Most Australians now support MTM NBN, claims Morrow


news The chief executive of the NBN company last week said that the debate over different technologies for the National Broadband Network was effectively over, with ‘most’ Australians having now accepted the rationale for the Coalition’s technically inferior Multi-Technology Mix model for the network.

The original version of the NBN as envisioned by the previous Labor Government called for most Australian premises to be covered by a full Fibre to the Premises rollout, with the remainder to be covered by satellite and fixed wireless technology.

The Coalition’s controversial Multi-Technology Mix instituted by Malcolm Turnbull as Communications Minister has seen the company switch to a model re-using and upgrading the legacy copper and HFC cable networks owned by Telstra and Optus.

Last week the NBN company released its latest set of financial results. The results show that the company continues to make strong strides in deploying its network — both the original FTTP network envisioned by Labor as well as the Multi-Technology Mix approach favoured by the Coalition.

Speaking to the Financial Review following the results, NBN company chief executive Bill Morrow reportedly said that he now believed ‘most Australians’ now supported the rationale for the MTM model. Delimiter recommends readers click through to read the full article.

The AFR reported Morrow as saying: “I think we are past that … we have moved on from ‘oh my God, let’s not introduce new technologies, let’s stay with FTTP for most of Australia’. ”

Morrow’s comments reflect sentiment that he expressed in his speech pertaining to the NBN company’s financial results.

As part of the NBN company’s financial results, the company claimed that customers using its Fibre to the Node service (a component of the MTM model) were just as satisfied with their broadband service as those using Fibre to the Premises services, on the basis of the industry standard Net Promoter Score rating.

“With a bit of experience now behind us, we can see how this technology has minimal civil works, less homeowner complaints, and a lower cost structure than alternative approaches,” said Morrow last week regarding FTTN. “The speed to which we can roll out this technology gives us even further confidence in our roll out plan and we are moving full steam ahead.”

“An important note here on FTTN is that our end-users score the use of this product the same as those with FTTP, reinforcing the belief that FTTN is an acceptable technology that can meet consumer’s fast broadband needs.”

Communications MInister Mitch Fifield also took the opportunity last week to claim that the NBN company’s financial results showed that the MTM model was succeeding.

“The results are a clear indication that the lower cost, more efficient FTTN network and multi-technology mix is the right choice to deliver high speed broadband to homes and business across Australia,” the Liberal Senator said in a statement.

The claims by Morrow go against the grain in terms of previous public surveys with respect to the Coalition’s version of the NBN.

When the Coalition first unveiled its rival NBN policy, online polling showed that 78 percent of readers continued to support Labor’s original, near universal fibre model instead, and in February 2014, Shadow Communications Minister Jason Clare tabled in Federal Parliament a petition with some 272,000 signatures calling for the Coalition to continue on with Labor’s version of the project.

That same month, Tasmanian Liberal Leader Will Hodgman made the extraordinary admission that the Federal Coalition’s unpopular broadband policy was so unpopular that it could cost the party the upcoming Tasmanian State Election (in the end, the Liberals won the election).

If the majority of Australians do now support the rationale for the Coalition’s version of the NBN, this would represent a significant reversal of the policy’s levels of public support.

Labor issued a statement last week claimed that Fifield had “guzzled” the “kool-aid” generated by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, the architect of the MTM NBN policy.

“Trying to distract attention from the fact the NBN will cost almost double what Malcolm Turnbull promised and will take twice as long to build as Malcolm Turnbull promised, today NBN Co and Mitch Fifield tried to pretend that copper and fibre are the same thing and that one is as good as the other,” said Shadow Communications Minister Jason Clare.

I don’t personally believe Morrow’s comments are correct. Pretty much everyone I speak to, across society, maintains the belief that the Government has royally screwed up the NBN by pursuing the Multi-Technology Model. People are actively angry about the issue, and broadly are confused by the MTM model in general. Support levels for the policy continue to remain low, I would say, with Labor’s rival FTTP policy continuing to enjoy high levels of support.

Morrow has to know that he is going to incite rage by making this sort of claim in public.

Image credit: NBN company


    • This guy is like that uncle that always looked at you sideways… never realising that it was his kids that were a total joke… wait: he did,… just couldn’t show it!
      (People died for this!!)
      Every single Liberal voter is ashamed of copper internet as they know it is the worlds favourite joke and will be for the entire 21st century- well done,… golf claps to the whole Australian voting electorate: OI OI OI

    • Only 22% of the population thinks the Government is too tough on refugees. Let me repeat that. Only 22% of Australians think the rapey violent death camps for refugees are too much. Why then it such a stretch then to say most people think Copper Magic is the best approach? It is extremely naive to think the little bubble we operate in, be it, Whirlpool, or Delimiter, are in anyway indicative of the feelings of the general population.

    • As much as the NBN fanbois might want to believe that the majority in Australia is willing to pay for 100Mbps, the reality is that only 16% (down 3% in 12 months) are prepared to pay for 100Mbps. 79% of those who have connected to the NBN have voted with their wallets and selected 25Mbps or slower speeds. These are speeds are also available on FTTB, FTTP and HFC.

      It is very unlikely that the 79% connecting at 25Mbps or slower will change their vote to support Labor based on NBN policy when it delivers zero benefit to them.

      • majority in Australia is willing to pay for 100Mbps,

        BS Mathew, BS!

        the 100/40 mbps users will initially be a minority and we have NEVER EVER claimed otherwise! What we have said it there are enough users that WILL pay for it and those high end users will actually help NBN co pay of the network build faster because they pay for more data too.

        Without those high end users MtM will make lower revenues and fail to meet ROI targets (to the point MtM ROI targets have been dramatically lowered!)!

      • Mathew, nonsense as usual.

        This NBN reply in July 2015 Hansard is very revealing, remembering that the revenue stream to reimburse construction is based on ARPU, and ARPU at the top tier is much higher:

        Looking at 2020, NBN under Malcolm Turnbull is banking on 20% of FTTN users to pay 100/40 but a whopping 33% on FTTP. That means 13% paying an extra $20 per month.

        Likewise 12/1 entry-level speeds are forecast by NBN to be 31% of all NBN customers on FTTN, but only 25% of FTTP customers.

        The rationale for a taxpayer-built NBN was always that it would repay its construction cost and remain at the service of customers and a cash cow for Treasury going forward. This is still what will happen if it is built with FTTP.

        Only FTTP offers the highest revenue per user combined with the lowest annual operating and maintenance costs. The rest is just politics, and is certainly unsound economics, unless of course you happen to be a wealthy PM looking for cushy directorships with telcos after politics.

      • cause they have no idea yet what it would be used for . same people would have said that 256kbps broadband would be enough for the foreseeable future when it was first available but please imagine that when that happened 256kbps was actually the technical limit of what was likely to be available on their type of connection medium for the next decade and perhaps forever (i.e. until fibre or until fibre brought even closer to the home) – same people will curse when they can’t HD conference their grandkids, use the functions on their new TV properly, use cloud apps and services properly

  1. I don’t know about whether Morrow’s guzzled the KoolAid … but he’s certainly picked up Malcolm’s hubris, at least publicly.

    I wonder if he really believes this privately?

    • Indeed the delusion is strong in this one. We’ve seen it all before though, it’s the same disingenuous tactic religious zealots use, so coming from GimpCo it is no surprise. Expect the copper fanboy knuckle-draggers to lap this up too. Their use of logical fallacies throughout this debate is notorious so having someone from GimpCo validate their feel-pinions gives them some comfort as they slowly realise what a mess the MTN patchwork truly is.

    • They’re playing politics, trying to cover off the argument before the next election.

  2. When you get a choice of something better, or nothing better, most people would accept something better, even if it’s not their prefered version of better.

    • This is exactly what I was going to write, though not as eloquently. If I had MTM and was asked if I was happy with it, of course I would say yes because it would be much better than what I currently have. If I was asked would I be happier with FTTP, however…

    • Accept that we had a choice and spoke for FTTP and then the LNP “took over” and didn’t ask any of the Australian Public if we were “OK” with scrapping that plan and going with another mid-stride.

      Hardly a “i’ll take something over nothing” scenario and more like a “you’ll take what we give you because we want all your tax money going to our buddies instead” scenario me thinks.

      • They didn’t need to ask as the numbers were clear as day. Labor predicted that close to 50% on fibre would opt for 12Mbps and another 15% opt for 25Mbps. The real world take-up figures showed that Labor were optimistic as 79% were selecting 25Mbps or slower.

        When there isn’t a noticeable difference iin end-user experience at 25Mbps between FTTN, FTTB, HFC & FTTP the government has little to worry about. If Labor had chosen to offer 1Gbps to everyone, the it would have been a different story.

        • I haven’t been on this site for quite a while but I am amazed to see that Matthew is still obsessed with the same argument that he was using a couple of years ago. How sad.

          • It’s not exactly the same argument observer. Goalposts had to be moved because the facts were a bit inconvenient. Referred to as a “clown” during Senate Estimates (not hard to see why), those commenting on the MTM patchwork on various websites such as Delimiter etc are not the only ones that know now. Forever immortalised in Hansard for all to see.

  3. “Morrow has to know that he is going to incite rage by making this sort of claim in public.”
    Morrow knows for him it’s either do or die at the next election, so I don’t really think he gives two sh!ts either way, he walks off with $3m whatever way it goes.

      • Not really: he loses his soul either way and his family will never recover ye olde smirk of old… meaning every single liberal voter that ever lived can’t sleep very well these days!!

        • He lost his soul over long before he demolished the NBN…
          *cough gas pipe line cough*

    • are we sure about Morrows fate if the government changed ? remember the big difference with diplomatic appointments when federal gov switches, coalition seem to sack and replace half the former labor people in established posts to install old Libs , when Rudd got in for example a bundle of howards ministers were actually appointed to very prestigious positions.
      If Morrow is able to be better than competent with the right instructions from the government of the day I could well see him sticking around – he just needs an excuse like some new study he can cite as reason for a change of stance on FTTP in the shorter term

  4. Hello Bill did you ask me if I support your nonsense MTM?.

    Didn’t thinks so.

    No I don’t support your MTM.

    Yours truly.

    An Australian that thinks the MTM is a heap of crap.

    • he did say “i believe”. a nice little out for him there but never mind.

      Bill, I believe you are a liar and full of horseshit. see, anyone can play this game!

      just to make it expressly clear, i do not support MTM; i support the original blend of services. why would i support building twice, and first time building a rubbish product?

  5. $56b for a five year copper network, that will immediately need upgrading. How much for upgrade costs? Wasted time and money. Particularly since ftth is the main revenue stream for the mtm .
    This is all sheer lunacy. How about we have a public independent survey ? And how about afr let us have right of reply via comments . And why isn’t this article on afr Facebook page?
    Give you one guess..

  6. I behaved a bit inappropriately last week by having quite a heated rant at Barnaby Joyce about how disappointed I was in the current NBN and why we needed the proper plan back. He was probably really regretting introducing himself to me and asking what I did for a living. Given that we run an online business which depends on good internet, I could not resist telling him what for. Water off a ducks back though – kept repeating the line that Labors NBN would cost $100B while theirs was only $47B and therefore a better deal. I am sure he and all the rest of the suck-ups will grab on to Morrow’s comments to back them up but if Joyce has any honesty at all (doubtful), he would have to admit that there is at least one voter in his electorate who is enraged at the lost opportunity.

    • “kept repeating the line that Labors NBN would cost $100B while theirs was only $47B”
      Interesting numbers that he chose there, given we all know know that $47b is the -extremely- conservative latest estimation (since no one at nbn knows what’s actually going on) – not only that, but that was THE last accurate figure for FTTP NBN before Coalition took over.

      BUT WAIT THERE’S MORE! Given that Turnbull, Morrow, the paid-for SR and other reviews etc etc etc all state that FTTP is the end goal and needed in 5-10 years after competition of MTM, that actually brings the FULL cost of MTM to ~$100b.

      Is it really so simple that perhaps they just read their own figures wrong? ;)

      • “BUT WAIT THERE’S MORE! Given that Turnbull, Morrow, the paid-for SR and other reviews etc etc etc all state that FTTP is the end goal and needed in 5-10 years after competition of MTM, that actually brings the FULL cost of MTM to ~$100b.”

        Unless you ask our resident Ostrich with his head in the sane “Richard” and he’ll tell you that fibre isn’t the end goal, magical pixie dust is.

        • i sprinkled some of this magical pixie dust on some ant nests this afternoon. I wonder if i go to Canberra and sprinkle it around that “Museum”, will it get rid of those insects that uproot and settle where they are not wanted.

    • Why bother talking to a member of the Nationals about anything they are a joke who don’t actually stand for anything these days. They are the Liberal party in all but name at this point. People may make fun of the green but at least under the Labor minority government they actually mattered. At this point they seem to not be willing to do anything to piss off their Liberal masters.

    • Here’s a point for those who spout the ‘$100bn’ line: the cost of the original FTTP was some $44.3bn. Malcolm, Abbott etc liked to throw unsubstantiated figures around like $100bn, but then the strategic review came out with some rather wild figures for the cost of FTTP, based on calculations that were since demonstrated to be fundamentally flawed. So, which of those figures and their financial basis was thoroughly reviewed by independent financial professionals? Which of those was gone through with a fine tooth comb and found to be comprehensively accurate?

      Well, the original NBN Co had their figures constantly audited (I think it was by PWC wasn’t it?). The original NBN Co, all its financials, and the decisions made by the original executive management team were put under a microscope in the most comprehensive audit ordered by a government in Australian history, and they found *not one thing* wrong with their decision process, their management, or their financials. Guess what that means? The original figure of $44.3bn was soundly based and accurate.

      Show me the professional independent audits of any other figure that has been bandied about as a supposed cost of FTTP. You can’t, because there are none. A figure is not accurate because you say so. The only way we can know if your calculations are accurate is if you show us the evidence. The LNP and the new NBN company have been opaque about their facts, calculations and evidence. They have no evidence, therefore no proof, no facts, and no argument.

      The original figure of $44.3bn still stands, because it’s the only one that was verifiable. Everything else is just here-say.

      • “The original figure of $44.3bn still stands, because it’s the only one that was verifiable. Everything else is just here-say.”

        + fucking lots… absolutely right!

        Which is why I can’t understand why people here get involved in arguing over the loaded, yes men, SR or CP16 figures, with loaded yes men imbeciles here at Delimiter.

        WGAF what (he was so good at what he did he went broke) Ergas or Morrow-a-fail says…


    • they must of forgot the part where they still need to run fibre to their cabinets which requires some digging oooo and the copper length from the node……

  7. It’s not that more people support MTM it’s that there is no going back without costing more time. 2 years of nothing from the MTM shows it.

    But then where is this faster cheaper and more affordable.

  8. 1km from Sydney CBD on the FTC network footprint and not even on the dodgy “Rollout Map” yet!

    Is there still the option to Opt Out? Where do I fricking sign?

    New Zealand is looking better each and every day

  9. “[MTM] does it faster, it does it cheaper. Yeah, there is a bit more pain in the neck maintenance with it, and if we ultimately need to get fibre closer to everybody’s house we will need to go back and retrofit again … but the logic here is that you don’t spend what you don’t need to. Consumers right now just aren’t willing to pay for anything more than 25 Mbps, so why would we build it with fibre today?” – Bill Morrow

    That is extremely short sighted. It’s not sufficient to quote the connection speeds people are happy with today, when the network will have to be used for decades, or upgraded at some point – they are just kicking the can down the road. Surely it is more efficient from a capital works perspective to just do it in one go, at least get it to the pit outside each premise than install nodes which will have to be ripped out and upgraded to full fibre at some point in the future.

    • its surprising he acknowledges the “bit more pain in the neck maintenance’ without drawing the obvious corollary – that maintenance costs money. not only that but there is no “if” fibre needs to be brought closer – its “when” or even more pertinently “how soon”.

      its deliberate myopia from this mob.

  10. “Morrow has to know that he is going to incite rage by making this sort of claim in public.”

    So true, the fanboys and their media cheerleaders will squeal. Rather than inane +1s or platitudes from those that matter not, Morrow will have to be satisfied with being right. Kinda easy:-)

    “Pretty much everyone I speak to, across society, maintains the belief that the Government has royally screwed up the NBN by pursuing the Multi-Technology Model.”

    Might like to get into the private sector for a while, where cost and meeting targets is more than a “like”. NBN policy a disaster, but likely everyone you speak to still doesn’t accept the original plans failed (despite all evidence).

    • Avoiding replying to comments on other articles when you don’t like the responses making sense Richard?

      • @r0 I had a look, what bile needed addressing? Mike calling for my banning for posting too much (strangely a fraction of others), seems I can’t win!

        Share some of your wisdom here…

        • You made the claim that there is no case other than 4k video that warrants households having 100Mbit pipes to their house, multiple people replied stating “multiple user/device households” but since that ruins your argument that no household could ever need more than 15Mbit in 2025 you ignore it.


          • @r0 right no applications. Listing multiple members of a household watching YouTube doesn’t change anything.

            When have I ever claimed no household could ever need more than 15mbps? Another Rizz, make up BS and run with it. Fanboys!

          • When you made a big deal about 4k video right now not being a warranted use for more than 15Mbit.

            Even though I said previously I edit video from work while at home, which I couldn’t do without a high speed connection both up and down, but thats apparently not enough of an application for you, so, having multiple people pulling down 10-20Mbit a second during peak hours and being told that 15Mbit will be enough for everyone in 2025 (your sacred CBA stated this) is ludicrous.

            You call me a fanboy? Yet I sit here finding a use for over 100Mbit up and down on a daily basis and I am a single user not a family, seriously, I’m done with you, you’re a freaking moron.

          • You call me a fanboy? Yet I sit here finding a use for over 100Mbit up and down on a daily basis and I am a single user

            You are not the only one R0ninX3ph. Funny thing we were debating these same issues on Zdnet years ago. RR believes there are no uses for 100mbit speeds and that 12mbps is “high speed” etc but I wonder how many Australian businesses and homes would be willing to limit their LAN speeds to 12mbps until 2020 to prove that point. 100/100mbps (which isn’t really that fast, but it’s a big scary number for the copper fanboy knuckle-draggers) and higher would have more benefits over longer distances. Your video editing a prime example and there are many more. Can’t expect those who are enamored with copper to accept any of them. None of them are legitimate and will never be legitimate to them because they only use email and browse the Liberal party website to fuel their ill-informed opinions on communications infrastructure.

          • @brisbane line boy steps in with more misinformation.

            I’ve never said no user requires greater speed. I’ve asked for any application that justifies rolling it out to the entire population. There isn’t any. R0 video editing can pay for fibre or locate in a fibre area as many businesses have done for years.

            @R0 not my “sacred” CBA, I’m happy one was produced for some actual numbers. As CBAs go it is well prepared. Don’t worry the innumerate dismiss it, and everything else.

          • @richard “well prepared”, well sure it looks nice nice but the content is sorely lacking, specifically you’d think that the nbn was for consumers only. Apparently business doesn’t use the Intenet as it’s only an “entertainment network”.


            Perhaps if more of your ignorant mates in the liberal party read this study they might have a better appreciation for why FTTP was the only logical choice to support our economy for the next 50+ years!


          • Derek you got to love the CBA which egras used his own review back in 2011 stating plans would cost upto $300.

          • Richard, according to you multi-user households don’t count. Single users using 100Mbit up and down don’t count.

            Even if there was a SINGLE application that required it, I’m sure you’re going to have a flippity-flop over that and claim that doesn’t count.

            You say nobody needs 100Mbit so, surely they also don’t need FTTN that might, possibly, provide that speed to a handful of users, so why are we building an NBN at all? Oh right, you think private companies like Telstra were going to do it…. Hah. Joke #1.

            Nothing anyone says is going to cause you to have a lightbulb moment and change your tune, you call us fanboys? Hah. Joke #2.

            You should go into comedy, at least then you’re getting paid to be laughed at.

          • @R0 provide that single application then. Should be easy, justifying spending $50b. Much like the gullible Brisy line boy you have nothing but bile.

            Notice Brisy line boy, like his other claims, can’t substantiate his fabricated quote. What a tool.

          • Keep moving the goal posts Richard, you’re good at it.

            Single user using 100Mbit doesn’t count.

            Multi-user household doesn’t count.

            Now asking to provide a single application that will saturate a 100Mbit link.

            Nah, I think I’ll pass on even bothering to research anything.

            You claim households don’t need 100Mbit, yet I have already told you of two cases where they can and do use 100Mbit, now you’re asking me to provide a single application that will saturate a 100Mbit connection?

            Anything I provide, will simply be ignored like you ignore other cases.

            A household with 5 devices connected to the internet all at the same time, can and will saturate 15Mbit, can and will saturate 25Mbit, can and will saturate 100Mbit right now, in 2015. Yet nbn are working on assumptions that we will only need 15Mbit in 2025? Yeah, cool story bro.

          • Richard:

            Why does my use of a 100Mbit connection not count?

            Why do multi-user households not count?

            Why must I find a single application that uses 100Mbit? Do you not have a household that has multiple devices that can perform multiple tasks at the same time? Do you have an old Pentium single thread machine that can only run one single program at a time?

            I, personally, have a video game console connected to the internet, I have a computer, a TV, two tablets, my phone and a NAS. At any given time as a single person in the house, I have at least 3 of those devices actively accessing the internet at any given time.

            If I were living with my fiance, that would increase to always having 3 devices ALWAYS connected when we are home and at least the possibility of 5 running concurrently.

            Streaming TV at 4k, at least 15Mbit up to 25Mbit with decent quality on the computer with my fiance in the other room watching something else on the TV also streaming at 4k, while she uses her tablet on facebook/general web surfing (lets lowball this and say 1Mbit) with my NAS downloading backups of video from work at 50Mbit.

            Even lowballing it all, we’re looking at 80Mbit of usage at a given time. Yet for 100Mbit to be needed, you think I need to find a SINGLE application that uses 100Mbit? If I do that, suddenly my needs go from 80Mbit with 4 devices, to 180Mbit with those previous 4 devices and this now single 100Mbit sucking application.

            Of course, you don’t like the idea of people having multiple devices, because it completely destroys your ability to claim that 12mbit… oh wait… 15mbit… nope 25mbit… Oh right, 15mbit by 2025 is enough for everyone.

          • I see you mention me once again Dick… and I’m not even involved here yet again (this is the 3rd or 4th time you have done this now)…

            Seriously, you claim to be an intelligent professional?

            Look if you are so damaged that you need to mention me 24/7… I will simply apologise (for my truthful but humiliating expose’s) and hope you get better.

          • @ Dick

            You continue to refer to HC as Brisbane line boy? What a human being you are.

            But seriously, WTF, are you 8, maybe 10 years old?

            How about I call you 60m passed boy?

            For someone who claims to be an eminently educated professional, you demonstrate 49.5% bogan, 49.5% boorish oaf and 1% professional…

            Give or take 1%

          • You continue to refer to HC as Brisbane line boy?

            I’ll explain this one Rizz.

            Abel said something about something to do with Australian history back on Zdnet years ago, I posted a comment about it (irrelevant and forgettable) and Richard took exception to what Abel said and also seemingly found it offensive, but being the coward he is rather than addressing Abel he decides to take it up with me years later regarding my comment instead since it was keeping him awake at night (I certainly had forgotten it). Had nothing else he could fault me on, decides to nitpick a subject I don’t give much of a crap about and clearly interested Abel and himself more. He can say it as much as he likes, he and Abel are the only ones that would get the reference since it is not relevant to this subject and the desperation is quite amusing to watch.

            Anyway, more to this subject, did we ever get that page number Rizz? :-)

    • “but likely everyone you speak to still doesn’t accept the original plans failed (despite all evidence)”
      What is currently keeping nbn’s head above water?
      The.. original… plan…
      Now fill that hole back in the with sand around your head, you’re starting to hear things you shouldn’t.

      • @s not above water, massively below. Let’s review:
        Premises passed (FY13, FY14, FY15)
        Forecast CP12-15p61 661k, 1681k, 3664k.
        Actual AR14-15p22 227k (-66%), 553k (-68%), 1153k (-66%).

        Premises activated (FY13, FY14, FY15)
        Forecast CP12-15p61 92k, 551k, 1615k.
        Actual AR14-15p22 70k (-24%), 211k (-62%), 486k (-70%).

        Revenue (FY13, FY14, FY15)
        Forecast CP12-15p61 $18m, $120m, $529m
        Actual AR14-15p27 $17m (-6%), $61m (-49%), $164m (-69%).

        Ouch! Maybe CP16 will be the first to survive one year. Sterling management!

        • Richard, by original plan everyone means the FTTP portions, both greenfields and brownfields, but you can actually understand what people mean and you just want to twist their words to fit your loopy as hell narrative.

          • @r0 what numbers do you think are represented? Document and page numbers supplied. This is decending into a farce, previously underwhelming.

          • The… majority… of… users… are… FTTP.

            Without even considering that the coalition wouldn’t even have an NBN policy if it weren’t for Labor in the first place, they have shrunk the FTTP portion (which is now essentially a remnant of the PREVIOUS plan) it is still performing better than they expected regarding revenue per user, and it is still the majority of connections in the current roll out.

            Regardless of whatever the targets were, that does NOT change the fact that the brownfields FTTP connections available now are NOT because of the MTM and are ONLY due to the previous labor plan, providing MORE revenue than was originally forecast.

          • @R0 yes ARPU is tracking marginally above budget, however costs (CPP and opex) explosion far greater. This was shown a week or so ago (with numbers), an insult to goldfish to compare retention.

            The revenue numbers show NBNCo is below old CP forecasts. NBNCo will lose more than $2b this year! It’s in its 6ths year, rolling out cables! Compare openreach!

          • Richard and MTM in its third year and according to your standards it should be at 8M premises where is this faster rollout you speak of lol.

          • Richard, costs have exploded because of liberal interference! Nearly a billion dollars wasted on ICT systems to manage the copper networks, 2 billion will be wasted on pit and duct refurbishment over 10 years that Telstra had to pay for under the old deal, power costs will have more than tripled due to powered OSP, maintenance costs will be around a billion dollars a year for the copper networks.

            So yeah, lots of extra costs that nbn never had before.

          • @do Quigley confirmed the fibre CPP blowout in SR13. A massive coup as he refused to talk about actuals as NBNCo chief. We now know, CPP over $3700 not the $2200-2400 required to be on budget. Also in his PDF confirms rollout was behind schedule and forecast completion date would be missed by years.

            Then too dumb to understand any of these numbers (kpis for infrastructure projects such as this), join the squealing fanboys. ASIC is as well.

          • Richard, the CPP for FTTP was always going to start high and come down as process improvements and updated architectures were implemented.

            Verizon started out with similar high levels of CPP but by the end of their roll-out the cost to pass a premises had dropped from over $3k to just $600 USD (not including connections).

            The CPP in project fox showed this but you will of course claim it was an edge case scenario and not representative …..

            The fact is FTTP is continuing to get cheaper and cheaper with NG-PON2 bring the costs down even further due to increasing the range of the active equipment from ~15km’s to 40km’s!

          • Lol Richard where does Quigley confirm the SR cost. CP16 cost is only $500 more than Quigleys and the SR is $1000 above the CP16. So really CP16 has confirmed Quigleys numbers.

            But then numbers boy would understand this.

          • CP13 $3100
            SR $4800
            CP16 $3600

            One seems like the odd on out. I must be too dumb to see it lol

          • Still waiting Richard
            “Quigley confirmed the fibre CPP blowout in SR13.”

            But he didn’t confirm the SR he confirmed the CP16 $500 difference was mostly like due to get the contractors going again lol.

    • Yet it is ftth that is providing the bulk of Nbn revenue, in fact , per household, twice that of mtm..

    • The botched half-privatisation of Telstra as both provider of natural-monopoly infrastructure and natural-competition services was the original cluster-f*ck of a disaster at a policy, political and commercial level that we’re still paying for and that the LNP can never accept responsibility for.

      NBN as a policy under the ALP/ALP-Greens doesn’t even begin to come close.

      • @jc Privatisation of Telstra raised $50+b. Conroy’s NBN policy will cost more than that. One underperforming quasi-govt entity with an even worse performer. Great work!

        • privatisation of Telstra created the monolith and the situation where the private sector had no ability or incentive to do a large scale network upgrade. “Conroy’s NBN policy will cost more than that” you will never know what it would have cost, look at Turnbulls NBN vision and where we are at with cost. you can’t predict where we would be if Rudd won.
          you think that if telstra stayed government owned it would have somehow been difficult for the gov to rollout 93% FTTP for a decent cost and then wholesale that to myriad private ISPs ?

  11. As Dave Cooper said on #nbn , we already have 650,000 willing to “pay for it”

  12. I don’t personally believe Morrow’s comments are correct. Pretty much everyone I speak to, across society, maintains the belief that the Government has royally screwed up the NBN by pursuing the Multi-Technology Model. People are actively angry about the issue, and broadly are confused by the MTM model in general. Support levels for the policy continue to remain low, I would say, with Labor’s rival FTTP policy continuing to enjoy high levels of support.

    Nailed it Renai, I speak to lots of folks about the NBN who arent in ICT and for the most part they are not impressed that the Gov bought back Telstra’s PSTN + the 2 HFC networks instead of building 93% FTTP as originally planned! Joe average knows that Fibre is vastly superior to copper for comms, even if they have no idea why.

    Morrow has to know that he is going to incite rage by making this sort of claim in public.

    He’ll be one of the 1st against the wall when the Royal Commission comes!*

    *apologies to the late great Douglas Adams.

  13. Still the current NBN and government officials around it continue to bang on about how the MTM model meets current customer needs. Seriously? We’re going to spend over $50 billion just so people can do what they currently do with the internet? There is no vision here, and consistently we see this justification, that MTM will deliver broadband that is simply “good enough for now”. That’s OK for some, but just the briefest survey of history will show how dramatically internet speeds have increased in the past 20 years. By the time the rollout is finished we will almost certainly be at the point where people quickly and easily exhaust the new service capacity. There will be no innovation, no room for growth, and the next round of upgrades will be a pipe dream as proper FTTH will be dead and buried for a long time to come. That’s the real problem here: all this money spend on MTM just pushes FTTH further and further back, even though it’s inevitable that we will all one day have it.

    • “MTM model meets current customer needs”
      (except upload current needs, but we won’t mention upload speed, a big no no in MTM talk)

    • “By the time the rollout is finished we will almost certainly be at the point where people quickly and easily exhaust the new service capacity.”

      We need to start upgrading the FTTN in 5 years, admits Morrow. That’s 2021. 2020 is when FTTN build finishes. 1 entire year to recoup another $40b for upgrade to FTTP – despite every portion of MTM (bar FTTP) bringing nbns financials into the red. It’s too late. Aus is fucked.

      • “1 entire year to recoup another $40b for upgrade to FTTP”

        I think everybody should have realised by now that this government has no intention of upgrading anything beyond 2020. They intend for a fire sale of NBNCo as soon as possible after, or even shortly before, that date. Then they will wash their hands of the whole thing.

        The buyers? Liberal related entities like Telstra.

        Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

        • Telstra has veto over the sale of the copper NBN elements so no one else would be able to buy it if they wanted to!

  14. I call bullsh**t… who actually did they survey and what constitutes “most” ? the MTM is terrible. as an IT professional, I see people on MTM and their speed is almost as bad as ADSL. complete waste of time. then others are being forced off cable (Telstra) connections and losing 60% of their speed. the whole situation is crap.

    • Knowing what bullets Bill has dodged in the past, this is like a walk in the park for him.

    • A quick review of submissions made to recent Senate hearings indicates that, in practice at least, it isn’t.

  15. “who actually did they survey and what constitutes “most” ?”

    It’s not inconceivable – for ‘most’ people, moving from ADSL to FTTN WILL be an upgrade. Also, keep in mind that FTTN has a 85% of the passed premises choose to fob FTTN off, 15% are eager to jump in – and ‘most’ of those 15% will have an improved service over what they had previously.

  16. Well we’re reasonably satisfied on our Labor initiated component of what is now called MTM.
    Our NBN 25/5 Mb/s Fixed Wireless service plan received a speed upgrade to ‘Up To’ 50/20 Mb/s this afternoon which is presently delivering approx 2/3rds of that over our network.
    Doubt we would have achieved anywhere near that or sooner over our long abandoned copper.

  17. If Morrow had come to delimiter he would only found two MTM supporters, Reality and Richard but they don’t count because they are politically motivated.
    And Morrow has it wrong, the majority accepting the reality of MTM is different from supporting it.

  18. Most Australians have NOT accepted the “rationale” for the MTM debacle, but they have realised it’s pointless trying to talk about it.
    But he is right, the debate is over… if it ever started. Pretty hard to have anything like a debate when one side sticks their fingers in their ears and rants Nya nya nya, 93billion, nya nya nya. The so called adults in charge, can’t even manage an adult discussion, let alone a debate.

  19. What an absolute crock of shit! Having NBN roll up to your door to tell you that you will get FTTN is a complete and utter NON CHOICE situation. There is just no rationale in the universe that can subsequently turn that into acceptance.

    • It absolutely is!
      Completely identical.
      Until it is 60/20.
      Then 40/12
      Then 8/0.7
      Then 96/38
      Then 0/0
      Then 40/11
      Then 0/0
      And so on…

    • No quite, you can get 100/40Mbits FTTP over tens of kilometres but FTTN speeds decline very quickly. You would have to be very close to the node to get FTTP type speeds. FTTP is far more reliable than FTTN due to water ingress in the copper, there is none in fibre. So far none of the FTTN nodes have been put under max loading (full migration) and I think most people will be very disappointed with their speeds during peak hour. That’s why the government and NBN are talking about Gfast, pushing the fibre closer to the end user.

  20. Not when it rains, when it’s hot, when it corrodes, or when it requires more maintenance or higher power charges.

    Or when you want to upgrade it to 1Gbps, 10Gbps or 40Gbps.

  21. Why is it when ‘most’ Australians are for something, iv never been asked. Hell, iv never once been asked for anything. so to claim ‘most’ are for or against anything, hes a downright liar.

    • Most Australians voted in this pile of shit. Most Australians are getting what they voted for.

      That being lies of course, since every election promise was broken in 6-12 months.

  22. Of course he says we accept MTM. If he couldn’t tell that lie with a straight face he wouldn’t have a job. How is the man even credible enough to debate what he says seriously. Can anyone honestly imagine that the truth is of the slightest interest to him or anyone perpetrating this betrayal of Australia’s future on us. We know they lie, they know we know they lie, we expect them to lie and they don’t let us down. At a national level we have accepted unethical and dishonest government and business behaviour. As a country we have permitted a culture that rewards greed and blatant dishonesty. It should come as no surprise when it effects the creation of important national infrastructure. I applaude vigorous debate that results in a well considered outcome. In the current climate the chances of that happening in the relation to the NBN are zero. Morrow, Turnbull et. al. don’t care about the reality of the NBN. They only care about the spin.

  23. Contrary to seemingly popular belief – repeating a lie over and over and over and over again doesn’t make it true. I’ll switch the the MTM on the very last day – the day I’m forced to – if that’s the only protest left to me I’ll use it, FTTP on the other hand, I was ready to switch the instant it was available.

  24. Liberal Leader Will Hodgman was right that FTTN would loose them the election. That is why Tasmania was promised FTTP.
    Of course we have seen how much a promise is worth.

    Morrow had a distinguished career until now.

    NBN – bait and switch. Promising MTM is as good as FTTP, when it is lucky if it can deliver 1/5 the service, with extra caveats. All for a minor reduction in initial cost, and a major increase in ongoing costs.

  25. What tripe! They’re delivering an outdated solution using old technology, and wasting significant amounts of taxpayer cash to do it. By the time the MTM NBN is finished, we could have done the original FTTP NBN for the same price. We’ll keep paying for it at a higher rate for years to come in order to maintain the older copper networks.

    I’ve no idea where his statistics are coming from but everyone I talk to regardless of their tech savvy knows the wool is being pulled over their eyes.

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