Turnbull’s NBN “hardly on target”, says Labor

By
Daniel Palmer
-
130

news The Australian Labor Party has criticised a Government statement saying NBN Co has “exceeded” its targets for the financial year 2016, suggesting that the national broadband network is actually “hardly on target”.

The statement’s “glowing interpretation” of the NBN results stands in “stark contrast to the real-world experiences of millions of Australians who continue to be denied access to high quality and affordable broadband,” Michelle Rowland, 
Shadow Minister For Communications, said in a statement.

Citing Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull’s 2013 pledge that all Australians would have access to the NBN by the end of 2016, Rowland said: “Having broken that promise, he is building a copper-based network replete with customer complaints and failed expectations.”

In areas where customers have only a fibre-to-the-node (FTTN) connection, she said issues such as “snail-like” peak Internet speeds, “regular” drop outs, and “buck-passing” between NBN and retail service providers are being experienced.

“For many Australians, the simple question of when they will have access to real high-speed broadband cannot be answered by this Government,” Rowland said.

To back up her statements, the Shadow Minister told of how, at a community forum in Rockhampton, Queensland, on Monday, Labor Leader Bill Shorten heard from a local resident who allegedly said he “enjoyed quicker Internet speeds in Cambodia than in his own home”.

“It’s little wonder that Australia dropped from 30th to 60th in the world for Internet speeds on Malcolm Turnbull’s watch,” Rowland said.

According to NBN Co, an average household has nine connected devices today and predictions are this will increase to 29 devices by 2020.

In response, the Shadow Minister said: “It beggars belief that such a lack of future-proofing in the choice of copper-based technology will be adequate for Australia’s needs.”

“Only Labor understands that real high-speed broadband is essential for jobs, for small businesses, world-class education and health care, and that this can only be achieved with a first-rate fibre NBN,” she concluded.

In its statement on targets, released yesterday, NBN Co said that in the financial year ending 30 June 2016, it had achieved 2.9 million premises ready for service and over a million users on the NBN network.

It also doubled the number of premises within the footprint of the NBN network and also doubled the number of end users, according to the firm’s figures.

Additionally, with 126% growth in the number of end users on the network, revenue was reported as climbing 157% to $421 million.

In response to the figures, Mitch Fifield, Minister for Communications, said the results are the “latest evidence of the benefits of the Coalition’s faster, more affordable NBN rollout”.

Image credit: Parliamentary Broadcasting

Related posts:

  1. Turnbull “stuffed up” NBN costs, says Labor
  2. Netflix speeds show Turnbull’s NBN is “flatlining”, says Labor
  3. Labor slams Turnbull’s NBN “broken promises”
  4. Michelle Rowland appointed Shadow Minister for Communications
  5. NBN “exceeding targets”, says Government

130 COMMENTS

  1. To back up her statements, the Shadow Minister told of how, at a community forum in Rockhampton, Queensland, on Monday, Labor Leader Bill Shorten heard from a local resident who allegedly said he “enjoyed quicker Internet speeds in Cambodia than in his own home”.

    Seriously that’s the validation for FTTP? or to be correct in Labors revised 2016 NBN policy 2M more on FTTP, but just don’t ask when that would have happened.

    In the meantime the faster to deploy NBN MtM model rolls on to completion exceeding targets.

    lol

    • Even if it is on target, the peak congestion issues and the fact that the technology is already outdated means our world internet speed ranking is unlikely to improve.

      And don’t start on about how copper can achieve the same as fibre. That’s complete BS, because no matter how good the technology is at each end of the copper; the copper itself is the weak link.

      Just this week I’ve been battling with Telstra to fix my copper line, as there’s major interference on the line about 40-50m from my house. Presumably because the line in the pit is taped together and water “protected” by a shopping bag (not joking). I’m lucky if I get close to 2Mbps.

      You can’t seriously tell me this same copper will be fine for the next 10 years; let alone 50.

        • “peak congestion issues nothing to do with last mile technologies but provisioned CVC”

          This is true, and it’s definitely an issue, although seems far more prominent on FTTN than FTTP—regardless, the last mile (particularly in my case) uses old decrepit not-fit-for-purpose copper. It’s still the weak link.

          • @Reality

            ADSL2 currently. I’m sure my speed will improve once they connect and switch on the Node which has been sitting on my street for 9 months; but it’s more than 50m away (as the crow flies), yet the major interference detected in my line is at about 40-50m. The tech who tested it reckons it’s corroded—waiting on Telstra now.

            Therein is my point. Copper corrodes. It degrades quickly compared to newer technologies (yes, fibre).

          • @RL contention is no more prominent on FTTN; PoI’s CVC & RSP backhaul is shared among all techs.

            Give us the low down on your sync speed once connected to your node (many reports of activation delays, not good but ramp-up extraordinary). Your “copper” issues will be resolved, a single run @ 50m. Expected sync will be much higher than provisioned CVC as is 7330’s uplink capacity.

            Yesterday Morrow confirmed copper remediation costs within expectations. Such scaremongering has no more truth to it than the fiberartzis squealing wrong copper diameter and 2-3 new power stations required!

          • @Richard Yeah we’ll see about that. Tech reported my sync speed was about 2.5Mbps (on the line, I lose 1Mbps via hardware).

            The copper fault is within 50m of my house, yet the Node with *direct line of sight* (if I put a ladder on my roof) is greater than 50m away (measuring on Google Maps comes to 223m LOS from the connector on my house to the Node). Best case scenario is about 300m of copper between my house and the Node (which is highly unlikely).

            I fail to see how interference will be resolved when the copper fault is closer than the Node it’s connected to.

          • @ Richard

            “Yesterday Morrow confirmed copper remediation costs within expectations.”

            Wow Morrow or Richard said, are now the smoking guns…

            So within expectations like the $29.5B/25 Mbps for all by 2016 expectation… oh you mean they are on track “after factoring the massive cost blow outs again”… LOL

            http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/technology/nbn-co-faces-new-network-blowout-bill-on-copper-repair/news-story/b19d422c49c6db98c5d52990e087c6e9

            You’ll have to Google the above to avoid the paywall… oh how silly of me, The Australian… you’d be a proud subscriber, I’m sure… carry on.

            http://www.zdnet.com/article/nbn-clocks-up-more-than-au44m-in-new-copper/

            https://delimiter.com.au/2015/12/21/nbn-co-to-pay-telstra-to-fix-its-own-copper-network/

            In fact heres a heap of education for you relating to $89m power costs, HFC blow outs and other such MTM mismanaged debacle (much like we told you, yet you refuted).

            https://delimiter.com.au/2016/08/12/netflix-figures-back-coalitions-faster-nbn-rollout-says-fifield/#comment-760073

            You guys are like the sequel eh… Bill and Dick’s bogus journey.

            You’re welcome.

          • Be nice Rizz.

            Richard still thinks the s1.5 counter factual is comparable to the mtm lol

          • Addendum Richard (from The Australian)…

            Was this part of “your” original plan?

            “NBN expects to spend $26,115 per node to fix Telstra’s copper lines to ensure it can deliver the speeds and service quality promised for Malcolm Turnbull’s mixed-technology network.

            The documents make a mockery of the assumptions contained in a 2013 strategic review, prepared after the Coalition won power, which put the cost of remediating copper connections at just $2685 for each node.”

            You’re welcome

        • @Richard “only an ignoramus would believe Cambodian internet is better provisioned than Australia.”

          Having lived in Cambodia for more than two years, I’m certain that Internet in Cambodia is better than anything I was able to access in Australia.
          Australia-Home: Typical 0.2 – 0.8 Mb/s Limited to 50Gig/Mnth $120/Mnth
          Cambodia-Home: Typical 4 – 6 Mb/s Unlimited $10/Mnth
          Australia-Mobile: Typical 0.03 – 1.5 Mb/s Limited to 3Gig/Mnth $30/Mnth Service regularly drops out even in residential areas.
          Cambodia-Mobile: Typical 1 – 8 Mb/s Unlimited, but slowed to 0.3 Mb/s after 2Gig $3/Mnth Never lost service, even in rural and island locations.
          Australia-Public Wifi: Rare and time limited, often under 1Mb/s
          Cambodia-Public Wifi: Free in all accommodation and most bars-cafes. KFC provides 20Mb/s.
          Note: Mb = Megabit; Mb / 8 = MB; Gig = Gigabytes.

          • @e I was in Cambodia last year, a developing country with a tiny fraction of our installed infrastructure & capacity.

            Akamai shows avg peak down Cambodia ~10mbps, Australia ~40mbps. Broadband penetration isn’t comparable, nor IXP capacity.

            Such comparisons are absurd.

          • “I was in Cambodia last year, a developing country with a tiny fraction of our installed infrastructure & capacity”

            Yup…very poor. That makes it curious that most all of the providers are moving to FTTH, with one blaring exception…and it is the largest provider in Cambodia (though dropping fast) – Telstra (called “Online” in Cambodia).
            Of course the reason that Telstra is still so large is that the pretty much own the fibre links coming into Cambodia. They do their what they do here, leverage their (basically) monopoly to control the market.

        • “@rl peak congestion issues nothing to do with last mile technologies but provisioned CVC”

          Sure its possible its a CVC issue but a FttN node if everyone decides to use it can only current supply 5Mbps per user (they haven’t provided the cabinets with enough fibre even if they maxed out what the hardware can have connected it still falls short of the FttP 84Mbps per customer).

          If its a CVC issue then everyone’s buggered equally.

      • > And don’t start on about how copper can achieve the same as fibre. That’s complete BS, because no matter how good the technology is at each end of the copper; the copper itself is the weak link.

        Wrong the weakest link is the financial plan put together by Labor that has resulted in 82% connecting at 25Mbps or slower and the number on 100Mbps continually shrinking (down 4% to 14% in last twelve months).

        People are simply not prepared to pay the premiums for faster speeds and that has created a digital divide that grows wider every day. If the Liberals removed the speed tiers on FTTN then more than 82% would have a faster connection than if they were on FTTP.

        • Mathew how is a digital devide lol. It not like they can’t choose to get 100Mbps later unlike fttn as if can only get 25Mbps that all you will be getting lol.

          Lol Mathew please explain how fttn is faster than fttp lol

        • “Wrong the weakest link is the financial plan put together by Labor”

          But approved by the Liberals and run in a commercial sense for almost twice as long as Labor. So when (in your bizarre world) does it become the Libs plan?
          It has absolutely zero relevance how many people are on what speed grade today…it makes no difference at all.
          Once it DOES make a difference, we will not have an infrastructure that can sustain our broadband properly, so the financial model is quite moot and easily changed.

    • Exceeding targets …RRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFLLLLLLL.

      TARGET: – 25Mbps for all Aussies by 2016, $29.5B, fully costed, ready to roll…

      Revised (LOL) TARGET… now as much as $70B (depending upon which luddite one believes) – not available to all Aussies until 2020…

      On what fucking planet could anyone, even the lamest lackey, or lying pollie, consider that exceeding?

      Apology accepted

      • 1st target revised after SR13 and updated in CP 16, but you know that.

        The $70B prediction was a from a treasure that was booted out of that position and is no longer even a MP, but you know that also.

        Using bold and swearing doesn’t compensate for living in the past in a fantasy bubble.

        In the meantime in the real world the MtM rolls on exceeding targets, a scenario Labor could only dream of after the failed NBN attempt of 2010-2013.

    • yeah kinda, we were trying to offload refugees there as a deterrent to travelling to Australia by boat

  2. Since the general media is unlikely to review the documents in depth and all I expect to read is that they “exceeded” their numbers, any media company reading this can steal this publish it free of charge. Firstly lets start with a link http://www.nbnco.com.au/corporate-information/media-centre/media-releases/nbn-exceeds-financial-year-targets.html to NBN Financial targets published for 2016. Looks good at first but lets read further.

    This document http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco2/documents/nbn-financial-results-FY2016.pdf shows that FTTN has 1/5th the users added in 2015-16 but 1.5 times the capex. FTTP currently makes up 50% of the revenue.

    FTTN: Capex $1668m Premises passed 652k for $2558 per premises
    FTTP: Capex $1078m Premises passed 496k for $2172 per premises

    Revenue FTTN – $10,000,000
    FTTP – $225,000,000

    The whole thing shows that FTTN costs more then reported and delivers less revenue.

    Oh and of the 1+ million active connections 800,000 are FTTP so the LNP since 2013 have only connected 200,000 at most. About 50,000 additional users on Skymuster which Malcolm was totally opposed to http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/the-satellite-malcolm-turnbull-never-wanted-prepares-for-liftoff-20150825-gj7t3j.html (unless taking credit for the connections of course).

    In short if the whole thing had been an Ad then the LNP and Turnbull would be hit with bait and switch advertising laws. What is being delivered since they took office is neither cheaper, faster or sooner.

    • The whole thing shows that FTTN costs more then reported and delivers less revenue.

      Key point you left out, FTTN was only released September last year, FTTP has been rolling out since 2010-2011.

      • Actually his key point works out well w/ your argument. All that “progress” their claiming credit for was from FTTP already rolling out before Coalition took over. So their taking credit for “targets reached” that they didn’t even work or plan on.

        So what exactly was your argument?

        Also key point you left out…

        Fully Costed Ready to go 29.5 Billion Plan and everyone on 25Mbps by 2016.

        • FTTN was only released September last year, FTTP has been rolling out since 2010-2011.

          You ignored that timeline comparison entirely and ranted on about something else, also FTTP is also Coalition policy.

          Labor have had nothing to do with the NBN since September 2013, to say in August 2016 after two elections they are ‘Labor targets’ is total BS and a complete fantasy.

          Fully Costed Ready to go 29.5 Billion Plan and everyone on 25Mbps by 2016.

          Once again a Coalition MtM hater pretending they don’t know about the well publicised revised targets after SR 2013, that’s three years those targets have been revised, and three years going onto six that well out of date comment is repeated.

          I know you don’t have much material but at least use up to date material.

          • “Once again a Coalition MtM hater pretending they don’t know about the well publicised revised targets after SR 2013”

            No just rather interesting how one party can get away w/ “revised” estimates

            And the other being labelled as a “failure”.

          • So devoid are you now claiming it’s faster to rollout FTTP than it was to get FTTN even started lol

          • No, because the NBN rollout stats show that FTTN is faster to rollout than FTTP, so it is indeed fortunate that the Labor plan of a extra 2M residences on FTTP was not backed by the electorate and the faster to deploy and lower CPP FTTN will go head in the Labor planned FTTP areas, not that they said exactly where the 2M would go and when it would be finished.

            But going on Labor past performance the rollout targets would have been heavily cut back because their 2M extra on FTTP construction target by 2022 would have been ‘too optimistic’ after post election SR reviews.

          • Wrong again devoid NBN stats show it’s slower than FTTP to deply 162 days RFS FTTP vs 190 RFS FTTN

          • @ alain…

            Through to the keeper eh….

            https://delimiter.com.au/2011/12/29/nbn-policy-should-integrate-fttn-hfc-budde/#comment-287691

            Let’s enjoy together…

            “alain 01/01/2012 at 6:35 pm
            Hey I will build you a house on a 12 month contract, when it’s not finished in month 12 and you say WTF I can just say I have extended it another 12 months so it’s on still schedule, then at the end of that 12 months I extend it again and say it’s still on schedule.

            Easy eh?”

            PRICELESS…

            How embarrassing for you…but then you’d be used to it following years of imbecilic comments being thrown back at you… water off a ducks back, so to speak.

            You’re welcome

          • RocK_M,

            No just rather interesting how one party can get away w/ “revised” estimates

            Interesting that the Labor NBN Co constantly revised their estimates downwards re rollout targets in a series of NBN Corporate plans between 2010 and 2013.

            Were they are series of failures or just revised estimates?

          • alain (Reality…lol) 01/01/2012 at 6:35 pm
            Hey I will build you a house on a 12 month contract, when it’s not finished in month 12 and you say WTF I can just say I have extended it another 12 months so it’s on still schedule, then at the end of that 12 months I extend it again and say it’s still on schedule.

            Easy eh?

            Apology accepted

          • @Reality: “Interesting that the Labor NBN Co constantly revised their estimates downwards re rollout targets in a series of NBN Corporate plans between 2010 and 2013.”

            Really depends on your point of view doesn’t it?

            You guys were harping on about those as a series of failures and “pro FTTP” saw it as “revisions”. Now that Coalition is doing the same thing it’s like staring at the mirror w/ those changes as “estimates” from you and “pro FTTP” as “failure”

            Again all rather interesting to see it all flipped around.

          • @ Rock_M

            I don’t think it depends upon POV, it’s either ok or it’s not?

            But for this individual to have derided such revisions previously and now not only accept but revisions as an excuse isn’y POV…

            It’s idiotic bias.

          • Alt – “FTTP has been rolling out since 2010-2011”

            What a load of crap…the commercial rollout of FTTP began at the end of Q1 2012 when the first POI was installed and Telstra deal was finalized.

            Specifically 7 March 2012 when the Definitive Agreements was signed between Telstra, the Govt and NBNCo for compensation to Telstra for use of it’s ‘pit and pipe’ infrastructure and transfer of customers to NBN
            And March 22 2012 when Emerson Network Power delivers first of 10 POI’s to NBNCo. First location being Port Melbourne, Vic.

      • @ Reality

        Didn’t the LNP categorically state prior to the 2013 election that ALL Austrlians would be connected to a minimum of 25MB NBN at the close of 2016, so “released in September last year” as you put it doesn’t mean shit, they have failed abysmally.

      • @ Reality

        Assuming equal returns (which they aren’t), this still indicates in favour of FTTP:

        > FTTN: Capex $1668m Premises passed 652k for $2558 per premises
        > FTTP: Capex $1078m Premises passed 496k for $2172 per premises

        • FTTN (launched Sep16) ramping up, FTTH winding down. Capex is spent well before area goes RFS. Life-to-date CPP on page 14. Fibre far more expensive (surprised?).

          • Go ahead, tell us all about it, that means you link to actual figures relevant to the NBN in Australia.

          • @ Richard

            FTTN (launched Sep16)…

            Err it’s not Sept 2016 yet, Mr Numbers. I believe you meant 2015… not like you blokes to go forward now is it?

            But regardless, yes the “faster [sic] FRAUDBAND/FTTN network”, took 2 years of SFA to launch…

            Ramping up…yes, it’s ramping up from SFA to marginally better than SFA… ROFL

            Great plan Dick, you should have just kept the iron wires… why didn’t you again? Oh that’s right you can see why, now, in hindsight.

            So keep dreaming and finding all those copper cherries…

            You’re welcome.

          • Lol classic bile and abuse from Dick or should we say Snowflake.
            But which can’t even use your figures as you get 60m from 16m can’t even add $700 or got past the 1st page on Quigley document lol.

          • Gotta laugh at poor old Richard and his trusty lap dog, both desperately trying to polish their political MTM/FRAUDBAND turd…whilst it oozes through their fingers…

            Why ask when you don’t want answers?

            As supplied by Snow Crash yesterday…

            http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/20/verizon_fibre_is_so_much_cheaper_than_copper_were_going_allfttp/

            and some references….

            https://delimiter.com.au/2016/08/12/netflix-figures-back-coalitions-faster-nbn-rollout-says-fifield/#comment-760073

            You’re welcome

          • So devoid of the USA is going to supply a gigabit service in the USA by the end of 2017. Then why are we supplying an up to 25Mbps service by 2020 lol

          • Wow alain… they are rolling out DOCSIS 3.1 on what?

            “Failed HFC (your words)”

            Well???

            It just get’s better as alain digs his hole of contradictory idiocy deeper and deeper.

            Time for a new shovel, the old one must be well and truly worn out by now.

            You’re welcome.

          • “US cable operator Midco launching DOCSIS 3.1 in four cities by year’s end”

            Isn’t it the strangest thing that Comcast owns 49% MidCo and Comcast is overbuilding with 2 Gigabit Fiber To the Home to 18 billion customers. Comcast have 19.986 million broadband customers

            MidCo (Midcontinent Communications) is PLANNING not LAUNCHING just like Comcast. I bet the “plan” will probably never see the light of day.

            Go and take a Valium Reality

            Check on ya later at the Funny Farm retard!!

          • “Direct opex factored in here”

            An incredibly flawed analysis…it makes the assumption that speeds and demand remain as they are today through 2022?? Not even you can be that thick…
            In essence, you are of the opinion that demand will be at 25Mbps for decades to come, even though the rest of the world is expected to be on gigabit within the next 4 years…

          • @c both “assumptions” covered in the discussion (by the only two delim with a clue). The fanboys have nothing but their squealing (still no link to damage fibre cheaper than copper;-).

            Nice made up strawman finish.

          • “both “assumptions” covered in the discussion”

            Please provide that quote oh clueless one…

            “still no link to damage fibre cheaper than copper”

            Still no willingness to stand behind your statements and agree to my terms…nor an ability to read or understand English it appears.

          • You left out this bit from the link report.

            “The difference is in the revenues. It adds a lot to total funding requirements,” senior telecommunications analyst at Ovum, David Kennedy, said.

            He believes a fibre-to-the-premise network would take even longer to roll out than the strategic review’s estimate of 2024 completion, but that the figures in the latest report were more accurate than previous estimates

            Thanks for the link, bit of a own goal though (again).

            lol

          • You mean David Kennedy – Helen Coonan’s former policy adviser?

            The FRAUDBAND adviser, you mean… talking about own goals.

            lol indeed at you, again, still, etc.

            Speaking of own goals and LOL… you didn’t address this again?

            “alain 01/01/2012 at 6:35 pm
            Hey I will build you a house on a 12 month contract, when it’s not finished in month 12 and you say WTF I can just say I have extended it another 12 months so it’s on still schedule, then at the end of that 12 months I extend it again and say it’s still on schedule.

            Easy eh?”

            You’re welcome

          • Lol devoid he believes when the stats from NBN has shown FTTP rollout is faster than FTTN lol.

            But then the latest revenue figures from NBN have FTTP $225 per active connection vs FTTN $85

          • As a programmer, there are often many ways of doing things. There is the “quick and dirty” way, which is faster and cheaper—but comes at considerable technical debt.
            Then there is the “thought out, planned and constructed” way. It takes longer, costs more, but is easier (read cheaper) to maintain, and often handles future upgrades/changes with ease.

            I’ll take a longer build to get it right any day.

          • Rizz,

            Be more careful with your Jason K sock puppet links, if you are going to link to material which you think supports your case read all of it and make sure there is not material in there that does the opposite.

            Then when it is highlighted have a whinge about the fact it was highlighted just because you are lazy and constantly set yourself up for own goals.

          • @jk you’ve been using the $1b differential for sometime. The smh link exposes the basis of your misunderstanding.

            SR13p13 shows FY11-FY21 opex + capex differential for S2 (Radically Redesigned FTTP; not Quigley’s) & S6 (Optimised MTM) of $1b. The table also shows S6’s expected completion date end of CY20, S2’s CY23.

            So you’re comparing S6’s build completed plus one years operation costs with S2’s still under construction for another 2 years figure!

            The same table shows an additional $~9b capex alone required to see S6 through to end of construction, then you’d need to add undefined opex for an accurate differential.

            Alternatively you could you peak funding to provide a more accurate picture (includes earlier revenues); S2 ~$64bn v S6 ~$41bn or Quigley’s S1 ~$73bn (ouch).

          • Lol Richard
            “Alternatively you could you peak funding to provide a more accurate picture (includes earlier revenues); S2 ~$64bn v S6 ~$41bn (ouch).”
            But now it’s S2 ~$64bn v S6 ~$56bn (ouch).

          • Lol devoid your detour sign showing again

            You claim stuff in the link which NBN stats have disproved so far like FTTN is faster than FTTP which it’s the opposite now your just have a sulk about being catch out lol.

          • @jk you’re confusing references:
            CP16p39 S1.5 $74-84b v S6 $46-56b

            As discussed previously a revised S2 wasn’t provided.

          • @ alain,

            I do not need advice from you.. a serial walking talking, contradiction (proven by many previous links, you do not have the balls to even address).

            You someone who has NFI about telecomms and like a mindless ventriloquists dummy, simply blurts out his (political) master’s rubbish (again proven by previously unaddressed links)…

            If you disagree with me… good, I know I must be right and good I know I’m getting to you and your blatant lies and BS…

            Enjoy…

            Now that the obvious is out of the way..

            EXPLAIN…

            “alain 01/01/2012 at 6:35 pm
            Hey I will build you a house on a 12 month contract, when it’s not finished in month 12 and you say WTF I can just say I have extended it another 12 months so it’s on still schedule, then at the end of that 12 months I extend it again and say it’s still on schedule.

            Easy eh?”

            You’re welcome

          • Lol Richard fell for the counter factual again lol

            So let’s gets this straight

            you claim the s1.5 which was to go from doing the MTM back to FTTP

            as labor FTTP SR1 rollout.

            But s1.5 figures made up by the NBN for Turnbull (but we know you like made up figures lol). I cant believe the great numbers man would fall again for those figures but here we stand lol. How embarrassing for you that must be lol. Thank you Richard I have laughed this hard in awhile.

            Vs the MTM up to $56B rollout

            Vs the s2 $64B or even s1 at $71B if they didn’t switched to the MTM but continued with FTTP.

            Lol a revised wasn’t needed as the current CP states
            “Management and the Board have not taken
            a view on assumptions beyond that time, and no better estimates exist than the assumptions applied in the Strategic Review dated December 2013.”

          • @jk isn’t complicated. S1.5 remains undefined, but we know it isn’t S1 or S2.

            You selectively quote only part of the sentence (surprise;-). CP16p4, in full:
            “Additionally, the Operating Plan addresses the period FY15-FY22 only, Management and the Board have not taken a view on assumptions beyond that time, and no better estimates exist than the assumptions applied in the Strategic Review dated December 2013.”

            They’re talking the operational plan. Get your accountant to explain it to you.

            S2 revision not supplied, can’t substitute SR13’s value.

            Nice work on the $1b above BTW (Lol).

          • Lol Richard still falling for the counter factual just getting better and better.

            Is the S1.5
            A. Labor orignal rollout
            B. Isn’t labor orignal roll

            If you claim A like you have above why does it include the cost blow outs from the MTM lol. Embarrass Your self even more please I can’t stop laughing.

            Please simple answer can’t wait to here it. Make me laugh even more lol.

            Sorry Richard good job on the $1B above btw like we can believe any of your own figures when you can’t even use the correct ones your self. Lol

          • He knows the difference between 16m and 60m…
            now JK…

            Since I educated him…

            But he’s coming along ok, just gotta keep extracting the Ergas and he’ll be fine… to live in Cambodia and have better internet than his shitty MTM he thrusts upon us here ;)

          • @jk S1 was the original roll-out, S1.5 different (and undefined). That’s why they use different names for them.

            Not sure why you’re laughing, you clearly don’t understand the thread (exposure of your shallow understanding). $1b;-)

          • Lol s1.5 is a restart or switching to FTTP from the MTM not the orignal rollout as stated by morrow him self.
            So again falling for the 20th time now the counter factual that includes the cost of the MTM blowouts the lost in time switching from drop the MTM and then going back. But please keep going your cracking me up lol.

            Undefined or made up as NBN won’t release the figures now will they lol. Like I said we all know how you like made up figures lol.

            How embarrassing for you that you think it’s still the orignal rollout

          • JK these ideologue puppets, hadn’t even heard of the scenario’s, until yourself R0nin etc educated them.. yet they argued against their own biased panel’s scenarios… FFS.

            And now the lap dog even totally disregards the SR, until today when he didn’t…typical

            Classic stupidity from classically stupid brainwashed cultists…

          • In the meantime while the sock puppet hate routine rants on and on and on 24/7 spitting out abuse, the NBN MtM rolls onto completion with no change whatever to the model after being voted in as the preferred NBN policy two elections in a row.

            With DOCSIS 3.1 and FTTdp well established the failed Labor rollout that ended in 2013 will be long forgotten, except for Rizz with his faded moth eaten pictures of Conroy and Quigley hanging on the bedroom wall.

            ROFL

          • Lol devoid why is half the country get more than 100Mbps capable networks while the other half has to settle for up to 25Mbps

          • alain…

            But, but, but …

            You don’t have the balls to address your completely imbecilic one eyed revision is fucked/great rant… or your HFC failed/great rant… (everyone can see it… you’re welcome)

            Yet you are compelled to say something… err, stupid

            That in itself is PRICELESS…

            Keep digging that hole of idiocy deeper and deeper… :)

            Apology accepted.

          • “With DOCSIS 3.1 and FTTdp well established”

            Only Alternate would call initial trial rollouts “well established”…
            Sigh…

      • “Key point you left out, FTTN was only released September last year”
        Your heroes claimed their Faster & Cheaper MTM was Fully Costed & ready to go back in 2013.
        So what were they doing between Sept 1013 & then other than stall the fibre roll-out followed by endless staged reviews, phony CBAs, excuses & waffle?

    • Really, so where does Cambodia rate on world Internet speed ranking lists compared to Australia?

        • Not according to eltimbalino?

          And if given a choice between believing a legitimate poster and you (a chronic liar, who contradicts, spins and is a poor man’s ventriloquists dummy) …

          Guess what?

          But touche` for suggesting the MTM shit pile is (or isn’t) marginally better than Cambodia…

          Now there’s something as a nation we can all be proud of…ROFL

          You’re welcome

          • eltimbalino is you, yes I thought you would like that link, you can tell when you are backed into a corner the abuse tap is turned on full.

          • Jeebus Reality. Would you get over the “Everyone is Rizz” line. Just makes you look paranoid.

          • C’mon Woolfe,

            I’m actually starting to get a “super ego” with all of this attention…

            All I have to do now to make the super ego official is…

            Quote my (supposed) looooong list of credentials/qualifications, tell people my full name and say look me up (or words similar) and when they do, scream stalker, talk myself up as the keeper of the key to all wisdom, make off the cuff comments about my trips to Argentina, Cambodia etc to show how cosmopolitan I am, belittle everyone else and suggest that they have no clue and are not worthy to even cower before me, call them squealers when they dare question me and scream abuse and bile when they do not refer to me as King or God (whilst screaming nothing but pompous abuse an bile at them of course), cherry-pick figures and omit other pertinent figures to suit my preferred cultist conclusion, rather than using all of the actual figures to come to an actual rational conclusion and finally claim that I could have written government comms policy, because.. well, obviously I am simply the fuckin’ best, just ask me.

            It’s already been done you say?

            Oh ok… never mind…

  4. Delivering DSL that needs to be completely replaced.

    Delivering HFC that will fall over that also needs to be completely replaced to fibre.

    Delivering faulty insecure wireless that barely meets the speed people pay for because it’s wireless.

    Delivering Satellite with completely unusable 600ms latencies and pathetic data rates where you will be kicked off purely for trying to run a business of it. Paying the same amount of $200 as they already do on scammy insecure mobile.

    So another decade waiting for fibre in HFC,Wireless areas.

    That is a massive mismanagement of public money and bad investment.

    Deserves class action and royal commission for their spiteful sabotage.

  5. I I must admit, I walk with my back to the wall, when I near my local Lib member’s office, just in case JK ;)

  6. It’s been interesting reading the comments in response to this article. And noting just how far the MTM apologists have managed to drag the discussion off topic.

    Let’s face it.
    Fact ….. Malcolm Turnbull, when he was Comms Minister prior to the 2013 election promised that the entire country would have access to 25Mbps download speeds by the end of 2016.
    Fact ….. This clearly isn’t going to happen. In fact NBNCo are crowing about just 3 million premises being able to access the MTM. And this just 5 months prior to the end of 2016.
    Fact ….. Michelle Rowland is correct when she states that “Having broken that promise, he (Turnbull) is building a copper-based network replete with customer complaints and failed expectations.”

    And the Turnbull/MTM supporters/apologists simply can’t refute those facts, no matter much they may bluster, engage in discombobulation, or down right lie. Malcolm Turnbull and the Liberal Party have failed to live up to their promises. They continue to lie and obfuscate regarding their failures, and the NBNCo management and PR dept, acting as agents representing the interests of it’s shareholders, (currently the LNP Govt), engage in actively supporting those lies and misrepresentations.

    All the above are irrefutable facts. Enough said.

  7. If anyone is interested, here is the definition of ready for service. It actually means that only 30% of them can really get NBN.

    Ready for Service
    Ready for Service is a status given by nbn™ that releases a Rollout Region to Retail Service Providers, allowing them to connect customers to the NBN.

    For premises in the fixed-line footprint, the 18-month Telstra network switch-off commences on the day that nbn™ declares the rollout region Ready for Service. This is known as the Disconnection Commencement Date.

    Prior to October 2014 for fixed-line areas, this declaration was made once 90% of premisesin an NBN rollout region are considered “passed” by the network.

    After October 2014 for fixed-line areas, this declaration was made once at least 30% of premises in an NBN rollout region had their external (PCD) installation completed.

  9. I haven’t seen anyone connected to fibre to node telling us how good it is.

    • well, no. because it is shit.

      Friend of mine down in Gorokan (shh i hear some of you groan when i mention that DA) is on FTTN. she started out with a 65 Mbit service, paying a 100/40 line. she was pretty pleased to start with.

      current DA stats

      Service Class 10 6 (0%) location is planned to be serviceable by copper
      Service Class 11 1,245 (31%) the location is serviceable by copper, copper lead-in required
      Service Class 12 1,666 (41%) the location is serviceable by copper, jumpering is required
      Service Class 13 1,103 (27%) location is serviceable by copper, infrastructure in place
      Total 4,020

      so shes in service class 13 – and the service rate has fallen to ~21 mbps. with another 41-72% of connections in the area yet to be made. i wonder how much further the line rate will sink?

      in any case; she certainly isnt impressed. there aint no way shes going to call in for Fifi on Q&A tonight, cheering about how awesome the FTTN service is…..

      FTR i have advised her to back down to 50/20 or even 25/5 service; which – like so many FTTN lines – represents a steep and continuing loss of revenues for NBN(tm). Thank Mal for saving NBN! no, really!

  10. I wouldn’t use a FTTN connection even if I was paid to.
    Pathetic that some people actually defend FTTN bullshit.

    • Feedback from areas near me, I care not when they get to this area. Not interest in FTTN. Sorry. Nonny noose, I am in same region, Lake Munmorah.

  11. Funny how quiet pro MTM FTTN shills are quiet when someones FTTN connection is utter crap being slow and with full on drop outs.

    Funny how MTM FTTN shills avoid anything to do with reliability.

    • Funny how MTM FTTN shills avoid anything to do with reliability.

      It’s not just that, they’ll avoid anything that pokes holes in their arguments and considering they are defending the MTM clusterfuck those holes are pretty darn big and plentiful. Expect them to use special pleading arguments and other logical fallacies in an attempt to fill some of those holes when they aren’t running scared.

    • @ jingo

      Yes… he is and yes he did…

      In fact he got banned for a year (the record holder – and he used to give me shit because I got banned…lol) but he begged Renai to let him off, by blaming HC and I for his own stupidity (as we are again witnessing) and after a couple of months (iirc) he got off…

  13. there is a bottom line really. adsl2+ offers “up to 24Mbps/4Mbps” . however its heavily impacted by copper quality and distance.
    MTM is offering us “up to 25/5” using xDSL using the same copper with the same impacts tof quality and distance .

    the way it was sold was that it would cost $29Bn and be ready the end of their first term, which ended half way through 2016.

    so $29Bn for 1 extra Mbps up and 1 extra Mbps down … value for money ?
    Regarding the CVC issue, yes its an issue, however with a near full FTTP roll out many more people would be purchasing higher speed plans ( as can be seen from the figures ) RSPs would be advertising the speed tiers as differentiators. But with FTTN the big RSPs like Telstra refuse to advertise any speeds, and automatically put you on 25/5 because letting people buy 100/40 plans when they can only achieve half of that or less causes lots of trouble for them and so its easier to just try and avoid speed tiers all together and just get the base speed that has been promised.This leads to fewer people paying higher tier pricing which in turn leads to less CVC purchased by each RSP because they cant afford more due to everyone being on a low teir plan.
    it should be no surprise that Telstra have about half the market, coming off a monopoly like they hazd they were likely to grab the lions share. Even more so when they insisted in 121 POI instead of 14 basically pricing the smaller RSPs out of the market entirely.
    So yes CVC is much much worse with FTTN, quite apart from the fact that with a near full FTTP roil out after a period of time, 200/80 plans can be released to be priced a little higher, then 400/200, then 800 / 400, then 1Gbps …FTTN is at capacity at launch, it can go no further than it already has.

    people right next to the nodes synch at just over 100Mbps, so there is no where to go for these people, ther eis no more money to be made from them,

    So the documents released by the nbn have proved that
    1) The MTM is not faster, the resulting connection is much poorer than a FTTP and in many cases its actually worse than the ADSL it replaced.
    2) The MTM is not sooner, the current (moving) target says the end of 2020, 1 year before labors 93% FTTP roll out was scheduled to be complete. so yeah it might be 1 year sooner, in the scale of a ten year project that’s not really a lot, and all evidence shows that with new technology and new processes that the FTTP rollout would have sped up beyo0n d expectations.
    3) The MTM is not cheaper, the 93% FTTP roll out was costed at $44Bn, the MTM is costed at $56Bn. The figures released by nbn have shown that Labors nbn had in fact OVER estimated costs by about 10% (something it did on purpose to avoid surprise blow outs )

    so not sooner, not cheaper, and was never going to be faster This from the party that’s apparently good with money.now the nbn really IS a white elephant.

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