Australia’s peak technology industry representative group has sharply criticised Victoria’s new Coalition Government for its apparent decision to reject an ‘opt-out’ approach to rolling out the National Broadband Network in the state in favour of requiring residents and businesses to ‘opt-in’.
The new State Government has not made an official statement of its position on the matter, but new Victorian Premier Ted Baillieu sparked controversy this week when he told The Australian the NBN rollout “ought to be optional”. The Tasmanian Labor Government has pursued the opposite approach in its own rollout.
In a statement issued yesterday, the Australian Information Industry Association — which represents hundreds of technology companies operating in the local market, including global giants like IBM and Microsoft, said it had “reservations” about Baillieu’s approach.
“We would welcome the opportunity to discuss these issues with the Victorian Government,” said AIIA chief executive Ian Birks (pictured).
“An opt-in approach to NBN take-up will almost certainly delay the broader community, and ultimately the national benefits that can be delivered by ubiquitous take up of high speed broadband,” he added. “Arguably, those who are least informed and most disconnected will be disadvantaged the most – and everyone will be subject to unnecessary administrative red tape, which is itself a disincentive to take-up.”
Birks alleged the value of high levels of broadband usage was “well-documented around the globe” and said with Australia already playing “catch-up” with its Asian neighbours, now was “not the time” to introduce additional barriers to community engagement with the digital economy.
“A key value of ubiquitous broadband is critical mass – having whole communities connected and using the infrastructure. This in turn, drives momentum, innovation and demand for smart applications that will benefit both communities and the economy, ” said Birks. “The productivity benefits of a digital economy depend on more than providing optional access to pipes and cables. We have to turn our attention to stimulating use and the development of new applications.”
“It is incumbent on government and business alike to ensure every Australian is given the confidence and skills to participate in our digital economy. The risk of falling behind is too important to ignore.”
The lack of clarity around the opt-out idea being legislated in Tasmania currently extends to other states. The NSW Labor Government — which is expected to lose the next state election in March — has ruled out following the opt-out path, although the state Opposition is not yet known to have released a policy on the matter.
The Queensland Government is also not known to have made a decision on the issue.
Image credit: AIIA
Careful Renai, you’re gonna create another comment storm… ;)
Hehe we haven’t gotten to 300 for a while ;)
The AIIA would no doubt prefer the government to put a gun to everybody’s head as an encouragement to sign up. Next, buying Cheesymite will be made compulsory: us proles have no idea what is good for us.
This is where everyone is getting it completely wrong.
Nobody – and I mean NOBODY – is making anyone sign up to ANYTHING. This is all about running the cable from the street to the house. It will cost you NOTHING. However, if you leave it till later, it will cost around $300.00 for them to come back and do it.
Whether you ever have a paid NBN-based service running on that cable is irrelevant. I wish people would get this “holding a gun to people’s head” bulldust out of their thinking. It’s rubbish.
People keep talking about the copper being turned off as well. Does this mean it will be shut down at the exchange if your on Telstra equipment and/or all equipment? What if your an Internode customer on Telstra equipment, will you lose your copper adsl connection?
Yes – the copper will turn off a set period of time after your area is connected with fibre. Internode will need to migrate you to a fibre service.
So I’m sure Greg will be happy to pay the $300 connection fee when this happens
Evidently :)
Yes. Also everyone will have to buy new modem/routers and in some cases new phones. Also you will have to allocate space for a back up battery as your NBN connection unlike copper is unpowered. Thats right, in a black out without a backup battery you will have no phone and no internet. Not to mention the disruption and aesthetics of the installation of the cable to and in some cases throughtout the premises, many people will choose to go wireless for phone and internet. This will either make the NBN less likely to be financially viable or raise the prices consumers pay.
Noel,
Where do you get those ridiculous ideas? I’d honestly like to know.
You don’t need a new phone, the old one will plug in just fine.
Here’s what to expect: http://nbntasmania.com.au/index.php?Doo=PageView&id=114
If you have a cordless handset and the power goes out today, you are just as screwed as you would be with no power post NBN. Like your ADSL router would be. Today. Unless you have a UPS.
You can elect to have a backup battery for the NTU. Which provides up to 4 hours of operation in the event of a power outage. Of course, you must have a standard wired POTS handset plugged in, just like you would, today, should the power go out.
No extra cable is needed in the premises. Thanks to The Australian misquoting a source, this is a muppet statement. Unless you currently have a need to run network cable everywhere for all the stuff you haven’t already run cable for (i.e. it’s an entirely redundant activity) or you have eleventy-billion telephone sockets.
Most people go wireless for their *primary* internet connection because they either need the portability, or have no physical high-speed option. Assuming everyone that uses wireless does so because they don’t want to use wired services would be an inaccurate assumption.
Grandma’s 60 year old rotary phone won’t work…but it’s probably replacement time on those…they haven’t been made since the early-80’s…
If people can’t understand that…
(a) if they don’t want an NBN connection, they don’t have to have one – if the policy is opt-out, they can do so; if it is opt-in, they don’t have to do anything.
(b) even if it the fibre is in place, they don’t have to pay for a service on it, EXACTLY like they don’t have to pay for a service on their copper line RIGHT NOW if they don’t want.
…then I give up. It’s simple really.
You omit to state that eventually the copper will be decommissioned by Telstra, not because it doesn’t work anymore because it has ‘rotted away’ it is because Telstra have been given billions by the Government (the figure is $16b so far, (if approved by shareholders) to migrate their customers across to the NBN.
Optus are also negotiating with Santa Conroy for some more of those billions for their customers base.
In the final washup around 2018+ that’s how the NBN will be promoted as being ‘successful’.
“The NBN ONT is being supplied to the NBN Co by the ONT distributor for nothing is it?”
Which has absolutely zero to do with your (apparently misinformed) concern over initial cost to the consumer.
Which is exact $0.00 if they opt-in. In an opt-out scenario, it’s also $0.00 if they chose not to opt-out.
It is Interesting you think that expenditure and installation of for example 100,000 NBN boxes is the same if it was 85000 under the guise ‘it’s all free anyway’ who gives a stuff how many units in total the NBN Co pay for, and let’s put these boxes into homes that won’t actually use it.
That’s fine except in this instance all of us are paying for the NBN Co expenditure in the future tax burden.
@Brendan +1
Well said Brendan, it is quite clear that Noel is on a vendetta to destroy the NBN and spread negative and simply wrong information to people browsing this site and these related articles.
Do some research before coming on here and spreading incorrect and biased information about the NBN, when it is clear that you are simply running off at the mouth without one idea of what you are talking about.
Yes you probably will need a battery backup installed at your premise to use the internet and phone line during a blackout, but guess what, with cordless phones being the dominant device in the home you can’t use them during a blackout anyway because there is no electricity to power the cordless phone.
In fact, most people are opting for mobile phones as their main source of telephony communication these days, and why not? $49cap gets you around $400+ of phone calls a month and you can be contacted anywhere you have coverage. Whereas a landline is restrictive, often doesn’t have any free calls, you get charged a line rental fee and the list goes on. But oh wait, during a blackout you can use the phone on a copper network if you have an archaic old hardwired telephone, of which I own none.
During a blackout I use my mobile if I need to make and receive calls, in fact I don’t even give out my home number as I don’t want people ringing my home phone, of which I make zero calls on. That is why I have a VoIP phone at far cheaper rates!
The NBN is going ahead whether you like it or not. Get onboard or don’t, that’s up to you, but at the end of the day you are going to be left behind whilst the rest of us move into the future of broadband. Good luck with your wireless broadband with it’s severely high prices, poor data limits and pings that would make your bank balance look like a millionaire! The there is the poor speeds, network congestion and dropouts…. wireless sure sounds like the way to go Noel.
Its awesome when the power goes out here I can still use my computer and modem to get on the internet…..oh wait what…..you mean they need power to run as well?
“Whether you ever have a paid NBN-based service running on that cable is irrelevant. ”
But trespassing on and defacing my property is *not* irrelevant.
If the NBN is so wonderful people will be queing up to opt-in – what are you afraid of???
Who said I’m “worried” about anything?
And “defacing” your property? Being a TAD dramatic aren’t you?
But if you don’t want them “defacing” your property, then you opt-out. If you want an NBN connection down the track, you can pay the $300.00 to have it done.
You’d be first to complain – “how frigging much?” – when you could have had it for nothing.
I mentioned the $300 figure in the other discussion on Victoria’s Coalition opt in policy, what makes you think the ISP won’t absorb that cost like they do now with the installation cost over a contract term BB plan?
I was tempted to comment on the other thread, but that got a bit eye rolling. Politics being something that encourages that big time. I have voted Labour, I probably will again, but I do lean a little the other way.
NBN, or whatever you wish to call it? Do it for gods sake, just stop fartarseing (sp?) around and do it. Use a few of those supposedly clever types out there to sell it just a wee bit better. So much money gets wasted by various Govt’s the money is not relevant really. Decades old copper pieced together with sticky tape vs a nice shiny new fibre cable thingie. Make it opt out, Do not let blinkered fools stop it.
I am no techie type, I’m a pleb consumer person who really doesn’t need a super wizzo net , but this is more than that, even I can see that. Still a nice fast connection is…nice, especially if you’ve never had access as many do not. People playing party politics just make me grind my teeth, my dentist will be upset, please think about this beyond the myopic party line.
Kristina
This is satire surely? – it’s very good.
Satire? You may wish it so, but right there in your comment we have the very reason so many in this and other countries are cynical and fed up with politics and politicians. Go ahead and belittle me in your reply if you wish. I will take no further part in this discussion. Reason? Discussion? Sigh…. at least you got me to roll my eyes and debate the stupidity or responding to a ‘net discussion’ , how naive can ya get.
Kristina
Industry group that directly benefits from the NBN rollout (pity they are not paying for it! – but I digress) has reservations about opt-in.
No surprises here people, move along.
What you say is true but they are right. As Michael Wyres above will attest, I am against the Government paying for this but if it’s going to happen(which it is) then it must be connected(not forcing people to sign up) to everyone as they roll it out otherwise the cost will skyrocket or the next owner will have to pay for someone elses ignorance.
The copper will be gone so you’re going to need something to use your landline on even if you don’t want broadband.
Now that it’s going ahead we need to just get out of the way and let it roll out as efficiently as possible.
““An opt-in approach to NBN take-up will almost certainly delay the broader community, and ultimately the national benefits that can be delivered by ubiquitous take up of high speed broadband”
You mean the national benefits to YOUR members, not to Australia.
Your infrastructure is being paid for at astronomical expense to the taxpayer, but that isn’t enough – you also demand to have it compulsarily forced down everyone’s throats???
Some nerve you got there!!!
Dont ever sell your property too me, as I would be annoyed to spend extra to have an nbn connection installed – for a connection that is ultimately free or cost during the building stage. It is your perogative to pay/not pay for a service on the line after the install is done.
It’s not FREE someone has to pay for it, the sucker taxpayer of course, the opt-in approach would at least be cheaper overall because there would be less residences taking it as compared with the do nothing and connect everyone approach .
I laugh every time I see the statement it’s ‘FREE’ – excuse me but that’s BS!
its free…
“Free” or “already paid for” it amounts to the same thing; X amount of dollars have been allocated for the fiber drops into 93% of the homes and X amount of dollars have been allocated for the ONT’s for each home too. If you choose to opt-out (or not opt-in) then you are essential wasting time and money. Opt-in would not be cheaper btw, I’m sure once the cogs start turning in your brain you’ll eventually figure it out… or not.
How do you know that x amount of dollars have been allocated for the fibre drops and ONT’s for residences.
How can the NBN Co make any budget allocations for such expenditure until each state finalises their opt-in or opt-out policy, Victoria seems to have made up its mind, Tassie is opt-out , Qld and NSW are still thinking about it .
In any suburb for example if the take up figures were 70% to connect and 30% do not connect are you saying the expenditure would be the same as if it was 100%?
Explain that theory to Optus and Telstra, tell them it would cost them the same to connect everyone to HFC irrespective of whether they take a BB/Pay TV plan or not.
It is ludicrous to say it ‘costs the same’ irrespective of the takeup figure.
Cog turning failure confirmed.
A personal attack is the best retort when you have run out of ideas for a rational response eh HC?
Stating facts isn’t a “personal attack”
“Your infrastructure is being paid for at astronomical expense to the taxpayer, but that isn’t enough – you also demand to have it compulsarily forced down everyone’s throats???”
Either I ‘have the dumb’ or this is a mutually exclusive comment.
It’s not enough that we pay for something, we have to not use it too? Surely the investment will have better returns, the more it’s used? I seem to recall financial returns are best when more people use a product or service, than less.
Just like a plain old telephone service, you can elect to not plug your phone or your modem into it.
You can thus elect to remain a hermit and not use a cable to your premises that carries light, just as much as you can elect not to use copper that carries electrons. It is still your choice. If the road isn’t built to the premises to begin with, then you no longer have that choice to make, period.
Everyone using the NBN will have to buy new modem/routers and in some cases new phones. Also you will have to allocate space for a back up battery as your NBN connection unlike copper is unpowered. Thats right, in a black out without a backup battery you will have no phone and no internet. Not to mention the disruption and aesthetics of the installation of the cable to and in some cases throughtout the premises, many people will choose to go wireless for phone and internet. This will either make the NBN less likely to be financially viable or raise the prices consumers pay.
New phones? Boulderdash!
Explain to me why anyone will need a new phone?
Aside from Grandma with her 60-year old rotary phone…
Sir,
Saying the same thing eleventy-billion times doesn’t make it any more correct than the first. You have a number of factual inaccuracies in your comments.
Absolute garbage misinformation. The NBN ONT that gets installed at no cost to the resident during the rollout has 4 ethernet ports on it. You don’t need to buy a special modem like you do with HFC cable or DSL broadband, the ONT is that modem and for residents that elect to connect to the NBN during the initial rollout it will be provided to them.
In fact, It’s the people that don’t opt-in during the intial rollout (that you are so strongly advocating) that will have to pay for the installation and modem at a later date — or leave the people that rent or purchase the house after them to pay for it.
The NBN ONT is being supplied to the NBN Co by the ONT distributor for nothing is it?
Yeah? Well why didn’t I get the CHOICE to have DC power coming out of the sockets in my house.
The fact that I am FORCED to use AC power is an outrage.
It’s funny to read comments from the filthy poors complaining about power outages and the NBN. Just get the backup battery or a UPS they only cost about $200… definitely an essential item for anyone with a PC imo… even the poors can afford one.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1556146
Backup battery is around $35.
What on earth has the issue to do with the state Government anyway??????
They have enough to occupy their tiny minds without poking their noses into
Telecoms / Network matters
Well you could make the same comment about the Federal Government and the NBN rollout.
Not really – an NBN is a national issue – has never been a state matter
Just because it has the word ‘national’ in front of it doesn’t mean the Government overseeing the project is anymore competent than any given State Government decision.
The recent ‘National’ Labor insulation debacle comes to mind, best not go there eh?
It should be no surprise to anybody to hear that an industry group might want taxpayers to (compulsorily) stump up an enormous wad of money for the ultimate benefit of an industry which will cream a profit margin off the top, with absolutely no risk whatsoever. If I was a captain of industry I would demand that the government throw taxpayers money in my direction if I thought it had any chance of happening. Certain sections of industry must be wetting themselves seeing the Gillard’s government at the helm because you only get one Alan Bond in a lifetime, and you only get one Gillard/Conroy combo in a lifetime.
My problem with the internet right now is the slow speeds to the USA … my local link speed is fine. Throw all that cash at the last mile when the last mile isn’t the problem – why? Who did the analysis that determined that rolling out FTTH would somehow improve everything? What was the problem to be solved? And how would an expensive FTTH NBN solve it?
your local link speed might be fine, but allot of peoples speeds are not fine. I’m guess since you say you’re connection speed is fine, you either are not utilising it full and so suiting what you do currently use it for or you are very close to exchange and so getting close or at max adsl2 speeds.
I know people who are hooked up to an exchange that is a good 15min drive away, you can bet that there speeds are not fine.
Even my speeds are not fine and I’m syncing at 12,974 Kbps sure its a decent speed and allot better than a bunch of people are getting, but if I want to look at getting something like TV over IP and still have decent speeds for other things I use my net for, then I can’t at that connection speed. If my wife watches iView and I try and play an online game, I lag to much for it to be playable.
Just wait until our daughter is old enough to be using the Internet as well, all three of us would not be able to share this connection speed.
Sure if you are wanting to play games or something on a USA hosted server, then you’ll always cop lag…
But if the infrastructure is built here that gives decent bandwidth around the country, that server that you really want to play your game on in the USA might just be hosted here instead.
Services like On Live might become available in Australia and I’m sure there are plenty of other Services that could/would be setup/picked up in Australia once this sort of infrastructure is in place.
Now its late and so I’m going to bed
It is a pretty poor product that can’t sell itself.
Why does the dictatorial ALP have to remove everyone’s copper ? Is it to “prove” that the NBN is wanted ?
To HELL with the ALP.
Why does the dictatorial ALP have to remove everyone’s copper ? Is it to “prove” that the NBN is wanted ?
I dunno… Could it be because fibre is a far superior technology to copper? Or maybe it’s for the good of people like you, who think they’ll never need anything better than copper.
Nobody is “removing” the copper network. The sad reality is that the Copper network is about to hit it’s end of life date, and already has in some areas of Australia. The copper cables decay in terms of quality over time due to earth movements, moisture and age, while there’s only a certain amount that such lines can be split.
Whether people like it or not, the copper network is going to have to be replaced. Given it’s long-term low maintenance, Fibre-optic cable is the pick of the field (in most populated areas) Telstra knows this, hence why they are willing to do away with their unused backbone fibre-optic connections if it helps get the NBN operational quicker.
I don’t like seeing the government spend that amount of money in one hit either, however in this case I think that it’s worthwhile as it’s being spent directly on infrastructure, which literally pays for itself the more that people use it.
Yes the copper demise has been predicted for many decades now, the pertinent point is all this hype about the NBN is based around a few pilot sites where the take up is embarrassingly low, I assume the rest of them in NBN active areas are struggling on all that ‘decaying copper’, it must be a terrible when all that shiny new fibre is running up the street!
The copper has to last us until at least 2018-2020 and various changes of Government during that time, Telstra will maintain it and replace where necessary to provide the service as now.
People will be forced off the copper when Telstra shuts it down and migrates their customers across because they been given billions of dollars by the Government to do so, not because the copper is ‘rotting in the ground’.
“the pertinent point is all this hype about the NBN is based around a few pilot sites where the take up is embarrassingly low”
It’s low because most people still have no clue what the NBN is, combined with havint o *actually* do something to get connected. Effort combined with a nanny-state ethic. Welcome to the New Australia.
“‘struggling on all that ‘decaying copper’”
Vast areas of the CAN have had underinvestment for years. Classic example is the “shopping bag” approach to in-street cabling.
Parts of the network are quite new. Large parts are decades old. Calming the entire network is “just fine” when in fact Telstra itself has admitted massive under investment, simply ignores the facts.
We can theorise all day why the takeup is low in Tassie, perhaps it will better in other areas, it depends on the cost of the retail plan compared to alternatives I guess.
The two biggest ISP’s BigPond and Optus have yet to pilot NBN, perhaps that’s why take up is low, if so it is interesting that the appeal of FTTH is about who the ISP is not the technology itself.
I didn’t say the’ network is just fine’, I am sure there are copper areas that are at end of life and there are other newish copper/fibre areas that would last another 20 years, the reason Telstra is just playing patch-up rather than replacement is why bother when the taxpayer funded NBN is around the corner.
I just said that the copper has to last at least another 10 years perhaps more, I am sure the economy is not doomed because of that!.
There is one thing the NBN is doing, it brings private fixed line investment to a grinding halt,
“I didn’t say the’ network is just fine’, I am sure there are copper areas that are at end of life and there are other newish copper/fibre areas that would last another 20 years, the reason Telstra is just playing patch-up rather than replacement is why bother when the taxpayer funded NBN is around the corner.”
Telstra were no longer investing in the copper network WELL before the NBN or FTTN proposals were on the table!
“There is one thing the NBN is doing, it brings private fixed line investment to a grinding halt,”
That it does because why build something twice and private enterprises having been doing such a good job up till now haven’t they…. BTW that last part was sarcastic :)
I think I know a lot more than you about this Alain, as I live in Armidale, NSW. Armidale is one of the primary test sites for the NBN, as is the University of New England. People have been signing up for the NBN left right and centre within the massive parts of Armidale that are being hooked up for the test.
Also unlike a few of you city bumpkins, the copper within most rural areas has been in the ground for decades. The copper network in the New England Federal electorate for example is in a terrible state. quite a lot of lines are over 40 kms in length, while it’s only 20kms as the crow flies to the telephone exchange. A simple flood will take a lot of copper lines out in this region because moisture keeps on damaging the lines, while 3G mobile coverage is shocking to the extreme even with a 7.5dB Gain antenna. Most farmers have to get Telstra techs out at least 3-5 times a year in this region, due to the damage that copper-lines take on a regular basis from the elements. Optical Fibre on the other hand doesn’t have anywhere near the same level of maintenance requirements, long-term.
The NBN needs to be brought in and it needs to be done properly, not halfheartedly.
As for the Copper network itself, it’s not being decommissioned per say. It’ll still be active alongside the NBN, however people will have a choice between the two.
Kate I am sure you know far more about the NBN at Armidale than I do but your reference to the long life of fibre optic cable (compared with copper) is suspect. It seems to be that the life expectancy of FOC is relatively short when compared with copper. In fact I have seen it suggested that a 20/25 year life for fibre would not be unlikely.
I would think an underground cable would be the best option to extend its life and that is why the Telstra ducts are so important. Also, if the present Heads of Agreement between Telstra and the NBN Co was to fall-over and Telstra was to remain in competition with the NBN Co the Government NBN would be a total disaster because to be a financial success the FTTP NBN must be a monopoly.
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