviously stifling or should I say, not openly promoting migration.

            As I suggested they may be and you clearly agreed that they do…

            http://delimiter.com.au/2013/01/28/nbn-co-offers-108-bounty-on-new-customers/#comment-570056

            So while I was surmising, you appear to have proof that financially, the ISP’s/RSP’s would prefer people to stay exactly where they are, but have no real evidence to suggest people don’t want the NBN. So perhaps if these ISP’s/RSP’s are indeed making more from the current situation, when people call to enquire about the NBN, what do you think the ISP/RSP’s will do. encourage migration so they lose money or discourage (until the 11th hour) so they keep making more money?

            • NBNAlex
              Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:05 am | Permalink |

              Actually, re-reading you did use a ?, so perhaps you were simply suggesting, as I was too :)

      • Adam Nelson
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 10:34 pm | Permalink |

        Having worked for a retail service provider it should be a no-brainier just order a new NBN on customers behalf

      • Gwyntaglaw
        Posted 29/01/2013 at 12:12 pm | Permalink |

        This makes perfect sense. The key players, the real linchpin in bringing about a smooth migration of customers onto NBN fibre, are the RSPs themselves.

        They are the ones that manage the relationships with their customers.

        They are the ones who are in the position of making the migration as smooth and effortless as possible.

        They are the ones who have an existing vested interest in doing everything to keep their existing customer base; and now they have an additional interest in securing this bonus through migrating their customers.

        It makes good business sense for all concerned. It’s a win-win for the RSPs and NBN Co.

    13. Tinman_au
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 6:23 pm | Permalink |

      I think the $108 would be much better spent accelerating the actual rollout.rather than getting folks to sign up for it. I know at least 4 people in my area that would be more than happy to sign up if it were available to us.

      Heck, even a switch over of the Telstra HFC would work for me…I,m not willing to switch to Telstras 100Mbps plan cause I either dont want to get locked in for two years, or the alternative of a new account (followed by another new account when NBNCo finally get here…

      Get it together NBNCo!

      • SMEMatt
        Posted 30/01/2013 at 12:26 pm | Permalink |

        Except just like Abbotts $50Billion the NBN supposedly costs that he wants to build hi ways ect with, there is no $108 to spend speeding up the roll out. All NBN co are doing is declining revenue from these connection for a couple of months to get them to signup earlier than they normally would and like all such deals it won’t cost NBN $108 a connection to do this and getting people signed up earlier has the potential for 2 effects. Speed up the revenue generation for those areas and reduces the amount of people needed to be connected at the last minute when the copper gets turned off which might actually save them money as it reduces peak demand on resources.

        If the NBN was a private enterprise this is exactly what they would do. This is the way NBN co should be run like a private enterprise with very specific instruction from the board(the aust gov.).

    14. Posted 28/01/2013 at 7:57 pm | Permalink |

      What I think you’ve missed Renai, is that the majority of people in Australia STILL dont think past Telstra when it comes to internet services.

      I’d wager if you asked most of the ‘laypersons’ you know that they’re with Telstra for something, purely because they dont know any better.

      I think THATS the problem here NBNCo is attempting to address, not necessarily the uptake directly. They know services are still contracted.

    15. tyson64
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 8:01 pm | Permalink |

      When will non-adsl exchanges ever get it. Just had enough of all these other places go from ADSL to ADSL2+ & now to Optical Fibre and we stay with a telephone exchange a stones through away. What happened to a fair go in the bush. Oh also I don’t live far from the Bruce Highway where they just ran the Optical Fibre through town.

      • tyson64
        Posted 30/01/2013 at 11:32 am | Permalink |

        Nobody ever wants to handle this question…. not even Bigpond, Telstra or NBN (No Bloody Network)…

        • Posted 30/01/2013 at 11:58 am | Permalink |

          Your exchange has nothing to do with the NBN rollout. NBNCo isn’t doing the rollout based upon exchanges, it’s doing it based upon FSAs. So no one can blanket answer “yes non ADSL exchanges will get NBN” because there aren’t going to be exchanges anymore.

          If you want to know if your premises is getting the NBN and what flavour anytime soon use this rollout map: http://www.nbnco.com.au/mobile/rollout/rollout-map.html#map

    16. MikeK
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 8:58 pm | Permalink |

      Are they paying cash or credit to service providers?

      • NBNAlex
        Posted 28/01/2013 at 9:11 pm | Permalink |

        Nicely spotted MikeK, there may not be any upfront impost to NBNCo…

        “Subject to the conditions in this section 3.2, NBN Co will provide to Customer [the ISPs] a Trial Migration Offer Credit for each eligible activation which occurs during the program period.”

        • alain
          Posted 29/01/2013 at 9:55 am | Permalink |

          This bounty and all its costings of course missed the 2012-2015 NBN Co Business plan, what you might call miscellaneous add-ons as we wing it into the next election, best to call it a trial (not that we will ever remove it).

          • NBNAlex
            Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:10 am | Permalink |

            Indeed… so if it’s a credit rather than a cash payment it will reflect positively in relation to the plan estimates, not negatively, as it creates revenue currently not being received!

    17. MikeK
      Posted 28/01/2013 at 11:00 pm | Permalink |

      Ive noticed that ISPs charge an up front migration/installion fee from the customers current plan to NBN fibre plan, hopefully this fee will be cancelled to the end user and credited to the ISP to cover their costs but as the Doc states its up to the ISP.

      [‘Trial Migration Offer Credit’ is “to encourage higher rates of activation and use” of the company’s services, and that it expects value from the deal to be passed on by ISPs to end user customers – although NBN Co left open in the contract terms how ISPs would choose to do that.]

    18. The lone gunmen
      Posted 29/01/2013 at 8:40 am | Permalink |

      Surprise, surprise, Delimiter does not cover the NBN has failed, again, to reach its roll out targets.

      If the NBN so half as good as you make out, why the need to pay a bounty?

      • Walter
        Posted 29/01/2013 at 9:39 am | Permalink |

        “The quicker users migrate across to the NBN the quicker we can start accruing revenues from them which is good for consumers and good for taxpayers. Also we are doing it now because in a number of areas end users have already been given notice that the copper is to be disconnected within 18 months. We want to encourage an early and smooth migration.”

        Did you read the article?

      • NBNAlex
        Posted 29/01/2013 at 9:49 am | Permalink |

        @ TLG…

        Err I haven’t read any articles, anywhere about missed targets lately, so the Delimiter finger pointing is curious to say the least.

        Also as Walter said, did you actually read the article and the subsequent comments or just the headline and frothed at the mouth?

        As MikeK pointed out, it seems a credit not an upfront payment is being offered, so this is an incentive to fast track stragglers, which will gain NBNCo revenue not cost them.

        Seriously, how hard is that to understand?

        • alain
          Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:06 am | Permalink |

          shhh whatever you do don’t mention what it would hopefully do to active connection statistics in election year 2013 that highlights like a yellow marker how FTTH fares when faced with working alternative infrastructure competition.

          • NBNAlex
            Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:22 am | Permalink |

            We can all be cynical and assume…

            I’m sure when the bush fires were on some people saw Tony sitting in the fire truck, saying look at this grub trying to make political mileage out of these tragedies. Truth is TA has been a volunteer fire fighter for over 10 years… way before he was opposition leader. Did he get political advantage…? Probably yes. Was that his only aim? IMO no, he was doing exactly what he volunteered to do.

            Just like we can say NBNCo are doing this because it’s an election year. If the numbers improve will the government get political advantage…? Probably yes. Was this NBNCo’s only aim? IMO no.

            If this has come from NBNCo without any arm twisting from the government, it’s just a business decision to fast track revenue and they like TA, are simply doing exactly as they are meant to do.

            As we do not know, this is simply unfounded conjecture.

    19. alain
      Posted 29/01/2013 at 9:05 am | Permalink |

      What be interesting is if ISP’s that have their own large DSLAM rollouts like iiNet, TPG etc offer a bounty to to residents to stay on ADSL2+/Naked DSL so they can maximize their return on their exchange based investments until the last few months before the 18 month shut down date.

      :)

    20. Tim
      Posted 29/01/2013 at 9:28 am | Permalink |

      The main problem i am seeing with the fibre deployment is that the service only goes live in an area once construction is completed. I may be wrong but from what i have seen and how then handle it e.g. ceremoney activation with isp’s shortly after able to offer services is causing problems.

      once say a street is completed then the fibre should be switched on.

      a progressive deployment and fibre activation plan is what is needed to take it up. Also the way deployments are done is wrong. COMMERCIAL areas should always be done first then residential (this mainly applies to rural/regional areas) as this will have the fastest take up possible.

      As for residential the only option i see for faster deployments is to use the existing copper to pull the fibre through which they do in some circumstances with the service being ready to go.

      Also the wireless tower deployment seems to also be quite slow.

      It should be mandataed that all new developments have pit, pipe installed and ideally fibre however i have still seen copper in new areas that will eventually get fiber (unless NBN is scrapped).

    21. JayZ
      Posted 29/01/2013 at 9:47 am | Permalink |

      Good lord all this hoopla for something like this…

      Wholesale providers in EVERY business provide incentives for their clients all the time. From IT to cars, retail, services etc etc. this is nothing new and they certainly don’t call it “bounty”.

      The measly $108″ is a very smart move by NBNco regardless of whatever spin you care to put on it as to WHY they’re doing it.

      It increases RSP promotion of NBN, brings revenue to NBNCo to earlier phase (this means more $$), saves the government money from paying Telstra later for migrating customers off copper and distributes the switch over from copper rather than the rush at the 18th month mark, and yes improves take up rates for a project that is still under threat by the clueless conservative liberals. It also gives an incentive to RSPs to switch customer to NBN when their own ADSL DSLAMS may for now be more profitable.

      It’s a no brainer, wise business decision that is a win all around. Had it not been for all the political BS surrounding the NBN nobody would have questioned it.

      But it seems that some negative spin must be created at ALL COST no matter what NBN announces these days…

    22. NPSF3000
      Posted 29/01/2013 at 9:58 am | Permalink |

      “although the company told The Australian that it was one of a number of “standard promotional activities” to help ensure a smooth migration to the NBN infrastructure.”

      +1

      It seems to me that the most obvious rationale is the one being ignored. Think of it logically – assume that the uptake is far higher than expect [which IIRC it is], that there is no election coming, that there is no risk of government change…

      Even with all those assumptions… it still makes sense for NBNco to offer the bounty because by assisting it’s customers [RSPs] migrate users faster NBNco will recoup costs and make a profit. This is nothing new in telecommunications [most web-hosts for example offer a very similar deal for affiliates and partners].

      • alain
        Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:12 am | Permalink |

        But FTTH technically towers above the current alternatives does it not – surely such a state of the art , nation building, bold visionary ideal can stand on its own way above the need for incentives to connect?

        • NBNAlex
          Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:28 am | Permalink |

          Apparently not… when there are people such as yourself out there alain, who even in the business, refuse to accept anything beyond that which they currently know.

          Imagine then the layman, who only see the mainstream media (who feel threatened by such technology) screaming white elephant, wastage, etc.

          • Paul Thompson
            Posted 29/01/2013 at 11:09 am | Permalink |

            Indeed, it doesn’t always matter if you have a superior product. History is littered with superior products that failed because of marketting, spin etc.

            If the NBN hadn’t become a political target of the Coalition, then things might be different. Most companies deal with competition. They don’t have to deal with the pending leader of their country setting a goal of destroying them.

            • Hubert Cumberdale
              Posted 29/01/2013 at 11:27 am | Permalink |

              http://www.zdnet.com/dear-libs-let-the-nbn-fall-on-its-own-1339306877/

              This article by David Braue on Zdnet was written two years ago.

              “And when it comes election time, they’ll point to the still-in-progress NBN, and all its shortcomings, as though it were a failure of Labor’s NBN policy. Julia Gillard, assuming she is still PM by then, will argue that the plan was always a good one but that the meddling Coalition has slowed progress by its obstinacy. And she will be right: if the Liberals just keep dragging the chain, any failure of the NBN to reach its potential will be as much their fault as Labor’s.”

              He is totally right too.

              • alain
                Posted 29/01/2013 at 12:01 pm | Permalink |

                That’s all very well theorising, but if you or anyone else can provide a direct link between the Coalition and anything they have done which has been detrimental to the NBN rollout I would be glad to hear it.

                • Hubert Cumberdale
                  Posted 29/01/2013 at 12:21 pm | Permalink |

                  Stop your whining. Your ill-informed input was not requested nor is it required in this debate.

                  • Posted 29/01/2013 at 12:35 pm | Permalink |

                    Calm down Hubert.

                    • Hubert Cumberdale
                      Posted 29/01/2013 at 12:38 pm | Permalink |

                      I perfectly calm. Not sure how you could take my post any other way.

                • NBNAlex
                  Posted 29/01/2013 at 1:00 pm | Permalink |

                  I have been enjoying your input over the last day or so alain, where you have added to the conversation instead of imo, normally trying to detract from it.

                  Please continue with positive input (even though we all know it will be in opposition to the NBN) and not slip back into pedantic, argumentative alain.

                  Because let’s face it, everyone knows the Coalition are against the current NBN and one of many shadow Ministers and the Opposition leader (not just the shadow Comms Minister) mention it almost daily… white elephant, extravagance, waste etc. They see discrediting this major project, to be helpful for election in 2013 and we all know that it is their objective (as it is the Government’s) and the Coalition will do “anything” to get there…

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2fRMy5rxuM

                  No one needs to supply any further proof to demonstrate the bleedin’ obvious, do they, really?

                  • alain
                    Posted 29/01/2013 at 3:41 pm | Permalink |

                    Yes I know the opposition are against it , what HC referred to was that the Coalition is causing delays in the rollout, I simply asked how this can be.

                    The NBN Co have not blamed the Coalition for delays neither has Conroy so how is the Coalition causing delays exactly?

            • NPSF3000
              Posted 29/01/2013 at 11:54 am | Permalink |

              “If the NBN hadn’t become a political target of the Coalition, then things might be different.”

              Actually, my point is the exact opposite of this. Even if the Coalition had given the NBN full support… it would still have made sense to offer a bounty to help move the transition ahead. The deal stands on its own merits without involving politics – so why does one assume politics are involved?

              • tinman_au
                Posted 06/02/2013 at 7:15 pm | Permalink |

                Exactly, even Telstra offers deals on broadband, and they pretty well own the market currently…

        • NPSF3000
          Posted 29/01/2013 at 11:52 am | Permalink |

          “But FTTH technically towers above the current alternatives does it not – surely such a state of the art , nation building, bold visionary ideal can stand on its own way above the need for incentives to connect?”

          Sure, but why should NBNco ignore a perfectly good opportunity to increase revenues and help their customers?

        • Steven
          Posted 30/01/2013 at 2:37 am | Permalink |

          “But FTTH technically towers above the current alternatives does it not – surely such a state of the art , nation building, bold visionary ideal can stand on its own way above the need for incentives to connect?”

          You seem to underestimate the power of customer inertia…

    23. Tubsta
      Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:42 am | Permalink |

      Dear Mr NBN,

      Don’t worry about paying me $108 to join up. You connect me up and i’ll pay you, LOTS of money, not just in monthly fees but actual connection just to get a reliable fast, future proof internet. I don’t want any FTTN that the LNP are pushing.

      Get to it….

    24. kentlfc
      Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:58 am | Permalink |

      Apparently the NBN went down in Queensland quicker than a drunk Lindsey Lohan on the weekend! Fills you with confidence doesn’t it! Not to mention having to pay to get customers! What a joke!

      • NBNAlex
        Posted 29/01/2013 at 11:11 am | Permalink |

        Wow fancy that…

        Some of the worst floods ever and the NBN went down (I didn’t hear that, just taking your word!!!)… I suppose the copper was perfect and wireless towers all good as gold? Regardless, that’s pretty heartless, considering the hardship many of our fellow Aussies are currently experiencing… trying to make political gain out of such a tragedy.

        And fancy too, a business offering incentives, apparently in the form of credit not cash – so it will in fact make NBNCo $’s not cost them (but just just ignore that) by fast tracking revenue. Unheard of anywhere :/

        Once again the old double standard rears it’s ugly head and did you read the article and comment or just the headline?

      • SMEMatt
        Posted 29/01/2013 at 11:50 am | Permalink |

        I don’t see any evidence of this either I’ve looked through a few network status advisories of a couple RSP offering NBN services and none of them mention NBN services being affected. They do mention lots of major faults with DSL services.

        This doesn’t surprise as most of the available fiber in QLD is pockets of existing estate fiber, so not much coverage to see if it stands up to flood. There is a large area of wireless coverage inland but that isn’t in a flood affected area. Now the only major fiber deployment in the area was done by Telstra after the last flood if that suffered major issues just remember who is likely to own and build a subsidized network if NBN co is broken up.

      • NPSF3000
        Posted 29/01/2013 at 11:58 am | Permalink |

        Replace NBN with Telstra and you’d be correct – everywhere from mid-Queensland up had severe outages – including 000 being down.

        Oddly enough, the NBN backhaul design would have likely rendered it impervious to the outages.

    25. Mike
      Posted 29/01/2013 at 11:31 am | Permalink |

      When I read some of the pitiful comments from the naysayers on this forum, I despair of the intelligence of many of my fellow Australians. What is it about an innovative, world beating infrastructure project that absolutely brings out the most pathetic, imbecilic comments that you might otherwise find on a school toilet wall? Have these people become so inured to the shrill siren call of the Murdoch press and the LNP clowns that they can no longer think for themselves? My God, the tall poppy syndrome is truly alive and well in Australia, isn’t it?

      • NBNAlex
        Posted 29/01/2013 at 11:42 am | Permalink |

        Best comment ever Mike… period!

      • NBNAccuracy
        Posted 01/02/2013 at 9:23 pm | Permalink |

        I must admit the posts supporting the Coalition have been very surprising. I always assumed that given their agenda of looking after the wealthy and Labor’s of looking after the little guy… Why do some of the vocal Coalition supporters seems like uneducated boguns?

        • tinman_au
          Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:00 pm | Permalink |

          You don’t need any particular level of education to run a company, or buy shares.

    26. Francis Young
      Posted 29/01/2013 at 11:49 am | Permalink |

      $108 is nothing. NBNCo recovers the $108 in the four months minimum period anyway. In the meantime, the customer gets a better service, economies of scale start to kick in for retail service providers, and the capacity already provisioned by NBNCo starts to get used.

      Having said that, the 44% actual takeup rate after twelve months in Kiama is impressive, as is the speed profile, with most (84%) opting for the faster speeds, not entry level 12/1 Mbps.

      This spotter’s fee is costing NBNCo nothing, and helping debunk the coalition stupidity by allowing people to have first hand experience of the transformation which uncapped bandwidth and reliability enables.

      • alain
        Posted 29/01/2013 at 3:47 pm | Permalink |

        The trial has not even started and the pro NBN lobby have made their fair and impartial judgement and are already stating it was a success and it cost the NBN nothing.

        Amazing.

        • Harimau
          Posted 29/01/2013 at 7:10 pm | Permalink |

          You seem intelligent, alain, much moreso than the usual NBN detractors (parrots, really). Could you answer me a few questions? In summary, what is your position on the NBN as it is? How, specifically, could it be made better? Or is the very idea of an NBN absurd to you, and if so, why?

          • NBNAlex
            Posted 30/01/2013 at 3:15 pm | Permalink |

            Still waiting Harimau?

            Not surprising…I’ve been asking for longer than I care to remember… “tell us a better alternative” and received the same blank response. Strangely however, you don’t ask a question and you will receive an irrational answer to a question which was never asked :/

            I’ve come to the conclusion that our colourful friend doesn’t want to answer in case his answer conflicts with Telstra and the Opposition, whom I believe he will agree with whatever they decide upon.

          • tinman_au
            Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:04 pm | Permalink |

            I see the mistake you made there Harimau. You think Alain is trying to sway folks with his elegant, well constructed arguments (*snort*).

            He not really, he’s on a crusade and will ignore most logic/points that cause him discomfort with his chosen reality.

    27. Stephen H
      Posted 29/01/2013 at 8:47 pm | Permalink |

      The problem is that ISPs have been spending the last year or two trying to push customers onto two year plans so they don’t lose them when the NBN rolls past the door.

    28. Wayne
      Posted 29/01/2013 at 10:05 pm | Permalink |

      Bounty. Goodness, what trifle. I would just like to know if I’m ever going to be connected to the NBN. I’m 63 now and it’s not looking good…

      • Harimau
        Posted 30/01/2013 at 1:58 am | Permalink |

        Not to sound insensitive, but if it is truly so critical you could try moving to a house with NBN access. Certainly, that’s one factor I’ll be considering when next I move home.

        • SMEMatt
          Posted 30/01/2013 at 1:10 pm | Permalink |

          I have the problem of an expected move from an area that I know is getting the NBN (build has started and I’ve seen contractor doing work) to an determined area that I’m not sure is even on the short term roll out plan.

    29. Posted 30/01/2013 at 2:02 pm | Permalink |

      I know I missed out on a lot of this discussion, but ill just say this. For every customer that NBNCo. gets 4 months earlier than they would have, they pay off the $108 (even on minimum 12/1). For every customer they get now as compared to 18 months later during compulsory changeover, that’s 14 months worth of extra revenue equivalent they get, or minimum $350 PER PREMISES.

      I think that’s a damn good business decision frankly, regardless of the political tones.

      • alain
        Posted 31/01/2013 at 10:21 am | Permalink |

        How about they get the customer early anyway without any bounty because they have a state of the art bold and visionary nation building product that surely no residence could say no to, that’s an even better business decision.

        • Posted 31/01/2013 at 10:30 am | Permalink |

          @alain

          How about you stop living in this dream world of yours where everything about the NBN must be so life changingly amazing instantaneously, for it to be a success. Woolworths uses shopper dockets. QANTAS uses Frequent Flyers. NBNCo. uses RSP incentives. It is a valid, responsible, reasonable business decision based around market incentives.

          You need to get off your high horse for a while and look and get some perspective. If NBNCo. provides 100% of Australians with broadband for the next 40 years, it has done its’ job. It WILL also pay for itself several times over in that time. That is without question, unless you suggest internet usage will drop consistently from now one.

    30. kentlfc
      Posted 31/01/2013 at 10:57 am | Permalink |

      @7tech

      How about you stop living in this dream world of yours where everything about the NBN must be so life changingly amazing instantaneously

      But that’s the arguement you guys use to justify it!

      4K movies streaming on NBN…..cool! Geez bad luck for all those suckers that bought Blu rays! It’s outdated already? Wait, 8K is nearly here too! Lucky I still only have a DVD player! Still waiting on how their going to transport groceries and such, “Star Trek style” via the NBN. THAT would be life changing!

      P.S. I was right too, the NBN WAS cut in the Qld floods not just the Telstra line. And in a lot of cases, Telstra customers could still ring local numbers.

      P.P.S. @NBN Alex. I lived through Cyclones Larry and Yassi so don’t try to come the bleeding heart with me! And I must have missed my invitation to a political party too? I don’t remember joining one, you ALP ideologue!

      • Posted 31/01/2013 at 11:35 am | Permalink |

        @kentlfc

        I don’t know who you’re talking about, but I’ve never stated the NBN will transform our society overnight. Its going to take years, but unlike with FTTN, it WILL happen. It even took 6-7 years for smartphones to become mainstream. And you missed my entire point- the NBN cannot be measured for its success in 3 or 4 years. It is not a short term policy or idea.

        Of course customers can ring each other on the local exchange- Telstra’s equipment was designed to be able to route via only the exchange required. Pity if you’re not on the same exchange. And lucky the exchange itself wasn’t flooded. It was pure luck the Telstra exchange stayed online, not better planning on their part. PSTN routing is analogue until after the exchange that’s why it can be routed locally. Digital routing requires the data go back to a central location.

        Are you now going to suggest mobiles are bad because they have to jump to central office before they can route your call to the same cell?

      • tinman_au
        Posted 01/02/2013 at 5:56 pm | Permalink |

        “P.S. I was right too, the NBN WAS cut in the Qld floods not just the Telstra line. And in a lot of cases, Telstra customers could still ring local numbers. ”

        Shame they couldn’t call 000 or use an ATM/EFTPOS…

        • kentlfc
          Posted 02/02/2013 at 10:07 am | Permalink |

          Not hard to keep a little money in your wallet is it for those, “just in case situations”? Sheesh!

          As for 000, I know my local Police, Firey and Ambo numbers? Mad if you don’t know them! IMO

          • tinman_au
            Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:11 pm | Permalink |

            And what number would you call if your 1000 Km from home as I was recently? And your Telstra service wasn’t, you know, actually working?

            Luckily there were a few ATM’s around that don’t use Telstra…I’m actually pretty surprised at how many companies EFTPOS/ATM’s use Telstra, out of all the ones in Cairns (hundreds?) we only heard of 5 that were still working.

    31. Liam
      Posted 02/02/2013 at 4:14 am | Permalink |

      Not fussed about the incentive, I just want a connection.

      Speedier rollout negates the incentive in terms of getting ppl on board I think, tho the incentive will make the profit numbers look better in terms of utilisation.




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