opinion Just when you thought the debate over the National Broadband Network couldn’t get any more ridiculous, it did. This morning the Australian newspaper published a remarkable pair of articles detailing what it described as a “backlash” by residents of NSW’s Southern Highlands to the nascent fibre rollout. One states:
“There’s something special about Wingecarribee Shire, something about the rolling green hills of the NSW southern highlands and the town’s leafy streets. There’s something special about the shire folk, too: when anything threatens their way of life, they band together to fight it.”
The articles’ central thesis is that the NBN is somehow invading the Shire – hanging unsightly cables everywhere and disrupting the scenic view; taking money away from hospitals, running roughshod over council planning, and – more than anything – destroying residents’ tranquil “way of life”. It features quotes from people like Alan, a humble local farmer who says that locals moved into the area because they have a particular lifestyle, and take poorly to it when outsiders want to come in and “stuff that lifestyle up”.
The language is emotive; it conjures up images of anonymous engineers clad in blue coveralls, heedlessly digging up the peaceful land and forcefully injecting filthy modernity into it; rusty pipes replacing flowing brooks; black clouds of smoke blocking out the azure sky; bureaucrats in black suits making notes about the numbers of petunias to be incinerated.
As I read through the articles, by Australian journalist Amos Aikman – he’s on Twitter, by the way – I couldn’t help but feel myself being seduced by the vision they painted.
Are fibre-optic cables always a force for good, I asked myself? Could it be that Labor’s vision of a national broadband nirvana is really nothing more than a golden veneer, offered to the unthinking masses as a sop to their emotions, while in reality covering up the most filthy, mechanical excesses of what many in the 20th century reviled as the great demon of ‘progress’?
To tell you the truth, Aikman almost had me beguiled with his rural idealogues. Almost, I wanted to leave my life in the rat race of urban Sydney, and journey to the Shire, where I could commune with nature and find myself amongst its earthy people.
But then -– like a jolt of coffee mainlining into my system — reality came crashing down.
The glaring truth is that the idea that the NBN will somehow destroy the “way of life” in outer metropolitan or rural Australia, or even threaten it in the slightest, is the biggest pile of hogwash that I have read about Labor’s flagship broadband project in the past three years since it was birthed.
The truth – as any sane person will know – is that rolling out government-funded fibre-optic cable and wireless towers to rural Australia will be the biggest boon to the “lifestyle” enjoyed by their residents that has ever been gifted to them, and an incredible validation of the diverse “way of life” that Australia offers to all who have been fortunate enough to step onto her shores.
Far from destroying the Shire’s lifestyle, the NBN will tremendously enhance it.
In the short term, local residents and businesses – as with all Australians over the next eight years – will have to deal with a small amount of disruption as the NBN engineers lay fibre around their streets and place network termination units on their buildings. However, this exercise in most neighbourhoods will take only a matter of weeks.
In return for their ‘patience’, many Shire residents will no longer have to travel hours to get to work every day in central Sydney or other business districts. I expect the numbers of white collar workers conducting much of their work from their idyllic residences in the Shire to boom over the next several decades as use of high-definition videoconferencing and online collaboration tools skyrocket by knowledge workers who can suddenly have their cake and eat it too.
The ability for surgeons to collaborate with staff by fibre-optic cable directly from their hobby farms; for chief executives to brief the board from their weekend cottages; for housewives to complete masters degrees in business administration … all of these things will be far more possible in a few years, once the Shire is wired for fibre, than they are today.
Other things will also change.
With ubiquitous high-speed broadband bringing the world to residents’ doorstops, the Shire will no doubt suffer less in future from the constant desertion of its young people to greener pastures in more metropolitan areas. When you can communicate with anyone from your loungeroom in high definition, there is so much less incentive to up sticks and head for the city.
Instead – when many of the best education, employment and community participation opportunities that Australia has to offer will be found online – rural areas will see a rejuvenation of their resident base, as locals realise they truly can enjoy both the benefits of next-generation technology and the easy regional lifestyle.
Like many young people of my generation, I know this instinctively; most of my close friends are people who grew up in rural Australia; only to desert it because of the lack of opportunities that it offered to grow and develop; opportunities that the internet is starting to bring to every corner in Australia in spades through high-speed broadband. You only need to speak to any university educator in 2011 for five minutes to realise the strength of the remote education revolution currently engulfing the internet.
There will be no “backlash” when the NBN is rolled out in any location in Australia. There will not be people clamouring for entry level plans which offer “basic voice services”. Instead, there will be millions of people dancing in their houses as the odious bottleneck on their ability to consume knowledge and entertainment and communicate effortlessly from the comfort of their bedroom is gloriously destroyed — once and for all.
Now, I want to finish by pointing out something about this pair of articles which I find extremely disturbing; the fact that they represent an idea which has plagued humanity down through the ages and which continues to bedevil many of our attempts to move our sorry species forward.
At very few places in the articles about the Shire are specific aspects of the NBN project discussed. Unlike most commentary about the NBN, the articles do not primarily constitute a complaint against Labor’s policy on financial, technical or even political grounds (and there are plenty of valid arguments here), although they do mention the overhead cable issue and the idea that the NBN money (despite the fact that it’s a capital investment) could be spent on hospital beds.
Instead, what Aikman’s articles on the Shire represent is a protest against the idea of progress itself.
There have been, in every society throughout the ages, people who simply are happy with their lot, and do not wish to be forced into any change — even for the better. People who are rich enough, comfortable enough, and ignorant enough, not to know that there is a bigger world out there for the taking. People who reject that world on principle, because it is something that they cannot understand. These people have always used spurious arguments involving the term “way of life” as justification for holding development back in their neck of the woods.
Australia is a democracy — and a robust one. Our national debate has room for ideas of all shapes and sizes. But what it does not have is room for ideas which are based on demonstratable falsehoods.
I’ve often been a critic of Communications Minister Stephen Conroy. And yet when he stood up last week on national television and contemptuously demolished The Economist for what was a flawed piece of inaccurate research about the NBN, I cheered.
As a nation, we must take care to only pay attention to ideas which have some merit. Everyone has a voice in a democracy. But when we give credence to ideas that have no validity — and calls for society to stand still and reject technological progress have always been a prime example of this — we undercut that debate by considering weak ideas as being equivalent with the strong.
In short, some ideas are so bad that they should not be debated. They deserve to be ignored and cast back into the wilderness from whence they came. The idea that the National Broadband Network will somehow destroy someone’s way of life is one of them.
Image credit: Zoran Ozetsky, royalty free
Your story is a waste. I love my dial up connection. Your nancy pansy NBN will kill my way of life. Shame on you.
You and your fancy big city dial-up. We were just fine with the telegraph before you people ruined our way of life.
rofl
You’re using the ‘lectric tele-o-graph?
What’s wrong with horseback delivered post, you sorcerer?
horse burst into flames.
Smoke signals;
“horse burst into flames.”
You’re doing it wrong.
“…there will be millions of people dancing in their houses…”
Chicken and the egg…many will need to have online dance lessons first…
I prefer my online dancing lessons to involve videos of cats on YouTube. You wouldn’t believe what some of them can do while standing on just two legs!
You’re not watching RedTube by mistake?
Of course, here comes The Australian with the negative in response to the Caliburn report:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/telecommunications/wireless-a-threat-to-nbn-governments-own-consultant-warns/story-fn4iyzsr-1226005795467
Of course, The Australian knows not the difference between mobile and fixed wireless…but I digress…
The Australian might better be renamed “The Coalition Manifesto”…
…and I’m generally a Coalition voter…*sigh*
I have defended The Australian’s NBN coverage up until the past several weeks, but they are intentionally going out there to find misleading information at this point — and that is something that I just cannot stomache. It is clear that their NBN antagonism is being driven from the top down — otherwise you would not see so many individual articles by otherwise rational journalists taking weird angles on reports like this.
They are certainly frustrating.
I remember the front page headline of the Herald Sun – (another News Limited paper) – down here the day after the minority government was formed…it read “Good Luck Australia!”.
Clearly a well thought out, apolitical piece of editorialship………..NOT!
News Limited has shown a definite anti-Labor slant, but The Australian is the main culprit.
The Australian touched me in the naughty place.
Well said Renai. And another great article BTW.
I have always felt that The Australia has been biased in terms of the NBN, they certainly can’t claim any neutral aspects in terms of their NBN coverage.
Keep up the good work Renai, Australians need to know the “real” information surrounding the NBN and not the bigoted and politically motivated ramblings of The Australian and their owner Rupert Murdoch.
Cheers!
@Renai – The Australian has been posting outright fraudulent crap about the NBN since before the result of the election. Who could forget that on the day of the election itself – when it became blatantly obvious to even coalition hacks that Broadband policy was going to play a major factor in the end result and that the rAbbott had no idea what the Internet actually was, the Oz trotted out with the absolute crap that the NBN was going to cost EVERYONE several THOUSAND dollars to re-wire their houses.
Best of all, when the Oz prints this shit, knowing what bullshit it is, they turn off the right to respond to their FUD.
The Australian is a mockery of journalism and news/current events pandering to throwback morons who can’t think for themselves. Hell, Picture magazine is a more reputable periodical nowadays….
Well, of course. Picture magazine has boobs. It automatically wins.
Heh I haven’t forgotten their election day reporting ;)
Having said that, they do do some good reporting quite often. The nature of newspapers is that they are organised chaos — collections of individual reporters often doing really good work, rather than highly organised rigid systems where everyone does what they are told to. I know that the upper editors didn’t always pay attention to my articles when I used to work for the Financial Review — and yet I was a good reporter :)
Nicely put Renai. The argument that fibre-optic cables will destroy anyone’s way of life is even more absurd when you consider that the use of the network is entirely voluntary. If you really think the NBN will have a detrimental effect on your lifestyle, don’t connect to it! No-one is forcing you. But don’t hold back the rest of the community just because of your own irrational fears and doubts.
So true — this is an opt-in utopia, after all — as much as common sense would dictate that it should be opt-out. My personal opinion is that every household should be forcefed the fibre — if only to guarantee that the children of redneck hillbilly parents will be able to access Wikipedia while their parents are asleep.
If you think I’m joking about that, ask me sometime how I felt when my parents limited the amount of time I was allowed to use the computer and the internet for to one hour or so a day ;)
Imagine when we get your editor to limit you to one rant a week…
*slow strumming of banjo*
Hehe the first to put a stop to that practice would be my wife — as then I would be forced to rant at home 8)
It’s Valentines Day – rant away…restrictions start tomorrow… ;)
It’ll take me at least that long to find my pants.
“ask me sometime how I felt when my parents limited the amount of time I was allowed to use the computer and the internet for to one hour or so a day”
In MY day we had to self-limit because ISPs charged by the hour for internet access. I kid you not.
/oldmanrant
Confirm…I’m old too…
Yah, when my family first joined the internet in about 1991 or so from Broken Hill, rates were $5 per hour + $35 per hour STD to OzeMail’s PoP in Adelaide. It made it a risky proposition if I tried to used it after everyone else had gone to sleep ;)
used to dial everywhere .. std, overseas, etc … I am old too.
How the NBN could improve life in The Shire:
1. Could have used Facebook to get the fellowship together instead of travelling to Rivendell
2. Could have used Google Maps to find way into Mordor
3. Could stay in touch with Twitter instead of thinking other fellowship members had been killed by orcs
4. Could have used Flickr to share candid photos of
GaladrielEowyn emerging from a forest pool5. could have checked Saruman’s LinkedIn and seen that he was employee of Sauron
6. Huffington Post headline: MINAS TIRITH UNDER SIEGE, sub-headline: SECRETS OF ARWEN’S PERFECT SKIN
YES
“Your search for Arwen Nude returned 3,117,870 images”
I think the Australian is hard at it because if the NBN comes online people in the outback will get their news online and more quickly, just like in the city where paper sales have decreased.
It’s possible, but it would beggar belief for the motivation to be that simple. That would place them against anything ‘online’ or ‘digital’. I think it’s more likely that some of the higher editors — without a great deal of technical understanding — have taken it up as a cause; something to fit into the mantra that government must be held accountable and that big-spending government is bad etc.
However, I do believe now, that there has been some communique inside the editorial team that they are to take a negative stance on the NBN. There has been too many articles now for it to be coincidence.
old media = the interwebs are ebil?
get real
“The truth – as any sane person will know – is that rolling out government-funded fibre-optic cable”
The truth – as any sane person will know – is that rolling out TAX PAYER-funded fibre-optic cable
Funded by government debt, not the tax payer. Repaid by the revenue it generates. Hugely valuable public asset at the end.
Start reading things other than the rhetoric you find in the News Limited press.
Actually you are incorrect
The taxpayer will be paying ~13 billion dollars out of the federal contingency reserve to pay back the dividends on the capital bonds up until 2023, when NBNCo has enough equity to pay it back themselves.
Check Exhibit 11.5, and here
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1582881&p=24
Yes – “borrowing” it out of the contingency fund and paying it back. You know – “government debt”…
— and only then if they can’t meet the interest payments…
— and only then if you believe everything you read on WhingeWhirlpool…
Maybe it should read:
“The truth – as any sane person will know – is that rolling out self-returning-investment-funded fibre-optic cable”
“The truth – as Mulder tells us – is out there.”
This Aikman and the Australian are the biggest bunch of Knockers and Coalition Fanbois.
My Son’s diaper contents make more sense than the ramblings of this collective bunch of right wing clowns.
I like a decent pair of knockers …
I am holding out for a pants free future.
You’ll note I wrote above:
“Instead, there will be millions of people dancing in their houses as the odious bottleneck on their ability to consume knowledge and entertainment and communicate effortlessly from the comfort of their bedroom* is gloriously destroyed — once and for all.”
*Implies a space in which there is no need for pants
Live nude videoconferencing ftw!
One NBN to rule them all, One NBN to find them,
One NBN to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Australia where the Shadows lie.
I say we leave the Shire alone. Sounds like a dangerous place full of Hobbitses .. my precious ..
they run token ring?
lol
That’d be Tolken Ring….
Dad joke of the year!
Comments from local politicians such as “It’s about priorities, I think people put things like education and health well above the internet.” go to show how backward their thinking still is out there.
Hello? The Internet is forming a larger and larger part of education today. Who knows what the education “scene” will look like by the time the NBN is completed? I dare say that the NBN itself, if Tony Rabbit & Co don’t scupper it, will be a massive driver of change in education in rural areas.
The Australian found four shire mayors (including one acting mayor) out of how many in Australia? Bah! What a stunning “backlash” this is…………………not.
presumably found them in the pub. the australian’s journos spend a lot of time in pubs.
I’d like to spend a lot of time in pubs, but my editor won’t let me — I keep on getting in trouble.
I am pretty sure the NBN killed my kitteh.
Yup. 1 dead kitteh.
DAMN YOU CONROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!one!!!!111!!!!
*shakes fist*
I believe the point of the article is not that NBN will kill your way of life, its that people move into those areas of Australia to live a certain way of life, and these are the people that (knowing that the internet is not going to be fantastic), because internet is not a priority for them, in fact its probably the lowest down the list. Just as the same way if you move inside of the CBD, you move there not expecting to get a house the size of the mansion at a sane price
To them priorities would be getting standard mobiles to work, among other things highlighted in the article.
You’re right, but even in that area there is hypocrisy. What is the biggest barrier to getting better mobile coverage in rural Australia? Backhaul out there. What problem is the NBN proposing to solve? Backhaul, among other problems. Fantastic mobile coverage will naturally follow where the NBN rollout goes.
Backhaul is no mandate for NBN, in fact the two should be completely separate (as we learnt from the POI debate)
Both parties had it in their policies to provide backhaul in regional Australia, Labor decided to do it through Nextgen
The NBN will provide the bandwidth such that mobile operators who would otherwise find the costs to do the infrastructure to build more towers prohibitive, will suddenly find that they are viable.
The NBN will actually promote increased mobile services!
Uh, thats not how it works, in fact with less POI’s it would be even worse then the current network
They way that mobile networks are done is they put up heaps of towers that are connect be fiber cores which then go to a central exchange (or POI) to access the backhaul. The NBN isn’t going to change any of that
The only way NBN will help mobile is with femtocells, and using femtocells is a nightmare (legally and technically due to interference). The only way NBN could help wireless, is indirectly, by “encouraging” people to use the wired network so there is less load on the wireless networks
Then why are VHA encourged by the NBN by saying it will allow them to run fibre out to towers quickly and cheaply? Are they mistaken?
Because VHA’s network is completely underserviced, so (for them) the NBN can help by connecting to the POI’s (which I have mentioned before). VHA needs all the help they can get.
On the other hand, both Telstra and Optus have already set up their wireless networks in a completely different, and is separate to the NBN.
There is nothing in the technical documents or the business plan that speaks of allowing to connect your own fiber cores to NBNCo anywhere that isn’t a POI, and there are 120 POI’s being built all over Australia
So therefore you are conceeding that “The only way NBN will help mobile is with femtocells” is incorrect?
In VHA’s case, the NBN will help them install towers, but this isn’t the case for Telstra and Optus? Okay. That’s fine. Thank you for clarifying.
Uh, its not helping them install towers at all, the cost of the towers is still the exact same
What VHA is planning to do (I assume) is to run fiber from the towers into the closest POI, but the exact same would have happened with any scheme that would have provided backhaul (and a way to connect to that backhaul)
Didn’t we just have a conversation about spliting hairs?
The fibre backhaul to the tower is included in the cost of installing a tower, so the NBN will help them install towers by providing a cheap option to run backhaul.
Actually there isn’t, and there is a very big distinction.
If you have more POI’s, you actually reduce the cost of providing fiber to the tower (as well as having more flexibility in where you place the tower), but the cost of the tower is still the same
This distinction is important, because currently the number of exchanges far exceeds the number of proposed POI’s being installed by the NBN
Then based upon this VHA shouldn’t be excited about the NBN at all as it will increase the cost of installation of new towers and yet they are in favour of the policy, care to explain?
It pays to read the fine print: NBNCo will be allow to service “other” premises (traffic lights was the example given) so providing backhaul from mobile towers for mobile operators isn’t out of question (from a NBN design POV, it’s just another premise to connect to) and could be nice little earner for NBNCo.
Never said its out of the question, just saying that all that is required to help mobile is backhaul, and the 2 major mobile networks (especially Telstra) already has backhaul connected to their towers
Really? I thought they were wireless? :o)
Moocows need Twitter too.
The Australian has become a ridiculously partisan rag, it’s the “Fox News” of Australian newspapers. There’s barely any pretense at objectivity. You’ll find more coherent and intelligent articles in paragons of journalism such as The Daily Telegraph and The Herald Sun tabloids.
The Australian have been trolls since forever.
Thank god it only the NBN they are building not a Wind Generator tower.
They have one of those already, it’s called “Parliament House”
I get sick of the spend the money on education and hospitals etc line as well. The NBN will benefit education and hospital sectors. The NBN is a refreshing policy thatwon my vote last election. Lets look at how problems were solved in the past…..
Families can’t survive on single income so spouse works….
Families/Couples can’t afford to have kids, so lets give them cash ie babybonus.
But they can’t afford their first home so lets give them cash ie first home owners grant
Families can’t afford childcare, so lets give them cash to make it cheaper….
All this money went to patch over problems rather than fix the actual problem. At least the NBN is a solution to many problems. Who knows, maybe one person in a couple can work from home a bit more with the NBN. Be able to telecommute to meetings more easily, be available more readily in business hours etc.
“There’s something special about Wingecarribee Shire, something about the rolling green hills of the NSW southern highlands and the town’s leafy streets. There’s something special about the shire folk, too:….”
ROFL. After reading the original article I had visions of cute little hobbit folk going about their rustic pursuits, while unkown to them the dark forces of Condor, yes – TechOrcs wielding weapons of fibre optic, were about to destroy their tranquil ideal.
Oh, look at that cute little bunny rabbit, and aren’t the fields of flowers beautiful?
Kill them all !!!!! Arrrrgh !!!!!!!
“TechOrcs wielding weapons of fibre optic”
ROFL
Will not be long and the nbn supporters will claim that the nbn will do miracles and cook dinner and do the shopping etc.
If the nbn is that good let’s build it and send the bill to the supporters to pay and the rest of us can spend our taxes on things that are important.
@ midcoast
If the nbn is that good let’s build it and send the bill to the supporters to pay and the rest of us can spend our taxes on things that are important.
Jolly good. You want them to build a hospital ?? When I need to use it, I’ll make sure I send the bill to you.
Yawn.
@midcoast
completely agree we should spend money on whats worthwhile. That will mean stopping a lot of liberal schemes as well, which were never really costed on their value to society.
They were costed to pay for a way to cover up a problem.
The NBN won’t do miracles, but at least it is a solution that will benefit education, health and families in general.
@ midcoast
cry much? like you would know whats important anyway!!!!!
Didn’t cross your mind that it will make money for these ” IMPORTANT THINGS??”
Maybe this shire should stop using tractors, lights, fridges hell just rip up the power cables and let them live in some crap arse time they call way of life…..
What is important is food on the table not just some data connection so people can sit on there asses all day playing games or watching porn.
Anyway the minute you are located just out of town you are designated to wireless.
So in reality the optic fibre will only benefit the ones in the city who already have faster broadband than any one out in the country.
I live just 5kms in a smaller town from a larger town and they are having fibre and we are getting wireless so the NBN is useless to us.
Putting food on the table? Seriously? What third-world country do you live in?
Australia is a first-world country, with an economy that fared better than most other first world countries through the GFC. Frankly, the whole obsession with “deficit” and “surplus” is completely misguided. I certainly agree with the Libs that we don’t need a levy to pay for the flood damage, but we certainly don’t need to cut back on spending, either. Delaying an arbitrary date to return to surplus is perfect acceptable, and in my opinion perfectly prudent in the circumstances. But that’s another debate…
Where do you live, by the way? It would have to be a town with less than 1,000 residents to be serviced by wireless. Not exactly “only the ones in the city”… even my parents who live out in Guglong, outside of Mudgee will be getting fibre… I don’t think anybody living in Gulgong would call themselves “city” folk!
I don’t quite understand your complaint that you’re “only” going to be getting wireless, either. Surely you’ve only got dial-up at the moment (even my parents in Gulgong can only get dial-up, and they’re “city folk”, apparently) so 12Mb/s wireless will be like chalk-and-cheese!
our town has more than a 1000 and when i look at the roll out we are not included so much for towns under 1000.
Anyway why should the rest of australia have fibre and small towns cannot have it.This NBN is meant for all not just some.
As for wireless well The NBN supporters talk about how bad wireless really is and it is not good enough for them but its okay to include it as it will only be the smaller communties who will have to suffer for it.
So much for an even spread of broadband
So once again the smaller communities miss out in favor of the bigger ones.
Fairly certain it’s 1000 homes, not 1000 residents
You might be right. I know my parent’s town of Gulgong has a population less than 2,000 but they’re on the NBN’s map as getting fibre. As I said, Gulgong is not what I would consider a “big town”.
See here: http://www.cnet.com.au/story_media/339304902/nbnnsw_2.jpg (Gulgong is north-west of Sydney).
Pretty much. Wireless for country, and Fibre to the cities. The way it should be. If you want city infrastructure, live in the city and pay for it. Otherwise live cheap in the bush and don’t complain.
Let’s take away their electricity and phone lines while we’re at it.
Also unplug that nasty TV and AM Radio transmitter that ruins their way of life.
Not to mention that new-fangled “rock and roll music”. It corrupts the youth of today!
There needs to be something done about journalism in this country. When The Australian can legally get away with completely misleading the Australian public there should be some way to bring them to order. We should not accept reporting completely bereft of all integrity and value. That is not what this country is about and there needs to be some governing controls in order to provide a measure of accuracy for the reader. In this particular case The Australian is suspect of highly biased one sided reporting that is detrimental to a national project for personal interests. There needs to be a way to legally bring them to court and order them to cease and desist if proven to be guilty of the above. These controls do not presently exist and they need to be created. We are not America and a national newspaper misrepresenting the facts to suit themselves is just not good enough.
I agree, Kevin, but I wouldn’t say we need to bring the Australian to court to rectify this sort of issue. Instead, far better to simply provide better journalism and commentary ourselves, which is what I am attempting to do with Delimiter ;) It’s an open, competitive market, after all — people can read what they want!
One of the main arguments of The Australian article is that overhead cables are somehow the cause of all these problems. Correct me if I am wrong, but all the photos I’ve seen in that area have them underground. What percentage is overhead??
Nationwide, the NBN is expected to be about 75% underground, and 25% above ground.
Most of the trial sites have been predominantly overhead because NBN Co has no agreement (yet) to use Telstra’s pits and ducts for rollout.
Once that formality is passed, the whole thing becomes faster and cheaper again, with access to those pits and ducts. The Brunswick trial site – (started last, likely to finish first) – is contracted to Telstra for construction using their own pits and ducts.
In many other areas – (my own street is a example) – pits and ducts only exist on one side of the street. Our house is served underground by copper. The homes across the street are served above ground. This is quite common in older areas – our street still has the same copper cabling in it that was installed in 1952-1953 when the area was first subdivided.
Some areas a rock-prone, making overhead installation significantly easier and cost effective.
Whoever thinks NBN will destroy their way of being probably use a telephone, mobile phone and watch TV at the end of the night. Hey they might even drive a tractor that whines and gurrs all day long and annoys people at 5am in the morning. Wake up people… the human race is full of technology and innovation and we need to go forward to prepare for a potential alien invasion (loz only joking).
Technology to me seems to be freeing up the world and making it harder for governments and corporations to hide information and get away with things they used to. We need new technology. Do you farmers need new utes with new computers? New tractors that make farming more efficient etc
Gosh i cant be bothered ranting to the lamens any more!
O by the way i am a farmer too, now stop being so dam stubborn.
Of course there is a top down directive by News LTD to their staff to combat the NBN, as the NBN clearly affects their commercial interests particularly Foxtel adversely.
The NBN will enable direct download on demand programming, nobody needs a Foxtel subscription to buy 100’s of channels they don’t watch. The AFL and NRL can own their own channel and sell directly to consumers.
News the worlds biggest middlemen will be toppled as will the Free to air networks.
The newspaper industry is in deep trouble (The Australian is subsidised directly by Rupert Murdoch and relies on this funding and “partner companies” or for a better wording “cash for comment” for example the Anti Global Warming campaign in which “news” is really just paid advertising from the mning industry.
Kodak was worth $20B just 12 years ago today it’s worth less than a billlion.
In regard to the overhead lines in the Southern Highlands the NBN is being cabled underground but some housing locations require an overhead as they may be located across/or not have access to ducting in the street from the UG and this applies to the current telephone system as well.
This is not the first article I have read that has identified the biased, unprofessional, politically motivated attack that ‘The Australian’ has been exercising towards the NBN. ‘The Australian’ is involved in some of the most disgusting forms of journalism I have read in a long time. If a person ever sees ‘The Australian’ and “NBN” in the same vicinity it is always a 100% guarantee that it will be an overwhelmingly negative article.
A negative article is not a bad thing, but as you begin to read anyone that has followed the NBN to some degree and has a bit of common sense will see the outright lies that are written in their articles. They immorally abuse their ability to control information by consciously altering the truth to push their own agenda.
Don’t even try to leave a rebuttal in their comments section. I have attempted to indicate to fellow readers about the gross inaccuracies with their articles and my words NEVER see the light of day.
Good on you ‘The Australian’, you have successfully created the first media dictatorship within Australia. You should be ashamed to call yourself “The Australian”.
The only bad thing now, is that Delimiter may have ‘The Australian’s’ target painted right on them. Because how dare Delimiter form an opinion that is not in line with ‘The Australian’.
GRRRRRRRR – I want one of these cyber weapons
Weapons-grade warez to hammer ‘replicant’ sim-people
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/01/26/cyber_range_demo_date_set/
If the highlanders don’t want the NBN the central coast will /gladly/ take it first :)
The Australian sure as hell didn’t ask me for my opinion. I live in Mittagong (Southern Highlands, part of the Wingecarribee Shire) and can’t wait for the NBN.
I am a software developer who moved here from Sydney for personal reasons. I like the lifestyle and have no desire to move back to the city (I grew up in the country). But work in my field of expertise is, shall we say, very limited in the Southern Highlands.
Fortunately, I have good ADSL (I’m <1km from the Mittagong Exchange) so I've been largely able to work remotely. Data limits have been a problem (Telstra Wholesale) but Internode's 200GB Reach plan have fixed that (for now). However, a 0.85Mbps upload is extremely limiting, and I can't wait to take advantage of the upload speeds available on the NBN.
The low upload speeds of ADSL have also hampered my family as a whole. I've wanted for years to create a VPN-based network between my family members (including myself) where each can do offsite backups to the others' locations. With such low upload speeds however this is just not feasible.
Unfortunately, there is no information on when the NBN will make it to Mittagong. But I am 100% sure it will be underground in my street.
You’ve almost found your groove. Nice piece.
Wingecarribee Shire:
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?oe=UTF-
8&ie=UTF8&q=Wingecarribee+Shire&fb=1&gl=au&hq=Wingecarribee+Shire&cid=0,0,13431271638082206507&ll=-34.549708,150.370828&spn=0,0.017595&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=-34.54914,150.370571&panoid=kQzgmLT_7_Qd7k7qc9GtGQ&cbp=12,351.89,,0,-20.81
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF8&q=Wingecarribee+Shire&fb=1&gl=au&hq=Wingecarribee+Shire&cid=0,0,13431271638082206507&t=h&layer=c&cbll=-34.528391,150.395065&panoid=rK-FKPCj0GZTfUOGBhO0-A&cbp=12,176.09,,0,-7.97&hnear=&ll=-34.528391,150.395065&spn=0,0.005879&z=17
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Wingecarribee+Shire&sll=-34.587785,150.56222&sspn=0.026427,0.032358&gl=au&ie=UTF8&hq=Wingecarribee+Shire&hnear=&ll=-34.523389,150.37631&spn=0,0.064716&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=-34.523493,150.376343&panoid=d_HQWwLDyXMMPffLbsnjuA&cbp=12,93.46,,0,-6.7
Yeah, one more cable is going to destroy the delicate aesthetic balance they have going there.
Heh, good point. Even the streets with houses are already ugly with overhead power lines.
Still… it could be worse: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hbomb/2448572634/
TRIVIA:
The lyrics to Public Enemy’s 911 is a joke is near perfect for a mod into NBN is a joke.
A fibre optic network would continue to put the nails in the coffin of Murdoch’s business. That is why he is shilling so loudly via his propaganda platform(s) laughingly called news… Bitorrent already puts the squeeze on fox$mell in the youth market along with new FTA channels like go! and his attempts at online subscriptions has been dismal so far. The best chance he has theoretically is to charge for ipad newspapers, but gen y as a rule won’t go for that.. Now under a fibre optic network there would be other methods of video delivery too further eroding value in his company. Kinda similar to telstra hemoraging money on fixed lines. Like metallica trying to get blood out of the napster stone, murdoch needs to successfully introduce a new carrot strategy, coz the stick of threats and NBN fear mongering aint working anymore than his daily distorting of real news (ie. international geo political events outside of the usa zionist bubble)
“The truth – as any sane person will know – is that rolling out government-funded fibre-optic cable and wireless towers to rural Australia will be the biggest boon to the “lifestyle” enjoyed by their residents that has ever been gifted to them, and an incredible validation of the diverse “way of life” that Australia offers to all who have been fortunate enough to step onto her shores.
Far from destroying the Shire’s lifestyle, the NBN will tremendously enhance it.”
I keep hearing this. How exactly?
“In the short term, local residents and businesses – as with all Australians over the next eight years – will have to deal with a small amount of disruption as the NBN engineers lay fibre around their streets and place network termination units on their buildings. However, this exercise in most neighbourhoods will take only a matter of weeks.”
Huh? How long did it take to get a suburb “NBN Ready” in Tasmania?
‘In return for their ‘patience’, many Shire residents will no longer have to travel hours to get to work every day in central Sydney or other business districts. I expect the numbers of white collar workers conducting much of their work from their idyllic residences in the Shire to boom over the next several decades as use of high-definition videoconferencing and online collaboration tools skyrocket by knowledge workers who can suddenly have their cake and eat it too.’
What a load of nonsense. Done any analysis on the potential uptake of this trend have you? Is it published anywhere? The ability for knowledge workers to work remotely has been available for two decades. The uptake has been non-existent in a statistical sense. Log onto SEEK and apply for the first 100 jobs, but let them know that you want to work from home. Good luck. Let me know the positive response rate.
“The ability for surgeons to collaborate with staff by fibre-optic cable directly from their hobby farms;”
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA! I can’t get my MD to send me an email. He has a bank of secretaries track me down on my mobile!
“for chief executives to brief the board from their weekend cottages; for housewives to complete masters degrees in business administration … all of these things will be far more possible in a few years, once the Shire is wired for fibre, than they are today.”
eHealth, distance education, video conferencing are ALL things that are possible with current technologies, but hardly anyone bothers. Certainly not in a business sense. People are now using Skype (and similar) for personal communications. Skype, MSN et al. all have the ability to initiate and receive video ‘chat’ conferencing. Try working for ANY government department in this country and beg yourself out of meetings. Next to impossible.
ehealth.addinall.org for some demos.
Ever considered that perhaps not a lot of houswives (or househusbands for that matter) MAY NOT WANT to undergo a Masters degree?
If you are a CEO that wants to brief a board room from a little cottage in the sticks, might I suggest that the next board vote regarding the management team might be rather sad.
Anyway, and CEO that wants to do that can DO IT NOW with a 2/2 or 4/4 satellite account. Is it free? No it is not. However, for a business it is a 100% tax deduction.
Given that about 20% of Australians that do not have a broadband (or any) connection, simply DO NOT WANT ONE or CAN’T AFFORD ONE. ABS
“According to the 2006 Census, rates of household Internet access and
Broadband connection decreased with increasing remoteness, with Major
Cities having higher rates of Internet access (66%) and Broadband
connection (45%), and Very Remote areas lower rates (42% and 24%). To
some extent the lower rates of access in remote areas are associated
with socioeconomic factors including lower levels of educational
attainment and income. 2 ”
“Higher levels of income were also associated with higher rates of
household Internet access. The highest rate of household access was
for people in the highest income quintile (89%), while people in
households in the lowest income quintile were least likely to have
Internet access (47%).”
Does that come as a surprise to anyone? How will a FTTH NBN affect
this observation? The disparity of internet (and broadband) takeup in
Australia is vastly more complicated in analysis than counting up how
many kms of light pipe have been buried.
Here is a little analysis available for FREE from the ABS (what great
people :-)
This bit of the ABS reports are crucial to understanding the requirements of Australians.
“According to the 2005-06 Household Use of Information Technology
survey, 40% of Australian households did not have access to the
Internet. The main reasons Australian households did not have Internet
access at home were that the people within the household had no use
for the Internet at home (24%), or had a lack of interest in the
Internet (23%).”
That bit is important when presenting a ‘business case’ based around universal take up of an expensive service that MANY Australians think is a waste of time and money. My little brother “bless ‘im” once asked me a a family gathering if I wanted to play a new GREAT networked game. After staring blankly at hime, the old man chuckled and mentioned “Busman’s Holidays”. Look it up. The point is, not everyone wants the same things in life, and forcing the entire nation to pay for a high-speed video game is just WRONG.
“Around one-fifth (22%) of households in the bottom two equivalised
(that is, adjusted to take account of differing household size and
composition) income quintiles stated high cost as the main reason for
not having Internet access.”
Paraphrase:
“The people who haven’t got internet access, DON’T WANT IT!”.
So the business model is that we spend the same amount of
money that would easily provide health care, education, accommodation,
dental care, mental health care, transportation so that we can provide
really quick internet to the 40% of Australians that “DON’T WANT
ONE!……..OR CAN’T AFFORD THE $19.90 IT COSTS NOW…..!”
That is a big number. 40% don’t want it, or can’t afford it.
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Chapter10002008
2 Curtin, J 2001, A Digital Divide in Rural and Regional Australia?,
Current Issues Brief 1 2001-02, Australian Parliamentary Library,
Canberra.
I think the Internet is a great thing. Logged on nearly every day for the last 21 years or so. The current stance of the NBN is to spend a LOT of money providing services in a decade or so, that are available RIGHT NOW. With the exception of downloading a LOT more television.
Extensive fiber networks already exist all over Australia. The need to be EXTENDED not DUPLICATED. For two years I have been buying Telstra shares just waiting for the press release that the 4G LTE – (Advanced) network is going to be built. And Lordy, good news this week. It had to happen…
Wha should the network look like? FTTN (which is really what is proposed now under the NBN) but with a technological mix of the ‘last mile’ access. Tou want a light pipe? Fine. Order one. You want to use LTE – Advanced MIMO (like me), then don’t order a light pipe.
Whoa a long rant that says nothing. Its called proactive policy making and thinking. not the usual reactive stiuff politicians seem to do so badly.
Yeah ehealth, education, telecommuting are available now, but because the minimum internet connection speed varies so greatly, can cost a bit if you need more data, people don’t use these services.
Before broadband was more popular, only the diehards did things like pay bills on line and conduct their banking.
If the technology is there to make it easy then people will use it and develop for it. There will be companies right now developing further uses for the NBN. Just like there are companies developing applications for the latest new gadget.
In the case of telecommuting bandwidth just isn’t there at an affordable price for many people, including those that live in cities. We need both better wireless coverage and fixed line infrastructure.
If the libs didn’t make this a political thing, we’d all be going hurrah, can’t wait, but because thats the best they came up with at last election… If anything the NBN kept labor in government,
I completely agree on spending though, I voted the coalition for many years, but rather than spend the excessive wealth they had they returned it in taxes because we all know that wins votes. All that surplus could have gone to new roads, schools, hospitals etc etc.
If anything people are generally worse off now than 10 years ago, even though they pay far less taxes, but pay so much more for their homes and other services.
Building infrastructure is a good thing. Fibre is future proof. Its been around for years. I’m often dealing with fibre that is decades old, installed to carry maybe 1 Mb/sec and now carries 10Gb/sec. I recently travelled to argentina. Free wifi everywhere, but they also had a lot more fibre in the ground so cafes would offer free wifi etc.
“Whoa a long rant that says nothing. Its called proactive policy making and thinking. not the usual reactive stiuff politicians seem to do so badly.”
You failed to comment on the analysis carried out by the ABS that shows that ~25% of Australians don’t WANT ANY NETWORK CONNECTION? I didn’t see that figure included in the ‘business case’ when it assumed near universal adoption. Strange that. The ABS is a large and very well run data collection and analysis department that reports to the GOVERNMENT, hence the year books etc.
“Yeah ehealth, education, telecommuting are available now, but because the minimum internet connection speed varies so greatly, can cost a bit if you need more data, people don’t use these services.”
Huh? eHealth is not being used because the Medicos as a rule, can’t think of a decent reason to treat a computer with much more reverence than a typewriter. With very few exceptions, THEY DON’T CARE.
Distance education is trivial at current speeds. The reason people are not flocking en-masse to remote learning Masters degrees is:
1. The don’t WANT a Masters degree,
2. They can’t AFFORD the Uni fees.
I am currently studying towards my third degree using Open University. The degree requires a minimum of 24 units completed at an average cost of $1,200 per unit. $28,800 for that undergraduate degree (I already own postgraduate degrees, this is a change of field). So, it is unlikely that Australian yout and ‘housewives’ are going to flock to the NBN 2.0 Net in search of ‘degrees for all’ is it?
You people really don’t THINK things through do you?
“Before broadband was more popular, only the diehards did things like pay bills on line and conduct their banking.
If the technology is there to make it easy then people will use it and develop for it. There will be companies right now developing further uses for the NBN.”
Which organisations and which applications? More television does not count.
“Just like there are companies developing applications for the latest new gadget.”
People are developing new apps for the latest wireless ‘gadget’ because MARKET ANALYSIS tells the developers that there is a sound BUSINESS CASE to do so.
“In the case of telecommuting bandwidth just isn’t there at an affordable price for many people, including those that live in cities.”
And how is the NBN going to address the digital divide? Hmmmmm?
The people who CAN NOT AFFORD an internet connection now, how will the NBN solve that dilemma?
“We need both better wireless coverage and fixed line infrastructure.”
Sure. Telstra is right onto it with a MASSIVE roll-out of LTE in the next 12 months. I daresay a deal of Dark Fiber is going to get turned on to provide backhaul. Goody. My shares are looking fine….
“If the libs didn’t make this a political thing, we’d all be going hurrah, can’t wait, but because thats the best they came up with at last election… If anything the NBN kept labor in government,”
And will help to remove them from government this time around.
“I completely agree on spending though, I voted the coalition for many years, but rather than spend the excessive wealth they had they returned it in taxes because we all know that wins votes. All that surplus could have gone to new roads, schools, hospitals etc etc.”
Agreed.
“If anything people are generally worse off now than 10 years ago, even though they pay far less taxes, but pay so much more for their homes and other services.”
Hmmmm. Debatable, but OK….
“Building infrastructure is a good thing. Fibre is future proof. Its been around for years. I’m often dealing with fibre that is decades old, installed to carry maybe 1 Mb/sec and now carries 10Gb/sec. I recently travelled to argentina. Free wifi everywhere, but they also had a lot more fibre in the ground so cafes would offer free wifi etc.”
You get to use a lot of FDDI fiber that was layed down last time we were asked to “Do it right with fibre”?
It’s a shame the diameter of the pipe has changed, and the internal reflective/refractive qualities of the glass heh?
OFT has been around for a VERY LONG TIME. I started building my first fiber networks in 1988, so, 23 years worth of the stuff. So how the NBN can claim this concept as ‘new’ is a little strange. We already have (at least) 8 million km of pipe under the ground in Australia, a great deal of it ‘dark’ waiting for a good reason to feed it power. As soon as that requirement becomes apparent to the marketing people, lo, a network segment will arrive. Building ANOTHER NBN is just stupid. And FTTH is the LEAST ‘future proof’ of any of the available technologies. It defines the shape of cities and towns forever and a day.
I don’t know what’s worse, the fact you wrote this rant that seemily has no purpose, or the fact you wrote it at 3am.
A few points that I feel like addressing:
Huh? How long did it take to get a suburb “NBN Ready” in Tasmania?
According to the business plan at the peak of the rollout six thousand houses will be rolled out per day. Even if we assume they are doing simultaneous installs in mulitple locations, that rate of propergation is such that is reasonable for you to expect them to complete a huge area in a short time. I think it is not unreasonable to expect the average suburb to take no more than a month too roll out when this pace is achieved.
The point is, not everyone wants the same things in life, and forcing the entire nation to pay for a high-speed video game is just WRONG.
I disagree with the use of vacinations on children because I believe that it adversely affects their immune system such that it will become under developed in later life, and I am not alone in this believe. Why I am then forced via my tax money to subside childhood vacinations?
I disagree that people should be using automobiles for transportation and we should instead be investing in more public transport options and discouraging motorvechile use. Why I am then forced via my state tax money to pay for road development and maintaince?
I disagree that we should be focusing much government spending on upgrading our defense force as I have a strong belief that with the prevaliance of boarder removing technologies, like telecommications, the differences between ethic groups as such that the previalance of wars, and the associated threats to national security, are in decline. Why I am then forced via my federal tax money to pay for the provision of new fighter jets and other hardware?
I’m sorry, but this is a null arguement. You may disagree with what they are doing, but they are the government, that the people of this nation elected. They were elected on the promise of the NBN, among other politcal policies, and if you don’t like what they are doing you have the right, as does every Australian, to vote for someone else come next election.
For two years I have been buying Telstra shares just waiting for the press release that the 4G LTE – (Advanced) network is going to be built. And Lordy, good news this week. It had to happen…
And everyone here at Delimiter is excited about this too. Because we are tired of our unrealible mobile connections, even on Telstra NextG. Looking at the technology we know that LTE is able to provide a much more consistant experience, and yet, we still want the fixed line infrastructure to be upgraded. It is not one or the other, as it has been said many times.
Wha should the network look like? FTTN (which is really what is proposed now under the NBN) but with a technological mix of the ‘last mile’ access. Tou want a light pipe? Fine. Order one. You want to use LTE – Advanced MIMO (like me), then don’t order a light pipe.
First of all, show me the change in technical policy that means they are no longer rolling out FTTP and have reverted to FTTN. Because… try as I might, I can’t actually find any evidence of this claim?
Second of all, I assume you realise that the biggest cost of building any network is the associated civic works and that it actually costs less to roll out the need en mass than ad hoc BY AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE?
Third of all, I also assume you are familar with the technologies and are aware that electically active commications technology over copper pairs use considerable more power than fibre, and that another (not well advertised I might add) benefit of skipping the FTTN step is the reduction in power requirements?
Fourth of all, if you don’t want a fixed line connection you are not being forced to take it. At most, depending on your state, you will be forced to have the fibres run up to a PCP on or very close to your property. Just like right now you are required, by the USO, to have Telstra come and put some kind of phone connection into your home, a connection I might add you don’t have to use either. My family doesn’t, we prefer mobiles for voice service.
“I don’t know what’s worse, the fact you wrote this rant that seemily has no purpose, or the fact you wrote it at 3am.”
Gee. Ad-Hom from a script-kiddie. How very disturbing. What time of day do you normally apply OS 1 month security patches and 3 month IOS patches? 0930 just when everyone has logged on for the day?
Lemme guess, your idea of a computer system is WoW and youTube, not a 5000+ user WAN right?
“A few points that I feel like addressing:”
>Huh? How long did it take to get a suburb “NBN Ready” in Tasmania?
“According to the business plan at the peak of the rollout six thousand houses will be rolled out per day.”
Oh yeah? By whom? Say a REALLY GOOD gang of 3 riggers (driver, operator, climber) can do 9 houses a day, that requires 666 teams, 666 vehicles, 2000 riggers. Where are all the staff coming from?
Just to get the TINY Tassie installation happening…
“Tasmanian NBN Co has also set up a page on the Industry Capability Gateway portal http://www.nbn.icn.org.au where it is looking for services providers that can offer cable installation (above and below ground), horizontal directional drilling, electrical installation (overhead and underground), qualified underground asset locators, civil contractors (ground works), trenching, telecommunications technicians, fibre optic splicer’s/jointers and labour hire.”
“Even if we assume they are doing simultaneous installs in mulitple locations, that rate of propergation is such that is reasonable for you to expect them to complete a huge area in a short time. I think it is not unreasonable to expect the average suburb to take no more than a month too roll out when this pace is achieved.”
It is a 10 year plan. That is 5 time too long for ANY ITC project plan. It is destined to fail. That is for certain. The only variable is how much money are we going to let them waste before it falls in a heap?
>The point is, not everyone wants the same things in life, and forcing the entire nation to pay for a high->speed video game is just WRONG.
“I disagree with the use of vacinations on children because I believe that it adversely affects their immune system such that it will become under developed in later life, and I am not alone in this believe. Why I am then forced via my tax money to subside childhood vacinations?”
Because through the talents of Epidemiologists and Statistitians, it can be SHOWN that childhood vaccination programs GREATLY reduce the incidence of mortality within the general population.
2004-05 National Health Survey (NHS). Other data sources include the 2001 NHS, 2004-05 National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Health Survey (NATSIHS), 2003 Survey of Disability Ageing and Carers (SDAC) and administrative data collections on mortality and hospitalisation.
Australian Bureau of Statistics. 2006 Yearbook. Health.
Death rates for both infants (aged under one year) and children (aged 1-14 years) have fallen in recent decades and continue to fall (AIHW 2006).
Between 1984 and 2003 the death rate for Australian children aged 1-14 years decreased from 30 to 15 deaths per 100,000 children (AIHW 2006).
Most childhood deaths (68% in 2004) occurred in the first year of life, with 15% among those aged 1-4 years and the remaining 17% in the 5-14 years age group (AIHW 2006).
Reducing the mortality rates of infectious disease in both the Child and Adult (secondary) presentations reduces the resource requirements of the Australian Health system, and saves the general revenue from lost earning time due to illness, or by caring for an ill individual.
That is how health professionals justify a budget to carry out preventative health programs, by RIGOROUS analysis and by examining concrete BENEFITS to Australian society.
“I disagree that people should be using automobiles for transportation and we should instead be investing in more public transport options and discouraging motorvechile use. Why I am then forced via my state tax money to pay for road development and maintaince?”
What are you going to use to get your snotty little child and yourself to hospital when you both contract meningoccocal infections due to your aforementioned stupidity? On a more banal note, what do you eat? Unless you live in the middle of a farm, I suggest that roads may play a large part in delivering food.
How many potatos can you transport from Gympie to Brisbane using ftp()? HINT: 0.
So, unless you are happy eating TCP/IP packets rather than Samosa packets, I daresay you will want to contribute to the road infrastructure.
“I disagree that we should be focusing much government spending on upgrading our defense force as I have a strong belief that with the prevaliance of boarder removing technologies, like telecommications, the differences between ethic groups as such that the previalance of wars, and the associated threats to national security, are in decline. Why I am then forced via my federal tax money to pay for the provision of new fighter jets and other hardware?”
Threats to national security are in decline? Which planet did you say you lived on again?
“I’m sorry, but this is a null arguement.”
Do you understand what that means?
“You may disagree with what they are doing, but they are the government, that the people of this nation elected. They were elected on the promise of the NBN, among other politcal policies, and if you don’t like what they are doing you have the right, as does every Australian, to vote for someone else come next election.”
As I shall. And in the meantime, point out to my fellow citizens what a horrid waste of money this idiocy is becoming. In the hope I can lobby to get the project stopped and SCRUTINIZED. And hopefully to convince same that this government has to go, so they should vote with me in the coming election.
>For two years I have been buying Telstra shares just waiting for the press release that the 4G LTE – (Advanced) network is going to be built. And Lordy, good news this week. It had to happen…
And everyone here at Delimiter is excited about this too. Because we are tired of our unrealible mobile connections, even on Telstra NextG. Looking at the technology we know that LTE is able to provide a much more consistant experience, and yet, we still want the fixed line infrastructure to be upgraded. It is not one or the other, as it has been said many times.
Wha should the network look like? FTTN (which is really what is proposed now under the NBN) but with a technological mix of the ‘last mile’ access. Tou want a light pipe? Fine. Order one. You want to use LTE – Advanced MIMO (like me), then don’t order a light pipe.
“First of all, show me the change in technical policy that means they are no longer rolling out FTTP and have reverted to FTTN. Because… try as I might, I can’t actually find any evidence of this claim?”
You are not trying very hard. Towns less than 1000 people. Towns where it is not ‘financially viable”. Remote locations. Multi dwelling units…..
he people who have no chance of FTTH now, are going to have no chance of FTTH in the future. The people who CAN purchase a fast network now, will be able to buy a fast network in the future. Seems pointless.
“Second of all, I assume you realise that the biggest cost of building any network is the associated civic works and that it actually costs less to roll out the need en mass than ad hoc BY AN ORDER OF MAGNITUDE?”
That statement is FALSE. “Any” network? Is that similar to the “Any” key?
“Third of all, I also assume you are familar with the technologies and are aware that electically active commications technology over copper pairs use considerable more power than fibre, and that another (not well advertised I might add) benefit of skipping the FTTN step is the reduction in power requirements?”
Huh? What metrics are you using? “Considerable more” is not an Engineering concept.
“Fourth of all, if you don’t want a fixed line connection you are not being forced to take it.”
But I’m being FORCED to pay for it, without anyone showing me the benefit to society other than ‘beter telly’. Something I consider is frappery when we NEED infrastructure spending on Health, Education, Roads, Public Transport….. NOT another way to watch silly bloody cartoons, porn, and improve the ability of citizens to steal music.
“At most, depending on your state, you will be forced to have the fibres run up to a PCP on or very close to your property. Just like right now you are required, by the USO, to have Telstra come and put some kind of phone connection into your home, a connection I might add you don’t have to use either. My family doesn’t, we prefer mobiles for voice service.”
So you think that replacing an outdated and quite silly building constraint with an outdated and quite silly building constraint counts towards progress? How very odd.
Epic rant is epic.
epic alright.
Jumps to way too many conclusions as well. I bet 50 or 60% of people said they didn’t want internet at some time. And of the 25% who said they don’t want it, how many are saying that for politcal reasons, or are elderly and thus by the time the project is finished unlikely to be around to use it….
education isn’t just about degrees. what about secondary education, where a town may not have a teacher qualified to teach a class, but a teacher somewhere could run a class remotely to several schools.
ehealth isn’t popular now for so many reasons. infrastructure is one of them… I’ve been to see a few specialists whoused the internet for many things. Although i did have to wait a while for the doctor to get my radiology images so clearly the connection wasn’t fast enough. but thats a good application for ehealth. ADSL doesn’t cut it because upload speeds are too slow for many applications.
Completely agree with many of the reasons why we shouldn’t build the NBN, but IMO there are so many things the government wastes my taxes on anyone who uses the line they don’t want to pay for the NBN are being selfish themselves and completely unrealistic. Even if the NBN benefitted 51% of the population, its beneficial to a majority.
again all those taxes we got back and roads, schools hos[pitals etc got no funding. but we managed to give out baby bonuses, first home owner grants etc etc.
Justin
“epic alright.”
Thank you.
“Jumps to way too many conclusions as well. I bet 50 or 60% of people said they didn’t want internet at some time.”
You bet? How much? When are you talking about? What was your sample size? Where is your methodology, methods and data described? The great analysts in FAVOUR of the nonsense NBN seem to spend a lot of time in “I bet” – “I fink” – “I reckon” and other such wonderful quantitative tools.
“And of the 25% who said they don’t want it, how many are saying that for politcal reasons,”
““According to the 2005-06 Household Use of Information Technology
survey, 40% of Australian households did not have access to the
Internet. The main reasons Australian households did not have Internet
access at home were that the people within the household had no use
for the Internet at home (24%), or had a lack of interest in the
Internet (23%).””
INTRODUCTION
This publication presents results compiled from household use of information technology (HUIT) data collected from two different surveys conducted by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS), the Multi-Purpose Household Survey (MPHS) for 2005-06 and the 2006 Children’s Participation in Cultural and Leisure Activities (CPCLA) Survey.
ABOUT HOUSEHOLD USE OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (HUIT) DATA
Data on HUIT was previously collected by the ABS in the Population Survey Monitor (1996, 1998, 1999 and 2000), Survey of Education, Training and Information Technology (2001), General Social Survey (2002), National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Survey (2002), Survey of Disability, Ageing and Carers (2003), the CPCLA Surveys (2000 and 2003) and the MPHS 2004-05.
ABOUT THE 2005-06 MPHS
The MPHS, conducted as a supplement to the Monthly Labour Force Survey (LFS) included a HUIT module in 2005-06. The survey collected information from 16,212 randomly selected private dwelling households across Australia. In the survey, one randomly selected person per household was asked about their household’s access to, and their own use of, computers and the Internet.
MORE INFORMATION ON ABS INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY(ICT) STATISTICS
Information about ABS activities in the field of ICT statistics is available free from the ABS website. Details of other ABS publications relating to the production and use of ICT in Australia can be found in paragraph 61 of the Explanatory Notes.
COMMENTS
The ABS welcomes comments and suggestions from users regarding future surveys of IT use by households and individuals. These comments should be addressed to the Director, Innovation and Technology National Statistics Centre, Australian Bureau of Statistics, Locked bag 10 Belconnen, ACT, 2616.
INQUIRIES
For further information about these and related statistics, contact the National Information and Referral Service on 1300 135 070 or Afroza Rahman on Canberra (02) 6252 6365.
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/ProductsbyReleaseDate/EC6E4AB45631E20ECA2573B600186F04?OpenDocument
I can help you with the ABS documents if you wish. I worked for the ABS in around this period.
The reasons collated for NOT using the internet (40% of the population) were:
1. No use for the internet 24%
2. No interest in the internet 23%
3. Costs are too high 19%
4. Have access to the internet elsewhere 7%
5. Other or not stated 27%
“or are elderly and thus by the time the project is finished unlikely to be around to use it….”
So you would like to tax the elderly to build a service they don’t want, can’t afford, and may
not live long enough to use it so that YOU can download movies faster?
GREAT social construct there sonny!
“education isn’t just about degrees. what about secondary education, where a town may not have a teacher qualified to teach a class, but a teacher somewhere could run a class remotely to several schools.”
There are a NUMBER of ways to do that for a LOT LESS than $50 BILLION.
http://ehealth.addinall.org/etraining.php
“ehealth isn’t popular now for so many reasons. infrastructure is one of them…”
Rubbish. Application consistency, privacy, cost and agreement of the format for health record data storage are the issues. It has NOTHING to do with the speed of a network connection. This is PURE Conroy fiction. Kiddology.
ehealth.addinall.org Have a look around.
“I’ve been to see a few specialists whoused the internet for many things. Although i did have to wait a while for the doctor to get my radiology images so clearly the connection wasn’t fast enough. but thats a good application for ehealth. ADSL doesn’t cut it because upload speeds are too slow for many applications.”
Which ones?
Modern Digital X-Ray delivery systems usually have a resolution of up to 22 lp/mm (Depending on scanning mode/pixel size selected) with a theoretical resolution of 40 lp/mm (200 dpi).
A typical 12-bit medical X-ray may be 2048 pixels by 2560 pixels in dimension. This translates to a file size of 10,485,760 bytes. A typical 16-bit mammogram image may be 4500 pixels by 4500 pixels in dimension for a file size of 40,500,000 (40 megabytes).
I just tested one on my network which is running at 13.67/0.83 Mbps and the download time was 27 seconds. Your quack must have a VERY SLOW connection if you had to wait due to transmit time.
To UPLOAD the X-Ray using this slow old net took 6m 32 seconds. I doubt if hospitals have a network as slow as mine. However, 6 and a half minutes is hardly a wait is it?
Contrary to NBN fiction, the VAST majority of hospitals and radiology clinics in this country ALREADY have fast fiber network connections.
See, when you work as an ITC engineer, you work the numbers. You test. Compare architectures. Document results. Prepare cost/benefit analysis based on REQUIREMENTS analysis. Traditional stuff like that.
The NBN fiction is “Whine, we can’t do NUFFIN unless I can have a sooper fast FTTH OFT network”. It is mostly GARBAGE.
“Completely agree with many of the reasons why we shouldn’t build the NBN, but IMO there are so many things the government wastes my taxes on anyone who uses the line they don’t want to pay for the NBN are being selfish themselves and completely unrealistic. Even if the NBN benefitted 51% of the population, its beneficial to a majority.”
Fine. Just HOW IS IT GOING TO BENEFIT apart from FASTER TELEVISION?
“again all those taxes we got back and roads, schools hos[pitals etc got no funding. but we managed to give out baby bonuses, first home owner grants etc etc.”
Strawman. We are talking about the NBN.
Which bit didn’t you like Oh mighty Scribe?
Wow dude. That was… long.
Gee. Ad-Hom from a script-kiddie. How very disturbing. What time of day do you normally apply OS 1 month security patches and 3 month IOS patches? 0930 just when everyone has logged on for the day?
Lemme guess, your idea of a computer system is WoW and youTube, not a 5000+ user WAN right?
Okay, so let’s put this in respective. I do not know what you do for employment. How was I supposed to know that the reason you were up at 3 am was to monitor the deployment of patches? It’s just not normally an hour the average person is conscious.
Let’s see, regarding the rollout schedule, who says they’ll roll out 6000 thousand houses per day at peak? NBN Co did. Not now, not for Tasmania, but at peak, i.e. during the 8 year plan.
So instead of accepting my agruement that what you think is wrong shouldn’t be used to decide government spending and projects, you decided to destroy my three examples (all three of which were supposed to be in a tongue-in-check, taking the argument to the extreme, kind of way), oh and in the process, you proved my point. Well done, I mean, that takes effort right there.
Okay, you’re unhappy with how the last 7% are being treated by being given wireless and satellite services, join the club, you’ll find you’re not alone. But the 93%, i.e. the majority of the network, is FTTP, and for the record, FTTN is used to refer to using copper for the last mile even through a wireless solution is technically a FTTN implementation.
Okay, so I didn’t use correct English in my statement about an en-mass rollout costing less than ad-hoc connects by an order of magnitude. So sue me, my point still stands. To get a FTTP connection you’re looking in order of $10,000-$20,000 to pay Telstra, this is compared to the capital cost of about $2000 per household for the NBN FTTP solution, hence my statement.
You know what Addinall, if you don’t want to pay for the NBN, fine, move. There are plenty of other countries you can give your tax dollars too and let them waste it in other ways, I’m sure you’ll have a lot to complain about with them too, but the fact remains, the government has decided it is going to use our tax money to pay for the NBN, and while you can encourage the opposition to ask as many questions as you like, for the moment at least, it is still happening. And spending your time writing poorly formed rebuttals to me is a poor waste of your time. I’m not Stephen Conroy, I’m just a guy passionate about Broadband. What are you passionate about?
You just had a hard night it seems, I mean you had to be up at 3 am, why don’t you go have a nice beer with your mates?
NightKhaos
“Wow dude. That was… long.”
It is called argument. One is meant to be able to present an argument to an audience to promote a particular architecture/methodology/toolset/business direction. It is part of being an analyst. The disturbing thing about the NBN is no-one has managed to present any real benefit in building the thing, apart from bigger and better television.
>Gee. Ad-Hom from a script-kiddie. How very disturbing. What time of day do you normally apply OS 1 >month security patches and 3 month IOS patches? 0930 just when everyone has logged on for the day?
>Lemme guess, your idea of a computer system is WoW and youTube, not a 5000+ user WAN right?
“Okay, so let’s put this in respective. I do not know what you do for employment. How was I supposed to know that the reason you were up at 3 am was to monitor the deployment of patches? It’s just not normally an hour the average person is conscious.”
Have a guess at what I do for a living.
So, if you didn’t know that I have a position that keeps one working in the wee hours, then why the snide comment? Pretty poor form.
Systems administrators, network administrators, architects deploying, application developers deploying, DBAs making SCHEMA changes all routinely work odd hours so that things just run tickety-boo for the “average” person who requires access to networks and applications during business hours. Not to mention Police manning overnight stations, nurses (although they get little time to play on the net), security personnel, desk clerks, irrigation farmers that want to open a sluice between 0400 and 0500…….
“Let’s see, regarding the rollout schedule, who says they’ll roll out 6000 thousand houses per day at peak? NBN Co did. Not now, not for Tasmania, but at peak, i.e. during the 8 year plan.”
It still can’t be done with resource (human and machine) available. And if a project throws VERY LARGE goals into a project plan, then the real world asks “How is that going to be done?”.
“So instead of accepting my agruement that what you think is wrong shouldn’t be used to decide government spending and projects, you decided to destroy my three examples”
Not difficult. I am a bastard in project meetings as well. “WHY?, HOW? HOW MUCH?”
“(all three of which were supposed to be in a tongue-in-check, taking the argument to the extreme, kind of way), oh and in the process, you proved my point.”
You jest?
“Well done, I mean, that takes effort right there.
Okay, you’re unhappy with how the last 7% are being treated by being given wireless and satellite services, join the club, you’ll find you’re not alone. But the 93%, i.e. the majority of the network, is FTTP, and for the record, FTTN is used to refer to using copper for the last mile even through a wireless solution is technically a FTTN implementation.”
FTTN has ALWAYS been defined as building a MAN or a WAN using any shape of OFT topology that ends in network access points that deliver to one or more users onthe data network. The last mile can be copper, fiber, wireless, tickertape, fax, telegraph or bloody carrier pigeon! Napoleon had an NBN.
“Okay, so I didn’t use correct English in my statement about an en-mass rollout costing less than ad-hoc connects by an order of magnitude. So sue me, my point still stands. To get a FTTP connection you’re looking in order of $10,000-$20,000 to pay Telstra, this is compared to the capital cost of about $2000 per household for the NBN FTTP solution, hence my statement.”
Which is still incorrect in any number of ways. You are comparing apples and oranges. The department I worked in at Telstra, managed Networks, the price of a light pipe started at about a million dollars. You can get Telstra Ethernet in most areas in the major population zones for about $5000. iiNet and Westnet and TPG all offer fiber connections, again to selected areas, but FTTP from these three can be had for about $650 pa. The $20,000 and upwards connection to Telstra’s core using fiber gives you a point connection, not a PON.
“You know what Addinall, if you don’t want to pay for the NBN, fine, move.”
I’d rather not thank you. I would rather stay here and point out when the government is wasting money and making poor technological choices.
“There are plenty of other countries you can give your tax dollars too and let them waste it in other ways, I’m sure you’ll have a lot to complain about with them too, but the fact remains, the government has decided it is going to use our tax money to pay for the NBN, and while you can encourage the opposition to ask as many questions as you like, for the moment at least, it is still happening. And spending your time writing poorly formed rebuttals to me is a poor waste of your time. ”
What part of my argument was incorrect or ‘poorly formed”? Just saying so, doesn’t make it so.
” I’m not Stephen Conroy, I’m just a guy passionate about Broadband. What are you passionate about?”
Networks, and applications that use networks. And beer. And Fender guitars.
A flashback from two decades ago…..
—
——————————————————————————
Mark Addinall | Seekers after a Bonus:
Software manager | Then I looked on all the works that my hands had
Stallion Technologies | wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to
Brisbane, QLD, Australia. | do and, behold, there was no profit under the
TEL 61 7 870 4999 | sun.
FAX 61 7 371 8881 | Ecclesiates 2:11
…!uunet!mark@staltec |—————————————————-
m…@stallion.oz.au | Opinions expressed are mine, all mine…………
—————————————————————————
Oooohhh! A BANG address! AND a .oz.au address!
SCO and STALLION had a fair bit to do with building
‘the internet’, making it affordable and hence, the arrival of ISPs around the world.
Still plugging away at networks. So, if I have an opinion that the current model
of the NBN is a load of bollocks, it has NOTHING to do with the Liberal party.
Just, the NBN is bollocks.
“You just had a hard night it seems, I mean you had to be up at 3 am,”
No harder than usual.
“why don’t you go have a nice beer with your mates?”
Don’t drink during the week or the daytime. But thank you.
It is called argument.
There is a little thing we “script kiddies” say in the face of an argument presented such as yours, it is called TL;DR.
TL;DR is often interrupted to mean by the person presenting the argument, such as yourself, that the other side is lazy, which can be the case but more often than not it is one of two things:
1) The argument presented was overly detailed and contained to much analysis, i.e.”get to the [censored] point”.
2) The argument was laid in such a way that digesting the information is hard and as such it distracts from the points being made.
In all your comments in this thread you have violated point 2, and with the exception of the post I am directly replying to, point 1.
That is why I considered this argument poorly formed. It did not mean I didn’t think you presented anything of value. On the contrary, after all I did reply to them yes?
You jest?
If I was serious all the time I’d be very boring wouldn’t I? Is it worth pointing out to you after you point about me snide with you working at 3 am was meant to be in jest. A sort of break the tension opener.
In fact, that is exactly what I intended. I had hoped that “poor form” comment would help you realise that I mean you know harm, and I don’t take things all that seriously, nor should you, for example:
FTTN is technically everything you said it is, however, because this is not a technical forum populated with engineers, it a news site reporting on events and technological developments, we can assume therefore we are talking to layman, and the layman considers FTTN a solution using copper pairs for the last mile. Now I know being technically accurate it helpful, and helps us not confuse things, but there is also a little thing called know your audience.
And your audience is saying lay off a bit. Or didn’t you notice Renai and Justin’s comments?
NightKhaos
>It is called argument.
“There is a little thing we “script kiddies” say in the face of an argument presented such as yours, it is called TL;DR.
TL;DR is often interrupted to mean by the person presenting the argument, such as yourself, that the other side is lazy, which can be the case but more often than not it is one of two things:
1) The argument presented was overly detailed and contained to much analysis, i.e.”get to the [censored] point”.”
Problem being, it seems the supporters of the NBN have the attention span of a flea and NO analytical skills whatsoever.
One page is NOT considered to long to read when you step out of the world of Tweet or IRC.
The point is; “The NBN model is a load of crap and needs to be scrapped.”. Presenting an opinion is worthless. WHY is it crap?
“2) The argument was laid in such a way that digesting the information is hard and as such it distracts from the points being made.
In all your comments in this thread you have violated point 2, and with the exception of the post I am directly replying to, point 1.”
Then I assume you do not work in IT nor hold a degree. The level of comprehension needed to understand the snips I penned is very minor indeed. However, you feel quite qualified to have a technical input into why the country needs to spend $50 BILLION? Amazing!
“That is why I considered this argument poorly formed. It did not mean I didn’t think you presented anything of value. On the contrary, after all I did reply to them yes?”
I am deeply in your debt…..
>You jest?
“If I was serious all the time I’d be very boring wouldn’t I? Is it worth pointing out to you after you point about me snide with you working at 3 am was meant to be in jest. A sort of break the tension opener.
In fact, that is exactly what I intended. I had hoped that “poor form” comment would help you realise that I mean you know harm, and I don’t take things all that seriously, nor should you, ”
I take NETWORKS and MONEY VERY SERIOUSLY.
“for example:
FTTN is technically everything you said it is, however, because this is not a technical forum populated with engineers, it a news site reporting on events and technological developments, we can assume therefore we are talking to layman, and the layman considers FTTN a solution using copper pairs for the last mile.”
Then it is my duty to educate, before a disgusting amount of money is wasted.
“Now I know being technically accurate it helpful, and helps us not confuse things, but there is also a little thing called know your audience.”
People who are network illiterates usually start off something like “We don’t really understand this crap, guide us through it…”. Fine. Then you get to ASK QUESTIONS not GIVE OPINIONS.
“And your audience is saying lay off a bit. Or didn’t you notice Renai and Justin’s comments?”
Shrug? I care little about people that can’t learn. However, when NBN groupies trot out “We can’t do eHealth, eTraining wiffout an NBN FTTH” then rubbish presented in a public forum needs to be addressed and challenged.
Your arhument has valid points. However as you know very little about me and my peers, I can definately say I have a lot of experience in this field and so do many of my peers and we definately would take offense to saying we have no attention span or analytical skills. Most of us have lives as well and lets face it, for now the argument has been won and the NBN is being built.
However despite your argument, points that people don’t want it and it costs too much are purely opinions, despite the stats you provide. We differ in our opinion and you have failed to give me an argument why the NBN should not be built.
Wireless is not a valid option, although we do need better wireless coverage for mobile devices.
Cost is not a valid reason, because anyone pro NBN could find many other things they deem unnecessary government expenses. Even need and use is not valid. I don’t have time to look up stats, but when dialup was around plenty of people I know said they didn’t need the internet. Now most do, including grandparents etc. I see NBN in the same way. When its built there will be uses for it, that drive uptake. The simplistic view its for faster internet and more TV is just not a valid point. It will definately be used for more than that.
Justin
“Your arhument has valid points.”
Of course.
“However as you know very little about me and my peers, I can definately say I have a lot of experience in this field and so do many of my peers and we definately would take offense to saying we have no attention span or analytical skills.”
With apologies, however, just down there a post or two you explained how you can’t do because you don’t have a FASTER network. THEN GET ONE! Don’t wait for the rest of the nation to build one for you. What are you going to do? Put your business on hold for a decade and cross your fingers that all goes well? Take as much offense as you like, but that shows NO analysis skills whatsoever.
“Most of us have lives as well and lets face it, for now the argument has been won and the NBN is being built.”
Well, the one in Townsville is being re-built. That lasted two weeks. GOOD PLANNING!
“However despite your argument, points that people don’t want it and it costs too much are purely opinions, despite the stats you provide.”
If I present peer reviewed statistics from the premier data collection organisation we have access to, and the data SHOWS that a LARGE percentage of Australians DO NOT WANT ANY internet connection, how can that be opinion?
It is FACT. It is just unpleasant for you to be exposed to. You LUV the net, so, EVERYONE should LUV the net. Hint: Many do not.
“We differ in our opinion and you have failed to give me an argument why the NBN should not be built.”
You have failed to show any analytical skills yo mean.
“Wireless is not a valid option, although we do need better wireless coverage for mobile devices.”
Huh? I thort the GODS OF NBN are going to shove wireless at all those poor unfortunates in the bush?
“Cost is not a valid reason,”
Cost is ALWAYS a valid reason dearest child.
“because anyone pro NBN could find many other things they deem unnecessary government expenses. Even need and use is not valid. ”
So, no analysis is valid apart from “I want ONE! MUMMIE! I WANT ONE!”
See why I am somewhat less than impressed with the technical skills of the average NBN groupie?
“I don’t have time to look up stats,”
Tssskkk. That sorta excludes you from EVERY white collar position on the planet.
“but when dialup was around plenty of people I know said they didn’t need the internet. Now most do, including grandparents etc. I see NBN in the same way. When its built there will be uses for it, that drive uptake.”
It has NEVER worked that way in the past. Why is the whole history of technical development for the whole of mankind going to turn upside down just for the NBN? Computers were not invented for ‘fun’ and a hope that someone would think of something to do with one. Artillery people needed to calculate LARGE ballistic tables, and the USA census got too LARGE to do by hand. The first two applications that REQUIRED an automatic calculator and the logic has stayed the same EVER SINCE. Identify a REQUIREMENT and the ENGINEER the SOLUTION.
Fast forward: What came first? Bomber planes or RADAR? Hmmmmm?
Fast forward. What came first? HTML from CERN or common use of broadband? Hmmmmm?
“The simplistic view its for faster internet and more TV is just not a valid point. It will definately be used for more than that.”
Like what?
I live in the “Shire” (Bowral). I’m a photographer, and the number of people who still can’t receive a file bigger than 10 MB is ridiculous. I regularly shot more than 4 GB a session, so they get a disk. Bring on the NBN I say. The sooner the better.
I think you will find that is a limit set by the mail server at the ISP. Nothing at all to do with an NBN or lack thereof.
If MOST of the NBN users are going to be running at 12 Mbps, getting a 4GB attachment from you, if allowed by the ISP, would tie up his or her net connection for (32,000,000,000 bits div 12,000,000 == 2,667 secs) about 45 minutes. That would annoy the crap out of me.
I think you’ll find that he wouldn’t be emailing his clients a 4GB disc.
But at least with decent internet speeds he could email large files.
Whether you agree that we need the NBN or not, we definately have a lot of blackspots. I live in a city and my suburb, because the exchange is for a commercial suburb and one residential suburb, ADSL2 is non existant, however i also need faster upload speeds than currently available with ADSL2.
So I don’t care how its delivered to me, but I like many others have a need for faster internet, because companies like Telstra have failed a lot of the people in australia. Having saiod that the alternatives are worse and thus I’m a Telstra customer by default because the options are limited.
Justin
“I think you’ll find that he wouldn’t be emailing his clients a 4GB disc.”
I am amazed the number of NBN groupies are also mind-readers.
Yet again, someone posts YAH the NBN coz I goot up to 4GB OR MORE!
And the rather obvious implication is and was that he would rather deliver his (this
work) via the internet rather than DVD or other storage media.
With a small amount of arithmetic (primary school math) we see
that at NBN speeds his customers are LIKELY (NBN statistics) to
have, this is still impractical. Another NBN application shot down
in flames using 30 seconds worth of analysis.
“But at least with decent internet speeds he could email large files.”
What does “large” mean?
“Whether you agree that we need the NBN or not, we definately have a lot of blackspots.”
Yes, and I’d like those attended to in somewhat less than a decade.
” I live in a city and my suburb, because the exchange is for a commercial suburb and one residential suburb,”
Where?
” ADSL2 is non existant, however i also need faster upload speeds than currently available with ADSL2.”
Fine. Why?
“So I don’t care how its delivered to me, but I like many others have a need for faster internet, because companies like Telstra have failed a lot of the people in australia. Having saiod that the alternatives are worse and thus I’m a Telstra customer by default because the options are limited.”
And what have you done to solve these HUGE problems of yours?
Buy a 4m dish and stick it on the roof. Can you get cable? Host a machine in a place with a fast pipe and use your slow service just to VPN or ssh() or CITRIX onto your remote development machine and do your work using that architecture. I did that recently working from Tiwi where I could only get 54Kbps, I used that to CPANEL into my server in the USA which is sitting in a data room with a huge pipe, and worked from that machine. Not a very difficult architecture to figure out is it? I turned my 54Kbps into 25Mbps by skipping onto another machine in another location. This is what the net is USEFUL for!
There are many,many, many ways to solve architectural problems other than creating the BIGGEST, MOST EXPENSIVE solution you and your mates can think of. Especially when the resultant architecture has little value apart from delivering television. Shrug.
The NBN is ignoring the BIGGEST trends in internet usage emerging this decade. Mobile computing. ‘The Cloud’ being, SaaS, utility computing, platform computing and service commerce platforms. Social networking.
I am yet to hear how 100 Mbps is going to assist small business! Unless you think that EVERY small business in Australia is going to build a LAMP server, learn *NIX system administration including mail(), DNS, squid, load balancing, failover, managed backups. Then learn Apache2 configuration, PHP skills, Javascript, CSS2/3, HTML4/5, FLASH, mySQL, B2B transactions and then run up a server room!
I am sure every plumber in the country is going to regard this as a jolly good plan.
Still looks like television is the only real purpose identified as yet.
And the rather obvious implication is and was that he would rather deliver his (this
work) via the internet rather than DVD or other storage media.
And his customers may rather recieve his media in this manner as well, maybe 45 minutes waiting for the file to download is more convient than them waiting 3 to 4 days for the disk to be posted?
And while his customers may have to wait 45 minutes to download it, under the current arch (1Mbps) he would have to wait apporximately 24 hours for it to upload. If he got a 100Mbps/40Mbps plan, that time is reduced to about 13 minutes. There is your benefit for small business while you’re at it. He doesn’t even need to host his own server in his office to justify that 100Mbps plan.
And using remote systems in order increase effective bandwidth? That’s fine if the work you’re trying to do is say, a text only SSH session, but I’d much like to see a video editor being asked to do a quick edit to a film when he happens to have the all the raw fotage on a NAS sitting at home, do what you just suggested by dialup, or even a 4m dish.
Now let’s see, he could happen to have a 100Mbps plan sitting at home meaning he can do this kinda work on the field because he knows wherever he goes will have at least 12Mbps and thus be able to handle a 720p stream of medium via an VNC session, allowing him to quickly edit that video without having to travel serveal hows to get back to his studio at home. There’s another application for small business.
Now I know exactly what you’re going to say, you’re going to say, and this justifies $50 billion does it? Well honestly, probably not. But there are other applications for the NBN than just Television. Any plan needs to embrace these uses and if at all possible intergrate them, but you can’t do that if you completely ignore them now can you? And that is what the Liberals have done all too often.
“What about upload?” I have seen this question put to Mr Turnbull mutiple times, and each time is was plantively ignored. This is exactly the same thing you just critisied the NBN plan for, completely ignoring a trend in computing (mobile computing) in order to justify itself.
You want a cheaper alternative? Fine. You want that alternative to not waste already in place infrastructure by overbuilding it? Fine. You want that alternative to be cost effective enough it addresses the government’s fiscal responsiblity? Fine. But while you’re at it designing this wonderful plan, take a minute to consider why the NBN is so popular, even if a couple of the reasons are flawed.
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