‘We’re making history’: Govt on NBN launch


The Federal Government this morning claimed it had “made history” after it officially launched live services on its flagship National Broadband Network project on the mainland, in a ceremony attended by Prime Minister Julia Gillard, Communications Minister Stephen Conroy, independent MP Tony Windsor and a host of other parties associated with the telecommunications sector.

“Prime Minister Julia Gillard made history today after officially launching the National Broadband Network for the first time on mainland Australia,” the Government said in a statement associated with the launch in the Northern NSW city of Armidale.

A number of residents in Armidale have been connected to the NBN already for about a month, with a number of locals reporting in mid-April that their connections had gone live, with early entrant service providers such as Primus and iiNet connecting customers up. However the NBN’s mainland launch had not until today received its formal send-off.

The launch ceremony of the NBN in Tasmania almost a year ago in August 2010 was accompanied by a large degree of pomp and ceremony, with Conroy, then-Premier David Bartlett and Prime Minister Julia Gillard officiating at an event which saw the trio press a big blue button together to officially switch services on — despite the fact that, as in Armidale, some residents had already been receiving the NBN fibre broadband for some time.

The Armidale footprint will ultimately reach almost 5,000 premises — including the University of New England, with about 2,900 premises covered if the university’s grounds are excluded. And despite the fact that the rollout so far only covers a small number of those premises, the take-up rate has been significant — at 87 percent, one of the highest in the nation.

Gillard said the NBN would address the digital divide in the bush, where less people used the internet. “It means people can stay in their home town and still get access to the health services, education and training and business opportunities that people in our capital cities take for granted,” the Government’s statement said. “Importantly, increased education, training and business opportunities means more jobs in local communities.”

The premises who are receiving services in Armidale are part of an early trial of services in the region being conducted by internet service providers iiNet, Internode, iPrimus and Telstra. Commercial services are slated to start from September with a wide tranche of other providers to join the network — namely AAPT, AARNet, Comscentre, Exetel, Nextgen Networks, Optus, Platform Networks, SkyMesh and Vodafone Hutchison Australia.

Armidale is one of five first release sites where the NBN is rolling out on mainland Australia. The other sites of Kiama Downs and Minnamurra (NSW), Townsville (QLD), Willunga (SA) and Brunswick (Vic) will begin offering services progressively over the coming months.

ISPs and customers
A number of the participating ISPs also released statements this morning detailing their own participation in the project.

iiNet general manager of retail Matthew Dunstan said the company had two customers in the Armidale trial who were already enjoying the upgraded services. One, Peter Erskine, is a research assistant at UNI and a school teacher who predominantly works from home, while the other, Byron Miles, is a computer science student at the university.

“The speed is just incredible. What used to take over an hour now takes less than a minute,” said Miles in iiNet’s statement. “Also, everyone at home can use the Internet at the same time without the speed slowing as it did before.”

Rival ISP Internode said its first two mainland NBN customers were IT professionals Stephen Stroud and Owen Hedger, who both also praised the NBN in a statement issued by the ISP.

“For business, the NBN is going to be an absolutely boon – it’s phenomenal,” said Stroud, an IT manager. “Back in the old days, we needed three ISDN lines, with a combined capacity of 384 kilobits per second, to run a videoconference – which was fine as long as we didn’t have too many people and no one moved much. Now, with 100 meg down and 40 meg up, everyone can move and talk to each other in a great quality videoconference using a service like Skype. All you need is the right equipment at each end.”

“That’s phenomenal for anyone trying to run a business, particularly in regional Australia. That quality of communication allows people to become much more productive.” Hedger — a staffer at an Armidale computer repair store, said he used his NBN service to gain remote access to the office from home, and it was more like being on a local area network than on the internet.

Internode MD Simon Hackett said Internode was “committed” to being first with the NBN in every new area that it was rolled out in.

However, there is at least one group not in favour of the NBN rollout in Armidale — the Opposition. This morning, Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull continued a series of sustained attacks on the project, telling ABC Radio’s AM program that while it was a good thing for Australians in Armidale or anywhere else to have access to very fast broadband, the Government was spending more than was necessary to deliver on the policy aim.

“There is a better, faster and much cheaper way of doing it,” Turnbull said, noting it was possible to extend fibre from telephone exchanges closer to premises and deliver faster speeds — without going all the way to people’s homes and businesses.

Image credit: NBN Co


    • @Micheal Wyres

      Oh and also the wasted 12 month ‘let’s start again’ build tender – ‘notwithstanding’.

      But everyone hates Telstra we can always blame them if need be – oh we already have, well I guess Optus must be next.

        • Your point is what, the let’s ‘start again’ build tender delay was planned all along?

          • No, my point is you clearly have no idea how tender processes work.

            I’ve no doubt they would have loved to have avoided the cancellation of the original tender, but it is quite common for tender processes to end with no response being taken up if the content of the responses received do not reach specification and requirements of the tender detail.

            This is why Telstra was thrown out from the previous NBN tender process – their tender response was declared non-compliant to the requirements and specifications of the tender.

          • Yes I understand all about the tender process, the point I was making and which you avoided of course is that you didn’t mention the build tender delay in your statement ‘Telstra deal notwithstanding’ , it must have slipped your mind in your eagerness to be the first to post and ‘get behind’ the Armidale launch.

          • Actually, in your usual haste to go off half-cocked whenever you see my name, you’ve gotten it completely wrong.

            I was actually stating that even though the finalisation of the Telstra deal – (which will speed things dramatically) – is still to come, NBN Co are getting on with the build.

            And if we are talking about things “slipping the mind”, you’ve not answered the question – “Please enlighten us as to how many commercial tenders you’ve been involved with?”

            Yet another question you’re trying to avoid answering, as is your usual style.

          • The question is totally irrelevant to the point, although I can understand you want to try and make it personal and divert off topic.

            If I said yes to your question it has the same relevance as if I said no – totally pointless.

          • My question – (I repeat yet again) – was: “Please enlighten us as to how many commercial tenders you’ve been involved with?”

            If you answered “yes” or “no” it still wouldn’t answer the question, and would be a ridiculous answer to a question expecting a numerical answer.

            Pigheaded to the very end.

            You’re obviously not going to answer it, so I’ll leave you to wallow in your own mire.

          • Just cannot spit out the words ‘ NBN failed build tender’ can you, what’s up, it gags in the throat or something?

          • “Failed build tender” is a phrase you came up with.

            I’ve pointed out that it is common occurrence that tenders are cancelled or reissued for a variety of reasons, some technical, some financial, some political. Almost every tender I’ve ever worked on comes with the clause “tender may be cancelled at any time for any reason” or something very similar.

            I asked: “Please enlighten us as to how many commercial tenders you’ve been involved with?” – (and that’s now the fourth time)…given your clearly VAST experience in commercial tenders, you must have a different view, yet you can’t answer that simple question. All we want is for you to enlighten us with your clearly superior understanding of the subject.

            That is why the question is relevant, despite your vehement protestations that it is not.

          • I appreciate your somewhat feeble attempt to divert the build tender problem back onto me, as if me not answering somehow absolves anything that has happened with the NBN build tender.

            The question and answer is totally irrelevant, the vast majority of tenders are successful the first time around, this was a build tender evaluation process over about 12 months using taxpayers money then it was cancelled and they had to start all over again using taxpayers money.

            The delayed build tender is a delay on construction, a delay on construction is a delay on revenue streams from ISP’s , a delay on revenue leads to cost blow outs and completion dates already extended once.

            It’s all quite simple and rational.

          • Even if the question is the most irrelevant question in the history of irrelevant questions, can’t you just humour us with an answer? Is it so difficult to answer such a simple question? What are you hiding? What don’t you want us to know?


          • Holy cow alain, you are a pathetic human being. Do you have Asperger’s Syndrome or something?

      • LOL alain… You claim wasted taxpayer $’s and for NBNCo to reign in the cost… but when NBNCo do exactly as you ask and reign in costs (submitted by greedy private enterprise who wanted to gouge the taxpayer and make 5 years profits in 1 year) then you scream, failed build tender…?

        Oh, your perpetual contradictory nature is precious…!

      • I am sure the 7 people using it are happy with it, what’s that work out to be, about 5 million cost overhead for each person?

        • “7 people”

          7 people? 7 people?!?!? omfg 7 people on the first day in one town of a country with 22 million people of a project that isn’t even quarter of the way finished! that’s just terrible! NBN is doomed! omfg do you know what this means? DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS??? Mr Rabbitt and his zoo crew chums were right all along! Shit. Cancel the NBN… derp!

          • … and the active signed up figure in the first NBN areas opened in Tassie in August 210 is what?

          • …. and Brunswick you know the area where all the landlords ‘could not be contacted’ and not enough of the ‘the NBN explained’ spin booklets were in non-English.


          • Forget the racism I think a more poignant point is he is “moving the goal posts” when he doesnt even need too, we just established the NBN is a disaster based on the take-up in Armidale :-)

            btw before Armidale there was no Armidale.

          • Yes, but was there a road (after there were roads, of course) going through Armidale, before there was an Armidale…

  1. Ah ffs I’m sick and tired of seeing these stories and yet knowing I’ll have to wait YEARS before I can get these speeds.

    Just get a move on and roll the bloody thing out!

    • How do you know you have to wait years? For all you – (or any of us know) – your area might be near the top of the list.

      Forget the country first, city second part. While they will loosely try and achieve that, logistics of a project like this will see many exceptions along the way.

  2. Wow it has ‘made history’ has it Conroy?, all those residents here and overseas that have been using FTTH for years must be wondering if they are using a totally different product.

    Perhaps he means we have ‘made history’ for the time period the sucker taxpayer will be wearing the payback of this turkey.

    • The egg needs to be matured and hatch before you can call it a turkey, it may be an eagle and soar ,both eggs are white.

    • Funny alain (Mr. Contradiction) only yesterday via your alter ego advocate @ ZD, you argued that FTTH wasn’t being used much overseas (then you were presented with a list of about 50 countries constructing FTTH) and that FTTN was more so (of course wrong)…

      But it just demonstrates that you will contradict yourself, to suit your warpo agenda, at any given time!

      Or are you now admitting you were WRONG yesterday and FTTH is the worldwide leader after all.. well?

  3. We got comments from TWO vested commercial interest customers who are using it perhaps we need to get a balanced view from the majority as to why they are NOT using it – not likely eh?

  4. “There is a better, faster and much cheaper way of doing it,” Turnbull said…..

    RIGHTTTTT Mr Turnbull…While the third point (cheaper) may be argued by some to some degree (but would still fall short) how on earth does this luddite think that there is “better, faster” than a 100/40Mbit (and already planned for 1Gig) FTTH compared to the Wireless that his party is proposing? Even FTTN is no match..

    Please continue preaching to the luddites about how many billion it’s costing until you’re blue in the face but I where I REALLY get annoyed is when he tries to impress the uneducated out there with his promises of “better,faster” magical, yet to be invented vapourware that I have a major issue with..

    Yet the media keep giving him airtime to again and again brainwash the population that he has a faster, better, magical, yet to be patented or invented solution and he’ll do it for a fraction of the cost…

    • I think by “faster” he was referring to the fact to install FTTN on the same scale as the NBN would take approximately a 5th of the time.

      • See how Malcolm has switched from no NBN to cheaper NBN. You can already see him setting up the justifications as to why they can’t switch to FTTN, and thus be forced to finish the NBN but with some token political changes to competition arrangements.

  5. I expect the usual crowd of NBN haters to post their same old FTTN/wireless BS arguments here. However all I have to say is this great news and I viewed it as more of a symbolic day of great things to come.

    I really liked the choir from Smithton singing in unison with children in Armidale, but it was a little awkward at times, which is to the be expected with these kind of things. The high def video link-up Julia was using looked interesting, but it was a bit hard to follow the live-stream at times. Probably because it was a bit laggy and buffering for me over Next G wireless. Which of course is not something I’ll have to worry about when connected to the NBN :)

    Like everyone I wish the roll-out was progressing faster, and my area was next on the list, but hold-ups are inevitable and it will get to everyone eventually. Stop winging and be happy for the people connecting up to super fast affordable broadband!

    • @Simon Reidy

      “I really liked the choir from Smithton singing in unison with children in Armidale, but it was a little awkward at times, which is to the be expected with these kind of things.”

      Yes that is interesting, perhaps the Smithton link was on ADSL2+ because the majority of Smithton residents have put the NBN on a triple bypass.

      • I used to do some work in Smithton. Installing computers for an employment agency. Have you ever been there? If you had you’d know it’s a tiny rural area with residents with very little understanding or interest in technology in general. The lack of interest and take-up there is not at all surprising. Having said that as more residents are exposed to the NBN and understand it’s value, they’ll understand it’s something that will benefit them enormously and more people will sign up over time.

        • Yes I heard this is a rush of business moving to Smithton to take advantage of all that NBN goodness, the real estate agents in the area are rushed off their feet.

          • It’s a tiny rural farming area, which relies heavily on tourism. Which is exactly why it was chosen as an initial test site. The NBN will help businesses grow there over time and save people a lot of frustration, time and money accessing the net. The employment agency I hooked up several years ago was surviving on dual ISDN lines. Now they have access to 100mbps fibre. Imagine the difference that will make to the 8 computers they have for job seekers.

            Just keep focussing on the negatives though alain. It’s what you do best.

          • @Simon Reidy

            …… and you keep those rose tinted special NBN glasses on, the filter is extremely effective at keeping out what you don’t want to see.

  6. Spin, spin and more spin. Most of us will not see these speeds for at least a decade, maybe 2. It only took Labor 4 years from election promise to mainland connectivity. And only last week the NBN announced delays to the roll out. It does not take much to con tech heads.

    Blown away by that take rate, hahahaha.

  7. I hope the irony of having the mainland opening of the public funded NBN rollout at a very expensive private Ladies College is not lost on everyone?


      • What’s ‘Derp!’ the new in thing with ‘us tech heads who know about all about tech things like FTTH’ in place of the well worn out *facepalm*?

        • you really are behind the times arent you alain? im not up with all the cool kids speak but even i know this one.


          can you dial down your negativity meter a bit please? i know news outlets are famous for only dealing with bad news but for once its a good news story…..its a bit tiring having someone feeling it necessary drag in the bad like the cat dropping the rat at your feet. time enough for that later on and on another thread – and there WILL be other threads on the subject :)

          at any rate i count 15 posts in this thread with most of them having zero content and just about all negative. is it any surprise you are getting ‘derp’ed?

          incidentally private or no education facilities are pretty important to a nations future. given theres a couple of thousand ports needed for Armidale uni it probably is simply a matter of the Ladies college being small enough that it is one of the first cabs off the rank – not much point in making a hue and cry of a rollout some time down the track when an option that suits you comes up! so from my view its fine. Howards Liberals had absolutely no compunction about doing announcements and the like at private schools either btw – even if it was a national policy. good for the goose its good for the gander and all that….

          as far as fees the punters will be paying i was under the impression it would be the regular plan fees that any isp they are considering will offer them? do let me know if you have a link to any different information as im curious about that.

          • Wow nonny-moose, 15 posts arguing against the NBN, that cannot be allowed surely, of course 15 + posts sycophantically praising the NBN is ok, that’s what I like about the pro-NBN point of view, the total and completely objective view point.

          • As usual you miss the (this time nonny-moose’s) point alain… he meant 15 (derp worthy) posts “from you alone”…

            Ah with each NBN milestone the desperation in those even less coherent (if that is possible) derp worthy, posts, becomes more obvious…

            And yes I have made lots of comments since too, just to rub it in to the desperates who with every NBN milestone make 15 (now more) desperate, derp worthy, comments…LOL

          • “Wow nonny-moose, 15 posts arguing against the NBN, that cannot be allowed surely, of course 15 + posts sycophantically praising the NBN is ok, that’s what I like about the pro-NBN point of view, the total and completely objective view point.”

            no 15 posts that dont really contribute anything to the discussion. sycophantly praising isnt much chop either but when people have a link or quote something there is at least some evidence on their side. its human to take sides but just bashing without at least taking on the discussion on its merits really puts you in the position of those you accuse.

            if there is some actual discussion i dont mind 15 posts. its 15 posts of being as someone once said, being a ‘nattering nabob of negativity’. and i dont mind if there is more posts from you if they actually can contribute. like i asked before, “as far as fees the punters will be paying i was under the impression it would be the regular plan fees that any isp they are considering will offer them? do let me know if you have a link to any different information as im curious about that.” can you substantiate that? its all very well to ask mick to subtantiate his piece, but you have the same obligation too.

            youve been asked if you have ever had experience with tender proceses and you still havent supplied a simple yes or no answer. ironic you claim diversions from the subject but instead of answering that simple que you skate right back to your original premise of the ‘NBN failed build tender’ and the whole shebang becomes circular.

            again, can you actually answer some of the questions put to you and thus get the debate back in positive territory rather than being negative please? i dont mind an alternative viewpoint to discuss against just as long as theres an actual debate to it, not a strawman and ad hom arguments. viewpoints are always subjective, but you can do a lot better at convincing others of the value of yours.

          • You must be new around here, you won’t get anything more from Alain than what were getting now……

          • Indeed…

            Hence my (right or wrong) dose of his own medicine approach, towards him and his ilk…

          • nah been around a long time but the frothing denials that any progress is happening from the 2nd post of the thread – and the rest – without any substance finally ticked me off. like i say i enjoy a good debate – when the respondents can actually bring something with some meat to it. a lot of thread so far has just been so much watery gruel.

            RS it may possibly be the wrong approach. i dunno. but im trying a different tack, FWIW. i have (small) hopes that pulling the debate away from such a negative tangent might be more productive to all involved. yes i know, idealistic but as i say ive had my fill of the said watery gruel. it really couldnt be that much to ask for, surely? (resigns self to being dissapointed by humanity once again).

          • Yes alain. Your lack of objectivity, coherence and relevance is not worth reading.

            That isn’t what nonny was saying; Nonny was being quite nice about it. (just saying that perhaps you had said too many offtopic comments with little content related to the article).

            Me? You haven’t said a rational coherent statement in months. No amount of railing or question asking from now on will change my opinion of you. You are like those crazy guys I see outside the magistrates court in melbourne holding the signs saying: “Our justice is corrupt”. You really do seem crazy these days.

          • Ahh the good old generic scatter gun blast sprinkled with a hefty dose of personal attack , nothing specific, criticism at the personal level usually avoids specifics because that involves a modicum of research, too hard, take the lazy approach eh?

            Love your work.

    • what’s ironic about a private facility having power, water, roads and now fibre rolled out to it, all of which began life as public infrastructure and some of which still is?

      • Well it would have been more suitable to have the launch of a public funded facility at a totally public funded facility like a Hospital, CentreLink office or a State primary/Secondary school etc.

        But in terms of what ‘fees’ punters will be paying for a NBN Plan after the freebie pilot period has finished planned for July but I bet it’s extended it is probably quite appropriate, perhaps also the private Ladies College have better quality tea and cakes.


    • Gee sexist remarks too now alain…!

      So you hate the Labor party (and ergo the NBN and anyone who says anything positive about it), NBNCo, Quigley, Australia and our future and now “females”…!

  8. It’s amusing because Turnbull keeps forgetting that NBN Co is setup to run at a profit so in the end, the net cost to taxpayers would be $0.

    The positive externalities especially to business and research are enormous. This is our chance to move away from being a commodity based economy and into technology.

    • “This is our chance to move away from being a commodity based economy and into technology.”

      Oh yeah of course it will, all the Greenfield estates with FTTH infrastructure built years ago by Telstra Opticomm etc are full of IT and web developer businesses, it’s Silicon Valley Mark 2 out there!

      • Never crossed your mind that having it in more then 1 place might help with that?? But i gather not as long as you can keep crying about things you dont know you happy right?

        • Hey Mick if you have figures that FTTH in already established areas that have had it for years have attracted the ‘IT work at home small business’ revolution that everyone craps on about that the NBN will bring us I would be glad to see it.

          There is nothing like historical evidence to prove a point eh?

          No I didn’t think you have.

    • *It’s amusing because Turnbull keeps forgetting that NBN Co is setup to run at a profit so in the end, the net cost to taxpayers would be $0.*

      what about the cost to the economy of diverting scarce capital and resources into a supposed “investment” that only yields “7%”, when the same capital would yield an even higher rate of return (higher incomes, higher GDP) under alternative deployment scenarios?

      *The positive externalities especially to business and research are enormous.*

      businesses and universities already have access to fibre. indiscriminately pushing fibre to everyone home will make it more expensive for these genuine users to access fibre.

      *This is our chance to move away from being a commodity based economy and into technology.*

      bullshit. all it’ll achieve is blow out the “net royalties” component of our trade deficit as we consume more American pop cultural garbage over our fibre connections and fuel all kinds of other non-productive addictions such as online gaming, file-sharing (or file-hoarding), etc.

      that’s like saying if the Government gives every household a fishing rod, we’ll become the biggest fisheries exporter in the world.

      • I feel nothing but pity for your one-eyed views toshP300 and I mean that with complete sincerity.

        After all, how could anyone not feel pity for someone with only one eye and tragically that one eye is blind!

        • Got a bit too deep for you to respond in a rational manner again RS ?, best to stick at what you do best, school yard name calling.

          • LOL… coming from someone who makes sexist comments and admits to his own obvious insignificance is cute…!

          • You really are desperate to try and make some points stick, it has gone well past the rabbit in the headlights, it’s now just incoherent verbal diarrhea.

          • you’d think after months of religiously reading and auditing our posts, Tailgator (WP’s BIGGEST TROLL) would’ve advanced his knowledge somewhat. sadly, it appears not.

            don’t bother turning up for the exams, Tailgator – here’s your final assessment: FAIL.

          • You tried didn’t you, but as I keep saying, fly to web…LOL Thanks for proving me right, as you were, as I predicted, compelled/couldn’t control yourself…eh, “Mr. LOW AURA”…LOL

            Also, please bow, when you refer to me as Tailgator (sigh) your “pervasively much brighter superior”…!

            Anyway… Sadly, someone has to audit your ridiculous comments… But speaking of which, I see you are auditing your own for me now (good boy), by using my colourful lines/concepts… good for you, tiger!

            For example…

            NK* – “I don’t quite understand what the point….(cont)”.*

            tosh – “the first 4 words of that sentence sums up your participation in this discussion”.

            Previously –

            tosh – “sorry, i’m totally lost”

            RS – “yes it is apparent to us all, by your cluless, Liberal muppet comments, that you are totally lost, thanks for finally admitting it”.

            Keep up the good work tiger…and you and that “low aura”, hopefully, won’t remain “totally lost”, forever!

      • “what about the cost to the economy of diverting scarce capital and resources into a supposed “investment” that only yields “7%”, when the same capital would yield an even higher rate of return (higher incomes, higher GDP) under alternative deployment scenarios?”

        But it isnt about making money its not there highest priority!!.. Cant you see that?

        And what way can they diff deployment with the same Top of the line acces ??? Any fttn isnt it wireless isnt it so what could give us the same Level of performace that ftth would give ….. None \?

      • What alternative deployment scenarios? What the devil are you referring to? Where in the world can you take $27 billion and enjoy a significant above market return for 50 years? What could possibly be more profitable and useful than spending this loaned money on the NBN?

        “businesses and universities already have access to fibre. indiscriminately pushing fibre to everyone home will make it more expensive for these genuine users to access fibre.”

        What the HECK are you talking about?! Why are you such an obtuse moron? Pushing fiber to everyone makes it INFINITELY CHEAPER you mind-numbing idiot. You’re spreading the cost of deployment over a much larger number of people, who will all subscribe to your network since the other copper and coax networks are being decommissioned. AT LEAST use some common sense when arguing.

      • Actually it just occurred to me your comment is even stupider than I first realized. Those resources are not “scarce”. The NBN is being funded by bonds issued by the government and purchased by investors WORLDWIDE. Those investors have CHOSEN to invest in the NBN because they believe it has a solid chance of returning a market rate of return. If the Australian government or the Australian people believe there is another project worth investing in that will produce above market average returns, there is NOTHING stopping the government from acquiring more loaned funds by issuing more bonds. So stop being a lying weasel.

  9. What a waste – the government has killed the NBN in its current form with its carbon tax and assylum seeker policies.

  10. If the NBN is so great, then where’s the Productivity Commission report? Oh, that’s right, the Labor government doesn’t want one because the financial numbers don’t add up.

  11. A few facts presented without bais.

    The large percentage of Armidale residents who signed for free NBN connection will not necessarily transfer to the NBN via RSP’s. And this is why the Telstra deal is so important for the success of the NBN. To force Telstra customers onto the NBN.

    The NBN is presently not charging RSP’s a fee in Tasmania, thereby distorting the actual future cost of NBN delivery for customers. The spin and con for the Armidale switch-on was silly and Australia will applaud when the roll-out delivers the required 5000 premises per day and on budget.

    • Interestingly it’s stated Telstra thinking about putting 40 customers onto the NBN in Armidale.

      Forty!! – jeez are all these massive sign up numbers, I hope they don’t overwhelm the links, are they actually lighting up the fibre at all up there?

      • The existing customers in Armidale are not signups. They have side-by-side connections with their existing ADSL connections for testing purposes. Only as of yesterday can people “sign up”.

        • Why does a product called FTTH that has been rolled out in Australia and overseas by others and by the very same international company that is in charge of the NBN rollout require testing, and why for so long?

          What’s so different about the first activated areas of Smithton, Scottsdale and Midway Point in Tassie from the latest sites?, these Tassie areas have been active ( well if you could call it that) from August 2010!

          Do they have to test it in each postcode in Australia?

          • “…Why does a product called FTTH that has been rolled out in Australia and overseas by others and by the very same international company that is in charge of the NBN rollout require testing, and why for so long?…”

            Let me ask you another question you’ll no doubt refuse to answer – how many infrastructure projects (of any size) have you been involved with?

            Do Holden design and release cars without extensively testing them to make sure that they are safe, and perform their intended functions? To make sure that they – (to use a project management term) – are “fit for intended purpose”?

            Did Telstra build and release the NextG network without months of design and testing beforehand? No, of course they didn’t. They had to make sure everything was: safe, legal, met specification, etc, etc, before choosing to go to market.

            Not only have you clearly no experience dealing with tenders, you have clearly no understanding of even the most basic of project management skills.

            I’m so glad people like you aren’t involved.

          • So that’s a resounding NO then, you have no idea why a product that has been active in Australia from at least 2005-2006 with FTTH services from about 18 providers with about 180,000 residents on a active FTTH plan and earlier for overseas requires such a long testing phase.

            But of course the long testing phase is not technically based it’s politically based, caused by the start again national build tender and the two biggest Telco’s in Australia reluctant to embrace the NBN goodness by voluntarily rolling over and playing Rover by ripping out their own fixed line infrastructure anytime soon and handing over their substantial customer base without a hefty amount of taxpayer $$ being transferred into their bank accounts.

          • @Micheal Wyres

            You deliberate avoided the point for obvious reasons about all the FTTH residences in Australia and overseas that have been using the product for years and years, how do you do it, keep one eye shut and squint with the other one?

          • Which part of you have to test EVERYTHING as you roll it out to make sure it works do you just not understand?

            Do you cover over a new water main before you have checked if it leaks or not?

          • alain seriously, your hypocrisy is unending.

            Only two days ago (at ZD) you said FTTH wasn’t occurring much elsewhere, that FTTN was being furiously rolled out…throughout the world…

            Now today you wish to use widespread FTTH throughout the world, as your evidence…FFS do you have no shame at all?

    • Syd…

      There are 4 word in the English language which for multiple OBVIOUS reasons, just cannot EVER go together, in any order or way, in any sentence EVER… they are as follows

      * Syd
      * unbiased
      * Telstra
      * Lawrence

  12. My question is how can the NBN Co be using Telstra ducts in Armidale (as seen in many photographs)when Telstra promised shareholders that no deal would be made for their NBN use until Telstra shareholders voted on the proposed deal?

    • I’m not 100% sure if Armidale is above or below ground, but in a number of upcoming trial areas, Telstra have granted NBN Co access to the pits and ducts for the purposes of testing. The main build cannot start in an underground sense until the Telstra / NBN deal is finalised – expected at the Telstra AGM in October.

        • Now you are just being difficult for difficult’s sake.


          …”But in March the telco said it would not meet its self-imposed deadline of July and it is now expected that the group will probably time the shareholder vote on the deal to coincide with its annual meeting in October”…

          You’ll note that I in no way made the suggestion that Telstra announced that expectation, just that the October AGM is the currently expected time and date by most people with an ounce of common sense.

          I never claimed for a nano-second that “Telstra had made an announcement”.

          It’ll do you a world of good to stop putting words into people’s mouths.

          • I never said you said Telstra ‘had made an announcement’, I just repeated back what you said and what Telstra have officially stated to the market from the written release to shareholders and the ASX from the investor section of their website, not your unofficial media opinion piece link.

          • No no no, Nostradamus, you’re not weasel out of it like that.

            Let me hold your hand and explain it, okay? For arguments sake, lets say:

            – Telstra and NBN Co come to terms TODAY.
            – Both boards must then ratify the agreement – (takes time)
            – Federal cabinet must then look at it and approve it – (takes time)
            – The ACCC need to look over it and approve it – (takes time)
            – Telstra have to make a market announcement that the deal is finalised – (takes time)
            – Telstra has to organise for a copy of the agreement to be distributed to all shareholders – (takes time)
            – Telstra have to organise for the ballot at an AGM or and EGM – (takes time)
            – Telstra have to make a market announcement that the deal is now signed – (takes time)

            Now since the AGM is in October it would make perfect sense for everyone to seek to have it done by then so they don’t have to arrange a second shareholder meeting.

            Since you’re such a stickler for costs, I’m sure even you can appreciate the “logic” of holding it at the AGM instead of wasting time, money, and effort having two meetings.

          • @Micheal Wyres

            So that’s a NO then, Telstra have not made any announcement whether it be October or any month at all in which the NBN proposal will be put to shareholders.

            Good I’m glad we got that cleared up.

          • No, it’s an intelligent, reasoned evaluation of the facts and understanding of the processes at hand.

            (just so you know, I’ve worked in ASX-listed companies and know a little about how such processes have to occur)

          • @Micheal Wyres

            “just so you know, I’ve worked in ASX-listed companies and know a little about how such processes have to occur)”

            Oh have you? – ok I take it all back then, you win, when you punch hard you really pull out all the stops!


          • I raised it only because I’ve had to deal with such issues before, and understand many of the processes that have to be followed through and how long they take.

            But since you’re all knowing about these things, I was hoping you could enlighten us as to the wealth of your experience in this area. So let’s ask another question you won’t answer – how many have you worked in?

    • Oh this is the *wink-wink* ‘pilot phase’ SL, under the guise of ‘we are still testing’ all sorts of wondrous taxpayer subsidised take up plans are being offered, I assume at this rate we are in the second year of tewsting the ‘pilot phase’ of freebie type connections will take us into the 2013 election.

      It’s when the pitifully small number of customers on freebie pilot plans have to pay full commercial rates is when the s*** will hit the fan, in that case ADSL2+ may have a new renaissance age.

      Now that would be news ‘NBN CUSTOMER GOES BACK TO ADSL’ – perhaps Gillard will be at that ‘launch’.


      • alain, you haven’t answer Michael Wyres’s very basic simple question. How many tender process have you been involved before? And my question, what project management skills have you got? From your ill informed comments, i guessed zero.

        • Mr Chulo,

          how is alain’s professional experience relevant to NBNco incompetence? alain doesn’t work for NBNco. NBNco has to answer for its own competence in bungling a huge tender process that cost participants tens of millions of dollars.

          • It’s actually perfectly relevant, since he’s been jumping up and down about how the tender “failed” – (when there are in fact many reasons why a tender might be cancelled) – and when called out on how much work he has done in tendering, he’s spent two days ducking and weaving from the question.

            He’s also been asked how many infrastructure projects of any size that he’s been involved with, and he hasn’t come up with anything yet for that one either.

            The relevance pertains to the myriad of ridiculous statements he tries to make about the processes involved in such undertakings, so we just want to know something of his experience to be in a position to make them.

            Both questions are simple, numerical answers – yet he has not the courage to answer them, regardless of whether or not they are relevant.

          • you’re 100% correct. the fact that a costly and lengthy “tender process” was aborted is of secondary importance to the cause of the failure. in this regard, the anecdotal evidence from people [in the industry] closely involved in the tender paints a less than flattering picture of NBNco’s approach to the tender.

            these various consortia spent millions participating in the tender – it’s hardly in their interests to see the tender fail and then have NBNco turn around and negotiate exclusively with a single bidder (a subsidiary of a large ASX-listed multinational where the current NBNco CEO once served as a company director).

          • You’ve almost got it right.

            If I put out a multi-billion tender, and I get 14 respondents to that tender, and they each spent $2m preparing their response, 13 of those 14 respondents are going to lose their $2m if only one tenderer is to be selected to take up the contract.

            When you are evaluating whether or not to respond to a tender, there is a certain risk evaluation you must go through before committing yourself to go ahead and prepare a response and incur those costs.

            You have to evaluate the costs of preparing that tender versus the potential benefits if you win the tender and make a decision based on that.

            If you commit to spending $2m to prepare a response, there is ALWAYS the risk that you won’t win it, and never see the money spent preparing it ever again.

            Each of the tenderers will have understood that, and made their decision. Almost every tender that comes across my desk has a “tender may be cancelled at any time for any reason clause”, and in weighing up the risks of whether we respond to any particular tender, that is a factor.

            We have to assess how likely we are to win, how likely the tender is to run its course, etc, etc, and make a decision.

            If we were fronted with a tender that will cost $2m to prepare, we would have to be prepared for the fact we might not win it. There is always risk – and you win some, and you lose some.

            It’s part of the game. Welcome to the wonderful world of tendering.

          • i agree 100% with everything you just said.

            so, let’s build on that to further refine the argument. i think we can both agree that the amount of resources that a company will invest in any tender process is determined by the expected benefits to be derived from participating. these expected benefits, in turn, are defined by the value of the tender and the probability of success. we can describe it using a simple formula:

            EB = VT x Pr(win)

            assuming there are 10 participants in a tender, each partcipant has a 10% of success (Pr(win) = 0.1) in the case of a successful tender. however, an aborted tender means that the ex-post probability of a “win” is actually zero for ALL participants. in short, every participant’s time and money invested in the tender process has been wasted.

            hence, there’s a vital distinction between participating in a “successful” tender (Pr(win) > 0) and an “aborted” tender (Pr(win) = 0). of course, the risk of a failure in the tender can also be incorporated into the expectations of tender participants:

            EB = {VT x Pr(win)} x Pr(success)

            now, in estimating the probability of a successful tender (Pr(success)), tender participants will have to adopt assumptions about many parameters, ranging from how a reasonable tender is conducted to the intentions of the party conducting the tender.

            in short, participants ultimately have to assume that NBNco is conducting the tender in good faith, and is not just trying to use the lengthy and costly tender process to glean commercial secrets and market intelligence from the participants.

            in other words, it’s entirely appropriate to expect participants to factor in the risk of failure in their tendering activities, but only within “reasonable” parameters. the outcome of any tender is ultimately determined by the party conducting the tender, and they have an unshirkable obligation to ensure that they act in good faith within these “parameters”.

            so, you can’t just say, “the invitation to tender is non-binding, so fark you” ;)

          • Unless there is a clause that says the tender can be cancelled at any time for any reason at the discretion of the body seeking the tender responses.

            If you don’t like the clause, you don’t tender.

            So they can actually say “fark you”… :)

          • again, i agree 100% with what you just said… at least, in terms of the legal position.

            but, in business, if you don’t act in good faith, you end up pissing everyone off and destroying your reputation.

            of course, a freshly-minted, government-backed monopoly like NBNco is not just “any business” and can dictate the terms and, in general, behave in any way it chooses.

            (there’s already plenty of evidence of that: http://ozftth.blogspot.com/2011/05/where-nbn-has-gone-wrong.html )

          • It’s not a matter of good faith – if you sign on to participate in the tender, you’re agreeing to all terms and conditions under which that tender operates. You can’t then complain about the conditions later.

            Caveat emptor.

          • let’s just say, NBNco’s in a unique position to do things that no other telco could or would do.

          • sorry, the second formula should read:

            EB = {VT x Pr(win)|(Pr(success)=1)} x Pr(success)

            i.e. Pr(win) is conditional upon Pr(success).

          • Umm, why does it worry you and why do you keep running to ‘poor alains” defence, toshP300?

            If “poor alain” wants to come here and spread ridiculous FUD and get castigated accordingly, why does that matter to you?

          • You of posters in here ‘castigating’ me is akin to being hit over the head with a feather, responding to superficial personal attack lightweights like you is so incredibly easy it should be on the English curriculum of every primary school in Australia.

          • Sadly alain, you give us no choice, as you ask questions of others and receive clear and concise answers but when others ask of you, you either disappear or go off on some strange totally unrelated tangent..

            One boy against a world of men…

            As an example, here again is my condensed view (from ZD with you posting under alter ego advocate – just 2 days ago – to show you do this everywhere you go – AND THIS IS WHAT YOU DO – I USED YOUR WORDS). This outlines many correspondences you were having over one FTTN/FTTH topic, with HC (and a lesser extent me) … ENJOY IT AGAIN (I did)…

            advocate/alain: FTTN is happening throughout the world – only us dumb Aussies are building a white elephant.

            HC: advocate here is a detailed list of a vast number of other countries also rolling out FTTH.


            advocate: Oh so you are back pedalling in that biased rant

            HC: Umm no, I simply presented a detailed list of FTTH deployment totally disproving everything you just claimed.

            advocate: Oh so you are moving the goal posts now, in your biased rant.

            HC: No… again I simply supplied a FTTH list and BTW, there is no such list for FTTN

            advocate: All smoke & mirrors & verbal fluff skirting around the issues, you and your mate are a comedy act

            HC: Seriously are you able to comprehend anything I have just said to you?

            advocate: Ah got to resort to personal attacks now.

            HC: You really just can’t understand any of this can you?

            advocate: before roads, there were no roads… I win. {END}

            Pretty much sums up every argument you have had, do have and will ever have, doesn’t it?

          • There you go again copying and pasting out of context, across websites even, making up a conservation flow out of sequence and across different subject matters, really pathetic.

            You are getting so desperate you have to make stuff up with massive false copy and paste!

            Superficial and lightweight – I was being kind.

          • LOL… i forget that one… “there you go again copying and pasting out of context…”LOL

            Please simply add that to your repertoire above, between back pedalling and moving the goal posts, (thanks for that I overlooked it)…

            In the meanwhile for those intrigued by your strange, one boy vs. a world of men attitude…

            Here is everything in context..


            For those unaware I was forced into changing my posting name to rizz (closet I could get to RS) due to a faux pas on my part when changing my email details and I lost RS somewhere in cyberspace… (all clearly admitted to and outlined with a disclaimer, straight up – unlike some others eh alain/advocate)…!

          • Oh, I also forgot “backed into a corner”, eh alain/advocate?

            Just add that after, ah personal attacks, will do… phew I think that’s it…now…

            All the escape FUD there for you to easily access at anytime!

            Don’t thank me, it was my pleasure entirely…!

          • Why don’t you explain it all for us then, being the genius tender responder, well-practiced infrastructure project manager, and experienced company executive that you are?

            Since you attack everyone for putting in their thoughts while offering none of your own, perhaps it’s time you put your money where your mouth is and amaze us, or just relegate yourself to irrelevance.

            How about it, big guy?

          • Hmm, I must be hitting some home runs, the responses are off the planet, the need to divert it way off topic and try and get it personal and all about me and away from the subject matter in hand is turned into a frenzy.

          • How contradictorily ironic alain…

            You speaking of others diverting the topic and (excuse #4 from memory) crying personal…

            All you have done in this tread (as you do in all threads) is avoid the topic, troll and avoid scrutiny of your ridiculous comments. Go back and see how many people here have simply asked you for clarification or to provide basis for your claims! Yet rather than spill your guts, you worm and squirm so as to avoid incriminating yourself…LOL

            My point (for those sans comprehension) was, when HC simply tried to discuss just how wrong you were with your comment about FTTN and presented a comprehensive FTTH list, what you now accuse others of is ALSO EXACTLY what YOU did… (as demonstrated)…LOL!

            You ignored HC’s information totally (not even any recognition what-so-ever), then went wayward by accusing him of moving the goal posts, back pedalling and other such diversions from your totally unfounded, incorrect and “disproved” comment…LOL

            Man-up and face the consequences when you are wrong (just as I did yesterday when MW, gave me a little friendly advice)…!

            Now, go back and read my overview of your conversation with HC (and check the URL to the actual conversation) and see if that contradictory irony of your’s, will finally sink in…

            Hoist up the white flag tiger, your FUD trip is over!

          • You’re the one who keeps avoiding questions about the “subject matter” you yourself keep raising.

            We just want you to enlighten us. Show us the light. Show us how great you really are! Here’s your chance for some credibility.

  13. The alain circus rolls on unabated by, and totally devoid of, facts or commonsense…

    So you’d like to see your fellow Aussies have no technological advancement at all… no FTTH or FTTN?

    You just inferred that you can’t wait to see them/us all back on ADSL… seriously what a moronic statement (even coming from you) to make, even im jest.

    Not only do you not want those without to have, or those with average comms to gain improvement, you want those with better than average, to have it taken from them…!

    Your selfish comments have gone through changes from another’s perspective… from head shaking bewilderment, to belly aching laughter to your current repugnance!

    And look who else agrees… he who jumps from ship to ship – to whoever offers him and his TLS shares the most pieces of silver.

    …What a duo.

  14. Looks we are in for a torrid time with BS, Spin and Con until the next election.

    Latest Press Release from the Gillard Government.

    “The Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy Senator Conroy today welcomed the launch of new commercial broadband services in Victor Harbor in South Australia”.

    Goodness thousands of propaganda opportunities between now and the next election.

    • Well they know they have to push hard to sell this turkey, active plan uptake is pitiful, I expect the NBN hard hat and the NBN safety vest will be a permanent addition to the boot of Conroy’s and Gillard’s parliamentary cars.

      • As the holder of a nationally recognised construction site OH&S accreditation, I always carry a high-viz vest and a hard-hat in the boot of my car in case it is required.

        Since the Brunswick, Kiama Downs/Minnamurra, Willunga and Townsville launches will be coming up over the next month or so – (though Townsville is a probable late starter after the floods/cyclone) – they’ll need to be visiting those sites.

        Since Deloraine, Kingston Beach, George Town, Sorell, South Hobart, St Helens and Triabunna kick off shortly – (before the end of the month in the case of Triabunna and Sorell) – there’s even more sites for them to visit.

        Seems quite responsible of them to keep their hi-viz vests and hard-hats close at hand.

        Glad to see you agree!

        • I look forward to the signed NBN plan figures with ISP’s, I also look forward to see if it actually passes new customer dial-up plan figures from those very same ISP’s.

          I also look forward to how many customers stay on after July when the freebie cough-cough ‘pilot’ honeymoon is over.

    • “Looks we are in for a torrid time with BS, Spin and Con until the next election”.

      Yes and that’s just coming from you, vsms, alain and Telstra, phew!

    • The funniest part of this bash against the Victor Harbour announcement is that it’s not the NBN at all.

      Teehee…it’s the launch of ADSL services now that there is backhaul into that area to support it, yet people are going off half cocked about how low the uptake will be.

      • What bash against Victor Harbour?, point out the posts in here that complain about the uptake in that area?

        • In this comment, Sydney Lawrence said:

          “The Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy Senator Conroy today welcomed the launch of new commercial broadband services in Victor Harbor in South Australia”

          ( http://delimiter.com.au/2011/05/18/were-making-history-govt-on-nbn-launch/#comment-63116 )

          To which you yourself responded:

          “Well they know they have to push hard to sell this turkey, active plan uptake is pitiful”

          ( http://delimiter.com.au/2011/05/18/were-making-history-govt-on-nbn-launch/#comment-63118 )

          See? There you are having a shot at NBN uptake, in a non-NBN related announcement.

          *bounces ball in your court*

          • I know that announcement was about ADSL2+, SL said so in his post, I was responding with acomment NBN uptake in general and the need for spin, then YOU responded to my post about NBN uptake in general in the very next post referring to the NBN uptake in more detail, your point is what here?

          • No he didn’t…here’s a carbon copy paste of his post:

            “Looks we are in for a torrid time with BS, Spin and Con until the next election.

            Latest Press Release from the Gillard Government.

            “The Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy Senator Conroy today welcomed the launch of new commercial broadband services in Victor Harbor in South Australia”.

            Goodness thousands of propaganda opportunities between now and the next election.”

            Where does it say “ADSL”??? Where???

            If it’s possible for someone to have below zero on the credibility scale, you just earned it.

          • I was referring to how is being used TODAY not some nefarious date in the future when enough residents in the area sign up for a NBN Plan to actually light the link up in their own right.

            ‘”SP Internode has taken capacity on the Government-funded Victor Harbor backhaul link, using it to enable ADSL2+ service expansion in the South Australian coastal region.

            Managing director Simon Hackett told iTnews that the company had deployed its own DSLAMs in the South Australian coastal town of Victor Harbor, offering ADSL2+ services to residents.”


            Good try though MW.

          • No no no, Nostradamus – once again, you’re not weaseling out of it that easily.

            Sydney Lawrence’s post made ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION OF ADSL, and neither did you until I called you out on it, so you can’t go back now and say “oh, umm, err, I was actually talking about ADSL, honest!”

            Credibility sinking further.

          • Yes I thought you would like to read how the Victor Harbour link is being USED TODAY, I’ll repeat it for you again because you like to shut one eye and squint when it suits you.

            “coastal town of Victor Harbor, offering ADSL2+ services to residents.”

            The key phrase here is ‘ADSL2+’ the key phrase missing is ‘NBN FTTH’.

            I was talking about ADSL in reference to the recently open backhaul link all along, I still am, I know you don’t like to read how it is NOT being used for the NBN FTTH – stiff.


          • Here is some more ‘shit’ for you.

            “This new RBBP link unleashes true broadband competition on the south coast,” he said.

            “The competitively-priced backhaul service created by the RBBP enables Internode to deliver its best performance and most affordable ADSL2+ plans to the people of Victor Harbor, Strathalbyn and Goolwa.”

            “The great news is that this is just the start. Internode fully expects to undertake more ADSL2+ deployments in other parts of the overall RBBP project area: This is just what we’ve committed to so far.”


            Sorry I missed the words ‘NBN” in all of that!

          • You fail again!

            You tried to turn in into an NBN argument in the first place, and now you still insist you were talking about ADSL all along. I stand by my original premise that you are “full of shit”.

            – you REFUSE to answer even simple questions
            – you get things wrong and then try and arse-flip it to cover yourself, when all can read what you said
            – you continually chop and change your position to suit whoever is having a go at you for whatever

            You just cannot bring yourself to admit that you completely contradicted yourself, can you? Be a man for once and just accept it.

            This thread doesn’t need to continue – no doubt you’ll come up with something “witty” or “intelligent” in an attempt to “save your arse”, but I’ll need not respond further – I’ll just let your preceding trail of bullshit speak for itself.

          • Yes I thought you wouldn’t like it, of course there is a monumental irony in back haul links being built ostensibly for the NBN being used by ADSL2+, it’s a pity we don’t get to see how well the NBN FTTH will compete against ADSL2+ in its entirety because the idea behind the NBN ‘popularity’ is too make sure there is no ADSL2+.

            NBN FTTH is not about competing it’s about eliminating.

  15. This is slightly off topic Renai and I crave your indulgence, but RS being one who is versed in the political and financial system, could you explain to me how the Future Fund were so silly as to sell bulk millions of Telstra shares over the past months when even the drovers dog know Telstra was on the verge of a share-price increase.

  16. this is “digital era” pork-barrelling.

    spin, spin, spin…. to the gullible, gullible, gullible.

      • That’s really out of line.

        Whether or not you agree with someone isn’t a reason to tar them with an association you have no way of knowing actually exists or not.

        Argue with your knowledge, experience, and beliefs, not with low brow barbs.

        • Michael 99.9% of the time I agree with and respect you… This is that 0.1 where I do not!

          No it wasn’t out of line and you are (imo) wrong …sorry! And I do not wish to argue with you (due to my first line, above) but will, if need be…(which is sad considering we have the same objective, an NBN for all Australian’s)…!

          Seriously, if you haven’t noticed the obvious anti-Labor/pro-Lib overtones (as opposed to anti-NBN overtones)… well I’d suggest you go back and re-read our friends [sic] comments…!

          As far as I am concerned, if people wish to oppose the NBN so be it, but don’t oppose it simply from a blind ideological political objective…as this person obviously does, imo!

          A spade is a spade (no racist innuendo intended…sigh) whether you wish to acknowledge it or not!…

          • No, seriously…you have no right to assume that toshP300 has any formal political association by suggesting that the Liberal party is his “home”…

            Of course there are going to be political undertones in a debate like this, but you cannot assume someone’s political leanings based on their position in the debate.

            I for one have had Liberal political leanings all of my life, that doesn’t mean I attack the NBN because it is Liberal Party policy to do so. I just happen to believe that it’s an excellent policy, one which I support.

            For all you know toshP300 is a Labor supporter who hates the NBN – and that’s his right. Just because he doesn’t support it doesn’t automatically associate him with the Liberal party.

          • No seriously… I do have the right to assume, by powers of observation…

            Please use yours…!

          • MW…

            Although it does appear most obvious to me (and the fact when asked I did not receive a rebuttal from the accused…LOL) that by toshP300’s’ incessant attacks against the Labor party/government, rather than just the NBN, he is associated with the Libs…

            “I do not know this for sure, you are correct…”!

            So…as one who preaches facts and no FUD, it would be imprudent of me to make such an accusation, without knowing for sure (although I have been the victim of totally incorrect accusations form the accused myself…LOL! But I just laugh that off, under the circumstances).

            Unlike the anti-NBNers who in my experience have never, and will never, own up to their errors in judgement or questionable comments (as witnessed daily), I am man enough and willing to do say, my accusation was unfounded..!

            As an avid NBN supporter only… rather than a party follower, it really does irk me when it appears most apparent that people are commenting, completely ignoring the facts and blindly toeing the ideological party line…

            Whilst I acknowledge your comment as correct, I will not promise to let tosh off scot-free (while he incorrectly accuses me of being his pervasively brighter Whirlpool superior) though…! Although perhaps I should,…LOL!

            Cheers RS!

  17. Certainly Syd…

    The FF announced long ago that they would periodically, be selling down their stake in Telstra, so no surprises. As Telstra’s #2 “unofficial spokesman” and avid stakeholder, I would have assumed you’d know this already…?

    But, if you remember back to August 2009, when the first big FF sell occurred, the FF sold at $3.47. Almost $1 more than their all time lows, they recently touched.

    So considering this initial sale occurred over 1 1/2 years ago, at considerably more than they have been trading at since and are now even currently trading at (around $3.04 – so they are still ahead by some 14%) the sell was OBVIOUSLY MOST PRUDENT, wouldn’t you agree!

  18. RS depends how far Telstra shares run up. FF could have made a lot more money had they had the business foresight to hold for a while. Wouldn’t you agree?

  19. Why did you ask if you didn’t want the answer…Syd?

    Your argument is moot, because, what if Telstra reports a profit downgrade tomorrow and the shares are tanked again..

    It’s all good and well in hindsight (now that they have increased – as I said they would, remember) to say, what you just did!

    But hindsight is a wondrous thing, which I’m sure someone like you who bought TLS/T2 @ $7.40 and didn’t sell at $9+ can clearly attest to now that the shares are $3.05!

    As it stands the the FF sale at #.47 was clearly beneficial and has been for some 18 months…(plus interest too)..

  20. Maybe the carbon tax will pay for the NBN so that the assylum seekers can use it to speak to their families over Skype…

  21. The NBN debate has been intense, interesting and in most cases informative but the exciting part is yet to come.

    We see the Labor Government under siege on all fronts and under severe domination in every department except the NBN. A successful roll-out of the NBN is vital for the Labor Party to have any hope of remaining in Office after the next election and we can expect a do or die effort from Senator Conroy to deliver the proposed NBN network, as promised to all Australians.

    It remains to be seen if it is possible for him to deliver his promise within time and on budget but we can be sure Labor will move Heaven and Earth to save themselves and retain Government. Malcolm Turnbull is correct to point out the cost benefit doubts of the NBN while at the same time acknowledging that the NBN would be advantageous but costly.

  22. Advantageous but costly (psst – don’t mention it will pay itself back and will be costly to the tune of umm, $0)…

  23. RS perhaps, maybe and a possibility. It is good to dream. Still you have been right on occasions and I bet Gillard and Conroy plus every man and his (or her) dog in the Labor Party hopes your are in this case.

    • Syd… seriously I DGAF, what the Labor party thinks. If this was Coalition policy I would be just as vehemently in support. I care what is best for Australia and Australians and “I believe” the NBN is exactly that. Period!

  24. RS I am sure EVERYBODY agrees that a OFNBN would be a good idea. The question is will it deliver advantages that outweigh the cost? Also, is it even possible to be delivered on time and on budget?

  25. Is this person posting as RS, the same insect that posts under Fizzy on another forum?

  26. RS I understand your question but DOUBT the certainty of your belief that the NBN will pay for itself by reasonable charges to the Australian consumer.

    • Well Syd…

      When there wasn’t a Business Case (or Corporate Plan) all the perpetual naysayers said, this is a joke it doesn’t even have a business case….

      So a business case/plan was presented and on page 30 of the business case summary it says –

      “NBN Co. expects to pay cash dividends, beginning in 2020, which in the aggregate would repay the government’s entire investment by 2034, even if no shares of NBN Co were sold to private investors. Since such dividends would be paid out of earnings, NBN Co. would continue to be appropriately
      capitalized and capable of being floated in the public market whenever the government chose to do so”.{END}

      So according to the business case that people like you demanded to support this build, it will not only pay itself back fully by 2034, but that will be without being privatised. It can then (if need be) be sold for many $b’s and the “so called poor taxpayer” will actually make a motza…

      No I am not naive enough to consider this gospel… it may take longer. Or speaking from the flip-side of your forever pessimistic coin, it may (although unlikely) not take that long???

      But I believe the reasoning is sound and if people like you didn’t want to actually heed the business cases findings, why ask…(and then have the audacity to ask for a CBA too, to further ignore…sigh)!

  27. Well RS…

    I think it is safe to say that we have completely, utterly and totally exhausted all possible questions and answers concerning the NBN up to this time.

    Of course future happenings will expose further ammunition for more intense debate. The impending agreement between Telstra and the NBN Co should be the next big public happening and the details of this agreement will be most interesting. Particularly what assurances have been given to Telstra for compensation should we have a change of Government who may wish to cancel the NBN Co contract.

    One would expect that the compensation would be large enough to dissuade any future government from cancelling the NBN project. Interesting also, will be the state usefulness of the Telstra ducts to the NBN considering their age. If most cannot be used serious delay could be caused to the NBN roll-out. Also, and very importantly, those companies who will populate the Retail delivery of the NBN must have an ironclad assurance that the NBN Co will not enter the Retail area of the business.

    With the elimination of Telstra as a competitor to the NBN Co and the realisation of the call from Telstra opponents to split Telstra, it is to be hoped that Telstra has obtained from Government an assurance that the threats and blackmail will be removed and in future Telstra will be allowed to operate in a totally free and competitive environment without self-serving call from opponents for unfair regulation that hinder competition thereby restricting price advantages for the Australian consumer.

  28. Syd… imo, some of you comments could possibly be taken semi seriously.

    Until of course, as you did A G A I N above, you launch into your typical spiel, based around either “poor Telstra [sic]” being blackmailed, or disingenuous opponents disparaging… “poor Telstra [sic]”… and let’s remember why you do so (no need to outline again, we all know)!!

    Everyone also knows why Telstra are successful and to be fair, especially to the new management and the average workers, I’m sure they are hard working people doing their best. However, Telstra had an “UNFAIR” head start on the rest, via PSTN ownership, which simply cannot be ignored (by rational Aussies who aren’t slaves to their TLS shares that is)! So for you to now call for competition (which will flourish at retail level anyway, imo) when you previously considered “competition” to be a more taboo word than “separation”, is now most hypocritical (along with your pleads to the ACCC/Graeme Samuel who you previously, disgracefully accused of anti-Telstra bias and referred to, as did Telstra’s Dr Phil, as a wayward sheriff)!

    But do you really believe we should have copper and fibre running alongside each other? Perhaps we should have left the dirt roads and built asphalt roads alongside them too. And if the ducts are in a state of disrepair (as you allude to – due to their age) shouldn’t that obviously equate to less money for Telstra, surely? And… what about the copper within these ducts (that you want to run alongside the fibre) and it’s age/state too?

    Imo, until such times as you can separate your financial Telstra agenda which is clearly displayed at “every (yes every) comment”, I’m afraid you will, “rightfully so”, be a target for ridicule and little else…!

  29. Quickly RS (wife wants go shopping) two points that I am surprised you do not understand.

    1. With FTTN the copper and OF do not run side by side.

    2. The state of ducts are important because Telstra must provide NBN Co with useable ducts.

    And I would not be so presumptous as to give the guru advice, but get some Telstra shares. lol.

  30. Oh… so you DON’T want competition after all Syd?

    I.e. Telstra’s copper competing alongside NBN fibre, as you clearly suggested (the elimination of Telstra as a competitor)! You want no NBN (as it stands), FTTN including Telstra’s last mile monopoly and NO competition, again, FFS…shakes head…!

    Syd, I suggested TLS as a buy months ago, you know that. Reason being, they were at all time lows and sans another catastrophe (like losing FTNN twice) they really only had one way to go…up… And will imo (sans catastrophe, such as shareholders voting down the NBN deal…) keep gradually heading north.

    However I did put in a buy for Telstra (having bought/sold twice now – remember me telling you, when I bought each time) but this time, they didn’t quite go down as much as I thought (missed by just 2c and have now increased some 18%… as I suggested) c`est la vie… so good for you. So instead I have been accumulating bank stock, which admittedly hasn’t performed quite as well (up around 15% in the same time) but I believe is much less volatile (politically) than comms shares!

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