For the tragedy of the NBN, Turnbull must go

188


Tomorrow morning at about 10am, I will walk into a polling booth.

I will accept a pencil and two pieces of paper from an attendant.

I will get my name marked off against the electoral roll.

And I will vote against Malcolm Turnbull.

I will vote against Turnbull because he destroyed the NBN.

I will vote against Turnbull because he demolished Australia’s largest and most important infrastructure project.

I will vote against Turnbull because he cast the future of Australian broadband into chaos.

I will vote against Turnbull because he has politicised a worthy project and made it serve his own ambition.

I have other reasons for voting against Malcolm Turnbull.

I will vote against Turnbull because he implemented a draconian Data Retention regime which is seeing details of my telephone calls and emails stored in a giant, Orwellian database.

I will vote against Turnbull because he ushered in a secretive Government Internet filtering scheme.

I will vote against Turnbull because he implemented unnecessary and impractical Internet piracy legislation.

But principally, I will vote against Turnbull because he followed the instructions of Tony Abbott and demolished the NBN.

Today and tomorrow, you will read the opinions of countless journalists urging you to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

The Sydney Morning Herald wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

The Age wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

The Canberra Times wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

The Australian Financial Review wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

The Australian wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

The Daily Telegraph wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

The Herald Sun wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

The West Australian wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

The Courier Mail wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

The Advertiser wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

The Hobert Mercury wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

And even the NT News wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull (and, presumably, crocodiles).

It is true that Turnbull has done some good things in terms of technology policy, both as Prime Minister and as Communications Minister.

I have praised Turnbull’s vision in finally unlocking high definition television in Australia.

I have praised Turnbull’s vision in delivering his landmark National Science and Innovation Agenda.

I have praised Turnbull’s move to set up the Digital Transformation Office.

And I have praised Turnbull’s fundamental understanding of technology, which far outstrips that of any Australian Prime Minister in our country’s entire history. He is far from a luddite; and this promises many good things for Australian technologists.

But none of this outweighs what Turnbull has done to the NBN. And he must answer to the voters — especially tech-savvy voters — for that.

Unlike other outlets, I won’t tell Delimiter’s readers today who to vote for.

I will personally vote for the Greens, on the basis that they support a full fibre National Broadband Network and will act to protect Australia’s digital rights. Plus, they’ve got a pretty killer video game development industry policy.

I will also preference Labor, because they also ultimately support a full fibre NBN and have a strong and credible innovation and digital economy policy, as well as a solid team of MPs who understand and are focused on technology policy.

But you must make your own choices, based on the candidates you respect and issues that are important to you, wherever you live.

The only thing I would ask is that you vote against Malcolm Turnbull.

The simple truth is that the NBN stands out strongly amidst a slew of other issues in this Federal Election.

Because in ten years, in twenty years — in fifty years — most of those other issues will have ceased to matter.

But the problems with the NBN will remain. And they will continue to bedevil our great country’s attempts to build a better future.

The only way to deal with the NBN’s problems over the long-term is to cut them off at the source, before they fester and become endemic.

This is why I will vote against Malcolm Turnbull: And why you should too.

Image credit: Parliamentary Broadcasting

188 COMMENTS

    • Lovely piece of FlashPlayer on http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-22/election-2016-who-really-decides/7395568 :)

      I tried it last night, for a 2% swing it gave me the answer:
      So the population of Australia might be around 24 million, but only a small proportion really make a difference to the outcome of a federal election.
      [Approximately]
      3.6%
      or 0.9 million people

      It irks me that in a democracy I have no say in choosing a new government because I live in a “Safe Seat”. It irks me that in a “democracy” I have no say because ALL electors are COMPELLED to vote.

      Anyway, my best wishes to all those who make up the 0.9M-3.1M electors in “Swing Seats”. The fate of the Nation depends on you.

      • It irks me that in a democracy I have no say in choosing a new government because I live in a “Safe Seat”. It irks me that in a “democracy” I have no say because ALL electors are COMPELLED to vote.

        Me too (I live in Ciobo’s nice safe seat). But I don’t get too worried about it, I take it to the senate where my vote does help add to making a difference.

        And even if we didn’t have compulsory voting, I’d still vote….people that don’t vote and then express an opinion are worthless.

        • Compulsory voting doesn’t make a difference to safe seats, just look at the USA, they have hard core blue states and red states despite not having compulsory voting.

          P.s. I’m in Tony Smith’s safe liberal seat.

      • Please don’t believe that.

        Your vote, no matter how safe the seat ALWAYS makes a difference.

        If everyone thinks “It won’t make a difference” then that is what will happen. Everytime you vote it makes a difference. Even in safe seats, they notice the swings and preferences.

        • yeah I bet both the majors are sitting up and taking notice as there’s been a big swing away from major parties (and some seats have been lost as a result).

      • If only they had built those FTTN cabinets much higher off the ground you may have changed your mind.

        This time Sunday it will all be over (probably) thank God!

        :)

        • I’m not sure the issue of where the nodes are is the problem, its the usage of nodes in general. Note the “in fifty years” part?

          Yeah, that part. The NBN was never about today, or next week, or next year. It was about 20 years from now, 40 years, 100 years from now.

          • @ alain,

            “as for the rest of your post , yeah I know”.

            Either you don’t know, or if you do know, but yet always oppose the notion of comms infrastructure progress/longevity, it is quite telling, in relation to your motive for doing so.

            Almost like letting the cat out of the bag, regarding Delimiter’s worst kept secret.

            You’re welcome.

          • The NBN was never about today, or next week, or next year. It was about 20 years from now

            20 years ago I was using a V34 33.6k modem. Good thing Richard and Reality weren’t running around saying we wouldn’t need speeds faster than that back then!

        • If only they had built those FTTP cabinets you may have changed your mind.

          Fixed! I think a lot of us may have ;o)

    • Renai is very much an example of selfish fibre fanboi groupthink.

      The tragedy of the NBN started with Labor’s NBNCo Corporate Plan in 2010 which set up Australia to fall behind with several depressing targets:
      – 100Mbps average in 2026 (compare that with Singapore target of 1Gbps)
      – creation of a digital divide through speed tiers, resulting in 84% on 25Mbps or slower today
      – less 1% on 1Gbps in 2026
      – failure to target areas of greatest need first, including overbuild of HFC networks

      For Labor’s mismanagement of the NBN they should not be permitted anywhere near government. Without Labor’s incompetence and lack of vision we wouldn’t be talking about FTTN.

      • Hey Matty,
        Have you located a prospective new employer if Mal fails to achieve government tomorrow? :)

        • I’m plenty busy enough with real work and don’t have a job in politics, although I have the misfortune of working on sometimes working on government projects.

          What I care about is the 84% that both Labor & Liberals are delivering mediocre speeds to.
          What I don’t care about are the selfish fibre fanbois who care only about their large quotas and don’t realise that NBN is going to become more expensive for the premium service.

          • I thought it was 79% ?

            It looks like you did find a different drum to bang, well done.

          • Lol
            Don’t care about those fanboys large quotas except they are the ones paying for the network in its current cost setup. Which allows those on the flower a cheaper price.

          • “What I don’t care about are the selfish fibre fanbois who care only about their large quotas and don’t realise that NBN is going to become more expensive for the premium service.”
            It’s actually that exact reason why Liberals should never have been voted back in in the first place.

          • It’s actually that exact reason why Liberals should never have been voted back in in the first place.

            Nailed it.

          • I’m plenty busy enough with real work and don’t have a job in politics

            Your posts would disagree.

          • Your posts would disagree.

            His definition of real work is finger painting on twitter so there is not much difference anyway.

      • I’m confused by your comment versus your twitter account.

        The tragedy of the NBN started with Labor’s NBNCo Corporate Plan in 2010 which set up Australia to fall behind with several depressing targets: 100Mbps average in 2026 (compare that with Singapore target of 1Gbps)

        vs.

        “Why (vote for the ALP NBN vision)? So 10% can have their fast speeds discounted?”

        It’s almost like you like to have your cake and eat it too…

        • The LNP promised 29.5 billion for 25mbs by 2016 – it’s now doubled the cost and triple the time frame.

          I’m not sure either.

        • What I want is an NBN where everyone in Australia can connect at fast speeds (100Mbps+) for a reasonable price.

          Charging for usage (CVC) is a reasonable and socially equitable way of achieving that.

          • “What I want is an NBN where everyone in Australia can connect at fast speeds (100Mbps+) for a reasonable price.”
            So who are voting for, then? We know which parties WON’T be delivering you this magic bullet.

      • Mats – My post was referring to news editorial groupthink. As usual you’ve hijacked the thread into another pointless and directionless waste of interwebness. Even Reality had the good graces to post a lighthearted reply.
        Just for once how about u try resisting the urge 🖕

      • Ah Matty…so many things wrong.

        1. Singapore doesn’t have a target of 1Gbps, they have a network already faster than that.
        2. The Coalition’s speed tiers can be changed quickly, unlike their FTTN.
        3. What people chose last month is totally irrelevant to anything
        4. Labor’s “predictions” are a figment of your imagination
        5. Areas of the greatest need are also the areas that take the longest to roll out to. What you suggest could put the whole network back by years.

        The important thing to note is that unless we have a network CAPABLE of 1Gbps across the whole country by 2020, we will be far behind almost every other country in the world…and that can only mean FTTP.

        • > 1. Singapore doesn’t have a target of 1Gbps, they have a network already faster than that.

          Oops typo on Singapore. Target is 7Gbps average in 2025
          Source: Prof. Rod Tucker in How Fast is the NBN? (ignoring impact of Labor’s speed tiers).

          > 2. The Coalition’s speed tiers can be changed quickly, unlike their FTTN.

          The speed tiers are Labor’s since they created the speed tiers.
          The speed tiers haven’t changed in 7 years and the other article about the NBN posted on delimiter today proposes reducing CVC which means increasing AVC speed tier prices

          > 3. What people chose last month is totally irrelevant to anything

          Does the fact that for the last six years the trend on the NBN has been for people to choose slower speeds mean anything?

          > 4. Labor’s “predictions” are a figment of your imagination

          Labor’s plan is nicely documented and archived by NBNCo. Unfortunately it is an optimistic document as take-up of faster speeds is lower than expected.

          > 5. Areas of the greatest need are also the areas that take the longest to roll out to. What you suggest could put the whole network back by years.

          Not overbuilding HFC networks would have not set the network back.
          Focusing on suburbs in metropolitan areas settled from 1970s onwards is hardly likely to be significantly more difficult than some of the other areas chosen.
          Labor’s policy of rolling out to regional areas (especially Tasmania) could well be argued to have set the network back.

          • Oops typo on Singapore. Target is 7Gbps average in 2025

            Your poster child still uses speed tires (though much higher than here):

            http://www1.singtel.com/personal/internet/broadband-at-home/fibre-broadband-plans.html

            The speed tiers are Labor’s since they created the speed tiers.

            So you’re hoping Labor can get in and fix it? Never though the LPA could actually do it, eh? You may be right, Malcolm doesn’t like changing things.

            Labor’s plan is nicely documented and archived by NBNCo. Unfortunately it is an optimistic document as take-up of faster speeds is lower than expected.

            And “archived” doesn’t clue you into to it’s current status? ;o)

            Labor’s policy of rolling out to regional areas (especially Tasmania) could well be argued to have set the network back.

            I’m sure regional Australians with some of the worst broadband in Australia (when they are even lucky to have it to start with), would disagree, especially when those suburbs you mention had access to ADSL2+, HFC and FW even before the NBN.

          • > And “archived” doesn’t clue you into to it’s current status?

            Unless you have evidence to the contrary it still remains the best guide to Labor NBN Policy.

            > I’m sure regional Australians with some of the worst broadband in Australia (when they are even lucky to have it to start with), would disagree

            People in regional Australia without access to ADSL are very unlikely to be receiving a fixed line connection under NBN. In fact under Labor’s plans many small communities with ADSL will have it replaced with wireless.

            The biggest boost to internet access in regional Australia was the installation of competitive backhaul under the Regional Backbone Blackspots Program which lead to ISPs like Internode installing DSLAMs as it was rolled out across the country.

            Labor cancelling OPEL set back the internet in regional areas by 5-10 years.

          • I guess you missed the 2013 election (easy to do I guess /facepalm).

            The NBN isn’t using the “Labor Plan” any more, it’s using Malcolm Turnbull’s “Multi Technology Mix” plan now…

          • “The speed tiers are Labor’s since they created the speed tiers”

            Huh? They were in a commercial rollout for just over a year, and the Coalition has been for about 3 year, but you feel that it’s Labor’s fault that the Coalition hasn’t changed things???

            “Does the fact that for the last six years the trend on the NBN has been for people to choose slower speeds mean anything?”

            What a nice Fairy Tale…so at that 2010 rollout, they were choosing slower speeds? If only that were true, I’m sure you could sleep better…the rollout began in 2012, and the initial numbers were quite skewed towards 100Mbps.

            “Labor’s plan is nicely documented and archived by NBNCo.”

            Yup…along with their worst case scenario (which is what you use in a Corporate Plan). What you won’t find are any predictions…

            “Labor’s policy of rolling out to regional areas (especially Tasmania) could well be argued to have set the network back”

            They actually went to the areas with the most dark fibre in place (thereby making the backhaul much easier), so no…

          • @ Mathew,

            “The speed tiers are Labor’s since they created the speed tiers”

            So those speed tiers we always had, well prior to the FTTP NBN, were what?

            Apology accepted.

      • “Labor’s mismanagement of the NBN they should not be permitted anywhere near government”
        OK, so the Greens, then.

        “Without Labor’s incompetence and lack of vision we wouldn’t be talking about FTTN.”
        Yup, we’d all still be suffering on ADSL2+. Well, you know, 50% of us. And 50% of THOSE would be stuck with not seeing any better than 3Mbps.

        For another decade past Howards incompetent policies set us back. With no end in sight and services only degrading.

        “The tragedy of the NBN started with Labor’s NBNCo Corporate Plan in 2010 ”
        Much better, then, to vote in a party proven to have gone out of their way to demolish the project at taxpayers expense.

        Your comment bashes Labor on an article that asks people not to vote for Liberals. Since your comment implies that somehow Liberals are the better choice, your comment is invalid as stated previously.

        • Without Telstra’s obstinance, Labor would have happily built a FTTN network in 2008.

          My comment was intended to remind people that the Labor NBN plan is not going to deliver world class internet to the majority of Australians (e.g. 84% currently choosing 25Mbps or slower).

          • “Without Telstra’s obstinance, Labor would have happily built a FTTN network in 2008.”
            Yup, 10 years ago when it was closer to making sense. When Telecom themselves said in the 90s that such a task should be considered.

            Funny how that changes, after privatisation.

            “My comment was intended to remind people that the Labor NBN plan is not going to deliver world class internet to the majority of Australians (e.g. 84% currently choosing 25Mbps or slower).”
            Those two statements right there have literally no correlation to each other.

          • My comment was intended to remind people that the Labor NBN plan is not going to deliver world class internet to the majority of Australians (e.g. 84% currently choosing 25Mbps or slower).

            As many others have pointed out to you, it isn’t the tech where Labor let people down there, it was the AVC/CVC system.

            And to be blunt, you’ve just been a whiney, lazy little bitch about it moaning about Labor instead of getting a petition up to get the problem some eyeballs and force the actual people in charge (the LPA) to look into it.

            Intended or not, that makes you a Coalition shill who isn’t interested in getting the actual issue addressed.

            Happy voting ;o)

      • no actually. the targets aren’t anywhere near as important as the infrastructure that actually makes it into the ground, for the speed gains it brings an FTTP upgrade is a negligible thing. Labor’s plan allowed for quickly adjusting to expanding needs. FTTN simply does not and cannot.

        the averages for take up of speeds will be relevant when a really large slice of the nation has some form of NBN but that will still be tarnished by the fallibility of FTTN,latency of satellite and potential flakiness of HFC (time will tell) look at places like Toowoomba though, FTTP was in full swing when the coalition took over and they filled in the last remaining patch with FTTN already though FTTP speeds were inadequate because demand outstripped what provisioning / backhaul could provide.

        my take on that is, get fibre everywhere and everyone will be talking about it and the higher tiers will be used. we are now at this place where having the “NBN” doesn’t mean a great deal. not weather resistant, not speed consistent, no proper minimum speeds, potentially bad latency etc

      • For Labor’s mismanagement of the NBN they should not be permitted anywhere near government. Without Labor’s incompetence and lack of vision we wouldn’t be talking about FTTN.

        You forgot to tuck your Tory in Mathew.

      • That is pathetic Mathew.

        Renai gives a reasoned, researched with references, logical reason why he won’t be voting for the Coalition.

        You come in and call him a Fanboi. That is just pathetic.

        You didn’t debate his points, you instead attacked Labor (after he stated he was voting Green) over elements that make no logical sense to your argument.

        You are a shill and a pathetic one at that. Away with you cur.

  1. And I will vote against Malcolm Turnbull.

    I will vote against Turnbull because he destroyed the NBN.

    I will vote against Turnbull because he demolished Australia’s largest and most important infrastructure project.

    This and because I dont trust the Libs with Medicare or education or making their big biz mates pay their fair share of tax!

  2. Tomorrow voting age Australians will chose their next govt. NBN unlikely to be a factor for many, however the few net taxpayers left will carry an enormous financial burden regardless of result.

    The poor value created by this policy folly, like many Rudd/Gillard/Rudd though-bubbles, is unequaled around the world. Thankfully the Company’s absurd financial model and costs are finally being acknowledged. Revenue the last domino to fall (IRRs not looking good).

    The poor standard of NBN “debate”, even by those claiming “expertise”, has been disappointing. The broader implications for sound public policy is worrying given the shrill abuse & bile directed at any dissenting opinion (despite subsequently shown to be valid). Like Conroy’s (greatest comms minister) pushing for unprecedented media controls, the calls for further bans on speech not agreeing with “approved” positions continues (k throws in the death penalty above; gulp!).

    Enjoy election day Renai; a choice of a big spending govt (LNP), bigger (ALP) or biggest (GREENS). Debt expansion and waste a given, only a question of magnitude. Lucky for you all major parties are supportive of your political leaning economically (deficits), a much tougher decision for some of us (reading the websites of the minor parties).

    Come Saturday night the result will (likely) be known, and life will go on.

    • I am economically conservative and would like to see the Budget trend back towards surplus ASAP; in addition, I am in favour of company tax cuts etc. Socially I am liberal; in favour of gay marriage, increased immigration etc.

      I think most Australians fall into this same category; sadly there is no real party which represents these views …

      • I stand corrected. I’d agree no major party represents all your positions (nor mine). Strange though you’d be supportive of the greens when they’re economically polar opposite (#1 issue for many).

        Sadly major parties’ policy positions are well market researched, often a mistake to believe one’s views are representative of broader community sentiment (eg increased immigration). Anyway, enjoy the day.

        • “no major party represents all your positions (nor mine)”

          The party that best represents my views is the Liberal Democratic Party — mostly represented at the moment by Senator Leyonhjelm.

          I would describe myself as a libertarian, and have for many years.

          However, I’m not voting for the LDP for a few different reasons, especially relating their views against the NBN and the fact that I believe their influence will be minimised in the new Parliament. Senator Leyonhjelm may get back in, but with the Greens and Xenophon controlling the crossbench, it is unlikely he will have the same level of influence he had in the previous crossbench.

          As for the Greens, many people would be suprised to hear that they’re not all socialists. There is a sizable libertarian contingent in the Greens. Like Labor and the LNP, it’s a big enough party to have internal divisions and different interests represented.

          I never joined the Greens because of their economic policies, which are somewhat immature, but because of their human rights and environment views, which have little to do with economic policy :)

          • As a fellow libertarian I’ve also watched LDP with interest. Agree senate only presence limits their effectiveness, but we have but one (two) voice in a nation of millions. First preference an important signal re party’s post-election analysis.

            As anyone that has worked on a campaign knows, the resources required for an all-encompassing electoral presence are considerable.

            I would be surprised to hear of any small govt contingent in the greens. Every policy they’ve announcement a prescription for greater govt intervention. Hopefully we can hear more of your insider experiences formulating their policies in the future.

          • Senator Leyonhjelm’s principles have their limit https://goo.gl/2VDN13

            And I wonder how thoroughly he has considered them more generally. I expect he rails against our smoking rules for example, but try traveling in Eastern Europe to be reminded how things used to be.

          • @ru for libertarians Eastern Europe travel is a welcome change (my favourite part of the world these days). Generations living under communist rule take their freedoms very seriously.

            Interesting, but devastating for the local populations, have been my travels to Venezuela, Iran and North Korea. Smoking also permitted everywhere, though few can afford such luxuries (even @ USD2 a packet).

          • “I never joined the Greens because of their economic policies, which are somewhat immature”

            Agreed…but I will say that IMHO, moving to FTTP represents one of the biggest sources for GDP growth we currently have on our plate. Trying to judge the “cost” of NBN Co without looking at the GDP growth it engenders is like looking at only half a balance sheet.

          • “As for the Greens, many people would be suprised to hear that they’re not all socialists. ”
            It’s a shame that their loudest and proudest come across as left wing radicals. Especially the douche representing SA, forget her name.

            While none of the parties ever support everything I’d like to see, this year ALL the parties support a buncha policies I don’t want to see. The choices this year are a complete shitfest.

            So, similarly to you, the decision for me has to come down to the most expensive, largest, most important project that will directly affect Australia the greatest for the next 50-100 years. Nothing else even comes close.

          • “Interesting, but devastating for the local populations, have been my travels to Venezuela, Iran and North Korea.”

            Trust me, we’re all devastated you’re here, too. :p

          • Smoking also permitted everywhere, though few can afford such luxuries (even @ USD2 a packet).

            Yep, even in Boston (a fairly prosperous and enlightened city) people kept running up and grabbing my cigarette butts (back when I was a smoker) from the gutter to smoke what was left of them, it was rather unsettling.

            It also felt really weird being able to sit at an outside table at a restaurant in Europe and be allowed to smoke (at least no one in the EU was nicking my butts).

            But that (and a few other things) woke me up to the fact that the USA isn’t the great land of milk and honey they like to make out it is, and is actually kinda crap unless you’re rich and white.

          • I never joined the Greens because of their economic policies, which are somewhat immature, but because of their human rights and environment views, which have little to do with economic policy :)

            They’ve lifted their game a lot on economic policy:

            http://greens.org.au/economy

            Though I guess they may be still too progressive for hard core Liberal conservatists :o)

          • Actually the Green Economic credentials are improving a lot.

            I too choose Green over the majors, first because I believe the Environment is the most important factor facing our world population in the years to come, and we will need to manage it better than we currently do. Simply fobbing it off for the quick money gain is not acceptable.

            Second because they support a full NBN.

            Third because they won’t take power in their own right. They will have to deal with a Major(Labor) which means they will provide a further check and balance to the major.

            Personally I have many libertarian ideals. But I am also a pessimist, and believe that in any situation there will be those that take advantage for their own benefit over the larger society. In that situation there must be regulation, in an ideal world self regulation occurs, but in reality this does not happen, and when it does it is rarely effective.

            The US is the perfect example of this.
            The Cigarette manufacturers, Big Oil, Sugar, Content Industries, etc. There are so many examples of organisations pushing their own agenda to the detriment of all else, it is clear that a purely libertarian system would not work.

          • The US is the perfect example of this.
            The Cigarette manufacturers, Big Oil, Sugar, Content Industries, etc. There are so many examples of organisations pushing their own agenda to the detriment of all else, it is clear that a purely libertarian system would not work.

            One of the big problems with that in the US was the legal system giving corporations “person” status under their constitution.

          • Yup… I remember reading that if Corporations were actually people, they would be diagnosed as “Psychotic” I think it was. It may have been another mental diagnosis, I can’t recall, and currently can’t be arsed finding the original quote … :-)

        • “Strange though you’d be supportive of the greens when they’re economically polar opposite (#1 issue for many).”
          Again, please Cite your sources for this information.

        • This channel has done amazing research. I don’t care for the format but the facts simply can’t be argued with (in any convincing manner that I have witnessed).

          https://youtu.be/BO6UcfJcUcs

          Menzies marketed the Liberals as better economic managers. And somehow, despite consistent evidence to the contrary, that image has stuck in the minds of the vast majority of Australians.

          Despite the information super highway now being at everyones fingertips.

          • It’s a technique known as “The Big Lie”.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

            I won’t say where it is from, because I don’t want to Godwin the thread :o)

            The basics are:

            His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.

      • Nick Xenophon is possibly the closest, which might be why there is a possibility he will receive more votes than Labor in the SA Senate on Saturday.

        • Xenophon’s always been a bit of an uppy downy good guy bad guy nut, but boy howdy he sure has made a name for himself, and usually for the right reasons lately.

          • He is certainly more moderate than a lot of the others.

            I am hoping his group and others will begin to bring the Left and Right back to the Centre.

      • Spending isn’t bad in and of itself, but the Government cannot keep on racking up deficits indefinitely without severe economic consequences. For example, if Howard hadn’t tucked away a lot during the Coalition’s time in power, Australia would not have been able to as easily afford the stimulus needed to push through the GFC etc.

        • I’d add it’s about value creation, not spend.

          A few activities require govt (eg defence). However, typically Govts have a much poorer value creation record than individuals (best encapsulated in Milton Friedman’s The 4 Ways to Spend Money). Best their activities be kept to a minimum.

          • Don’t £#@&jng reference that intellectual incompetent Friedman. That man and his entire ideology was a fraud. Not at all surprised you subscribe to it of course, but the fact you are referencing him in all seriousness demonstrates staggering stupidity.

          • It’s hard to put a financial value on some things like public transport which reduces congestion elsewhere or the Snowy Scheme which helps irrigate parts of regional Australia. Or even the court system which promotes harmony in society.

            There are other examples if you are disposed to look for them.

          • @ru cost benefit analysis is a well developed area of study. Direct costs and benefits are easily, and accurately calculable. Externalities more complicated, but models exist.

            What’s beyond argument is functioning, competitive markets deliver greater value than govt controlled markets (or equity). Sadly a lesson that must be re-learnt by every generation.

          • “What’s beyond argument is functioning, competitive markets deliver greater value than govt controlled markets”

            Not always true…for example in the US, the Medicare and other Government run health care programs are far more efficient than the private ones. It’s true that their goals are messed up and that allowing a politician to raid their funding at the drop of a hat is quite detrimental, but Government is not ALWAYS less efficient…
            In fact, one of the more common areas of government efficiency is in national infrastructure…mainly because private companies require far too much profit.

          • What’s beyond argument is functioning, competitive markets deliver greater value than govt controlled markets (or equity). Sadly a lesson that must be re-learnt by every generation.

            Which is why social market economies are some of the strongest in the world :o)

            Social policy or economic policy doesn’t have to be an either/or affair, many countries have both.

          • I’d add it’s about value creation, not spend.

            A few activities require govt (eg defence). However, typically Govts have a much poorer value creation record than individuals (best encapsulated in Milton Friedman’s The 4 Ways to Spend Money). Best their activities be kept to a minimum.

            And massive state intervention (amongst other things). $5t a year is not a “market system” :o)

            Noam Chomsky on Milton Friedman was wrong about..

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72ntkmdF9Yk

            Well regulated markets are useful, but it should never, ever, be all about the market.

        • Sorry, what did Howard tuck away? I wasn’t aware the ALP dipped into a Howard savings account to pay for the GFC recovery? Do you have a reference to back that up? I’m not being critical, I’m genuinely interested, because I thought they’d had to balance the budget as it stood without any savings windfall to fall back on – happy to be corrected in this as my knowledge is certainly imperfect!

          • Treasury makes predictions on what they expect a Government will have to spend in a financial year. Thats what budgets are based on. Almost without fail, the estimates are wrong. In the past, they werent significantly wrong, but the past 15 years or so have been anything but normal simply because the world has changed so much.

            It got to the point that when Howard was in power, the estimates ended up being woefully low, and thanks to the incredibly high resource prices at the time, far more tax revenue than expected was brought in. Like $50b a year more.

            So they kept ending up earning quite a bit more than they expected, which led to a surplus year after year. All they could think of doing with it at the time was lowering income tax.

            Howard really didnt have any ideas to spend it, so just kept it in the bank, so to speak, waiting for a rainy day. That rainy day turned out to be the GFC, after which things started going the other way. Estimates were overly optimistic year on year (they dropped 25% in 3 years or something like that), so when the Govt did its planning it ended up being committed to far too much spending, with no real way to get out of it.

            We’re still seeing that now. In the end deficits (and surpluses for that matter) arent really something any Govt has much control over, they’re a result of Treasury trying to get as close to reality as they can, which in a global economy has become harder and harder.

            But through the whole GFC thing, the extra tax income Howard got was able to be used to stimulate the economy here, and avoid the problems of other big markets. Each to their own opinion on whether it was worth it or not (I think it was), but it was only able to be done because the latter Howard years had budget surpluses.

        • It’s arguable that Howard didn’t tuck away anything much at all having spent most of his windfall gains on tax cuts and benefits which are proving politically difficult to reverse.

          Then there are opportunities lost like not creating a sovereign wealth fund from the profits of the exploitation of finite resources before they ran out of competing sources came on stream. Which is worse: borrowing to spend or spending when you should be saving?

        • Erm, Renai, the vast bulk of the debt that was taken off the balance sheets occurred due to asset sales ($AU72b from 1996-2007 – http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-07/alberici-economic-comparisons/4672166 ). Whether or not those asset sales made sense is another thing.

          Structurally Howard and Costello gifted the nation a deficit – perhaps not on paper, but definitely in terms of revenue versus costs structure along with a far greater expectation for welfare support, perverse tax schemes, reduced teeth for organisations such as ASIC and the ATO. http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/hey-big-spender-howard-the-king-of-the-loose-purse-strings-20130110-2cj32.html

          • “Structurally Howard and Costello gifted the nation a deficit – perhaps not on paper, but definitely in terms of revenue versus costs structure along with a far greater expectation for welfare support, perverse tax schemes, reduced teeth for organisations such as ASIC and the ATO”

            Exactly!!! I keep telling this to folks, and they look at me cross-eyed because they don’t know what those words mean. If only we still had a main-stream media that actually educated the electorate…

        • To be fair Renai, what Howard racked up was privatisation money and lack of infrastructure spending. Which went to infrastructure during the GFC.

          I’ll agree Labor has alot to prove on economic management and i will will not be voting them as a primary, probably 1st preference. But the Coalition is far from rosy on economic management, particularly in the last few years.

        • “For example, if Howard hadn’t tucked away a lot during the Coalition’s time in power, Australia would not have been able to as easily afford the stimulus needed to push through the GFC etc.”
          If Howard hadn’t dragged us down 4 places in the OECD during his reign, Australia wouldn’t have been affected by the GFC in the first place.

    • “Enjoy election day Renai; a choice of a big spending govt (LNP), bigger (ALP) or biggest (GREENS)”

      Spending on it’s own is not necessarily bad Richard. What it’s spent on, or more advantageously, invested in … is what’s important.

      The FTTN/HFC part of the NBN equation is in crisis, despite Malcolm’s hear no evil look the other way, nah nah nah it’s not happening I can’t hear you posture. Despite NBNCo’s attempt to cover their tracks by both promoting the Coalition’s “preferred” technology (anything but FTTH mmkay?), while hiding their own evidence that moving fibre as close to the home as possible has both direct economic benefits to the rollout budget, ongoing network maintenance, and Australia in general.

      Some people will remember Operation Clusterf*ck tomorrow, and vote accordingly (along with other issues they consider important). It begs the question though … if Malcolm (and the Coalition in general) can stuff this up so badly, then what hope have we got elsewhere with them?

    • Policy folly? It’s useless to try to argue with you – you are a one eyed coalition apparatchik.

      I have Labor’s fibre to the premises internet. I can say assuredly that it’s not folly. I can use cloud services now; I couldn’t before.

      Yes. Life will go on. So much so that in the coming decades fibre to the premises internet will be easily accommodated for higher speeds. All other forms of internet cannot be easily increased in terms of speed options.

    • “The poor value created by this policy folly, like many Rudd/Gillard/Rudd though-bubbles”
      Funny you should highlight the government that led the best economy in Australias history (OECD ranking #1, AAA credit rating for Aus) when the other major option is the worst economic leadership since Menzies.

      “The poor standard of NBN “debate”, even by those claiming “expertise”, has been disappointing. The broader implications for sound public policy is worrying given the shrill abuse & bile directed at any dissenting opinion”
      Yes. You really should just learn to shut the fuck up sometimes.

      Just friendly guidance.

      “Enjoy election day Renai; a choice of a big spending govt (LNP), bigger (ALP) or biggest (GREENS)”
      Please provide Citations that show when the Greens have spent Australian money.

    • @ Richard,

      Come Saturday night the result will (likely) be known….

      Wrong again, at least you are consistent.

      You’re welcome

      • Wrong again, at least you are consistent.

        Indeed Rizz, but I hope you weren’t expecting a response as I am concerned his latest suicide attempt was successful :-(

        • Awww…come on, it’d be pretty boring here without Alain and Richard! While I don’t stand with them on their opinions, I do stand by their right to have them. vive la différence :o)

          • What are you talking about Tinman? I just assumed RR attempted suicide again over the uncertain election result. Certainly I’m like you, as I’ve said many times before I want to here everyones opinions especially from those with very ill-informed ones so we can look back an laugh at them for years to come. RR & Alian are no exception however if any of them took themselves out of the debate because they clearly cant handle it (or election results) then I would be at a loss for words.

          • especially from those with very ill-informed ones so we can look back and laugh at them for years to come.

            I think we are in agreement ;o)

          • I think we are in agreement ;o)

            And tbh Tinman I’m laughing already ;-)

      • True Alex, the likely outcome has no come to pass.

        Brisy line boy off target again (suicide?); best result possible for those of us not in favour of big, bigger, biggest govt.

    • Very bad prediction Richard, you missed the target by 3000 miles. lmao

      It be like sailing from Cape Town to Freemantle and running into the Great Barrier Reef at Abbott’s Point, Queensland.

      Back in the real world of reality, angry Tassie devil voters dump entire state lower house team. Senate luddite libtard team, barely scrapes in with the four man quota. Overall state anti libtard luddite swing against was over 5.7%, double ouch!

      They tell me the Libtard luddite team Tassie is now holding a wake and money laundering book burning fest in old Hobart Town today, complete with lilies and hemlock. lol

      At close of counting Saturday night the Libtard luddites, 67 Labor Technologists for the 21st century Internet 67. Eleven seats in doubt. Voting count/automatic recount to resume on Tuesday.

      Malcolm “turn back time” Turnbull, was so desperate he even called all the independents, early on Sunday morning soliciting their cross bench votes. Wilkie, said I wouldn’t support you even if you were the last libtard luddite clown standing and saluted him with the standard Oz rugby “Khyber Pass” finger salute.

      As for Malcolm, I hear Bob Katter, is not asking for the usual $55K chump change he normally hands out as sucker bribes.

      Say Richard, still using the Miniprint 425 TDD telecommunications device, are we?

      Or is this your preferred state of the art Internet Modem?

      Link: http://www.corp.att.com/history/milestone_1958.html

      • The continual drain of votes from the LNP in the welfare states (SA, TAS) and territories (NT, ACT) is not surprising. The LNP failure is their poorer than expected showing in NSW, QLD and WA. A greater concern to the party and their leaders that showed throughout the campaign a contempt for their base.

        Maybe they’ll give up their dalliance with Turnbull and labor-lite and provide the economic leadership that many consider missing.

        Anyway life goes on.

        • Maybe they’ll give up their dalliance with Turnbull

          Terrific idea Richard, they’ll be wiped of the political map!! I wonder when they can do it by??

          • Looks like ALP experienced their second lowest primary vote in history, yet Nationals and independents performed well. it was a mistake to listen to the squealing from the irrelevant minority (who’s never vote LNP anyway).

            Rising fortunes of right of centre parties across developed economies is undeniable.

            Big govt the failure it’s always been. Time to call it out, hundreds of examples. Pull back the middle-class welfare and get people into (productive) private sector jobs then watch the voting lansdscape change. Leeches will continue to demand more from others.

            You’ve been reading too much social media and chatting only to those entirely dependent on govt in your staff rooms.

          • @Richard for; “Rising fortunes of right of centre parties across developed economies is undeniable.”

            Proving only that people are getting dumber & de-evolving mentally; Likely due to less positive physical activity & stimulating braincell forming conversations, or puzzles/games being played now than in the past.

            The new rightwing culture of greed, stealing everyones time away & threatening them with losing their jobs, house & ultimately families, if they don’t comply and become a work robot, doing way more than should be required & not getting fairly compensated for it, is messing with peoples heads.

            With this in play, the rightwing have an easier time brainwashing & re-inforcing private sector mantras, of people will lose jobs if rightwing ideals are not followed.

            Later, RIPP.

          • Looks like ALP experienced their second lowest primary vote in history, yet Nationals and independents performed well. it was a mistake to listen to the squealing from the irrelevant minority (who’s never vote LNP anyway).

            Remind me, what was Tony’s polls saying before Malcolm knifed him? ;o)

            Rising fortunes of right of centre parties across developed economies is undeniable.

            Only “undeniable” (do you even know what that word means?) if you ignore Sanders, Corbyn, Trudeau, etc. and pretty well any poll anywhere.

            Big govt the failure it’s always been.

            Assertion only, just because you assert it, doesn’t make it true.

            Time to call it out, hundreds of examples.

            And yet with those “hundreds”, you give none at all.

            Pull back the middle-class welfare and get people into (productive) private sector jobs then watch the voting lansdscape change.

            More assertions, I still see you providing no evidence. Both parties are starting to wind back middle class welfare, and you just assume “private sector” jobs are the only ones that are productive, even though those same “private sector” executives are what are tanking MFP (running at a measly 0.4%) while labour productivity is 1.4%. Time to tell your corporate mates to get off their arse.

            Leeches will continue to demand more from others.

            By leeches I assume you are referring to the out of control use of corporate welfare in Australia? If so, I fully agree.

            You’ve been reading too much social media and chatting only to those entirely dependent on govt in your staff rooms.

            Right. The Productivity Commission, IMF and OECD are known for their rampant socialist views /facepalm

            You’re so classically married to your ideology, you cannot even see the wheels are coming off it.

        • @Richard,

          If Tassie received its full promised FTTP rollout,(In areas where wireless/satellite under Labor was not going to be used) then Tasmania could’ve/would’ve looked to become a full tech state, maybe even Australias’ online version of Silicon valley… But we’re now an mtm-nbn lotto, so it won’t happen.

          Blame not Tasmania, blame your bretheren that continually seek to keep Tasmania dependant on them.

          Later, RIPP.

  3. I will vote against the Coalition, for these reasons:
    – climate change – seriously, what numbskull came up with the idea of paying polluters to ‘reduce’ their pollution? It just incentivises them to pollute more, so they can be paid more to cut back… Oh, wait, siphoning $billions of public funds into the pockets of big corporations is standard operating procedure for the Liberals.
    – refugees – no, thanks, no concentration camps wanted. We need to figure out how to deal with refugees in a humane way, and we’d better do it fast, because the failure to address the first point is going to lead to pretty scary numbers of them (Indonesia alone has up to 50 million people likely to be displaced by sea level rise over the coming decades)
    – NBN – well, Renai has kind of covered the reasons. :-)

    I’ll also be voting for democracy. I’ll be voting for minor parties and a hung parliament, where the government of the day has to actually negotiate and present legislation that meets the approval of a majority of our representatives, rather than bulldozing stuff through on party lines. More minor parties in the Senate in particular is a good thing, IMHO.

    • The hung parliament was the most prosperous time this country has seen in 20 years. I agree with you wholeheartedly that actual negotiation to push policies through is a must in our faux democracy.

  4. The only thing I would ask is that you vote against Malcolm Turnbull.

    Good advice. Considering the clusterfuck that has resulted due to coalition clown vandalism they certainly already lost my vote.

    Still waiting for my connection to magically jump from 10mbps to sooper dooper clown logic high speed 25mbps in the next 182 days…

      • Forever degrading. Started out at ~13mbps. Dropped over the years. GimpCo MTM clustersfuck will not solve these problems. That is what the twits that squeal about “use of existing infrastructure” will never understand.

  5. I’m voting Greens, and preferencing Labor, the Sex Party, Defence Veterans, Drug Law Reform, and a spattering of others. The “Noambition”, any other party that mentions religion, liberal, or Pauline Hanson in their name, can all go at the bottom of the list. Hell, I’m even putting Xenophon up around the Sex Party…

  6. My nbn has been delayed an extra 3 years.. Only to get flapped fttn . What can I say?

  7. Which is why I told people prior to the last election that a vote for the LNP was a vote to destroy not only the NBN, but to eliminate it as a potential thorn forever. They have done their level best to pursue that agenda for three years, and ironically we have Telstra’s legal team to thank for the sabotage not being more progressed than it is. Back then I was told I was ‘on the fringe’ of global opinion on the matter, that I was scaremongering and tinfoil hat conspiracy theorising.

    Now the very man who tried to excuse Malcolm and the LNP for years has come out swinging against them, because he cannot deny the facts – the LNP (and Malcolm personally) have sabotaged the NBN, I’d even say criminally. In doing so they have sabotaged Australia’s economic stability, prosperity, and ultimately probably our independence, because a country with a collapsing unsustainable economy has very little power to negotiate anything much at all. We now have the most expensive cities to live in, in the world, while our social support framework is being dismantled – we have record homelessness, and the LNP have promised to accelerate this.

    A vote for the LNP is a vote for national collapse. Their economic model is failing (globally), as educated economists always knew was inevitable. They refuse to acknowledge the failings in their systems and their thinking, just as they refuse to accept scientifically demonstrable facts like human-caused global warming. To control the conversation they have literally shut down the scientists, closing the departments and projects that disagreed with their worldview. They are anti-science, anti-reason, anti-facts and anti-logic. A vote for the LNP is a vote against science, reason, facts, evidence, logic and, ultimately, yourselves. In short, you’d have to be gullible or stupid (or both) to vote for the LNP.

    • “Which is why I told people prior to the last election that a vote for the LNP was a vote to destroy not only the NBN, but to eliminate it as a potential thorn forever.”
      I had hoped that the 6 years was enough time to set things in stone such that the Liberals couldn’t fuck it off completely; seems I was right but in no way classifies as a ‘win’. They just replaced the word off with up.

  8. The SMH link says in part:

    “But given Labor’s dysfunction at the time, we thought Mr Abbott deserved a chance to unite a “tired and despondent nation”.

    Well they got it wrong last time . There’s three years and $20 billion on Fraudband down the tube.

  9. Not to be ‘that guy’, but, you got the order of events wrong :)

    You get your name marked off first then you get handed the 2 bits of paper.

    I dunno how they do it over east though, but here where I live in the west, you don’t get handed a pencil, the pencil is attached to a piece of string that is then attached to the voting booth.

    +1 on everything else though, my preferences will be putting the liberal and every party that aligns themselves closely with the liberals closest to the bottom.

    What’s even more awesome, is all the mail i’ve received with regards to voting have been from parties that like the liberals (or from the liberals themselves), so A) it has told me who not to vote for and B) it has provided me with some great mulch for my garden :)

    • Hilariously, I’ve seen web ads for the Libs that specifically state not to vote for the Greens of Independents. Thanks for the advice on what scares you the most, Libs!

  10. “And I will vote against Malcolm Turnbull.”

    I’m amazed at the number of people living in the Division of Wentworth.

  11. You don’t even have to place them last in the Senate any more. With optional preferential voting in the Senate you can leave them right off your supported votes list!

    • Glad I never get those junk ads.,(Liberals – ewwww)

      My tablet adblocker does well… can see normal unintrusive built in ads, but not the junk stuff like that ajax’y ad you seem to have in your screenie.

      Though the free ezine big popup I see when Firefox is opened fresh & I 1st hit Delimiter, is getting a bit long in the tooth now .. lol XD

      Later, RIPP :)

  12. Had one job and delivered ADSL and HFC.

    He may have bankrolled Ozemail. But that does not mean bankrolling revamped ADSL using our money is a wise investment. That Labor have to find a way to undo as they blew all the money. To sabotage the economy.

  13. “It’s not an important issue”, say the people who are quite happy for the country to be billed with the cost of an inferior solution approximately equal to the countrys’ current deficit (which this government doubled in 2 years).

    Since they have no idea how to fund it and even after three years still no idea how to get private enterprise interested in a loan, I wonder ever so how they will cover it?

    On an unrelated note, enjoy your 15% GST.

    • Since they have no idea how to fund it and even after three years still no idea how to get private enterprise interested in a loan, I wonder ever so how they will cover it?

      That’s enough about Labor, stick to what this discussion is for, Coalition bashing.

        • Labors plan ‘fully costed’ yeah sure it was, just like the original Labor rollout schedule was fully planned at the beginning, except they had to cut 50% off those targets in the end.

          The current Labor election policy is ‘fully costed’ as well, they just added 1 billion to the upper limit of the range of the Coalition MtM funding estimates, easy, all done in 10 minutes.

      • That’s enough about Labor, stick to what this discussion is for, Coalition bashing.

        lol, I rate your troll 2/10, which is far, far, far higher than I’ll be preferencing the LPA ;o)

  14. Waste of space promoting do not vote for the Coalition because of the NBN in here, first of all you are preaching to the converted, secondly for the disgruntled Labor FTTP fans from 2013 with great enormous chips on their shoulders they made their mind up back then not to vote Coalition in 2016.

    If the Coalition get in again those chips are going to get mighty heavy waiting until 2019 not to vote Coalition again.

    • Gee, it’s almost as if the writing on this website isn’t just contained to this website and could possibly be transmitted across the internet somehow… you know, if you aren’t on FTTN when it’s raining.

      “If the Coalition get in again those chips are going to get mighty heavy waiting until 2019 not to vote Coalition again.”
      Yup, time to claim refugee status.

    • Renai has said before that far more people visit the site, than post here. It’ll be for them, not us rusted on NBN supporters.

      And rest easy Alain, the polls already predict a returned, though reduced, majority LPA in the lower house…but man, ain’t the senate going to be interesting ;o)

        • Not bad for a ahh what did nbn PR say… “a blogger” :) only 9,999 more visitors then what nbn piece of shit blog web gets

          • Life before Delimiter.. I can’t even remember?!
            Then Renai joined the Greens and Delimiter went down for many months.. Those were some bad times for us Delimiter readers :)
            There’s literally nowhere else on the internet (YES DAMN IT THE INTERNET) that compares to Delimiter, I called it damn it!
            I’m sure many would agree with me, we thank you for your efforts in Delimiter, we haven’t always liked/agreed with what you have written, but it’s been a fun ride and we hope it continues to be.
            Looking forward to the book too!

    • If the Coalition get in again those chips are going to get mighty heavy waiting until 2019 not to vote Coalition again.

      Or another election in three months time even. Thanks Malcolm!

      And you said the NBN wouldn’t have any baring on the election Reality, but look at what happened in Bass, an ALP swing of 10.8%…guess they really didn’t want satellite or FttN ;o)

    • I regularly share Delimiter stuff on my facebook feeds.

      This goes to friends and family, many of whom are LNP voters. This is actually a very good one to post, as it references other supporting information quite well.

  15. Seems we came very, very close to seeing the back of Malcolm of Wentworth and his band of merry men! You almost got your wish Renai!

    Watching the LPA trying to negotiate with the new senate is going to be hilarious, they can hardly even negotiate binding deals with factions in their own party…and God help Australia if they become minority government and they try that plebiscite nonsense on (if they were serious about it, it would have been either a referendum or just a plain old conscience vote). They may finally implode under those conditions.

    They’ve showed the same misjudgement and mismanagement with the double dissolution election as they have with their MtM NBN, I guess we shouldn’t be surprised with this result either.

    • The way it’s going we might even see a minority labor-green-nxt-wilkie government.

      http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2016/results/

      Even if Turnbull hangs on I reckon labor will be able to get its own legislation passed thru both houses by working with the cross benches.

      If they are really clever they may even pass legislation to force NBN co back to FTTP and Telstra to stop building copper PSTN in New small estates.

      • Yeah, well, based on those numbers, the very best the LPA could hope for if all 13 “in doubt” seats went to them, would be 77 seats (78, but one for speaker), so they’d really need to make sure all their party is there on voting days, for three years, or see the ALP actually able to vote up/vote down legislation in their own right.

        Interesting times!

        • Personally I’m hoping they can’t get past 73 seats which seems rather possible atm.

        • It’s not looking that good for them at the moment…low to mid 70’s maybe. As long as the LPA right pull their heads in, they may have a chance of gaining power, but not sure for how long…like I said, they don’t play well with others…

      • Wilkie doesn’t want to deal like that. He was unhappy with how he was treated last time.

        • None of them want to do an official “pact” type deal like Gillard did, they’ll only guarantee a confidence vote, everything else will be negotiable.

  16. Thank Renai…

    The Sydney Morning Herald wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

    The Age wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

    The Canberra Times wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

    The Australian Financial Review wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

    The Australian wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

    The Daily Telegraph wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

    The Herald Sun wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

    The West Australian wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

    The Courier Mail wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

    The Advertiser wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull.

    The Hobart Mercury wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull

    And even the NT News wants its readers to vote for Malcolm Turnbull (and, presumably, crocodiles).

    But of course the ABC is the only biased media in Oz (let’s get rid of them) :/

  17. I was watching the trusty box last night (no the other box ;) and Bolt and other right leaning commentators I was not overly familiar with, were all calling for MT’s resignation. No inferences… he must go.

    Pauline Hanson saying he’s out of touch, plus Shorten and DiNatale (of course) wanting his head.

    Add Renai… and it’s unanimous ;)

    The Bolts et al. also spoke of the usual suspects within the Coalition Ministers/MP’s saying publicly they need to unite (ironically – as in “union” ;) with MT as leader but behind closed doors they have the carving knives at the ready…

    Peta Credlin was on too and while she clearly supports Abbott, she also laid out the spiel of the party needs to unite behind it’s leader.

    Poor Malcolm…

    • FirstDog had a great tweet the other day:

      Finish this sentence

      Rudd…Gillard…Rudd
      Abbott…Turnbull…

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