Labor to take NBN beyond the node, but ignores HFC

167

news Opposition Leader Bill Shorten today said Labor wasn’t satisfied with the Coalition’s Fibre to the Node technology for the National Broadband Network, but stopped short of commenting on Labor’s plans for the up to a third of the NBN that will be covered by HFC cable technology.

The NBN as originally envisaged by Labor featured a near-universal Fibre to the Premises rollout, in which fibre would be delivered all the way from telephone exchanges to Australians’ homes and business premises.

However, the Coalition has since modified the rollout, incorporating the legacy copper and HFC cable networks owned by Telstra and Optus, in an approximately three way network rollout split between FTTP, Fibre to the Node and upgraded HFC cable networks.

Labor has not yet revealed its election NBN policy, but it is believed the party is likely to retain the HFC cable component of the Coalition’s MTM version of the NBN, as well as Fibre to the Basement of apartment buildings. However, it is believed that Labor is likely to shift to a Fibre to the Distribution Point model for much of the remainder of the network build.

FTTdp essentially brings fibre to the gate outside premises, delivering most of the speed advantages of FTTP.

In response to a caller on ABC Radio today, Opposition Leader Bill Shorten appeared to confirm this plan.

“What we will do is have a greater proportion of fibre in our solution on NBN,” Shorten told the caller.

“We are not going to rip up everything the Liberals have done because I think something that drives people crazy is if I came in here and said that everything that happened is just all bad and we will start again at scratch, that doesn’t help anyone.”

“But what I can promise, Eugene, is there will be much more fibre in our NBN propositions and we are not satisfied that just sending it to the node is a sufficient solution. We will have more to say in the next couple of weeks.”

Shorten also attacked Malcolm Turnbull for his stewardship of the NBN as Communications Minister.

“Mr Turnbull promised in 2013 that he could build it for $29 billion. Now it’s $56 billion and the price is rising … it’s double — $27 billion so far,” said Shorten. “Of course NBN and Mr Turnbull never like hearing the bad news as we’ve seen.”

The ABC host, Steve Austin, said it was “hardly just their fault”, referring to the NBN company and Turnbull, alleging that Labor didn’t put together a business plan when the NBN was started.

“Steve, at what point does the Liberal Party take responsibility for the last 1,000 days?” Shorten fired back.

“I’m sorry but for the last 1,000 days mate, they’ve been in charge. And it would be a terrible mistake having looked at their last 1,000 days to give them another 1,000 days. Did you know Australia has dropped from being ranked 30th in the world for internet speed to 60th?”

Shorten said his criticism of the NBN under the Coalition was that its version of the NBN relied “excessively” on copper technology.

“We will announce our policy before the election but I can say that is the critique we have of Mr Turnbull’s maladministration of NBN,” Shorten said.

The Coalition has given a number of signals over the past several weeks that it does not intend to change its NBN policy for the election, while the Greens have not yet signalled whether they will release a new NBN policy for the poll.

opinion/analysis
I think it’s pretty clear at this point what Labor are going to announce as their NBN policy for the election.

They’ll keep rolling out FTTP where it is being rolled out, particularly in new estates.

They’ll dump FTTN and replace it with FTTdp where they can.

They’ll keep the HFC cable plans.

They’ll keep the FTTB plans.

And of course they’ll keep the satellite and wireless plans.

Out of all of this, the area that I have the most problem with — and the area that Shorten and others in Labor keep on ignoring — is the HFC. In my opinion the HFC cable networks are as large a problem as FTTN over the long term.

But nobody is talking about them. As far as our political system goes, HFC cable might as well not exist. All anybody thinks about is FTTN — they ignore the fact that a third of the MTM NBN is slated to be HFC, which has many of the same long-term upgradability problems, and many other issues in the short-term (such as slow upload speeds).

Image credit: Parliamentary Broadcasting

167 COMMENTS

  1. HFC which is basically entire of Sydney ie priviledged million dollar areas. Left to waste.

    HFC should have been decommissioned, never bought back and a wasteful faulty piece of crap. It goes down for me for days every few months.

    An NBN they paid billions for should never go down as much as faulty copper does and will stuff business and the economy up. HFC doesn’t even have a business SLA.

    That is fine Ive been holding out for Labor to get back in so they can continue FTTP back on the Central coast ?

    • Upload speed says: “….BUILD IT ONCE!! ,… build it once,… Build it once,.. Build It Once,… build IT ONCE…”

      (People actually died for this country..)

      • “(People actually died for this country..)”

        Apparently some are growing on tree’s too :(

    • I know how bad the state of it is, my cousins have had it since installed and about 8 years and when they were young adults themselves they promptly got new phone lines so they could get ADSL2 and leave their parents on the HFC because they preferred a solid sub 20mbps connection on ADSL to the often promised but never deliver 100 on the HFC.

      Is this just a case of a cruddy build and provision though? i.e. have their historically been really robust HFC networks delivering 100mbps most of the day to users in neighbourhoods in the ballpark density of our capital cities or alternatively, are there currently modern cities around the globe with great speed outcomes on DOCSIS 3.1 or any standard predating that ?

      if it works elsewhere and most of the infrastructure is there I say go with it considering the assets were paid for,make the most of it and come back to them in the last phase of FTTP after FTTdp has been replaced in 15 years

      • “if it works elsewhere and most of the (working) infrastructure is there” (my addition)

        I just hope if either of these things is NOT there, we WON’T go with it.

  2. The other thing I think Labor could do to improve things (for FTTN) is bring in an NTD type device, that way all the customer has to do is plug in a router and be done with it.

    It would also allow for remote testing to make sure from the node to the premises the copper is working as it should be without having to send people out, and also meaning people don’t have to ‘hope’ that their modem/router they have will work with FTTN.

    • Yep. Not providing a managed modem when they do the same for every other NTD is just laziness. And all of NBN’s advertising material still says the equipment they install just needs a router attached, so billions of dollars into FTTN and they can’t even make sure the advertising isn’t misleading and deceptive. Insane.

      • I don’t have much experience with Fibre, but I believe doesn’t suffer from any of the issues DSL does: SnR, Line Attenuation, Sync Speed, etc; it’s all constant.
        If that’s a given, I’d prefer my own VDSL modem’s at home and my clients so I can monitor those stats so if there is issues, I can quickly check them (and I graph them too), rather than a black box that I’m not allowed to touch, where you’d need to get your RSP to check the stats at both ends. No thanks.

    • wonder what proportion of Aussies on the top 5 ISPs use modems provided by the ISPs, I say this because I switched recently and the modem/router (ADSL2 connection) was free so I thought why not as my equipment was all old. the device provided has been excellent and supports VDSL out of the box

  3. The problem with HFC is that nbn™ have already bought it. To not use it now would be throwing money down the drain.

    It made sense to replace it with FttP three years ago, when it was still owned by Telstra & Optus, but it’s a sunk cost now, and nbn™ is in the position of many HFC operators around the world of trying to make money with it. If they don’t, it’ll be a multi-billion-dollar write-down for a company that doesn’t yet have enough revenue to cover the rollout costs. If they slap an nbn™ sticker on it and call it good (with ‘future upgrades’) they can at least significantly boost their revenue. I would hope that would include hefty access charges for Foxtel, but who knows what the terms of that deal were…

    Telstra’s revenue from HFC over the last 20 years would have already paid for it several times over, so they’re laughing all the way to the bank, but nbn™ (and consequently, us taxpayers) are now stuck with it.

    While it’s no FttP or FttDp, you can at least get decent speeds on HFC most of the time.

    • Concentrating on sunk costs can result in a missed opportunity. Sunk costs is money that is gone, is never coming back and shouldn’t factor into any capital budgeting decisions.

      The cost analysis whether to keep HFC should be based on the costs to upgrade the HFC network, the operational and maintenance costs of the HFC network, the future cost to upgrade to FTTP and the anticipated revenue streams from HFC vs the cost to breach the contracts with Telstra and Optus, the cost to construct FTTP now, the operational costs of FTTP and anticipated revenue under FTTP. The previous sunk costs don’t factor into it at all as they can’t be recovered.

  4. “In my opinion the HFC cable networks are as large a problem as FTTN over the long term.”

    Given that nbn are now deigned to keep HFC running and maintained until Foxtel says it’s OK to switch it off – which will be never, or 10 years (whichever comes first), it only makes sense to focus on the other 66% of the nation first. Given that if Labor somehow manage to scrape in they probably won’t scrape in for 2 terms and the Coalition will just fuck everything the next chance they get, it’ll be close to 10 years before the HFC areas could even be considered as a serious prospect for upgrade anyway.

    • I have less problems with HFC than I do with FttN. The upgrade of FttN to FttP is a cost burden thats going to happen no matter what, and pretty much every professional opinion recognises that.

      With HFC, its going to need to be replaced anyway, but for me there IS a practical reason for considering it. At the least it gives better speeds than ADSL2, which at the end of the day is what needs to be replaced.

      HFC is one part of the MTM option I think works out mid and long term, simply because it lets you delay 30% of the rollout and get the other worse off areas done first. After that, address that elephant.

      • My biggest issue with HFC is the in-fill which seems like it will mainly be done with FTTN. This just shows how bloody expensive HFC really is compared to other technologies.

        My area is 98% HFC except for the bit I live in which was ignored by Optus due to being underground PSTN & Power. Under MtM we’d prolly get a great big ugly node plonked next to our lone T$ PSTN pillar.

        It’s just a bad joke, build the NBN with GPON so everyone has the same available services and service quality! Aussie Business in particular have never been connected to HFC in the past and I cant see it happening in the future either!

        • Under MtM we’d prolly get a great big ugly node plonked next to our lone T$ PSTN pillar.

          Sorry man, but if you want decent internet speeds with FttN, you better hope they put that big ugly node right next to your house…

          • The pillar is about 250m away from our house so the speeds would likely be ok for us, I’d still rather HFC tho if we did get MtM’d.

          • Don’t forget Derek O you need to add a average 350m on top of that for the node just depend where they can power it

          • very true Jason, there’s a very very small above ground power junction (cant even find one in google) not far away from the T$ pillar.

          • To achieve 100Mbps the copper runs to customer must be <400m.

            If they were doing FttC, then yes, they’d be less than 400m, but it isn’t, Malcolm has said the loops will be up to 1Km

          • Well then they will have to shorten the copper by adding additional cabinets otherwise NBN Co would be falsely claiming 100Mbps

            This is when the fun will start! xD

          • The min 25Mbps – 100Mbps they claim before the election isn’t around anymore. Bascily they guarantee speeds to the ISP not the the customer.

          • “Malcolm has said the loops will be up to 1Km”

            What in the hell would he know?

            I suppose Malcolm has discussed this with Alcatel-Lucent? loool

            But I doubt it as Alcatel-Lucent have tested this and they have their benchmarks!

          • Jason

            The 100Mbps speed limit has nothing to do with politics. It’s purely a technical issue.

            100Mbps is the maximum speed achievable if the length of the copper segment is <400m copper using Vectored VSDL2. Speed drop fairly quickly on lengths great then 400m.

            The ISPs will soon be ripping off customers when the co-existence period has expired, by trying to sell them 100Mbps plans when their network is not capable of delivering.

          • What in the hell would he know?

            3 tenths of fuck-all, but he’s running the show unfortunately.

          • The 100Mbps speed limit has nothing to do with politics. It’s purely a technical issue.

            Ed Zachary

            Good to have you around Snowy, so many (well….three) people just don’t “get it”.

        • Derek O,

          My biggest issue with HFC is the in-fill which seems like it will mainly be done with FTTN. This just shows how bloody expensive HFC really is compared to other technologies.

          New HFC would be expensive compared with FTTN for a large area, you have copper to the house not HFC in the street, seems logical you would be targeted for FTTN, but it’s early days, I don’t think the NBN Co have made any firm decisions about HFC in-fill areas, and it would be on a case by case basis.

          If it was just a low number of residences in a small HFC area pocket for example, extending the HFC to those few residences may still be more cost effective than FTTN.

        • @ Reality.

          The smh article says in part:

          “or potentially even some fixed-wireless applications,” he says.

          “Malcolm [Turnbull] has never told me or any of our team anything other than to do it the fastest, most economical way and to make sure we have certain speed minimums while looking at the upgrade path.”

          Providing a wireless connection when you thought you were wired already is hardly “moving forward”

          And Malcolm’s admonition to NbnCo could mean anything. But it would have led to a two lane Harbour Bridge if the instruction had been given to Dorman Long.

      • In terms of rollout priority I’ve always thought HFC should be dead last to get replaced, and this applied equally during Labor/all-FTTP NBN. But in terms of actually making it part of NBN indefinitely, the HFC network has got to be where they’ll face the most challenges.

        Has HFC ever been used this way before? Anywhere? NBN can’t just do some capacity upgrades, they have to somehow make their current FTTN plans (at least) work on this network, and that includes voice and priority traffic classes. This also has to happen without touching Foxtel and without any disruption to existing HFC customers on Telstra/Optus plans. It sounds like a nightmare.

        FTTN sucks but it’s far more of a known quantity than HFC.

        • Considering Fibre already runs into the HFC hub and exits as coax, as how it is designed. The change would have to be mainly the electronic equipment upgrade in them.

      • I agree with you in that I think HFC areas can be kept HFC as a matter of lowest priority, but an upgrade needs to be scheduled for these areas after the rest of the nation is done.

        • I agree with you in that I think HFC areas can be kept HFC as a matter of lowest priority, but an upgrade needs to be scheduled for these areas after the rest of the nation is done.

          And after the poor bastards on FttN are rescued too.

          • Yes, but they don’t even stream in HD, they use SD only :/

            Australian companies that are aligned with Murdock are greedy and stupid.

          • Most of Prestos content has recently been upgraded to HD otherwise he cannot compete with the likes of NetFlix. Further more, sooner or later they will have to provide some 4K content which is the reason why he’s complaining in the News Corp article.

            Rupert Murdoch and 21st Century Fox are perfectly aware of the benefits of todays high speed broadband as it benefits his 27 Fox broadcast licences and much more.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel

            It is these licences that came under fire in the wake of the Leveson Inquiry in the U.K. An ethics organisation, Crew, filed a complaint to the FCC, requesting the licences to be revoked on the grounds that the Inquiry concluded that he was not fit to run a major international company.
            http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/may/01/rupert-murdoch-fox-licences-us

            Murdochs equivalent service in the U.S. is Hulu. 21st Century Fox is one of the partners in Hulu. They stream 720p content.

            When Murdoch feels threatened by his competition, attempts to out-Fox (LoL) his competitors, such as Amazon, Netflix, HBO, by pleading to the media industry and other lame tactics. It’s pathetic.

            He messed up MySpace, which he bought in 2005 for $580M. Six years later sold it for $35M because it couldn’t compete with Facebook. It failed to take off because of management mistakes after its purchase. MySpace developed a video service which launched 3 months before YouTube.

            In 2006, Google bought YouTube for $1.65B.

            Sayonara MySpace. :-)

          • Rupert doesn’t have to do jack shit, he owns the LPA, they’ll make the environment he wants. If things shift, he (LPA) will shift them back, or get the LPA to legislate something else favorable for him, that’s how it works “down under”…:/

  5. Right!

    Now I have a problem deciding which political party deserves my vote.

    Perhaps I shall decide not vote at all!!

    • No, that’s ludicrous. Not voting gives the LNP a free pass. As much as people like to hate on Labor the moment they say or do something a bit… misguided, which they seem to manage pretty damned regularly, what that makes them is ‘not great’ – on a scale of one to ten, they’re probably a six, which leaves a hell of a lot of room for improvement! And is a pretty glaring indictment on the political system when that’s the best we can do.

      But the LNP are about a negative two – they’re not just utterly incompetent (which would be a zero score) but actively, deliberately working against the interests of the nation as a whole.

      So sure, don’t vote for Labour – I won’t be! But vote below the line and put Labor before the LNP, which will guarantee you can get your point across while ensuring you put the worst outcome for Australia last.

      • As from next Wednesday I will no longer be in the country anyway.

        In 2005 I relocated to San Francisco to do a tech startup and I’m now a U.S. citizen. I have only returned to clear all Australian interests and will go back to continue my life and grow my business developing applications for high speed broadband and enjoy my residential 300/300 Mbps FTTP broadband connection.

        In the not to far distant future I have a much much bigger menace to deal with although I am not one of those strange people who think Trump is going to be the next U.S. President!

        • Do yourself a favor and start wondering what will happen if Trump DOES win. What does it mean for you (immigrant), your business, the area you’re based in, and so forth.

          That way you’re a little prepared if it happens. I expect California will be effected in a range of ways if he has the keys, so it cant hurt to consider the effect.

          • You’ve been watching too much American right wing media and suffering an overdose. You’re one of those “strange people” and I can even smell your fear.

            But I advise you that the media do not represent the mainstream American people who still clearly remember George W Bush and the biggest recession since the Great Depression.

            In any case, the current primaries in each State is merely for each political party to choose who will be their candidate to run for President in the next Federal Election. It is excellent that GOP chooses Trump to run, because it ensures 100% that Hillary Clinton will the next U.S. President.

            After that GOP will never be as we know them and hopefully it will be the death of them unless they reinvent themselves.

            Get your popcorn ready for the real Federal Election and take cover, because Rupert Murdochs colostomy bag is going to explode, which will ruin his honeymoon! xD

            Here… look for yourself.
            http://predictwise.com/politics/

          • Sorry, should have been clearer. I dont think he will win, I’m more suggesting that it cant hurt to consider it just in case. We voted someone just as bad in with Abbott (at least locally), so it can happen.

            But like you, I think his selection goes a long way to guaranteeing a Clinton victory.

          • I think it’s a little insipid that Australians, who live in a world of their own, advising American citizens in respect of the politics of the country! Americans make the decisions, if you don’t mind, especially in the light of the result of the 2013 Australian Federal Election.

            When I board the aircraft next week at Sydney Airport it will be like jumping into a time machine and journey 15 years into the future

            GonGav

            Immigrant? I didn’t arrive in the U.S. on a H1-B Visa as it does not apply to business. I am a U.S. Citizen. There are 1000’s in California that migrated from other countries. Just in San Francisco East Bay Area alone the are about 12,000 Australian expats. All of them working & voting citizens, have homes and sending their kids to school etc etc.

            Tinman
            http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-california-democratic-presidential-primary

          • I know Hillary is ahead of Bernie Snow, I was referring to the FBI investigation into her sending classified material via her private server.

            If she’s charged, her run is probably over.

          • Ease up Snow Crash, you’re reading a lot more into what I said than you need to. All I’m suggesting is that on the off chance that the idiot gets the keys to the whitehouse, what could it mean.

            His stance on people coming into the country is pretty out there, so does that expand past Mexicans, or would any crazy policy cast a wider net?

            You dont need to take such an aggressive stance, I’m not trying to drag you down or anything of the sort, quite the opposite.

            We voted a moron in here in 2013, it can happen. Abbotts policies were horrendous, yet you STILL see far too many people defending him.

            Politics are like that, and America isnt immune to it.

            If Clinton gets in as expected, then nothings lost. But Trump has some crazy ideas and in my opinion its worth considering the repercussions at least a little. That consideration may be that nothing will change, and yay, but I’d still be cautious.

          • ROFL…. that is old old story dating back years and years. One of her other faults is her interest in banks.

            But on the other hand Donald Trump…..
            Multiple chapter 11 bankruptcies, Trump University fraud, Mexican border wall, no foreign policy or international support, KKK, hasn’t released his tax returns, unworkable tax policy just to name a few!

            Suggest you concentrate on your July 2nd Election because I wouldn’t be surprised Turnbull and the LNP are returned to government. It certainly didn’t surprise me in the slightest in 2013 when Abbott was elected!

          • When it comes to decisions on Telecommunications in the United States, unlike Australia, politicians and American voters don’t have say on such complex issues and they are never election issues.

            All decisions are strictly in the realm of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in the behalf of Congress and such issues are voted on by five Commissioners who are selected in such as way so there is no political imbalance or persuasion. If legislation is required, the Commission drafts them and they are presented to Congress to bring them into law and the President of the day Seals them. The President can also Veto decisions are at an impasse in Congress.

            This way the country’s vital telecommunications is not held to ransom by the low-brow anti-tech Luddites. They learned this lesson years ago. :-)

            https://www.fcc.gov/

          • “It is excellent that GOP chooses Trump to run, because it ensures 100% that Hillary Clinton will the next U.S. President.”
            Both are equally bad options. Trump possibly less so. Possibly.

            “I think it’s a little insipid that Australians, who live in a world of their own, advising American citizens in respect of the politics of the country! ”
            Need I remind you of the GFC and 9/11? America fucking up fucks the (western) world.

          • “America fucking up fucks the (western) world”

            Take a real good look in your own fucked up backyard

          • @Snow Crash
            You might be shocked at the kind of support that Trump has.

            My dad is working in the US (has been for a while now … east coast in PA etc) and he was shocked at how many people in his company (boss included) were siding with Trump (aside from the usual party faithful),their main reason being he’s not a ‘politician’.

            We’ve all been assuming it’ll be a landslide the other way but it might be closer than some think … at least that’s what I’m getting from my folks. (Might just be the particular region I suppose who knows).

            Oh I’ve pretty well not fussed either way.

          • Simon M
            “their main reason being he’s not a ‘politician’.”

            The problem is that this is not true. Australians really only know Trump from The Apprentice on the Idiot Box

            Here’s some political history for you:
            Republican (1987–99; 2009–11; 2012–present)
            Independent (2011–12)
            Democratic (before 1987; 2001–09)
            Reform (1999–2001)

      • I am quietly confident Labor will do what is best technically given the unfortunate situation LNP has placed us in and will not base their policy on opposition for the sake of being contrary.

      • Voting has changed this election. You are no longer allowed to only place a 1 above the line; you are recommended/required (not sure which) to place at least 6 numbers above the line. If the model follows the same path as the NSW election process, you can number all boxes above the line.

        Essentially it is now you giving your preferences for parties above the line, or giving your preferences for individual party members below the line.

        AFAICT party preferences either no longer exist, or only take place when a voter places an insufficient selection of numbers above the line.

        #LibLabLast 2016

    • Labor seem to be doing everything they can short of political suicide – this gets my vote, the general public won’t tolerate thousands of km of new copper, the HFC network and any node boxes being essentially binned or sold off at bargain prices. even if Labor decided to fix current issues and boost whats there to get something approaching sustained 100mbps (within normal internet usage patterns and spikes I mean) that would be good but I don’t know what the upload max is over current equipment ??

    • Hell, vote independent or greens if you arent sure of which major you prefer, but don’t waste your “voice”.

      I don’t get people that donkey vote and then feel they have the right to bitch out whoever got in.

      • Exactly right tinman, everyone should vote or the libs win by default.

        The best thing anyone can do is vote for whoever they like but put the libs last! It’s were they put us after all!

      • Never in the last 20 years would have thought I’d be saying this, but One Nation have some surprisingly sensible and forward thinking policies. Greens are a bit of a mixed bag sadly. Some of their state senators are downright moronic.

  6. “The problem with HFC is that nbn™ have already bought it. To not use it now would be throwing money down the drain.”

    Not just the drain but a rather large black hole in the next budget would likely appear as a result too if it was written off.

    ” I would hope that would include hefty access charges for Foxtel, but who knows what the terms of that deal were…”

    We’re essentially paying Foxtel for it they’re not paying the NBN lol (le sigh). We’ve (MT!) agreed to maintain the network for them for the next 10 years whether MTM uses it or not.

    • If the terms of that deal are based on corrupt or illegal management and political decisions then those contracts are not enforceable. Proving that (or, indeed, finding those with the will to even bother investigating it) in this country would be fairly difficult, though.

  7. From where we are today, keeping the HFC until the FTTP rollout is complete makes sense. Then the HFC network can be replaced over the medium-to-long term. I suspect this is the ALP’s strategy, but they don’t want to draw much attention to it.

    • The ALP could stop the HFC rollout the day after they gain Government, no one is active on NBN HFC yet, there is no reason for a Labor NBN Co not to overbuild HFC with FTTP/FTTdp.

      But that’s not the smart thing fiscally to do though.

        • If you mean the HFC upgrade contracts so it is a viable product for ISP’s to resell it would be a cancellation non issue in terms of penalties, assuming they are substantial.

          If Labor wanted to drop HFC as a infrastructure option currently with zero customers beyond low number trials it could do it relatively easily.

          • Devoid they have already started trials. Turnbull great negation skill has done with the HFC as soon as they start using the HFC the have to take all of it and keep it running until Foxtel decides not to use it anymore.

          • Foxtel not using the HFC is a non issue they can and are using IPTV now on both Foxtel and their IPTV only company Presto.

          • Foxtel not using the HFC is a non issue they can and are using IPTV now on both Foxtel and their IPTV only company Presto.

            So you expect they’d just give it up if Malcolm asked nicely?

          • It’s not likely to be Malcom it will be be Shorten/Clare, assuming Labor win Government and decide to kill off HFC.

          • It’s worth pointing out that against the current anecdotes floating around, in actual statistical terms the betting markets are no more accurate than the polls, rather they are just aggregators of polling results.
            There’s also some evidence they have a bias towards male voting patterns as the majority of bookmaking company’s clients are male.

          • <There’s also some evidence they have a bias towards male voting patterns as the majority of bookmaking company’s clients are male.

            All good points.

            I wonder if there has ever been a study on the likelihood of someone gambling based on their political leanings? I’ll have to go look.

        • If it’s cheaper to breach the contracts and upgrade to FTTP now compared to upgrading HFC now and then upgrading to FTTP later, breach the damn contracts and explain to the electorate how the LNP stitched up the tax payer to waste billions of dollars.

          • Queue T$ suing and tying the whole process up in highest courts of Australia for probably the best part of a decade.

      • Buying the copper & HFC networks for a premium price in the first place wasn’t “the smart thing fiscally to do”. But now that we’re stuck with the fallout from that particular decision, we’ve got to try to minimise the damage to the nation. Operating HFC as long as possible is one way to do that, even if it means delaying upgrades, and eventually just overbuilding it with FttP/FttDp rather than spending more $billions upgrading it to DOCSIS3.1 standards.

        • Buying the copper & HFC networks for a premium price in the first place wasn’t “the smart thing fiscally to do”.

          They didn’t buy it for a premium price, they got it for the same contractual amount Labor were going to pay Telstra and Optus to have HFC for BB shut down, that way it helped to justify the expensive Labor NBN CPP FTTP overbuild.

          • Are you saying that when Malcolm decided to use Telstra’s copper they didn’t have their hand out for more money? That isn’t the way Telstra does business.

          • As part of that ‘same amount’ Telstra handed over the pit, pipe, and duct remediation and maintenance responsibility (including all that pesky asbestos) to nbn.

            Telstra has also been awarded an extra $1.6B contract to design & fix the HFC network we bought from them, so that it’s suitable to use for the MTM.

            nbn also has set aside somewhere between $180 and $290 million to integrate these extra HFC and FTTN technologies into NBN IT systems.

            We obviously have very differing opinions on what is included in ‘the same amount’. Why would you ignore the extra costs to integrate and maintain these extra systems?

          • They didn’t buy it for a premium price

            Why the $15b blowout after the *cough* not-sale then?

          • Yes I understand gaining ownership of the copper and HFC is not the end of any further costs involved in rolling out FTTN and NBN HFC, the point is any infrastructure incurs costs, it’s all about comparative costs and comparative time to completion.

            To blindly wave a magic wand and say if we substituted FTTN and HFC with FTTP all problems of cost overruns and meeting target deadlines would have been eliminated is just a complete fantasy.

          • it’s all about comparative costs and comparative time to completion.

            But never about ongoing opex, right? And you don’t need to remediate new infrastructure either, right?

            To blindly wave a magic wand and say if we substituted FTTN and HFC with FTTP all problems of cost overruns and meeting target deadlines would have been eliminated is just a complete fantasy.

            And yet the evidence shows that the build time is actually the same and that the MtM is blowing out on costs. Remember that chart you couldn’t understand?

            https://twitter.com/DCoopes/status/735101684829933570

            Fantasy indeed, and you’re living it.

          • oh it was me who couldn’t understand the chart was it? the discussion of that chart was covered well without repeating it all again here.

            In that case from your point of view of ‘the chart’ we can expect Labor to drop FTTN and HFC immediately after winning the election, no SR no CP, blow the dust off the last CP from 2013 and it’s full steam ahead with FTTP.

            The sole basis of that decision is ‘the chart’.

            Perhaps the finish date and funding requirements might need some tweaking, but what the heck, if you are prepared to blow $29M to bring FTTP to three small rural towns in West Tassie anything goes.

            LOL

          • Lol devoid labor can follow the same formula as Turnbull SR. Halve the cost of FTTP and add $1000 for no reason to FTTN and HFC.

          • Lol devoid labor can follow the same formula as Turnbull SR. Halve the cost of FTTP and add $1000 for no reason to FTTN and HFC.

            Actually Jason, I think they will need to add some associated costs to the CPP of FttN, they seem to have missed adding at least $15b to them.

          • “They didn’t buy it for a premium price, they got it for the same contractual amount”
            You appear to have forgotten (again) about the maintenance costs (to the same company, no less) which have already begun.

  8. They’ll keep rolling out FTTP where it is being rolled out, particularly in new estates.

    They’ll dump FTTN and replace it with FTTdp where they can.

    They’ll keep the HFC cable plans.

    They’ll keep the FTTB plans.

    And of course they’ll keep the satellite and wireless plans.

    So the only real ‘difference’ if you can call it that to the current Coalition MtM model hangs on the outcome of this.

    They’ll dump FTTN and replace it with FTTdp where they can.

    It will be interesting to see the Labor costing and time to completion on this, a infrastructure technology not currently being deployed on a large national target like Australia.

    The current MtM plan has FTTN/B planned for 4.5M residences, take out the FTTB component it leaves Labor with what as national percentage for FTTdp?

    It gets even more interesting if they only rollout FTTdp to part of the current FTTN (FTTB removed) target, the criteria they use to determine who gets FTTN and who gets FTTdp will be very enlightening.

    • It wouldn’t surprise me to find they can do Fttdp faster than FttN (and even FttP), considering FttP and FttN are equal at the moment in time to rollout…

      • me neither, seems a much simpler proposition than the node cabinets and if its even vaguely in the same ball park the speed gains and easy pathway to FTTP make it an absolute no brainer. I would consider it a trivial thing if my place got FTTdp rather than all fibre cause I’d be pretty sure that a couple of years later the cost for that last bit of copper to be replaced would drop down especially with something like a 3 year lock in for a plan from the ISP that did the job.

        • As a customer I would take a 5 year lock in. People imagine that something better might come along, but reality is that there are very few ISPs with competitive offerings.

      • “It wouldn’t surprise me to find they can do Fttdp faster than FttN”

        The comments that the expert they had in the Senate would lead me to believe that this is absolutely true. The FTTdp and skinny fibre use a universal connector that greatly increase the rollout speed…that was the gist of what I heard anyway.

        • The skinny fibre vs FttP also changes the network config from a loop to star (so you lose redundancy but cost and speed of rollout improve) pattern as well.

    • “a infrastructure technology not currently being deployed on a large national target like Australia”

      Neither has Docsis 3.1 been rolled out on a national target yet…it just started in January.
      What’s your point?

      • The DOCSIS 3.1 upgrade is relatively easy and cost effective because you are just upgrading existing infrastructure, if you have done the work to get it to the DOCSIS 3.0 standard 3.1 is not hard.

        FTTdp requires new infrastructure build, if Labor come out and say it will replace all FTTN targets not yet done post election with FTTdp it will be a risky statement of intent indeed without a detailed SR and their first CP, which will take them into 2017 before there is a FTTdp trial.

        • “FTTdp requires new infrastructure build”

          Really? In what way?

          “which will take them into 2017 before there is a FTTdp trial”

          Huh? Haven’t you been reading? NBN Co has already been trialing for a year now…

          “The DOCSIS 3.1 upgrade is relatively easy and cost effective because you are just upgrading existing infrastructure”

          Really? What (in your mind) do you think that means…just a firmware upgrade???

          • Chas 02/06/2016 at 12:04 pm

            Really? In what way?

            You answered your own question here.

            https://delimiter.com.au/2016/06/01/labor-take-nbn-beyond-node-ignores-hfc/#li-comment-741764

            I am not aware that infrastructure you stated for FTTdp already exists to the residence.

            huh? Haven’t you been reading? NBN Co has already been trialing for a year now…

            Makes you wonder why they have not announced it as a replacement for FTTN yet, guess it’s not happening anytime soon from the Coalition.

            “Fantasy fibre”: Coalition explicitly rejects NBN FTTdp model

            https://delimiter.com.au/2016/05/16/fantasy-fibre-coalition-explicitly-rejects-nbn-fttdp-model/

            Really? What (in your mind) do you think that means…just a firmware upgrade???

            It never said it was just a firmware upgrade.

            The NBN Co has announced DOCSIS 3.1 for 2017 in March last year.

            http://www.nbnco.com.au/corporate-information/media-centre/media-releases/nbn-co-to-unleash-fibre-speeds-for-cable-customers.html

          • “Makes you wonder why they have not announced it as a replacement for FTTN yet”

            Because they feel it is not politically good for them…

            “guess it’s not happening anytime soon from the Coalition”

            I have yet to see the Coalition produce anything worthwhile in communications…certainly not in the last 20 years or more. Why would you expect them to start now?

            “It never said it was just a firmware upgrade”

            No, you said it was “relatively easy”…I was asking what you mean by that?

          • Chas,

            Because they feel it is not politically good for them…

            I think the current NBN Co thinks it’s not ready for large scale deployment yet, if they did announce it as a FTTN replacement they would have to revise their peak funding estimates and their 2020 target finish date.

            If Labor did take FTTdp on it will interesting to see their funding estimates and target completion date after you drop the faster and cheaper to deploy FTTN rollout.

            If you notice Labor are very cagey about their ‘more fibre’ announcements, they avoid using the term FTTdp, they are worried about a large scale FTTdp deployment for all the same reasons I outlined above that the Coalition would be.

            No, you said it was “relatively easy”…I was asking what you mean by that?

            What I meant by that is what I followed that paragraph with, upgrading existing HFC to DOCSIS 3.1 is relatively easy compared to ‘starting again’ and overbuilding HFC areas with new infrastructure FTTdp.

          • “I think the current NBN Co thinks it’s not ready for large scale deployment yet”

            Why do you think that?
            It is much more plausible that they just don’t find it “politically correct”.

            ” if they did announce it as a FTTN replacement they would have to revise their peak funding estimates and their 2020 target finish date”

            Why do you say that? Do you have any data at all to back it up?
            All the data I have seen show that the deployment costs are the same or possibly less for FTTdp than FTTN, and they will most likely be able to deploy quicker (fewer Telstra copper lines to repair and no more nodes to deploy)

            “upgrading existing HFC to DOCSIS 3.1 is relatively easy compared to ‘starting again’ and overbuilding HFC areas with new infrastructure FTTdp”

            Again, what data do you have that would suggest this? DOCSIS 3.1 (as well as any HFC) will also require a great deal of lead-in work as well as re-engineering the current HFC (especially the Optus network).
            HFC is also far more expensive long term (as you know) both in operations as well as replacement costs.

  9. HFC upload speeds is disgusting. It is also a lucky dip. Depending where you live you MIGHT get 100mbps.

    At least with HFC for now hardly anyone is on it you get exactly 100mbps. With the speed tests on NBN right now people can hardly match what they pay for.

    HFC goes down regularly. They don’t notify you of problems or bother to bring it up or bother to notify you when it is back up. The modem will randomly hang up and I have to reboot it. The bridge interface is completely down and my router can’t access it. After a reboot reconnecting could take minutes, hours, days and even weeks.

    I had to reboot it only the other week and took 5 minutes to reconnect. I can’t imagine if someone who doesn’t know what they are doing has to go through ?

    The modems they supply are severely crap and insecure. The WAN can barely do 100mbps and falls over as soon as firewall filtering is enabled which is off by default. I have to bridge with a more secure enterprise level edgemax router and it can push 115mbps fine. My router can monitor for nasty traffic, has SPI, is hardware accelerated so faster routing, VPN, full ip filtering firewall, I block outgoing ports too.

    When I first got 100mbps cable it was down for 5 days every few weeks for 6 months. And every few months since then it will fall over especially when there has been a heavy rain. Faulty unstable crap.

    All this media reports of outages at the moment. Cable went down for half of sydney for 8 hours last year or the year before I don’t remember and not a word from them as they were buying the cable back at that same time.

    Seriously 3.5 days downtime and not able to get work done. Then they can get away compensating you by not providing a business SLA. You spend the whole time frying your brain monitoring their network and calling them back to get an update. Its wasteful and unproductive faulty copper crap.

  10. So Sydney region is pretty much stuffed. The entire economic region. Stuck on faulty HFC for decades. Those who didn’t refuse FTTN are also stuffed.

  11. What about those FTTN areas that are either currently under construction or have active services? Will they be replaced with FTTdp as well or just thrown on the scrapheap like the HFC customers and forgotten about!

    • If you have an MTM service now™ you’re flat out screwed and stuck on that until its all done and they’re making enough returns to consider upgrades.

      If you’re in a HFC area I can’t see them (aside from maybe dumping the Optus section) doing anything but sticking the locked in contracts and keeping ~4.5 million Aussies on that medium for the next 10+years.

      If folk vote muppets in muppetry is what they get sadly.

  12. But nobody is talking about them. As far as our political system goes, HFC cable might as well not exist. All anybody thinks about is FTTN — they ignore the fact that a third of the MTM NBN is slated to be HFC, which has many of the same long-term upgradability problems, and many other issues in the short-term (such as slow upload speeds).

    Define “long term” Renai?

    Even if it’s 15 years, HFC is probably financially viable to pursue. It’ll deliver the same speeds as even FttP in the medium term with DOCSIS 3.1, and as you pointed out, it’ll get a third of people on the MtM NBN within 2 years.

    As someone that will be on it, I’d rather that than FttN, or the bun fight that getting everyone on FttP/Fttdp would end up as :/

    • “I’d rather that than FttN”

      I’ll second that.

      Re the potential for DOCSIS 3.1 – I was of the understanding that neither Telstra nor Optus used coax that met the specs for DOCSIS 3.1. Is that not the case?

    • Long Term is the next 100 years which is approximately the estimated lifetime of optical fiber.

      PON technologies will evolve over time, with 100Gbps becoming available some time before 2030

      Currently gigabit-capable GPON is being deployed on the FTTP portion of the NBN.

      A few telcos around the world are deploying and/or upgrading existing networks to 10Gbps-capable NG-PON
      The ITU-T recently approved 40 Gigabit NG-PON2

      All of these technologies can be deployed side-by-side on a fiber to the user network.

      PON technologies are scalable and future proof. It requires no DSLAMs or exchanges.

  13. HFC is dead tech they can string the fiber on the poles as they are doing now using optical spliters one fiber becomes many why upgrade HFC just bypass it

  14. One thing is for sure and certain. Backward political anti-tech fruitcakes can never stop the onslaught of technical advancements and the need for fast broadband in the 21st century zetabyte era.

    http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/solutions/collateral/service-provider/visual-networking-index-vni/VNI_Hyperconnectivity_WP.html

    Nothing’s Going To Stop 4K
    http://www.lightreading.com/video/4k-8k-video/nothings-going-to-stop-4k/d/d-id/723689

    Only the lowbrow Internet users, still struggling to come to terms with email and Web browsing, can drone on about those of us who watch videos and partake in entertainment, gaming (MMOs) and virtual worlds.

    We foster the development of next- generation applications. Through our work, we help developers, communities, individuals, and partners bring gigabit applications to life.
    https://www.us-ignite.org/

  15. Millions more joining the team. Back in August most were reduced to arguing the %30 fttn given HFC, FTTB, LTE & Satellite all accepted. Now open to FTTdp. Funny to reread past posts.

    By the time FTTdp is a viable option, late 2017 (trials, integration, commerical support availability), FTTN would have passed 2m premises.

    But for Conroy the fixed line network upgrade would’ve been completed years ago. ALP appears determined to push that date, and costs, out as far as possible.

    Questioning HFC technology used today by millions of customers is bizarre. I see the old incorrect copper size arguement returning in comments.

    Maybe Conroy can release their next policy; relive the delusion;-)

    • Lol Richatd
      “But for Conroy the fixed line network upgrade would’ve been completed years ago”

      Yes your right it would have been finished years ago if the private industry was willing to invest the $B’s that you have claimed was out there waiting.

    • You may want to head back and read peoples actual posts before making up your revisionist history.

      My stance and this was held by many was this

      HFC areas should be left until last for FttP as their speeds are acceptable for the moment.
      FttB should be used in MDU’s as it is still FttP.
      FttP roll out should start in the newest suburbs with the pits that are in the best condition this would allow for new technology to be used in harder brownfield areas with poor pits.

      The big advantage of this is reduced cost and time to roll out at the start the costs would be fairly stable throughout the project as new technology and techniques are used in the harder areas. (eg Skinny Fibre, Process improvements)

      The big issue with this plan is political bullshit as per usual.
      Most newer suburbs are Labor held seats which causes massive issues in terms of “bias” so inefficient roll outs are force due to political bullshit.
      Use of FttH not FttP

    • Richard,

      Revisionist much.

      Since the change to the MTM has somewhat forced the issue. We understand that moving to FTTP everywhere may simply not be viable now that MTM has bastardised the original deal.

      Many of us have stated that FTTdp would be an acceptable solution. Many of us have stated that FTTB was always a good option, and that Labor would have gone to it eventually. Many of us have stated that HFC whilst having issues, would be an acceptable short term option, with the long term intention of replacing it. (That said, there has been little real movement on the HFC front. I am concerned that the lack of noise there is due to significant problems.)

      FTTN is the one we all want gone.

      In an ideal world FTTP to all would have been the best and most efficient long term solution. The MTM has forced us to re-evaluate that, and now we have to suffer lesser technologies in order to get their eventually.

      So in case you don’t “get” it.

      FTTP – 93% Best solution – No longer viable due to MTM.
      FTTdp – A good alternative that should allow almost FTTP levels whilst accounting for MTM problems.
      FTTB – Makes sense.
      HFC – acceptable stepping stone. Providing it is actually working
      FTTN – Bad. No one likes or wants it. Waste of money as will need to be replaced.

      • Dang I hope they overbuild HFC with FTTP/dp. Is it feasible to drop fibre to the pit but leave those that can connect on HFC to stay on that until the first rollout is complete, then come back and replace HFC with fibre?

        • Its the labour costs which are the killer. ‘revisiting’ an area will likely mean you may as well just over do HFC from the outset as the second time around the costs likely to be the same or more $$.

          Also the config nightmare for RSP trying to tell their customers who is and isn’t able to connect to XYZ would be insane. eg but but both my neighbours have fibre!?!

    • “By the time FTTdp is a viable option, late 2017 (trials, integration, commerical support availability), FTTN would have passed 2m premises.”
      Funny, the exact same thing could have been (and was) said about FTTN in relation to FTTP. Had the contracts not been scrapped.

  16. In the FTTx parlance HFC could be renamed FTTCoax. RFoG (Radio Frequeny over Glass) would see replacement of the coaxial cable connections to the premises with fibreoptic leadins, virtually FTTP with a different PON standard to the rest of the FTTP NBN. DOCSIS 3.1 would then run on optical fibre all the way to the premises coaxial cabling. Not many premises have a decent Cat 6 network yet quite a few have reasonable coaxial cable star networks; sure beats Wifi !! Upgrading HFC with RFoG would retain the fibreoptical core of the network, much cheaper than a full GPON replacement and much quicker. One PON for another; there is nothing sacred about GPON.

  17. Labor, or Bill’s Government, is promising to revisit the MTM NBN, but after the more definite unfunded election promises, a revisit might stop there. If the internal rate of return falls below 2.5%, Bill will be funding the NBN from budget expenditures; ouch. On the other hand, if the NBN can generate sufficient revenues, it should not only plan a plausible upgrade pathway but also build the current MTM in a manner that allows low expenditures on upgrades, i.e., the upgrade pathway will be financially plausible.
    As an analogy, we as a nation have an ever evolving road network; there is the expectation that road constructions are not static builds. Indeed, some motorways in Sydney are being expanded in less than a decade of opening.
    Whatever we do with the NBN, we must factor in the rising rate of technological change and the rising rate of internet usage. Capital expenditures can no longer be amortised over 25 years, rather a decade at most.

    • “Capital expenditures can no longer be amortised over 25 years, rather a decade at most.”
      Why?

  18. Rapid write downs are necessary with capital expenditures subject to rapid technological change. Small businesses have been allowed to tax deduct up to $20K per item in the year of expense, no longer writing down over years. The NBN as being built is not a forty year investment; reinvestment in uoprades will be necessary from the outset, not starting after 10+ years.
    5G wireless could potentially substantially devalue the value of the NBN fixed connection network, making privatisation with a good valuation impossible. 5G wireless might be much more suitable to the internet of things than any fixed connection network. If non-business internet users abandoned the NBN as quickly as they are currently abandoning the PSTN telephone network, the non-business users will be the elderly and the poor, still using their 801.11a or b home wifi, probably donated by a charity!

    • Ah gotcha. You are saying that Because of the MTM paradigm, the 25 year amortisation is out the window.

      As for 5G. Its still a ways off at the moment, earliest estimates were 2017 and most of them seemed a little pie in the sky(I haven’t looked at it hard recently tho in all fairness)… and even then, the suggestions I am reading are that it will really be complementary to fibre rather than competitive. Obviously it will have an effect once it is in play, but that may well be some time off at this point.

  19. In a perverse way, you have reinforced the unpredictability of future technology. No, 5G will not be ready in 2017, but we stand here in mid-2016. If you were personally responsible, say as CEO, for NBN investment, you would want as much info as possible on what is on the horizon. How long can a GPON network of FTTP be cutting edge? Alcatel-Lucent have an evolving TWDM-PON standard with Huawei breathing down the corporate neck, with 10Gbps bidirectional as a start and 40Gbps as reasonable fantasy. GPON is dead as we build it!
    FTTN at best must be an interim solution to get the network generating a return asap; on the other hand, the NBN should be working on its replacement now. Technology companies plan not just the next model but ideas for the two or three future models.

    • NG-PON2 does 80/80 gbps now over 40 kms on the exact same fibre as GPON, it even uses the same passive splitters.

    • Indeed.
      I have to say if I was looking at the details, I would still go a Fibre GPON network, because the cost of upgrading later, is much lower than rolling out something new.

      At the moment we are paying for the cost of the Copper, but we don’t appear to be making a return on the Copper. Using the copper which has a limited bandwidth right now, and very little growth left in it, would be madness. When 5G and other technologies do come along they will wipe out the copper etc, However they will compete/Complement the fibre. Thus the obvious choice is Fibre. Yes it has a higher rollout cost but in its current form it has a longer lifespan and is competitive with the upcoming but not here yet techs, plus with tech upgrades that already exist, it can be made to last even longer.

  20. Bill no longer ignores the HFC network; it will be part of the Labor NBN
    The HFC network built by Telstra is currently running DOCSIS 3.0, and we are being promised DOCSIS 3.1
    However I believe much of the upgrade is smoke and FUD (Fear, uncertainty and doubt, often shortened to FUD). The real issue is the quality of the existing HFC network. Telstra flogs as its Cable Gateway Max a Netgear C6300BD modem-router. On a lucky day, I might get 36Mbps download; I gathered from a Telstra field technician that I can pay extra and get up to 100Mbps. A little research on Netgear’s site reveals this device is capable of up to 1 Gbps DOCSIS download speed with 24 bonded channels; DOCSIS 3.0 not 3.1 !!!
    In the land of the free, I might buy my own ARRIS SURFboard SB6190 DOCSIS 3.0 Cable with 32 bonded downstream channels, for 1.4Gbps download.
    So before the great financial decisions about the effectiveness of upgrading to DOCSIS 3.1, why cannot Telstra, or the current suckers in the NBN who bought the HFC network, at least be a little open about what cripples Telstra’s network to such appalling speeds. We really don’t need DOCSIS 3.1 to achieve 1Gbps download rates, but a properly constructed HFC network. This is the real issue about being fit for purpose.

  21. The answer is technical as the maximum data rates depend on the number of bonded channels.
    A quick overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS
    For mind bending, Data Over Cable Service Interface Specifications DOCSIS 3.0 Physical ..at Cable Labs
    https://www.cablelabs.com/wp-content/…/specdocs/CM-SP-PHYv3.0-I08-090121.pdf

    From Fibre to the Home Council Europe
    http://www.ftthcouncil.eu/documents/Publications/DandO_White_Paper_2_2013_Final.pdf
    In Europe each downstream channel has a usable broadband capacity of 50 Mbps, and in North
    America the capacity per channel is 38 Mbps. With DOCSIS 3.0 multiple channels can be bonded
    to achieve higher speeds – note that these are radio frequency (RF) channels on the coaxial cable
    spectrum rather than physical cables. DOCSIS 3.0 has no limit on the number of channels that can
    be aggregated, as long as they fit into the available RF spectrum.
    Limits arise from the capabilities of the cable modem termination system (CMTS) and customer
    premises equipment (CPE). The cable operator must also decide on the most appropriate (and
    profitable) split between television and broadband services.
    Commercially available DOCSIS 3.0 equipment can provide:
     Download capacity of 400 Mbps (8 channels) on the DOCSIS CPE
     Upload capacity of 120 Mbps (4 channels) on the DOCSIS CPE

    So what happened in Australia when Telstra and Optus blindly raced to connect as many customers as possible on DOCSIS 2.0? Our version of DOCSIS 3.0 is like a crippled beast in comparison to overseas networks. Despite my affection for HFC, the truth might be that it would be cheaper to introduce FTTx than improve the fibre component of the existing HFC.

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