Blatant hypocrisy: Victoria demands NBN “fair share”

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opinion Long-time NBN watchers will remember that the Coalition State Government in Victoria has had a schizophrenic history with Federal Labor’s National Broadband Network project.

In October 2010, before the state election in which the Coalition won power, then-Shadow ICT Minister Gordon Rich-Phillips said a Victorian Coalition government would work with the NBN and push to get the best deal for the initiative. His comments followed similar expressions of support by then-Opposition leader Ted Ballieu about the project when it was launched in April 2009. “High-speed broadband, infrastructure and jobs are critical to Victoria’s future and we support the fast-tracking of infrastructure initiatives,” Baillieu said at the time.

However, by December 2010 the tune had changed, with the state becoming the first (and only) in Australia to mandate the introduction of an ‘opt-in’ model to rolling out the network after the Coalition took power, in a move which many believed would dramatically slow down the rollout of the NBN in Victoria and add an incredible layer of bureaucratic red tape.

By June this year, Victoria’s support for the NBN had turned into hostile opposition, with the state filing a lengthy submission to a parliamentary inquiry on the matter. The state wrote:

“The increasingly apparent risk is that the Commonwealth could, over time, fully replicate a dysfunctional telecommunications market structure that has hindered investments in the current broadband market. This would be the result if it simply replaces Telstra’s market power with an NBN Co infrastructure monopoly with all the attendant inefficiencies and constraints on investment, innovation and future policy making.”

Furthermore, Victoria argued the NBN posed “substantial and serious risks” to the long-term development of competition in broadband markets, “potentially holding back future broadband investment, market development and innovation”.

All of this is why we consider it so incredible that Rich-Phillips has this week issued a media release calling on the Federal Government to give Victoria its “fair share” of NBN coverage, following the release of NBN Co’s 2012 rollout schedule. Said Rich-Phillips:

“The rollout plan shows that Victoria is being disadvantaged in the important early stages of the NBN rollout. According to the rollout schedule Victoria’s share of NBN construction activity as a proportion of its population will be the lowest of any State or Territory. Victoria has a 12 per cent share of national premises to be covered in the next 12 months, less than half our approximate 25 per cent share of the national population.”

“It is the Commonwealth Government’s responsibility to ensure that adequate broadband services are delivered to all Victorians,” Rich-Phillips added. “Victoria’s regions and outer metropolitan black spots need improved broadband services now. And the inadequate rollout will hold back Victoria’s innovative and research-focused industries and institutions.”

Ha! From our point of view, what has held back Victoria’s participation in the NBN most so far is not NBN Co’s rollout schedule, but rather the policies of the State Government itself.

It is incredibly hypocritical to be damning the entire NBN policy on the one hand, while on the other hand complaining bitterly that it’s not rolled out faster in your own state.

Now, this is an approach we’ve seen before before from some elements of the Coalition. Several months ago, Liberal MPs Rowan Ramsey and Steve Irons tabled questions in parliament asking why some of their constitutent towns weren’t receiving fibre or wireless broadband under the NBN. And similar attacks have come from Liberal MPs in Queensland.

An even more ridiculous example of the Coalition’s ‘have your cake and eat it too’ approach was found in the person of the then-Liberal Lord Mayor of Brisbane, Campbell Newman, who, as Communications Minister Stephen Conroy pointed out, had proposed his own fibre to the home scheme for the city. One wonders what Newman’s attitude to the NBN will be if he wins power as the next Queensland election.

Now, much of this is just politics — the Opposition opposing the Government any way it can — and much of it is based in the murky land of state politics — a less clear arena than Canberra. In particular, I can forgive the individual complaints of many MPs representing their electorates — this just represents poor party discipline.

However, the approach of the Victorian State Government to the NBN is nothing short of embarrassing.

I am appalled by the incredible hypocrisy demonstrated by Technology Minister Rich-Phillips to the NBN. It is simply not acceptable for Victoria to severely criticise the NBN on one hand, and then turn around and demand a greater share of the project’s spoils on the other. Either the state agrees that the NBN is a good policy — in which it is entitled to demand its portion of the spoils — or it should stick to its guns and continue to argue that Federal Labor’s pet telco project would create a “dysfunctional telecommunications market structure” in the state.

To do anything else is to fall victim to the pernicious idea that all politics is purely tactical — that no ideal or vision should survive beyond the limits of its political expediency. And that, for Western democracies … is a very dangerous idea indeed.

Image credit: Timo Balk, royalty free

152 COMMENTS

  1. “Dysfunctional telecommunications market structure” has more to do with the structural separation of Telstra than with building the NBN. While the two are tied together in the current deal, I understand supporting the NBN build but criticising the Telstra separation / replacement.

    The liberal position does make some sense – If you are going to spend my money to build something, I want in – even if I don’t think you should build it in the first place.

      • I agree with you Renai, as soon as I saw them say this I thought the same thing.

        I live in the inner suburbs of Melbourne and when the gov decided to make the NBN an ‘opt-in’ option, I put it down to them being a Coalition government and just trying to make things hard for the Federal Labor party. However, them coming out and saying that Victoria now has a smaller share of the current roll out schedule is just ridiculous.

        If they want faster, change the Opt-in to Opt-out and I’m sure NBNCo would see Victoria as a much better option for early roll out. As it stands now, we are the going to be the hardest state to get take-up due to this stupid piece of legislation.

        • “If they want faster, change the Opt-in to Opt-out and I’m sure NBNCo would see Victoria as a much better option for early roll out.”

          Really, has the NBN Co stated that as reason for curtailing rollout in Victoria – or did you just make it up?

          • It’s the opinion of one person on a discussion forum based on available information. This isn’t a court of law where every single piece of information must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt or it is inadmissable. You know this alain but it doesn’t suit your agenda.

            But let’s look at the facts before us…
            – Victoria is has an opt-in model introduced by an opposition state government
            – Victoria is getting the lowest share of the initial rollout

            Coincidence? Perhaps. But short of violently shaking the answer out of someone at the NBN Co it is likely we may never know. They would never admit to that publicly, but it seems a plausible explanation.

            It’s called speculation. Find a dictionary, look it up alain. You’re a clever boy.

          • Oh thought you would have something more substantial than guessing games, crystal ball gazing, and conspiracy theories, I guess not, end of.

          • @alain you don’t need absolute proof to form an opinion…

            which you have proven, literally thousands of times ;-)

          • oh I see, you have nothing either to underpin that ‘opinion’ – anyone else have nothing?

          • Dictionary is our friend.

            o·pin·ion
            1. A belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
            2. A personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

            Let’s take a closer look shall we.

            Now alain, please scroll up to the top of the page under the pretty picture. See the words in bold? I do. It says OPINION. Let’s read that again. OPINION. Ok, good.

            So what does this all mean I hear you ask? Well if we take into account the dictionary defintion of the word opinion, you will see that it is when someone forms a belief based on things which are insufficient to produce certainty. The key words to take away from this are “insufficient to produce certainty”.

            Now let’s apply what we have just learned to the topic of this article, shall we?

            So here we have a discussion forum intended to serve as a medium for people to offer up their opinions. We also have an article about a state government who on the one hand complains about the NBN to the point of putting in state based “opt in” legislation… who then complains about getting left out.

            Now without any concrete evidence, say from someone of sufficiently high enough authority within the NBN Co to come out with a prepared media statement, what we are naturally left with is grounds which are insufficient to produce complete certainty. Reworded, we simply do not (yet) know the true story behind what we see presented to us in this most wonderful written of articles. However, this does not proclude us from forming an OPINION (remember to differentiate this from the word FACT) on the circumstances presented.

            So, what are we left with after this quick lesson?

            Simon W’s orignal comment to which you took offence alain was directed at his OPINION that he believed, in which the NBN Co may find Victoria more attractive if the opt-in model was removed. I also offered an OPINION, that given the story before us, it is plausible that the relationship between the NBN Co and the State government may well be affected by the opt-in legislation introduced by that state government.

            Neither of these OPINIONS are incorrect. They are merely opinions alain. So before you accuse someone of “crystal ball gazing” and “conspiracy theories”, take a long hard look in the mirror at your own motivations and the information YOU use to form your very own opinion. I would be impressed if every thought that crossed your mind was based only on complete certainties.

          • wow…. you’re employing NightKhaos’ secret kungfu… the “3D defence” (dictionary definition defence)… most impressive… must also be getting desperate… i hope NK doesn’t get upset at you borrowing trademark tactics from his playbook ;)

          • yes the old pro nbn ddd (dictionary, definition, defence).

            opposed of course to the anti-nbn ddd (der, dum and doh)

          • @Trittium

            ok we can waffle on with unsubstantiated theorems all day here is another, Victoria is the second last state alphabetically, just as valid as any other theory I guess.

          • which d was that from the anti-nbn arsenal alain?

            btw i gave you a like too, just because i’m a nice guy

            ;-)

          • alain, yes, NBNCo has stated repeatedly in media releases, at conferences and at Senate Committee hearings that it is being bombarded by me-first requests from local councils and others, and that, all other factors being equal, those who can facilitate the removal of local obstacles and delays will improve their ranking.

            Plainly the Victorian government’s mandatory opt-in requirement imposes far greater administrative delay before a given street can be started, compared to an opt-out arrangement.

            Therefore, yes, Victoria has placed itself in the category which NBNCo has publicly stated would be subject to delayed rollout.

          • So in the Senate estimates hearing the NBN Co categorically stated that opt-in policy unless removed was a defined obstacle that would delay a rollout?

            How did this delay the rollout in Brunswick, and how will it it delay the proposed rollout areas in Victoria – Bacchus Marsh, Ballarat Central, Melbourne City, Melton, South Morang and Tullamarine?

          • @alain,

            instead of asking the same pedantically lame question over and over (a question that is only being asked because you are entirely out of anything else…LOL) and of which the answer is obvious to everyone (but you)… why don’t you review this forum for the multitude of questions asked of you, typically sitting unanswered.

            all getting a bit much eh?

      • I dont think these clowns even realise that by complaining about the areas the NBN is rolling out to first means that they are effectively endorsing the NBN. They cant deny there is a benefit to having the NBN and a lack of it is a disadvantage. They want Victoria to benefit from the NBN as soon as possible… but of course it was Ted Ballieu who wanted opt-in becasue of something about mobile services in regional victoria??? http://www.zdnet.com.au/baillieu-airs-conditional-nbn-support-339307655.htm yeah wtf indeed.

    • But they’re actively trying to make it fail. They’re not just criticizing the project, they’re riling up voters and passing “opt-in” legislation that slows down the NBN’s progress. They never even bothered to ask what their voters want, or what would be best for their territory.

      • ” and passing “opt-in” legislation that slows down the NBN’s progress.”

        How does opt-in legislation slow down the NBN’s progress?

        ” They never even bothered to ask what their voters want,”

        You mean like Labor did with the NBN rollout?

        ” or what would be best for their territory.”

        Victoria is a state, Northern Territory and the ACT are territories.

    • “The liberal position does make some sense – If you are going to spend my money to build something, I want in – even if I don’t think you should build it in the first place. ”

      That’s fine but its ppl like you that don’t want it that are slowing it down…. SO you can wait till last

  2. I get a laugh out of these kinds of statements.

    The bottom line is that not everybody can be first. It just can’t happen. Some parts of the network which might be desirable to be built early on, often can’t be because other things – (transit networks, exchange remediation works, etc) – need to happen first.

    Looking specifically at Victoria – check these out:

    Ballarat was announced as one of the new sites, and we got this from the local press: “NBN: Ballarat Thrilled to Megabits”.

    http://www.thecourier.com.au/news/local/news/general/nbn-ballarat-thrilled-to-megabits/2328332.aspx

    Nothing more than a “yay, we won, we deserved it the most” statement.

    Looking to Victoria’s other two major regional cities, Geelong and Bendigo:

    Geelong: “Geelong Snubbed in NBN Rollout”

    http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2011/10/19/286211_news.html

    Bendigo: “Region Misses Out On NBN Construction Plan”

    http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/news/local/news/general/region-misses-out-on-nbn-construction-plan/2328136.aspx

    Both “boohoo, it should have been us first, we should be next” articles.

    Someone has to go first, someone has to go last. Get over it, Victorian Government.

    A major part of the deal between NBN and Telstra is that Telstra must perform appropriate remediation works in exchanges before NBN can move in and start works. Ultimately, the deal was only approved on Tuesday, so you can bet that the new early sites have already been identified as not needing the remediation works.

    It’s an immensely complicated project with many variables – people just need to be patient.

    • +1

      I think the thing these people are overlooking is these roll-out schedules will be updated every few months and more sites will be added. Certainly is funny how people cant seem to look beyond this time…

      Anyway more to come before the next election and if people are unhappy about missing out vote Green, Labor or something not coalition. It’s the only sure fire way to ensure your area gets it… the alternative of course is the coalitions FTTN patchwork plan which may or may not be upgraded to FTTH at an even later date.

      • Perhaps voters outside of tech geek tyre kicker forums like this or Whirlpool or ZDNet etc feel there are bigger priorities in their lives in determining their vote than having four points of simultaneous BB HD video in their home.

          • Well you would have no idea if posters complaining about the NBN are all Coalition voters or intend to vote that way in 2013, in the same way you could actually be support the NBN and still vote against a Gillard Government.

            The electorate is not moronically black and white as in NBN or not NBN in what motivates their voting decision as many in here would like it to be.

          • Well you would have no idea if posters complaining about the NBN are all Coalition voters or intend to vote that way in 2013

            I didn’t make a claim about coalition voters. I’m saying if people these various electorates feel strongly about getting the NBN then they should vote for anyone but the coalition and if they feel strongly about stopping it they should vote for the coalition. Once again not rocket science.

          • Well it depends what the ful Coaltion policy release is before the 2013 election, certain electorates may well be better off under Coalition policy, once again your black and white approach is is applied so if you want FTTH the only way you are going to get it is to vote Labor.

            Not correct.

          • It’s not my black and white approach. Just highlighting the options people have when considering the NBN. btw voting Labor is not the only way to get FTTH as I already pointed out you just have to not vote for the coalition if you want to guarantee it and this has nothing do with their policy. Since we still dont know what their patchwork will consist of by then we can only rely on the current governments policy.

          • So if you don’t know what it is why do you label it ‘patchwork’?

            Have you not being paying attention again?

            http://www.zdnet.com.au/turnbull-plans-faster-scaled-back-nbn-339318914.htm

            Turnbull said that he expected this to take around six months and result in a policy of a mix of fibre, copper and other technologies.

            So unless NBNco somehow magically manage to cover the 93% with fibre by 2013 we can still assume that the coaltion broadband policy will be a substandard patchwork plan policy. How much of their patchwork plan will be fibre is UNKNOWN as we dont know how much NBNco will eventually cover by 2013 regardless of the schedule. What we can count on however is NBNco continuing the rollout if the coaltion are NOT in power. If they are in power no one can say for sure if they will get fibre or not.

          • “we can still assume that the coaltion broadband policy will be a substandard patchwork plan policy.”

            I don’t agree, does that mean it is therfore not:

            1. substandard
            2. patchwork

          • you don’t agree but that’s just your opinion. and…

            according to you opinions aren’t good enough, so where is your proof, alain?

          • I don’t agree, does that mean it is therfore not:

            You dont agree that it is a substandard patchwork plan? Sorry but facts are facts, unless the coalition can come up with a more consistent plan that can guarantee consistent speeds instead of taking a chance with an expensive, redundant and very slow FTTN roll-out with an unknown mix of HFC, wireless & fibre then it will be nothing more than a substandard patchwork plan.

            btw you seem to be diverting the discussion again, why is that?

          • Sorry just saying opinion is a fact because it comes from you doesn’t work, and as for diverting the discussion I didn’t bring up Coalition policy as being ‘patchwork and substandard’ you did, unless you like to make grand biased agenda driven statements, tart it up as ‘fact’ preferably without any disagreement, sorry discussions in here don’t work like that.

          • well hc has told you exactly why, so it was your opportunity to prove him wrong…!

            oh… but you couldn’t, could you?

            instead you went off on a typical ad hominem rant, more commonly referred to as your “exit strategy”!

            ooh btw, you still didn’t answer my hfc question either (x3 now)? feel free to paraphrase, move the goal posts and give that crystal ball of your’s a buffing!

          • I didn’t bring up Coalition policy as being ‘patchwork and substandard’

            Actually you did. I described their plan as a patchwork but rather than sticking to the topic at hand and what was contained in my comment you instead chose to focus on this one irrelevant issue. btw it’s not just my opinion that their plan is a mess and a substandard patchwork, it is a fact. Get over it.

        • i’m sure they do…

          but this is a tech site, so if you don’t like it, why do you persist?

        • I have to admit… without you, tosh, and whatshisname these article comment threads would be about half as long.

        • And? There the ones with no vision we cant let them hold us back… sure us “Geeks” hold the nbn high but in no way means we have no other priorities for our vote fool…. DAM alain your so closed minded

          • i’m positive that, that is the entire reason for such comments from a small number of perpetual nay sayers, the likes of which you speak, pablosan2.

            if an article suggests any nbn negativity, they bombard with yeah, yeah, comments to everyone. agreeing and quoting.

            whereas when it’s a positive nbn article, they disaagree (without even considering validity) question every word, twist, turn, contort and attempt to deflect the positiveness.

            strange.

      • As I said elsewhere, N.Cable is ridiculously overpriced.

        Now, if it were possible to have cable speeds at DSL-like prices, that would be … wait…riiiight…

    • How can you people vote for the Liberal party? They lie and scream like children over carbon taxation schemes and act like childish hypocrites over government policies that benefit all Australians.

    • It will be mainly because Ballarat is getting it before them. There is a bigger Bendigo/Ballarat rivalry than Melbourne/Sydney.

  3. “It is simply not acceptable for Victoria to severely criticise the NBN on one hand, and then turn around and demand a greater share of the project’s spoils on the other. Either the state agrees that the NBN is a good policy — in which it is entitled to demand its portion of the spoils — or it should stick to its guns and continue to argue that Federal Labor’s pet telco project would create a “dysfunctional telecommunications market structure” in the state.”

    It can argue both, to say that it has to be black and white you either support it or you don’t without any conditions is trying to enforce a overly simplistic point of view.

    If it is Coalition policy not to support the NBN then take it a step further and say only Labor, Independents and Green seats should be on the NBN rollout schedule until Abbott and Turnbull unequivocally support the Labor NBN program.

  4. If you want the NBN in your area, vote for it. If you don’t, don’t. Simple as that.

    If they really think it’s such an expensive, inefficient white elephant, why on earth would they want it in their electorate? It completely invalidates their opposition to the project.

    • “If they really think it’s such an expensive, inefficient white elephant, why on earth would they want it in their electorate? ”

      They didn’t say that you did, this is what they actually said.

      ‘The increasingly apparent risk is that the Commonwealth could, over time, fully replicate a dysfunctional telecommunications market structure that has hindered investments in the current broadband market. This would be the result if it simply replaces Telstra’s market power with an NBN Co infrastructure monopoly with all the attendant inefficiencies and constraints on investment, innovation and future policy making.’

      Sounds 100% spot on to me.

      • No. They can’t divorce themselves from all previous criticism they have made of the NBN now that they have decided they want it after all.

      • Tony Abbott in interview with Alan Jones, 9 Feb 2011: “I think it’s going to be a colossal white elephant”

        http://www.liberal.org.au/Latest-News/2011/02/09/Tony-Abbott-interview-with-Alan-Jones.aspx

        Here’s another one for you.

        http://www.liberal.org.au/Latest-News/2010/08/17/Gillard-NBN-Pipedream-Exposed.aspx

        Have a read. Sure seems like the Liberal party is calling the NBN a white elephant to me.

        Again alain, Sathias is paraphrasing the Liberal party stance on the NBN policy based on well publicised previous comments. But you know this full well, you’re merely being facetious to undermine the valid points in other’s comments.

        They (the liberal party) have called it expensive. They (the liberal party) have called it inefficient. They (the liberal) have called it a white elephant. All these are facts.

        Now it’s time for them to make up their mind. Does the liberal party have a united front against the NBN (as their party policy and cabinet dictates) or are they going to grudginly accept the rollout and keep their traps shut?

        • It’s good old ‘paraphrasing’ getting a airing again, classic exit strategy, we are talking about what the Coalition Government in Victoria said and what was quoted above in the lead article by Renai, not what Abbott said.

          It’s ok for a state government political party and a Federal party to say different things about the NBN, it is also ok to state the disadvantages of having a second monopoly like Telstra and at the same time complain the rollout schedule is not enough for Victoria, they are not mutually exclusive because you and others here decide it is to suit your own agenda.

          • Ok, lets change tack then. The Victorian government can hardly expect to pass legislation with the specific purpose of making deploying the NBN harder (via opt-in) then complain that NBN don’t prioritize deploying it there at this early stage of the project.

            Right now, with all of the desperation to poke holes in the project by groups such as the Liberal party, the most important thing for NBN Co is to get runs on the board. The Victorian Liberals passed legislation making this harder in Victoria. Hence they shouldn’t complain when the NBN gets built elsewhere first.

            Also, why on earth would NBN Co prioritize Liberal seats when it is still their stated goal to stop the project? What right do the Libs have to demand their electorates have fibre put in now so when they get in and dump the project, their electorates are sweet while the electorates that voted for the project miss out? On what planet does that make sense?

          • @Sathias

            “The Victorian government can hardly expect to pass legislation with the specific purpose of making deploying the NBN harder (via opt-in)”

            Why does opt-in policy make the NBN harder to deploy?

            ” Hence they shouldn’t complain when the NBN gets built elsewhere first.”

            I have asked this before, and other than pulling out the well used conspiracy theory crystal ball has the NBN Co or even Conroy categorically stated that opt-in policy will cause lower prioritization of the NBN rollout schedule?

            Also what is the motivation behind ‘punishing’ Victorian held Federal Labor seats in with everyone else?

            “What right do the Libs have to demand their electorates have fibre put in now so when they get in and dump the project,”

            Hang on a sec, you are all over the place here, you have to distinguish between a state governed by Coalition Governments like in Victoria and NSW, and electorates both state and federal within those states that are a mix of Coalition, Independent, Labor and Green seats.

            Where are you going with all of that motivation complexity?

            “their electorates are sweet while the electorates that voted for the project miss out?”

            How do you determine if a electorate voted for the NBN project?

          • Huh? What exit strategy alain? I know you always seem to mention people using these exit strategies in posts, but the funny thing is saying “classic exit strategy” is in fact a rather clever way to redirect the topic and put the onus back on the other peson to defend themselves. It is rather clever alain, and I have to hand it to you, well played. But as smart you think you are, it won’t be working on me. I’m fully prepared to debate you until the sweet embrace of death takes me away from your hypocritical jibber jabber.

            Anyway, yes you’re quite right we are talking about the Coalition government in Victoria. Now you say…

            “It’s ok for a state government political party and a Federal party to say different things about the NBN”

            I think you’ll find however, this is very much far from the reality. The liberal party is a national organisation with party members at both state and federal level. They are one single organisation – which – if they had any brains, are intended to present a united front on certain issues (i.e. the NBN).

            Imagine the chaos that would result if each state government within the country offered up different policies and agendas on issues that were contrary to their federal government counterparts. The simple fact is there is no political organisation in its right mind that would allow it’s state government brances to oppose federal policies. This creates mass confusion in the public eye and severly undermines the authority of a political leader (such as Julia Gillard or Tony Abbott) and their ability to effectively lead a coherent political party.

            Thus the impression of a unified and strong political party is essential to any form of victory. It is for the same reasons that “rogue MPs” are pulled back into line quick smart when they release a statement which directly contradicts their party’s agenda.

            In essence, the statement that it is ok for state and federal political parties to say different things about the NBN is WRONG. Just plain wrong. If you truly believe that it is ok for political parties to internally contradict themselves bertween levels of government, then by all means keep on toeing the party line. You’re right at home in the liberal camp.

            Hopefully you’ll think twice next time before you write something so foolish.

          • @dean, being a glass half full type myself, best you can say about our friend (said with teeth gritted) is that he’s consistent!

          • he usually goes to another thread and starts some more straw man arguments and ignoring all points and never conceding when he is wrong.

            He of course blames his disappearance on all the totally irrational frothing at the mouth Pro-NBN fanboy tree-hugging communists that can’t see reason that only use exit strategies as arguments.

            Thing is, both alain and tosh have a very similar style. Vitriol, anger and absolutely no ability to admit mistakes or factual errors. We all make mistakes, but to admit to them appears completely impossible to these people.

            Indeed I suggest they can never actually admit to themselves there even was a mistake, it is usually just a comment taken out of context, or we are reading the wrong thing into a statement or there was some malicious way we twisted the words to make it sound like it was wrong – when the original statement was always 100% correct.

            You know, the last paragraph appears to be the same way alain is currently defending Teddy. Interesting.

          • @Trittium

            “Huh? What exit strategy alain?”

            Using paraphrasing as a excuse for deliberate misquoting, anyone can take the lazy option out when they misquote and say ‘oh it was just paraphrasing’ .

            “Anyway, yes you’re quite right we are talking about the Coalition government in Victoria. Now you say…”

            Good, which was the point I was making in the first place, at least you acknowledge that.

            “They are one single organisation – which – if they had any brains, are intended to present a united front on certain issues (i.e. the NBN).”

            So please outline where their respective statements about the NBN are in conflict with each other and are causing problems in voter perception on Coalition NBN policy?

          • alain, in your quest to always be right (sadly not even achieved once yet, imo) you are again coming across as either childishly pedantic, a complete dill or both.

            please continue

          • did you just copy/paste my consistent line about you alain?

            i’m flattered…NOT.

            ok if you want to get serious and stop the BS (instigated by you) start my answering the below unanswered (sigh) question please!

            here it is again…’you say people don’t need hfc

            so you agree hfc is not a viable nbn alternative/competitor and can be closed’…?

          • @Alain

            “So please outline where their respective statements about the NBN are in conflict with each other and are causing problems in voter perception on Coalition NBN policy?”

            Thanks for picking up on this alain. The trouble is, nowhere at all did I ever make reference to the any statements made by either the Federal liberal party of the Victorian liberal party. I made no reference to any particular policy statement from either body because I never intended to how their actual policies differed.

            The point I was making, which appears to have gone over the top of your head, was that your statement that it is ok for a state government party and a federal party to say different things about the NBN was completely and utterly wrong.

            Look man, there’s no shame in admitting you were wrong about a statement which has not really much to do about the NBN itself. I merely picked on that statement of yours to try and shed some light on how, even you, can be wrong once in a while. Be a man, just fess up.

            Anyway, I clearly outlined my points which substantiated my argument in the OP, but you appear to have conveniently forgot to quote the rest of the post.

            In closing, let me answer your question with a question.

            If you think it is ok for a state political party and a federal political party to say different things about the NBN, well then why don’t you show me the evidence you used to form this opinion of yours? Oh, or is it all crystal ball gazing and conspiracy theories? How interesting…

          • @Trittium

            Yes yes thank you for all of that diversionary waffle.

            This is the statement you made:

            “They are one single organisation – which – if they had any brains, are intended to present a united front on certain issues (i.e. the NBN).”

            I repeat in what way is the one single organisation NOT presenting a united front in your eyes, it’s a simple question?

          • Lol alain, are you forgetting what article you are commenting on here?

            The entire article Renai wrote is about the liberal party (between Victorian state government and federal) NOT presenting a united front on the issue of the NBN. It’s about their hypocricy regarding the whole issue. Please read the article title.

            This very article shows how that despite not wanting the NBN, the Victorian government is having a whinge about why they are getting left out. So which is it for them. Do they want it or do they not want it?

            There is your answer. If you really need further clarification for your incessant pedantic arguments, please consult the article at the top of the page.

            Boy that was easy, actually answering a direct question. You should try it sometime!

            (ps. did you even read the original article before asking me such a silly question?)

  5. There is a lot to complain about when it comes to the handling of the NBN, but in this case the Victorian government put party politics ahead of the interests of their own people.

    Maybe for once they should just man up and clam up.

      • allegedly: ““The rollout plan shows that Victoria is being disadvantaged in the important early stages of the NBN rollout. According to the rollout schedule Victoria’s share of NBN construction activity as a proportion of its population will be the lowest of any State or Territory. Victoria has a 12 per cent share of national premises to be covered in the next 12 months, less than half our approximate 25 per cent share of the national population.[…] It is the Commonwealth Government’s responsibility to ensure that adequate broadband services are delivered to all Victorians,”

        its right there in black and white on the very page you are commenting on, alain.

        • Yes got all of that, and I repeat how does that effect Victorians in a detrimental way?

          Is that the same way residences in Melbourne were amongst the first to receive HFC BB and the majority it passed decided they didn’t need it, and still don’t?

          Perhaps it was the opt-in policy that caused all the problems!

          lol

          • you say people don’t need hfc

            so you agree hfc is not a viable nbn alternative/competitor and can be closed…?

          • Sadly you’ll never hear a response Pepe.

            Well picked up though, it never occurred to me that saying the majority of people didn’t want HFC when it passed their homes flies completely in the face of any and all arguments alain has made in favour of competing telecommunications networks in the past.

            +1 internets to you

          • Because the question has nothing to do with opt-in policy and the Victorian Government so called hypocrisy on the NBN, which is what this discussion is supposedly all about, it is the same old boring receptive tactic Pepe and his multitude of previously banned incarnations has used since Day 1 of posting in Delimiter and other tech discussion web sites.

            When the argument is not going the way you want it and the questions are getting too awkward turn 180 degrees and try and change the subject, and pretend any non answer even though it would only perpetuate the deliberate off topic trolling diversion is supposedly total validation of a win.

          • Rich-Phillips comment that the govt responsibility is to provide ‘adequate’ telco services to contituents. by not doing the NBN rollout in Victoria NOW the inference is that Victorians are left with an ‘inadequate’ service – as compared to those parts of Aus that have recieved NBN.

            i.e. Victoria is being treated as second class citizen.

            its his argument and i personally think its horseshit. evidently you do too. but the fact is it buts right up against the liberal notion that NBN is something we can easily do without, or at the very least dial back to something less ambitious/spending less.

            if its the former, then there is no reason to ask for expedited rollout in Vic – and hes being hypocritical. if its the latter i have to ask what his idea of ‘adequate’ services is. as you say Melbs has that 100mbit cable service; if that is considered inadequate mebbe hes thinking of the business Gbit services that NBN intend offering.

            either way hes a rather confused man.

    • the Victorian government put party politics ahead of the interests of their own people.

      So true. The big problem for Ted Baillieu is now he just looks like a hypocrite. I’m not surprised though, it was bound to happen sooner or later.

      • Well he doen’t ‘look like a hypocrite’ because you say he is, you are blatantly pro-NBN and any rational objective analysis on your part was null and void months ago.

        • Well he doen’t ‘look like a hypocrite’ because you say he is

          That’s right he doesn’t look like a hypocrite because I said he is. He IS a hypocrite because the evidence speaks for itself.

          you are blatantly pro-NBN and any rational objective analysis on your part was null and void months ago.

          you are blatantly anti-NBN and any rational objective analysis on your part was null and void months ago.

          Wow, see how much more sense it makes now?

      • hc the dooms dayers are looking sillier (if that is possible) by the day.

        they repeat white elephant (as instructed by their party) but now desperately try to find a way to escape from their vic “hypoctritical” colleagues, who demand their own white elephant, now…priceless!

        stand-by for more sh!ts and giggles

  6. I don’t understand his whinging, Victoria already has the fastest average internet speed of any Australian state, from what I understand you have;

    * N.Cable covering 3 large regional centers
    * Over hhalf of Telstra’s HFC network is in Melbourne
    * Point Cook (never said anything about price)
    * Huge portion of Telstra’s velocity estates are in VIC

    And combine this with the opt-in legislation… it’s no wonder VIC has a lower portion of homes being wired up.

    Furthermore remember ‘Melbourne City’ is being wired up, that is going to be a huge mess – NBNco will need to deal with ducts already overflowing with Cables, and then work out how they will get their cables to land on every floor of all the skyscrapers, remember this is FTTP – P is premise which includes business, not just residential…

    Victoria should be overjoyed that Melbourne will be the first CBD wired up with cheap, fast, affordable broadband – this may seriously improve their GSP.

    Imagine if NBNco gets cancelled, and the only CBD to actually have Fiber coverage is Melbourne?? If that isn’t a advantage over Sydney and others I don’t know what is…

          • @alain Because most people don’t have a choice. They must pay Telstra exorbitant fees to make phone calls and connect to the internet. Telstra’s profit goes to shareholders and executives, and not to their rotting network. With the NBN, all that money goes back into the network. There are no “shareholder dividends” to worry about, no “profit margins” to whine over.

            This is why history has shown governments are always more efficient at running infrastructure than private business.

          • @sonicmerlin

            “They must pay Telstra exorbitant fees to make phone calls and connect to the internet.”

            You don’t have to use Telstra retail pricing to make phone calls, and there is also VoIP, and all internet copper exchange connections comes under the jurisdiction of the ACCC on LSS and ULL pricing and access, that’s why Naked DSL plans are dirt cheap.

            “Telstra’s profit goes to shareholders and executives, and not to their rotting network.”

            I am not sure Telstra would classify wireless NextG and Telstra LTE and all of their Greenfield FTTH rollouts as a ‘rotting network’, but never mind it sounds good as a sound bite.

            “With the NBN, all that money goes back into the network.”

            What money, that is wholesale revenue from ISP’s is going back into the network?

            ” There are no “shareholder dividends” to worry about, no “profit margins” to whine over.”

            Except the 7% return on investment required, approved by Parliament before the NBN was allowed to go ahead you mean?

            “This is why history has shown governments are always more efficient at running infrastructure than private business. ”

            So everyone was deliriously happy with the PMG, Telecom and Telstra retail pricing before privatisation were they?

        • It’s actually more than 2MB upload, I think it’s like 120/10 or something

          http://speedtest.net/result/1295016201.png

          I do agree, the NBN is cheaper, but as much as I usually can’t disagree more with him – I agree with Tosh here, the taxpayer is somewhat funding the NBN, whereas N.Cable need to appese both shareholders and owners with a decent return.

          Don’t get me wrong I am 100% supportive of the NBN and even happy for it to be rolled out to ‘unprofitable’ rural areas, but I see no reason with them rolling out to areas that have fast alterlatives, even if they are not as cheap. It makes me wonder why they are rolling out to Ballarat given N.Cable exists there. That must annoy TransACT :)

          To me, $160 for 1TB of data at 120/10Mbps seems reasonable, personally looking at their plans I’d go for 100G+100G for $80 and throw the 100Mbps power pack in for $110.

          Here are the current stats I was looking at earlier btw;
          9.54Mbps Melbourne
          7.94Mbps Sydney
          7.87Mbps Brisbane
          6.39Mbps Adelaide
          3.22Mbps Canberra
          6.02Mbps Perth

          Also something interesting, Julia Gillard’s home suburb of Altona has the fastest internet in Australia due to HFC ranked at 38.28Mbps average – interesting given Labor are supportive of the NBN.

          • Not talking about about reasonability. Talking about $60 difference between two directly comparable services.

            N.Cable don’t have the market penetration to be able to do much better.

  7. “idea that all politics is purely tactical — that no ideal or vision should survive beyond the limits of its political expediency.”

    Personally, I can’t see that idea as being anything other than business as usual for the majority Australian politics. It’s sad.

  8. You know, it will be interesting to see what their reaction will be if in three months, when the next rollout update is issued, a whole bunch of Victorian sites are added.

    They’ll either claim it was their pressure that brought it about, or end up looking like whiny dicks.

  9. LABOR PLAN? DO NOT WANT. NBN? DO NOT WANT. FAST INTERNETS? DO NOT.. wait, what?

    HEY! Y U NO GIVE US INTERNETS? LABOR FAULT! HULK SMASH!

    The schizophrenic nature of the Coalition at state level appears to echo federal. So Victoria has gone from bitter opposition demanding it be “given” a larger chunk of the pie. And blaming everyone else for yet another about face.

    This, this is what we have to look forward to, post next election. Lowball politics based on angry ranting and zero substance.

    • “This, this is what we have to look forward to, post next election. Lowball politics based on angry ranting and zero substance. ”

      Which is why Labor will be rolled in 2013, but that’s not what you meant

      • LOL

        i hope there’s a falling out between Abbott and Turnbull, and Abbott appoints Barnaby Joyce the Minister of Communications just for the shits and giggles to piss off all the internet geeks on WP.

      • No, it wasn’t what I meant.

        Everbody is in a hurry to punish Gillard, and hasn’t stopped to question which is the lesser evil. A crazy woman, or a certifiable lunatic.

        Meanwhile, Liberals can’t decide what their policies are, because they are too busy be against anything Labor does. Unless it’s the NBN. Which they are against. But want more of it (in Victoria).

        If they are this disorganised and rudderless now, how are they going to fair in Government?

        Really wish they’d roll Abbott and bring back Turnbull. I don’t agree with Liberal broadband plans but at least he’s smarter than the alternative.

        • Julia Gillard is Bob Brown’s bitch.

          *rudderless*

          lol…. thank God the incoming Liberal Govt doesn’t include Kevin Rudd.

          • Well, it’s class all the way from tosh today. You can tell a lot about a person when sexist remarks flow out of them that easily.

          • interestingly tosh, when previously questioned, you have previously denied having any political bias and claimed you are simply anti-nbn because of other influences…

            after this, it proves i WAS absolutely right all along (which we all new but thanks for the smoking gun)…so with the truth now set in concrete for ALL to see…

            say as wish, as far as i’m concerned, because, you know i don’t like any of them/politicians (in fact the only two i have any time for at all is turnbull and rudd).

            as such, i will ‘never’ vote coalition while abbott is leader, simple as that. because he is imo, the most uncharismatic, negative and visionless leader ever. and I AM NOT ALONE…

            just look at the polls and labor are considered hopeless, gillard has no friends (apart from bob brown apparently) but yet even though the coalition are already celebrating victory because labor are at all time lows, abbott is still more disliked than he is liked and by quite a margin?

            what does that tell you (or rather what does that tell anyone who is willing to listen)?

            your above childish comment as a subservient abbott follower, i believe, typifies the abbott mentality.

            thank you.

          • Welcome to modern society. Compromising to make progress. Imagine that. The big question is can Tony Abbott do the same? Apparently not else he would be prime minister right now. Leaders should be diplomatic but we’ve not seen such a thing from him.

          • Well I agree with you, Gillard was better at negotiating her way into Government with the Independents than Abbott, but I don’t expect the 2013 election to be a hung Parliament outcome again with the exact equal number of seats across the two major parties.

            I

          • No it’s the theory of probability, the previously hung Parliament before 2010 was 1940.

    • Actually they’re acting *exactly* like little children. You see this all the time with neo cons here in America. There’s so much cognitive dissonance all you can do is shake your head and plod on. Except unlike you guys we only have 2 parties…

      • doesnt matter how many parties, both Parliament and Congress are kindergarten writ large. its a really depressing state of affairs.

        To my mind Tony Abbott is a republican in all but name and citizenship – he has directly copied R commentary and policies and adapted them to oz. not surprising really, them both being Conservative, but more than once recently ive said to myself “ive heard THAT one before, only it was from the OTHER side of the pacific…”.

        you a crooks and liars reader by chance?

  10. if victoria isnt last, someone else is. Rinse and repeat. Til its 100% coverage in the blink of an eye. Then everyone is connected at the same millisecond. Nobody can whinge. But it still wouldnt stop some people.

  11. Your point is completely fallicous, under the Liberals plan, almost all blackspots around Australia would be fixed in a single term of government

    The fact that the Liberal government is complaining against this further strengthens one of their criticisms of NBN, its taking a dog and a half years to complete, and so there are going to be areas without any broadband improvement for a significant amount of time

    Also you can’t really claim this is an issue with the state government, telecommunications infrastructure is owned by Telstra, and not by the state government, and the state government does not legally (or otherwise) have the same amount of muscle as the federal government

    Their criticism isn’t hypocritical at all, you just don’t properly understand their position

      • General knowledge update:

        Malcom Turnbull is not a MP in the Coalition Government of Victoria.

          • It makes all the difference, in case you missed what this discussion is all about I will remind you of the headline:

            “Blatant hypocrisy: Victoria demands NBN “fair share”

            So therefore Turnbull doesn’t have to speak up at all, giving your one sided biased and misleading Turnbull picture based forum thread a plug is one thing (I am sure the NBN converted appreciate the effort) but please try and least stay on topic when you do it.

            Go to it, get some Rich-Phillips pics and insert statements he never actually said and when called out excuse it as ‘paraphrasing’.

          • glad you now have awoken to what the topic actually is, thanks to being reminded by trittium.

            see you can learn…!

            so we have liberals and clayton liberals, is that what you are saying? and they can contradict each other (just as you do)…

            rofl.

          • It makes no difference both are Liberal party members. As a Victorian voter who should I believe and who should I listen to? Gordon who thinks the NBN is so great more Victorian sites should get it ASAP or Mal who thinks the NBN is a white elephant and should be “demolished”? Do you understand the hypocrisy of this party regarding the NBN yet? Too bad if you don’t. The picture is valid and their hypocrisy has been exposed. Thanks for stopping by.

          • How is it not hypocritical to say the NBN is “potentially holding back future broadband investment, market development and innovation.” And then to turn around and say the NBN is not rolling out to enough sites in your state: “The rollout plan shows that Victoria is being disadvantaged in the important early stages of the NBN rollout.”

            Both those statements were made by the Victorian Liberal government. Neither of the statements in quotes are paraphrasing — they’re direct quotes from the Victorian Liberal Party.

          • @HC

            “t makes no difference both are Liberal party members. As a Victorian voter who should I believe and who should I listen to?”

            Why do you care, you are a rabid pro-NBN campaigner, you couldn’t give a toss what the state or Federal Coalition say about the NBN that would in anyway influence your locked in myopic position.
            Labor could come out and say we miscalculated the NBN costing, it is actually going to be triple what we predicted, and take a decade longer to finish, you would just say that’s ok, it’s worth any price ‘cos I need my upload speed increased.

            ” Mal who thinks the NBN is a white elephant and should be “demolished”?”

            Where did Turnbull ever say he would demolish the NBN, that’s right he didn’t, he said the opposite in fact but you know that, but never let the facts get in the way of spouting emotive no fact BS eh?

            ” The picture is valid and their hypocrisy has been exposed.”

            No quite the opposite in fact.

            ” Thanks for stopping by.”

            My pleasure, I will let you get on with your picture pasting, misquoting, inaccurate, myopic pro-NBN propaganda campaign.

          • Where did Turnbull ever say he would demolish the NBN, that’s right he didn’t, he said the opposite in fact

            Well, he was told to demolish the NBN by his boss, but in such a conflicted party as the Liberal Party, doing the opposite of what your boss tells you is probably perfectly acceptable.

          • Why do you care, blah blah blah more piffle piffle waffle

            That’s right I don’t care, however we are trying to determine coalition policy on the NBN here, since we cant I can assume they are hypocrites until they clarify their position.

            Where did Turnbull ever say he would demolish the NBN

            Mr Rabbitt told him to “demolish” the NBN… he’s not doing a very good job of it though, maybe he hates Mr Rabbitt???

            No quite the opposite in fact.

            Sorry but the evidence speaks for itself. The Liberal party are hypocrites, if you can’t even recognise this it makes you an even bigger hypocrite.

            I will let you get on with your picture pasting

            Great. You are finally going to cease your incessant childish whining.

            http://i.imgur.com/sDJ89.jpg

          • @HC

            “Mr Rabbitt told him to “demolish” the NBN… he’s not doing a very good job of it though, maybe he hates Mr Rabbitt???”

            Oh the good old HC soft shoe shuffle, but that’s not what you said, you said Turnbull said it, he didn’t, in fact when Gillard came out and said that’s what the Coalition would do if they got into power Turnbull reiterated the point and said they would not demolish any NBN already built.

            So what you said was totally incorrect (again).

          • you said Turnbull said it

            Nope. I never said Turnbull said it. Please try to read and comprehend things correctly. I said Turnbull thinks it should be “demolished”. Note the quotation marks. They mean something. Everything he has said in the past points to that without him explicitly saying it. Thing is he has had to flip-flop on the issue due to the great progress NBNco have been making… Now you know why they are regarded as hypocrites. Glad we got that sorted…

            So what you said was totally incorrect (again).

            Nope. You just failed to understand the comment correctly. Thanks for stopping by.

          • Are you saying you think Turnbull doesn’t want to stop the NBN rollout? That you think Turnbull is acting directly against the orders of Abbott when he told Turnbull to “demolish” the NBN?

Comments are closed.