Truth: Turnbull’s NBN mess cost him dearly in the Election

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76 COMMENTS

  1. And I think it would be safe to say that he knew it was an albatross around his neck. There was virtually no reference to the MTM during most of the extended campaign, even avoiding mention of it when trying to sell his innovation theme.

    • I’d suggest that it was an easy issue to create a noise because few people understand the technology. A few examples.

      Most complaining about satellite / wireless in regional areas haven’t been impacted by change to MTM. Satellites launched on time and rollout is pretty much on schedule. Wireless coverage has been extended to reduce by 40,000 premises covered by satellite.

      Buffering issues were not caused by FTTN. Secondly for most people even if Labor’s original plan had been followed they wouldn’t have been connected to the NBN.

      Drop in speed rankings is directly linked to Labor choosing to implement speed tiers and 84% of Australians not being prepared to pay for faster speeds. There is little support for removing speed tiers so MTM could easily be argued to have little impact on this.

      Australians are receiving the NBN they deserve. Most will have the 25Mbps they are prepared to pay for. A few rich people will be able to pay for faster speeds and a few selfish people will suffer slower speeds on FTTN, but then with the price rises most who cannot afford FoD will find themselves falling behind..

      • Mathew can you remind us how much ADSL was when it first came out how many few rich people could afford it

        • My first ADSL service was connected in Feb-2002. I paid $79.95 for 512Kbps with 3GB quota. The cheapest plan was $49.95. About double the price of the dial-up account I was using ($300/year) but then you have to add phone calls to the cost of the dial-up account so the difference was much smaller.

        • @Chas @Mathew ..etc., :P

          No shaping & poor early warnings, if any, translated to an easy $150/GB overage.

          So many people were caught out with this.

          I stayed on unlimited dialup, with no-timeout connections doing like 1-1.5GB a month,($40/month Dingoblue,[year 2000-ish]);

          I wasn’t gonna risk what I might do with heaps more speed at my lil’ fingies .. hehe :)

          No-hangups equaled no real spend on call cost & no annoying people phoning us too ;)

          I have real FTTP now,(street connected by mid 2012 btw.,[thanks Quigley]) & I save plenty on REAL NBN 50/20 plan costs & get heaps more speed,(up & down) compared to prior 11-12Mb/s ADSL 2+ I had before & more data quota, plus free voip,(pay only outgoing calls,[don’t make any real calls, so, YAYY]). No line-rental for a big win too :D

          BTW., if 50/20 plans are offered by your isp’s they’re generally only like $5-$10 per month more in cost than the 25Mb/s plans; You hardly need be rich Mathew.

          Later, RIPP :)

          • According to Australian Labor NBN Plan 50/20 is insufficient for the eHealth & eLearning benefits used to justify the NBN.

            Imagine how much more you could be dong with faster speeds.

          • Hi Mathew,

            An inconsistant unreliable FTTN connection listed as supposedly supporting 50/20 is not viable, sure.

            50/20 on NBN FTTP if setup correctly for eHealth could even be allowed to spike to Gb/s if the government & NBN desired it.

            The NBN FTTP inside house box, has 4 data ports, 1 can be for my 50/20 Mb/s residential connection, another for a dedicated Gb/s link to government services,(eHealth & eLearning initiatives etc.,) if required.

            BTW., I have a dual Gb wan router, so yes, if NBN put out such a service, I & others with equipment like mine, could access it straight away.

            Your post is therefore daft &/or deceptive; You don’t even post a link to your claim of FACT.

            Ps. Imagine how much less, I could be doing with an unreliable FTTN connection ;)

            Later, RIPP.

          • According to Australian Labor NBN Plan 50/20 is insufficient for the eHealth & eLearning benefits used to justify the NBN.

            And according to you, they don’t need it….aren’t you in favour of everyone having 12Mbps Mat? Most of you previous posts seem to indicate that…

      • “Buffering issues were not caused by FTTN. Secondly for most people even if Labor’s original plan had been followed they wouldn’t have been connected to the NBN.”
        Both lies.

        “Drop in speed rankings is directly linked to Labor choosing to implement speed tiers and 84% of Australians not being prepared to pay for faster speeds.”
        It was timed perfectly with the Liberals’ 2.5 halt of progression, but no it must have something to do with the 6 years before that, despite Australia shooting up in that period.

  2. Truth: Turnbull’s NBN mess cost him dearly in the Election

    More than he would admit.

  3. They don’t call it Mal Turnbulls Mess (MTM) for nothing. He deserves everything he gets, probably alot of stuff he wont get too, some jail time (atleast) for treason would be a good starting point for him.

  4. Great article Renai, I think you nailed it.

    Just to add to your comments around Medicare; Peter Martin has a great article today on why the MediScare campaign worked. Essentially Australians didn’t believe Turnbull because of its existing attacks on health funding and Medicare in general.

    It has a lot of parallels with the libs undermining the NBN for partisan ideological reasons.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016-opinion/election-2016-mediscare-campaign-worked-because-voters-were-already-scared-20160703-gpxbhw.html

  5. Under LNP, we’ve fallen from 30th to 60th in the world in just 3yrs. Satellite IS NOT a suitable replacement for NBN and the satellites were obsolete prior to being launched. When fully subscribed, satellite speeds will be only just above dial up. Satellites suffer latency issues which increase with cloud cover & storm activity. Eventually the signal is unable to penetrate cloud & rain and you have no service.

  6. Interesting Tasmania was apparently lost to the Coalition because the NBN was a key factor which from reading the analysis of the three seat Liberal Tassie loss the NBN didn’t rate a mention outside Delimiter.

    With the election count maybe leading to a hung Parliament with a equal number of Lower House seats each on a national level the ‘NBN influence’ was 50-50 on a policy basis.

    But par for the course as predicted before the election, when Labor wins or retains a seat the NBN is a factor, if the Coalition retain a seat the NBN has nothing to do with it.

    • Reals .. Can you have a go at providing a counter-analysis as to the various reasons why the Libs were kicked in the nuts by Tasmanians? A chart might help.

      • Seriously though I’m genuinely curious to hear well reasoned arguments from all. I believe that the change in direction for NBN significantly impacted Tassies and the ex-local members failed to adequately defend the new position…. Surely that had some influence on voting intentions? Or were the Libs just generally shit?

    • Let’s do some more analysis, the seat of New England was retained by the Nationals Joyce up against a strong campaign by Independent Windsor.

      Windsor is a strong and vocal supporter of the Labor FTTP and he with others helped Gillard over the line in 2010 with the well used by FTTP fans slogan “‘Do it once, do it right, do it with fibre” it was used in this campaign as well.

      if Windsor had won New England the FTTP fans would crow loud and often it was because New England wanted FTTP, and ringing endorsement of his FTTP support generally.

      He didn’t win, so say nothing, and just look at seats Labor won.

      • Understand your point but why do you think they lost 3 seats in Tassie? Did the NBN play any part, large or small?

        • My point is it wouldn’t be a single issue determining the outcome (like any seat in Australia) so why just look at Tasmania because it is now all Labor except for the Independents Wilkies seat Denison which he retained easily and Franklin was already safe Labor and was retained.

          To assert the NBN was a major factor in losing Bass, Braddon and Lyons which were marginal Coalition seats anyway is pure conjecture.

          • Let’s wait and see what Peter Reith and/or the Coalition says, eh alain…?

            Oh no, what’s the point…. even if he/they say comms clearly was a factor as they did in 2010, you’ll find one word in their analysis such as, may, or might, to idiotically argue against the clear intent of the analysis, for no other apparent reason than to be an argumentative, childish, obsequious, dick…

            Apology accepted.

          • Reality,

            Liberals played word games last election tricking many in the state of Tasmania into thinking all the areas that weren’t to get satellite or wireless due to remote locations etc., would still recieve the proper FTTP connections.

            You can bet on people being pissed off when they realised how they were played out;

            Hell, even Renai fell for it;

            When people told Renai Turnbull & his ilk were being crafty with wordplay Renai said we got an answer & there clearly was not going to be any changes to Tassies prior rollout design, so FTTP was safe…

            Turns out like many of us suspected, Turnbull was being deceitful to get the Liberals elected.

            Once the FTTP nbn lie from the Liberals was shown for what it was, Tasmanians were just waiting to kick the Liberals out;

            Even lying on phone polls re. who they’d vote for when asked, hoping to prompt a sooner election.

            Later, RIPP.

          • My point is it wouldn’t be a single issue determining the outcome

            Of course not, but it is a great bellwether of how their incompetence and mismanagement got them so far off course and off side with the public.

            Take these two facts:

            85 percent of voters support the NBNhttp://www.zdnet.com/article/85-percent-of-voters-support-the-nbn/

            And

            “Yet, NBN hardly mentioned by Coalition in campaign!” said Internet Australia chief executive Laurie Patton on Twitter yesterday.

            This just highlights their incompetence. Instead of taking something popular amongst 85% of the voters and running with it, they hunkered down and went “small target”.

            The NBN didn’t cause them to lose the election, but it is sure as shit part of it, as Renai said:

            Malcolm Turnbull may shortly lose the Prime Ministership; and the best case scenario for the Member for Wentworth is another three years of political chaos. This won’t be entirely because of Turnbull’s appalling decisions on the NBN. But there is no doubt that the NBN factor has played a strong role.

          • The NBN didn’t cause them to lose the election, but it is sure as shit part of it, as Renai said:

            The Coalition have not lost the election yet, oh and Labor has not won it either.

      • Most National party win seats will be full of slow backward hicks, or rusted-ons.

        An easy win for Joyce, over a calm & rational Windor who would actually TRULY seek to make the electorate prosper more,(no party line toer) proves my point above.

        This Joyce win says nothing about the NBN,(proper FTTP version) just about the electorate having way to many thick people in it; Nothing more, nothing less.

        Later, RIPP :)

        • Thanks for proving the point, when Labor win a seat it’s about the NBN, when the Coalition win a seat it has nothing to do with the existing MtM NBN, the reason? the electorate in a Coalition win has too many ‘thick people’ in it, wow brilliant logic.

          Spouting BS as usual Rizz.

          • Dear Lack-of,

            I’m not Rizz dipshit, try a pvt msg to RIPP on whirlpool, member since 2002 & I’ll msg you back with “Hi dipshit” to prove it, if need be.

            I also never said Coalition, I said Nationals,.. as if you’ve been understanding what’s been going on in parliment for years now, you’d know the Nationals are just the Liberals’ bitches & roll-over whenever told to do so.. Case in point, it was the Nationals way-back-when that liked the idea of FTTP, that changed when Libs said; “Rollover, good doggy”.

            Labor in their times in power have sought to do more & done more good, in general, for rural people than the Nationals have,(directly, or indirectly via Nationwide projects/policy);

            Hence people that vote for the Nationals, especially in a Joyce vs Windsor vote, are quite obviously a bit slow/thick, or seriously rusted-on National supporters.

            Just for you, as Renai, or Rizz might say;

            Your comments are invalid…. YOU’RE WELCOME.

            LOOL XD

            Later, RIPP.

          • Does that mean I have to call him dipshit too?

            Or would that just confuse him even more so?

            I don’t mind ;)

          • I don’t mind calling him dipshit, it does seem rather apt.

            And don’t let him move the goal post on you RIPP (it’s his favorite tactic), that’s all his pointless drivel about New England proving the NBN wasn’t a factor in the election is after all…

          • @Rizz, I did borrow one of your lines, so sure, you can call him dipshit, with my blessings :) …….Also, anyone else that wants too, can also ..lol XD

            @Tinman, having truly lurked here for a few years now, I know how these guys seek to play dirty, changing goalposts & deliberately mis-quoting facts, figures & people; But I appreciate the message of support & helpfulness :)

            Later, RIPP.

          • I’m not Rizz dipshit

            Don’t mind him RIPP. The fact that your display name has two letters that are the same probably confused him. Same mentality that causes him to think FttN is just as good as FttP for current and future needs.

          • @HC – lol XD

            Btw; Some people are born dumb, some people become dumber & some seem to be seeking to perfect it, via regular practice.

            I think we all know, someone, that might’ve managed to qualify for all 3 of the above.

            Later, RIPP :)

          • “it was the Nationals way-back-when that liked the idea of FTTP,”
            It was the Nationals that dubbed FTTN ‘fraudband’.

          • It was the Nationals that dubbed FTTN ‘fraudband’.

            Yep, before the LPA gave them a slap and put them back into line.

          • Funny how New England and many other areas of Australia that retained a Liberal or National seat if you believe NBN was a decider policy endorsed ‘fraudband’.

            I suppose that’s because half of Australia is ‘thick’ the other half is not.

            Life is so simple for FTTN haters, it has to be.

            ROFL

          • @Lack-of-REALITY,

            No-one said FTTP was the sole deciding policy.

            Though a pretty dam big one in Tassie I’d suggest.

            Also with Labor lamenting if you’re getting, or have FTTN already, that you’d be stuck on it for a while, then FTTP would become a non-issue for poor bastards in those situations, or electorates in general.

            Oh & yeh… half of Australia,(as a people) are pretty thick, clearly;

            Liberals lied about everything at the last election & only changed the face of the party to a smoother salesman/lier, but seeking to run with the same ideals,(shitty ones for non-rich, non-big-companies,[moneywise]) & 2-party prefferred vote is/was around 50/50 ;)

            Thanks for playing, dipshit ..lol XD

            Later, RIPP.

          • Funny how New England and many other areas of Australia that retained a Liberal or National seat if you believe NBN was a decider policy endorsed ‘fraudband’.

            Yes, it’s all about New England, right Alian? Half of which already has FttP ;o)

            I see you are still avoiding the Tssy result, where everyone in Bass were supposed to get satellite, and love it lol

            I suppose that’s because half of Australia is ‘thick’ the other half is not.

            Thats pretty insulting of your fellow Australians, but I guess you LPA types don’t really care…being “born to rule” and all that…

            Life is so simple for FTTN haters, it has to be.

            Indeed. While Malcolm’s yearning for steam trains is very romantic and all, they aren’t something the modern economy can run on. Simplez.

            ROFL

            Indeed ;o)

            Classic;-)

          • No-one said FTTP was the sole deciding policy.

            He obviously didn’t read the article :o)

            But then, reading doesn’t seems to be his strong suit.

  7. Once again to return to the box (yes, the other one) last night…

    Paul Murray had an interesting take.

    Basically he suggested the job that neither Turnbull or Shorten really want now… is PM, under these circumstances. Having to perhaps form a minority government/hung parliament gives the opposition (think TA following 2010) all the ammo to finger point and suggest he could do it better, when the government is forever hamstrung…

    And it’s an interesting point IMO…

    So how does this fit in with the topic? Speaking of Mals mess, we now have a situation where MT called a DD… trying to manipulate and sure up his own position and lessen the powers of the unaligned in parliament, which has backfired badly.

    So badly to the degree where he almost (and may still, but unlikely) lose power, but regardless, there is now so much uncertainty that we may lose our AAA rating, markets are reacting accordingly and Aussies are becoming more disillusioned with the 2 party political BS more than ever…

    Leaving the door open for more Xenophons, Hansons etc…

    *golfclap*

      • Don’t worry about it Labor has it covered, 2M extra residences on FTTP will buffer us against any economic problems, FTTP the penicillin of the future.

        LOL

        • Don’t worry about it Labor has it covered

          So you’re predicting a Labor win now? Is that because of their all fibre policy? LOL

          I think you’re dreaming son ;o)

          • The Coalition MtM policy is well established now, even Labor thought two major components HFC and FTTB in high density population areas was worth keeping.

            2M more on FTTP is just carrot and stick stuff, if Labor get in I bet they wind down the FTTN rollout slowly so they can review the FTTP promise and then cut that back.

            A Labor NBN Co has plenty of experience knowing how to cut back FTTP targets.

          • The coalition NBN has plenty of experience knowing how to cut back targets

            There fixed it for you

          • 2M more on FTTP is just carrot and stick stuff, if Labor get in I bet they wind down the FTTN rollout slowly so they can review the FTTP promise and then cut that back.

            It’s looking like the Coalition will be returned. You can go back into hibernation for three years now ;o)

          • So what are you and your like minded band of brothers going to do, carry the hate and abuse through until 2019?

            The 2013 and most likely the 2016 Labor FTTP fantasy is fading into history.

          • So what are you and your like minded band of brothers going to do, carry the hate and abuse through until 2019?

            And well beyond, younger generations should be made aware of the sheer incompetence and misjudgment that reigned supreme once they switched over to “MtM”, and the extremely short-sighted luddite views that cause them ;o)

          • +1 Tinman

            As said on Game of Thrones;
            “The north remembers.”

            I also wouldn’t mind punching a few of the younger generation that were eligible to vote, but couldn’t be arsed to register, IN THE FACE!

            Bet they’ll be some of the biggest wingers, no matter what transpires in the new government, but they never voted.

            Later, RIPP.

          • RIPP, one girl I came across at the shops said she was just going to vote for whoever her mother told her to vote for, I was disgusted to say the least. 😬

          • When our education system doesn’t cover it, the fall back for most kids are mum and dad. They really need to add political science to the curriculum, even if it’s just to teach people how our own system works.

          • And well beyond, younger generations should be made aware of the sheer incompetence and misjudgment that reigned supreme once they switched over to “MtM”, and the extremely short-sighted luddite views that cause them ;o)

            Looks like you have inadvertently discovered yet another irrational position the CFKD team hold Tinman. That they believe the argument against FttP diminishes with time is certainly telling more so that they believe it does simply because of backwards coalition clown vandalism. Perfect example of short-sighted luddite views.

          • Yet if Labor had only just got over the line you all would have been shouting loud and often the Labor NBN policy was a major factor.

            Turnbull may require cross bench support to get them into Government but unlike 2010 when Oakshott and Windsor said the Labor NBN FTTP model was a key reason amongst others for them backing Gillard, I have not heard that the NBN is decider that will sway the existing cross benchers.

            The reason being I suspect is that when it comes to the NBN MtM model in 2016 there is not much difference between Labor and the Coalition policy anyway, unlike 2010.

          • Your comment is invalid.

            I go so far as to say it’s not just invalid, it’s ignorant, short sighted and biased.

            He only hold these views for the political party he adores and I’ve never actually seen him make a statement on his own that doesn’t back them, while we have often stated where we think the previous government went wrong (and it sure as shit wasn’t picking FttP).

            You’re worse than a shill Alain (who at least does it for money), you’re a LPA fanboi ;o)

          • lol, the poor ol’ 2013 Quigley/Conroy FTTP fan boys with great chips on their shoulders staring down the barrel of three more years of dishing out hate and abuse.

            The nation as a whole has accepted the MtM NBN long ago, time to move on, swimming against the tide for three years and now most likely for another three years will get you nowhere.

    • Aussies are becoming more disillusioned with the 2 party political BS more than ever…

      Indeed.

      Leaving the door open for more Xenophons, Hansons etc…

      I don’t necessarily think this is a bad thing, the media like to paint this as something negative (chaos etc) but so long as it gives Labor and the coalition clowns a cause for concern I think there is some value in having more voices heard in parliament even those I disagree with. At the very least it’ll provide an example of how democracy is suppose to work rather than how we (the voters) have been conditioned to think the only option is installing virtual dictatorships every three years. For too long they have been too comfortable, taking their positions for granted, taking voters for granted. They don’t care if they lose because they know they’ll get in again when the other side fucks up.

      So then you have Hanson and it’s easy to see why she has become popular again, clearly a response to the unreasonableness coming from the left wing nutjob thought police PC sjw crowd (same reason Trump is popular) If people (and politicians) were not so obsessed with appeasing them she would not exist.

      • Exactly HC. Two Party isn’t something the founders of democracy, or even Federation, really saw coming. Some of our best laws have come from governments like Gillard’s, where ideas were debated, and the better ideas won out and got passed by both houses.

        Some of the worst laws were from governments like Howard’s, where he controlled both houses (workchoices for example, where he tanked Australia’s productivity).

        To this day I regret being one of those that voted that little ratfuck in…

        • Same here, I was dumb enuf at the time to think liberal actually meant progressive. Maybe I should sue the liberal party for false and misleading advertising! 😜

  8. Seems I have to pay $5000 to get the FTTP for my small business. When Ziggy was head of Telstra, his policies meant that I only got two wires into my house in 2000. Telstra installer told the bad news, no ADSL and that I was still paying for four wires, but halving the copper made the bottom line of the Telstra sale look better – at my and my neighbour’s cost. This was only just the beginning of my nightmare. Stuck on dial-up I then had to seek out very expensive ‘UnWired’ solution. Finally, Telstra tells me they have come up with ADSL-1, but at this time everybody else is getting the superior ADSL-2+. Great, right? Wrong. The inferior ADSL-1 costs me $80 for 30GB and those on TPG etc was paying less that $30 for superior ADSL-2+, a true double-whammy. Paying more for less, for an inferior service. But Telstra had a monopoly on my phone, going to iiNet, iPrimus or TPG, all they could say was “sorry” and not their problem. Now finally 2007-8 and Labor announces the NBN and FTTP and I go “yippie yay” – I can see the light of the end of the tunnel (even if still years away) and get away from Telstra’s noose at last. WRONG! Now Ziggy and his ex-Telstra mates are in charge of the NBN and the copper that they have hung around my neck for 16 years remains. Thanks again, Ziggy. You have already cost me thousands of dollars and now I have to pay out thousands more. Now what, a knock on my door from the NBN by uniformed Police? We now live in Putin’s Australia? When King Charles I invaded Westminster Parliament and demanded that five be handed over to him for arrest – that led to the English Civil War, what thin ice are we skating upon now. BTW, to set the record straight, I have never voted Labor, Liberal, Green or any other party you can name. I believe in the Rule of Law and Respect for Authority – but it’s getting harder all the time. So no, this is NOT political, but is it personal? What do you think?

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