Censorship on Delimiter

[deteego]

Apparently Renai has started basically moderating the hell out of Delimiter for everyone apart from a few certain people (almost all of which are basically complete pro NBN). Im not going to go into debate here, but basically its obvious which people are not posting anymore

But what strikes me as quite hypocritical, and incredibly biased, is that he is censoring people regarding "irrational debate" i.e. Correction: Cutting the NBN won’t save money | Delimiter

This is not a matter of irrational debate, there was nothing irrational that ASP has said (or anything the other posters have been saying), or at least its not any less rational than Renai's article. If thats the reason (or excuse) that you want to use, than fine, but at least don't do double standards, and actually apply it to everyone, and not the people that just happen to agree to the article

There is nothing irrational about the article, especially when you admit (but indirectly) that your own premise of the article is wrong i.e.

Of course, it is very possible to argue that this is all accounting semantics. Real money is actually being spent by NBN Co right now — billions of dollars — and that money is the Federal Government’s money, courtesy of equity injections into the company. However, that money is not diverting government funds away from other projects. It is funding which is being invested with the expectation of a return which will actually fuel other projects. The money the government is spending on the NBN is not an expense to be written off; it is a different type of money. It is capital — and Governments, courtesy of their incredible credit rating and asset base, have almost unlimited amounts of capital to draw on for investments which will make a return.

That is of course besides the point, yes money is not being diverted away from government projects, but Abbott explicitely stated that he is going to use that cash funding to put extra money into roads. There is nothing that is factually incorrect about that statement. He is simply taking the money that is being used, as cash injections into the NBN, and putting it into other projects.

That is one example, and there are many more.

This is all really besides the point though, if you are going to censor people like that, then "fine", but at least either completely remove comments, or censor everyone that has participated in the debate, not just the people you agree with. Else you are going to turn Delimiter into a site where everyone, figuratively speaking, participates in circle wanking, and that would reflect on Delimiter much worse as it will tarnish delimiter's site as being an actual site news, and turn it into a sensationalist extreme tech orientated tabloid

In any case, almost all of the articles that have been released, as of late, are sensationalist dribble (the one about ISP's colluding and doing blackmail is the last straw), so I am not going to bother visiting this site anymore, and will get my news articles from more reputable sites such as ZDNet

[Renai]

hey Deteego,

I've banned you and a few others (RS, Alain, Wing Commander), because your ability to contribute to a meaningful and rational discussion on Delimiter had run low over time and the discussion was going in circles. Yes, I'm changing the commenting policy on Delimiter, and I'm changing it so that we have a more productive discussion -- instead of one which quickly segues into "us versus them".

If you want the truth, I've received ongoing complaints about the people I've banned from many other readers. And I agree with them -- you weren't contributing.

I'll remove the ban after a week or so and see how it goes.

Cheers,

Renai

[deteego]

hey Deteego,

I've banned you and a few others (RS, Alain, Wing Commander), because your ability to contribute to a meaningful and rational discussion on Delimiter had run low over time and the discussion was going in circles. Yes, I'm changing the commenting policy on Delimiter, and I'm changing it so that we have a more productive discussion -- instead of one which quickly segues into "us versus them".

If you want the truth, I've received ongoing complaints about the people I've banned from many other readers. And I agree with them -- you weren't contributing.

I'll remove the ban after a week or so and see how it goes.

Cheers,

Renai

I realize I have been "banned", and its obvious which ones where the others, however you completely missed my point. There are plenty of other people (who I will not name for obvious reasons) that have been doing just the same which you have completely ignored, all of whom are as "rational" and as "meaningful" as RS or the rest of us

Im not complaining about your reasons, I am complaining about your selection criteria, because in the last week I have seen plenty of people posting which are as irrational as the rest of us

If you are going to be fair, then apply the same treatment to everyone that was involved, because I can instantly name a few on the top of the head who are still allowed to post who shouldn't be, according to your new rules

[socrates]

Democracy is wonderful, but sometimes it has to be guided a bit to prevent the never-silent ones from taking over the world (or more specifically the thread) through sheer force of induced boredom from everybody else.

It seems quite a fair call in these tech forums to weed out those whose verbose political or corporate allegiances appear to greatly exceed their practical knowledge, or in some cases their common sense.

[deteego]

Democracy is wonderful, but sometimes it has to be guided a bit to prevent the never-silent ones from taking over the world (or more specifically the thread) through sheer force of induced boredom from everybody else.

It seems quite a fair call in these tech forums to weed out those whose verbose political or corporate allegiances appear to greatly exceed their practical knowledge, or in some cases their common sense.

To be honest, the best solution to the problem would have been to enforce a one or two comment per person policy, per article

The biggest issue wasn't certain people posting, because everyone that involved themselves made the debate worse (and there are still a group of these people which are still allowed to post on Delimiter) and is guilty of being "banned". The issue is that the website has turned into a debate/forum, and obviously you are going to get circular debating happening

If you limit what a person can post, they put more thought into what they will write, and it will stop the 300 comment length articles, which imho was the real problem (the debates should be directed to a forum, which is where debating should be happening)

[socrates]

If you limit what a person can post, they put more thought into what they will write, and it will stop the 300 comment length articles, which imho was the real problem (the debates should be directed to a forum, which is where debating should be happening)

Which sounds reasonable.

So it seems we should now be able to look forward to you setting a good example here by sticking to the point, using accurate tech info and not running off into multiple posts from political lalaland?

And perhaps even reading other people's posts before you reply to them . . .

[HubertCumberdale]

If you limit what a person can post, they put more thought into what they will write

So you admit that you put very little thought into what you write. No need to be bashful we've known all along but it's good that you've taken a step forward and admitted this flaw, it is a very adult thing to do +1 however what I find most concerning about this comment is that you seem to be implying posters should be censored and/or limited in someway -1. For the record I agree with Renai that you lack the ability to contribute to a meaningful and rational way to discussions but I don’t agree with banning you. We need the whole world to see exactly what sort of people are opposed to the NBN. We shouldn’t be hiding or censoring this at all.

(the debates should be directed to a forum, which is where debating should be happening)

There is a forum right here that Renai created for just such a purpose but clearly the pride of some would not allow them to sign up and take advantage of it instead creating a textual quagmire in the article sections.

[deteego]

. For the record I agree with Renai that you lack the ability to contribute to a meaningful and rational way to discussions but I don’t agree with banning you. We need the whole world to see exactly what sort of people are opposed to the NBN. We shouldn’t be hiding or censoring this at all.

You are just as guilty of this as I am, don't be hypocrite

The only difference is that you vehemently support NBN

[HubertCumberdale]

You are just as guilty of this as I am, don't be hypocrite

What am I guilty of? Lacking the ability to contribute in a meaningful and rational way to discussions? Sorry but you must be projecting again, you've admitted that you can’t and anyone reading the majority of your posts will recognise that. Your claim that I am guilty of the same behaviour is really not grounded in reality.

The only difference is that you support NBN

(FTFY) I'm quite certain there are more differences. I for one am capable of debating in a frank and smart manner using facts to back up my claims. Based on your posting history on various tech sites regarding the NBN you don’t seem to be capable of doing the same.


So deeetgo here's your big chance to give us a demonstration of your great rational discussion abilities and prove to us that you are not lacking the ability to contribute in a meaningful way. Will you be able to or do you plan on sullying this forum just as you did the article comment sections?

[deteego]

So deeetgo here's your big chance to give us a demonstration of your great rational discussion abilities and prove to us that you are not lacking the ability to contribute in a meaningful way. Will you be able to or do you plan on sullying this forum just as you did the article comment sections?

Backing up your claims, you can't be serious?

I haven't seen you give one external reference or link which substantiates anything you say

The only thing you are able to do is to argue in circular logical loopholes, and making up your own assumptions and calling them 'facts'

Again, please stop claiming an angel, you are not.

[HubertCumberdale]

Backing up your claims, you can't be serious?

If I am asked for proof to back up my claims I do so, you on the other hand:

Telstra and the crime of South Brisbane

Fail every time.

I haven't seen you give one external reference or link which substantiates anything you say

Then you haven't been paying attention. You seem to live in your own little dream world oblivious to everything else...

The only thing you are able to do is to argue in circular logical loopholes, and making up your own assumptions and calling them 'facts'

And now you are describing your own posts, remember this is why you were banned.

Again, please stop claiming an angel, you are not.

I said are incapable of rational discussion. You certainly are proving it here right now.

[deteego]

If I am asked for proof to back up my claims I do so, you on the other hand:

Telstra and the crime of South Brisbane

Fail every time.

Im talking about what you post on the articles, not in the forums. I don't care what you post here, and its not relevant

Then you haven't been paying attention. You seem to live in your own little dream world oblivious to everything else...

Not a bad attempt for a pity defence

And now you are describing your own posts, remember this is why you were banned.

I am also describing yours, or should I provide a list of 100+ posts by yourself and compare and contrast? There is a reason why I made this thread post, Renai is doing double standards, and accepting people that agree him while banning the rest

I said are incapable of rational discussion. You certainly are proving it here right now.

Its easy to call anything irrational when you disagree with anything that conflicts with your opinion

That my friend, is called being paranoid

[HubertCumberdale]

Im talking about what you post on the articles, not in the forums. I don't care what you post here, and its not relevant

Provide proof of your claim then. Point out which articles where I have not provided proof when asked for it.

I am also describing yours

So you admit you argue in circular logical loopholes, make up your own assumptions and call them 'facts'? Interesting. I don’t do that btw, but I have noticed this is exactly what you do. Thanks for the confirmation.

or should I provide a list of 100+ posts by yourself and compare and contrast?

Yes. Do it. Include the context as well please.

Renai is doing double standards, and accepting people that agree him while banning the rest

So you believe others should be banned because you were banned? If you were smart you'd be telling Renai "I don’t believe the reason I was banned is a fair reason, please unban me" nope instead you are asking for others to be banned and censored. Very interesting.

Its easy to call anything irrational when you disagree with anything that conflicts with your opinion

I don’t call just anything irrational, I'm calling YOU irrational...

That my friend, is called being paranoid

This statement is proof of that. Explain how recognising someone’s irrational behaviour translates into paranoia?

[deteego]

Provide proof of your claim then. Point out which articles where I have not provided proof when asked for it.

The onus is on you to prove otherwise

I am not about to post a link to every single post you have made to prove my point

So you admit you argue in circular logical loopholes, make up your own assumptions and call them 'facts'? Interesting. I don’t do that btw, but I have noticed this is exactly what you do. Thanks for the confirmation.

I am saying almost everyone commenting on delimiter (including you) was guilty of it

Yes. Do it. Include the context as well please.

I thought you don't believe in context

So you believe others should be banned because you were banned? If you were smart you'd be telling Renai "I don’t believe the reason I was banned is a fair reason, please unban me" nope instead you are asking for others to be banned and censored. Very interesting.

Its called being fair

I don’t call just anything irrational, I'm calling YOU irrational...

And you have no basis to call me irrational apart from saying that I am irrational. You are going to actually have to prove that I am irrational, apart from just saying so

This statement is proof of that. Explain how recognising someone’s irrational behaviour translates into paranoia?

When the posts are not irrational, and you claim them to be irrational for reasons apart from being irrational (such as disagreeing with your opinion) then yes

Its either that, or a number of other things, I wouldn't know, im not your psychologist

[HubertCumberdale]

The onus is on you to prove otherwise

The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim. You claim that I don’t back up my claims in "what you post on the articles, not in the forums." So provide some links please...

I am not about to post a link to every single post you have made to prove my point

So provide one.

I am saying almost everyone commenting on delimiter (including you) was guilty of it

I'm saying only a select few are guilty of it and that select group includes you. Should you be banned is another question. IMO no....

Its called being fair

Not banning you is also fair. Now which do you prefer?

And you have no basis to call me irrational apart from the words that you use in your posts.

But I do. I have read enough of your posts on Delimiter to recognise the irrational demeanor and tone contained in them. alain is another one.

When the posts are not irrational, and you claim them to be irrational for reasons apart from being irrational (such as disagreeing with your opinion) then yes

If you say your posts are not irrational and I say they are irrational then it has nothing to do with paranoia at all and the reasons I am calling them irrational has nothing to do with any opinions contained in them either.

[deteego]

The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim. You claim that I don’t back up my claims in "what you post on the articles, not in the forums." So provide some links please...

OK sure, all of your comments on Delimiter

So provide one.

All of your comments on delimiter articles

I'm saying only a select few are guilty of it and that select group includes you. Should you be banned is another question. IMO no....

According to Renai it wasn't a select few

Not banning you is also fair. Now which do you prefer?

If he wants the site to be clean, then everyone involved should be "banned" (either that or he implements a single comment per user per article policy or something along those lines)

But I do. I have read enough of your posts on Delimiter to recognise the irrational demeanor and tone contained in them. alain is another one.

Im saying you have no basis for saying anyones post is irrational apart from calling them irrational

i.e. calling someone something is very different to them actually being that way

If you say your posts are not irrational and I say they are irrational then it has nothing to do with paranoia at all and the reasons I am calling them irrational has nothing to do with any opinions contained in them either.

Do you know the definition of paranoia?

Im saying you are paranoid because you are saying someones posts are irrational out of delusion, not because they actually are irrational.

When you are paranoid, everyones opinion (apart from your own) is irrational (or crazy) or whatever word you want to put on it

The only people that you call irrational are the ones that disagree with your opinion. You do the math

The only person I would constitute as irrational would be RS, that guy had a few screws loose

[HubertCumberdale]

OK sure, all of your comments on Delimiter

Link to one please.

All of your comments on delimiter articles

Link to one please.


Remember when I said:

If I am asked for proof to back up my claims I do so, you on the other hand:
Telstra and the crime of South Brisbane
Fail every time.

???

According to Renai it wasn't a select few

We are not talking about Renai. You said "I am saying almost everyone commenting on delimiter" and I said "I'm saying only a select few are guilty of it"

If he wants the site to be clean, then everyone involved should be "banned" (either that or he implements a single comment per user per article policy or something along those lines)

So you admit you are irrational and you believe everyone else is irrational and you want everyone banned?

Do you know the definition of paranoia?

Yes. I do. Do you know the definition of irrational? Calling someone paranoid for recognising their irrational behaviour is irrational.

Im saying you are paranoid because you are saying someones posts are irrational out of delusion

So you are wrong. I am not calling you irrational out of delusion. I am calling you irrational because of your irrational behaviour. Right here right now.

When you are paranoid, everyones opinion (apart from your own) is irrational (or crazy) or whatever word you want to put on it

STFU

The only people that you call irrational are the ones that disagree with your opinion. You do the math

Nope. There are many I disagree with who are not irrational. Only two: you and alian are irrational.

The only person I would constitute as irrational would be RS, that guy had a few screws loose

You have no basis for saying anyone’s post is irrational apart from calling them irrational.

[deteego]

Link to one please.

Blackmailing NBN Co works best through the media | Delimiter

Link to one please.

Blackmailing NBN Co works best through the media | Delimiter
Remember when I said:

???

Thats on the forums, not on the articles

This is not about what is talked in the forums, of which almost no one reads, and irrelevant to the topic

We are not talking about Renai. You said "I am saying almost everyone commenting on delimiter" and I said "I'm saying only a select few are guilty of it"

Yes we are, he is the one doing these decisions, so he is involved

So you admit you are irrational and you believe everyone else is irrational and you want everyone banned?

Don't twist my words, I believe everyone should be banned to keep the articles clean, not that everyone is irrational

Yes. I do. Do you know the definition of irrational? Calling someone paranoid for recognising their irrational behaviour is irrational.

I never said your behaviour was irrational, I said it was delusional. Calling someone irrational does not make you irrational in itself, it would make a logical paradox

So you are wrong. I am not calling you irrational out of delusion. I am calling you irrational because of your irrational behaviour. Right here right now.

If you are delusional you cannot correctly claim that someone is rational or irrational just be saying so

You actually have to prove that I am irrational, and that means actually going through my posts and deconstructing them and stating why they are irrational.

Until you do that, you are delusional at best, ignorant at worst

Hence you can claim that I am irrational till the cows come home and the pigs start flying, but it doesn't actually have any meaning, or relevance, or basis

STFU

Aww diddums, did I tickle you the wrong way. You want a pacifier

And I am ment to be irrational one, rofl

Nope. There are many I disagree with who are not irrational. Only two: you and alian are irrational.

Hence you are proving my point, only people that disagree with your opinion are ever considered to be irrational

It means that you are not capable of claiming that someone is rational or not

You have no basis for saying anyone’s post is irrational apart from calling them irrational.

Neither do you

However unlike you, I can actually state why RS was irrational, such as claiming that everyone that was against the NBN was a liberal political puppet, or bringing up completely irrelevant topics (such as stuff about senate numbers) into threads

[HubertCumberdale]

Blackmailing NBN Co works best through the media | Delimiter

Post real proof of your claim please.

Blackmailing NBN Co works best through the media | Delimiter

Post real proof of your claim please.

Thats on the forums, not on the articles

I see. So if someone asked you to post proof to back up your claims in the forum it doesn’t count?

[HubertCumberdale]

I believe everyone should be banned to keep the articles clean

That doesn’t sound very rational…

I never said your behaviour was irrational, I said it was delusional.

Actually you said I was paranoid for calling you irrational…

Calling someone irrational does not make you irrational in itself, it would make a logical paradox

That’s is correct. So I am calling you irrational, it does not make me irrational but it makes me paranoid?

[HubertCumberdale]

If you are delusional you cannot correctly claim that someone is rational or irrational just be saying so

Prove that I’m delusional. See I can that too.

You actually have to prove that I am irrational, and that means actually going through my posts and deconstructing them and stating why they are irrational.

Wow you are making this far too easy. You said “I believe everyone should be banned to keep the articles clean”. That is irrational.

Hence you can claim that I am irrational till the cows come home and the pigs start flying, but it doesn't actually have any meaning, or relevance, or basis

I just did. Thanks for stopping by!

[HubertCumberdale]

Aww diddums, did I tickle you the wrong way. You want a pacifier

And I am ment to be irrational one, rofl

You are proving it here right now.

Hence you are proving my point, only people that disagree with your opinion are ever considered to be irrational

Let me rephrase this in words even you can understand. You and alian are the only two on Delimiter that are irrational. It has nothing to do with who I agree and disagree with.

It means that you are not capable of claiming that someone is rational or not

Watch this: You are irrational.

[HubertCumberdale]

It I can actually state why RS was irrational

I can state why you are irrational and yep I just did a few quotes up.

[looktall]

wtfamireading.jpg

[deteego]

wtfamireading.jpg

What every discussion with Hubert boils down to

Im done with this thread, no point in keeping it going. I don't think he realises, but it takes two to tango, and his endless gibberish in this thread kinda proved my earlier point that he is just as guilty as circular and endless arguments as anyone else is