Surprise! Xbox One neutered for Australia



blog Look, I don’t know what y’all were expecting at this point. But if you’ve been reading Delimiter for a while, you may be aware that global technology giants do not always launch the same products in Australia that they launch internationally, they don’t always launch them at the same time, and they almost never launch them at the same price point. That’s why we’re not entirely surprised to find that some of the key features hyped this week as part of Microsoft’s Xbox One reveal won’t be available in Australia, at least initially. Kotaku tells us in several articles (click here for the first one, and here for the second; both are worth reading, if only to find out what Australians don’t know at this point):

“Today we revealed that Live TV, arguably the major focus of Microsoft’s reveal, will not be available outside of the US at launch … Similarly it was difficult to pin [Microsoft Australia marketing manager Adam Pollington] down on a price or a release date.”

Personally, the lack of detail regarding the launch of the Xbox One in Australia isn’t really an issue for me, as I’m not yet interested in the console in general. I already own an Xbox 360 (which I barely play these days) as well as a PlayStation 3 (which I play all the time), as well as a high-end gaming PC. If I was to say what would incentivise me to buy an Xbox One, it wouldn’t be the availability of TV on the device. After all, great PVR TV functionality is already available through FetchTV’s excellent new box. What would incentive me to buy an Xbox One is great new games available for the console. And so far Microsoft has shown crap all in that arena that I’m interested in; consequently, this week’s announcement was all a bit meh.

Yeah, there’s Call of Duty: Ghosts. But you know what? I’ve already played five or six Call of Duty games at this point. I’m tired of the format, and I don’t consider it my patriotic duty to chip in $89.95 each Christmas for the new version of this incredibly cynical capitalistic marketing machine.

If you want to know how I feel about the Xbox One in general, I would recommend you read this excellent rant by Digitally Downloaded’s Matt Sainsbury, who has summed up the feelings of many gamers on the issue. A few sample paragraphs:

“Microsoft’s logic behind the Xbox One is clear – the company wants to be the “go to” technology for the living room. When the one box sitting under the TV does everything, Microsoft is hoping that people will be more engaged with the device, and in turn spend money on games and other content by default by it first.

But here’s the thing – Microsoft has by doing this given the proverbial finger to its game community, and it seems to have misunderstood what gamers actually want in a console (or why gamers would get up at 3am to watch a console unveiling) Gaming is not the focus of this device. Microsoft spent so much talking about NFL (who thought that was a good idea for a global console unveil, Microsoft?), and TV, that game footage was regulated right to the periphery.”

What games do I want to see on the Xbox One? Well, given that I’m mainly a PlayStation gamer these days, what I really want to see from Microsoft is platform exclusives for big-budget games. The only problem is that if you scroll through the list of Xbox 360 exclusives over the years, the top titles have mainly boiled down to franchises such as Gears of War, Halo and Fable; all of which are basically tapped out at this point. Sure, there’ll be new Gears of War and Halo games for the Xbox One, but personally I’m not going to buy them — all of the emotion and gameplay for those series has been so well explored that there’s not really a point going there again.

Given that I couldn’t care less about sports games, what this leaves me with from the Xbox 360 is the possibility of arcade-style downloadable games, of which I already have plenty on my iPad and Android devices (to say nothing of my PC), as well as the TV functionality, which I won’t use, and the Kinect functionality, which, as a hardcore gamer, I flat-out hate. And to boot, the Xbox One won’t even play games from my existing Xbox library. That’s right: No backwards compatibility.

None of this is to say that Microsoft doesn’t have a huge amount of development work planned for the Xbox One, as well as a number of exclusives. Looking back upon most console launches, there is always a dearth of content initially. But what it does say is that I think it likely that much of Australia’s gaming community will be holding off on buying the console for a while until Microsoft makes the platform more attractive. Because right now, it just doesn’t have a huge amount going for it — and the situation is especially worse for Australians. Hell, we can’t even play Netflix through our existing Xbox’s, which has been core functionality in the US for years now.

Image credit: Microsoft


  1. Can’t give Australian’s access to online media content, those thieving little buggers, it’ll cut into the revenue from “exclusive” deals with Foxtel, et-all. No-no. No content for you.

    As much as a console is a popular alternative to a gaming PC, launches like this make me wonder how much longer they’re going to remain viable. The great irony is that the people claiming the PC is dead, are the very same people keeping that market alive, by neutering their own product.

    • “The great irony is that the people claiming the PC is dead, are the very same people keeping that market alive, by neutering their own product.”


      So true.

  2. To describe the reveal let me quote this funny YT clip –

    “Xbox One is… TV! TV! TV! TV! TV! TV!.. COD! COD! TV! TV!… COD!.. TV!”

    and so forth =P

    Lets just say for gamers this wasn’t that great. Especially since a huge chunk of the features are either not available on TV or most HDD/Smart TV’s are more than capable of doing now =P

  3. Does anyone else find it a bit creepy that Microsoft want to put an Xbox One, with a Kinect camera, that connects to the internet every day without notifying you, in everyone’s lounge room??

    George Orwell would have loved it…

  4. It’s funny how everyone is attacking the Xbox one for not being a gaming Console first
    however MS own data shows that none game activities are done on the 360 more then playing games

    I still think it’s early days
    they just announced the xbox One
    E3 they will show off the games
    and at BUILD they will tell us how developers will use the xbox One.

    • What did the people doing non-gaming-activities on the 360 buy it for? The not gaming?

      The point; is why would you buy a box that limits its usefulness in various ways; for watching media on; when you could buy a more versatile media-watching box. Or better yet; stick with the media watching box you currently use.

      You see; the xbox might be a good media watching box; but you buy it instead of something else *for the games*. I feel their anti-consumer practices like online every day and the murder of the second hand market on the games side; will reduce the attractiveness of the “games” side of the xbox.

      Leaving the media options as the main draw-card for an xbox one.

      Guess what Australians miss out on most in an Xbox One?

      • I am just telling you what MS own data shows
        when someone turns on an 360 the odds are they are not going to play a game.

        and guess what you are the customer you have all the power
        don’t like what MS is doing
        Then don’t buy the xbox one

        • My point was despite the media watching; that the purchasing habits of xbox 360 owners was game related (in general). I wasn’t actually disputing the usage numbers.

          And to your final point; I suspect many people will be exercising that right.

          PS. The first console I ever bought was an Xbox 1, followed by a 360 (bought 2 of these). So; it isn’t as though I hate Microsoft. I want the next generation of consoles to succeed. I hate seeing basic features of what I consider a gaming box removed for DRM (always online) and spurious financial reasons (paid-for second hand market).

          I am glad to see the new xbox will have capabilities close to my work laptop I got last year though!

      • I bought an xbox 360, for, well not for gaming, I bought it for xbox music, movies, foxtel, vevo, and well Karaoke, if that qualifies as a game :/
        There are plenty of people I know that have an Xbox 360 and use it a lot, but not for gaming, and if you look at the sales states worldwide on all gaming platforms, gaming users are falling across the board, so I can see why they are not talking about just gaming now days, it’s actually a smart business move.
        It’ll still provide a great experience for gamers no doubt, but as they have said they want this box to be a total entertainment unit, that’s what will sell high numbers of units.
        People talk about smart TV’s, well ‘smart TV’ capabilities are crap compared to this, or even the current Xbox 360.

  5. One box to rule them all and in the Microsoft bind them….

    apologies to J.R.R. Tolkein

  6. Mmmm. No backward compat? Surely it wasn’t that hard to leave in?

    The other thing is the specs of box PS4 and Xbox One are pretty underwhelming; PC’s are ahead by at least a generation.

    I wonder whether we’ll see an uptick in PC gaming, especially if things the AR ( and VR take off; they’d have to be easier to integrate and get running on a PC than having to pass ‘verification’ by MS and Sony.

    • New consoles are always good news for PC gamers, as it means the quality of ported/multiplatform titles released on PC should rise significantly. Particularly as the XBox One (and PS4 I think?) are built on x86 architecture..

      I couldn’t care less about the “One”(what an original name btw! :)). As a PC gamer I’m just looking forward to its knock-on effect for 64 bit optimised, ultra-high-polygon games :)

  7. I’ve been down to 2 boxes under the TV since 2006 with a Mac Mini(+eyetv) and a Playstation. If the Xbox One is gimped in any way, people will just stick with specialty boxes like AppleTV, Boxee, Tivo and any commodity DLNA enabled SAN boxes. At least they’ll happily torrent totally legal first release indy music video clips and the like from eye-patched media distributors.

  8. It’s such a strange decision, especially seeing that Australia is one of the few Xbox successes outside the US – Sony leads pretty much everywhere else except maybe the UK.
    To retreat back to the US only is a losing strategy.

  9. I for one welcome our new beta deck overloads.

    Though the vapourware feel of this “launch” annoys me. No release date and no hint on pricing with a mediocre at best release announcement.

  10. tbf, Sony has also stated that for the PS4, at least in the foreseeable future, backwards compatibility with PS3 games will be non-existent, this is mainly because both the PS3 and X360 use a PowerPC chip, where as the newer PS4 and X1 will utilise an x64 chip.

    Sony is looking for ways to make it possible to play them, and so far the only way they have come up with is through cloud streaming. It is possible that MS may go down that road too, though i wouldn’t hold my breathe on it.

  11. Xbox One’s unexpected pitch: It’s the Dad Box

    This is 1 of the headlines on CNET. Havent read the article yet but it made me laugh as a read it after I read this delimiter article. Football and TV kind of is marketed at dads, especially those who havent got into internet tv streaming yet.

    • haha. That is the perfect description actually. Its the perfect casual-gamer/sports/TV enthusiast box for 40 something+ Dads who don’t have the time or knowledge or desire to build a gaming PC/media centre.

      Unless developers think of some truly interesting and non-awkward ways to integrate Kinect into games, or people happen to be a mad EA Sports/Forza/Call of Duty fan, I don’t see any appeal for hardcore gamers yet.

      I will be interested to see what type of integration we eventually get with TV in Australia. I really hope they don’t do anything stupid and tailor the features it more towards Foxtel users. Hopefully deals are arranged with Freeview networks to allow similar types of integration as was shown off with cable TV in the US. Even then I won’t get one, but without the local TV integration, even “Dads” will show little interest.

  12. There is a reason that games consoles exist, and that is to play games, everything else… EVERYTHING else is pure bonus.

    Wasn’t this what Sony did with the PS2/3 when they first started pushing them. They were going to be the entertainment HUB for the TV or some such crap. I don’t remember because it didn’t work.

    We discovered a few things if I recall.

    1 Whilst having a DVD/BR player on the device is great, if the player and more importantly the remote aren’t good, then don’t bother.
    2 Whilst the concept of using the internet on TV is great, if you don’t have a keyboard and touchpad, its painful to navigate and do what you want on the internet.
    3 Being the entertainment hub means you have to be very nimble and despite a desire to make everything proprietary, you need to be compatible with damn near everything .

    If you want to know what the single device is that is central to the modern entertainment device. Its the TV/Monitor/Projector.
    Everything else just feeds it.

    • While I agree that display quality is paramount, I would also add that for people who want the best possible quality, the amplifier/receiver is the at the centre of an awesome home theatre/gaming experience. Given mine performs video transcoding, de-interlacing, and scaling of video, decoding all audio, and most importantly – it’s a video switcher with only a single HDMI cable needed to run to TV.

      So the thing is, how do people like me with amps that do A/V switching use the XBox One? I believe it has a single HDMI passthrough, which means I’d have to insert it between the amp and the TV (in order to get the XBox GUI to show over all sources) but then that messes up my entire setup of switching between sources with the amp. And unless it comes with IR blasters I don’t see how Kinect can control any sources other than the XBox itself.

      Anyone with a home theatre amplifier/video switcher and/or existing PVR (and everyone I know already has a PVR) is going to have make a few compromises to fit the One into their existing setups. Particularly in Australia where I’m sure the Xbox experience will remain gimped compared to the US.

      • Yeah I’m wondering this myself, I have a high-end Denon 4311ci audio-video receiver with ABT’s ABT-2015 video processor converting my tivo to 1080p and managing my other devices. and on top of all that, I have a $800 wireless URC programmable remote control which makes life very easy to operate everything.

      • Oh and one other thing that springs to mind, my Pioneer plasma is the professional 50mxe20 monitor (its not actually a tv, no tuner etc) and it uses dvi-d with hdcp support and as a result it doesn’t support Hdmi-cec which is how I assume the Xbox one turns tv’s on and off so it sounding like bein a royal pain in the a$$ to intergrate into a high end system!

        If MS wanted to be really clever they’d release a programmable “IR hub” (just not as dumb and annoying to program as Harmony remotes are) so the Xbox could control all the components in a high end system like a my universal remote does now.

        I’d still only pass my TiVo through it tho as I don’t see the point in having my high end bluray player, hd-DVD player (yes i still have one) and Apple TV thru it and it potentially gimping up my PQ!

      • Btw Simon, I noticed the Xbox one has a single ir blaster port on the back which I assume is to control TiVo’s & cable boxes.

        • “Yeah I’m wondering this myself, I have a high-end Denon 4311ci audio-video receiver with ABT’s ABT-2015 video processor converting my tivo to 1080p and managing my other devices”

          Very nice amp! I was just drooling over it’s specs :) I used to work at an independant hi-fi store where I primarily sold Denon amps. Nothing as sophisticated as your beast of course, but I’ve always loved the build and sound quality of Denon receivers and have owned a couple over the years. I currently have an Onkyo TX-SR876 which I’m very happy with. Its lacking some of the nice new features of yours but still produces smooth, powerful sound, and a respectable 1080p picture thanks to Realta HQV scaling.

          “Oh and one other thing that springs to mind, my Pioneer plasma is the professional 50mxe20 monitor (its not actually a tv, no tuner etc) and it uses dvi-d with hdcp support and as a result it doesn’t support Hdmi-cec which is how I assume the Xbox one turns tv’s on and off so it sounding like bein a royal pain in the a$$ to intergrate into a high end system!”

          Yes, and no. HDMI-CEC is of course preferable but as you discovered around the same time as me, the Xbox One also supports infra-red blasters. However coming from someone with a lot of experience with IR blasters doing custom installs, I can say that I absolutely hate them. They are one-way-disaster. All it takes is one missed/doubled/blocked signal, and because it’s one way communication only, your system is all out wack without the controlling device knowing it.

          The Verge had an interesting podcast after the Xbox One unveiling the other day, where they were tearing the whole “failed Google-TV-like IR blaster scenario” apart, and were asking why Microsoft would think that’s a good idea to replicate. I guess we’ll see.

          The problem is IR blasters are really the only way for Microsoft to maintain maximum compatibility with older systems, and for the multitude of people outside of the US without a newer cable box to be able to use Kinect to issue commands to other devices. However I’m guessing there will be a lot of unhappy experiences for the people resigned to using IR blasters for this purpose (which I imagine will be most Australians). Given most of us access TV from an inbuilt digital tuner, or a an external STB/PVR without HDMI-CEC support. Hopefully HDMI-CEC catches on more if people want a truly integrated experience like Microsoft showed off at its keynote, as IR blasters quickly become annoying and unreliable for anything other than the most basic of uses.

          It won’t be a problem your panel only supporting DVI though, as the only commands it has to receive from the Xbox One are on and off (and possibly input selection if you have anything other than the amp connected?). In any case, as you’d know – one of the great things about Pioneer panels is they support discreet codes for power AND input selection.

          “I’d still only pass my TiVo through it tho as I don’t see the point in having my high end bluray player, hd-DVD player (yes i still have one) and Apple TV thru it and it potentially gimping up my PQ!”

          I hear you. Its a tough one for us home theatre enthusiasts to know whether to use the XBox One as a traditional source, or whether it would be worth promoting to TV duties (in my case use with a Beyonwiz PVR) for use with Kinect. My Beyonwiz doesn’t support HDMI-CEC but I want to get rid of it anyway, as it can’t output a native “non scaled” signal like TiVo (without entering the setup menu to manually change the video output resolution, every time I change a channel anyway ;).

          If MS wanted to be really clever they’d release a programmable “IR hub” (just not as dumb and annoying to program as Harmony remotes are) “

          See my above thought on IR blasting :). The problem is unless you have discreet on/off codes for everything, there’s no way to tell the hub that something has gone wrong (hence Logitech’s often used “Help” button across their Harmony range). You probably know how poor the situation is with power toggles instead of discreet codes on most consumer electronics.

          We’ll have to see more from MS of course to see how well they have designed the IR and HDMI-CEC interoperability for operation with devices outside of the US (i.e. will it have a Logitech-like help option for failed IR commands?) but my guess is that its going to remain gimped for Australians for some time (maybe always, to an extent).

          Maybe we’ll need something like Kinect or leap-motion built into our A/V receivers of the future, to give home theatre enthusiasts like us the ability to seamlessly switch between multiple sources via gestures and voice commands (or we could always just stick to using our remotes ;-) )

    • Playstation 3 not a success as an entertainment hub? The Playstation 3 is one of the biggest factors in BluRay winning the format war.

      The PS3 for years was one of the best Bluray players you could buy. It was cheaper than any other one that approached it in terms of quality, and it was also a gaming machine. In fact its success as a Bluray player was one of Sony’s biggest problems, people were buying it for that purpose, and not buying games and accessories (where the profit is).

  13. I think if Microsoft are going to make this new “One” console work (as a TV box, not just for games) they are also going to have to change the way they do their subscriptions. I have an xbox360 but because I don’t have a gold subscription I can’t do basic internet surfing or even watch youtube through it’s interface. The irony is that because it is also a DLNA server I can stream video through my tablet without paying a cent. I only discovered this ability as there was an article about it in a tech magazine I was reading so I would expect most people wouldn’t know how to do it. Why would I pay a subscription service for something I can get for free? Smart TV’s these days are able to do much of these tasks natively and there are alternatives now to make this functionality available (like the mk808). I don’t think the “One” is going to be relevant in Australia unless it is able to provide something fresh and different for TV that we don’t currently have.

  14. E3 (just a few weeks away) will be where a greater focus on Xbox One gaming is given. The whole TV integration via ‘HDMI passthrough from a set-top box’ is a bust outside the US… many major markets outside the US rely on terrestrial broadcast FTA TV DVB decoded via a tuner built into the TV.

    Still, down the track they could potentially build an accessory similar to the Sony Play TV that contains a DVB/T tuner?

  15. Microsoft make stupid decisions all the time. It doesn’t surprise me that the Xbox one is another dumb thing and like the zune or whatever the hell it was called, this thing will be a dud.

    I stopped bothering with xbox after the first one died. I’ve continued with Sony from PS, PS2, PS3 and when the PS4 is released I’ll probably buy this.

    I use my PS3 more as a bluray player just because it does this very well and I’ll probably continue to do so even when I have my PS4.

    Microsoft wants to say fuck you to me, well guess what, it’s another reason for me to stick my middle finger up at them and continue to expel microsoft out of my life. If not for my need to use Visio for work, I’d gladly never touch another Microsoft product again.

    • @ Simon.
      physical disc still, really

      I still do and will continue to buy physical media until unable too, as this provides me the choice of how I use and store the digital media.

    • No, but I have a large collection and have not transferred all to a NAS or the like.

      My fiance is not very technical and she gets shitty when she has to use the NAS and media server to watch a movie, preferring to load a DVD and be done with it.

      Happy wife=Happy life :)

    • I will continue to buy Blu-Rays while they offer 20-35mbps 1080p video, with lossless DTS HD 7.1 sound at the proper frame rate of 24fps. Find me find an online service offering movies in even half that quality and I’d be interested.

      The reality is while I appreciate the convenience of “HD” downloads, and often sacrifice some quality myself to get content sooner, there is still nothing you can stream or download from any provider that comes close to the superb quality of Blu-Ray. The streamed movie might say “1080p” , but its the quality of those individual 2,073,600 pixels that count.

      People won’t notice much difference on sub 50″ TVs, or crappy quality LCDs, but on a high quality 50″ plasma every compression artifact of downloaded files is blown-up, colour banding is horrendous, mosqituio noise surrounds all objects (excmaple of MN here – > , and all the fine detail is lost in the compression.

      I have a Realta HQV video processor in my receiver which does a fine job of cleaning up noise and some mpeg artifacts, but the saying “garbage in, garbage out” is more relevant than ever with digital video.

      Basically Blu-Ray is still king of consumer-range picture and sound quality, and it will be until a 4K physical format takes it place.

      • Who the hell is making ‘PLASMA’ TV’s now? Oh It’d have to be Panasonic right?

        • Yep, but I’ll be holding on to my pioneer 50mxe20 for many years to come!

          I have an LCD as a 2nd tv but I’d only replace my Plasma with an rgb oled display – i just cant can’t stand edge-lit led based LCD TV’s!

          • +1. LED lit LCDs look fine for graphics, but look so unnatural for video. Particularly as most models have a motion-interpolation mode set to on by default, to “smooth out” movement at 200hz. Instead of seeing the movie the way it was shot at 24fps (i.e played back in a 1:4 sequence at 96hz on my plasma) you’re seeing an interpolated film with frames that never existed in the original footage, which makes it look like it was shot on video @ 50/60fps. I can’t stand it.

        • Of course :) . My 3 year old Panasonic plasma still kills the black levels, contrast ratio, pixel response time and overall picture quality of new LED/LCDs. And my friend’s 2007 Pioneer Kuro plasma has black levels that beat mine (its only a 768p panel though).

          It will take technology like OLED to knock plasma off its picture-quality-perch (and even then there are issues with OLED like colour over-saturation which need resolving).

  16. The only good thing about the Xbox One thus far is the fact that it highlights the massive digital divide in terms of content between Australia and the rest of the world.

    Microsoft now have a vested interest in seeing this change if they want some market penetration of the Xbox One in Australia. It’s going to be the last of the next-gen consoles to launch so if they can nail this before it comes out it would go a long way towards making consumers rethink their choices.

    I won’t be buying the Xbox One. I’ve had an Xbox and an Xbox 360 and while I enjoyed the former, the latter was a letdown and so it’s time to skip a generation.

    Sony have always had excellent original content and/or exclusives since the original PS and that didn’t change with the PS2 and PS3, and I doubt it’ll change with the PS4 so I think it’s an easy decision for me to look to the PS4 as my choice of next-gen console.

    I don’t even know what the hell Nintendo is doing anymore. I’ve given up on them which is disappointing since I had great memories with the NES, SNES, and even the N64 (Super Mario 64 is still one of the best games of all time).

    I’ve got my high end gaming PC which covers everything else so I think I’m set.

  17. Personally I’m looking forward to using a One as an entertainment hub and taking advantage of the hd Skype for catching up with OS family from the couch in our lounge.

    Controlling my TiVo by voice would also be great if it works well.

  18. Microsoft hasn’t always had the best products and isn’t always priced the lowest. They have, however, always been good at marketing their products. It seems their marketing department is now aiming their new One device (in the USA at least) towards the man who watches the NFL and wants to Skype with his pals while he’s watching it. The heavy focus on Skype with the new device also explains the mystery around why Microsoft didn’t create a Skype app for the xbox360 (so people will buy a One instead).

  19. ‘regulated right to the periphery’ ?

    Don’t you mean ‘relegated’?

    The main point I see here is that historically most hardcore-gaming consoles have always had advanced hardware – and Microsoft usually had the edge there; the Xbox was far more powerful than the PS2, and the 360 was slightly more powerful than the PS3.

    However this time around the One is not as powerful as the PS4 – leading me to assume that Microsoft no longer value the hardcore gamers they once courted so well.

    Sony are about to cream them (especially if Microsoft are the only manufacturer locking game discs to accounts).

  20. Whilst the issues raised here are important, what really bothers me is the thorny issue of licence transfers.

    What a lot of people do (especially kids) is share games with siblings, play games at friends houses, lend to friends/family and resell to others (individuals or trading companies). In practice this is either temporary (lending) or permanent (reselling).

    Microsoft has been very evasive on this issue. This is always an ill omen. Indeed rumours abound of Microsoft charging licence transfer fees and restricting resale prices which kills lending and probably used game sales as well.

    As a consumer, I find a corporation forcing this kind of control absolutely insulting. If I want to lend a game to a family member it should be MY choice and no fat-cat in Redmond deserves a cut.

    • The only way Microsoft would get away with locking each game sale to a specific account is if they drop the price down to Steam level pricing (like $10 per copy for older games, and $30 for a new release).

      If I have 5 children – each with an account – then they would obviously be totally F’ing dreaming (to use a colloquial phrase) if they charged more than $100 for those 5 licenses!

    • … and unless Sony colludes with them, then Microsoft would have shot themselves in the foot – as it will be cheaper and easier (more convenient) to just buy a PS4 and all the games on it instead.

  21. Fuming … although I’m not a gamer or a MS fanboi (are there any left outside of Print journalists?), I can sense injustice mixed with stupidity here.

  22. yup thanks to the networks we’re hobbled / neutered again .. thank goodness for VPN, plugins that let us get to netflix and hulu .. that plus plex will do me for now

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