Truth: Google Fiber shows how great a FTTP NBN could be


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  1. As big a cock-up as using different rail-gauges 160 odd years ago. Stupid never goes out of fashion.

  2. You are not really helping the debate and you are helping him get away with making false statements by putting articles like this behind a paywall where hardly anyone can see it.

  3. I don’t object to paywalls in general, but when something like this is in the national interest, it should be open to view by the general public.
    This stuff is too important to be hidden away Renai. You could set up a donation arrangement via PayPal or something.,

    • Donations are good, but are usually like a one off thing in these cases.
      Renai has to make a living too :P
      Who’s going to pay for all those chopper rides he takes to parliament house to watch senate enquires! :)

    • Set a threshold and if enough paying customers have paid to view the content then set it free?

    • I agree with the public interest argument, which is one of the reasons that news articles will always be free on Delimiter.

      But deeper analysis, background information and opinion is something different — it takes a substantial amount of work and thought. Hence, I have decided that it will be part of a subscription package.

      I’m sorry about this, but everyone has to make money somehow!

  4. Over the years, I have also seen Turnbull make similar false representations about American FTTP deployments. Seems they continue their naive & childlike behavior with their assertions and misrepresentations because the media are not doing their job.

    A survey is conducted annually by RVA LLC and a report is produced which can be purchased here (Cost: USD $2,950):

    Some facts and figures from the 2015 report.

    U.S. FTTH deployment began in 2011. During 2015, nearly 3 Million new homes were passed in the U.S.

    Currently a total of 26 million homes are passed and marketed in the U.S.

    Currently 12.3 million homes are connected with FTTH in the U.S. (50% take rate approximately)

    More than half of over 1,000 FTTH providers in North America expect to be offering a Gigabit within 5 years.

    Regional Bell operating companies (RBOC), Verizon having the greater market share by a very large margin, represent over 73% of all North American FTTH connections.

    FTTH growth is driven by consumer experience and word of mouth. FTTH consumers report higher over 50% higher satisfaction with fiber than with DSL or cable. Faster speeds and reliability of service drive consumer satisfaction.

    Leave your money on the fridge!

  5. Arguably Google Fibre does not show ‘how great a FTTP NBN could be’. This is not truth.

    Google fibre & NBN are setup to do fairly different things (and in the event, are delivering different outcomes). With Google fibre, Google is the overall provider and can control the overall experience. With NBN, they build the last mile and pretty much leave everything else up to an ISP. NBN can do everything perfectly, but bad work on the ISP part can send everything south. Trying to compare the two as an overall service doesn’t make sense.

    At an outcome level it’s much more interesting. Google Fibre has been about showing what is possible and help improve competition. Arguably NBN is helping to demolish competition. Without a competitive marketplace, where will the providers who sell 1G services come from?

    • “With NBN, they build the last mile and pretty much leave everything else up to an ISP.”

      OK, we’ll accept the “mostly truth” of the claim. OTOH, even with FTTH (which I enjoy) it is perfectly possible for the ISP to totally wreck the pleasure. I will also go so far as to say we should be comparing Google with (why not?) Telstra.

      Now don’t get me wrong. I absolutely enjoy sledging Telstra, they deserve it, like Microsoft. But Google? Yes indeed Google Fiber is about possibilities. But at what cost? Privacy is always on the agenda when dicussing Google. How does Google compare to Telstra in Consumer Rights? Just for example, which of the two has the greatest range of routers for their clients? Which of those routers are actually Not Locked?

      And how much competition? If Google is the ISP, how much competition can there be? But at least Google is competing against companies like Verizon. Sort of like TPG competing against Telstra/NBNCo?

  6. > He is wrong in his claim that Google Fiber shows that Australians do not yet want and wouldn’t use gigabit broadband speeds.

    NBNCo have made 1Gbps plans available to RSPs since December 2013, but not a single RSP is offering those plans. In fact 100Mbps is the fastest service that can be ordered. One would assume that if demand existed for 1Gbps plans that RSPs would be willing to sell the product, especially as the first RSP to offer 1Gbps would gain a significant first mover advantage.

    > He is wrong in his claim that the NBN company was set up as an enterprise required to make money, rather than as a ‘public service’.

    Umm… I thought that NBN was setup by Labor to deliver a 7% ROI so that it could be an off budget government enterprise and be privatised once the risky part of the build was complete. This is also the reason that Labor planned for a steep rise in ARPU to over $100/month and that was before the significant rise in cost.

    > And he is wrong in his claim that the NBN can best meet the needs of the Australian public by using a different broadband technology in each location that it is rolled out.

    First you have to define the needs of the Australian people. If we base it on Labor’s predictions in the NBNCo Corporate Plan then it is 50% on 12Mbps and less than 1% on 1Gbps in 2026. If you base it on current take-up figures of 79% on 25Mbps or slower then it almost certain that FTTN & HFC will meet the requirements of the majority of Australians.

    > To most Australian technologists, the fact that the chief executive of the NBN company is wrong on all these matters is rather obvious; even self-evident. Morrow’s statements on these matters over the past several days have already been laughed off by many as ridiculous.

    Actually no it is not. What is clearly evident is a very small minority have a self interest in high speed broadband but are either not prepared to pay the true cost or expect others to accept a sub-standard service to subsidise their own connection. So far beyond a single article in the Australian titled ‘Low-income users denied NBN benefits’ I have seen zero other reporting. If the NBN is being built as a public service, then it’s value should be judged in terms of the low-income users.

    • NBNCo have made 1Gbps plans available to RSPs since December 2013, but not a single RSP is offering those plans.


      They offer a 1000/400, you just can’t do anything with it.

      Umm… I thought that NBN was setup by Labor to deliver a 7% ROI

      Yes, but as Renai pointed out, the NBN wasn’t setup for that purpose, it was setup to put in the infrastructure that Telstra should have been doing the whole time. Mr Morrow only talks about it making money now (which it’s doing terribly at thanks to the MtM),

      First you have to define the needs of the Australian people.

      There would probably be as many usage profiles as there are people, but even if they do need 100Mbps, there are a lot of cases/tech where they are unable to get that speed (satellite for instance, or at the tail end of a node run).

      Actually no it is not.

      Yeah, it’s pretty obvious your not a technologists Mathew :o)

      If you read a bit more widely, you’d know Renai is correct.

      • > Yeah…nah.

        Looks like another part of the website that is out of date. I’m surprised that you aren’t aware of SkyMesh offering 100/100Mbps plans which utilise the 250/100Mbps speed tier.

        > There would probably be as many usage profiles as there are people

        The argument I hear put forward is that the internet should be considered a basic utility like water & electricity. If that is the case then it should be easy to define a set of activities that are considered a minimum standard. If you read the 2010 NBNCo Corporate Plan it neatly outlines the required throughput for various activities and almost all require a minimum of 100Mbps.

        > Yeah, it’s pretty obvious your not a technologists Mathew :o)

        Yet again wrong.

        When Labor hastily announced 1Gbps FTTP plans just prior to the 2010 election in response to Google Fibre, I suggested that the country would be better off paying Google $20 billion to build a national network than continue with Labor’s floundering implementation. Google fibre being 1/1Gbps symmetric direct fibre is technically superior to Labor’s FTTP network, and easier to upgrade. Instead of seeing average speeds on the NBN drop as more people come online, speeds would be sitting at 1/1Gbps.

          • So you can only be considered a ‘technologist’ if you happen to publish opinion pieces? I had inferred you were of the opinion I didn’t have a background in technology.

            I see that you’ve failed to rebut any of my arguments.

          • I see that you’ve failed to rebut any of my arguments.

            I see you like making stuff up to suit your story. Shame the facts aren’t actually on your side.

      • “They offer a 1000/400, you just can’t do anything with it.”
        Not sure what you mean here. Grubbing around on their rather unintuitive website, at (the head-board for the section), they say “… peak wholesale downstream speeds ranging from 12 Mbps up to 1 Gbps and upload speeds ranging from 1 Mbps to 400 Mbps, depending on the delivery technology utilised.” with the usual disclaimer about needing a RSP to supply it.

        I can well believe most ISPs wouldn’t bother, leaving only TPG/Telstra/{isn’t there another one?} to suck your cash-flow.

        I actually can see a use for that speed/capacity, but the atmosphere’s pretty rarified up there.

      • -It’s Star Wars and Turned-shy-bull wins in every scenario,………………………………….NNNNNNNnot!

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