Move to FTTP viable but threatened by NBN monopoly, says Budde

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news It could be economically viable for Australia to eventually shift from fibre to the node (FTTN) to fibre to the home (FTTH), but the lack of commercial competition could be an impediment, telecoms expert Paul Budde has said.

Writing on buddeblog.com, the telecoms consultant said that European telcos which rolled out FTTN solutions around 10 years ago now believe that “a profitable business model for a full FTTH network is within reach”.

Uptake of higher-speed packages is “steadily increasing”, and those firms still operating ADSL and HFC networks will move straight to FTTH – “FTTN is no longer on the agenda”. he said.

The move will not happen overnight: while FTTN and HFC are still performing well commercially, European telcos anticipate upgrading possibly in 3-5 years’ time. However, the shift will “most certainly” happen within 10 years.

Such a schedule fits in with those companies’ investment models. Budde said: “Most of the FTTN models were based on a 15-20 year investment plan and a return on their FTTN investments can be reached within this timeframe,” he said.

Australia is some years behind the European and American FTTN cycles, and it is “unlikely” that the country will be able to catch up in the next 10 years, Budde said, because even the initial FTTN networks are not yet in place.

Hence, it is likely that many other nations’ full-fibre networks will be well underway by the time Australia has completed its FTTN rollout.

However, Budde said that if Australia is determined to roll out FTTN, “we need to have a plan in place that will bring us to the next phase of full fibre deployment”.

Based on the overseas situation, it is now clear that it is economically viable to move from FTTN to FTTH, he said, warning:

“An issue here could be that the Australian government has a monopoly on the NBN and so market pressures to upgrade to FTTH might not exist, or might be hampered in our country.”

The Labor Opposition recently announced a new policy on the NBN that would see it support FTTP, yet still keep the legacy HFC networks currently being upgraded to provide fast broadband for the NBN in some areas.

Labor said it would also commission the development of a plan that outlines how and when the parts of Australia still receiving services via FTTN should be transitioned to fibre-to-the-premises.

This plan would be commissioned in the first term of a Shorten Labor Government, the party said. However, with the Coalition claiming victory in the election this week, it now looks unlikely to go ahead.

Image credit: Paul Budde

220 COMMENTS

  1. Well we have already seen our non existing market pressure forcing Telstra upgrade from ADSL 1.

  2. Best outcome will be NBNCo completing their MTM network then writing off tens of billions. using their newfound “profitability” deploying P2P fibre to the boundary from exchanges. RSPs choosing the appropriate technology for the end customer and introducing infrastructure competition at both ends and backhaul.

    Transparent subsidies for uncompetitively serviced areas (regional). Model successfully utilised in many markets.

    Taxpayers will be hit with the losses, but far less than the alternatives. Our GBE is massively inefficient.

    • The fact that you use the term “completing the MTM network” shows that you do not understand how the internet works at all.

      COMPLETE is when 90%+ is fibre to the premises. Even Malcolm Turnbull agrees that fibre to the home is the end goal. So where is this “transition” [to use a Turnbullism] to the new economy and technology? When will this copper and FTTN [which is a fancy name for ADSL 3] be upgraded to full fibre? So far this excuse for a conservative government doesn’t want to talk about that. Because they know that FTTN will have to be torn up at great time and expense to be replaced with full fibre.

      But what a waste of good ideas on such a mediocre mind as yours.

      • The fact that you use the term “COMPLETE is when 90%+ is fibre to the premises” shows that you do not understand how the internet works at all.

        That Turnbull agrees fibre to the home is the end goal means nothing.

        FTTN won’t have to be “torn up” for a FTTH network, indeed the required fibre for GPON is already being provisioned to the nodes.

        Another descends with no idea (nor competition emphasised in my post).

        • Rubbish.

          Tell me. HOW do you upgrade from FTTN to FTTP? Tell me.
          You have not addressed that issue; your point about gpon has no relevance at all.

          • @mm Scott option is valid, however it’s more likely they’ll use split the (minimum) 8-fibre cores reserved for GPON.

          • “drop optical line cards into the nodes”

            No room…

            “pull local fibre through”

            If you have to pull fibre, why would you limit yourself by goint to the nodes? It would be cheaper and easier to go directly and bypass the nodes (which is what they do now), and it gets even easier with in-line hubs and skinny fibre. The bottom line is, the nodes are worthless for FTTP…

        • “FTTN won’t have to be “torn up” for a FTTH network, indeed the required fibre for GPON is already being provisioned to the nodes”

          I am sorry but you are completely misinformed. The Technology Choice Program (FoD) has not connected a single recipient of the upgrade to the node. 100% of the connections of the FTTP upgrade have had to be done back at the nearest fibre multiplex (usually the exchange).
          This is why the average cost is $13k…

          • ‘One off’ is always going to be more expensive than upgrading a whole suburb, where every single residence is upgraded.

          • @c I’m not “misinformed”, some self-reflection is required.

            NBNCo FoD’s failure is not a technical problem, but one of their own making. As posted previously it is unlikely they’ve installed the technology required to light the dark fibres reserved for the fibre option.

            Paying $13k for an NBNCo service is ridiculous. Many options available for that price (in most areas), far better product.

          • “‘One off’ is always going to be more expensive than upgrading a whole suburb, where every single residence is upgraded”

            You’ve missed the point entirely…there is not enough fibre in the nodes to upgrade a whole area, that’s why they have to go all the way back to the exchange in most cases.

          • “Paying $13k for an NBNCo service is ridiculous. Many options available for that price (in most areas), far better product”

            That is the average…the high end never got done.
            There have been many quotes in the $30-50k range as well, and obviously they were not taken.

            ” it is unlikely they’ve installed the technology required to light the dark fibres reserved for the fibre option”

            Huh?? There are 4 fibres per node…there is no provision designed into the nodes for an upgrade to FTTP at all.

          • “there are min 12 fibres per node; 4 reserved for 7330, remainder for upgrades.”

            Not what the field techs have been saying over in Whirlpool…
            they say they have 4 fibres…2 lit and 2 dark.

          • BTW R, it makes sense to limit the cores as there is no room in the nodes for splitters or new cards left…which means there is nothing you could do with the additional cores anyway.
            The nodes will need to be abandoned when the upgrade happens.

          • Lol wrong again since g.fast requires around 200m length of copper and the average length from node to pillar is 350m. So no it’s not the next upgrade setup.

          • Exactly JK
            After 100m, G.Fast performance drops like a stone.
            They would need 3 times the nodes being deployed.

          • Well Chad it will be more than 3x as g.fast only supports 20 connection ATM compared to the average 192 on FTTN

          • Despite the in depth G.fast analysis from the two amateur armchair ‘Eddie the G.fast experts’ in Australia BT in the UK plans to widely deploy G.fast in 2016/17.

          • Lol devoid unlike the amateur armchair of you again what was the % of HFC Turnbull was going to use in his 2013 pre election policy. BT has a lot more people closer to the mode than Australia does.

          • Aside from Alternate’s bizarre rants he forgets that they have FTTC in the UK…less than 100m is fairly common.

            Sadly, Alternate loves to compare apples and horseshoes…

          • “The problem is what here?”

            The problem is that the Coalition, Labor, and NBNCo themselves have all said that installing FTTdp is not economically advisable in Australia.

            It would be cheaper to go directly with FTTP…

          • @c writes
            “makes sense to limit the cores as there is no room in the nodes for splitters or new cards left”

            Actually most 7330 are provisioned with slots available. Splitters to be located in pits (see skinny fibre model).

            Sure the “experts” at WP can help;-)

            “It would be cheaper to go directly with FTTP…”

            Entering premises the most expensive component of FTTH. Technologies avoiding it will save about 50%. No one has said FTTdp is not “economically advisable” simply waiting for the technology to be fully commercialised.

            Again if extending fibre further into the network run p2p fibre to the boundary and let RSPs compete. Few will be going FTTH. Taxpayers and consumers will save billions.

          • Chas,

            have all said that installing FTTdp is not economically advisable in Australia.

            …. at the moment, but as the current NBN Co is busy finishing FTTN and HFC there is heaps of time in the future if it is required to look at FTTN upgrade paths, BT will have done all the hard work for them by then.

            I anticipate some NBN FTTdp and or FTTrN rollouts before 2020.

            It would be cheaper to go directly with FTTP…

            I understand BT should have checked with you first before undergoing extensive G.fast trials, but that is unknown, not even the one sided Chas crystal ball knows what the future holds.

          • “I anticipate some NBN FTTdp and or FTTrN rollouts before 2020”

            You’re kidding, right? Just so you understand what you are suggesting, you think we will change FTTN to FTTdp, then add G.Fast.
            So for a higher price than FTTP, you want to go FTTdp…even though it is only a fraction of the speed and costs far more to run and is much less upgrade-able? I see…

            “I understand BT should have checked with you first before undergoing extensive G.fast trials”

            Again, you are being quite foolish…let me say this slowly for you:

            BT already has FTTdp…they do not need to spend more money rolling it out, so G.Fast is a cheap way for them to upgrade the folks already stuck.

            NBN Co do NOT have FTTdp, and they WOULD have to spend a fortune rolling it out…so why do that?

            You seem fixated on G.Fast at the cost of everything else for some reason…even if it is more expensive and slower.

          • “Actually most 7330 are provisioned with slots available”

            Go have a look…no slots in any of the FTTN cabinets I have seen yet. That is confirmed by anyone who has looked at them…
            If you can find one or 2 with available slots, please snap a photo for us…

            “Sure the “experts” at WP can help”

            You mean the guys who have been snapping photos of the cabinets inside and out? They seem pretty solid to me…
            That reminds me, what is the source of your own asserted “facts”?

            “Entering premises the most expensive component of FTTH. Technologies avoiding it will save about 50%”

            Do you have a source for that? Because it sure doesn’t seem to be the case in the US, Singapore, NZ, the UK, or anywhere else in the world…

          • Because it sure doesn’t seem to be the case in the US, Singapore, NZ, the UK, or anywhere else in the world…

            Do you have a source for that?

          • “even Chorus in senate estimates earlier in the year.”

            Chorus are no longer deploying FTTN

            Suck it up liar!!!

          • “Wrong, Chorus FTTN is still the infrastructure choice for rural areas.”

            BULLSHIT!

            The RBI has been completed! The RBI was never extended after 2013. In the not to distant future they will be over built with FTTH

            Crawl back under your fricking rock, troll!

          • Following the upgrades, most residents and businesses should now be able to experience speeds of between 10 and 20Mbps, depending on the distance to the broadband cabinet.

            So it wouldn’t even be classed as broadband in the USA…

          • “Chorus has completed its work under the Government’s Rural Broadband Initiative (RBI) in Bay of Plenty.”

            9th June 2016: Chorus completed the $234 million RBI bid to UPGRADE CABINETS that where designated in 2013. Chorus was congratulated by Communications Minister Amy Adams on its completion.

            https://www.chorus.co.nz/rural-broadband-initiative-completed-faster-broadband-for-hundreds-of-thousands

            You don’t do any research! You only needed to check Chorus’s website! LMAO!

            But you are much too busy with your dick shoved into the mouth of a dead pig.

            Keep humping it retard!!!!

          • “So June 2016 comes before 2013 does it?”

            It does for a 19th century Luddite.

            Apparently they also don’t know the difference between a network deployment and an upgrade of 1200 cabinets!

            Chorus dropped the FTTN rollout from the mix in 2013

            The RBI project is now completed.

            Suck it up moron!

          • “So it wouldn’t even be classed as broadband in the USA…”

            As part of the U.S. Federal Communications Commission 2015 Broadband Progress Report, it voted to change the definition of BROADBAND to a minimum of 25Mbps download and 3Mbps upload.

            FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel wants to increase the minimum broadband standards far past the new 25Mbps download threshold, up to 100Mbps. “We invented the internet.”

            http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/29/7932653/fcc-changed-definition-broadband-25mbps

            When it come to decisions regarding telecommunications in the United States, the FCC rule the roost.

          • @r
            “very first google image shows typically half capacity provisioned 7330:”

            You mean the test node from October last year? What’s your point?
            All the test nodes were only half filled…
            http://news.smarthouse.com.au/resources/articleimages/irqgtvnj_embeded_image_1.jpg

            However as they are made RFS, they are completely filled.

            https://11217-presscdn-0-50-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/fifield1-696×522.jpg

            http://www.abc.net.au//technology/images/general/blogs/nr/nbn/telstracab2.jpg

            I also find it sad that you sneer at the folks on Whirlpool when they obviously have far more knowledge than you do…you should pay more attention to them.

    • “Transparent subsidies for uncompetitively serviced areas (regional). Model successfully utilised in many markets.”
      Except any Australian market, as demonstrated for the last 25 years.

      • Plenty of regional infrastructure subsidies examples: Regional Backbone Blackspots Program, Regional Gas Infrastructure Program, Mobile Black Spot Programme, …

        Competition policy practically mandated there use before Conroy exempted his policy folly.

        • Oh yes that’s right. And why was the Mobile Black Spot programme required? Total failure for commercial enterprise to provide adequate services to people in the first place.

          As usual, government needs to step in to remedy the issue and provide for the people.

          Thanks for finally confirming what everyone else has always said.

          • The mobile black spot program is a combined Government private mobile telco companies rollout, funded by both.

          • @hotc areas not commercially viable (regional) best addressed by sudsidies (as above), Conroy’s massively inefficient NBNCo is overbuilding high-value commercial areas.

            That you see my post as confirmation of what “everyone else has said” exposes a shallowness your understanding (mine and theirs).

    • The best outcome would be the Coalition working for the people of Australia instead of themselves, and doing exactly what Labor proposed…
      Considering that the rest of the world is already deploying at a much higher rate and will be completed before we have begun, beginning the conversion to FTTP immediately would be economic (though admittedly not political) sanity.
      It is sad that truth in advertising laws do not adhere to the field of politics…

      • @c what truth? Infrastructure reuse is a financially and technically sound option (many examples). 8 years and tens of billions wasted are a historical reality and can’t be undone.

        FTTH delivery was a disaster. NBNCo revenue model proving to be another. So where to from here?

        MTM already proving its speed to deploy and cost advantages, see my weekly progress graphs. Sadly costing far more than expected, but the blame lies with NBNCo and its inefficiencies ($1600+700 / FTTN premise is unparalleled). As posted if fibre is to extended further into the network take the inefficient player out; restrict it to provisioning/maintenance p2p fibre on public land and step back. Competent telcos will deliver a superior service and introduce much needed competition (shown to benefit consumers; see ADSL2+ deployments).

        • “Infrastructure reuse is a financially and technically sound option”

          Only if it maintains the goal of the project. The goal of NBN is to keep Australia on par in telecommunications with the world. As the rest of the world will be on gigabit enabled networks by 2020, obviously the MTM has failed this purpose.

          http://www2.deloitte.com/global/en/pages/technology-media-and-telecommunications/articles/tmt-pred16-telecomm-dawn-of-the-gigabit-internet-age.html#full-report

          “we forecast about 600 million subscribers may be on networks that offer a Gigabit tariff as of 2020, representing the majority of connected homes in the world”

          • The goal of the policy was to deliver ubiquitous high speed internet. You made up the rest.

          • “The goal of the policy was to deliver ubiquitous high speed internet”

            And the reason for that delivery is? Yup…to stay on par with the rest of the world. Did you think that it was just to have it there?

            Yes, the faster the broadband the greater the GDP…but more to the point, we cannot be competitive in the Global Economy without being competitive in telecommunications. It is just economic fact…

          • The ‘rest of the world’ broadband is not just defined by FTTP just because you say so.

            we cannot be competitive in the Global Economy without being competitive in telecommunications. It is just economic fact…

            You just made that up, once again being competitive is not defined by FTTP just because you say so, our GDP is reliant on the fact we are enormous mining pit.

          • Lol Richard
            “The goal of the policy was to deliver ubiquitous high speed internet.”

            Nope it’s not even delivering what other counties are now calling broadband let alone high speed.

          • Competitive in this case is defined by Gigabit capabilities which FTTP has but FTTN does not.
            And the time frame is by 2020

            Mining is less than 6% of our GDP and falling

          • So what is the historical record of Australian FTTP areas contributing to the GDP, FTTP has been active even before the NBN for many many years now.

          • “So what is the historical record of Australian FTTP areas contributing to the GDP”

            As the numbers of FTTP connections are so few and it is not ubiquitous, I can’t think of a model that could tell us.
            The GDP gain is not based on a per user statistic but on a national statistic. The historical record globally (including here) is that for every doubling of the broadband speed, there is a .3% gain in GDP.

          • Yes got that, we have been down that rabbit hole many times before.

            Doubling of BB speed is not singularly defined by one eyed biased Chasenomics as just being FTTP.

            I can’t think of a model that could tell us.

            You don’t seem to have any problems making up models to suit when pushing a FTTN bashing exercise, but you can’t think of an Australian example to support your FTTP argument.

            Funny that eh?

          • “Doubling of BB speed is not singularly defined by one eyed biased Chasenomics as just being FTTP”

            But as you have always, always, always ignored…Gigabit speed is the international standard for 2020, and FTTN cannot make that happen at all. It is a fools errand and all of your attempts to rationalize the MTM cannot escape that very simple and concrete fact.

            “You don’t seem to have any problems making up models”

            I am quoting models, not making them up…that appears to be your area of expertise.

          • It’s not a standard, it is just a prediction by one firm of how many people will have a gigabit service in 2020.

            Looking further ahead, we forecast about 600 million subscribers may be on networks that offer a Gigabit tariff as of 2020,

            You do understand what ‘may be on’ means?

          • “It’s not a standard”

            A standard means that it is used by the majority, yes? 600 million homes is the VAST majority! What exactly do you think a standard is?

            One of the most prestigious firms in the world for making these determinations is Deloitte…unlike those morons at Communications Chambers that Turnbull hired who predicted demand to be a 15 Mbps mean. In the US, that doesn’t even qualify as broadband (the FCC states that anything less than 25 Mbps throughput cannot even be called broadband).

          • 600 million homes is the VAST majority!

            That’s a prediction of what may happen by 2020, not what is happening, it still is not a ‘standard’ just because you think it may happen.

          • oh it’s 2020 already, that was quick.

            Not my fault you can’t work out what a trend looks like.

            :)

            :o)

          • You mean like NBN 100/40 sign ups reducing?

            Exactly, you never figured that one out either! :o)

          • Don’t have to figure out anything, they are in your face NBN Co statistics, the move from 100/40 started before FTTN took hold and the overwhelming majority of users were on FTTP.

          • Idiot

            considering labor only expected 20% on 100Mbps 14% so far isn’t bad.

            But considering Turnbull NBN expecting 30% on FTTP st 100Mbps and 20% on FTTN shows they are way off there mark.

        • “Infrastructure reuse is a financially and technically sound option (many examples).”
          Except in Australia, as demonstrated for the last 25 years.

          “FTTH delivery was a disaster.”
          Yup, $6b to design the foundation of a world class, economy producing network, only to spend a further $20b to demolish it again and restore power to the monopolies.

          “So where to from here?”
          A downwards spiral, until 2030 minimum.

          “MTM already proving its speed to deploy and cost advantages”
          How’s that 25Mbps to all Australians in 2016 going? No? Haven’t tripled the original plans budget? No also? Whoopsiedoodle.

          “$1600+700 / FTTN premise is unparalleled”
          No ones demolishes a country like the Liberals. Observe; OECD #1 left by Gillard/Rudd government, previous term on record as worst economic leadership since Menzies.

          • A downwards spiral

            Nailed it.

            How’s that 25Mbps to all Australians in 2016 going?

            167 days left btw.

            No ones demolishes a country like the Liberals.

            Nailed it.

  3. “we need to have a plan in place that will bring us to the next phase of full fibre deployment”

    It’s the coalition clowns and GimpCo, I wouldn’t expect much Paul. 25mbps according to them is good enough and they are notorious for wasting time and money. Exactly why they came up with their MTM patchwork clusterfuck brain fart in the first place.

    • coalition clowns and GimpCo …. MTM patchwork clusterfuck brain fart.

      That’s the just the best bits, and you wonder why the Coalition won the election again with the NBN MtM model.

      • “the Coalition won the election” but lost a HUGE amount of support and just got in by the skin of their teeth..a significant portion of that was due to the NBN (e.g. Tasmania)

        • Chas,

          a significant portion of that was due to the NBN (e.g. Tasmania)

          You just made that up, like the content of the majority of your posts, so if you insist with that fiction it is logical to assume therefore the Coalition won the election because of their NBN MtM , and also in 2013 when they won with even a larger majority.

          • I don’t know what you’re on about…Australia has not dumped a first-term government in 85 years, but they came within a hairs breadth of it this election.
            Considering the huge betrayal by Turnbull in Tasmania, I can’t understand why it should surprise you that they completely rejected the Coalition this election.

          • “So why is the NBN key when a Coalition seat is lost but not when it is won?”

            Because the approval rating of NBNCo (even among Coalition supporters) is abysmal…

          • What approval rating, I though a election was the ultimate approval rating, but only if Labor had won of course.

            Double standards one eyed bias applied as usual Chas.

          • “I though a election was the ultimate approval rating”

            I see, so you don’t even know there’s a difference between overall approval and approval on different subjects? That kind of makes your understanding pretty limited, and it also probably makes you not understand why people vote for independents…
            You have a lot of learning to do it seems…good luck with that.

          • and it also probably makes you not understand why people vote for independents…

            Do you want to have a look at the seat of New England or is that not what you meant?

          • “Do you want to have a look at the seat of New England or is that not what you meant?”

            That kind of confirms it…you don’t understand why so many independents were elected, all you seem to know is how to mindlessly cheer for your team.

          • Hello, New England was not won by the Independent Windsor, a long time strong and vocal supporter of FTTP.

            That kind of confirms what?

          • “New England was not won by the Independent Windsor”

            True…and? What is your point?

            “That kind of confirms what?”

            That you have very little understanding of why an independent is elected…

          • That kind of makes your understanding pretty limited

            Such limited understanding indicative of why they think the MTM clusterfuck will be adequate. Personally I think you are wasting your time trying to educate them Chas. So far they’ve failed to understand even the basics after all these years, guessing they still wont get it even after the coalitions clowns disastrous MTM mess is inevitably fixed.

          • So why is the NBN key when a Coalition seat is lost but not when it is won?

            You mean like in Petrie?

          • Such limited understanding indicative of why they think the MTM clusterfuck will be adequate. Personally I think you are wasting your time trying to educate them Chas. So far they’ve failed to understand even the basics after all these years, guessing they still wont get it even after the coalitions clowns disastrous MTM mess is inevitably fixed.

            Nailed it.

          • @Deluded-Reality,

            In 2013 Labor had had a lot of in-fighting in the press & press stoking the fires, even though Labor were still running the country well enough.

            In 2013 Abbott lied about pretty much every policy & especially during the debates when Rudd looked to question Abbott about policies etc..

            In 2013 Rupert owning a shit-tonne of news media slagged off Labor no end,(especially utilising the multi-leader swapages)… Giving bs praise to the Coalition at every opportunity.

            Re. Tasmania Mtm FTT(node); Tasmania was scheduled to receive a full rollout of FTTP for all areas where fixed wireless & satellite were not going to be used.

            Malcolm lied his ass,(effectively) via deviously constructed statements & answers, implying to most people listening to him, that all Tasmanian contracts for FTTP would be honoured & all builds that would’ve been FTTP under Labor in Tasmania would stay FTTP.

            http://www.examiner.com.au/story/1711548/turnbull-confirms-nbn-will-honour-contracts/

            https://delimiter.com.au/2014/03/14/reversal-switkowski-admits-tassie-nbn-contracts-specified-fttp/

            https://delimiter.com.au/2014/02/13/switkowski-confirms-fttn-tasmania/

            Can’t seem to find Renais’ article where he too was suckered into believing Turnbulls trickery,(maybe Renais’ was just a long comment, not an article, as I do remember him going off at some commenters that didn’t believe the Turnbull FTTP contracts statements at face value, as Renai had,[ultimately the non-believers were proved correct]).

            So to summerise Reality, Tassie people thought they were still getting FTTP when they voted in the Liberals.

            In 2016 Tassie people knew they were lied too,(effectively, if not directly) & that they’d be getting FTT(node), or for the Liberals to save some money, or time, they might instead be shafted onto fixed Wireless or Satellite,(re. West Coast) instead.

            So in 2016 knowing they weren’t to get FTTP from the Liberals, they voted against the Coalition.

            [Other issues also help obviously]

            ie.
            2013 We’ll still get FTTP, ok, lets vote Coalition & see how they do in government.

            2016 The fuckers lied & won’t give us FTTP, but Labor will; So we all banded together to fuck the Liberals off.

            Later, RIPP.

          • BTW., I was a non-sucker & knew Turnbull was bs’ing Tassie, so no 2013 votes went to the Coalition from me.

          • Rizz,

            They didn’t need your vote.

            So we all banded together to fuck the Liberals off.

            It didn’t work, it also didn’t work in 2013, have a deep think about your BS and personal abuse strategy and try again in 2019.

            ROFL

          • @Reality

            Get your fingers out of your bum, the ear plugs out of you ears & the rose coloured LNP glasses off your face.

            Sure it may feel good to you now, but to all who see you here, it’s just plain cringeworthy embarressing.

            Ps. Tasmanian people did fuck-off the lying federal Liberals from our state in 2016.

            Tasmanians don’t get to change mainland votes you know.

            The LNP were almost a 1 term government; I believe from a post above by Chas it’s been 85 years apparently since a government lost after just 1 term. So we all came pretty close.

            LNP from the huge number of seats they won in 2013, lost a rather big number of seats in 2016.

            LNP will likely be lucky if they can see a year, or 2 out before melting down; Let-alone a full & FUNCTIONAL term in government.

            BTW., I’M still not Rizz, dipshit…

            You’re Welcome,…(for the lolz XD).

            Later, RIPP :)

          • Tinman_au,

            You mean like in Petrie?

            What is so significant about the seat of Petrie?

          • What is so significant about the seat of Petrie?

            You’ve forgotten that article/discussion already?

          • I have never discussed Petrie, what are you on about?

            Yes you did…we both did, and pretty well everyone else in this thread too…

            Are we finally getting to the crux of your “groundhog day” arguement issues Alain? You just really do forget things quickly?

      • well 1. Coalition were first term incumbent government, coming that close was a win for Shorten albeit a small one.

        2. the dodgy nature of xDSL means that unlike with fibre plans, unlike with dialup plans you really don’t have a good ballpark figure for what speed you are on. you don’t choose a tier and be done with it so unlike in the late 90’s you can’t say “I’m on 56k” – nobody knows the units (general public) not even the politicians pushing the various tech outside of people like Turnbull,Clare,Husic and Fifield.

        the nation doesn’t have a handle on what is value for money as megabits per dollar per month go and as reliability goes.
        its near impossible to sell the NBN without bipartisanship but its easy to sink one party’s version of it though once the pool is muddied it is near impossible to get the public interested again.

        • Coalition were first term incumbent government, coming that close was a win for Shorten albeit a small one.

          A win? I wasn’t aware Shorten was PM and Labor had the majority.

          Let’s look at the recent history of the elections, 2007 Labor won on a FTTN policy, 2010 hung Parliament, Labor and the Coalition same number of seats, 2013 Coalition win with a healthy majority, 2016 Coalition win with a reduced majority.

          So 2010 was really the only election that the electorate came close to supporting the Labor NBN FTTP model, that’s if you call a 50-50 split a resounding endorsement of FTTP.

          • No first term Government has been dumped in 85 years, yet Turnbull was in a hairs breadth of becoming a history maker. I call that a win!

          • Call it what you like if you makes you sleep easier, but you still wake up tomorrow with Turnbull as PM and the Coalition in Government rolling out FTTN with zero change to the MtM model.

          • “but you still wake up tomorrow with Turnbull as PM”

            True…that and terrorism worry me quite a bit.

          • Turnbull also had 17/18 newspapers support him to the hilt. Also, they ignored issues that would have harmed him. For instance the media knew that Baird was going to ban greyhound racing. If that had been Labor it would have been on the front page of every Murdoch press paper.

            With that degree of media and political nexus propaganda support, all designed to protect the wealth of the 1%, Turnbull’s result was absolutely and totally pathetic.

          • Chas,

            No first term Government has been dumped in 85 years, yet Turnbull was in a hairs breadth of becoming a history maker. I call that a win!

            2010 was closer than 2016 and the Gillard Government was nearly dumped after one term, was that a win for the Coalition using Chas logic?

          • “2010 was closer than 2016”

            But the swing was only a fraction of what it was in 2016…

          • Oh it’s the swing now that is the decider not the nearly losing in the first term thing, so I take it you don’t what to look at the 2013 swing then.

            Keep dancing Chas.

            lol

          • “so I take it you don’t what to look at the 2013 swing then”

            Oh no…I think that Labor got what it deserved in 2013. Did you think that was due to the NBN or something?

  4. If we pull the camera back, we can see how the Internet is the network of the future.

    NBNCo cannot be a monopoly simply because it does not provide a retail broadband service.

    It provides an ubiquitous Ethernet Bitstream Service to deliver Layer 2 packets (Ethernet virtual circuit) between the network boundaries, Network to Network Interface, to the User Network Interface at the customers’ premises. It consists for 4 configurable components that act as building blocks so that RSPs can tailor the service into their retail offerings thus encouraging competition.

    Case Study – Chattanooga City
    EPB Fiber is not the only provider of gigabit broadband in the city. Recently AT&T GigaPower (the leader) and Comcast FTTH Gigabit Pro, are deploying services in Tennessee.

    It is strange that Comcast are deploying FTTH in the State. 8 years ago it tried to sue the City of Chattanooga.
    http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/10/10gbps-internet-offered-by-city-fighting-anti-muni-broadband-laws/

    • You left out that Comcast is upgrading its extensive HFC network where the majority of their customers are connected with DOCSIS 3.1, smart move using existing infrastructure instead of overbuilding it with expensive new FTTH.

      Hey that’s just what the NBN Co is doing, and what Labor would have done if they had won the election.

      • But troll devoid idiot 3.1 is over Milland a waste of money isn’t for the NBN when we only need 15Mbps by 2023.

        Or the real question is why are they upgrading HFC to gbs potential when FTTN can’t even come close.

        • excellent question. HFC i know next to nothing about but why not fix contention ratio on current HFC and leave it at that if lots of FTTN customers will be stuck around 30mbps or so. what is the max upload speed on DOCSIS 3.0 ?

      • is there any big technical wall or bottleneck (whichever analogy is most apt) with HFC ? i.e. will there be DOCSIS 3.2 – 4.0 etc with big speed increases

        • There are several problems with HFC, the first of which is the extreme high cost.
          http://tinyurl.com/z9n5b5c
          That white paper from ITU and written by John Brouse, Director of Network Implementation at Charter Communications clearly shows a cost for HFC at 12 times that of FTTP. But that paper was written over 10 years ago and the cost of FTTP is a tiny fraction of that today.

          • Charter Communications have recently acquired Time Warner Cable and Bright House Network. Charter are currently demolishing TWM’s headquarters. The brand was a failure!

            In America, HFC will soon be obsolete as the old telephone network is currently being retired!!

            Reality! You’re obsolete Backwater Boy!

          • “I am not aware Comcast is dismantling it and replacing it with FTTP.”

            If you read the white paper I linked, you will see that decommissioning HFC is inevitable, and probably fairly soon.
            The cost of HFC is far greater than FTTP…
            That white paper was written by Comcast…

          • “Really, so why are Comcast bothering with DOCSIS 3.1, they need something to do?”

            To squeeze what they can out of what’s left of their HFC network. They are just a cable company and don’t have the funding to do a nationwide rollout all at once. Therefore they have to do maintenance on some of their existing network.
            What they aren’t doing is buying up HFC networks or rolling out new networks, as HFC is far too old a technology and too costly to do that.

            BTW, it is important to note that they too know that Gigabit is the new global standard…

          • “Really, so why are Comcast bothering with DOCSIS 3.1, they need something to do?”

            I will punch it in twice for you! It is very likely that you don’t know what Comcast’s Gigabit Pro product is and you are still confused as I provided this same information more than a month ago. Is your brain stuck in a loop?

            Comcast’s DOCSIS 3.1 trial, which was announced in March this year, is only available in Atlanta.

            In the meantime Comcast are deploying Gigabit Pro (FTTP) to 18 million homes and business on their service area.

            Suck it up!!!

          • Chas,

            What they aren’t doing is buying up HFC networks or rolling out new networks,

            Just like the NBN Co, glad you agree it is the correct approach to take.

            BTW, it is important to note that they too know that Gigabit is the new global standard…

            Yeah I know they do, hence the DOCSIS 3.1 trials with the aim of commercial upgrading their HFC infrastructure in 2016/2017.

          • “Just like the NBN Co”

            The Coalition did indeed buy up a used HFC network as well as the copper PSTN network. They have taken on all of Telstra’s debt in those networks (many, many billions)…that was a huge price.

            “hence the DOCSIS 3.1 trials”

            In Atlanta…and it too will be replaced very soon. HFC is just too expensive to keep much longer, and Comcast published the white paper with the figures to prove it.

        • Yeah so it is, it is still not HFC overbuild, it is all about taking on competitors in cherry picked select areas of the USA.

          • Why would a private company overbuild their own (albeit quite old and degraded) network? What is the upside?

            Even though they lose marketshare in the cable areas, it is still less than starting over…what’s your point?

          • “you still don’t know why”

            You are correct…I (and probably most folks) have no idea what you are on about…

          • “Why would a private company overbuild their own (albeit quite old and degraded) network? What is the upside?”

            COMPETITION!!!!!

            Are you not aware that cable companies in the U.S. are on death row? The FCC has recently made a ruling regarding set-top boxes because they want to get rid of them. The Cable TV market is rapidly shrinking.

            Reality
            “You left out that Comcast is upgrading its extensive HFC network where the majority of their customers are connected with DOCSIS 3.1”

            BULLSHIT!

            Comcast are overbuilding their HFC network with a passive optical 2 Gbps GPON/FTTH. A Gigabit Pro plan will sting you for $300 a month. They also plan to upgrade to 10Gbps once the network is built out. The first phase plan is to 18 million homes in Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Tennessee, and California.

          • “Yeah so it is, it is still not HFC overbuild, it is all about taking on competitors in cherry picked select areas of the USA”

            You are bubbling like well fed yeast!!!

          • “COMPETITION”

            I agree, however why would they not build elsewhere first?
            It is true that the HFC networks are dying (the reason for that is in that white paper I posted), but the most optimised profits will come with new FTTP in areas where they are not present yet, thereby avoiding competing with themselves.

            It is true that there are only a few years of HFC left in most countries…I expect DOCSIS 3.1 will be the last upgrade they get before total decommissioning, and it is nowhere near enough to compete with NG-PON2. Maybe another 5 years and they will start ripping it out…

          • Chas

            The U.S. are retiring the old telephone network and going 100% fiber in the FCC’s IP Transition (Google it) which is currently in full swing. Estimates are by 2020 there will be nothing left of the old network.

            HFC is not capable of delivering digital phone, multicast IPTV and broadband or supporting innovative municipal applications that have been proven in Chattanooga that have attracted entrepreneurs and startups. It is the wish of the FCC to have at least one Chattanooga look-alike center in each State as soon as possible.

            Implementing DOCSIS3.1 is simply a mechanism to temporarily extend the life of encumbant (redundant) HFC networks in a small handful of cities while they continue deploying FTTH across their footprint.

            Comcast have about 22 million Internet customers on their footprint to upgrade. Their video customers are dropping like flies because of their competitors and cord-cutting. Verizon, AT&T and Google Fiber operate in the same areas. To keep their head above water and stay competitive they are starting with a GPON/FTTH overbuild/extension to 18 million customers. No doubt the remaining 4 million customers will be overbuilt in not too distant future.

          • I am sure there will not be much left of the exchanged based Telstra PSTN system by 2020 here either.

            The government backed NBN rollout here is in no way similar to what private telcos are doing in the USA , cherry picking the areas to roll out competing high speed infrastructure.

            We don’t have fixed line infrastructure competition of any significant scale in Australia.

            If a city here wants to attract businesses like Chattanooga is trying to do a local council could partially fund a FTTP rollout with the NBN Co.

            Beyond the garbage collection and keeping the parks and gardens mown etc I don’t see a local council pushing that sort of initiative at a communications level.

          • @keep-moving-goalposts-&-bs-Reality,

            “…a local council could partially fund a FTTP rollout with the NBN Co.

            …I don’t see a local council pushing that sort of initiative at a communications level.”

            Some locations/councils etc., have tried looking to pay the area-switch to FTTP; Upon applying for a quote of costs, receiving back just 2 pages with scant detail & millions of dollars in costs quoted,(but no proper detail).

            All this after paying thousands of dollars for the quotes,($10,000+ in numerous cases) that are supposedly non-refundable.

            However, nbn have so pissed off one of the area switch councils that they’re seeking a refund.

            http://www.examiner.com.au/story/3717994/council-call-for-10000-nbn-refund/

            So go hop back in your hole Reality; It’s still winter, little groundhog.

            Later, RIPP :)

          • The government backed NBN rollout here is is no way similar to what private telcos are doing in the USA

            Indeed, they are using a lot more fibre ;o)

          • …. and upgrading HFC.

            Indeed, but that’s an important point you’ve brought up, they are “upgrading” the existing HFC, not “installing” new HFC, correct?

          • “The government backed NBN rollout here is in no way similar to what private telcos are doing in the USA , cherry picking the areas to roll out competing high speed infrastructure.”

            So you think the U.S. Federal Government and the FCC’s $350 billion National Broadband Plan to deploy 100% fiber and retire the old telephone network is “Cherry Picking” do you?

            You’re sizzling like a pork chop!!

          • You’re sizzling like a pork chop!!

            Mmmmm…pork….it’s hard not to feel sorry for the humble pig….they just taste so good…poor buggers…

          • “Yeah so it is, it is still not HFC overbuild, it is all about taking on competitors in cherry picked select areas of the USA.”

            BULLSHIT!

          • lol Rizz doing his ‘American routine’, do you wear a Stetson to get into character?

          • “lol Rizz doing his ‘American routine’, do you wear a Stetson to get into character?”

            I beg your pardon!

            I can only reply to that statement by calling you an Aussie HICK!

            Go and bonk your sheep retard!

          • “South Australia’s “Gig City” plan is hyped-up nonsense”

            That article is bullshit!

            Premier Jay Weatherill has toured Chattanooga, Tennessee, to view the city revitalisation that has occurred through the use of high-speed broadband.

            In the City of Adelaide, The Smart City applications are currently being piloted and IoT devices have been deployed around the city.

            Are you illiterate?
            http://gigcity.com.au/

      • Reality

        HFC is incapable of providing telecommunications infrastructure for Wireless Mesh Networks and Smart City applications.

      • “Comcast is upgrading its extensive HFC network where the majority of their customers are connected with DOCSIS 3.1”

        Reality! Pull the other leg, it plays Jingle-Bells!
        Your statement is completely false. Comcast is now one of only five markets remaining.

        The catch is Comcast’s DOCSIS3.1 is only available on a trial basis in Atlanta. The other catch is only Atlanta residents can apply for the trial. The other catch is the successful applicants have to sign a three year deal.

        Google Fiber has partnered with Atlanta City and utilises some of the city’s existing municipally operated fiber lines and AT&T GigaPower (100 cities target) also has a powerful presence in Atlanta as they continuously expand in this area. AT&T GigaPower is a 100% optical-fiber network.

        Update your troll scripts Reality because it demonstrates that you are out-of-date. But I know that it takes all that brain power there just to move your legs.

        • Yeah got all of that, in the meantime the NBN HFC here is being activated for NBN use and ISP resell and eventually will get DOCSIS 3.1.

          Even Labor worked out it was smart to keep the Telstra and Optus HFC infrastructure and it was a major feature of their NBN policy, the HFC is not being replaced with new infrastructure anytime soon, get over it.

          • Soon they will discover HFC network is not fit for purpose to support emerging applications. EVENTUALLY

            The only reason why Labor kept HFC is because there are contractual agreements with Telstra and Optus. But they could be renegotiated any time. Also current HFC networks are confined to metro areas. I know some people in Sydney who aren’t even on the HFC footprint let alone ADSL2+

            Your false statements indicate that you haven’t done your research and that you don’t understand the USD$350 billion U.S. National Broadband Plan and The IP Transition!

          • Rubbish reality. Labor do not want to use the HFC. But the ship of fools called the Noalition has taken the MTM and its contracts beyond a point of no return.

          • No one is on NBN HFC beyond the trial areas, it would have been very easy for Labor to announce HFC would be overbuilt with FTTP, they had no problem announcing that’s what would happen with 2M residences in Coalition FTTN target areas.

            It’s quite simple, Labor realised overbuilding HFC was not the smart thing to announce in 2016 and keep to their $57B cap and have it all finished with the extra 2M on FTTP by 2022.

          • No devoid if labor decided not to use the HFC NBN would still have to keep the whole thing running for Foxtel

          • Labor didn’t decide to drop HFC did they, your FOXTEL rant is irrelevant, it was before because FOXTEL is available on IPTV and Presto a FOXTEL company uses IPTV, so it is even more irrelevant now.

            All the other IPTV products like Netflix etc will work ok on NBN HFC.

          • “No devoid if labor decided not to use the HFC NBN would still have to keep the whole thing running for Foxtel”

            Exactly…the huge price we paid for HFC and the rest of the copper is in taking on the debt and maintenance of those networks no matter what.

          • “Labor didn’t decide to drop HFC did they”

            They couldn’t afford to with the ugly contract the Coalition put us in.

            “because FOXTEL is available on IPTV”

            What does that have to do with the contractual obligation???

          • Lol devoid has no clue

            That’s to your hero Turnbull NBN made a deal that once they start using the HFC they take control all of it where they use it or not so Foxtel can keep using it. So since they have already started using it thanks to the trials or would you prefer the taxpayer pickup the bill for the running cost of the HFC the NBN wouldn’t be using.

          • The use of HFC for FOXTEL agreement goes way back to your hero Conroy, Optus and Telstra HFC was only going to be shutdown for broadband under Labor.

            oops eh?

          • Wow devoid you must not have taken your pills today so Conroy was going to pay to keep the HFC going for Foxtel lol

          • “oops eh?”

            Oops indeed…if we had left it that way, we would have a far better outlook economically.

          • Nice tap dance Rizz, (oh shit oh shit it was a Labor agreement), what is your point, try correct grammar to explain this time , you use your Jason K sock puppet when you need to jumble the grammar in your response because it’s getting awkward, that’s why Jason K is used a hell of lot.

            Only three years more to try and stay relevant, where is RIPP, on annual leave?

          • Lol Idiot what ever drugs you are on you should take double.

            Your the one doing a tap dance claiming Conroy setup the deal the pay for the on going running cost of the HFC. Much like the 0% hfc being used in the 2013 Turnbull pre election policy.

            But like you like to keep calling me by different names the best that suits you is idiot which I will now on refer to you is it best suits you.

          • jumble the grammar

            You don’t even understand the difference between grammar and punctuation, do you… :/

          • “Labor didn’t decide to drop HFC did they, your FOXTEL rant is irrelevant, it was before because FOXTEL is available on IPTV and Presto a FOXTEL company uses IPTV, so it is even more irrelevant now.”

            You even have your IPTV and Video-On-Demand Internet streaming technologies confused. They are two entirely different animals.

            All Foxtel PayTV (IPTV) channels are available on FTTH entertainment plans, regardless of your RSP, via a set-top plugged directlly into the Ethernet port in the back of your SmartTV.

            Video-On-Demand streaming services such as Presto & Netflix do not require a set-top box as they are delivered via the Internet protocol via the Ethernet port in your modem.

          • Yeah I know, but what has all of that ‘hey look what I can copy and paste about IPTV and VOD’ got do with Conroy and Labor intending to keep the Telstra HFC only for FOXTEL use in the Telstra/ NBN agreement of 2011?

          • Ok idiot
            Can you provide quote, link and page number where Conroy NBN was going to pay to keep the HFC running for Foxtel.

            Won’t expect a reply

          • @Reality

            You know I at least support the HFC part of the MtM, and even I have concerns about Foxtel using the HFC spectrum.

            Analysys Mason had this to say about it in their “Review of nbn’s network selection methodology and the efficiency and prudency of the design of its FTTN, FTTB and HFC networks” in April 2016:

            Future downlink plans will depend on the spectrum used for the Foxtel pay-TV service being made available

            https://goo.gl/TxINYj

            Hopefully they don’t screw up one of the better ideas (IMHO) in the MtM…

          • @Alternate-Reality,

            Labor weren’t going to use ANY money, let alone, taxpayer money to support Foxtel over HFC during their time in government & working on getting deals done between NBN CO & Telstra.

            Under the Labor deal, Telstra can keep their HFC & use it for thier $75 million dollar per year deal with Foxtel; But must decommision the HFC for broadband use.

            If Telstra are keeping the HFC & no NBN activity is put on it, then obviously Telstra pay for THEIR HFC maintenance when required.

            ie. Conroy, Labor, Real-NBN wouldn’t be paying to keep Telstras’ HFC alive for Foxtel.

            http://www.smh.com.au/business/telstra-keeps-cable-network-in-nbn-deal-20100620-ypd5.html

            Proved wrong, yet again Reality.

            CONVERSELY; Now the Liberals have access to Telstras HFC they do have to allow Foxtel, through Telstra, a nice free ride on it, even when upgraded at nbn’s expense.

            Article quote: “Telstra will continue to deliver pay TV through the HFC network after negotiations with NBN co.”

            http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/government-it/telstra-nbn-in-new-deal-to-speed-up-rollout-20141214-1273xm.html

            Article quote: “‘The intent with Telstra is that Foxtel will still be carried over [the existing HFC network],’ Morrow said today.”

            http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/553477/nbn_likely_share_hfc_foxtel/

            Also Telstra get money for maintaining & upgrading THEIR HFC network which Foxtel gets to run on.

            Nice economic management Liberals.. Bwahahaha! XD

            Reality FAIL.

            Later, RIPP :)

          • Reality

            You should really stop drinking your bong water

            Listen up LUDDITE

            Unlike you, I know the difference between IPTV and streaming video

            How many Internet Protocol Television (IPTV) broadcasters do you think I have access to on my Gigabit connection in San Francisco even without a set-top box?

            Netflix video streaming is a completely different kettle of fish!

        • Yeah I know, but what has all of that ‘hey look what I can copy and paste about IPTV and VOD’ got do with Conroy and Labor intending to keep the Telstra HFC only for FOXTEL use in the Telstra/ NBN agreement of 2011?

          You’re a knob!

          Foxtel have a commitment to Telstra’s HFC network which expires in 2020

          Meanwhile NBN Co will provide wholesale MULTICASTING on the FTTH network.
          http://www.nbnco.com.au/sell-nbn-services/products-services-pricing/product-roadmap.html

          • Foxtel have a commitment to Telstra’s HFC network which expires in 2020,

            … and?

            from your SMH link above.

            Foxtel pays Telstra about $75 million every year to use the HFC network,

  5. “FTTN models were based on a 15-20 year investment plan and a return on their FTTN investments can be reached within this timeframe”

    Which means whoever pays for the infrastructure needs a *retail* monopoly on it for 15-20 years to get their ROI. This is precisely why private industry was never going to build out the last mile if they had to truly share. And of course they would only cherry-pick then as well, to the detriment of the huge populations in regional and rural Australia.

    Even if legislation was created to enable these 15-20 year monopolies, we’d be simply re-creating a bunch of Telstras. Isn’t that a problem we’re trying to extricate ourselves from?

    I’m still unconvinced that private industry should be allowed to divvy up a natural monopoly. It creates huge companies with enourmous power who do everything they can to preserve their monopoly to the detriment of the consumer. Even if legislatively the new monopolists are forced to share, they will lobby those rights away over time. Just look at the US if you want to see how the last mile is captured by the infrastructure owners.

    All in all, a 15-20 ROI for a natural monopoly creates too much risk to allow private industry to control that destiny. Their interests and the interest of the country are just not that well aligned.

  6. The election has made the MTM farce unavoidable. So we now have to live with it.

    Yet Turnbull, and everyone with half a brain cell, have agreed that near universal fibre is the end objective.

    So where is the plan that delivers fibre?

    What Labor and the media (hah!) need to do now is turn up the heat and demand from Turnbull a plan for the transition from MTM to fibre.

    The When? the How? and the How Much?

    The Australian public deserve such answers before the next election. The MTM is a job half done (poorly).

    So Malcolm, how exactly are you getting us out of this mess that you created?

        • Labor beyond the 2M extra FTTP pork barrel didn’t have a upgrade plan either, they were doing to handball it all to Infrastructure Australia ‘sometime in their next term of Government’ , total unknown what the I.Australia report would have recommended.

          • “Labor beyond the 2M extra FTTP pork barrel didn’t have a upgrade plan either”
            That IS an upgrade plan you twit. Being that it hasn’t yet been carried out, it is still a plan.

            The Liberals’ plan was to demolish the NBN; that has been accomplished, they have no further plan.

            See how that works?

            “total unknown what the I.Australia report would have recommended.”
            In other words, basing major nationwide infrastructure projects on expert advice, rather than despotic agenda?

          • So you admit that the LNP have no real NBN plan, only the half baked farce that is the MTM.

            Labor had a plan to get millions more onto fibre. The LNP have no such plan, despite stating that it will need to be done.

          • That’s correct, there was no change to the Coalition MtM policy before the election, they could have matched the Labor political pork barrel announcement but they obviously felt they didn’t need to and stuck with their original plan.

            The Coalition and the NBN Co obviously decided that meeting the completion date and the funding requirements from CP 16 had priority over delaying completion and adding billions to the funding estimate.

            BTW you don’t get to define what a ‘real NBN plan’ is.

          • “they could have matched the Labor political pork barrel announcement”

            Huh? Do you even know what “pork barrel” means?
            Who do you think is receiving the benefits of this “pork barrel”?

            “they obviously felt they didn’t need to”

            They had no chance of walking back their massive mistakes, so they just stopped talking about it…

            “The Coalition and the NBN Co obviously decided that meeting the completion date and the funding requirements from CP 16 had priority”

            And if it didn’t, they would change it for the 4th time…
            Basically, they would keep inventing new “deadlines” and “goals” until they finally hit one.

            I’m still expecting Turnbull to spend $70 Billion on making sure everyone has a good dialup service…

          • I think you may be in the running for “The Most Pointless Post on the Internet” Alain!

            Thanks for your stunning insight of “Libs stick to Libs plan” ;o)

          • It’s a heads up, like 2013 the FTTP fans fantasise that Labor won and are absolutely baffled as to why the Coalition are not implementing Labor NBN policy, both after the 2013 and 2016 elections.

          • Lol idiot but they did follow labor FTTP for west tas with there FTTN as apparently sat was good enough for them and as you said about labor FTTP there isn’t enough room in the up to lol $56B for FTTP so there isn’t enough room for there FTTN either.

          • “meeting the completion date and the funding requirements from CP 16 had priority over delaying completion and adding billions to the funding estimate.”
            Because CP16 already added tens of billions to the funding estimate?

            “BTW you don’t get to define what a ‘real NBN plan’ is.”
            It probably has something to do with broadband available nationwide, which MTM does not aim to cover.

          • Chas,

            Who do you think is receiving the benefits of this “pork barrel”?

            Well putting aside the $29M for FTTP in three small rural towns in West Tassie, Queenstown, Rosebery and Zeehan , these electorate towns perhaps?

            “It’s an incredibly complex network … but off the top of my head towns including Lismore, Grafton, Byron Bay, Kingscliff, Jindabyne, Batemans Bay will receive fibre to the premises,” he said.

            http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/nbn/shorten-reaffirms-commitment-to-fibre-promising-fttp-for-two-million-more-homes-and-businesses/news-story/72c65ead07a6516098c47cff898bbd87

      • “Win the 2019 election with the same NBN policy perhaps?”

        The knuckle draggers are not going to last a year.

          • No idiot we get to watch abstain wreck on slow motion as we are still waiting for the faster rollout.

          • In less than two years S&P will downgrade the AAA credit rating the Liberals have been so desperate to destroy.

          • Thought the Liberals wanted to protect & keep our new lot of AAA credit ratings,(obtained under Labor)? …

            … It’s just their piss-poor economic management, lack of future vision & sub-standard infrastructure investment, that will have us risk losing them.

            Liberals FTF,(For-The-FAIL).

            Later, RIPP :)

          • Keep the fantasy alive, all the way through to 2019.

            It may well be a fantasy, but Malcolm sure as shit has his work cut out for him, both within and outside his party ;o)

          • S&P also stated that the government has been been placing the country under high foreign debit which reflects “the productive investment opportunities available in Australia”. However, they added that the borrowed money was not being put to good use.

            Going at this rate, there is a one in three chance the AAA rating will be downgraded within 2 years

          • Just as well the Coalition won the election then, Labor would have added to that debt by rolling out the most expensive NBN CPP fixed line fibre option FTTP to 2M extra residences.

          • 2 Million extra FTTP is a better investment over 2 Million FTT(node) even if it was slightly more expensive, or slightly delayed.

            Debt isn’t what fucks up your credit ratings, but piss-poor LNP style short-sighted dud infrastructure projects that do little, if anything, to boost a countries GDP & will struggle if they need investors due to god-awful low ROI.

            Hmmm, that sounds like the LNP mtm under new nbn management;

            A piss poor investment that will struggle to get anyone to invest due to practically non-existant ROI, that won’t do much for GDP either, as the rest of the world with Gigabit networks will take most of our, could-have-been, internet/ict business away,(quality startups included).

            Ps. You’re being super troll-worthy currently Reality; Because as god-awful dumb as you are, even you should’ve worked all the above out, or known it already.

            Later, RIPP.

          • “Just as well the Coalition won the election then, Labor would have added to that debt by rolling out the most expensive NBN CPP fixed line fibre option FTTP to 2M extra residences.”
            Not a bright one, huh? Labor were on track for their forecast of paying off debt, in part using their superior network involving lower installation and operating costs while providing the capacity for users to order higher end plans. After the abysmal performance of the Howard government, Labor well and truly earnt their 1st place OECD ranking and subsequent AAA credit ratings.

            The Liberals, on the other hand, have unsurprisingly performed abysmally, living up to their history of worse economic management with the previous term now on record as the worst economic leaders since Menzies (who founded the Liberal party).

          • Ripz,

            2 Million extra FTTP is a better investment over 2 Million FTT(node) even if it was slightly more expensive,

            1 billion more than the upper limit of the Coalition estimated funding range from CP 16 is not ‘slightly more expensive’.

          • 1/56,(billion) = 1.758% extra in initial build cost.

            It’s fucking tiny considering these are capital costs & the more nodes there are the greater the maintenance & operating costs will be for the network.

            Combine this with 2 million extra FTTP over FTT(node) improving the ROI, so you might get some investors to help you ACTUALLY COMPLETE THE NETWORK, it shows the initial extra billion to be fuckall… and ultimately cheaper than the mtm extra 2 million FTT(node) in the long run.

            Oh, and all the extra power required by those extra 2 million nodes isn’t coming from wholly eco-friendly power stations etc.. LNP, so eco friendly,(not gonna help our reduction in carbon emmissions at all).

            Sorry bub, you ain’t got a fucking clue.

            Ps. Re: Coalition UPPER LIMIT… lol.. until a year from now, when it becomes their LOWER LIMIT… Bwahahaha XD

            Later, RIPP.

          • It’s a retarded point any way you look at it – the supposed ‘low’ end of the CP16 estimates bring that up to 11/56 – 19.643%; still well in acceptable range for project blowout costs. Given this particular blowout would lead to substantial long term benefit, it is yet again an absolute no brainer. Unfortunately, some people somehow appear to have less than no brains.

  7. What is the LNP plan to get us to fttp Richard et al?

    Do you have any sources to backup your claims – like you seem to want everyone else to supply?

    Has another country (not a private a company!) a country done what we have on a national scale?

    What is the LNP plan now the nbn is running out of money and doesn’t provide an roi?

    • I asked a similar thing on a different thread. Who was going to improve my 6 Mbps connection?

      I live within eyesight of the nearest exchange, in the CBD of a decent sized city, and was getting 6 Mbps. It wasnt competition that got me a better connection, it was Government intervention.

      So many complaints over the years, simply ignored. Best I got was that it couldnt be fixed without replacing the copper for the entire suburb, which wasnt going to happen to fix ONE connection.

      Happily I got 100/40 but it was no thanks to the incumbents. Competition failed, it amazes me that people think it wont fail again. These businesses dont make profits by rolling out wholesale infrastructure now, they make money by spending as little as possible.

      So why the hell would any of them commit to tens of billions to overbuild the NBN?

  8. Been away for a few days…

    Wow…very sad to return to find Renai and Delimiter going, again… :(

    But looking at the idiocy above from the two usual suspects, Dick and the lap dog alain (Reality, lol)… I won’t be sad to see the end of such fucking idiot hypocritical, contradictory, completely uneducated, moronically “dishonest” comments, coming from our two unashamed, disgraceful political sheep on their blind crusade…

    You’re “both most” welcome

  9. Thus it begins.

    The lies to sell the fiction that only profit seeking private capital corporations can provide a first class service at the lowest possible cost. The very same private capital corporations legal mantra is that all laws are for the little people only.

    In the real world it is poorest quality of service at the highest possible cost the market will sustain, according to “Choice”. Even Telstra’s cheapest over subscribed service reseller, is still dearer than the number two telco in Oz. Telstra knows its customer service and contract misinformation selling agents are so poor. Should the corporation offer cash back contract exit free customer satisfaction clauses. The majority of customers would abandon the sinking ship called Telstra in an instant. lol

    Ah the same old, same old tired dogmatic repeat the same lie often to make us believe it is the truth.

    On one hand it claims government monopoly services cannot provide the level of services supplied by private capital based corporations.

    Private capital limited ownership corporations on the other hand are only in it driven by the pure greed of profits first customers are always the last in the queue. All the while, flogging the very tired well used headless legless horse hockey poop doubt propaganda in the “Hill & Knowlton” style. One that tells us the fiction that government services are bad corporate services are the best in the world bar none.

    Were this to be true, both the ACCC and the TIO regulators would be in the unemployment queue. Reality in the real world is both organizations barely have adequate staff to investigate all cases thoroughly and merely represent the tip of the true iceberg of customer discontent.

    All business surveys reflect that one in three customers are not happy with the rip me off style mantra espoused by all private capital based profits first customer is always last mediocre service levels.

    As David Thodey once promised in 2009; “A new Telstra” which will be much more responsive to its customers in a bid to improve the telco’s corporate reputation, stating that the new mantra at Telstra would be “customer service, customer service, customer service””. This came after the sacking of the previous CEO. The former sacked CEO of 2009 , got the last laugh on the sacking. Simply by locking Telstra into employing mostly clueless “Peter Principle” adherent US executives. All of whom including the last acquisition in May, 2016, were literally one step away from the unemployment office in their last resume job.

    Fast forward to 2016, all Telstra offers is a never ending string of outages all over Oz, for all their paying customers and business users. That is the inconvenient truth, in the reality of the real world. Although the local “Hill&Knowlton” shill infestation, will tell us complete fact free fiction pointing in the opposite direction to the real truth in the real world.

    But then again, who indeed would want to seek work in a three and half star company called Telstra. One that is well populated with adherents of the “Peter Principle”, from the sub basement management all the way up to the top floor.

    The old saying to deflect thorough behind the scenes scrutiny, one claims one direction of travel, whilst simultaneously doing a complete one eighty in the opposite direction. As is seen in the latest string of Andy P’s approved fiction and amusing divorced from reality Telstra’s latest false flag advertising, now gracing the Oz air waves.

    Sadly Telstra, whilst it signed a replace repair and maintenance of NBN copper rotten spaghetti network in December 2015. Reality in the real world, try eight or more weeks to attempt to repair a cut piece of NBN spaghetti, recently purchased from the same company.

    Telstra is a very well known company that receives a large number of customer complaints in the TIO and elsewhere for the corporations zero maintenance rotten dilapidated copper spaghetti network.

    Can Telstra the zero maintenance company repair a rivals network, it has only been sub contracted to do. One needs a very big stick to hit Telstra with indeed to generate appropriate corrective action.

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!

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