news The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has announced it is opening up the wholesale superfast broadband services to competition with the declaration of a five-year “superfast broadband access service” (SBAS).
The ACCC can declare a service if it feels that doing so would promote the “long-term interests” of users. The regulator’s declaration ensures all service providers have access to the infrastructure required to supply competitive communications services, the commission said.
The SBAS will provide retailers with access to network services outside the NBN with a downstream data rate “normally more than 25 Mbps”. This includes the fibre-to-the-basement (FTTB) network run by AAPT – a TPG subsidiary – and Telstra’s fibre networks in South Brisbane and Velocity estates, according to an ACCC statement.
“This is an acknowledgment that all superfast broadband networks, regardless of their size display natural monopoly characteristics,” said ACCC Chairman Rod Sims. “What this access declaration does is provide retailers with the opportunity to enter superfast broadband markets, and in turn increase competition.”
“This decision will also help to simplify and clarify the existing regulations that apply to superfast broadband services, allowing all retail providers to compete on their relative merits, regardless of the technology used, when the network was constructed, or who operates it,” Sims said.
The new service will benefit consumers in the long term because “greater competition between retail providers, and more choice, can now occur”, he added.
According to the ACCC, the announcement of the SBAS declaration has prompted a public inquiry into the “price and non-price terms of access” that should apply to the SBAS.
The ACCC has set interim terms and conditions to apply for the next 12 months while it completes the inquiry. These have been “benchmarked to existing regulated prices for similar superfast broadband services”, including the NBN and other networks, it said.
In setting interim T&Cs, the ACCC taken into account concerns about the regulatory burden for smaller providers and has exempted any superfast broadband operators supplying less than 20,000 customers.
During the inquiry, the ACCC said, it will “look closely” at the likely compliance costs for these operators, and will consider the price benefits that competition can bring to consumers.
The ACCC added that the TransACT/iiNet VDSL network and the HFC network in regional Victoria – all owned by TPG – will also be exempt for now in order to allow sufficient time for these networks to be “reconfigured to supply an SBAS product”.
Curious what the ACCC’s definition on what “superfast broadband” is? I consider it something faster than 100mbps, but I suspect they’ve got a much lower threshold in mind…
Paragraph 3
Yet you have to love the ACCC calling FTTP 100Mbps vs FTTN 25-100Mbps for teir 100Mbps
25mbps is not superfast. 100mbps is fast. Superfast would be something above 200mbps.
What I’d really like is for Australia to use international definitions for speed rather than making them up. I have a vague recollection of Telstra redefining broadband from “speeds faster than 1mbps” to “speeds 5 times faster than dial-up” back around the time of ADSL1 being launched so they could include their 256kbps ADSL service as “broadband”, given that most people simply didn’t know better.
In the past, the definition for a new tier of technology has typically been “anything faster than the last tier”. So ADSL2 capped out at 24 Mbps, meaning anything faster than that cant be that tier, and hence ‘superfast’.
As a user we might disagree, but thats been the basic practice since at least the 90’s when they transitioned from dialup to ADSL. Anything over 56k was broadband, and later, anything over 4 Mbps was fast broadband.
And every time it happens, people say the same thing – “thats not broadband/fast broadband/superfast broadband”, but dont realise that the definition is just referring to the minimum speed, not the maximum or even typical speed.
What messes with things this time is that the FCC in the US decided to do things their own way this time, and change their definition of broadband. It used to be anything over 4 Mbps (the peak of ADSL), but they bumped it to 25 Mbps last year to represent the new era of FttX and faster HFC options.
Thats just the US though, the standard practice has been to set the bar at the lowest level that cant be the previous tier. Thats all.
Isn’t the ADSL peak 8?
Which would make 4 the “Average” of ADSL…
You’re right, not sure why I thought 4 Mbps… Point was more that each tier definition was basically set to the lowest speed possible to be something new, not the fastest. There might be exceptions to that, but thats the general intent.
People look at superfast, and expect the 100/40 speed should be the default standard because thats the default speed being thrown about, but thats not the point. FttN/B is STILL part of that next tier beyond fast broadband, because its a different tech capable of faster speeds than the previous one.
HFC is a weird one and I’m not really sure myself how it fits into things. When HFC was rolled out, it generally didnt deliver more than ADSL did, but with no change in that rollout the speeds have improved since then. Much how ADSL made better and better use of copper as they refined things, HFC has done the same.
I’m not sure how HFC works in all that to be honest, its been able to be upgraded without drastic cost up until now, and bumped its speed from 8 Mbps to 40 Mbps (or faster) now without the costs DOCSIS 3.1 is going to need.
But as it was never an option where I live (and was never going to be an option, like 70% of the country), and is a fundamentally different type of tech, it doesnt really fit that same practice.
when i looked at the figure of 14756 dollars .Than I have no other choice but to accept , what i saw .They have been doing this for a year and get rid of theidr debts.. Yesterday they purchased new Aston Martin …
======= For More Detail Visit Here
The comedy comes full circle.
Conroy exempted NBNCo from competition policy because it couldn’t compete (needed the money for his cross-subsidy). Cost blowouts and few deployments his GBE’s performance record; turns out (as predicted) Conroy/Quigley couldn’t run a telco, only talk about it in press appearances. Of course management bonuses paid every year!
Competitive market destroyed for a new govt monopoly (against ACCC advice), now recognising the comparative delivery/price advantage of the private sector they want to start again. Govt funded $~50b elephant remains in the room overbuilding whatever they like, carrying $~2b a year losses (yet remains off-budget).
Funniest policy folly ever! SA submarine make work project likely to top it;-) enjoy taxpayers (not many here).
Richard, are you aware of the concept of Cross subsidies? You mentioned it yes, but a just like a parrot I don’t know if you actually understand what it is you’re saying.
That’s the idea that some services a business provides are disproportionately expensive to their apparent value to customers.
This is what happens with regional Broadband. It is disproportionately expensive to provide Broadband to regional towns.
Regional towns that nbnco is legally obligated to provide services too. Private sector providers are not obligated to do this.
So yes, they can’t compete, but it’s not because of incompetence, it’s because the competitors they will have will have a significant competitive advantage by being able to “cherry pick” profitable areas.
You’re right that it doesn’t make sense for this policy to remain off budget, but you seem to be falsely associating this with incompetence of the previous technology minister when it honestly doesn’t matter.
Both parties are at fault with continuing the myth that this project can pay for itself, but the Coalition is doubly incompetent for choosing the technology most likely to make the project unsustainable under the myth of doing the opposite.
Understand far more than you’ll ever. Fallacy of their revenue model pointed out several years ago, what were you saying at the time?
The alternative of a direct subsidy (bi-partisan competition policy since 80s before Rudd, model pre-Conroy and used successfully in many other countries) not entertained by Conroy. Quigley’s 7% IRR discredited at the time; fanboys squealed abuse. History only kind to one of us.
CPP for the GBE unequalled anywhere, $13b handed over to (unbelievably) retire infrastructure. Taxpayers funds propping up what in the private sector would have been pushed into administration years ago, ASIC all over senior management’s misrepresentations.
The previous minister is raised because NBNCo is the manifestation of his delusional policy. That the emporer was naked from day one, obvious to us few “parrots”.
Your comment is invalid
*edit* Hey HC, that IS fun, isnt it?
Watching them squirm certainly is ;-)
@Richie
Fragmented sentences…fragmented logic…fragmented arguments
Classic Richard…
“Before Rudd there was no Rudd”
You’re welcome.
You ramble like an idiot.
Sad what time does to the brain. Time for the oldies home Richard, your thought processes are f**ked.
Ever wondered why 99% of people you talk to think your an idiot? Hint, it’s not that you are more intelligent than them, it’s because you make not sense, you spin in circle of bullshit. You make no sense. Your brain is just simply rooted.
“Competitive market destroyed”
There was no competitive consumer fixed line market to destroy before the NBN. Telstra quashed it all.
Your comment is invalid.
Nailed it.
No local loop bundling, dark fibre interconnections, more RSPs…
Sure;-) Unsurprising Brisy line boy fell for you tosh (as he always does).
“No local loop bundling, dark fibre interconnections, more RSPs…”
You do understand that in English, that was not a sentence.
Brisy line boy?
Says the self proclaimed numbers guru, who doesn’t know the difference between 16m and 60m… ROFL
Apology accepted.
Rizz don’t forget he was comparing his own figures without the $700 ducts and pit cost vs quigley cost which included the ducts and pits.
You prove your ignorance in your first paragraph with the accusation that Quigley was in it for the performance bonus. All your other comments can be taken with the same grain of salt, as they too are based on untruths.
You prove your ignorance in your first paragraph with the accusation I claimed that Quigley was in it for the performance bonus. All your other comments can be taken with the same grain of salt, as they too are based on untruths.
At least you are able to quote a sentence…
@ Richard and Annie
Nice work Annie… !!!!!
Richard is part of the Abbott brigade of good ol’ 50’s boys, that still think and will openly say, you should be ironing, not telling a man (sorry “the” man) such home truths…
So falling to new lows now Richard.
And defensive semantics too I see… *golfclap*
You were clearly mentioning Quigley and Conroy and then spoke of management bonuses.
So if you wish to argue over “accused or inferred” go right ahead, we’d expect no less, as you are becoming as childishly argumentative (but with that added EGO too) as the other ideologues here.
Regardless, the intent of your comment was clear…
If not why TF did you even mention it?
Kudos Annie/You’re welcome Richard
According to Richard, I am the one re-writing history (not him) as to him being the instigator of unpleasantness – here…
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/08/01/accc-opens-superfast-broadband-competition/#comment-757145
Well let’s do a quick comparison…. here’s one thing I claimed about what Richard said then, that’s rebutted now, however…
” … he then rattled off his supposed credentials, suggesting his was the only opinion of worth and he was infinitely more educated, get a job, stop getting handouts (maybe even get a haircut)… all the gems came out?’”
And look what Richard says currently (above)…
… ”enjoy taxpayers (not many here)”
Now: Enjoy tax payers (not many here)…
Then: get a job, stop getting handouts
I rest my case.
Apology accepted.
They have become scammers themselves. Instead of catching scams.
Faulty ADSL revamps is not superfast and neither is 25mbps.
In other news from the ACCC; latest market indicators report (30 June 2016) released end of last week. Prior version missed by delimiter despite my link and the data being the most insightful look into the policy’s performance; including exposing actual service numbers (delims guessing, out by an order of magnitude), speeds underperforming forecast (delims demanding higher speeds), contention issues with 1.05mbps customer average provisioned CVC (delims argued against contention for years, didn’t know anything about it).
See what “analysis” the “geniuses” can come up with, straying from their abuse and bile often unkind:
https://www.accc.gov.au/regulated-infrastructure/communications/national-broadband-network-nbn/nbn-wholesale-market-indicators-report/reports
I’ll revisit it in a couple of days:-)
Fuck off you senile cunt
Now thats a bit harsh.
I Disagree, He deserves it if all he’s doing is spinning made believe fairy dust and bullsh*t and won’t listen to the obvious facts. He had he’s chance to fix himself up but he decided to use that chance to spray more bullsh*t instead. I don’t know why Renai didn’t code or add some sort of report feature to moderate sh*t content that people like Richard post. This site and discussion would probably be going 10x better if Trolls like Richard didn’t exist but alas this is the internet and there’s bound to be troll and nonsense posters anyway.
In the end, the fool get’s what he deserves.
I dont agree with Richard very often (might have happened once, maybe twice), but theres still no need for that sort of language.
I get the frustration of dealing with him, I feel it too, but swearing like that serves no purpose that a simple “your comment is invalid” wouldnt do.
Most of his rants about abuse and bile are a joke, and easy to ignore, but that sort of language is exactly that. And as much as I disagree with Richards approach to this whole debate, theres still no need for it.
For what its worth, you wouldnt believe how many times I’ve gone to write something similar myself, only to pause and change my comments. Its just not worth it.
GongGav
I think the anise and bile Richard claims is his abuse and bile towards Quigley Conroy.
Because that all any of his post are.
Renai was supportive of my posts here (posted it publicly, still there). Whilst out opnion a were often different, unlike the uninformed snowflakes he recognised I knew what I was talking about. He also recognised the shallow understanding of the fanboys and their modus operandi of foul abuse and bile.
Post above one of dozens. As before didn’t take long for support. Exposing them a laugh, they’ve nothing else.
So snowflake how is the blowouts going with the policy you could have written
“Renai was supportive of my posts here”
No, Renai was supportive of your posting here…a big difference!
@Richard,
Trolls = return visitors,(to rebutt your bs.) = more clicks = hey advertisers look how much activity my site gets = more advertising revenue = MORE MONEY!
From Renais’ point-of-view, MAYBE,(because you rarely posted anything even remotely insightful) you were a less obvious troll to any potential, or current advertiser, that sought to scan through some comments, as you put a bit more effort into your posts than other trolls.
Money talks.
Later, RIPP.
Richard: I think your posts and reality’s posts are the only ones I have ever seen him regularly (not every time, but more often than never) weigh in to say they were way off.
There is a difference between Renai leaving your posts because they add to the discussion, and Renai “Supporting” your posts.
If we use your logic for Renai “Supporting” posts, then he “Supports” All of our posts, and there are a hell of a lot more of us posting here than you.
Protip: he doesn’t support your post, he doesn’t support anyones post. Unless he replies to them and says: “I support this post”.
@pa I didn’t claim Renai “supported” my posts, but that he was “supportive”. In his own words (there’s others):
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/03/03/new-nbn-leak-reveals-secret-plans-much-cheaper-fttp/#comment-720900
Reflect on the abuse preceding his comment (more of the same).
“I didn’t claim Renai “supported” my posts”
I believe you said “Renai was supportive of my posts here”…
Not “Renai was supportive of my posting here”
Reflect on the difference…
Renai wrote : “hey Richard,
you raise some very valid points here [my post].”
There’s others. Reflect on the difference…
Richard I see you are cherry-picking “again”…
Is it cherry season?
You pick the one and only positive ever from RLM… lol, as you do with your biased figures…and ignore the rest (which you are most aware of as are most of us here)…ROFL at the poor sorry, ego… which needs to be fed.
But have a bleedin’ obvious flaw to those cherries thrown back at you, and instead of manning up you’ll drop them (as you did the CBA) quicker than you’ll drop the chest beating of, your commissioning to write the greatest construction debacle in our history MTM…
The vanity is amazing.
You’re welcome.
Richard I remeber Renai calling one of your usually Conroy quigley rants as comment invalid
@JasonK
I seem to recall an “invalid” being called against Richard also, maybe even a few times by Renai,(not easy to Google/search for though, unfortunately).
Later, RIPP :)
@Richard,
Renai has also LOL’d at stuff you posted as a serious post.
Because your post &/or figures were laughable in rational context to the story/news being discussed.
Renai FULL POST reply Quote to Richard:
“Renai LeMay 26/05/2016 at 2:07 pm
FTTN 36,190
lol”
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/05/26/nbn-reaches-1-million-customer-milestone/#comment-740143
Later, RIPP :)
@Richard,
This’ll be rather embarressing for you…
Maybe you should’ve thought twice, before posting your above Renai comment link.
LINK: https://delimiter.com.au/2016/03/03/new-nbn-leak-reveals-secret-plans-much-cheaper-fttp/#comment-720900
Further quote from Richards’ link:
“This is precisely the kind of useful dissent which I hope to stimulate from you when I gave you a bit of a kick up the ass the other day”
So Renai has had to pull you into line a few times,(“bit of a kick up the ass”)…
Unfortunately Renai doesn’t have time to read all of your posts & keep straightening you out it would appear.
Ps. Troll posts = increase in impressions & uniques/month = more money = trolls tolerated.
https://delimiter.com.au/advertise/
Delimiter uses number of uniques & impressions per MONTH* to bolster ad sales.
(*) With most people having dynamic ip’s… the uniques over 1 month are greater than the actual unique visitors.
The more a person returns to rebutt a troll, or simply read troll posts, or replies to troll posts, the higher the chances their ip will have changed, so now an extra unique will be present in the logs, but not from an extra unique visitor to the site.
Later, RIPP :)
@ri provides two links that are supportive of my position, whilst bizarrely claiming they’re “rather embarressing for you [me]”.
Lol, QED.
@Richard,
** I use post+edit more as a spellcheck, layout check, myself ;) **
Richard initial post before edit,(ref. email sub. notification):
—-
“@ri provides two links that support my position, claiming “rather embarressing for you [me]”.
Unsurprisingly the squealer’s can’t understand basic posts, what hope do they have with technology? ”
—-
You’re currently, clearly, more Deluded than Reality.
One link has Renai laughing at you & your supplied figures & the other mentions that he had recently kicked you in the ass, to seek to have you post more appropriately.
Btw., LAZY MUCH!?… You can’t even fully write out a 4 letter nick.
Ps. Weren’t you playing the victim the other day, because people were being mean to you,(a super nice polite guy)? Oops!
Love to see links to me squeeling… Good-luck with that .. LOL XD
Links to me kicking your ass, via quality rebuttals, will, however, be super easy to find ;)
Later, RIPP.
@ri Renai was laughing at the figure, not that it was supplied. As noted further in the thread I was the only one that supplied the actual number, all other posts bile (as here). The irony is the actual was from the first ACCC market indicators report, I’ve now linked to the second (still no analysis).
Renai called out posts for coherency (I don’t waste much time; “lazy” if you like whatever), but repeatedly acknowledged my understanding of the topic. As below when straying from abuse and bile the fanboys’ shallow understanding is easily exposed.
You’ve posted zero contributions, like here.
@Richard,
You posted figures to try to support the FTTN joke;
“FTTN growing rapidly, FTTH rollout winding down.”
Renai then laughed at how patheically low the FTTN number was & thus at you & your delusions re: FTTN growing rapidly.
Richard Quote: “…but repeatedly acknowledged my understanding of the topic.”
Super deluded; Renai acknowleged that occasionally* you make some interesting points. Even when he doesn’t agree with your posts.
(*) VERY VERY OCCASIONALLY, if Renai had read all of your posts.
Btw., if you understand fully all terms & topics of which you write about, then please stop lying & being deceitful with your posts, especially your stats & graph ones.
I don’t often initiate replies to you, as it would have me being required to read your often incoherent posts, multiple times over, so that I could then appropriately reply to your mis-leading and/or straight-up false ramblings.
When I have sought to post a rebuttal, against your posts, you’ve generally run away within a post or two and avoided replying…
Strangely I often subsequently hear whispered chanting; “I see no evil, I hear no evil… I see no evil, I hear no evil…” repeated incessantly.
BTW., $29 Billion all up, fully costed, not a penny more, mtm nbn finished to all by the end of 2016 … how well is that progressing?
Are we still on budget & on time? ..LOL XD
Later, RIPP ;)
@ RIPP (to Richard)
You posted figures to try to support the FTTN joke;
“FTTN growing rapidly, FTTH rollout winding down.”
Renai then laughed at how pathetically low the FTTN number was & thus at you & your delusions re: FTTN growing rapidly.
——-
+1 absolutely.
Like fibre being the end goal, everyone “else” can clearly see Renai why Renai did what he did, except one…
Amazing
True, and I doubt he’s senile yet…
Hahahhahaha i love it +1
“I’ll revisit it in a couple of days:-)”
Please don’t. Your comments are neither insightful nor wanted.
Unlike your insightful post;-)
Clearly ACCC data of no value to the delims, most likely not comprehended (like all performance data for several years now).
@ Richard,
Disclaimer: I haven’t read the linked ACCC doc, only just read this article in the last 30 -40 mins.
So on the surface, what is wrong with this picture?
A L(l)ibertarian, free market crusader, such as yourself – using a regulatory bodies info to try to talk up a GBE.
Isn’t that like Cory Bernardi – using union info to talk up the Labor party?
By the way I saw a clip of Bill Maher interviewing Gary Johnson… GJ likes his hash cookies..!
Do all L(l)ibertarians indulge Richard… it may explain a lot.
You’re welcome
“Disclaimer: I haven’t read the linked ACCC doc…”
Goes without saying; thousands of abusive posts, zero insight. Alex’s record is unbeatable.
Nice rewriting of history below. Guess you were repeatedly banned here and there because of my posts;-) remarkably several years on you’ve learned nothing about the topic, a performance matched by Brisy boy.
“Goes without saying; thousands of abusive posts, zero insight. Alex’s record is unbeatable.”
Clear as mud…green is a PRIMARY colour…the brown smell is unmatchable!
(trying to learn richardese…)
@ Richard…
“Nice rewriting of history below. Guess you were repeatedly banned here and there because of my posts”
No you got yourself banned remember…ROFL.
Mine occurred after deciding people such as you and your blind cultist ways, deserve to be treated in kind and you didn’t like it when I served it back and more did you?
And seriously, you the one who knows (in hindsight) why the iron wires needed replacing but lacks any foresight whatsoever, as to copper and the comparison with iron, talks of another’s insight…?
You are also, about the only person anywhere who believes fibre is not the end goal and that copper is not only obsolete, but will suffice …
So as you obviously missed former Republican Presidential Candidate and L(l)ibertarian, Steve Forbes take (the first 10 times) allow me again to demonstrate that all right leaning/L(i)ibertarians aren’t all flat earthers, like you.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/11/copper-wire-technology-whose-time-has-passed.html
BTW – I didn’t mind Gary Johnson and you didn’t answer me about those hash cookies… curious.
So in case you missed this last time too (probably reading Atlas Shrugged for the 300th time and still getting all aroused)…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5lZPWNFizQ
Waxman: In other words you found your view of the world, your ideology was not right, it was not working?
Greenspan: Precisely, that’s precisely the reason I was shocked because I’d been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence that it was working exceptionally well…
Oh dear your whole lifelong beliefs (like Al’s) is nothing more than a sham… but the rest of us already knew that.
Anyhoo,
Is this you Richard? It’s very close in name, temperament and ego, I’d suggest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_0Y8OCAgk8
And now you wonder why other people (as we have clearly seen here) simply have decided to go the lowest common denominator when having tried to rationally correspond with such cult blindness and huge narcissism as your’s Richard.
Amazing.
Apology accepted
“straying from their abuse and bile often unkind”
It’s exactly what your mocking holier than thou posts deserve. At least others are pussy footing about with their insults, they are telling you straight.
“Prior version missed by delimiter despite my link and the data being the most insightful look into the policy’s performance”
Self promotion really leaves me cold. I’ll take Jxeeno over your pseudo-rambles any day. He is certainly insightful.
You, however, don’t need to be read. I see the name and know it’s going to be an anti-Labor, anti-Quigley, neoconservative rant using selective data to support your “conclusions” i.e. deductive fallacies. Not something that insight is made of.
Richard, you lost any audience you had a long time ago. That’s where the “abuse and bile” comes from. It (the abuse and bile) is not useful, but even casual visitors aren’t reading past your name any more. You’ve neutered yourself with your combative style, now people are responding in (less eloquent) kind because they’ve lost patience. Me personally, I just shake my head, because every conversation with you is a foregone conclusion.
Regardless of what’s happened, if you’d like to make an anti-Delimiter (or anti-Labor, anti-Quigley etc) blog Richard … get to it, you’ll at least have a couple of others as visitors. I’m sure it will get all the attention it deserves.
“I’ll revisit it in a couple of days”
I’m sure you will. You’ve got nowhere else to go.
Indeed. But basically you only have to read the first sentence to get the gist of the ill-informed nonsense. Boring and predictable.
The moment I see Richards name is the moment I flip the “Ignore” switch in my brain. Unfortunately my time isn’t worth being wasted reading and replying to he’s dumb comments.
I’d rather be reading comments that are constructive, had thoughts put into them and also have facts and again not the made believe pig wash.
Yeah right, you all ignored my post; well after reading them (not the same as comprehending) then posting zero content retorts;-)
Richard – the problem is that very few of us can even understand your posts…they are just fragments of partial thoughts that are apparently spewed onto your keyboard.
the problem is that very few of us can even understand your posts…
ain’t that the truth, but obviously you and your MtM hater brothers think that spitting out abuse is a valid substitute for not being able to understand.
You also use that response as a repetitive excuse for not being able to respond with rational thought and counter facts so fill the void with swearing and abuse, that should do it.
Well Chas when they are so dedicated to defending a politically motivated clusterfuck of a network something eventually has to give with all the spinning and and flip-flopping. They certainly cant keep track of their contradictions. What you are witnessing is the end result of the meltdown, best disregard it like I do.
@Reality,
The continuation of your selective Chas quote:
“they are just fragments of partial thoughts that are apparently spewed onto your keyboard.”
The fact that you don’t understand Chas’ post above is hilarious.
Pity it still had you seek to selectively quote them to spin your argument… or did you, ACTUALLY, understand their post & seek to spin & bs. off of it, with selective quoting in a lame attempt at pretending that it is the majority of site commentators that seek not to post coherently, with logic & forethought, as opposed to just you few in; Richard & Reality, etc..
Reality Quote: “…to respond with rational thought and counter facts”
Whenever anyone responds to your posts with rationality & accurate facts, countering your position, you seek to sidestep the fact that you were proven wrong,(again) or run away crying & avoid admitting your mistakes/bs..
[Hands Reality a new full box of tissues]
Later, RIPP.
“ain’t that the truth”
Yes, it is…I am not sure what language it is, but English it is not.
I assume you hail from the same planet as Richard?
Wow Delimiter has really taken a turn for the worst in the comments section :(
You really need a moderator Renai/Daniel/whoever is running this place now.
Hi Soth :)
They actually do have a moderator,(of sorts).
Any money making spam posts get deleted, easy to spot direct swearing at people also,(eventually atleast) usually are deleted,(but not marked in thread as a post deleted was here).
What they don’t seem to ever moderate, however, is deliberate trolling actions, by Richard & his ilk, hence some people get so sick of the bs & lies that they stop with polite accurate rebuttals & instead tell them to go-get-nicked.
Even lurkers, that by their nature, don’t like posting, eventually get so sick of the trolling, that they then post to tell Richard, like in the comments today,(many new faces) to bugger off.
If trolls weren’t unmoderated, then the short swearing, go-get-nicked posts, would not exist, but Delimiter seems to love the click-bait these trolls create for people to keep revisiting the pages & keep stories alive.
Later, RIPP :)
Rizz, RIPP, Jason K, HotCakes, Snow Crash, Hubert Cumberdale etc, and one off’s FedUpExpress, NotRichard etc etc,
But personal abuse from you and your myriad sock puppet name tags to make it look as if you have the ‘numbers’ is ok, while patting yourself on the back on a job well done with ‘nailed it’ ‘+100’ etc blah in hijacking and dominating the subject with off topic no fact BS.
Troll / devoid / idiot
The personal attacks was stated by you when you stared calling everyone Rizz
@jk classic post. Impossible for any self-reflection.
The personal attacks were actually started by Richard at ZD years ago when I referred to his off topic comment as uneducated.
He had no idea of topical correspondence…and his comment “was” uneducated…
But he took offence and he then rattled off his supposed credentials, suggesting his was the only opinion of worth and he was infinitely more educated, get a job, stop getting handouts (maybe even get a hair cut)… all the gems came out?’
Like WTF.
Ok Richard I’ll say it I think some of the above stuff aimed at you was totally inappropriate.
Do you think a poster deliberately calling poster’s someone else to flame or deliberately avoiding their own completely contradictory comments made previously and now, is any less inappropriate?
Indeed Rizz. Clearly his destruction on Zdnet by you myself and others such as Tinman & Abel had a very profound effect on him. Exactly why we see this irrational behavior on Delimiter today. He’s still trying to win arguments that he lost years ago and failing. But as I said to GongGav watching RR squirm sure is fun ;-)
Indeed HC,
Seems, like our dear flat earther friend, being the only person anywhere who believes fibre “is not” the end goal and that “copper will suffice/isn’t obsolete”… he’s also the only person who believes we are the one’s rewriting history (lol) and even more laughable after clearly stating (and you even copy/pasted it FFS) “he could have been commissioned to write the Coalitions (MTM) policy”… he still denies…
Amazing.
@Mr_Offtopic, Change_Goalposts; I mean Reality,(Obviously),
Your post was super lame, total bs & delusional,(re: everyone, bar know-nothing trolls, must be Rizz).
Btw., to the best of my recollection, I’ve never personally abused you Reality.
Occasionally I may have stated well known facts however.
If you can quote me & supply a link I have actually personally abused you in, I would be most interested.
Ps. Just because you get a total spanking via an accurate rebuttal to your nonsense, that makes you cry & run away, it does not make that personal abuse;
It simply means you need to obtain facts & understanding of a topic & terms, before posting dribble.
Later, RIPP :)
Nailed it.
Grow up alain…
+ 1
I just find it bizarre that NBN Co have the cahoneys to call FTTN broadband, let alone “Superfast”
According to this Image (http://blog.thinkbroadband.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/3-fttc-cab-poster.jpg) BT
(British Telecom) at one point also called their FTTC / VDSL Broadband Super fast.
Looks like we aren’t the only ones labeling FTTN as “super fast broadband”.
“Looks like we aren’t the only ones labeling FTTN as “super fast broadband”.”
The difference is that that was 4 years ago…
FTTN was an excellent technology last decade (as was HFC), but technology changes very quickly…
BTW, in many countries, 25Mbps peak isn’t legally allowed to be called broadband…it’s just not fast enough.
It’s mostly the Same technology anyway. Except they don’t use Pillars (Phone pillars mind you) and they call their FTTN rollout Fibre to the Curb (Mostly close to street curbs)
Either way it’s still VDSL Technology and the cabniet design is different to what we have over here, but is just given a different name for what ever fancy’s BT. I guess they don’t like the word “Node” much.
“It’s mostly the Same technology anyway”
True…but the distances are much closer in the UK, the copper is much better, and keep in mind that they released it in January of 2010. Back then, FTTP was much more expensive than today. They have since begun the change to FTTP, but it will be slow in the land of Brexit methinks…
@c BT’s maximum copper length ~3.5km vs NBNCo’s ~1km. BT trialling “Long-reach VDSL” for +2km drops and newer profiles. They haven’t changed to FTTP (targeted markets only).
Too easy:-)
@r Untrue…
“The plan will also see a shift towards fibre to the premises (FTTP), with BT saying it aims to reach two million premises with the technology”
“At the end of April, rival Virgin Media announced what it called the “largest UK fibre broadband rollout”, planned to bring FTTP to around a million premises as part of an expansion it calls “Project Lightning””
Your specs on cable length are also incorrect…
Also note…”We must add that Openreach has already covered over 300,000 UK premises with FTTP through older deployments, although the new roll-out should be a bit faster and cheaper thanks to various recent improvements in the build and installation process”
@c what are the max cable lengths, since mine are “incorrect” (not)? (chuckles).
You give two examples of “targeted” FTTP deployments; BT “aiming” for 2m / has 25m FTTC premises, virgin 1m an extension of their HFC network not overbuilding copper. (Rofl)
Sorry Richard where is you link claiming the Max length is 1km since you claim it’s not longer.
@jk Statement of expectations mandates min 25mbps. Using existing thechnologies that’s ~1km (practically 1.1km for NBNCo). BT doesn’t have such restriction, connecting much longer copper runs (and why their interest in “long reach VDSL2”. Refer to our copper speeds improving over all copper lengths destruction of your position.
Several years in and they still don’t understand the fundamentals. Looking forward the c’s numbers (rofl)
@R
Yes the SOE said at least 25Mbps but they are not delivering that are they its now only for 1 sec in a day now is t it.
But then that’s to the link shows the max length of the copper is it. So again please show a link of where is said the mex copper length is 1km please.
Yeah they are trying to with long reach but it’s not rollout yet now is it Richard. But again what is the main reason of increase speed with copper oh the copper is shorter and what there is more fibre.
@R
What even better they don’t even test the speed of the copper to whether it able to even get 25Mbps
BT is looking at Long Reach VDSL mostly for rural areas.
FttC (which is what BT uses, not FttN) is typically runs of 300-400m.
Just adding a few facts to the discussion ;o)
So snowflake where is this link to the claim the copper length is only 1Km or are you just blowing hot air out your arse as usual
JK…
You aren’t suggesting that Richard is “the missing link”… are you? ;)
But I love Richard’s squirming…LOL
At least the lap dog argues over one word, such as may or might…
Good old Richard, to protect the biggest ego in history, will argue over a few different letters, in what is for all intents and purposes one fucking word … selected and selective!
But, but, but… LMFAO at the vanity and fragility…
What hope do rational, non-flat earther, non-cultist, impartial thinkers have, when corresponding in regards to multi-paged docs, when the person you are corresponding with, will “disgracefully to protect his ego”, argue over each and every fucking letter, in each and every fucking word…
ROFL at the lameness, it just gets better with these rad cons …
I know Rizz lol.
I ask for a link and he dribbles on about the at least 25Mbps in the SOE which NBN isn’t delivering. Then going on about calulation on lab grade copper to get 25Mbps which NBN isn’t using.
I know the can’t supply it just like watching waffle on lying on to try and make his point. Then he will then probably then claim he’d isn’t say it didn’t mean max length of 1km.
C’mon JK…
Surely “Richard says (much like the evergreen Simon says)” is unquestionably good enough, no link to substantiate is required…
After all… it’s not as though Richard would, spin, twist, exaggerate, cherry-pick, stretch the truth, blow his own trumpet and or out and out fucking lie now, is it?
Oh wait.
Richard, and Renai (though not so much), are both suggesting people should look out for themselves.
It’s the Libertine way.
I don’t agree, but I respect Renai a lot more than Richard. Richard is more than happy to bend things his way (when have you ever seen Richard post anything that supports his position that isn’t something he has “generated” to support it??
Richard will never post something supporting his position, (he can’t, unless he refers to “Richard Charts”), you’ll only ever see a post from him reflecting back on something he’s posted. He does not like actual “facts”
That’s how it works.
Lol I know Richard can’t back up his lie of max 1km copper length. All he can do is just waffle.
But I will keep asking.
He mostly just reference’s himself, don’t worry about it, if he was trying to do a PHD, he’d be getting nowhere.
This image springs to mind: http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/c1/c11ccf4e9e7bc8a030cb1feee9014fa40854ebf759f160c2cfa03995741a0d63.jpg
“The consumer watchdog has launched a public inquiry into why internet companies cannot deliver advertised broadband speeds.”
So they allow faulty ADSL revamps and HFC to be sold as FTTP and labelled super fast. Pretty much scamming people.
They allowed the Liberals to trash fibre internet.
Then scratching their heads after why it can’t deliver. Are they really that dumb ?
They need to sell FTTN as ADSL, HFC as HFC and fibre as fibre. There is no NBN.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/media-and-marketing/consumer-watchdog-launches-inquiry-into-broadband-speed-claims-20160726-gqdt1y.html
My comment on the ACCC page
Why are you puzzled that ADSL upgrades which is what FTTN is is already falling over ? Everyone experiences massive downtime with both telephone lines and cable. Because it’s copper.
Industry was no kidding why it was not going to work. So why allow it to be sold off as if it was fibre ?
People are now being scammed into 100/40 plans the faulty copper will never deliver. Consumers have a right to pay less if they get less.
Right now you have allowed copper to be sold off as fibre and so people are being charged double for ADSL. They are replacing ADSL with even faultier ADSL.
What you need to do is tear up any reference to NBN. It needs to be sold by what technology is used.
Superfast / Trouble free slogans is a SCAM and wrong. Connections that go down when it rains, that becomes congested and crawls to ADSL speed as HFC will is not superfast.
You must stop the ISP’s trying to flog off the faulty copper connection will be speed boosted with their AC wifi routers as Telstra and TPG have done. That is a blatant scam.
This was the whole point of universal FTTP which the Liberals trashed. A less complicated single technology. That you actually get what you pay for. You pay for 100/40 you get 100/40. That businesses especially could get even more in the future.
“Up to” is exactly what people suffer with now.
Now the NBN is an ADSL and HFC revamp. A joke. 25mbps is a joke too. Just like trying to sell Satellite connections with a massive 600ms latency. That is completely unusable. That kind of latency is a joke.
If a brand new NBN is so faulty and has to keep being repaired. Repaired as copper wires in waterlogged pits as FTTN will suffer just like ADSl. Or a HFC connection that goes down for 3-4 days at a time like HFC already does.
This should be raising alarm bells.
This is not a world class internet, just being marketed as such but simply scamming people into paying more for what they already have !
Remember people. People who had no idea were promised a cheaper internet and they really did get a cheap second rate internet. Only they pay double for it. Just like tax payers just paid double for it thanks to the cost blowouts.
The idea of an NBN stopped in September 2013.
They are simply rolling out copper now to save face, no matter how further it blows out as they blew the 56 billion already from 27 billion.
They are imposing connections people do not want or need. They don’t even consult people when doing the construction. This is fascism.
It has to be replaced in 3 years time ? A complete mismanagement of public money that is totally inadequate for business.
What is worse the NBN “on demand fibre” they are extorting businesses into 10k installs. If these fibre connections ever have to go back to these mini ADSL exchanges there is a threat of complete disruption.
Many have been installed in flood zones.
These ADSL exchanges are an abomination and serve no purpose other than to prove temporarily the Liberals delivered something when they haven’t.
They’ve just prevented businesses getting fibre they need so economic vandalism. The money they blew on ADSL upgrades could have gone to installing fibre for business. This is how spiteful the government is.
Nailed it. Exactly why I refer to “NBNco” as GimpCo now.
The NBN is dead.
Now all we can do is hope that Private industry actually can meet expectations. Past experience suggests otherwise, but we have no other choice as long as the Government continues to ignore telecommunications as important necessary infrastructure for modern Social and Economic growth.
Disgusting and abusive comments from some FTTP supporters. Funny how many moderates stand by and say nothing.
Typical.
So when I called Richard a snowflake after calling others that disgusting and abusive
Come now KingForce.
The Copper supporters use abuse terms as well. They simply coach it in terms that are not obviously so, that way when someone starts retorting, they can claim innocence. It’s an age old troll tactic, as I am sure you are aware.
In addition the specific copper trolls that are being referred to here. Richard, Reality, Mathew etc, have all repeatedly made comments with only the intention to cause drama. By calling people “Fanboys” if they support the FTTP in any manner, by refusing to answer specific questions, by retorting with a vaguely related question instead of directly answering, by using one set of data to support their argument but then declaiming other data in the same set, by moving the goalposts, by blaming Labor/Quigley/Conroy for issues that have been out of their hands for more than 3 years now, calling delays of the original NBN design as failures but ignoring the delays of the current design, by claiming that different posters are actually the same poster, by wording statistics in such a way to make the original plan look bad when it actually shows the reverse, and so on, and so on.
I don’t think they should be abused. But I do understand those who lose it with them. I myself am guilty of referring to Richard as a “Liar and a Cad”. I have possibly said worse, though offhand I can’t recall it.
These individuals refuse to even countenance the possibility that they may be mistaken, or indeed that there are any issues with the FTTN and greater MTM at all. Unlike the FTTP supporters, who generally are willing to accept new information, will compromise on elements and will admit to being incorrect when proven so.
Reality for example loves to point out that some of the “FTTP” crowd now agree with the HFC portion. What he misses is that many of us realise that since the implementation of MTM, we now must work with what is there, and HFC is the lesser of the MTM evils. But despite many of us pointing that out to him, repeatedly, he continues to spout the same tripe over and over again. It is a little exhausting at times.
+ many Woolfe
Or KingForce (gotta love the flat earther’s monikers eh? Kingforce, Reality, Lord Watchdog – ffs who do you blokes actually think you are…?).
Seriously…
Anyway whilst I have already said I do not condone comments to such levels… I could of course go to your mate Reality’s (ill) logic playbook by suggesting those nasty comments towards Richard were actually made by Reality to make the FTTP proponents look bad…
I’m absolutely positive if the boot was on the other foot (after having seen him continually idiotically suggest that everyone here is me,,,lol) that, that’s exactly what he’d be claiming…
@kf some? (Rofl)
Congratulations on you and gg calling it out. Won’t have any impact, it’s all they have. As here they’re either supportive of the vile abuse or excuse it. Thousands of their posts, a handful of contributions.
The introspection of toddlers; “Equally”, “accept new information”, quotes that aren’t, …;-)
And yet Richard your bile and abuse continues been called out by others but then snowflake your support your own abuse.
@jk chas sure to descend;-)
Yes snowflake I have descended to your level by calling you snowflake but then have to thankyou on giving me your new name.
@jk talking about your incomprehensible post. Copying nothing new, indeed expected.
Come on snowflake aka numbers man who has trouble even getting numbers right but don’t give up your day job, ohh wait.
@ Richard,
Enough diversion from “your” MTM debacle…
Explain (without using Conroy, Quigley et al as your lame excuses – noooooo) how “your faster/cheaper MTM plan” was promised @ $29.5B fully costed and ready to roll, with a minimum of 25Mbps to be available to all Aussies by 2016.
But in actuality it took two years to even start rolling out the major portion of the infrastructure FTTN (according to your lap dog), the “cheaper” cost has blown out horrendously to as much as $70B (according to the former treasurer/UPTO ((lol)) $56B by the lackeys) and the “faster” network won’t get to us all until at least 2020…
Why it is again that MTM is so great?
Gee that was a looong question wasn’t it!
But it’s not a trick question. As the smartest man in the history of history (just ask you)…
GO
You’re welcome.
I’m generally indifferent to the comments against you Richard, believing them to be neither vile or abuse in most instances. Most of the time your accusation of them being that is either laughable or able to be easily ignored. You’re either trolling, or have the thinnest skin of anyone I’ve come across online.
Where they are actually vile and/or abusive though, at least you now know that I will disagree with the comment. Given your comments over time I’m actually surprised you dont get c-bombed more often though to be honest.
I notice that when I do a search for ‘richard’ (prior to writing this comment) I get 80 matches. Out of 115 comments thats one hell of a strikerate.
Nailed it.
Absolutely GG and HC…
Again I reiterate, all of the unpleasantness, started because the thin skinned one’s huge ego was dented (refer here) by myself (and HC) at ZD years ago… because I called his off topic drivel “uneducated”… that’s it!
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/08/01/accc-opens-superfast-broadband-competition/#comment-757145
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/08/01/accc-opens-superfast-broadband-competition/#comment-757274
Funny thing is, to prove my point, over the last few days Richard has repeated himself from years ago (as per my linked comments) by claiming we are not taxpayers/receiving handouts and was also claiming himself superior (this time to NK)..
“Understand far more than you’ll ever.
As such, I don’t even need to prove what I claimed from years ago, Richard has proved what I claimed from years ago by repeating (on cue… lol, good boy Ricky) the same pompous and baseless egotistical fucking drivel again, now…
Priceless…
@ Richard, I can’t see my congratulations for “calling it out” too ..curious.
Obviously you missed it, in your mouth-frothing impatience and compulsion to reply (with typical Richard-esque, pompous abuse and bile)… to my home truths about you instigating the abuse and bile, you now forever sob about (reap what you sow Richard).
You’re welcome
Rizz – from above 1/8 – Ok Richard I’ll say it, I think some of the above stuff aimed at you was totally inappropriate.
https://delimiter.com.au/2016/08/01/accc-opens-superfast-broadband-competition/#comment-757145
Apology accepted
Ever heard that phrase about burning bridges?
Isnt that the one where there is a bridge, and someone burns it?
Thank you Kingsforce.
Why do you consider “moderates” an issue you fascist prick?
“Disgusting and abusive comments from some FTTP supporters”
And equally from some MTM supporters…
“Funny how many moderates stand by and say nothing.”
Isn’t it though?
“Typical”
Of what?
Indeed Chas. This is something that they are completely oblivious to, this article a prime example of how they can give it but not take it. Seems though anything you say is enough to set them off and they will cry “abuse”. Very sensitive (indicative of the disastrous clusterfuck network they support) I don’t even bother corresponding with them anymore since they have nothing valid to say yet alain couldn’t help but mention me. No doubt due to feeling butthurt over the numerous debates he’s lost over the years here.
when i looked at the figure of 14756 dollars .Than I have no other choice but to accept , what i saw .They have been doing this for a year and get rid of their debts.. Yesterday they purchased nevv Aston Martin …
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When I viewed your spam, I have no other choice than to accept that you are a thief and a liar…
So what you are inferring is Chas…
That the usual suspect, cultist, politically ideological, safety bubble dwelling, 1950’s, flat earther, wing nutted, rad con, lunatic MTM brainiacs here…
… will of course…. welcome him with open arms, as one of their own.
;)
Wait… do you mean 14756 dollars isnt true? I’VE BEEN LIED TO!!!
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