news Herald Sun columnist Terry McCrann has published an article praising Malcolm Turnbull’s stewardship of the NBN project as his “greatest and unqualified achievement in Government”, but has based his argument on a number of inaccurate statements regarding the project.
McCrann has been a long-time columnist for News Limited newspapers, especially the Herald-Sun in Victoria. He primarily commentates on economic matters. In this role, McCrann has been a long-term critic of Labor’s Fibre to the Premises version of the NBN.
In June 2010, for example, just one year after Labor launched FTTP version of the NBN project, McCrann described the project as a “multi-billion dollar disaster”, while in August 2015 the columnist accused those backing what McCrann said was Labor’s “fantasy” FTTP model of “complete financial indifference verging on total financial illiteracy”.
On Tuesday this week, McCrann published an article entitled “Turnbull got it right on NBN”. Delimiter recommends readers click here for the full article.
In the article, the columnist praised Turnbull’s stewardship of the NBN, describing it as his “greatest and unqualified achievement in Government”.
McCrann’s central argument appears to be that, by switching the NBN’s model away from Labor’s FTTP approach and to a ‘Multi-Technology Mix’ model which re-uses the copper and HFC cable networks owned by Telstra and Optus, Turnbull has been able to successfully reform the project.
However, the columnist appears to have made a number of basic factual errors in his article.
The most glaring problem is that McCrann appears to attribute much of the progress which the NBN rollout has made over the past two and a half years since the Coalition has been in power to Turnbull’s NBN strategy, noting that the NBN announced this week that it has about a million customers, compared to about 100,000 when the Coalition took power.
However, the columnist does not appear to have informed readers that the vast majority of those customers are connected to Labor’s original FTTP model. The Coalition has made little progress so far connecting customers to its MTM technologies.
In addition, this ‘ramp-up’ was predicted by both the NBN company and Labor. It took a number of years for the setup of the NBN company to take place from 2009; the rollout was always scheduled to accelerate in later years.
For both of these reasons, most of the NBN’s current success can be directly attributed to Labor, not the Coalition.
McCrann also included a number of other common misconceptions about the NBN in his article, claiming that Labor’s version of the NBN could cost more than $100 billion, that it could take until 2030 to connect Australians, that 25Mbps is the broadband speed that most people want, and that it would cost more to provide customers with much higher speeds on the NBN.
McCrann also praised the NBN’s financial performance under the Coalition.
However, these statements are demonstrably inaccurate or at best highly contested.
The NBN Strategic Review (PDF), conducted under Turnbull as Communications Minister, found that a reworked FTTP version of the NBN could be delivered at a cost of $64 billion by 2023.
The Strategic Review also showed that this version of the NBN would make a return on the Government’s investment of about 4 percent. This means that the NBN would actually make a profit for the Government — it would not, in effect, cost the taxpayer anything.
McCrann is correct that most NBN customers have taken up lower speed tiers on the network – 12Mbps or 25Mbps, instead of higher speed tiers such as 100Mbps or even 1Gbps.
However, the slow take-up of high-end NBN services has been linked to the company’s pricing structure, with figures such as Stephen Baxter — celebrated entrepreneur and co-founder of fibre telco PIPE Networks — stating their disbelief that the NBN company charged customers more for accessing higher speeds, rather than incentivising them to use the full capacity of the NBN network.
In short, many experts believe Australians would take up the higher NBN speeds in much greater numbers if the NBN company reworked its much-criticised wholesale pricing model. In addition, it is not clear that unlocking these higher speeds would actually cost the NBN anything, because it has already invested the capital needed to build its network — it does not cost the company any more to run higher speeds over its existing infrastructure.
Likewise, globally, most telecommunications experts agree that broadband networks are trending towards the availability and need for gigabit speeds.
Technology figures such as Atlassian co-founder Mike Cannon-Brookes — one of Australia’s most successful technology entrepreneurs — and others have stated in public that gigabit speeds are essential for the nation’s long-term development. In addition, internationally telcos such as AT&T, Google, Verizon and more are talking up the need for such speeds.
In terms of the NBN company’s financial performance under the Coalition, McCrann is again inaccurate in this area.
The cost of remediating the copper and HFC cable networks for the NBN has been higher than expected, and revenues under Turnbull’s MTM model have been lower than the previous FTTP model, meaning that the rate of return on the Government’s investment has sunk lower than under Labor.
In fact, the NBN may actually be in some financial trouble.
In the recent Federal Budget, the Government revealed it had put together a special taskforce to determine how to fund its modified rollout of the NBN, with the project’s costs ballooning and the public purse running dry of funds to support it.
A key issue for the NBN is that it is not clear whether its sinking projected rate of return under the Coalition will allow it to borrow money from the private sector to complete the network rollout.
Finance Minister Mathias Cormann was forced to admit earlier this month that the Government did not yet know how the NBN company would fund the remainder of its rollout.
McCrann’s article comes as Australia’s conservative media appears to have recently launched a spate of attacks on Labor’s NBN approach, linked to this year’s Federal Election.
The Australian and The Financial Review newspapers have both published articles stridently attacking Labor’s NBN approach, despite the fact that Labor itself has not yet launched its new NBN policy for this year’s election. In addition, free market think tanks such as the IPA have also come out attacking Labor on the issue.
In comparison, these media outlets have not levied the same amount of criticism at the Coalition’s alternative model.
Image credit: Enrico Corno, royalty free
reworked FTTP version of the NBN could be delivered at a cost of $44 billion by 2023.
Should be $64
Cheers, fixed.
SR Scenario 2 with the Peak Funding at $64B is not headed ‘reworked FTTP’ it is headed ‘Radically Redesigned FTTP’.
A radical redesign indicates major changes to the FTTP model to meet that figure.
Scenario 6: Optimised Multi-technology mix has that peak funding figure at $41B.
The SR was released in December 2013, CP 16 released August 2015 updates the funding estimates.
Lol devoid can you point in the CP16 where there is an update for the continue rollout of FTTP.
Continued rollout of FTTP beyond hangover brownfield build contracts and greenfields was not Coalition NBN policy.
Underpinning Coalition fixed line MtM policy was using existing copper and HFC infrastructure and not overbuilding them with FTTP.
Lol devoid
Well let’s see page 39 has
“Management and the Board have not taken a view on assumptions beyond that time, and no better estimates exist than the assumptions applied in the Strategic Review dated December 2013.”
So that means no better estimates exist than the SR S2 of $64B. Makes the complete joke of the up to $56B mess we have now.
JK,
ok, let’s play your game.
So you are comfortable with the peak funding requirements of SR Scenario 6: Optimised MtM being locked in at $41B?
because you really love this:
no better estimates exist than the assumptions applied in the Strategic Review dated December 2013.
Lol devoid unlike s2 the cp16 is S6 your desperation is showing. Image if the SR had s1 at $71B s2 at $64B and S6 now sitting at up to $56B wonder which one they would have went with
Oh I see, the SR December 2013 is not the final word on funding anymore, you need to transpose CP 16 figures onto SR 13 scenarios to try and dig yourself out of that hole.
So now it’s:
no better estimates exist than the assumptions applied in the Strategic Review dated December 2013.
Except when you don’t want it to be.
lol
Lol devoid not for the MTM as it has been (taken out of your play book) “revised” while they havnt revised the FTTP ones in the SR have they devoid
Incorrect, the FTTP funding figures and completion dates from the 2013 SR scenarios have been revised in CP 16.
Keep digging that hole.
Lol devoid then point to it in the CP16 where the revised continued rollout of FTTP
Or are you trying to came the restart figures as the revised ones. But thanks for pointing it out that switching to MTM has up the cost of going back to FTTP by another $20B
@Jason K
You need to learn the LPA playbook Jas.
It’s OK for him to cherry pick. It’s not OK for the other side to cherry pick.
A great example recently. Our “treasurer” was severely embarrassed when he got caught out with his cherry picking, which created a “Black hole within a black hole”.
And these people are in charge of the Australian economy :-(
But they told us they were “adults” tinman.
Actually, the CP16 states clearly on page 39 section titled “2.5 MTM compared to an all-FTTP rollout” in a little “additional disclaimer” section that:
Which is a concern, as section 2.5 also says:
But they didn’t change their claim that FttP:
So I guess they didn’t have “significant new information, experience and market knowledge”…
Or something…
Just another LPA lie sadly Hubert ;(
Adults no, a bunch of petulant silver spooner teenagers is prolly closer to the truth.
“Incorrect, the FTTP funding figures and completion dates from the 2013 SR scenarios have been revised in CP 16.”
You’ve already tacitly acknowledged otherwise:
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/05/23/ipa-publishes-anti-labor-nbn-attack-riddled-grievous-errors/#li-comment-739859
No I didn’t tacitly or otherwise, the latest funding figures and CPP infrastructure costing is in CP 16, which I use all the time.
Some FTTP fans prefer FTTP figures from SR 13 especially the radically redesigned FTTP figure, so what you do is pretend that heading doesn’t exist and it becomes the same scenario as FTTP scenario 1, which is never quoted because the FTTP figures are still too high, and you need to manipulate it to make it look somewhat palatable.
So SR 13 is used to quote FTTP funding as gospel but it must not be used to quote the MtM figure because it is too low,even lower than funding estimates in CP 16.
CP 16 is never used to quote FTTP figures either because they have increased since SR 13, so you just ignore it or say CP 16 is BS, except the MtM figures that have increased, they are not BS.
Lol devoid thanks for pointing that out too because the CPP in the CP16 is $700 cheaper than the CPP in the SR. So would that mean the figures in the SR should be $7B cheaper.
The CPP of what in CP 16 compared to the CPP of what in SR 13 Rizz?
You have deliberately phrased it vague and nonsensical again so no one knows what you are talking about.
Lol devoid nothing vague about it we know the HFC and FTTN CPP from the SR to CP16 increased. But guess what FTTP dropped
Everyone else knows what I am talking including you. But then you have claimed a decrease in cost is the cause of the MTM cost blowout
What FTTP CPP figure from what page of SR 13 are you referring to?
Page 62
@ HC,
“But they told us they were “adults” tinman”
They are adults HC… just braindead, fuckwit, 1950’s, backwards, redneck, flat earth, iron wires are good enough..
Should I continue… ?
…adults… as you were clearly alluding to ;)
Jason K,
Page 62
You left the FTTP CPP figure out, I wonder why?
So show how the FTTP CPP cost has decreased between SR 13 and CP 16?
You need to state both FTTP CPP figures to explain this.
Hint before you dig that hole even deeper:
You need to read up in the SR 13 what the term Brownfields LNDN FTTP Cost per Premises actually means.
Lol devoid you only asked for the page now you want me to do the math for you too
got caught out eh?
@ alain says to JK “ok, let’s play your game”…
Classic comedy from the king of contradiction and double standard games.
You know, I always though (having read you and the other usual suspect flat earther MTM supporters) that you guys were disingenuous and rather dishonest in your double standards.
You know suggesting HFC failed before but lauding it now. Arguing that being forced migrated onto FTTP was undemocratic/socialist but now not having a problem at all to being forced onto MTM… etc, etc, etc.
But I can see now that the mindset of the rad con is, the rules only apply to us, not you… and you guys genuinely, yet ridiculously actually believe you can do or say as you please even when clearly (as is the case regularly) completely the opposite to your past/previous claims… and get away with it.
Or worse, actually expect to be taken seriously and not ridiculed and then sob when your contradictory comments are posted to embarrass .
Pitiful really.
You’re welcome
No devoid you have been caught out since you havent commented on the figures I must be right so prove me wrong so far you have it haven’t but try please.
Where is your figures to say I am wrong what page umber I sit on.
“No I didn’t tacitly or otherwise, the latest funding figures and CPP infrastructure costing is in CP 16, which I use all the time.”
Oh so you’re not ignorant per se, you’re just too dense to understand CP16.
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/05/23/ipa-publishes-anti-labor-nbn-attack-riddled-grievous-errors/#li-comment-739859
The elephant in the room, of course, is the LPA just aren’t actually any good with arithmetic, which is why the numbers never add up, and why Reality just wants to stick to CP16 (even though CP16 still refers back to SR13)…
If you look at page 128, it’s the “pits and pipes”.
But it makes you wonder why they never added that cost on to the CPP of FttN…
It’s quite simple to understand, for current NBN funding and CPP figures you always go to the latest NBN Corporate plan which is CP 16 released last year.
If you want to find out the current state of a company like a BHP, Telstra etc re costs and funding etc you look at the latest annual report.
Not hard is it?
Too hard for you it seems, CP16 still refers to SR13….
I wonder if they’ll respond to my comment. Will be interesting if they do.
http://fyre.it/lPKQB1.4
Hmmm … can’t see my comment up there.
Maybe I shouldn’t have posted the direct link to Renai’s article and asked them on whether there’d be a follow up article addressing his points.
It was an honest question … but thinking back on it, they most likely have thought I was stirring the pot.
McCrann is typical of Murdoch’s yappers, constantly wrong and likely proud of it!
Just call him Paul Murray…
“However, the slow take-up of high-end NBN services has been linked to the company’s pricing structure”
Who in their right mind would purchase a 100/40 plan on FTTN when the copper is only capable of delivering a small percentage of this?? Speaking from experience!
Terry McCrann, another shill abusing his position for ideological reasons, the public deserves better.
Who in their right mind would purchase a 100/40 plan on FTTN when the copper is only capable of delivering a small percentage of this??
The overwhelming majority of fixed line NBN residences are on FTTP, FTTN was only released September last year.
So you admit the problem is only going to get much worse then?
+ 1
Disappear time again
More FTTP residences are going to move off 100/40?
Could well be if that FTTP trend continues.
Thank you for highlighting that concern.
Der…
You’re welcome.
Nice dodge and spin.
What ever. You’re the one that brought it up, silly billy.
Head in the sand about the falling trend of FTTP users on 100/40 eh? if you don’t like it ignore it.
lol
You’re the one trying very, very hard to ignore the fact that it will be even worse when we get the “up to” 100/40 FttN ;o)
ROFLMAO
Tinman it already isFTTP sitting at 15% on 100Mbps while we see only 7% on FTTN
@Jason K
That’s my point Jason, once FttN actually starts rolling out in earnest, at least half of the people on a loop from the node will physically be able to even have a chance of “up to” 100Mbps, they rest will have to take what they can get, and those unlucky enough to be on the end of 1Km+ will be unlikely to even get the 25Mbps “guaranteed” by Malcolm.
Well Reality, the actual reality is that since Turnbull commenced implementing his NBN demolition project many of us are now experiencing a total peak hour crawl on His “Superfast Broadband MTM”
My once excellent but more expensive 50/20Mb/s NBN service has now become an absolute joke evenings & weekends with constant sub 5Mb/s downloads & only delivers what I’m paying for after midnight.
Yet you come on here to gloat about subscribers abandoning high priced plans that only deliver a fraction of what they’re being ripped off in paying for.
(Perhaps you would like a CBA with that Sir?)
Indeed Grump, it makes Malcolm’s CBA toilet paper and just further shows how useless the LPA rabble are with anything to do with economics.
McCrann is, always has been, a Merdeock/LNP/IPA yapper. No credibility at all, on anything let alone NBN, technology.
“Delimiter recommends readers click here for the full article.”
*clicks* http://s01.yapfiles.ru/files/1359323/_3.gif *projectile vomit*
McCrann, like Hans Gruber falling through the window in Die Hard, will fall off the old-media dead tree of obsolete media. Then he will need internet to become part of the 21st century instead of the 19th. If he wants fast internet at that point he can go SOL.
These Liberals could at least get the facts right if they are going to criticise. Oh wait. They don’t have any facts. Just made up BS. As for Murdoch, his time is up. His existence is a drag on our progress.
Clearly the Labor’s NBN policy folly has been significantly reformed (for the better), whilst it continues as a massive waste. And HFC yet to come online.
“In addition, this ‘ramp-up’ was predicted by both the NBN company and Labor. It took a number of years for the setup of the NBN company to take place from 2009; the rollout was always scheduled to accelerate in later years.”
True, it was “forecast” to ramp-up, but actual performance is not kind. NBNCo’s actual fibre performance have even been graphed! The graph clearly shows in it’s 5th year Quigley’s scheduled ramp-up was MIA.
3 mths prior to the 2013 election brownfield serviceable premises went from (week ending 30-jun-2013) 107,791 to (29-sep-13) 153,977 or 46,186 (3,552 / week). Prior to FTTH launch Morrow’s performance was (9-Jul-15) 662,588 to (24-Sep-15) 769,026 or 106,438 (8,187 / week).
What lead to this increase? New management instigated many changes to the dysfunctional company they inherited; among them re-engaging unhappy contractors, changes to fibre rollout model (at the expensive of redundancy), adopting FTTB for MDUs (30% at service class zero), …
“The NBN Strategic Review (PDF), conducted under Turnbull as Communications Minister, found that a reworked FTTP version of the NBN could be delivered at a cost of $44 billion by 2023.”
Capex is only part of the cost. SR13p17 shows Quigley’s S1 peak funding had blown out to $~73b, revised FTTH S2 $~64b.
“The Strategic Review also showed that this version of the NBN would make a return on the Government’s investment of about 4 percent. This means that the NBN would actually make a profit for the Government — it would not, in effect, cost the taxpayer anything.”
Actually showed IRR (not ROI, different) S1 0-2.5%, S2 1.7 – 4.0%.
“McCrann is correct that most NBN customers have taken up lower speed tiers on the network…”
Choosing speeds comfortably delivered on much cheaper last mile technologies. Average customer chosen speed across the network continues to fall, underperforming forecasts:
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/05/26/nbn-reaches-1-million-customer-milestone/#li-comment-740095
“In short, many experts believe Australians would take up the higher NBN speeds in much greater numbers if the NBN company reworked its much-criticised wholesale pricing model.”
True if the higher speeds same price as lower speeds everyone will go higher speeds. However that was not NBNCo’s funding model. Goodbye IRR!
“The cost of remediating the copper and HFC cable networks for the NBN has been higher than expected, and revenues under Turnbull’s MTM model have been lower than the previous FTTP model, meaning that the rate of return on the Government’s investment has sunk lower than under Labor.”
True; but fibre costs even higher than expected, revenue even lower. ROI hasn’t sunk lower as the results of the switch, Labor’s figures were a fantasy (now exposed).
“In fact, the NBN may actually be in some financial trouble.”
Word!
We await ALP’s revises NBN policy;-)
So richard is FTTP higher in the CP16 to the SR. Can’t wait for your answer but then you have been having trouble with your numbers lately
Liberals. 80% behind targets. Nothing more needs to be said about their Sooner. Faster. Cheaper policy, when its blown out from being available to all in 2016 to 2021 or later.
The management of the project has gone BACKWARDS. Not improved.
Not in RichardWorld Newspeak Gav. forwards means backwards, foresight means folly, “significantly reformed” means they just went with the ALP roll out.
Just flip them around depending on if he is having a pro-LPA rant, or an Anti-ALP rant
And all of that led to the Liberals being 80% behind on forecasts.
Which somehow is a positive.
No GG, you see this is where our friend is working on a different intelligence level to us “squealers” (ahem)…
You see Richard isn’t denying per se` that MTM is woeful… but “because he claimed he could have written MTM”/ the woeful plan… he refuses blankly to say it or to admit outright that the blowouts in cost and time, prove his plan as a complete debacle.
So instead of actually admitting it is a complete fuck-up beyond compare, he instead uses his years of brilliant bean counting (i.e. a knack of being able to cherry-pick, ignore and massage figures) as well as ignoring basics, to try to do as all good rad cons do… blame the others, via unfounded comparisons.
And my proof.
Initially one of Richard’s prize docs was the CBA… he used figures to talk up MTM (let’s call it the Dickplan™ – yes one word, instead of MTM) to understand the first of one of his two driving motives.
1. Ego
2. Ideological hatred of anything left of extreme right
Anyhoo I digress…
Until one day I said to him, but Richard, the CBA you laud re: the Dickplan™ also clearly states that Quigley’s figures etc, were sound!
With this I was again informed that, I couldn’t comprehend, as Richard is working on this different level and that those figures contained within the CBA were sourced from NBNCo, so of course they would reflect Quigley’s figures being sound. As such the CBA figures couldn’t be taken seriously
So I said oh, ok, so the figures contained within the CBA which suggest the Dickplan™ is sound, you claim as gospel but the same people, same document who vindicate the FTTP info you disagree with, can’t be taken seriously.
This was months ago and since I do not recall him using the CBA as his smoking gun since.
I think we can all agree on that…
“The graph clearly shows in it’s 5th year Quigley’s scheduled ramp-up was MIA.”
In it’s 5th year hey? When the Coalition were in power and were actively working to rework FTTP contracts to other technologies?
Nah, must be that the ramp up never occurred and not at all due to interference.
Kinda reminds me of this article R0nin:
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/02/why-is-the-nbn-co-hating-on-fibre-to-the-premises-these-days/
Interesting read…also give a lot of insight to how they operate.
Do you think Labor won the 2013 election and it’s ‘business a usual’ with a FTTP rollout to 93%?
Well, 93% of the connected customers are on FTTP aren’t they?
Wow, thats pretty random. Do you? What colour is the sky in your world? Are you on medication?
I’d just like to point out that that is the second time Alains’ medications have been questioned, by differing people. Glad it’s not just me.
I think the only argumentative point could be the dosage ;)
The number of times he meant to write ‘FTTP’ and accidentally used FTTN is shocking, but not more so than the fact that after all this time it has never been corrected.
From one perspective I thought that was an article describing something that had been patently obvious from September 2013, but then given the level of knowledge of your average punter I suppose the more articles there are calling out the behaviour of the LNP and it’s propaganda arm called the NBN Co, the better.
It would just be nice if some sort of editorial standard had been followed, because unless you understood the subject well enough to read past the errors, that article was really £#@&ing confusing.
Ah, the usual mistakes errors omissions and other misinformation loaded to hide the inconvenient truth. lol
Sadly for some, cognitive dissonance, prevents them from seeing past the first pixel in the sixty four billion pixel big picture.
Dog to tail, let us escape from this polar illogical circle of FTTN is always better than FTTP despite the laws of physics. Time to go and chase that NBN bankrupt money tree over there, before it runs out of loot on the first Tuesday in November, 2016……………
“True, it was “forecast” to ramp-up, but actual performance is not kind.”
Tends to happen when contracts are cancelled instead of penning more.
“The graph clearly shows in it’s 5th year Quigley’s scheduled ramp-up was MIA.”
To claim otherwise would be quite the achievement, given Quigleys’ rollout was halted after 1.5 years.
“New management instigated many changes to the dysfunctional company they inherited; among them re-engaging unhappy contractors, changes to fibre rollout model”
Earl has proven a more trustworthy source than you:
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/02/01/political-untruths-poisoning-the-nbn-says-budde/#li-comment-714461
To quote the old saying:
“Is it true or did you read it in the Herald-Sun?”
it’s interesting the Murdoch aligned press are campaigning so hard on this, it’s like they see it as a weak point in the election for the “Turnbull Coalition Team”.
It’ll be interesting to see how the non-fibre numbers of the MtM hold up, the (now official) leaks make it obvious they are having a lot more problems with delays in getting FttN working “Sooner. Cheaper” than Malcolm originally thought, and they have already admitted to extra costs and delays even before those ones kick in.
Imagine voting Liberal knowing your mates all hate you and knowing you’re going to lose at the same time!
Last time nobbers knew they were going to win: this time they’re swinging as they know the Old Man Smell of Howard just aint cutting it anymore… hey: what’s Howard saying about the NBN?
..oh that’s right- nuffin, just like the honest coward all his ex lovers are finally sick of and he’s trying to sell Barnaby,… lol: this is the biggest political joke book in history being written as we speak!
** Go the clever country that built the Asian century: yay, we all live in McMansions and look down our noses at the homeless like the well bred toffee nosed middleclass tryhards we were meant to be!
(..People actually died for this…)
Of course it’s a weak point – it’s a $56bn hole in the budget adding several billion in OPEX annually. It is fraud on a massive scale, perpetrated at the highest level of government. It is a technical fraud, financial theft, and all designed to artificially reposition Telstra so it becomes utterly unassailable – it is rigging the legal and competitive environment to guarantee the success and dominance of a single company, so it’s like the ultimate form of insider trading… If you didn’t just have knowledge of something the company was doing, but could control the entire external environment. Considering the level of corruption and illegality involved, that could (in a fair and just society that actually, you know, gave a $#@& about the law) wind up landing every one of these pricks in jail, I’d say it is a pretty big chink in their armour.
Would we like a RC with that order Sir? (pretty please?)
YourUninvitedGuestIsBeingCensored,
Of course it’s a weak point – it’s a $56bn hole in the budget
It’s just your weak point, because it’s not $56B, start again.
Well according to our esteemed ex-treasurer it’s $70 Billion. That better?
@ alain.
You keep claiming it’s not $56B and deriding those who do and I keep asking…
Prove it isn’t $56B.
GO we are waiting
Err this is about the 5th time I’ve asked you to back your mouth with proof, at a proof driven blog and you haven’t been able to do so even once…
In fact you PRICELESSLY, whimper off tail between legs.
There’s a clear pattern of denial and lies happening from you (err over 5 years…)…
If you can’t walk the walk boy, don’t talk the talk.
DISGRACEFUL
You’re welcome.
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/05/24/hypocrisy-afr-launches-bizarre-attack-labor-nbn-raids/#li-comment-740057
It is worth repeating.
It is easy to quote the correct figures from CP 16, unless you want to deliberately mislead.
Indeed.
Devoid, your comments are, as always, invalid!
Err alain, in case you missed it AGAIN regardless of CP16 or whatever the Australian says..
Prove it isn’t $56B.
GO we are STILL waiting…FFS
You’re welcome
What evidence is there that it will stay under “up to” $56b?
The LPA haven’t been very encouraging so far…I hear there have been blow-outs already with more possibly to come?!!
Really, interesting that the future funding requirements in the budget earlier this month were the same as the funding requirements in CP 16.
So the NBN future funding requirements from August 2015 to May 2016 have remained virtually the same.
I look forward as you do to the funding requirements of Labor NBN policy 2016.
More fibre but cheaper, water into wine and lots of smoke and mirrors, the midnight dice rolling must be frenetic by now.
Cannot wait for that gem!
Just wait for the Mtm blowout – it will be along soon.
And unless the “Committee of Experts” can fix it, that funding will need to come from future budgets rather than private equity.
You have a serious memory problem Reality, it’s like every day is Groundhog Day with you ;o)
Fibre is bad, copper is good, Murdoch is good.
..and Australia is still the clever country!
G O G G O
Copper goggomobile.
[ for those old enough to have seen that ad on TV about 20 years ago.]
We were really happy to dump our slow crappy ADSL for Labor’s NBN when it first arrived in our area. Great speeds & at a lower cost than before (minus line rental.)
But now our “Superfast MTM” service has us back on ADSL speeds evenings & weekends but paying a lot more for less on our soon to be abandoned UP TO 50Mbps plan yet News Corpse publications are claiming “We don’t want those high speeds.”
No Rupert. the truth being we don’t want to continue paying $100/month for Malcolm’s innovative MTM “Service” with a pricing structure that presently results in most providers struggling to provide an Up To 5Mbps constantly buffering performance during peak times.
As things stand now we might as well have remained on ADSL saving many of us a lot of money & hassles.
Grump are you in fibre? Have you found that you are suffering contention on a fibre connection? That is seriously concerning… Who is your RSP?
No,not fibre but FW NBN since August 2014.
Was hoping to go with Skymesh but no dice here as yet.
After having tried a number of unsatisfactory fixed Wireless NBN providers such as Telstra, Iinet, Westnet & Exetel i’ve now been on on Newsprout 50/20 since early 2016 & was getting close to full speed at first but lately struggles to compete with the basic 12/1 tier at peak times so am about to go back to 25/5 unless they get back to me very soon with NBNCo’s response to my current complaint ticket.
Now 7PM Friday evening & a present speed test result on my “UP TO” 50/20 plan:
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/5357985579
Pathetic!
Hmm on fixed wireless your performance could either be an RSP provisioning issue or poorly provisioned wireless towers, so it could be an NBN issue or CVC pricing. Do you know how many neighbours you have competing for tower bandwidth? I’d be inclined to look in that direction – in my experience fixed wireless performance like you’re seeing is usually due to insufficient tower bandwidth resulting from poor design (or, you know, skimping on adequate hardware to avoid cost blowouts… That doesn’t sound like NBN Co now, does it?).
Yes, could be either so just continuing to monitor & waiting to see what they come back with from nbnco.
From what I read on Whirlpool this seems to be a widespread issue among many providers with very few offering acceptable 50/20 FW plans so will very likely drop back to a 25/5 plan shortly.
Bloody hell, that’s just plain wrong…
Received a reply from my provider today informing me they’re presently experiencing “Back haul issues they hope to resolve shortly”
A little better tonight, present download speed at 4Mb/s lol.
If Terry McCrann made any correct economic predictions, or presented the facts regarding any of his arguments it would be newsworthy. In regards to anything remotely technical he has absolutely no idea, and in regards to economics, which is his speciality, he’s not much better. He’s an axe grinder and little more.
IM(NS)HO.
No wonder Main Stream Media is loosing it’s customers.With crap like this article.
And it’s getting faster http://www.crikey.com.au/2015/11/13/magical-newspapers-take-a-hammering-in-circulation-figures/
Good, the faster the paper dinosaurs die the better!
I have a response to Terry MCcrann, Matthew and anyone else who trots out that crap about people who choose lower speeds.
I am in a FTTP area from leftover Labor contracts. Yesterday I went to the Telstra business centre to discuss a time for the box to be put on the inside of my house. I had already looked in the Telstra docs and NOT ONE MENTION ABOUT SPEEDS. Then the guy at the centre DID NOT WANT TO GIVE ME A SPEED EITHER. I pressed him – I said which speed am I on? He was like a fortune cookie. He said you get twice what you have now. No, I said, give me a choice of speeds. “I can’t guarantee a speed”. Blah blah.
In other words, ISPs in Australia do everything possible, fair or foul, to leave you with the lowest speed option because they know that they are overselling. This is the real world. This is how it works. I know because I saw it happen yesterday when I spoke to a Telstra official. Matthew, McCrann et al have no bloody idea what the hell they are talking about.
Le Carre is the way
Mathew knows that one he uses it as why there are less people on 12Mbps and more on 25Mbps
your mistake really was asking to stay with Telstra. Dont reward them for being assholes; take your business elsewhere, to an ISP that will offer you all tiers. not to mention ordering backhaul/cvc services in a sufficient ratio to services that they wont suffer congestion …
i dont think i would want to be on a telstra 25/5 connection if they are buying only the bare minimum cvc/backhaul they can get away with…. personally i stay the hell away from them, and asides from one trip out west where a telstra sim might have given me more service, i have not regretted it.
The ALP need to hurry up and release their election NBN policy urgently because we are already at the end of May with only a bit over 1 month to go to the election.
The Coalition are getting free runs on board (rightly or wrongly) in the Labor policy vacuum because commentators have nothing to talk about other than what the Coalition MtM model is doing and what the old Labor policy NBN didn’t do.
The coalition are finished: no more sonic boom means all the nobbers are jumping ship to try and pretend to their mates they didn’t actually vote for copper internet in the first place before the crack party ends!!
It won’t work of course and the blue bloods will be assigned their rightful status in the street as daddys little nobbers like always…
Because previous political policies we’ve heard –
25mbps to all premises by 2016
fully costed and ready to go plan
Meant a whole lot didn’t they?
It could mean a lot or nothing at all if we had something to compare it with.
Lol yes devoid instead of the lie of $29B 25Mbps to by 2016. They said up to $56B complete by 2020. So like I have said to you devoid it doesn’t matter what they come out with be it gets revised anyway .
ROFL. What free runs on the board? I’ve yet to see a cogent argument as to how the MTM mess is going to get any better, or last beyond a decade before it too needs a significant, and costly upgrade.
Anyway, to paraphrase that old maxim attributed to Napoleon, never interrupt an enemy whilst he’s making a mistake…
Wait, what!?? You are finally admitting there is an NBN emergency and Labor urgently need to step in to fix it??!!
This isn’t the first time alain has demanded Labor release a “solution” TM…
And as I pointed out to him, we all know you only need a solution if there is a problem (in this case of MTM, more a catastrophe).
But oddly (ahem) prior to the previous election he didn’t claim the then opposition needed a “solution” (so…) and even suggested they wouldn’t be able to formulate a clear BB policy until post election day, where if they were to win, they’d need to see the status quo (or similar wording, as couldn’t be bother looking for it AGAIN).
Of course the opposite applies now for some odd reason.
Simply more of the same… twists, spin, contradictions and at times out and out lies.
There is no NBN emergency, have to laugh at the Labor apologists smoke screening like crazy and avoiding the elephant in the room weeks out from the election.
There is no Labor NBN Policy.
“what to do what to do, anyone got any ideas or will ‘more fibre’ and chuck in FTTdp as some vague maybe could be future goal do it?”
“shh and don’t mention HFC, hopefully no one will notice”.
@ alain…
Oh your flip-flops and double standards galore… are precious, even for you alain…
So why do you call for the other’s solution…if there isn’t a problem..you do understand what a solution is for eh?
Dóh.
But again it was ok for the others (wink), ‘to wait until election day regarding BB’ when err the others (wink) were in opposition.
And yes lets mention HFC… The same HFC you said was FAILED HFC.
Didn’t you?
Let’s see if you now want to keep mentioning HFC because normally that’s you cue to disappear only to return sprouting the same idiocy, elsewhere.
You’re welcome
But again it was ok for the others (wink), ‘to wait until election day regarding BB’ when err the others (wink) were in opposition.
The Coalition election policy was released in April 2013 well before the September election.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of a deliberate misleading rant.
Yes but petulant child, alain…
I’ll copy paste YOUR WORDS again…
alain (Reality) 2012: “I am sure the Coalition policy is in flux because they don’t really know until election day 2013 how much NBN Co FTTH will be laid and how many residences will be using it.”
So you excuse one until election day and not the other???
And shh don’t mention that F A I L E D HFC… oh cool you didn’t, GOLD.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of your typoical, perpetual, deliberate, electioneering, misleading, lying and disgraceful rant…
You’re welcome
The Coalition election policy was released in April 2013 well before the September election.
Another eye watering moment of fact eh Fizz, so it’s time for some gap filler OT ranting.
We wait with breathless anticipation the ALP NBN policy five weeks out from the election, they obviously had been working hard on it for the last three years!
‘More fibre’ – this will be good to see in detail, perhaps that is the detail.
lol
I think everyone, even you, are aware a lot of mistakes were made last election (chief one being the person elected, but many others).
Make your mind up. If there is no emergency, Labor don’t “urgently” have to do anything, do they? You’re the one that says they need to do it “urgently”…
And he winner is Terry McCrann for creating more reasons for people not to buy newspapers.
Actually, while Terry’s article has some factorial…..issues… the overall theme that Turnbull’s stewardship of the NBN project is his “greatest and unqualified achievement in Government” is absolutely correct in comparison to all his other achievements in this government.
Yes, these last 2.5 years have really been that bad.
Another election, another round of bad reporting.
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2016/s4468293.htm
is another total joke. As much as I detest Malcolm’s mess, I don’t see how he’s to blame for what they are claiming in the ABC article. Just how are they quoting problems from people that have had FTTN for years…. when it’s only recently become available.
It would seem, if you want internet.. move to new zealand. The only option for sending large files here is Australia post, that no longer has small parcel options and now takes twice as long. Lucky country… where?
They started trials in April 2014
It’s only commercially started in sept
Killarney Vale is FTTH, as was Gosford two years ago (hint: one of the first in Australia to connect). Nice try though;-)
Welcome RSP contention! Where has this been highlighted before? ;-)
ABC performing at GBE standard. Good call SBD.
Lol Richard what a fail
Umina Beach is in Gosford started in the first trial.
Killarney Vale In in Lake Macquarie which was in the 200,000 trial started late 2014
They definitely had the trials there, but it’d be hard to say which tech they are on without nbn™ actually saying or RN checking the houses.
http://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-co-names-first-140-fttn-sites-396924
Regardless, the slow speeds are on the LPA watch, they are the ones that own it.
Umina Beach is not in Gosford. Gosford SA [ 2GOS ] is FTTP.
“GARY JACKSON: For two years we had a great service up until December 2015, it was great, it worked, no problems.”
December 2013.
“JUNE JOHNSON [Killarney Vale]: I got this on about August the year before last, ”
Killarney Vale [ 2LJT-04 ] is FTTP.
LNP owns contention issues;-) Classic
My apologies Richard
They modified the original tech model extensively, but they left the CVC issue totally alone, of course they own it.
Look Richard is attacking MTM again, as he claims he regularly does…?
Oh wait
You’re welcome
Conservatives are so contradictory cause they aren’t too bright.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study–conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html
@Derek O
Makes sense I guess, you wouldn’t want things to change much, when it’s hard enough trying to get to grips with how things work currently…
pretty much TM, anything new scares their tiny little minds.
Ah, I usually find with Terry’s business column, is very shallow and has a tendency to lack certain critical information. One can usually find far more about the performance of any given company by downloading, their annual stockholder reports.
Fun fact one of Terry’s illustrious predecessors writing part time for the Herald Sun business page was no other than Christopher Skase. He began his career as a stockbroker, but soon became a finance journalist instead, working at The Sun News-Pictorial. lol
But then again, it is not the first time Terry’s inconsistent tirades and erratic broadsides have completely missed the barn wall at ten paces.
I know its off topic but are you aware of this Renai ?????
Today it was confirmed that Australian government officials pressured a prestigious international body to silence the truth about the risks of climate change for the Great Barrier Reef.
I hope the link works ?
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?hl=en#inbox/154ef30bea63892b
No those links don’t work, they just link to the users own google email account inbox if they have one, if not it just goes to the login to Google box.
Maybe a dropbox or something? or screenshot and free image upload?
Heres a link to the ABC article:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-27/australia-removed-from-un-climate-change-report/7450898
And to The Guardian article. http://goo.gl/VJGZrT
Bugger the link doesn’t work, I’ll post the article here for you interest.
Today it was confirmed that Australian government officials pressured a prestigious international body to silence the truth about the risks of climate change for the Great Barrier Reef.
I was one of the scientists they tried to silence.
Overnight the report was released — but mysteriously, the Great Barrier Reef had been cut completely. I was astonished, given we’ve just witnessed the worst coral bleaching event in the Reef’s history.
Australian officials have now confirmed to The Guardian that they asked the report authors to remove any reference to the Great Barrier Reef, or any Australian world heritage site. No sections about any other country were removed.
As a scientist, I’m angry. As an Australian, I’m disgusted. As a Climate Councillor, I’m now asking for your help.
Today you will hear me on the TV and radio-waves as we ask the government to answer these allegations.
Information is the currency of democracy. When governments attempt to suppress or pressure scientific information, we must speak up. To me, this is about more than one report, and more than the Reef.
Sadly, we can’t just rely on governments to provide independent scientific information. We experienced that first hand when the Climate Commission was abolished by the Abbott Government.
Because of people like you chipping in, we were able to keep going as the Climate Council. Because of you we are able to speak out on days like today.
A strong, independent voice for science is more important than ever. If you believe the public deserve to hear the facts; if you believe the government has no right to silence scientists, then please help fund the Climate Council’s ongoing work.
The Climate Council receives no government funding. We exist because Tony Abbott abolished the Climate Commission, and thousands of Australians who thought that was a bad call kicked in their own funds to enable us to continue.
Since then, we’ve seen increasing attacks on science – gutting funding for CSIRO climate research, renewable energy investment and more.
If you’re as disturbed by all this as I am, let’s all chip in to keep standing up for science.
Thank you,
Professor Will Steffen
Climate Councillor
Emeritus Professor, ANU
What a Bloody disgrace, these fascists need to be jailed for treason, they’ve sold our country out to their mates!! classic fascist behavior!!
http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm
Indeed, but it won’t change while the LPA is running things, it’s just how they do business.
See:
Immigration Detention.
NBN raids.
Operational Matters
Commercial-in-Confidence
“On Water Matters”
etc, etc, etc….
So most conx are at 12 0r 25 I wonder why that is.
Maybe it’s because a lot of people are on fixed wireless not fttp
According to Mathew, it’s because Labor made them connect at that I think?
In our area during peak periods & weekends the new Fixed Wireless MTM 50/20 service has rapidly deteriorated under their watch, frequently dropping down to sub 5Mbps regardless of chosen provider. We’re about to go back to a 25/5 or even 12/1 plan rather than waste money on an Up TO tier that’ only exists between 1 and 5 AM.
Their constantly buffering “Superfast Broadband” has become a sick joke here.
Excellent discussion exposing Christopher Pyne’s lies about the NBN on Q&A on Monday on ABC 702 the other day.
https://radio.abc.net.au/programitem/pew3OPEZpQ
Starts at around 38 minutes in.
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