New policy: Labor would dump FTTN for FTTP, keep HFC

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news The Opposition today released a new National Broadband Network policy for the Federal Election, with Labor committing to dumping the Coalition’s Fibre to the Node plans and supporting Fibre to the Premises instead, but keeping the other HFC cable, satellite and wireless aspects of the current plan.

You can download Labor’s full revised NBN policy document online here in PDF format.

In addition, Labor is set to hold a press conference on the NBN policy release in Sydney at 10:15AM this morning. It is expected the event will be broadcast on news channels such as ABC News 24 and/or Sky News.

In a statement issued this morning, Opposition Leader Bill Shorten and Shadow Communications Minister Jason Clare said Labor’s plan would see FTTP rollout to up to two million more Australian homes and businesses than would have received the infrastructure under the Coalition.

The pair said the rollout of Malcolm Turnbull’s “second rate copper NBN” — Fibre-to-the-Node — would be phased out under Labor.

“Construction of Fibre to the Node will cease when the current pipeline of construction work is completed and design and construction of Fibre-to-the-Premises is scaled back up,” the pair said.

Labor would also commission Infrastructure Australia, with input from relevant experts, to manage the development of a plan that outlines how and when the parts of Australia left with FTTN should be transitioned to Fibre-to-the-Premises. This plan will be commissioned in the first term of a Shorten Labor Government.

The statement by Shorten and Clare contained little mention of the up to a third of the NBN which will consist of upgrading and extending the HFC cable networks owned by Telstra and Optus.

However, the new Labor NBN policy document released this morning makes it clear the rollout of HFC is set to continue under Labor, as under the Coalition.

“The Liberals have doubled the cost of their second rate NBN up to $56 billion,” Shorten and Clare went on.

“A Shorten Labor Government will cap the total funding for the NBN at $57 billion. Labor will spend exactly the same amount of public funding on the NBN as the Liberals. There will be no impact on the budget from this announcement.”

“The public equity contribution will be the same regardless of who wins the election. The difference is that up to two million more Australians will get a Fibre-to-the-Premises NBN under Labor.”

Shorten and Clare said the new policy meant that Labor would complete the initial rollout of the NBN by June 2022, “the same time the Liberals’ second-rate NBN is likely to be complete”.

The pair added: “Malcolm Turnbull has made a mess of the NBN. In the last three years: The cost of his second rate NBN has nearly doubled; The time it will take to build has more than doubled; [and] Australia has dropped from 30th in the world for internet speeds to 60th.”

“Malcolm Turnbull promised he could build a second rate copper NBN for $29.5 billion. This has now blown out to up to $56 billion,” the two Labor MPs said. “He also promised everyone in Australia would have access to the NBN this year. Currently less than 20 per cent of Australians have access to the NBN—a long way short of the 100 per cent he promised.”

“Worst of all, many Australians are getting a slower, second rate copper NBN that will not meet their needs into the future.”

“Fast broadband creates jobs. But you can’t have an innovation boom while you are still buffering. Australia’s global competitiveness will suffer as Malcolm Turnbull continues to roll out his second rate copper NBN, and opportunities for Australian enterprise and innovation will be lost to overseas markets—and the jobs will follow.”

“Malcolm Turnbull’s second rate NBN is holding Australia back. A Labor Government will fix Malcolm Turnbull’s mess and build the NBN we need to meet the needs of the future and create the jobs of the future.”

Opinion/analysis to follow throughout the day.

Image credit: Parliamentary Broadcasting

146 COMMENTS

  1. It’s is an absolute shambles that Turdbull completely stuffed. It’s more than a mess it was a robbery of our money. TO DEFEND MURDOCH AND KILL THE ECONOMY.

    HOWEVER.

    You’ve been sold a DUD. And it will take decades to get back to fibre for business. The Liberals blasted all the money that is why this is happening.

    What this means is most of Sydney and Melbourne who are already serviced with HFC will have a modern day ADSL network to handle. It will be crawling to ADSL speeds. Then people will have to now wait decades for fibre and stuck on ADSL equivalent services.

    Right now hardly anyone is on it that is clear, that is why people can get consistent speeds.

    Thanks the Liberals for blowing billions to buy back HFC instead of rolling out fibre to businesses.

    The HFC should never have been bought back, it was not costed and there was no plan. The 1 billion they have to spend on new hardware could have gone to rolling out fibre.

    Turdbull talks up big about innovation and strong economies but sold people a dud delivering faulty copper. HFC is faulty copper too and will fall over instantly. It doesn’t matter how much Telstra stole from us to keep HFC up by a thread.

    Telstra have such a great track recording building and maintaining their network NOT. They left it to waste.

      • And yet it was, and has to be dealt with. So, better to build to the other areas that don’t have it first, than to overbuild it now.

        • Still, gotta feel for the poor buggers that Malcolm has screwed in the mean time…

          • Basically, my parents. At least they won Node-lotto and its at the end of their 50m street.

        • Its not the weakest link. When it is, upgrade it. That should have always been the plan, it was silly of Labor to ignore it for so long.

    • The HFC should never have been bought back

      It wasn’t ‘bought back’.

      , it was not costed and there was no plan.

      Yes it was, it was costed in SR13 then again in CP16.

      The 1 billion they have to spend on new hardware could have gone to rolling out fibre.

      CPP on HFC is less than CPP on FTTP, so 1 billion on HFC goes much further than 1 billion on FTTP, which requires all new build.

      That’s why Labor are keeping it.

      • CPP on HFC is less than CPP on FTTP, so 1 billion on HFC goes much further than 1 billion on FTTP, which requires all new build.

        That’s why Labor are keeping it.

        Irrelevant. They are tied by the contracts Malcolm signed.

        • Is that the reason they said as to why they are keeping it? because NBN HFC has not been commercially released yet to ISP’s.

          • Troll fails again as the trials has already started and they have to keep it running Foxtel

          • because NBN HFC has not been commercially released yet to ISP’s.

            And? What does that have to do with anything?

          • “they have to keep it running Foxtel”

            Not true

            Foxtel is available on Telstra’s NBN Entertainment Plans.

            Currently HFC is only available in Metro areas. I know many people in Sydney suburbs that don’t have it available. Seeing that Foxtel is available on Telstras NBN plans it will therefore be available nationwide.

  2. Def need a future plan for HFC areas. But granted depending on exactly what is being laid there, we may have a few more years up our sleeve.

    • I assume that the plan to replace FTTN will also look at the HFC to FTTP transition.

      • Looks like it…

        “Labor will also commission Infrastructure Australia, with input from relevant experts, to manage the development of a plan that outlines how and when the parts of Australia left with Mr Turnbull’s second rate NBN should be transitioned to Fibre-to-the-Premises. This plan will be commissioned in the first term of a Shorten Labor Government.”

        It says the MTM, not FTTN…so I imagine that HFC is included in that study.

  3. It’s pretty much what I expected and a hell of a lot better than Malcolm’s full #Fraudband policy.

    At least if labor manage to kick these retrograde ass hats out, the country can recover from 3 years of fascism!

    • Policy indicative of the irreparable damage the imbecilic coalition clowns vandals have done.

      Sure they deserve some recognition for switching what they can to FttP but without a clear majority FttP build plan it is concerning.

  4. Wow, exactly like Scenario 4 from the SR. What a shock.

    Now what is Reality going to cry and moan about now that Labor has released their policy? I guess he will harp on about other nonsensical rubbish.

    • “Now what is Reality going to cry and moan about now that Labor has released their policy?”

      He will probably need some help reading it…

    • They will say it’s similar to MTM and try to claim this as their own.

      In no way, shape or form is this similar to MTM.

      • So true. It is probably the best way to deal with the mess (MTM ) Malcolm Turnbull s Mess. Unfortunately, I am slated to get FTTN in August. …..bugger

      • In no way, shape or form is this similar to MTM.

        Other than it has FTTN, FTTP, FTTB, fixed wireless and satellite , just like the MtM.

        • I have to agree, even the original Labor plan was MtM (before they even knew it!). Heck, Malcolm just copied and extended what they were doing.

    • Maybe someone could put the cry and moan in chart form?
      By my chart calculations the moan peak should hit right about… now.

    • Now what is Reality going to cry and moan about now that Labor has released their policy?

      It’s OK, he can still cry and moan about the LPA not releasing one yet (yeah, right….lets see how that works out ;o))

      • Nah, they totally have, its the one they’re rolling out!

        Despite the fact they’ve said that they haven’t released their final policy.

        Maybe they’ll announce FTTdp now instead, just to look like they’re improving the situation, but it still isn’t FTTP.

        Then after the election, they can just “revise” their policy again. It worked in 2013 to sucker in the electorate, why not just do it again?

        • Then after the election, they can just “revise” their policy again. It worked in 2013 to sucker in the electorate, why not just do it again?

          Yep, no doubt there will be more “Jobs and Growth”….in the largesse for Malcolms Telstra buddies…

        • Maybe they’ll announce FTTdp now instead, just to look like they’re improving the situation

          I still doubt that.

          • It doesn’t have to be a real announcement, just like their 25Mbit to all by the end of 2016.

            We all know the Coalition aren’t above lying to win power.

    • Now what is Reality going to cry and moan about now that Labor has released their policy?

      My guess is even though it is not a return to 93% FttP the copper fanboy knuckle dragger team will still whine about FttN being switched to FttP as it removes the precious copper they are so fond of. If Labor win and this new policy is put in place their copper sanctuary still erodes a bit.

    • R0ninX3ph,

      Wow, exactly like Scenario 4 from the SR

      Wow, no it’s not:

      1. Labors costings and funding requirements are not taken direct from the Coalition SR 13.

      2. Scenario 4 has FTTP 63% FTTN/dp/B 5% and HFC 32% – highly unlikely Labor will mirror those Coalition NBN Co calculated ratios exactly.

      • They can’t, because of the amount of contracts already locked in for FTTN. But good job with your inability to comprehend what you are reading.

        Spaz.

          • You’re right, you got me. Nobody has ever used a word for emphasis.

            People never use the word literally when they mean figuratively.

            You are correct, it isn’t exactly like it.

            It is the closest they can get to it. Lets call it Scenario 4 Neo. Thanks for the name Sony!

          • So it’s not exactly like Scenario 4 at all, you just made that up.

            Isn’t it Reality? How so?

  5. Shorten is incorrect – the worst part *is not* the speed and poor performance people have been stuck with. The worst part is the financial sabotage, which has cost the budget and tax payers $56bn, $30-40bn of which is already sunk costs due to infrastructure delivered or contracted. It is the financial sabotage that means we can’t just scrap the HFC and FTTN and build out FTTP from day one – as bad as the speed issues are, the fact that we can’t *fix it* is the travesty, and really what Labor should at least mention if not capitalise on. Polling shows the economy is the biggest issue for voters, with the NBN only ‘important’ for something like 8% of the electorate. Stop going softly softly on the economicseconomics, Labor – the financial sabotage was deliberate and calculated, the LNP and Turnbull in particular need to be held to account, and it’s a vote winner for you.

    • And why we need a royal commision into what the fuck actually happened with the NBN under Turnbull…

    • +1 labor need to highlight the wasted money and the fraudulent reports written by Turnbull’s mates!

    • “Polling shows the economy is the biggest issue” …Ah good old Statistics. If you look a closer look, the amount of people polled was around 1000. Unfortunately they dont tell us the breakdown like demographic or age groups.

      ‘important’ for something like 8%… Yeah who are those 8%. Lets take a (name) university where there as been multiple protests, information handed out, debates etc about the NBN. To a vast majority on that campus the issue is a lot higher than 8% and well within their 1000 people statistics.

      Point being, like we’ve seen so much throughout Turnbulls NBN policy, statistics can be manipulated to fit the shoe.

      • surveys and polls once they meet the 1k limit are considered indicative of the wider public. Anything over 2k is usually considered overkill as well so with political polls being a whole lot more frequent I’d say 1k isn’t too bad of an indicator.

    • UninvitedGuest,

      The worst part is the financial sabotage, which has cost the budget and tax payers $56bn,

      Incorrect it has not cost the taxpayers $56B.

      $30-40bn of which is already sunk costs due to infrastructure delivered or contracted

      Incorrect again.

      Polling shows the economy is the biggest issue for voters, with the NBN only ‘important’ for something like 8% of the electorate.

      Incorrect, it is 6%.

      You want to have another go?

  6. Best. Quotes. Evah.

    “FTTN sucks… if I could wave a wand, it’s the bit I’d erase.”
    – NBN Co Director Simon Hackett, 25 March 2015.

    “If I’m going to have any conflict with the board, it’s going to be around FTTN.”
    – Newly appointed NBN Co Director Michael Malone, 26 April 2016.

    All in all, it seems much more comprehensive than “Malcolms Technology Mess” thought bubble release…

  7. As predicted. Comically increasing peak funding by only $1b, whilst acknowledging a 1.5 year rollout delay (fabricating a MTM delay; actual showing on CP forecast for the first time). Claiming both FTTH and FTTN can be delivered in the same timeframe.

    $2m premises increases CPP by $500 PP. Hilarious misunderstanding of savings demonstrated with ‘skinny fibre’ (local fibre distribution only).

    IRR increases 1.2% (or a third) when actual revenue shows no such increase is available.

    Welcome back Conroy / Rudd days of delusion. The fanboys will squeal with delight

    • When even AT&T in the US has transitioned to FTTP for new urban projects, it is recommended and the right policy in spite of any cost. The trend towards FTTP for new projects is crystal clear.

      The NBN is a new project in practical rollout terms with the bulk of it in urban areas, so it should be compared with other new urban projects around the world. (Agreed, not Singapore or South Korea)

      • “…right policy in spite of any cost.”

        Again argue FTTH is worth it, then lets review realistic costs and timetables.

        • Richard, we can’t afford not to move to FTTP as fast as possible, but bean counters like you can’t comprehend the big picture.

        • Of course it’s worth it, that’s why the RotW is either using it, or switching to it. Hell, even the poster child for FttC (which malcolm likes to spin as FttN) BT is switching to FttP…

        • The lack of roi for 1!
          The lack of minimum speed!
          Increased maintenance and operation cost.
          Increased # of tech visits – some users need 4-5 visits to get it working.

          All of the above are reason enough to not bother with fttn

        • There is no argument re whether it is worth it.

          It simply is.

          As evidenced by commercial organisations the world over moving to FTTP.

          • “It simply is”, classic;-)

            You don’t think things can “simply be”? You know, things like “1+1”?

            Look forward to your argument about “1+1” isn’t “simple” ;o)

          • You don’t think things can “simply be”? You know, things like “1+1”?

            Your mistake was assuming someone like RR can understand logic Tinman. Teach him something even more basic first.

          • Your mistake was assuming someone like RR can understand logic Tinman. Teach him something even more basic first.

            Well, give a man 1 + 1, and he’ll add for a day. Teach a man to add 1 + 1, and you show him how to add for a lifetime.

          • Woolfe,

            As evidenced by commercial organisations the world over moving to FTTP.

            The (new) ALP NBN Co is not a commercial organisation, it will be reborn as a Disneyland like centre where ‘magic happens’, they will hold tours for children who will gasp in awe.

            :)

        • Richard says… costs and timetables…

          Thank you Richard, for once and for all, admitting that the dreaded B in cBa is of no consequence to you…

          “As I have always said” in relation to you blinkered bean counter and cultist views.

          Apology accepted.

          • That’s the real problem with these clowns, and why they don’t get it, they see no benefit in fast BB at all apart from “faster movie downloads”…

          • and Tinman, have you noticed that the Libs never ever mention the NBN in the same sentence as business vs the ALP who always tout the business benefits of a FTTP NBN!

            Just goes to show how out of touch the CFKD’s are!

          • DO because unlike the ALP they have some understanding of business. NBNCo still doesn’t have a business product in their 8th year.

          • “DO because unlike the ALP they have some understanding of business. NBNCo still doesn’t have a business product in their 8th year.”

            Funny… For the last 3 years I thought the Coalition were in control of NBN Co…..

            I guess it is the ALPs fault that for the past 3 years NBN Co hasn’t introduced a “business product”.

          • Richard, actually it shows the complete reverse!

            Considering you’ve never worked for an ISP in a business customer delivery role, I’m not surprised you have no bloody clue what you are talking about!!

          • DO because unlike the ALP they have some understanding of business.

            After looking at how the LPA have blown out spending over Labors years, and run revenue down to below Labor years, how they’ve doubled to cost of the NBN and pretty well doubled the timeframe…did you mean that comment as a joke?

      • AT&T is outstripping Goggle Fiber.
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2015/12/09/why-att-is-out-building-google-fiber/?postshare=8441465613931222&tid=ss_tw

        AT&T, among several other telcos, petitioned the FCC in 2012 to say goodbye to the outdated telephone system. The FCC’s “IP Transition” regulations has been implemented to remove the legacy telephone system and go 100% IP.

        At the last count about 40 telcos in the United States are deploying FTTP. It is not just limited to AT&T, Verizon, CenturyLink & Comcast

        The $350 billion U.S. National Broadband Plan is being implemented

        • “At the last count about 40 telcos in the United States are deploying FTTP.”

          People need to realise that with this kind of news, any doubt is gone forever. 40 different companies saw a business case. So you do not need a cost/benefit analysis, because it was done, 40 times, by them and those 40 CBAs were found to be favourable.

          Folks, things have changed. The Noambition Coalition didn’t see a business case. *Facepalm*

        • It is not news actually. The United States has had plans underway to remove the old telephone network since the $350 billion National Broadband Plan was released by the FCC in 2010. The FCC finalized the IP Transition legislation over a year ago. Major telcos petitioned the FCC in 2012 to get the show on the road. Multiple networks are costly to maintain.

          Right now there are around 70-80 ISPs who provide FTTP services

        • I make one little statement about a lie before an election. And you quote yourself with figures released by NBN Co under Malcolm Turnbull that somehow proves yourself right?

          No, the Coalition who lie without any second thought wouldn’t possibly have their cronies at NBN Co lie and make up figures to “prove” how good their plan is.

          Nah, not possible. Please piss off.

          • Richard just can’t let go of his flawed assumptions, and even fabricated numbers, from the LPA…

            I’m sure they are grateful they have such a faithful foot soldier like him.

          • You say fanboy as if it bothers me? What do you think it means? Because it doesn’t mean whatever you think it does.

          • Don’t worry R0
            Richard makes about as much sense when he claims the fttn was the best policy and that there where $B’s waiting to best invested. But then nothing happen from it. So either it wasn’t the best as claimed or there wasn’t $B’s ready the be invested or both.

          • One little statement;-)

            Then the typical eloquent fanboy finish.

            Let he who is without sin….etc…etc…etc ;o)

          • Lol so again Richard if labor gets into power the FTTN contracts they don’t cancel they can take credit for?

            But then you deny the reality of the best poilcy aka the tender that no one wanted to invest the $B you claimed was out there.

          • Thanks for the link Richard!!

            Before the last election, then-shadow communications minister Malcolm Turnbull said all premises would have access to the NBN by the end of 2016 at a cost of $29.5 billion.

            Yes, we remember it well…before it doubled in cost and timeframe ;o)

          • Yes, we remember it well…before it doubled in cost and timeframe ;o)

            Well we would if it did, but it hasn’t.

          • Well we would if it did, but it hasn’t.

            Hadn’t what? Doubled (actually tripled timewise) to everything Malcolm promised in 2013?

          • $29.5B doubled is $59B, where does that figure appear in MtM funding estimates?

            lol, your a dill ;o)

    • Well Richard FTTN at 193 days RFS still hasn’t deliver faster than FTTP at 166 days RFS

    • “increasing peak funding by only $1b”

      Which seems to be a conservative estimate judging by global standards

      “acknowledging a 1.5 year rollout delay”

      It will take that long just to clean the damn nodes up…

      “misunderstanding of savings demonstrated with ‘skinny fibre’ (local fibre distribution only)”

      Ummm…what do you think the node to premise is? BTW, they have also pointed out that the need for above ground FDHs will mostly disappear with the new skinny fibre design. The splitting can now be done within the pits and pipes.

      “IRR increases 1.2% (or a third) when actual revenue shows no such increase is available”

      That sounds about right…even the coalition’s numbers showed that the revenue from FTTP was significantly higher and faster to be realized.

      • 1.5yr delay alone will cost more than $1b.

        $500 PP more to extend fibre down every street and teams to enter every premises? Such an effort will take the same amount of time?

        Revenue actuals for the various are today known. Doesn’t show what you claim.

        Economic and financial delusion has always had a receptive market, leftoids prosper off them.

          • And your point is?

            Isn’t the objective to build the best infrastructure for Australia? Tell me your thoughts Alain!!

  8. Wow, so Labor does have the courage of its convictions. This is something with which people can be satisfied. 39% is a very good start.

    My hope is that they take full advantage of the FTTP cost and time savings that certainly have developed.

    I also think the bolstering and updating of HFC will turn out to be a good interim solution, despite the difficulty and cost. The large number of overseas network operator customers for the technology gives it weight, even though future upgrade costs will be higher.

  9. At least in my area, nothing has even started yet.
    I might still stand a chance of getting FTTP after all.

  10. “A Shorten Labor Government will cap the total funding for the NBN at $57 billion.

    Hey that’s one amazing coincidence, that just happens to be 1 billion more than the upper limit of the Coalition funding estimate of $46B-$56B.

    Be good to see the ‘Labor’ CPP on brownfields FTTP, and how it is calculated.

    Shorten and Clare said the new policy meant that Labor would complete the initial rollout of the NBN by June 2022, “the same time the Liberals’ second-rate NBN is likely to be complete”.

    So you have decided to add two years to the published Coalition estimate of 2020, the facts behind this? no facts we just need to make it the same as 2022, just putting ‘likely’ in front of it is enough, so easy to knock up NBN policy these days.

    What happened to FTTdp Labor, get too hard did it?

    While citing the recent multitude of leaked documents coming out of NBN Co that reveal issues with the MTM rollout, Clare hinted that his party’s yet-to-be-released election policy would favour fibre-to-the-distribution point technology.

    I know what we will do we will do pretend it’s still 2013 and go back to FTTP, that should keep the punters happy.

    Another comment.

    “When you look at 2016 and beyond, FTTdp makes perfect sense,” telco analyst Paul Budde said.

    “Anything that is already FTTN they obviously can’t change overnight – that will need to run its course – but where FTTN has not yet been implemented and where it’s possible, my guess is they will pursue some sort of FTTdp policy.”

    No they won’t. lol

    “If they got into power and went straight back to FTTP, there’d be a year or two of delay,” telco analyst Ian Martin of New Street Research said.

    No there won’t, Labor have a method of turning water into wine, there might be a year or two delay but you just add two years to the Coalition MtM finish date and Bingo! magic happens, issue solved.

    Aparently FTTN and FTTP rollout times are equal, (only in Australia) amazing, if only the infrastructure companies all over the world had the ALP’s secret methodology.

    http://www.itnews.com.au/news/labor-hints-at-fttdp-nbn-election-policy-417796

    • There is evidence to show that they are equal. 166 Days for RFS in FTTP. Best so far for FTTN being 193 days to RFS.

      • R0ninX3ph,

        There is evidence to show that they are equal. 166 Days for RFS in FTTP. Best so far for FTTN being 193 days to RFS

        Where?, you forgot to provide the link to the evidence, accidentally of course.

        • Troll
          3MLT-10 was 166 days (build contract to RFS date) for FTTP

          Please be my guest and find a faster fttn

          • What’s 3MLT-10 you are being deliberately evasive , did you help with the Labor NBN policy?

          • Well than I guest you won’t be finding a faster fttn then with that comment troll

          • Oh the Melton trial , better to use 3MLT-10 eh, it gives it more substance way beyond what actually happened.

            NBN Co comment:

            The work under way in Melton delivered no such conclusions. Further, the scope of the work being done in Melton has been overstated. The PowerPoint used as the basis of the article has not been endorsed by management, due to a number of shortfalls in the methodology and metrics.

            Importantly, NBN Co continues to identify efficiencies in our rollout processes across the country, and across all technologies. We have an obligation to the taxpayers who are footing the bill, and we know an efficient rollout is key to our company successfully reaching its target of 8 million customers connected by 2020.

            There fixed it for ya.

          • So troll comment invalid as there is no answer from you show an FTTN being faster than FTTP.

            So far the fastest FTTN is a month behind the Melton trial. The same trial that NBN tried to claim didn’t exist.

            There fixed it for you.

          • Yes, that’s the trial where they first denied it, and now say that “skinny fibre” is great and speeds things right up .

            They (and you) couldn’t lie straight in bed…

        • Other people have linked it to you previously, and you disappear only to reappear on other comments posting the same garbage. So… Yeah, I intentionally didn’t post it, because its the only way you will reappear, when you are able to continue spinning and twisting and turning.

          You’re a vile troll, back under your bridge.

          • He has an agenda, he only pops up to protect it. When have you ever seen Reality/Alain mount an actual argument that wasn’t c&p from a Murdoch site?

    • I know what we will do we wiil go back to FTTP, that should keep the punters happy.

      Good to see you agree for once ;o)

      No there won’t, Labor have a method of turning water into wine, there might be a year or two delay but you just add two years to the Coalition MtM finish date and Bingo! magic happens, issue solved.

      According to Crikey (and Bill Morrow), no, there won’t be a delay…

      https://www.crikey.com.au/2016/03/23/nbn-wont-be-caught-with-pants-down-if-labor-switches-back-to-fibre/

      Who said it’s just Australia?

      Chorus executive Kurt Rodgers said We are now into year five so we have a relatively smooth factory going, where we have time, cost and quality under control, as much as we can, and it is improving every year

      They switched from FttN to FttP, so I guess they’d know…

      Oh, yeah, and:

      https://twitter.com/DCoopes/status/735101684829933570

      • They switched from FttN to FttP, so I guess they’d know…

        Chorus could come here and roll out FTTP to 80% of the population of Melbourne, I guess they could finish it by 2022.

        BTW they have not switched to FTTP entirely and are still rolling out FTTN to rural NZ.

        • Chorus could come here and roll out FTTP to 80% of the population of Melbourne

          Could they?? Do you think the LPA should put a tender to them?? Maybe make it between them and Google Fiber, I know you’re a fan of them coming here too!!

        • “BTW they have not switched to FTTP entirely and are still rolling out FTTN to rural NZ.”

          What like Labor was rolling out Wireless and Satellite to rural Australia?

          It is just that Labor was rolling out a higher percentage of FTTP than Chorus. What is your point?

        • @R0ninX3ph

          He has a point?!! W.T.F.?! I’ve been on Delimiter for….god knows how long now, and you think Reality/Alain has a point???! Man, I need to sober up…I think I’m way drunk if Reality/Alain is making enough sense to respond to seriously :/

          • I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. I mean, I know he doesn’t actually have a point, but the only way to keep myself sane is to pretend like he is a normal guy who is just misguided, and not just a dick.

        • “BTW they have not switched to FTTP entirely and are still rolling out FTTN to rural NZ.”

          You’re a liar and you’ve been caught with your dick stuck in the mouth of a dead pig!

          They dropped FTTN in 2013. In rural areas VDSL is available only temporary while waiting for FTTP.

          Suck on it backwater boy!

    • @Alternate – “Be good to see the ‘Labor’ CPP on brownfields FTTP, and how it is calculated”

      It would be good to see the Coalitions calculations on just about anything…sorta like mystery meat so far.

      “What happened to FTTdp Labor, get too hard did it?”

      As I suspected, you haven’t read the policy…
      Page 19
      “Fibre-to-the-premises is a proven technology. An emerging technology – known as “fibre-to-the-distribution-point” or “fibre-to-the-driveway” – has the potential to deliver fast and reliable broadband while reducing customer connection costs. This is a new technology which
      has not yet been rolled out at scale. Labor will further explore the potential of this technology in government”

      “Aparently FTTN and FTTP rollout times are equal, (only in Australia)”

      Where we have billions in repairs and low grade copper to contend with…funny that.

      • “sorta like mystery meat so far.”

        I don’t think it qualifies as a meat product which is why since they’re selling meat pies they aint saying whats in it ;)

        “As I suspected, you haven’t read the policy…”

        An overated skill ;)

      • It would be good to see the Coalitions calculations on just about anything…sorta like mystery meat so far.

        We’ll, you know what they say…”If you saw how they make sausages, or the MTM, you wouldn’t have either!”

    • “Hey that’s one amazing coincidence, that just happens to be 1 billion more than the upper limit of the Coalition funding estimate of $46B-$56B.”

      Which they specifically Mention in the announcement.

      “So you have decided to add two years to the published Coalition estimate of 2020, the facts behind this? no facts we just need to make it the same as 2022, just putting ‘likely’ in front of it is enough, so easy to knock up NBN policy these days.”
      Well, you know they have to account for the lost years that the coalition lost, implementing FTTN by 2016… Oh wait… Sorry, Coalition lost, NOT implementing FTTN by 2016.

      “What happened to FTTdp Labor, get too hard did it?”
      Er FTTdp is not as good as FTTP.

      “I know what we will do we will do pretend it’s still 2013 and go back to FTTP, that should keep the punters happy.”
      Makes me happy.

      “Another comment.
      *SNIP FTTDP making sense quote from Paul Budde etc*
      No they won’t. lol”
      FTTP, is better than FTTdp. Why go with a lesser solution, if the better solution is available?

      “No there won’t, Labor have a method of turning water into wine, there might be a year or two delay but you just add two years to the Coalition MtM finish date and Bingo! magic happens, issue solved.”
      Why? The FTTP plan was already in place, they are simply reverting to it instead of using FTTN. That analysis sounded like a bunch of hokem to me.

      “Aparently FTTN and FTTP rollout times are equal, (only in Australia) amazing, if only the infrastructure companies all over the world had the ALP’s secret methodology.”
      Apparently the FTTN was going to be rolled out to all of us by 2016, if only the infrastructure companies all over the world had the Coalition’s secret methodology

      Disingenuous as usual Reality.

      • Which they specifically Mention in the announcement.

        Personally, I think the ALP should have pulled a “Coalition” and said it’d be $2b cheaper, then “revised” it up after the election!

    • Lol the stroll strikes again

      “Be good to see the ‘Labor’ CPP on brownfields FTTP, and how it is calculated.”
      Well let’s see we didn’t see the CPP for HFC and fttn until the CP16

      “So you have decided to add two years to the published Coalition estimate of 2020, the facts behind this? no facts we just need to make it the same as 2022, just putting ‘likely’ in front of it is enough, so easy to knock up NBN policy these days.”
      Well the coalition claim labor FTTP was going to cost $90B. But there own figures has shown otherwise

      “I know what we will do we will do pretend it’s still 2013 and go back to FTTP, that should keep the punters happy.”
      Yes would have cost less than the mess now.

      “What happened to FTTdp Labor, get too hard did it?”
      No they will have infrastructure Australia in to it to see if it’s viable as it has been rolled out to scale yet.

      “Apparently FTTN and FTTP rollout times are equal, (only in Australia) amazing, if only the infrastructure companies all over the world had the ALP’s secret methodology.”
      Well fttn is slower fastest fttn so far is 193 days fastest FTTP is 166 days

    • @ alain

      “A Shorten Labor Government will cap the total funding for the NBN at $57 billion.

      Hey that’s one amazing coincidence, that just happens to be 1 billion more than the upper limit of the Coalition funding estimate of $46B-$56B.

      Hey that’s amazing only $1B more and we get a vastly superior network to the $29.B promised to all by 2016…

      ——–

      Shorten and Clare said the new policy meant that Labor would complete the initial rollout of the NBN by June 2022, “the same time the Liberals’ second-rate NBN is likely to be complete”.

      So you have decided to add two years to the published Coalition estimate of 2020, the facts behind this? no facts we just need to make it the same as 2022, just putting ‘likely’ in front of it is enough, so easy to knock up NBN policy these days.

      A. LIKELY (see what I did there)?
      Humorously however, the 2022 “likely (see what I did there)” claim is closer to the last MTM completion estimation of 2020 than their own initial 2016 estimation was… LOL

      ——–

      While citing the recent multitude of leaked documents coming out of NBN Co that reveal issues with the MTM rollout, Clare hinted that his party’s yet-to-be-released election policy would favour fibre-to-the-distribution point technology.

      What happened to FTTdp Labor, get too hard did it?

      A. “HINTED” (see what I did there, too)?

      ——–

      I know what we will do we will do pretend it’s still 2013 and go back to FTTP, that should keep the punters happy.

      I know what we will do, we will pretend it’s still 1950, just because …

      ——–

      “If they got into power and went straight back to FTTP, there’d be a year or two of delay,” telco analyst Ian Martin of New Street Research said.

      No there won’t, Labor have a method of turning water into wine, there might be a year or two delay but you just add two years to the Coalition MtM finish date and Bingo! magic happens, issue solved.

      They could just keep using the current MTM plan of turning not just water, but everything to shit?

      ——–

      “When you look at 2016 and beyond, FTTdp makes perfect sense,” telco analyst Paul Budde said “Anything that is already FTTN they obviously can’t change overnight – that will need to run its course – but where FTTN has not yet been implemented and where it’s possible, my guess is they will pursue some sort of FTTdp policy.”

      No they won’t. lol

      I’d suggest all they need to do, to the currently in place $29.5B – whoops $70B according to the previous Treasurer – for all by 2016 – whoops 2020 – LIKELY (see what I did there) in 2022 MTM plan, which is obviously a complete fuck up, is the complete opposite, simple…

      ——-

      Apparently FTTN and FTTP rollout times are equal, (only in Australia) amazing, if only the infrastructure companies all over the world had the ALP’s secret methodology.

      http://www.itnews.com.au/news/labor-hints-at-fttdp-nbn-election-policy-417796

      A HINTS (see what I did there yet again)?

      https://delimiter.com.au/2016/03/09/nz-brings-fttp-costs-fttn-levels/
      Err, but only in NZ err, but NZ

      https://delimiter.com.au/2016/03/03/new-nbn-leaks-show-fttp-cost-rapidly-approaching-fttn/

      Not to mention VALUE
      https://delimiter.com.au/2016/01/04/detailed-analysis-of-nbn-cos-finances-shows-fttp-better-value-than-fttn/

      Apology accepted/You’re welcome

      • Humorously however, the 2022 “likely (see what I did there)” claim is closer to the last MTM completion estimation of 2020 than their own initial 2016 estimation was… LOL

        I think he’s complaining that they didn’t say “up to” 2022….you know how much he loves “up to”!

        • + 1.

          He also likes to use words such as “might” … in relation to the Coalition’s own 2010 election/broadband conclusion/postmortem, to argue against the Coalition’s own document, about the Coalition and the Coalition not gaining government… which demonstrates he’s more pro-Coalition than the Coalition.

          Let’s see if he can now say Coalition more times than I just said Coalition and control himself from a coalition of hand and well, you know ;)

  11. This is all fixed then is it Jason?

    Shadow Communications Minister Jason Clare has admitted the national broadband network’s rollout was “too slow” under Labor…

    http://www.afr.com/news/politics/national/coalition-should-have-improved-labors-nbn-clare-20140609-iwo59

    Amazing, you have not even won Government and started new negotiations with contractors for a ‘Back to 2013 FTTP’ build with a new NBN Co structure and all yet to be approved by Infrastructure Australia.

    New slogan for a Labor NBN:

    “Magic happens, trust us (again)!”

  12. I was in a rental for 10 weeks last year which had NBN – (Aspley/Brisbane)

    I bought the 100/40 plan.

    The *very* best I got was 30/25.

    Most of the time it was only *slightly* better then a good Adsl connection.

    So it’s just a big ‘Whoopty-Do’ and blowing raspberries to the whole NBN from me. What a huge disappointment.

      • That area is very likely FTTP, but which RSP is the main point.

        If someone like Dodo or TPG, why are people shocked when their service is terrible? You pay pennies, you get pennies worth of quality.

    • “So it’s just a big ‘Whoopty-Do’ and blowing raspberries to the whole NBN from me. What a huge disappointment.”
      Same thing here for their NBN so-called 25/5 & 50/20 Fixed Wireless components which have now deteriorated to where they struggle to match ADSL1 performance at peak times from any of the providers currently available in our area South of Taree.
      Guess us rural folk will have to remain content on a ‘Superfast’ ‘Up To” 12Mb/s service at best & forget about evenings & weekends except after midnight.
      An email response I received this morning from a neighbouring property just about sums the situation here up nicely:
      “You’re not on your own, Grump, everyone in business in Taree is ready to jump on anyone to do with the NBN set up.
      So much business is being lost because of it.
      But they will still vote the bastard in, won’t they.
      Everywhere I go where there are problems with the NBN. I tell them you can thank Mr Turnbull for that.
      Some of them look at me as if they don’t what I am talking about. That gets me. Why don’t people know these things?”

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