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  • Featured, News - Written by on Monday, July 25, 2011 9:51 - 144 Comments

    Undercutting Internode: Exetel reveals NBN prices

    National ISP Exetel has published its first commercial prices for services on the National Broadband Network, significantly undercutting previous prices published by rival Internode, with the cheapest option starting at $34.50 a month and the most expensive topping out at $99.50.

    Internode created furore last week when it became the first national broadband provider to publish its initial pricing plans for commercial services over the NBN, with the ISP offering a series of bundled plans with an included telephone line at prices ranging from $59.95 per month through to $189.95 for a top-end plan featuring 100Mbps speeds and a terabyte of download quota.

    Consumer groups such as the Australian Communications Consumer Action Network have raised questions about NBN affordability, while Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull claimed the release of Internode’s prices undercut the rationale for the NBN entirely, as well as the credibility of the NBN’s chief proponent, Communications Minister Stephen Conroy. The prices were welcomed by NBN Co, however, which described them as adding some “very good” options into the marketplace.

    However, Exetel, which is a much smaller provider but was still one of the first ISPs to conduct trials over the fledgling NBN infrastructure, last week published new NBN plans which appeared to significantly undercut those of Internode.

    For example, Exetel’s lowest end plan costs $34.50 per month and delivers 12Mbps speeds with 20GB of data quota, making it $25.45 cheaper than an Internode plan with the same speeds but 10GB of quota more. Higher speeds are also easily accessible at lower prices — for example, Internode will charge $119.95 for a 100Mbps plan with 200GB of quota, where Exetel will only charge $89.50.

    The plans appear, however, to be moderately more expensive than Exetel’s current broadband pricing. Currently, Exetel customers using ADSL broadband services would pay $39.50 a month for a service with 200GB of quota and speeds of up to 24Mbps, for example, and $25 more for line rental on a telephone line, for a total of $64.50. A similar NBN plan would cost $79.50.

    However, the NBN fibre infrastructure will offer customers significantly better latency than the existing ADSL infrastructure. In addition, it is expected to be more reliable than services provided over Telstra’s existing copper network, and churning between providers should entail no customer downtime.

    Like Internode managing director Simon Hackett before him, Exetel chief executive John Linton doesn’t appear entirely happy with the pricing framework being used by NBN Co to offer wholesale services to ISPs.

    “The Labor government has made a major issue in their litany of idiotic statements about the benefits of an ‘NBN2′ along the lines of “more speed at the same price of ADSL2″,” wrote Linton on his blog on Friday. “At ‘NBN2′s’ wholesale pricing today that simply isn’t going to happen … at least not from Exetel.”

    “Why? Because the monthly port cost of the lowest speed fibre service and the ‘backhaul/CVC’ cost is higher than even Telstra Wholesale charge for an ADSL2 service … and is almost double the cost of an Optus ADSL2 service … and that the fibre cost is going to get much higher once the ‘trial phases’ end and the [points of interconnect] move to their planned 121 locations instead of, as they now are, in CBD major data centres.”

    However, despite the pricing uncertainty, Exetel will send out invitation emails to its customers in early stage NBN rollout zones in NSW and Victoria, offering them a free NBN fibre plan install with no charges for using it until September 30th this year. The Exetel trial will allow customers to keep their existing ADSL service and use both the ADSL and the new fibre network side by side, while continuing to pay only for the ADSL service.

    “On or before 30th September they select which service they would like to keep,” wrote Linton. “If they don’t want to continue with the fibre service then they are not charged for it to be removed and they simply go back to using their ADSL service at their contracted price per month.”

    Linton added in a separate blog post on Saturday morning that he would have liked to have offered quite a different model of pricing for NBN customers — using a monthly flat charge plus a 20c per gigabyte usage model, with no charge for uploads. “But the ‘me tooism’ entrenched by the ADSL marketing processes was judged to be ‘a common sense too far’ for the current hysterical fibre environment,” the executive wrote.

    Image credit: Hans Thoursie, royalty free, Exetel

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    144 Comments

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    1. toshP300
      Posted 25/07/2011 at 10:32 am | Permalink |

      *Because the monthly port cost of the lowest speed fibre service and the ‘backhaul/CVC’ cost is higher than even Telstra Wholesale charge for an ADSL2 service … and is almost double the cost of an Optus ADSL2 service … and that the fibre cost is going to get much higher once the ‘trial phases’ end and the [points of interconnect] move to their planned 121 locations instead of, as they now are, in CBD major data centres.*

      thanks for reporting those comments.

      i wish there was a way (simliar to LSS/ULL) to bypass John Linton’s $20 toll on access to his blog.

      (even better if you can upload the full blog entry to scribd ;))

      • Posted 25/07/2011 at 10:44 am | Permalink |

        $20 is not a lot to pay for a lifetime subscription, you tight-ass ;)

        • toshP300
          Posted 25/07/2011 at 10:54 am | Permalink |

          LOL. you can never beat “free” ;)

          hey, if Internode MD can demand $10mln of CVC from NBNco for “free”, i don’t see why i can’t ask for free access to some “$20 blog” ;)

        • kentpaul
          Posted 25/07/2011 at 11:05 am | Permalink |

          I would donate 20 bucks if there was a mechanism to do it over paypal….

      • paul
        Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:32 pm | Permalink |

        calm down everyone, stop being so bitchy.

        the N.B.N. isn’t even here yet and you are squabbling over the initial bleatings of businesses testing the waters.

        i suggest you sit back and watch from the sidelines and wait ’till the game comes to you otherwise you’ll get an ulcer and be dead before the real fun begins.

      • Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:41 pm | Permalink |

        i wish there was a way (simliar to LSS/ULL) to bypass John Linton’s $20 toll on access to his blog.

        Hey, when you finished figuring that one out, explain to me how I can steal your computer.

        • toshP300
          Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:51 pm | Permalink |

          i was only kidding. of course, JL or his charity deserves that $20.

          • Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:44 pm | Permalink |

            Yeah… I was only kidding too.

            I would hardly expect you to give away something for free that I should rightly be buying the Ukrainian Mafia (access to your computer that is).

            • Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:45 pm | Permalink |

              “buying from”

    2. Marcus
      Posted 25/07/2011 at 11:09 am | Permalink |

      Do these prices include the “Phone service” that the Internode ones do?

    3. Posted 25/07/2011 at 11:10 am | Permalink |

      So, Internode’s pricing does not a market make.

    4. PointZeroOne
      Posted 25/07/2011 at 11:21 am | Permalink |

      Finding the closest matching plans in the 12/1 bracket.

      Internode – 12/1 $79.95 200Gb with VOIP account and $10 calls, no setup fee

      Exetel – 12/1 $74.95 200Gb + $100 setup fee

      Sure if you look at the 200Gb bracket over the plans it becomes a $10 difference and then a $20 difference.

      But 200Gb is also the max that Exetel offer. So Internode’s pricing appears to have lower end customers paying for higher end customers

      • Marcus
        Posted 25/07/2011 at 11:54 am | Permalink |

        ahh so no voice on those exetel plans… come on Delimiter I expect better of you. this is not anywhere near and apples v’s apples comparison.

        • Posted 25/07/2011 at 12:16 pm | Permalink |

          Actually the Exetel plans do include voice — but I think John Linton considers it such a basic add-on at this point that it’s not listed.

          • kentpaul
            Posted 25/07/2011 at 12:25 pm | Permalink |

            actually if you look at the left sidebar there is an option called voip over fibre

            its 5 dollars or 10 dollars a month which is still better than normal line rental

            • kentpaul
              Posted 25/07/2011 at 12:27 pm | Permalink |

              uhm..,.forgot to post the link

              http://www.exetel.com.au/residential-fibre-voip-pricing.php

            • alain
              Posted 25/07/2011 at 12:46 pm | Permalink |

              “its 5 dollars or 10 dollars a month which is still better than normal line rental”

              Well it’s just bog standard VoIP that has been around for years, it works exactly the same way as VoIP on copper and you can choose any VoIP supplier you want , you can have Internode VoIP on Exetel NBN if you want.

              BTW VoIP voice does not equal PSTN voice, that’s why a ISP like Internode for has two products, Nodeline (PSTN) and Nodephone (VoIP).

              Internode know many of their customers prefer PSTN that’s why they sell it.

              • PointZeroOne
                Posted 25/07/2011 at 12:53 pm | Permalink |

                the fibre phone line thing from NBN is being released later in the year and the Internode site says that this will be included in the current costing.

            • toshP300
              Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:14 pm | Permalink |

              the idea that building the NBN will allow consumers to escape the so-called “Telstra tax” or $20 line rental is a COMPLETE MYTH.

              that line rental is built into the $24 AVC port charge. otherwise AVC should be $4 (LSS (for broadband access) is currently only $2.50).

              at least for $20 line rental you can get HomeLine Budget.. now you’re paying the “NBNco tax” and not even getting a phone.

              • PointZeroOne
                Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:17 pm | Permalink |

                I’m sorry Tosh did you miss reading this part on the Internode page?

                “It will also become possible to obtain the bundled phone service as a conventional analogue fixed line voice service instead of using VoIP, once NBNCo releases this capability later in 2011.”

                I’ll assume for now that Exetel might/will do the samething

                • alain
                  Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:31 pm | Permalink |

                  Has anyone worked why this ‘complex technology’ called voice on a fixed line that has been around since 1874 has to wait until ‘later in 2011′ to be available on the NBN?

                  • alain
                    Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:32 pm | Permalink |

                    *worked out …

                  • PointZeroOne
                    Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:33 pm | Permalink |

                    I’d assume it’s another part of the network that they are wanting to test in stages before they release it.

                    • alain
                      Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:48 pm | Permalink |

                      So the data is easy the voice is hard?

                      LOL

                      • PointZeroOne
                        Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:54 pm | Permalink |

                        quality of service requirements would be higher for voice than they are data.

                        No one said doing voice is harder than doing data.

                        But they are two different things and require different hardware.

                        Just like the NBN is being rolled out in stages and test areas.

                        So would different technology on the NBN would be rolled out in stages/test areas.

                      • alain
                        Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:42 pm | Permalink |

                        So what’s so hard about voice over NBN Co FTTH as distinct from voice over FTTH in a Greenfields estate such as installed under the Telstra Velocity scheme that has been around in Australia for years ?

                        I am sure Telstra didn’t roll FTTH into those estates and say “BTW sorry, we will give you voice in 12 months – we are still working on it”.

                      • PointZeroOne
                        Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:44 pm | Permalink |

                        different companies.
                        different roll out
                        different ways of doing things

                      • alain
                        Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:11 pm | Permalink |

                        Oh I see, that’s makes it all ok then.

                        LOL

                      • PointZeroOne
                        Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:13 pm | Permalink |

                        Of course it makes it all ok. The NBN Co is rolling out the NBN how they see fit. They don’t have to roll it out how other companies have done it.

                      • Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:19 pm | Permalink |

                        Data is not hard. Voice is not hard.

                        There are a great many other things to consider with voice, of which latency is only one.

                      • alain
                        Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:16 pm | Permalink |

                        “Voice is not hard”

                        The NBN Co have been rolling out FTTH since July last year, 12 months later we still don’t have it, what’s the problem?

                      • Merlin
                        Posted 26/07/2011 at 11:25 am | Permalink |

                        Holy cow alain shutup already. The day you contribute anything of note to society is the day you can actually start whining about a national fiber network’s rollout plans.

                      • alain
                        Posted 27/07/2011 at 10:32 am | Permalink |

                        @Merlin

                        Oh it’s Merlin the personal attack BS wizard.

                        Your wonderful contribution to the debate is that Telstra is taking its profit and starting up monopolies overseas – and that’s one of you rational comments!

                  • David
                    Posted 25/07/2011 at 5:01 pm | Permalink |

                    NBNco doesn’t own any Copper for your PSTN phone lines. since now they have all of telstra’s copper network. they can offer copper services to those that want it.

                    • toshP300
                      Posted 25/07/2011 at 5:07 pm | Permalink |

                      you’re wrong there. they’re coughing up $11bln to Telstra but they don’t own anything of Telstra’s.

                      all they’re doing is leasing some bits of the infrastructure. in fact, they can’t even touch the copper without changing the deal and paying more $$$$.

                      the only thing they will own is the “fibre lead-in conduits” to the premises.

                      • RS
                        Posted 25/07/2011 at 5:11 pm | Permalink |

                        Oh and millions of customers….!

            • DG
              Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:11 pm | Permalink |

              Actually, Exetel offers a free VoIP account with every Broadband plan they sell. The $5 and $10 options simply provide an included call package, plus reduced rates for certain call types.

              • alain
                Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:18 pm | Permalink |

                So it’s free but you have to pay for it.

                • Merlin
                  Posted 26/07/2011 at 11:41 am | Permalink |

                  No you don’t have to pay for it. It comes free with the broadband account. Are you by any chance dyslexic?

                  • alain
                    Posted 27/07/2011 at 12:38 pm | Permalink |

                    That’s a new low even by your already low standards.

                    Well done.

          • Marcus
            Posted 25/07/2011 at 12:48 pm | Permalink |

            So if you add the VoIP costs they seems to be quite similar pricing, the big difference (and something that bugs me about the internode plans) is that Exetel are happy to have a more tiers in their pricing plan..

            I want at least 50mbit speed and more than 30 gig downloads but way less than 200gig downloads.
            Exetel fit this well, but Internode seem to want to simplify things to the nth degree and in the process it makes their pricing structure a lot harsher looking.

            Come on Internode give us some ant anti aliasing in your pricing structure… This 8 bit approach is just Ugly.

            • PointZeroOne
              Posted 25/07/2011 at 12:52 pm | Permalink |

              If you split the $100 installation fee across the 12month contract that’s an extra $8.30.

              So with voip added to an exetel plan yeah very very similar pricing

            • Dave
              Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:58 pm | Permalink |

              Except that the Exetel site explicitely states that all plans include a VoIP number.

              http://www.exetel.com.au/residential-fibre-pricing-mainland.php

              See the top of the page in bold just before the prices get listed.

              • PointZeroOne
                Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:01 pm | Permalink |

                But does that mean you can make phone calls or only receive them?

    5. Marlon
      Posted 25/07/2011 at 11:34 am | Permalink |

      A few typos Renai

      “he (THE) Labor government has made a major issue in their litany of…

      “Why? Because the monthly port cost of the lowest speed fibre service and the ‘backhaul/CVC’ cost is higher than even Trelstra (TELSTRA) Wholesale charge for an ADSL2 service …

      • Posted 25/07/2011 at 12:17 pm | Permalink |

        Fixed. Jeez come on, I’m allowed a few typos on a Monday morning ;)

    6. HC
      Posted 25/07/2011 at 12:27 pm | Permalink |

      Internode NBN vs Extel NBN. Who will win is the big question.

      I predict 200+ responses for this story…

    7. Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:18 pm | Permalink |

      Are we comparing apples to oranges in the NBN price vs ADSL price debate if we aren’t including ADSL/phone line rental costs in the ‘real’ cost of ADSL plans?

      • toshP300
        Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:21 pm | Permalink |

        ADSL – line rental $20, LSS (internet access) $2.50

        NBN fibre – 12Mbit AVC – $24

        • Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:31 pm | Permalink |

          So an accurate comparison would be Naked ADSL where that cost is bundled in to NBN plan prices?

          I think the ‘Mainstream’ media has missed the line rental cost to consumers – with most media outlets reporting prices for ADSL plans not inclusive of this cost against NBN prices that do include it.

          • alain
            Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:44 pm | Permalink |

            You need to make a distinction on what you mean by line rental and what PSTN line rental gives you which is not just a line but PLUS a voice service with all the legislated Customer Service Guarantees that Telstra has to provide when a customer takes such a service.

            There are also other advantages of PSTN like emergency calls recognition of address, back to base alarms and a working service if your power goes out at your residence.

            No such legislative customer guarantees exist for VoIP, and that’s another reason the best VoIP routers have a socket for PSTN fallback.

            • Justin M
              Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:00 pm | Permalink |

              “There are also other advantages of PSTN like emergency calls recognition of address, back to base alarms and a working service if your power goes out at your residence.”

              My alarm is BTB and works over VOIP. Battery backup is wonderful no? And as for recognition of address, that is possible with VOIP as well. Whenver I ring the Taxi’s here they ask am I sure that I want a taxi from them as my VOIP number is a Sydney number rather than Central Coast. They can even tell me the address that the number comes from and have before.

              Also Alain, have you taken into consideration the cost savings of VOIP over PSTN? I agree with you we should be able to have unbundled plans, just get that out of the way. But VOIP is heaps cheaper for calls, and considering that you are paying line rental + calls + ADSL, would not any discrepancy in most cases balance out, and in many be cheaper? (Assuming line rental vs port thingy charge)

              • alain
                Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:04 pm | Permalink |

                Well that’s interesting you say taxi’s know what your address is because the IPND, the Integrated Public Number Database only allows the full details, that is full name and full street address to emergency services only.

                The VoIP number gives them the exchange area, but are you sure it’s not because as a regular customer for that Taxi Co that when you ring they look up their own internal database and know who are and what your address is because you told them the very first time you rang?

                Hence the problem with VoIP numbers and emergency services that number can be used no matter where you are, they are not necessarily permanently linked to a particular address.

                I take on board what you say about the back to base alarm systems, it’s just that anything I have read is that PSTN line is recommended for them, even though they may work over VoIP, perhaps others with more knowledge on how they work can offer reasons why this would be so or not.

                Perhaps thinking about it logically it’s linked to the Customer Guarantee on the integrity of the line and fault reporting, Telstra know it’s a back-to-base alarm line and it has priority if a fault occurs, I would have thought such a line would need to have automatic fault flagging.

                • Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:26 pm | Permalink |

                  Taxi companies do not access to the IPND. They build their own database as people call in over time. I have worked with a number of these systems – (Raywood, Expertech, MTData) – and I have never seen any of them accessing the IPND.

                  • Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:27 pm | Permalink |

                    Should have been a reply to Justin.

                    • alain
                      Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:02 pm | Permalink |

                      Anything to add on back-to-base alarm systems?

                      • RS
                        Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:37 pm | Permalink |

                        Yes they are great for deterring dishonest, idiot, anti-NBN FUDsters from entering your premises ;-)

                • Grant
                  Posted 28/07/2011 at 1:54 pm | Permalink |

                  The IPND is just a database, Alain. There is no reason why you could not allocate a VOIP phone number to an address. BT in the UK went completely VOIP a couple of years ago, and they seem to be managing just fine.

                  The thing you cant do with voip over FTTH that you can with a copper PSTN is, as you mentioned, still use it when there is a power outage (assuming the power outage is localised…) But then, how many people are using a handset these days that doesn’t need additional power? How many people don’t have a mobile phone? I get that this is an important feature of a PSTN, but its significance is decreasing, and there are ways to mitigate the issue of power loss (which, arguably, you should have in place anyway if you feel it is that critical a feature).

                  Cheers,
                  Grant.

    8. Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:35 pm | Permalink |

      “Exetel Undercuts Internode” is not news.

      • toshP300
        Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:36 pm | Permalink |

        LOL

        • alain
          Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:50 pm | Permalink |

          Neither will be ‘Dodo undercuts Exetel’.

          :)

          • RS
            Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:56 pm | Permalink |

            Exetel undercuts Internode and Dodo will undercut Exetel…you say!

            Thus disproving 3 of you 4 usual suspects, all here and now (wow, FUD royalty)… and your BS relating to the initial Internode pricing and overall lack of competition…!

            Gee I even remember one saying RSP’s will all have the same “vanilla flavoured”, plans and prices.. eh Mr Contradiction?

            Go on now contradict yourself and say otherwise again…LOL!

            • RS
              Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:24 pm | Permalink |

              Gee no comment…?

              LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

      • PointZeroOne
        Posted 25/07/2011 at 1:56 pm | Permalink |

        It is news when people have been jumping up and down saying OMG INTERNODE PRICING FOR NBN SO EXPENSIVE NBN GOING TO BE SO EXPENSIVE

        • alain
          Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:08 pm | Permalink |

          There have been two comments accompanying each respective NBN ISP’s plan release, the Hackett blog repeated here in Delimiter and these comment from the Exetel chief.

          ” Because the monthly port cost of the lowest speed fibre service and the ‘backhaul/CVC’ cost is higher than even Telstra Wholesale charge for an ADSL2 service … and is almost double the cost of an Optus ADSL2 service … and that the fibre cost is going to get much higher once the ‘trial phases’ end and the [points of interconnect] move to their planned 121 locations instead of, as they now are, in CBD major data centres.”

          Just simply comparing the Exetel plan table with the Internode table and saying phew all is ok in the NBN resell world again is is total BS.

          • PointZeroOne
            Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:11 pm | Permalink |

            You’re right seeing 2 ISP pricing tables doesn’t = NBN pricing.

            But we are getting a better picture of it now and can see that the pricing isn’t all going to be like Internodes.

            • toshP300
              Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:17 pm | Permalink |

              *You’re right seeing 2 ISP pricing tables doesn’t = NBN pricing.*

              we already know NBN wholesale pricing and it’s EXPENSIVE.

              Internode’s upwards revision of ADSL pricing followed by statements that they will have to push prices even higher on NBN retail in the future confirms what the industry already knows, i.e NBN is EXPENSIVE to use.

              *But we are getting a better picture of it now and can see that the pricing isn’t all going to be like Internodes.*

              of course, not. just like you can get pick up a $50 hooker on Las Vegas strip street corner, or you can get higher class $5000/hr at the casino high-rollers cocktail lounge…. up to $1mln/night supermodels for billionaires like Tiger.

              • Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:25 pm | Permalink |

                Well, the analogy towards prostitution cleared everything up… *scratches head*

                • toshP300
                  Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:30 pm | Permalink |

                  careful with that bald patch.

                  • Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:37 pm | Permalink |

                    I’m sure if I had one, I would be. You just make sure you wear a condom with these hookers, okay? :o)

                    • toshP300
                      Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:40 pm | Permalink |

                      this is getting nasty.

                      • PointZeroOne
                        Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:47 pm | Permalink |

                        How is it getting nasty?

                        Your post that Michael replied to really didn’t make sense, as by the looks of it you and me are saying the samething.

                        Michael just pointed that fact out, you replied about him going bald and then Michael has made a reference back to the hookers that you brought up.

                        Really you are both being childish and slinging stuff at each other.

                        But that’s what these NBN threads ending up being

                      • toshP300
                        Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:56 pm | Permalink |

                        *Your post that Michael replied to really didn’t make sense*

                        i was just employing a colourful metaphor to infer that ISPs like Dodo are basically “whoring their network”. nothing more, nothing less.

                        *Really you are both being childish and slinging stuff at each other.*

                        agreed.

                      • Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:06 pm | Permalink |

                        There are “metaphors”, and then there are “tasteful metaphors” – but this is turning into a “meta-discussion”…

                        Meta…

              • RS
                Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:22 pm | Permalink |

                @ Tosh… perhaps “before whores, there were no whores” would suit the nay saying argument better ;-)

          • toshP300
            Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:12 pm | Permalink |

            it’s like if you never knew Dodo Internet existed….. then someone shows you Dodo congested ADSL pricing… and you exclaim, “WOW ADSL has become cheaper!”

            • PointZeroOne
              Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:14 pm | Permalink |

              But that’s the thing, ADSL is cheap, you can get it cheap. But along with getting it cheap you run into other problems. So of course you pay a higher price and get a better product

              • deteego
                Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:26 pm | Permalink |

                And these problems are?

                Currently the ADSL2 service I get is better in every way to an equivalent NBN service at a cheaper price!

                • PointZeroOne
                  Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:29 pm | Permalink |

                  Well arnt you one of the lucky ones to be living close enough to an exchange to get consistently 12Mbps or better

                  • alain
                    Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:08 pm | Permalink |

                    Who says he has to have 12Mbps or above to be satisfied with his BB service?

                    • PointZeroOne
                      Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:15 pm | Permalink |

                      Did you even read what I was replying too?

                      Deteego said Currently the ADSL2 service I get is better in every way to an equivalent NBN service at a cheaper price!

                      Which is implying that he is getting speeds the same or better than the NBN

                  • Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:56 pm | Permalink |

                    I get 14Mbps, according to a Telstra tech who recently visited, the main thing slowing it down that far is the shitty in-building cable which our landlord hasn’t looked at in 50 years.
                    8(

    9. Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:17 pm | Permalink |

      Exetel customers using ADSL broadband services would pay $39.50 a month for a service with 200GB of quota and speeds of up to 24Mbps, for example, and $25 more for line rental on a telephone line, for a total of $64.50. A similar NBN plan would cost $79.50.

      That right there is the key statistic, I’m sure this would be a very common plan and the pricing is very much smack on mainstream Australian Internet pricing. That’s more than a 20% price hike for going to NBN, at a time where official inflation figures are about 3% or something.

      {$15 extra per month} * {12 months} * {10M customers} / {7% ROI} = $25.7 billion investment

      Investment figure from the NBN business plan: $27.5 billion

      Comes out pretty close, this accounting stuff is kind of handy, we should teach it to kids or something.

      However, the NBN fibre infrastructure will offer customers significantly better latency than the existing ADSL infrastructure.

      Where “significantly” means “can be measured but has no effect on anything”. There is absolutely no end user difference between 20 millisecond ping times and 3 millisecond ping times.

      • Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:25 pm | Permalink |

        I almost forgot the obligatory “told you so” :-)

        To be fair though, plenty of other people said this would happen before I did.

        Now we sit and watch the ALP figure out how to get 10 million people to pay extra and achieve uptake statistics that no one else in the entire telco industry has ever been able to achieve… and you thought the circus was entertaining!

        • JayZ
          Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:51 pm | Permalink |

          @Tel

          Except you are forgetting a rather important distinction between your so called ‘similar services” on ADSL and NBN. how you can compare ADSLs “up to 20mbps” which for the vast majority of the population translates to sub 15mbps syncs (and for a significant number even below 10Mbps!) and the 30-40msec at best ADSL pings to NBN’s visually guaranteed sync of 25Mbps and sub 20msec!

          That my friend is a BIG distinction between the 2 services in real life, something not evident on paper.

          • Posted 25/07/2011 at 6:46 pm | Permalink |

            Not when they rip through their tiny quota and get shaped down to 512k, it will run exactly the same.

      • Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:35 pm | Permalink |

        There is absolutely no end user difference between 20 millisecond ping times and 3 millisecond ping times.

        Everytime I hear this I chuckle. That’s not how real-time communication works. Just because the latency is imperceptible to humans does not mean it doesn’t need to be reduced. If that were the case we would have stopped at about 80 ms because beyond that point no body will notice.

        In trade and stock exchange that extra 17ms can be the difference between making a trade or not.

        In gaming that extra 17ms can be the difference between if a bullet intercepts the target or not.

        All things the human won’t notice, oh I didn’t get that trade, oh I missed, I must have miscalculated his velocity and over or under compensated.

        But to say the experience to the end user is imperceptible? To say that 17 ms isn’t worth shaving? Anyone who says that doesn’t know how real time communication works.

        There are companies across the world right now paying billions of dollars in order to shave microseconds off a communication link.

        There are companies across the world who spend millions of dollars forming data centres 300m closer to communications hub in their city in order to shave one or two micro seconds off the time it takes to talk to a market else where in the world.

        17 ms is an age. And I will gladly pay the, quite frankly, tiny premium in order to experience it.

        • toshP300
          Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:40 pm | Permalink |

          *In trade and stock exchange that extra 17ms can be the difference between making a trade or not.*

          that’s precisely the point. there’s a market for that among BILLION dollar financial institutions doing computer-generated algorithmic trading to justify the investment in business hubs.

          there’s not justification to provide those kind of premium services to ordinary households.

          • alain
            Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:16 pm | Permalink |

            But there is to get the edge on some sucker ‘struggling on ADSL2+’ with a sniper rifle kill in BF2 though?

            :)

        • Posted 25/07/2011 at 6:27 pm | Permalink |

          In gaming that extra 17ms can be the difference between if a bullet intercepts the target or not.

          The scheduler in your operating system (under high graphics load) is probably only stable to about 10ms. The USB on your mouse and keyboard cannot deliver better than 1ms latency (because USB frames are locked at 1ms) but for practical purposes those devices are probably around 10ms as well (I know, you paid $300 for a low-latency gaming keyboard, so yours is no doubt faster than mine, well done sir).

        • deteego
          Posted 26/07/2011 at 1:39 am | Permalink |

          17ms is completely negligible when taking into account reaction time if you are arguing about gaming

          • Posted 26/07/2011 at 2:29 am | Permalink |

            deetego and Tel:

            You’re right, in the bracket where you don’t notice the latency, 17 ms isn’t going to make the slight bit of difference to humans, except on a once and a million shot. However that isn’t where 17 ms makes the difference. It’s when you’re just on the cusp of playability that it’ll make the difference. For example, playing on a server in the United Stated or even just across the continent or the ditch. By reducing latency by 17 ms you increase the horizons of players by 17 ms. It isn’t negligible in these cases.

            Also consider this, if the server you’re playing on happens to be hosted by another friend who has been upgraded to the NBN as well, the latency reduction experienced is now closer to 34 ms. If your friend happens to live in Perth and you in Hobart, that 34 ms might mean you’ll finally able to play each other without worrying about latency. It isn’t negligible in this case either is it?

            Next time you play one of your online games, and you’re playing a mate in New Zealand or across the continent, and you’re experiencing lag, think to yourselves, will that 17 ms the NBN will offer make the difference here?

            Gamers won’t wanted the improved latency of the NBN because it means they can pwn people with a better reaction time, they’ll want it so they can play on servers that used to be just too far away for their ADSL connections to handle (be it because of inefficient topology or other issues associated, I know how you love pointing out how it’s not the copper that’s causing the latency deteego).

            Not that that is a justification for the NBN in itself, never said it was, but I assure you there are people who will pay the premium for this extra 17 ms of horizon.

            • toshP300
              Posted 26/07/2011 at 7:59 am | Permalink |

              and the “premium” they will pay is as negligible as that “17ms”.

              • Merlin
                Posted 26/07/2011 at 11:49 am | Permalink |

                Why do you even pretend to care about the “premium” people will or won’t pay? It’s not like the well-being of Australians’ financial situation bothers you one bit. All you really care about are your Telstra dividends. Why do you have to be so sociopathic?

      • Justin M
        Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:43 pm | Permalink |

        “Where “significantly” means “can be measured but has no effect on anything”. There is absolutely no end user difference between 20 millisecond ping times and 3 millisecond ping times.”

        You are teh funneh. 20 ms ping times? Riiiight. Maybe if your copper is new and you live within 100 m of the exchange and are only getting info from someone else within the same parameters will you reasonably get that. Funny tho. Most people are not that close, nor have copper in anything but degraded states.

        • deteego
          Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:22 pm | Permalink |

          Most people are not that close, nor have copper in anything but degraded states.

          Can I have some evidence backing up this claim?

          • PointZeroOne
            Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:26 pm | Permalink |

            You want evidence that people are not within 100m and have degraded copper?

            *waves hand*

            I have degraded copper and am not within 100m

            • Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:38 pm | Permalink |

              You have delivered hard evidence that your reading is impaired.

              Please answer the question above.

              • PointZeroOne
                Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:46 pm | Permalink |

                How have I ‘failed’?

                Most people are not that close, nor have copper in anything but degraded states.
                Can I have some evidence backing up this claim?

                Is the question correct?

                Evidence that people are not that close = me not that close
                Copper in degraded states = me

                Life expectancy of copper is what 30 years? The area I live in is a lot older than that and so all copper in the area would be degraded to some extent

                • toshP300
                  Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:50 pm | Permalink |

                  is your local retirement home named, “Home for the Degraded”?

                  “old” does not imply “degraded”.

                  • Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:52 pm | Permalink |

                    My copper is 55 years old. It is degraded. I am beyond 4km from the exchange.

                    • Simon Reidy
                      Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:13 pm | Permalink |

                      It’s common knowledge that the farther you live away from the exchange, the condition of the copper, and line noise are all factors in determining speed and ping times. General rule of thumb is the further away you are, the slower your connection speed and reliability.

                      That’s why fibre is not comparable to ADSL2. I pay for a 25/1 ADSL2 plan and do live relatively close. However my sync rate is 16mbps and I never see downloads get above 12mbps down in real world terms. The best ping I can get to Melbourne gaming servers is roughly 40ms. I consider myself to be one of the lucky ones compared to others I know stuck on 6mbps on a Telstra DSLAM.

                      So in reality, even though I intend to pay more for at least 25/5, a basic 12/1 NBN plan would deliver me equal or better speeds (with lower latency) than I get now on so called “25mbps ADSL2″ now. Of course I also get 150GB to play with at the moment, so I’d expect at least that when I switch to fibre. 400GB a month would suit me just fine on a 25/5 connection.

                      • Posted 25/07/2011 at 6:05 pm | Permalink |

                        The best ping I can get to Melbourne gaming servers is roughly 40ms.

                        Can you please run a traceroute to that server and try pinging the actual ISP gateway (i.e. looking at the latency of the ADSL leg of the route) ?

                        We are supposedly talking about the latency of ADSL and copper here…

                  • Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:53 pm | Permalink |

                    ‘old’ does imply ‘degraded’ when we are talking about the copper. Telstra has been open about the fact that it takes a lot of time and money to maintain it.

                • Posted 25/07/2011 at 5:31 pm | Permalink |

                  You have yet to provide evidence, even for one single case… let alone “most people” which was the original claim.

                  What is your ping time to google.com.au and can you provide a traceroute?

                  • RS
                    Posted 25/07/2011 at 5:37 pm | Permalink |

                    As usual, evidence is typically dependent upon two things… those who want to know, or those who have your fingers in your ears, eye’s closed yelling na, na, na, na

                    Ooh did I say “your fingers ears in your ears”, I meant their fingers in their ears, of course…!

                • Posted 25/07/2011 at 5:37 pm | Permalink |

                  Life expectancy of copper is what 30 years?

                  The copper in my area is about 60 years old as best as I can tell from when most of the houses were built. Of course I can’t say with any certainty what any particular strand is doing. Telstra does not provide records of how often it has been refurbished in that time.

                  At any rate, attenuation in the copper is irrelevant to small-packet latency over ADSL, regardless of whether that attenuation is caused by the length of the wire or some sort of damage / degradation. You may get packet loss if the ADSL cannot find a noise margin that it is comfortable at, but I’m talking about latency, not packet loss.

                • deteego
                  Posted 25/07/2011 at 7:12 pm | Permalink |

                  I don’t know if you suddenly turned blind, but he clearly stated that Most people have degraded copper

                  I want to see some substance to that claim

                  • RS
                    Posted 25/07/2011 at 7:52 pm | Permalink |

                    As predicted rather than you accepting the answers (even evidence from the exalted Liberal party) to questions YOU asked, here come the excuses AGAIN (unlike the Senate comment which you just ignore now…LOL), just as prophesied…!

                    Gee and I thought you’d argue over one word but that word would be degradation, instead you try to weasel via the word MOST…sigh!

                    Instead of lmao I think lamo would be more apt!

              • RS
                Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:50 pm | Permalink |

                @ Tel, I answered him with Malcolm’s words, but again feel free to typically argue over the word degradation (“exactly as I predicted you usual suspects would”…LOL)…

                Here’s a few analogies for you, I’m going to buy a new PC… Oh is your’s old and worn out…? No it’s suffering degradation.

                Due for a new car, mine is rather degraded and in need of replacement… sigh!

                And BTW I think Tosh must have mistaken Michael for you above…?

          • RS
            Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:30 pm | Permalink |

            Thought I’d best reposition this…

            Well deteego, common sense (sorry, not meaning that as a personal attack, since you may not have any) says more people are on slower speeds because they don’t live near an exchange than those who do… surely even a FUDster political sheep, not suggesting you are ;-) could work that out…!

            As for the 2nd part, “degraded”… well from your 2nd hero (Malcolm’s) mouth “In terms of the bulk of the brownfields, existing built-up areas in the cities, there are some areas where you would run fibre right out to the home, or certainly very close to the home. And they might be areas where…

            *the copper network is very old or where it’s very wet*.”

            But if you wish to argue over the fact that the actual word degradation wasn’t used, as opposed to “very old and very wet”, please do so, if it saves dat ego…

            Just as your clone alain did, when he asked for examples of Coalition support for people to MOVE if they can’t currently get decent comms. So I gave him one (ironically YOU – as you said this and admitted to supporting the Coalition).

            Of course lainy then wanted to argue over the letter s, as in supporterS multiple… OMFG…

            • Posted 25/07/2011 at 5:43 pm | Permalink |

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latency_(engineering)

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throughput

              • RS
                Posted 25/07/2011 at 5:55 pm | Permalink |

                Gee here we (well you guys) are arguing over the difference between degradation and “very old and very wet…sigh” and distance from the exchange (which is bleedin’ obvious and universally known and accepted)…!

                But out of the woodwork comes wiki links to “latency and throughput”… two words not mentioned in any of the questioning…wow. But you will argue overe degradation?

                This must be those magically moving goal posts we keep hearing about from your clone?

                As such what about this doozy?

                http://www.itnews.com.au/News/264398,analysts-cast-doubt-on-turnbulls-nbn.aspx

                • Posted 25/07/2011 at 6:14 pm | Permalink |

                  Search for what I said marked “Posted 25/07/2011 at 2:17 pm” above, and read it. You know… reading… what the words say.

                  R E A D I N G

                  • RS
                    Posted 25/07/2011 at 6:24 pm | Permalink |

                    Umm the universe does not revolve around you, shock horror…!

                    Here is what I have been replying to…

                    deteego
                    Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:22 pm | Permalink | Reply
                    “Most people are not that close, nor have copper in anything but degraded states.
                    Can I have some evidence backing up this claim”?

                    Feel free to R E A D it… sigh! I even used your hero Malcolm, whom you “always” go into bat for…

                    Dear oh dear, trying to correspond rationally with the irrational is such a chore, perhaps I’d have more luck with the dog…? At least if you show him something actual he won’t say, no it’s not (yes he can talk…sigh) and argue for the sake of arguing, to try to prop up his own bruised ego and to demonstrate his political subserviency…!

                    • Posted 25/07/2011 at 6:38 pm | Permalink |

                      Have you ever heard the expression, “read the whole thread before posting” ?

                      • Posted 25/07/2011 at 7:07 pm | Permalink |

                        lol

                        That needs an acronym :)

                      • RS
                        Posted 25/07/2011 at 7:13 pm | Permalink |

                        Oh I read your comment, but deteego’s typically smart*rsed request, needed an answer, separately.

                        Got it now…?

                        I note you have conveniently ignored what I SAID…and tried to change the tack since, LOL…

                        Funny you guys ask, thinking you are oh so clever, but when an answer inevitably comes, you run or go all defensive…

                        In fact, two of you four amigos have even run away completely and refuse to correspond, but again, I’d get more sense from the dog anyway, so no harm done ;-)

          • Mick
            Posted 25/07/2011 at 6:28 pm | Permalink |

            LOL deteego everytime i see you name on one of these its all about you and you BS

        • Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:31 pm | Permalink |

          PING google.com.au (74.125.237.51) 56(84) bytes of data.
          — google.com.au ping statistics —
          10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9039ms
          rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 14.198/16.572/18.445/1.222 ms, pipe 2

          That’s iiNet “Naked”, not a particularly special plan (a tiny bit extra for Annex-M), single copper pair, Netcomm NB6 in bridge mode (years old, burned out it’s first set of power caps as they always do) and with a linux router in the middle running packet shaping to slow it down a fraction. Down attenuation is 32.5 dB and adsl2exchanges.com.au estimates that my cable run is about 2k into Granville telephone exchange (Western Sydney) and it tells me I should get a speed of 14k which is pretty close to accurate.

          If you knew anything about ADSL networks, you would know that making the copper longer does not reduce small-packet ping latency, it does reduce throughput.

          Back to the books, buddy.

      • deteego
        Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:25 pm | Permalink |

        Mind you the lower latency has nothing to do with the fact that they are using fiber, and more to do with NBNCo reconstructing the network topology

    10. Gav
      Posted 25/07/2011 at 3:56 pm | Permalink |

      The main thing I like about Exetel’s NBN plans are the unmetred uploads, 40Mbit/s upstream unmetred is crazy, the best thing about the NBN is you can run multiple RSP’s at the one house.

      Just imagine having 3 connections, the 20G 100/40 Exetel plan for $50 for uploading, some TPG plan with ridiculous amounts of quota for downloading, then a tiny quota Internode plan for gaming.

      Switch between them on the fly depending on what it is your doing, to get the best bang for your buck and performance. You don’t need your ‘useless’ intensive data traveling the best network, but it would be nice to have a connection with ‘the best network’ for when it comes in handy.

      The NBN enables this :)

      • toshP300
        Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:03 pm | Permalink |

        that’s $24 + $24 + $38 = $86 min. wholesale just for AVC….. even before provisioning CVC for your “unlimited” uploads and downloads.

        i can see a huge market for this “enabled use”…. NOT.

      • Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:52 pm | Permalink |

        Sure, the NBN enables it, but would anyone actually do this?? I mean apart from a house full of geeks, like I used to live in during uni?

    11. RS
      Posted 25/07/2011 at 4:07 pm | Permalink |

      Well deteego, common sense (sorry, not meaning that as a personal attack, since you may not have any) says more people are on slower speeds because they don’t live near an exchange than those who do… surely even a FUDster political sheep, not suggesting you are ;-) could work that out…!

      As for the 2nd part, “degraded”… well from your 2nd hero (Malcolm’s) mouth “In terms of the bulk of the brownfields, existing built-up areas in the cities, there are some areas where you would run fibre right out to the home, or certainly very close to the home. And they might be areas where…

      *the copper network is very old or where it’s very wet*.”

      But if you wish to argue over the fact that the actual word degradation wasn’t used, as opposed to “very old and very wet”, please do so, if it saves dat ego…

      Just as your clone alain did, when he asked for examples of Coalition support for people to MOVE if they can’t currently get decent comms. So I gave him one (ironically YOU – as you said this and admitted to supporting the Coalition).

      Of course lainy then wanted to argue over the letter s, as in supporterS multiple… OMFG…

    12. toshP300
      Posted 25/07/2011 at 5:02 pm | Permalink |

      i can’t believe this article got….

      comment #100

    13. RS
      Posted 25/07/2011 at 5:08 pm | Permalink |

      Well take your 15% of those comments away and it wouldn’t have…!

    14. Curt
      Posted 25/07/2011 at 7:29 pm | Permalink |

      Just thought I would add one point that has not been mentioned so far (just finished reading all comments) that while not guaranteed in a set time frame, will definitely happen before the network has been built:

      Fibre speed increases from upgrades in technology on each end of the fibre cables, which could turn that 12mbits to 120mbits, so 34.95 for 120mbits/10mbits say in 4-5 years looks much more appealing and for many here whose households will not be on NBN until then or later, realistic.

      It is mainly the discrepancy between each person’s broadband connections that makes the current broadband connection options much worse than an alternative NBN option.

      For example I live in a regional town about 250km road distance north of Adelaide and 1500m line of site from exchange, I get an ADSL1 RIM connection @ 4.8/0.384Mbits, our town has many RIM’s and a ADSL2+ exchange provided by Internode and one from Telstra and unless you live in specific parts of town you cannot access it, also my ping to the Adelaide Internode IP address is 42-44ms.

      In comparison someone I know in another town 100km further from Adelaide has ADSL2+ from Internode, lives 1700m line of site from exchange and not on a RIM (only a few RIM’s in that town), has his line profile set to low latency and syncs at around 9.0/1.0Mbits and the ping from them to the Adelaide Internode IP address is 18ms.

      But I do think they should look into the POI as that will make smaller providers have to take lower profit margins or increase prices compared to the larger players, which will always keep them at a disadvantage with the exception of innovation that often (not always) happens more in smaller businesses.

    15. Comrade
      Posted 25/07/2011 at 10:57 pm | Permalink |

      None of these NBN costs are even competitive with the TPG ADSL2+ unlimited (incl phone line). What a total waste of $37-50 billion taxpayer dollars.

      • Merlin
        Posted 26/07/2011 at 11:55 am | Permalink |

        Uh… taxpayers aren’t spending any money to build the network. It’s funded through government issues bonds. Why not stop lying?

        • Comrade
          Posted 26/07/2011 at 11:02 pm | Permalink |

          Who guarantees the debt & pays the interest? The taxpayers.

          Who pays the over inflated NBN costs so the government can pay back the debt? The taxpayers.

        • alain
          Posted 27/07/2011 at 10:38 am | Permalink |

          @Merlin

          “It’s funded through government issues bonds.”

          What Government bonds, where is the link where you apply?

    16. David
      Posted 26/07/2011 at 8:26 am | Permalink |

      What I don’t understand is how will a customer be billed for thelephone calls, by the high data rate I guess it will just be included as data. and that sucks. then landline phone calls are not just timed but volumised.

      • PointZeroOne
        Posted 26/07/2011 at 9:22 am | Permalink |

        You have I think it was 6 ports in the box in your house that the fibre terminates at, one of these ports is dedicated voice. So you’ll be charged for calls normally

        • David
          Posted 26/07/2011 at 11:09 am | Permalink |

          Thanks, I was unsure on that.
          If a customer just wanted internet do they then pay line rental as before, bundles being very much the same as before. or can a customer select from a variety of products without having to take tem all.

          • alain
            Posted 26/07/2011 at 11:15 am | Permalink |

            No one knows, the NBN Co has not provided their own voice product yet, for what ever reason no one can answer they are still working on it after 12 months of the NBN rollout starting in Tasmania.

            I suspect it’s political more than technical.

    17. Matt
      Posted 26/07/2011 at 9:59 am | Permalink |

      “Undercutting Internode”
      As if offering same services cheaper that a [once] premium provider has some sort of negative connetation
      Internode fanboi.

    18. Ben
      Posted 26/07/2011 at 11:02 am | Permalink |

      Some inconsistencies in the article that need to be addressed:

      - Internode will charge $119.95 for a 100Mbps plan with 200GB of quota, where Exetel will only charge $89.50.

      Exetel are offering this service at $99.50, not $89.50.

      Then, you should factor in the full costs:

      Minimum 12 month cost for Exetel on the plan you specifically compare is $1294.
      Add in $10 of call credit/usage for each month and it becomes $1414.
      Minimum 12 month cost on the Internode plan is $1439.40 with the included call credit.

      Yes, you can’t take away that $10 credit from the internode service, but it is there. Comparing them like for like gives a total twelve month difference of $25.40, or $145.40 at the top end.

      Now compare their current ADSL2+ (Telstra DSLAM) offerings:
      Exetel – $49.50 bundled, 200GB.
      Internode – $119.95 + $5 for VOIP, 250GB.

      12 month difference of $975 including setup costs.

      Own DSLAM:
      Exetel – $39.50 bundled, 200GB.
      Internode – $49.95 + $5 for VOIP, 200GB.

      $185 difference.

      Sure, this changes across the various plans offered but I still cannot see how they are significantly undercutting in your comparisons. Neither provider is offering services at the level the NBN should have provided in the first place. I’m optimistic that it will get better, so we’ll see how it all pans out in the years ahead.

    19. alain
      Posted 26/07/2011 at 11:11 am | Permalink |

      “I’m optimistic that it will get better, so we’ll see how it all pans out in the years ahead.”

      That’s not what the respective CEO’s of Internode and Exetel have said in comments published with their plan releases, in fact they said it will get worse, but never mind blind optimism has always underpinned the NBN.

      • Dean
        Posted 26/07/2011 at 11:35 am | Permalink |

        And blind pessimism on the other side of the argument, so it all balances out in the end ;-)

      • Ben
        Posted 26/07/2011 at 11:40 am | Permalink |

        Blind optimism?

        I see the benefits to my organisation that the NBN will help alleviate (based on negotiations already underway), and I see the benefits to rural areas of the RBBP/NBN.

        I am neither here nor there about the NBN as a consumer, and have zero control over the pricing structure or architecture. The decision around the 121 POI’s appears to be a poor one, but I cannot change that. If I cannot, as an end-user, be optimistic that pricing will improve for retail services (they will be significantly better than all of our current IPMAN/GWIP links at work)… then I am left doing what, exactly?

        • David
          Posted 26/07/2011 at 3:53 pm | Permalink |

          Ben: “… then I am left doing what, exactly?”

          Stewing like the rest of us. most likely.

          Alain “No one knows, the NBN Co has not provided their own voice product yet, for what ever reason no one can answer they are still working on it after 12 months of the NBN rollout starting in Tasmania.

          I suspect it’s political more than technical.”

          The waiting is the worst, Technology offers the best if it is utilised properly, and the worst if has not been utilised or implemented properly.

          Perhaps you could look at Tasmania where they conducted the trial as a guide. but volume patronage will effect the products on offer. So its wait and see, if your replys are any guide.




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      Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has published an extensive article arguing that the Federal Government needed to do a better job of connecting with Australians via digital channels and that public sector IT projects needn’t cost the huge amounts that some have in the past.

    • NZ Govt pushes hard into cloud zealand

      New Zealand’s national Government announced a whole of government contract this morning for what it terms ‘Office Productivity as a Service’ services. This includes email and calendaring services, as well as file-sharing, mobility, instant messaging and collaboration services. The contract complements two existing contracts — Desktop as a Service and Enterprise Content Management as a Service.

    • CommBank reveals Harte’s replacement whiteing

      The Commonwealth Bank of Australia has promoted an internal executive who joined the bank in September after a lengthy career at petroleum giant VP and IT services group Accenture to replace its outgoing chief information officer Michael Harte, who announced in early May that he would leave the bank.

    • Jeff Smith quits Suncorp for IBM jeffsmith4

      Second-tier Australian bank and financial services group Suncorp today announced that its long-serving top technology executive Jeff Smith would leave to take up a senior role with IBM in the United States, in an announcement which marks the end of an era for the nation’s banking IT sector.

    • Small business missing the mobile, social, cloud revolution iphone-stock

      Most companies that live and breathe the online revolution are not tech startups, but smart smaller firms that use online tools to run their core business better: to cut costs, reach customers and suppliers, innovate and get more control. Many others, however, are falling behind, according to a new Grattan Institute discussion paper.

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