Fifield says Shorten’s FTTP NBN promise is “flaky”, uncosted

144

news Communications Minister Mitch Fifield has labelled a pledge by Bill Shorten to bring a “greater role” for Fibre to the Premises technology in the NBN as “flaky”, saying the Opposition Leader did not specify exactly what the promise would cost and what it meant.

Speaking to reporters in Gosford, Shorten this week said Labor would make sure that there would be a “greater role” for Fibre to the Premises technology in the National Broadband Network if it won the upcoming Federal Election. However, the Opposition Leader also intimated Labor wouldn’t be able to reverse the changes Malcolm Turnbull has made to the project.

“We believe fundamentally there should be a greater role for fibre to the premises as opposed to just the second-rate fibre-to-the-node,” Shorten said. “What we won’t do is pretend you can start everything again and we’ll look at what the Turnbull Government’s done and see how we can improve upon that.”

In a statement responding to Shorten’s words, Fifield said Shorten had “stumbled” as he tried to explain Labor’s rival NBN vision.

“Labor needs to release its NBN policy and reveal what its flaky “more fibre” promise actually means and costs,” the Liberal Senator said. “Based on the NBN Corporate Plan, reverting to an all-fibre build to completion would cost around $30 billion more and take six to eight years longer than the current NBN rollout.”

Fifield said that under Labor, the NBN company had missed “every single rollout target” and that by the time the Coalition took power in 2013, the NBN was one million premises short of its 2010 rollout forecast.

“After three years of construction work, the rollout was already two years behind,” Fifield said. “Labor spent $6 billion to reach less than 3 percent of premises.”
 
“In comparison, NBN has connected more than 50,000 users in the last six weeks. It took Labor three years to connect 51,000 premises (2010-2013). As of 3 March 2016 there have been 1.86 million premises passed by the NBN and more than 851,000 active connections.”
 
Fifield pointed out that Labor’s pledge to bring more FTTP to the NBN had led the Financial Review newspaper to state:

“A lack of detail bedevilled the NBN under Labor. The fact the party doesn’t want to give any details about its new plan – or more accurately, a reinstatement of the old NBN – or talk about the cost, makes this policy look like the last – an expensive joke.”

“After two years in Opposition, Bill Shorten clearly hasn’t learnt any lessons from his time as a Minister in the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd Government,” said Fifield.

Image credit: Office of Mitch Fifield

144 COMMENTS

    • If there’s a bunch of clowns on both sides we should vote for copper internet then?

      • Unfortunately at this moment in time you will still be voting for copper regardless of if you go major left or right. The greens, future party and TLC support FTTP as far as im aware… good thing they’re about to make minor / micro parties irrelevant aye…

        • Only if people choose not to preference them, which would be much easier to do.

          If the system remains as is, next time the majors preference whispering could give us nothing but Bob Days.

        • All we do know is that under a Labor government there will be more fibre and that’s a good thing. Labor started if off and I would like to see Labor finish it.

          • Heh… this is pretty much the whole Medibank to Medicare shenanigans all over again.

            For folks who’ve forgotten their recent history todays private health insurance known as Medibank Private was originally conceived as the Labor’s first attempt at universal health care as plain old Medibank. The Libs at the time watered it down and split it to the Medibank Public and a “premium” Medibank Private which you had to pay but where people where incentivised to join it via discounts and so forth and since there was a bigger take up for the “private” version they declared the “public” version was no longer needed and scrapped it.

            Lucky for us Labor got voted back in and this time re-did everything from scratch as Medicare and made sure it stuck.

        • Labor is only barely a Left party, they are very much centrist, with some Left and some Right leanings. Greens are actually Left.

          • Greens are actually very rightwing and conservative, their cooperation with the abbott Opposition and govt and now Turnbull govt shows that. Because of the Greens we have offshore detention but no ETS. Frauds.

  1. “Labor needs to release its NBN policy and reveal what its flaky “more fibre” promise actually means and costs,”

    What … like the Coalition did Fifield? We all know how “fully costed and funded” turned out for the Coalition. I didn’t see $56 billion in there anywhere at the time.

    Pot … meet kettle.

    • Well at least time Mitch (the right honour-babble member) is working in his area of expertise, if he doesn’t recognise “flaky and uncosted” then nobody should!
      This is exactly what you can expect when you corrupt the idea of democracy (which is literally meant to be a vote an idea) and replace with a media-circus driven personal popularity contest with results determined by who can get the most corporate money for lies masquerading as advertising in that self-same media (what we’ve corrupted our system into being.)

    • Yes, remember Turnbull’s claim of a ‘fully costed’ policy? They worked out the ‘cost’ of FTTN by taking the cost of FTTP and dividing by four. Literally. The interesting thing is, the LNP have heavily criticised NBN Co’s costings under Labor, claiming the cost of FTTP was closer to 80 or $100bn prior to the last election, yet the cost of FTTN in their own policy was predicated on NBN Co’s FTTP costings. Cherry picking at its best.

      The fact is, the LNP went into the last election not only claiming that the NBN would cost $29.5bn under them, but that *if* it cost more, they would somehow fund it through private investment, because they were committed to no more than $29.5bn in costs incurred to the government. But where would such investment come from with official ROI now at 3%, and the reality being more like a negative figure (because that 3% still required similar if slightly slower take up rates, it just allowed for lower ARPU because the high revenue plans wouldn’t even exist. It didn’t account for large sections of the market simply going to another provider, which is happening with TPG, which was entirely predictable and predicted. It didn’t account for massive reductions in ARPU because not only would the highest revenue plans not be available, even the mid range will be unattainable to vast numbers of people on FTTN (and probably HFC, too) – people will drop their plans down to what is actually achievable, so 25mbps plans for most.

      So the LNP went into the last election with a rubbery policy full of holes and inconsistencies, based on unsupportable numbers built on whim, wishes and unicorns. This is despite NBN Co’s business plans being published annually and quarterly reports available to the Opposition. Labor aren’t committing until they’ve actually done a proper audit and can fully appreciate the situation for what it is, because they don’t know what is going on inside NBN Co because they aren’t publishing anything and they are actively defying the Senate in refusing to release details.

      So what, Minister, would you have them do, as a responsible Opposition not in possession of all the facts? What, AFR, would you propose? ‘Cause I don’t see Labor having a lot of options here.

      • Here’s the fun part…

        Has there actually been any point in time where the Coalition actually put out any figures to substantiate their ever rising “estimates” of the supposed blow-outs of the Labor plan pre election?

        I found it really most amusing when I jokingly called they would just keep exaggerating the supposed blow outs to the cost to 100 billion when they started that inflation tactic.

        And again not once did I ever see them get called out to give actual concrete figures on their guesstimates of inflation amongst the media who kept spouting this stuff repeatedly =P

        Meanwhile here’s actual internal leaked documents from the company itself on cost-blow outs… yup nothing to see here guys!

        • Has there actually been any point in time where the Coalition actually put out any figures to substantiate their ever rising “estimates” of the supposed blow-outs of the Labor plan pre election?

          No.

          There has been some analysis from Mark Gregory (amongst others):

          http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2015/3/6/technology/mumbo-jumbo-accounting-clouds-nbn-rollout-cost

          But without the LPA releasing the actual data, it makes it a lot easier for them to refute the analysis politically. Any time you see them mention CiC, you know they are raising the stakes from “a bit of political gamesmanship” to “big, fat, porky pie”…

  2. I just want to say, Coalition claimed “Fully costed and ready to go” (something like that) at 2013 election. What did we get ? 2 years of slowed rollout. Man they love lying through their teeth, and it’s so blatantly obvious. I wonder if they realize that we know…

    • They said it, from memory, in January 2013, well before the election. Could be out a month or two, someone will correct me.

  3. “In comparison, NBN has connected more than 50,000 users in the last six weeks. It took Labor three years to connect 51,000 premises (2010-2013). As of 3 March 2016 there have been 1.86 million premises passed by the NBN and more than 851,000 active connections.”

    This is just infuriating and insulting the public.

    “It took Labor three years to connect 51k premises” – forgetting the fact there was no wholesale fibre network in 2010. It took ONLY YEARS to build a nation-wide fibre backbone network which could be used to deploy to houses. In Australia that’s a massive achievement – but Fifield distorts the achievement by ignoring the gargantuan effort of the NBNCo’s standing-start deployment. He used a premise count figure which encapsulated time in which premises were NEVER planned to be connected.

    The whole hypocrisy is amazing, demanding costed policies from the opposition when they blatantly lied about having a costed policy in order to achieve govt, and the hid behind ‘Well, we werent in government so we had no idea’ excuse. These guys are the lowest lying backstabbing scum of the earth. There must be something in law where we can take people such as Fifield to the High Court for knowingly misrepresenting numbers to the public.

    Or for sacking an entire board of people and making appointments to the government business entity that were a conflict of interests – such as the CFO of Telstra whom was, at the time of board appointment, Telstra’s representative in an $11 billion dollar contract negotiation, and whom was made NBN Co’s representative of the same contract negotiation later – hang on, what’s this about a conflict of interest? isn’t this ILLEGAL?

    • Its gotten to the point where I feel physically sick seeing articles like this. How can they look themselves in the mirror each morning and believe this crap, knowing full well how full of hypocrisy their statements are.

      Its one of the reasons I rarely comment these days.

      • They probably do stand in front of the mirror going over they’re BS again and again, trying to make themselves believe it’s true.

      • +1
        In so many ways we are heading to a bad place, I am glad I am pushing 70, I pity those under approx 50.
        I lived through the best years.
        It is now up to those that will be affected and P.S I disagree strongly with the voting reforms, I prefer democracy

    • I would have thought that deliberately destroying public infrastructure was akin to sabotage of the nations interests and a suitable charge of treason should apply.

    • What is even sadder is Labor seems content to do nothing about the lies and slander thrown at them. Why are they not telling the public that their facts and stats are cherry picking at best?

  4. Interesting use of the word “flaky”, it’s exactly how I would describe the coalition clowns “plan” when they revealed it in 2013. Three years later it can only be described as disastrous and flaky.

    • “Speaking of (Labor’s bedevilling) lack of detail,” has Mitch told us—

      (a) how many nodes will be required;
      (b) how much does each node cost to—
              (i) purchase;
             (ii) instal; and
            (iii) run
      and the IT cost of tying the MTMl together?

      The copper remediation costs are not known.

      • They did promise completed in 3 years for 29 billion, with no mention of HFC.

        3 years is almost up, new estimated completion is 2020, and currently doubled in price.

        Weren’t you complaining about the time frame and costs slipping with the ALP version at one stage?

      • (a) how many nodes will be required

        Apparently, Mr Morrow has said over 30,000 nodes (and ~350m of copper required per node).

  5. It’s becoming obvious with the abandonment , except in higher populated regional towns, of ANY fixed wireless NBN. and the congestion on that prized satellite, we isolated regional users are being delivered into the greedy arms of Telstra to do with as they please….What a license to print money for them!
    “A person like Turnbull/NBN. only comes along once in a lifetime!”

    • Yup sadly the bush is getting screwed.

      On the other hand like the Taswegians you keep voting the very same people doing it to you back into power so go figure. I’d say we told you so but MTM is too depressing atm to even bother.

      • Yup sadly the bush is getting screwed.

        Mostly because they keep voting those idiots in the National Party back in….you think they’d learn. I don’t feel sorry for them, because it self inflicted (I do feel sorry for the ones that didn’t vote them though).

          • Interestingly the Nats (AFAIK) were initially the ones who were FTTP supporters.

            But of course their larger partners soon told them to stop being so rational and definitely no further foresight was to ever be used.

          • Interestingly Labor were ardent supporters of FTTN and they changed their mind and if they keep any of the FTTN rollout going post a election win this year they have changed their mind again.

            They will in all probability change their mind about HFC and FTTB as well, and follow the Coalition MtM percentage mix on this exactly as the Coalition NBN Co planned.

            But that’s ok, because what the NAT’s did is ‘really really bad’ and should be condemned for eternity. lol

          • Der, you speak English yes?

            What the Nats did was good, they supported FTTP (even before Labor did, iirc – so good on ’em). What the Libs did was to support and roll out FRAUDBAND their term and that’s bad. Proven bad by $26,5B/4 year blowouts over and above what was promised (but very humorous – to call it fraudband and deride it then roll it out – lol).

            Regardless, the idiotic alain contradictions just keep flowing…

            When the other’s do it, they are changing their minds, and that’s bad. When alain’s master’s do it, it’s called revising and it’s quite ok…

            Just when we thought you couldn’t get sillier.

            Before roads there were no roads is still No1 though.

            You’re welcome.

          • ‘Reality,’
            Re Labor’s opinion on FTTN: time passes, so newer technologies become better.

            Re Labor “keeping the same opinion as before” on FTTB and HFC: at this late stage it would be disastrous for the whole NBN. You advocate even more chopping and changing to support the idea of “keeping the same opinion”? Tell it to your voters in Warringah and Wentworth.

            Labor never chopped and changed an existing rollout on the basis of irresponsible politics.

          • Martin H,

            Re Labor “keeping the same opinion as before” on FTTB and HFC:

            …….

            Bill Shorten this week said Labor would make sure that there would be a “greater role” for Fibre to the Premises technology in the National Broadband Network if it won the upcoming Federal Election.

            So Labor’s broad policy so far is there would be a greater role for FTTP except where it won’t be , so if we take out all the HFC and FTTB residences where all our higher density population live and where the highest ROI is it leaves where exactly for FTTP to have a ‘greater role’?

            That statement should truthfully say:

            Bill Shorten this week said Labor would make sure that there would be a “diminished role” for Fibre to the Premises technology

          • and…

            …”the details can come later”, so you said yesterday.

            Didn’t you?

            So why continue with this pointless BS, when you yourself agreed the details can come later?

            Oh that’s right, that was yesterday eh? Many, many ridiculous contradictions ago.

            Just add one more.

            You’re welcome.

          • @reality
            “Interestingly Labor were ardent supporters of FTTN and they changed their mind”

            True…just as our governments of the past changed their mind and decided on making roads with bitumen instead of the dirt they all favored prior to that.

          • @Rizz +1, thanks. This guy is all over the place as well as critiquing imaginary detail.

          • Martin you are welcome. I always feel for the rational such as yourself, trying to “genuinely and logically” correspond with the ideologically illogical who aren’t interested in actuality :(

            He has done it for years…

            Worst part is, pretty much every word he uttered in the past to bag FTTP, no longer applies to FTTN/MTM.

            In fact he readily contradicts himself with no shame, pretty much daily…

            Which brings me back to my view as yet uncontested with any facts, that the only reason anyone could promote such inferiority for Australia (especially following the disaster which is MTM – many $b’s and vast timetable blowouts) is…

            a) Political subservience
            b) Personal greed
            c) Both of the above

        • “I do feel sorry for the ones that didn’t vote them though”

          Thanks, no matter what we do here in Wagga Wagga, those barstards just keep getting re-elected. They could go on a killing spree and still get re-elected by the people in this town..

          So frustrating.

          • Apparently Barnaby is declaring himself the underdog, because Windsor is polling much better than him.

  6. God I hope they loose the election, I’m getting sick of watching the slow motion train wreck that they are turning Australia into…

    • +1

      If they haven’t done enough damage by now, another 3 years of this will be absolutely awful

      • sadly a lot of long term contracts have been signed :/ how much of it Labor can do anything with if they even win is somewhat debatable.

        • All they have to do is renegotiate them, just like TurnCoat did.

          It shouldnt be hard using the standard carrot and stick approach eg:

          NBN: Contractor, would you like some additional work?
          Contractor: yes please.
          NBN: You can have it if we can adjust your existing contract to phase out MtM and move back to FTTP
          Contractor: Will you help with retraining costs etc etc
          NBN: yes
          Contractor: where do I sign.

          Sorted.

          • Yep, Mal changed alot of contracts (despite saying he wouldn’t before the election) to suit his preferred MTMess.

          • problem is HFC is in the Telstra deal … the agreement to maintain and support cable TV for 10 years etc.

            There’s no way Labor will re-neg that simply because they know its gonna take 2+ years and fool us thrice isn’t going to be a valid excuse for that.

            Like you say though I do see FttN to FttP being a non-issue even re-doing the Current N areas since they’re small enough.

          • A labor NBN would be best not to touch the Telstra HFC at all, then they can avoid the you touched it you bought it clause and just simply overbuild it with FTTP.

            I’d also be putting the AG’s dept onto the deal and find a way to invalidate it due to the conflict of interest of all the ex Telstra execs and so on.

            I’d also be suing turncoat’s corrupt mates over the blatantly fraudulent reports they wrote for him- if they were successful I reckon it’s would serve as a really strong deterrent against people writing politically biased reports for future gov’s.

          • Supporting cable TV for 10 years isn’t that big a deal.

            a) lower contention issues as you move internet users off Cable Broadband.
            b) no need to upgrade gpon standard.
            c) number of subscribers dropping due to the Netflix effect.

            Without seeing the contract we don’t know they even need to offer internet via HFC. They can maintain it as a short term option until such time as alternative tech is ready and maintain to the bare minimum standard to keep cable TV running. Just like Telstra did with the copper network maintaining it to the bare minimum standard to keep phones running.

        • Actually the MTM (MIMA) contracts are quite flexible. There is no impediment to a full FTTP deployment under the same contract. Likewise with the revised Telsta Definitive Agreements, they allow for either FttN or FttP.
          There is no blocker in NBN’s current contracts to reverting back to full FttP. That’s one thing I will say for the current management, at least they have allowed for full flexibility in the access network technology.

          • They are flexible only to a point (or to be more accurate, the SoE is flexible). They need to decide on hardware and order that at some stage, at which point it becomes costly to switch, so it’ll come down to how far ahead they’ve ordered.

    • Me too Tinman_au,
      They are beyond disgusting, they don’t represent me or my country.
      I have my son and daughter (first time voter) ready to vote Labor back it and preference the Greens or Independents. And they came to that conclusion by their own observations.

      • Maybe on current performance and leadership rethink the Greens, appear to be Meg Lees clones

    • Tinman_au,

      God I hope they loose the election, I’m getting sick of watching the slow motion train wreck that they are turning Australia into…

      Come on you of all people shouldn’t be too harsh on Labor, they will get the NBN model right this time, promise.

    • Slow motion? No other government has so eagerly destroyed everything they’ve touched. Even Howards first term was a net positive.

      “Come on you of all people shouldn’t be too harsh on Labor, they will get the NBN model right this time, promise.”
      The difference is last time it was fine, this time they have to make do with what they’re given.

      • Well apart from selling the silverware…

        Or to be more specific over 2/3 of our gold reserves, at around US$300 per tonne. D’oh.

        Another fancy adult move, along with selling Telstra and then saying, look at all the money we have and how economically sound we are…

        But otherwise I’d agree, give me JWH any day over that Neanderthal Abbott. As for Mal, well, I think the jury’s still out on whether he plans to just not rock the boat ever or whether he wants to be voted in as PM and then do his stuff?

        Interesting though, if he does (and it look like he will) get back in, whether he’ll keep bowing to the far right, who having that taste of blood want it or whether he’ll have the balls to tell them to fuck off and offer up a more progressive approach?

        Interesting times.

        • Gee it’s a wonder the faithful lap dog didn’t jump on me..

          My faux pas US$300 per ounce (not per tonne) of course…

          They sold around 165 tonnes, I believe…

          But back to my faux pas, not even Abbott would have been silly enough to have sold it for $300 pt… lol

          Well unless Peta told him to, of course ;)

  7. ‘“Labor needs to release its NBN policy and reveal what its flaky “more fibre” promise actually means and costs,” the Liberal Senator said. “Based on the NBN Corporate Plan, reverting to an all-fibre build to completion would cost around $30 billion more and take six to eight years longer than the current NBN rollout.””
    Its sad that Fifield still doesn’t acknowledge that FTTP is much cheaper now, and also that NBN Co admitted they fudged the figures it has used for the FTTP rollout cost to make them look worse than they should be.
    The MTM is supposed to be about being technologically agnostic, and yet, at every chance, Turnbull, Fifield and NBN Co actively shoot down FTTP. They are seriously anti-FTTP. The sad thing is that that stance is politically driven, not driven by common sense. Its just stupid.

    • I don’t understand why in light of Morrow, Turnbull and SR all stating that Fibre is the end goal, that Labor aren’t using the FTTP figures from CP16 as the full cost of Turnbulls MTM.

  8. When the government going to release the whole current NBN plan without everything that might embarrass the LNP listed as CiC. Right now we don’t really know what the mess actually is that needs to be fix all we know is it is a clusterf$#k based on leaked documents.

  9. In other news; ALP spokesperson says “the sky is blue”, the LNP immediately issue a press release stating “the sky is not blue, it is in fact black and it’s all the ALP’s fault”!

  10. “A lack of detail bedevilled the NBN under Labor. The fact the party doesn’t want to give any details about its new plan – or more accurately, a reinstatement of the old NBN – or talk about the cost, makes this policy look like the last – an expensive joke.”

    Mitch seems to be getting a bit twitchy, this wasn’t a policy release from Shorten, it was an answer to a journalist question.

    • I think you will find it is Shorten that is twitchy, up till now the media have given Labor a dream run letting them get away with crap like we are the party of fibre, as the election looms they will be forced to come up with solutions not just the easy stuff like FTTP fan boy like MtM bashing.

      • @ alain,

        Thank you for again admitting MTM is a dog breakfast (FRAUDBAND even) and that the current mob have no idea how to fix it, so the other’s will be “forced to come up with solutions” to the “MTM delay and deficit crisis”

        • All Labor has to say is MORE FIBRE less copper and just about everyone on this blog will be happy. As a matter of fact they don’t have to say anything to me and they have my vote. When Labor was in government last time I was happy with their policies is was their in-fighting that turned people off.

          • You want to vote for a party with no NBN policy?

            So if Labor pull a swifty on you after a year plus review and say in 2017-2018 sorry FTTP is too expensive and slow to deploy and we are well behind already.

            We were well behind in 2013 and have no magic fix to the slow FTTP construction model from then so we are continuing on with FTTN, but we will be different to the Coalition MtM because we will chuck in a bit of random FTTdp just to show how different we are.

            You will be happy with that?

          • lol no NBN policy worked for LNP.

            Faster,sooner, cheaper …. fully costed (but we’re not gonna release details)!

          • @ alain,

            “So if Labor pull a swifty on you after a year plus review and say in 2017-2018 sorry FTTP is too expensive and slow to deploy and we are well behind already.”

            They will be criticsed and rightly so, for it. You know when politicians intentionally lie they should be held to account – “on all sides”. Gee what a revelation eh?

            But instead of asking what would we do in 2017-2018, why don’t you tell us now, what’s your excuse for contradictorily asking what we would do if a swifty was pulled, when you yourself not only readily accept, but excuse and even promote the blatant lies (swifty) which was pulled by the current government pre- Sept 2013.

            You know fully costed $29.5B plan/certain speeds to all by 2016/more transparency, claiming FTTP could cost $120B etc, etc

            You’re welcome.

          • Simon M,

            lol no NBN policy worked for LNP.

            They released their policy in April 2013, well before the election, so it is the exact opposite to what you said, it worked.

          • … worked?

            I thought broadband had no effect on elections?

            Oh that was your contradictory position at another narrative and after all it’s a woman’s prerogative eh?

            Regardless, saying the gov’s comms policy worked and then seeing it mire in some $26b/4 years blowout over the pre-election policy/promise and proving to be no cheaper and no faster (well not worth the trade off for complete inferiority anyway), I guess it depends on if you want the election to work for a particular political entity or if you want Australia’s comms to work.

            It seem you want the former and people such as me the latter….

            As such, you don’t feel as if the Coalition may have lied to us – YOU – and you don’t feel somewhat humiliated in being taken for a complete subservient fool?

            Gee if I were you I would feel betrayed, but then I have two eyes and can think for myself, so I can’t be you can I ;)

            You’re welcome.

          • @Rizz

            … worked?

            I suppose technically it’s “working”, even though it’s slower, longer and more expensive!

          • Yes Tinman, fraudband is working, exactly as we said fraudband would – hopelessly ;)

            And it’s certainly not working for me at all, as I “would have had FTTP” but don’t have FTTN, as yet…

            And I’m sure there are thousand and thousands of other Aussies, in the same boat… all proving MTM/fraudband a complete lie.

            I.e. not faster for all Aussies whatsoever…

      • For a start, any new subdivisions should be fibre by default. Installing copper is a political joke.

      • (like we are the party of fibre)
        I agree with you Reality they should come up with a catchy jingle like…
        Faster, Sooner Cheaper

        • No they won’t because FTTP is not Faster, Sooner, Cheaper.

          Let’s check, 51,000 connected between 2010-2013 , nope it isn’t.

      • @Reality

        I think you will find it is Shorten that is twitchy, up till now the media have given Labor a dream run letting them get away with crap like we are the party of fibre

        W.T.F? Your loosing it dude, Labor have always been the party of fibre after the Expert Panel advised such.

  11. Now, what was that again? *Cough*

    “Under the Coalition’s NBN all premises will have access to download speeds 25mbps to 100mbps by the end of 2016.”

    And may I add that construction was suppose to start in my area September 2013, the same month this mob was elected. They removed us from the rollout maps not long after and there’s been nothing since.

    Bring on that double dissolution election!

  12. and we’ll look at what the Turnbull Government’s done

    It’s in the half year reports, it’s in the NBN Co media releases, it’s in the CP16, it’s in the multitude of leaks being pumped out of the NBN Co like confetti!

    What do you mean ‘we’ll look at what the Turnbull Government’s done’, after nearly three years of the Coalition MtM you no have no idea what they have done?

    and see how we can improve upon that.”

    umm ok, so does that mean you do a one year plus review, CBA, SR or whatever then decide if you ‘can improve upon that’.

    Sounds like you have this NBN policy thing all sorted, way to go Labor.

    • “and we’ll look at what the Turnbull Government’s done”

      So, all the information about contracts entered into by them and all the data required to make a decision about how practical it will be to change the rollout are in the media releases and leaks? Could you point that out? I think there is a hell of a lot of data required to make that decision that is “commercial in confidence”

      “and see how we can improve upon that”
      All that has been done. It’s obvious the CBA and SR are bogus, reality has shown that. Improve on that is to roll as much of what should be rolled out as practical.

      “Sounds like you have this NBN policy thing all sorted, way to go Labor.”
      Well, given the lack of data, the alternative is to lie their asses off like Turnbull did for the 2013 election.

      • As a basic principle Labor have said we will have a higher FTTP component, yeah got that so as a basic principle state now that all FTTN rollouts will cease immediately they gain Government and all FTTN contracts re negotiated for FTTP.

        Not hard is it, the detail could come later, Labor obviously want to avoid the detail as long as possible, especially the how much longer this will take us and the extra funding bits.

        • “Labor obviously want to avoid the detail as long as possible”

          How can Labor give detail and costing on a project where all of the current commitments are redacted???

          For example, the Coalition constrained NBNCo has said that the current cost of FTTP is $4300/premise to roll out, even though that is vastly more than any other country spends on it.
          However, they will not release the details on how they arrived at that cost…!

          • I said the detail can come later, nothing stopping Labor saying they will roll out FTTP instead of FTTN irrespective of what their future NBN Co calculate FTTP CPP to be.

          • Don’t argue with pigeons Rizz, especially that one :o)

            He’ll either damn Labor for sticking with FttN or damn them for switching to FttP…in fact whatever they do he’ll cling to “his team”, regardless of how poorly they are running things.

          • Debating with Richard or Reality is like playing chess against a pigeon – they knock the pieces over, then strut around as if they have won.

        • Why should Labor say anything just to please you, you will vote for the Coalition regardless of what Labor say. Everyone knows Labor are PRO-fibre and for the majority 51%, that’s all they want to know.

    • After 3 years all they seem to have done is halt FTTP. FTTN seems to be a millstone around nbn(tm) with more issues than you can poke a stick at, HFC, ditto. All nbn(tm) and LNP crow about are the connection figures…and the vast vast majority of those are from the FTTP/FW/Sat service that was underway when the Fibs got in and installed their stooges on the board and management of nbn(tm)…3 wasted years, multi-billions of dollars down the drown, and why? For 3 simple words “Sooner, Faster, Cheaper”…pity whoever thought up that sound bite had no friggin clue what they were talking about.- but the kool aid drinkers are still hanging on the ideological coat tails, as if repeating the soundbite will force it to somehow conform to reality…

  13. It’s in the half year reports, it’s in the NBN Co media releases, it’s in the CP16, it’s in the multitude of leaks being pumped out of the NBN Co like confetti!

    LOL!

    Yeah, I’d expect you to think that’s all it would take to run a national infrastructure project, thanks for the Friday Funnies ;o)

    • What do you mean you can’t tell everything about a $50b+ project from a PowerPoint presentations with logos and pictures on it and some text?

      Leaks? What leaks? Liberals have said they don’t exist, can’t tell anything from something that doesn’t exist.

      • The leaks Labor constantly refer to in Parliament, now all of a sudden they don’t know what the Coalition are doing re the NBN.

        • “now all of a sudden they don’t know what the Coalition are doing re the NBN”

          So you think they should build a design based on a few leaks???
          Even though they don’t know what the Coalition are doing, they do know what they are NOT doing…

          • You are all skirting around the issue, Labor want to roll out FTTP instead of FTTN, so just say we will roll out FTTP instead of FTTN, simple unambiguous statement.

          • Fk off Alain, no one cares what you think, you are a partisan LibTroll and blatant hypocrite!

          • Today’s contradiction corner with alain…

            You said above “the detail can come later”, yet you continue to argue like an irrational child (surprise, surprise) that you want the details now…

            *golfclap*

        • That’s because the leaks and what the government are telling us contradicts each other.

          • What’s that got to do with Labor saying now: we will roll out FTTP instead of FTTN, simple unambiguous statement.

          • Reality, because Labor seems to realise that simple, unambiguous statements like “cheaper, faster, sooner” often fail and then come back to bite the politicians who say them in the arse.

          • “We are the party of fibre” is at least supported by history. They were the party to start rolling out 93% FTTP to Australia.

            But, your LibTroll mind can’t wrap your head around being critical of the party you vote for.

            I am critical of Labor, as I am critical of the LNP, you’re just critical of Labor because “reasons”. And everything the LNP do is perfect.

          • They were the party to start rolling out 93% FTTP to Australia.

            Start being the key word, more like start-stall-start-stall …, the clutch was never fully engaged.

            With a pitiful 51,000 premises connected between 2010-2013 can you actually measure that as a meaningful percentage of 93%?

          • Start being the optimum word…

            …not ride on the back of the hard work of the start-up, as the latest mob do and even then, with all the hard work done for them, while they roll out the supposed faster, cheaper and ergo easier FRAUDBAND, they still totally fuck it up.

            Mismanagement and incompetence in government/NBN unheard of.

            You’re welcome

          • @Reality

            What’s that got to do with Labor saying now: we will roll out FTTP instead of FTTN, simple unambiguous statement.

            Read what he said, which is that they will use “more” FttP, not “all” FttP.

            Stop acting like an idiot.

          • So Labor will support FTTN in that case, because if you don’t stop all FTTN rollouts and replace it with FTTP what else do you do?

        • @Reality
          The leaks Labor constantly refer to in Parliament, now all of a sudden they don’t know what the Coalition are doing re the NBN.

          If they leaked all the CiC stuff, sure, Labor could then plan around that. But you’re being an idiot and a tool if you want Labor to guarantee a plan based on whats been released so far.

          And lets face it, your asking them to make the same mistake Malcolm made, and were all seeing how that works currently (budget blowouts, targets missed by almost three times the size and completion date constantly moving off into the future (much like when the LPA say they’ll get the budget back to surplus).

          The LNP is a disaster for Australia.

  14. It’s Autumn, cherry picking season is over.
    “It took Labor three years to connect 51,000 premises (2010-2013). ”
    -and how many FTTN connections have been made? I seem to recall it being inappropriately bundled with FTTB figures, and the FTTN only worth around 20k connections… since 2013… utilising the backbone created under Labour…

    • Exactly what I was going to say. It’s about time they release the full detail: what is the detailed breakdown of 1.86M/851k serviceable/connected premises (FttP brown fields, FttP green fields, FttN, FttB, wireless, satellite)?
      Also important to note that in the ‘first 3 years’, NBN built most of the active/transit and wireless networks as well as all the planning and design for every FttP brown fields deployment to date. All the current model has managed after almost 3 years is to complete the FttP that was already in progress, get HFC as far as a trial, and only just started to scale up the FttN.

    • SBD,

      “It took Labor three years to connect 51,000 premises (2010-2013). ”
      -and how many FTTN connections have been made

      120,000 are ready for service as at February, they are averaging 8000 per week, this is from a product only launched five months ago.

      • Oh you mean, the “fully costed ready to roll $29.5B MTM plan, of 25mbps-50mbps to all Australians by 2016” (all on the back of the previous from scratch NBNCo).

        How’s that going? I can answer for you, it is now known as the (wait for it)…

        “MTM delay and deficit crisis™ ”

        I now await a childish and typically irrational contradiction based around the word revision, or derivatives thereof. Revisions which were described by alain himself as mismanagement and unacceptable, when Quigley and Co revised their rollout but to a much lesser degree, than the current management/gov have….

        err … about….. now.

        You’re welcome.

        • So if that figure includes a portion of FTTB so what? FTTN and FTTB are both Coalition MtM policy, so let’s assume the FTTN figure is 20K after five months and is accelerating, it is still better than 51,000 FTTP after three years.

        • Interesting you want to exclude MtM FTTB because it makes the Labor NBN Co FTTP figures look appalling bad, but the three year FTTP figures include the Labor NBN Co version of FTTB and that’s ok.

          • “51,000 FTTP after three years.”

            “Interesting you want to exclude MtM FTTB because it makes the Labor NBN Co FTTP figures look appalling bad”

            You continue to ignore the nature of the build at the time, which was that no premises were planned for that period because installing in premises without a backhaul cable running out to the Internet is useless. Off you go

          • Martin H,

            No one has said the backhaul deployment was a issue that caused the slow FTTP rollout, not the NBN Co at the time or Labor’s Conroy and Clare after they lost Government in 2013.

            The ‘backhaul issue’ being a key factor in the slow FTTP RFS figure is a figment of FTTP fans imagination frantically looking for excuses when faced with the accelerating FTTN RFS figures.

            It’s also a figment of their imagination that all backhaul requirements for the NBN stopped in September 2013 and no more backhaul new/expansion was required for the Coalition MtM rollout anytime since.

          • This responding to imaginary and demonstrably false points made, far beyond what was actually said by anyone, is something I can’t help as a non-psychologist. Get well soon. As for a tiny acceleration in RFS compared to what is ahead for the rollout, I will not comment on such a non-event within such a large project. Bye

          • This whole section of the comments is off-topic, by the way, but the delay in 2013 in connecting premises was just over three months, in a 10-year project, the causes of which are well-documented and have been done to death. Continuing to pick it apart and paint it as some kind of fiasco shows that you obviously have nothing more worthwhile to do with your weekend. Discuss something meaningful or go watch the footy. Ciao.

          • Indeed Martin H,

            Apparently it’s ok to compare a start up, with those who took over (using the supposed faster/cheaper network) from the start up management… I.e. they took over on the back of all the hard work done by the start-up management.

            BUT not factor any of this, into one’s comparisons?

            Bit like comparing FTTN and FTTP one on one, sans all all other details involved, to state FTTN is faster/cheaper…?

            It is either disingenuous, downright stupid or of course both ;)

  15. What a bunch of pig’s ass! The Libs are no better. Their FTTN or MTM is crap! I’d rather wait and have FTTP nationwide than have MTM. In the long run MTM will cost more to maintain.

  16. I live in a suburb not some far away place. And I can’t get any service to the place I rent. We have been told a 2 year wait. Well that’s not good enough in the 21st century. And they are behind rolling out the NBN service by 2 years, so if they get further behind so does my getting connected to the Internet. It’s a disgrace on all levels of governments considering nearly everything these days involves the Internet. Eg apply for jobs, study get the picture.

  17. So the fttn 5 times drop out isn’t flakey?.

    LNP proved to be the biggest con artists I have ever seen.
    Fifield you and your mob are the flakiest I have seen.

  18. Trolls who support the MTM should be confined to the slowest and have the most drop outs, only as a thanks to supporting fraudband.

  19. Hilarious pic. Bilbo Baggins and Samwise Gamgee journey to Middle Earth where they discover archaic communications technology.

  20. “Based on the NBN Corporate Plan, reverting to an all-fibre build to completion would cost around $30 billion more and take six to eight years longer than the current NBN rollout.”

    Which might be why Shorten specifically said they wouldn’t revert to an all-fiber build, dumbass.

    Having these lying twits in power makes my skin crawl.

    • Lies are being told, no doubt about that. In any case, the cost of an all-fibre build has been thrown wide open by new information documented in recent articles. Any claims of a figure as high as $30 billion have had the rug pulled out from under them. NBN cost per premises for FTTN is $2300 at the moment, but FTTP in New Zealand is down to $2900 with more savings on the way.

      Or should we start disputing the accuracy of Delimiter articles? :)

  21. From What I can gather about these “Fixed Wireless” towers in “selected” regional centres offering 25/5 mbs. they appear to be only useful for a kind of “entertainment value” operation. Is there any capability at those download / upload speeds to do medical consultation / real-time video link uploading capacity?
    Also, while those of us out in the real sticks have to do with erratic mobile broadband internet , where if it was any slower it would rust internet.

  22. With the current government (I use that term very loosely) being so secretive with anything to do with financials is it any wonder Shorten is not quoting number. It won’t be until they take over government that they will see the true numbers and I am betting it is going to be very unpleasant and a massive surprise. I think Labour are going to find an ungodly mess, massive hidden cost overruns and planning and building way, way behind schedule.
    As we would expect the LNP in opposition will be heavily criticizing the ALP for their own stuffups just like they have already been doing for the past 2.5 years.

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