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  • News, Telecommunications - Written by on Friday, November 22, 2013 12:48 - 213 Comments

    ‘No apology, no explanation’: Residents want FTTP back, says Labor

    jason-clare

    news The Opposition today claimed it was being inundated by “countless” complaints by Australians alarmed after the new Coalition Government ‘wiped them off the NBN rollout map’ with “no apology and no real explanation”.

    In late October, NBN Co radically altered its network rollout map. Many areas around Australia which had been marked to receive NBN infrastructure over the next several years had their areas removed from the map.

    The changes took place because NBN Co changed its metrics. Previously, NBN Co had used a metric which referred to the fact that initial work on designing the NBN rollout in certain areas had commenced. This included, in many cases, work on paper that took place in office environments, despite the fact that no actual construction work in the field had actually started. However, the Coalition changed this measurement and is now only measuring areas where construction crews in streets have been instructed to actually start deploying infrastructure, as well as areas where services are available.

    “The maps will be updated when further areas enter the building stage and the shape of the rollout becomes clearer following the completion of the Strategic Review into the NBN,” said NBN Co in October, reflecting the fact that much of the future of the NBN rollout is currently up in the air, pending the outcome of that review.

    However, in a statement released today, Shadow Minister for Communications Jason Clare, Member for Cunningham Sharon Bird and Member for Throsby Stephen Jones said they had been fielding constant complaints from Australians on the issue. The trio today met with residents in Horsley in Wollongong to discuss the issue.
     
    “Countless residents have been contacting Sharon and myself over the past month concerned about the future of the NBN here in the region”, said Jones. “And they have every right to be concerned. One day they’re seeing NBN trucks in their streets. The next day they’re gone.”
     
    “There was no warning. No apology and no real explanation from the Government and what’s going to happen next.”
     
    Bird added: “Invisibility is not transparency. Malcolm Turnbull has a responsibility to explain to local residents, who had been promised the NBN, when they will be connected and what they will get. Malcolm Turnbull doesn’t understand the regional infrastructure issues we have here like overcrowded exchanges, it’s a massive burden.”

    Clare accused Turnbull of creating “two classes of people” — “those that will have fibre all the way to their homes and those that will not”.
     
    The Shadow Communications Minister said the new Coalition Government’s decision to “rip 29,000 Illawarra homes and businesses off the NBN rollout map” had also resulted in as many as 40 NBN construction workers losing their jobs. This is despite assurances from Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull that he would “ensure the NBN’s current contractors do not have to lay off staff.”
     
    “Malcolm Turnbull says one thing and does another. He pledged to protect these exact jobs that have been lost”, said Clare. “Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull have pulled the plug on homes and businesses right across the Illawarra that were expecting to receive fibre to the home. This has meant local NBN workers have lost their jobs and local residents have been left in limbo.”

    Australians have continually signalled over the past several years that they prefer Labor’s FTTP-based NBN policy over the Coalition’s less ambition vision, which predominantly uses a Fibre to the Node-based rollout style.

    Following the Federal Election, evidence has grown of a groundswell of popular opinion supporting Labor’s FTTP-based NBN model. In early September, an online petition on the issue garnered more than 260,000 signatures. The petition in general was rejected by Turnbull, but it continues to be cited by commentators as a key indicator of the popularity of Labor’s NBN vision.

    Fact-checking website PolitiFact Australia has previously flatly rejected a claim by the Australian Labor Party that the Coalition has “cut” some 500,000 houses from the National Broadband Network project, finding that the Coalition had only changed the metrics by which the rollout was measured, not the rollout itself.

    opinion/analysis
    I’m on record as backing the Coalition’s changes to NBN Co’s maps, which had grown highly inaccurate over time. However, there’s also an underlying truth here, which Clare has successfully pinpointed. By and large, Australians simply do not want the Coalition’s version of the NBN — they want Labor’s version — and the Coalition’s version will indeed create a situation where residents and businesses in the very same district will have radically different styles of broadband available to them, even if they’re only a street apart.

    The Coalition is not going to be able to weather this one. These complaints are going to keep coming with respect to its reformed NBN vision. The only way to stop them is to deploy FTTN as fast as possible, in an effort to convince people it’s a decent broadband option — or to switch back to Labor’s FTTP policy, which Tony Abbott’s Cabinet will likely never do.

    Image credit: Australian Customs and Border Protection Service

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    213 Comments

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    1. Soth
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 12:53 pm | Permalink |

      But.. but transparency.

      • Daniel
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 4:20 pm | Permalink |

        Transparency? Switkowski is there now, FTTP is dead.

        • Lachlan
          Posted 22/11/2013 at 4:34 pm | Permalink |

          Not for the 155k premises that will be announced by February, according to press releases. There is still massive opaqueness for those areas, and senate estimates didn’t question that at all. People will be selling houses without knowing that fibre will be available, and could be ripped off by that.

          • fttp
            Posted 22/11/2013 at 6:55 pm | Permalink |

            Switkowski is an idiot. He bases his usage needs off single user current average streaming requirement of what is available in Australia (ie. Excluding Netflix, Hulu). In 5 years multiple household users will be connecting multiple devices simultaneously to the single connection, easily maxing out a 25Mbs connection. The lack of foresight by this supposed expert is astounding to the point he is either fantastically incompetent or his agenda is to ensure Rupert Murdoch maintains a foxtel monopoly.

            • omaca
              Posted 23/11/2013 at 8:13 am | Permalink |

              I think we all know it’s the latter.

              • Fibroid
                Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:59 am | Permalink |

                The defining of transparency is not simplistically if it is not a same as Labor FTTP rollout result from the Coalition reviews it is therefore not transparent.

                • Alex
                  Posted 23/11/2013 at 11:59 am | Permalink |

                  Transparency is transparency… we needed to know what was going on in relation to the previous NBN and we need to know the same from the current plan.

                  Periodic clear reporting and openness is required, it’s not nuclear physics (pun intended)…

                  There isn’t one set of rules for one and another for the other (*sigh*), no matter how hard you pushed for over the top transparency of the former and require minimal (or no) transparency in relation to the current plan…

            • GlenBendigo
              Posted 23/11/2013 at 4:27 pm | Permalink |

              I agree fttp, my sister has 2 kids, on a 16 mbs dl (max) bigpond adsl2+, with one desktop, 2 laptops and xbox all connected one way or another. Note: not all on the net at the same time, but when they are, its more or less so laggy its impossible. add an android tablet via wireless and you cant even open a browser page.

              • haha yeah
                Posted 23/11/2013 at 6:27 pm | Permalink |

                Thanks for sharing Glenn. Sounds like your sis is a perfect candidate for Fibre-on-Demand. The way it works is a telco like Optus will come to your place, estimate the cost of provisioning fibre and provide you a quote. Then you get to have a moment to think whether the “benefits” to your family of accessing fibre burst speeds for entertainment purposes exceeds the cost of installing fibre. That’s the magic of the market at work! You enjoy the benefits — you bear the costs! And the poor taxpayer is left only having to shoulder more important social outlays such as health and hospitals. God Bless Malcolm and Tony.

                • Alex
                  Posted 23/11/2013 at 10:51 pm | Permalink |

                  With your obvious flame-bait aside…

                  Where does $30B government monies for FttN fit into your equation?

                  Why is it ok for a government to roll out FttN and not FttP? Especially at similar government spends.

                  Why did you oppose FttN 2007?

                • Observer
                  Posted 23/11/2013 at 11:14 pm | Permalink |

                  “God Bless Malcolm and Tony”

                  We already had a polite troll. Now we have a Christian one. How can we be so lucky?

                  • Arran
                    Posted 25/11/2013 at 8:04 pm | Permalink |

                    They prove that god doesn’t exist :P

                • Chas
                  Posted 24/11/2013 at 8:33 am | Permalink |

                  “That’s the magic of the market at work! You enjoy the benefits — you bear the costs! And the poor taxpayer is left only having to shoulder more important social outlays such as health and hospitals”

                  Obviously this was written by someone who has no clue…
                  The NBN is an investment that makes a financial return over time, a hospital is an expense which doesn’t.
                  Comparing the two is just an obvious lack of understanding on the fundamentals.

                  BTW…not investing in the NBN would generate exactly 0$ for hospitals or any other expense. In fact, if they stopped the NBN right now, the money already invested would become an expense and we would have to close hospitals to cover it.

                • emm dawg
                  Posted 25/11/2013 at 6:59 pm | Permalink |

                  Malcolm has to install over 80 FTTN cabinets __per_day__ to meet his 2016 target. And, connect over 20,000 homes __per_day__.

                  let that sink in for a bit

        • Rohan Gilchrist
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 1:01 pm | Permalink |

          Ding ding ding ding… We have a winner!

          • haha yeah
            Posted 23/11/2013 at 4:07 pm | Permalink |

            Two winners actually: the average Australian household that doesn’t require 1Gbps connections for their domestic purposes (99% are not working from home as server admins) and won’t be slugged with ever rising wholesale charges (see first page of Hackett’s Commsday slides); and the Aussie taxpayer that won’t be forced to subsidise the NBN build when Labor’s NBN financial model inevitably falls apart.

            • Observer
              Posted 23/11/2013 at 11:18 pm | Permalink |

              “the Aussie taxpayer that won’t be forced to subsidise the NBN build when Labor’s NBN financial model inevitably falls apart.”

              But I thought the Coalition model was the go now. Or maybe grammar or logical thinking just aren’t your forte.

              • Alex
                Posted 24/11/2013 at 8:44 am | Permalink |

                Notice too Observer, prior to the Coalition’s policy announcement last April (iirc), the catch-cry was, “households don’t need 100Mbps.”

                But now that the Coalition have (in theory anyway) a 100Mbps claim within their future policy, the faithful have had to up their propaganda accordingly to 1 Gbps.

                *rolls eyes*

                BTW – Ziggy must have forgotten…lol

                • GongGav
                  Posted 25/11/2013 at 9:21 am | Permalink |

                  I’m wondering where the comments are about haha yeah’s comment being conjecture…

            • adam
              Posted 26/11/2013 at 2:08 pm | Permalink |

              The Labor plan was to fund and establish the NBN co, then run it at a profit, and sell it to the private sector. Thus it was an investment which will break even to $0 in about 2020.

              The Liberal plan is to lock us in to old technology, defer the debate to go the next level for another day, and to spend about $30 billion of tax payers money outright. Thus the Liberal policy is vastly more expensive to the tax payer as well as vastly inferior.

              But the election has been and gone. Now we can only lobby the current government and apply as much pressure as we can.

              Its also worth noting that I am willing to take on user pays fibre. I do have the need and see the benifit of 100mbit+ at home. Thus far, I have not seen that it is actually available. We should be pressuring the government to make the details of the user pays option known.

              I can not see that pulling individual fibre runs through the trenches on an as required basis makes any financial sense. If user pays is not going to be available at all they should tell us now as that adds weight to the FTTP option.

              • Sam
                Posted 26/11/2013 at 3:13 pm | Permalink |

                Yes I have failed to get any information about the user pays option. When you actually consider it…… it doesn’t actually seem to make any sense. Let’s say you wanted to use existing ductwork. This ductwork may be cracked/damaged/made of asbestos/full of water etc. It may not have a suitable bend radius for fibre. You would also be lumping your shiny new fibre in among the old copper bundles and it would be subjected to damage from the hit-and-run maintenance crews who service the copper network. Of course if you were doing that then you may as well run a fibre bundle down the street from the node cabinet while you were at it. So that really means installing the NBN (and doing the remediation work) on a street as soon as you have one paying punter who requests it. Without that fibre bundle going down the street then I can only see one other option that makes any sense. That would be a star network. You would drill from the node cabinet to the premises and pull through 25mm conduit and run a fibre through that. Of course that means a hell of a lot of drilling which would be a phenomenal waste of money. If the node cabinet was 100m from your house it would be a very expensive exercise. It would also seriously run the risk of creating a mess of conduit underground and raising the risk of drilling through existing underground assets. As I said…..I have absolutely no idea how this user pays option would work in practice and I doubt that it would be a serious option unless the node cabinet is sited on your front verge. When Telstra have to drill under a street (just from one side to the other) they seem to charge about $15k. I couldn’t see drilling 100m being less than that so I am wondering if the drilling would be subsidized by the taxpayer and offered at a fixed price (say $5000) or would the user pay the full $15000. Does anyone have any insights into this?

    2. 1a2a3a
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 1:10 pm | Permalink |

      FTTN is a disaster waiting to happen, I dare say more complaints (and protest, from myself at least) will come about when/if they roll out that abomination.

      • haha yeah
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 3:00 pm | Permalink |

        Labor’s FTTP was a disaster that already happened and achieved practically nothing in six years.

        • Jesse
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 8:54 pm | Permalink |

          I’d prefer an all-FTTP model, a bold, grand and ubiquitous vision with questionable execution by the previous government, rather than the current government’s proposed FTTP/FTTN mix, a questionable vision (aka stop-gap solution) that would require a Herculean effort to execute on time in 2019 (as claimed many times by Turnbull).

        • Alex
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:27 pm | Permalink |

          Achieved practically nothing…? ROFL…answered in full.

          Please refer to Delimiter comments policy, as your demonstrably false info is forever in breach, thank you.

    3. GongGav
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 1:12 pm | Permalink |

      I’m on record as being against the new maps. Not because I think the old ones were accurate, but because I think the new ones are incomplete.

      Sorry Renai, but only showing the last month of a 13 to 16 month process is not better, is not transparency, and results in nothing but confusion. Keep the existing maps. If they are truly representing the key part of construction where the fibre is being pulled through (and I have no reason to think they dont), then great. But include other aspects of the rollout.

      All it would take would be a different color showing the planning stage (that part that you refer to as being done in an office) and another color showing the remediation stage, and it would satisfy most people. Let them know how far along they are, so they can at least know SOMETHING is happening.

      Not everyone will be happy, there will always be some that complain that the 3 year portion is missing, or that a boundary is 2 meters away from where it should be, or some other thing, but include that other information so people can better gauge where they are at.

      My area was scheduled to be RFS this month. I expect that was a little premature, but it should still mean that I’m not far off. As in 2 to 3 months, with that planning stage, and the remediation stage done. But with not being on the map, as far as I know I’ll never get it. I know that I am, but have no idea when, and when Silcar is in my street (as per 8:30 this morning), NBN Co should be able to advise that its close yet theres nothing.

      How is that better?

      • RocK_M
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 1:35 pm | Permalink |

        +1

        Could not have said it better myself. I’ve also posted enough times to show how slightly annoyed I’ve been w/ the “improvements” of the map.

      • Ben
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 1:43 pm | Permalink |

        @GongGav

        1000x this. We know less than we used to, there’s no reason you can’t make a map more accurate and at the same time keep the same amount of information. However, so far, all the LNP have done is be even less transparent and attempt to hide/censor anything they feel they can get away with.

      • Brad Allen
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 2:47 pm | Permalink |

        +1

        I too am in an area where the NBN was scheduled to be available for retail service next month – now we have been completely wiped off the map. This is despite the fact that I have seen Silcar in the area doing work in the pits.

        I assume that it is still coming, but I’m not suprised people are upset when the website currently states “The NBN rollout has not started in your area”.

      • Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:08 am | Permalink |

        Agree totally with this. Remove the timeline expectations but display the different stages.

        What they’re showing now is pointless. They’re showing “active” and “almost active”. No plans, no design-work commenced – nothing else. That’s transparency?

      • PeterA
        Posted 25/11/2013 at 4:43 pm | Permalink |

        +1
        Vision Stream sighted in my area as of last Friday. (and seen regularly leading up to the election).

        Removed from the map when Malcolm got in.

        What state am I in? How am I “more informed” now than I was before?
        Before I knew “NBN is coming”, now what do I know?

        I am less informed now than before.

        • grump3
          Posted 25/11/2013 at 5:08 pm | Permalink |

          Same thing in my nearest city. Checking Turnbull’s gutted map for information is a total waste of time.
          Where the whole CBD was previously included, now it’s just two sections of ‘Construction Commenced” areas. Have the rest been slated for FTTN?
          All nearby wireless areas now gone.

    4. Rob
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 1:21 pm | Permalink |

      Unfortunately it’s too late to be complaining, the Libs already won the election and a mandate to change from FTTP to FTTN. Don’t like it? get in your time machine, go back 6 months and start convincing your family, friends and colleagues to vote Labor.

      • Soth
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 1:27 pm | Permalink |

        Or get the winning lotto numbers for the next 6 months of lotto and buy your own fibre!
        Aww yeah!

        • haha yeah
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 4:24 pm | Permalink |

          So, to follow through with your logic, if Labor managed to retain Government and continued its “FTTH for everybody” policy, taxpayers would effectively be funding “lottery wins for everyone!” Once again, the superdupercallifragilistic socialist self-fuelling, self-lubricating money-printing machine in action! (Except in reality, the only thing getting truly lubricated is the poor taxpayer’s waste chute.)

          • Alex
            Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:34 pm | Permalink |

            Firstly it’s not taxpayer money… “demonstrably false and invalid comment”… This has been addressed here many times.

            Secondly the government funding (note government funding not taxpayer funding) of FttN is almost as much as FttP – $29.5B vs $30.4B (iirc) and also iirc, using the same funding methods…
            So again you political cheerleaders want to invent separate rules… “demonstrably false again and invalid comment again”

            Please refer to the Delimiter comments policy, thank you

            • Fibroid
              Posted 26/11/2013 at 4:06 pm | Permalink |

              @Alex

              ‘Firstly it’s not taxpayer money… “demonstrably false and invalid comment”… This has been addressed here many times.’

              Careful of those own goals.

              “Undoubtedly, there will still be many challenges ahead, but the addition of fibre to the node to NBN Co’s suite of technology solutions will allow the NBN to be built more quickly and at less cost to the taxpayer,” he said.”

              http://www.zdnet.com/au/quigley-departs-nbn-co-farewells-staff-7000021503/

              … in case you blinked.

              “and at less cost to the taxpayer,” he said.”

              Right into the centre of net.

              • Alex
                Posted 26/11/2013 at 6:22 pm | Permalink |

                Unable to refute point one… thought not…

                Although nice work with Quigs dumbing it down to the “taxpayer” for everyone… and especially for, on this one occasion, using Quigs (the guy who you refuted every other word of) now claiming him the messiah…lol…

                For example, Quigs also said the NBN would be on time and on budget, wanna agree and quote those too…? No thought not.

                And yes, finally you are starting to comprehend there is a $900m saving for the taxpayer [sic]. $30.4B for FttP vs. $29.5B for FttN… Congratulations, it’s only taken months and literally hundreds of posts from dozens of posters, for you to finally agree… well done :)

                Gee but when you consider FttP was going to cover much more ground and supply many more Aussies with a superior product than FttN, it doesn’t look like such a good deal after all, does it?

                In fact it’s idiotic in comparison…

          • John
            Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:34 pm | Permalink |

            “So, to follow through with your logic, if Labor managed to retain Government and continued its “FTTH for everybody” policy, taxpayers would effectively be funding “lottery wins for everyone!” ”

            The only problem with your logic is that your seem to think taxpayers will be paying for the fibre, while the truth is THE USERS OF THE NETWORK WILL BE PAYING FOR THE NETWORK.

            Therefore, you, who will only need a 1.5mbit connection will only pay for you share. While me, who can and will use 100/40mbit will pay my for my share.

            Are you really that diluted? Or do you enjoy spreading FUD?

            • Northern Blue
              Posted 24/11/2013 at 5:59 am | Permalink |

              “THE USERS OF THE NETWORK WILL BE PAYING FOR THE NETWORK.”

              That Lazard report for PM Gilliard that has been leaked suggests that that is not the case. At best they’ll end up $31Billion behind with the Labor scheme with no hope of recovery. Given past monopoly practices in Australia (especially government owned ones) it is going to be pretty easy to work out who future governments will be targetting to recoup all that money back.

              • Alex
                Posted 24/11/2013 at 8:55 am | Permalink |

                Ah yes…

                http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/18/business_advisor_nbn_secret_report/

                • Observer
                  Posted 24/11/2013 at 9:44 am | Permalink |

                  Another genuine debater with damming evidence. You have to love them.Their obsession with private ownership does strange things to them. Another example was Haha yeah (I always have problem typing this silly name) suggesting that Labor governments nationalise everything that moves. The interesting part about Coalition tragics is that their views of socialism and communism are not only inaccurate, they are vastly distorted.

                  • Alex
                    Posted 24/11/2013 at 10:14 am | Permalink |

                    Indeed…

                    What I find most humorous is how they (not necessarily our current correspondent) can come here with two sets of rules…

                    They say the NBN would have failed because of x, y, z. But either through ideological obedience or stupidity, they bluntly refuse to apply the same rules/logic to FttN.

                    They refuse to acknowledge that using their very own logic, x, y, and z would therefore impact upon their pet FttN (yes the same FttN/fraudband they themselves vehemently opposed in 2007 but now laud *rolls eyes*) just as much if not more, than it would the previous FttP NBN…

                    • Fibroid
                      Posted 24/11/2013 at 10:56 am | Permalink |

                      Just when you thought the logic couldn’t be anymore tortured than it is we have a new method, it’s called conjecture by code.

                      • Alex
                        Posted 24/11/2013 at 12:15 pm | Permalink |

                        Just when you thought the logic couldn’t be anymore tortured…

                        … along comes Fibroid.

                        So, tell us that 1, 2 and 3 reasons for FttP to fail according to the linked report, wouldn’t also pertani to FttN…

                        Feel free to lie through your teeth (as usual) if that helps, because you’ll need to. Or of course you could use Fibroid/cyclops logic :)

                    • Observer
                      Posted 24/11/2013 at 11:26 am | Permalink |

                      You can tell, can’t you that Fibroid has a lot of affection for the term “conjecture”. This is like the joker in the pack. When you have no real answer, you evoke conjecture.

      • GongGav
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 1:32 pm | Permalink |

        If you’re responding to me, dont bother. If the Liberals are true to their word, the rollouts that were partway through (whether thats planning, remediation, or pullthrough) will be completed. Which means I should have FttH sooner rather than later despite not being on the map right now.

        Issue here is with the map, not the election result. It’s not a fair representation of the state of affairs, simply because its only including the very last step of a long process. You dont start saying you’re building a house only after the electricity is connected, you say you’re building a house when you sign a contract with a builder.

        Any project like this has stages, and the map needs to reflect each of those stages or its less useful than the one color fits all approach they replaced. At the moment, nobody knows whats going on, so how is that more transparent than the previous map advising SOMETHING has started?

      • RocK_M
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 1:39 pm | Permalink |

        As gong has said this is less about the fact people will now be on FTTN but more about the perception of people suddenly being dropped from the FTTP roll out even though there was assurances by the then Opposition that “we will honor contracts and nothing will change w/ existing plans”.

      • Bpat
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 1:46 pm | Permalink |

        I have been vocal for the better part of two years. Too bad it didn’t help. I had a ‘discussion’ with some friends who couldn’t even begin to speculate that there was the merest possibility that the liberals have a significantly worse NBN policy.

      • Margaret McMillan
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 4:22 pm | Permalink |

        The Coalition did not win a mandate to change from FTTP to FTTN. An election is so that people can choose the government they think will do the best job. Whichever side is in opposition has a duty to represent the people who voted for them – which means that Labor and the Greens must strenuously oppose policies which they opposed before the election, or conversely continue to support policies which they went to the electorate with.

        • haha yeah
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 4:13 pm | Permalink |

          Yup. I agree. The way it works is the political party that wins Government does it damn most to implement the policies it believes is best for Australia. And the party in Opposition continues to oppose policies that don’t fit into its socialist “nationalise everything that moves” political ideology.

          • Chas
            Posted 24/11/2013 at 7:28 am | Permalink |

            “The way it works is the political party that wins Government does it damn most to implement the policies it believes is best for Australia.”

            Sadly that is not what is happening…the current party in Government is attempting to implement whatever it can to keep them in power and take care of their mates, and to hell with the rest of Australia.

            • Fibroid
              Posted 24/11/2013 at 10:59 am | Permalink |

              Makes you wonder why the ‘rest of Australia’ voted them in just over two months ago to implement their pre election policies.

              • Alex
                Posted 24/11/2013 at 4:23 pm | Permalink |

                “Makes you wonder…?”

                What are you doubting your subservience and how you voted already… LOL?

              • Chas
                Posted 24/11/2013 at 5:04 pm | Permalink |

                “Makes you wonder why the ‘rest of Australia’ voted them in just over two months ago to implement their pre election policies”

                I know of no Liberal voter (and I am good friends with dozens) who voted for the Libs because of their policies…the only reason they won was that they ran a very effective mud-slinging campaign and were able to strike fear in the hearts of so many people.
                Certainly the idea that they have a mandate on their policies is laughable…

                • Fibroid
                  Posted 24/11/2013 at 7:19 pm | Permalink |

                  @Chas

                  ‘Certainly the idea that they have a mandate on their policies is laughable…’

                  But Labor had a mandate in 2010 for their NBN policy apparently, even though it was a hung Parliament outcome, but the Coalition who won the election outright with a healthy Lower House seat majority doesn’t have a mandate.

                  The selective and obviously biased use of what constitutes a ‘mandate’ is what is laughable.

                  • Alex
                    Posted 24/11/2013 at 8:02 pm | Permalink |

                    You were the one who said the last mob, “didn’t have a mandate back when” so which is it…?

                    The selective and obviously biased use of what constitutes a ‘mandate’ is what is and what was laughable.indeed.

                  • Chas
                    Posted 25/11/2013 at 7:38 am | Permalink |

                    @Fibroid

                    “But Labor had a mandate in 2010 for their NBN policy apparently, even though it was a hung Parliament outcome, but the Coalition who won the election outright with a healthy Lower House seat majority doesn’t have a mandate”

                    I see that you just don’t know what a mandate is….
                    Just because a party gets into office with a healthy majority doesn’t mean that EVERY POLICY is a mandate.
                    The Coalition do have a mandate to reduce the deficit, and unfortunately to stop the boats and repeal the Carbon Tax.
                    The NBN was NOT a popular subject for them, I have seen no polling whatsoever to show that anybody voted for them because of their NBN policy (with the possible exception of Alan Jones).

                    On the other hand, the NBN WAS a mandate for Labor as it was one of their most popular platforms.

                    Do you get it now???

                    • Fibroid
                      Posted 25/11/2013 at 7:56 am | Permalink |

                      What polling was taken that proves the Coalition NBN policy was not a factor in determining the vote, so therefore they don’t have a mandate?

                      I don’t mean the invite yourself NBN petition that had only one loaded question.

                      • Observer
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 8:05 am | Permalink |

                        Here is a new poll that shows people aren’t happy. It didn’t take long.

                        http://www.watoday.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/labor-storms-ahead-20131124-2y43r.html

                      • Fibroid
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 8:23 am | Permalink |

                        Which has nothing whatever to do with the NBN policy mandate subject under discussion.

                      • Observer
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 8:26 am | Permalink |

                        Of course not LOL.

                      • Alex
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 8:29 am | Permalink |

                        Morning Observer…

                        Yes it’s my turn Fibroid *sigh*.

                        Seems our friend is not alone in ‘wondering’…

                        http://delimiter.com.au/2013/11/22/apology-explanation-residents-want-fttp-back-says-labor/#comment-630583

                      • Observer
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 9:01 am | Permalink |

                        Seriously Alex, you have to feel for Fibroid.

                        After all, he has been almost single handedly trying the defend the honour of his beloved Coalition, frantically trying to nullify any attempted criticisms on this site. He has been weaving, ducking, denying, avoiding, working the twin screens to the point of exhaustion, with sporadic but clumsy assistance from the one with the silly name and the occasional part time sniper. And what do Tony and his mob do? Spoil all his good work with a cocktail of incompetence and secrecy. How long can Fibroid keep this up? How long before he becomes powerless to stop the flood of discontent? How long before he realises the futility of his endeavour?

                      • Chas
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 6:16 pm | Permalink |

                        Dear God…are you once again asking to prove a negative?

                        Heavy sigh…

      • Harri
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 4:42 pm | Permalink |

        “the Libs already won the election and a mandate to change from FTTP to FTTN.”

        I must have missed the nationwide referendum that was conducted at the same time as the election.

      • Graham
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 1:04 am | Permalink |

        ” the Libs already won the election and a mandate to change from FTTP to FTTN”

        Funny, I remember that if they had a broadband mandate at all it was to provide a minimum of 25Mbps download to everyone in Australia before December 2016.

        Since they obviously have no intention of fulfilling this “mandate”, then they have no mandate at all.

        • Fibroid
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:19 am | Permalink |

          @Graham

          Well it’s not 2016 yet and it’s somewhat laughable that only just over two months of being in Government the Coalition should have all their reviews done and the FTTN part of the rollout should be well on its way, in this time period with the new Rudd Government of 2007 they were in the process of thinking about changing their NBN model, what you might call a mandate for ‘changing their mind’ on their pre election NBN policy promise perhaps?

          Did the previous Government have a mandate to increase total funding every time they produced a NBN Co Corporate plan?, so at the end it was sitting at $45.6b caused by having ‘near enough is good enough’ rollout targets, the actual rollout figure in September was a little over a half of what was predicted just 12 months earlier!

          • Alex
            Posted 23/11/2013 at 10:30 am | Permalink |

            NO….

            The review you are making excuses for was promised by the government in 60 days and 60 days is up…

            http://www.zdnet.com/nbn-deadlines-missed-can-turnbull-make-the-industry-play-nice-7000023284/

            They failed… period!

            Why do you refuse to hold this government to the nth degree scrutiny you did the last?

            • Fibroid
              Posted 23/11/2013 at 10:38 am | Permalink |

              A slippage of weeks is of no consequence, compared to the first NBN Co Plan promised for May 2010 and delivered seven months later in time scale comparisons it is certainly of no consequence.

              Oh and I just checked the date at the top of my screen, it’s still not 2016 yet and it’s not 2019 either.

              • Chas
                Posted 23/11/2013 at 2:28 pm | Permalink |

                “A slippage of weeks is of no consequence, compared to the first NBN Co Plan promised for May 2010 and delivered seven months later in time scale comparisons it is certainly of no consequence”

                Except that (unlike the earlier slippage), it is completely the fault of the current government and not third parties (as it was for Labor). This is 100% on Malcolm’s head…

                • Fibroid
                  Posted 24/11/2013 at 11:04 am | Permalink |

                  @Chas

                  ‘Except that (unlike the earlier slippage)’

                  So no one is too blame for the first NBN Business plan being seven months late, perhaps it was the Coalition in oppositions fault.

                  • Alex
                    Posted 24/11/2013 at 4:19 pm | Permalink |

                    Enter Strawman…

                    “So no one is to blame for previous… blah, blah, blah, more school boy rubbish…”

                    Seriously :/

                    Which part of, I or we, (as I can see from other posters) believe the same rules need to apply to both network rollouts, do you not understand?

                    And worse, why don’t you agree and think only the original plan needs to be on time, have transparency and scrutinised?

                  • Chas
                    Posted 24/11/2013 at 5:08 pm | Permalink |

                    @Fibroid

                    In point of fact it was Telstra who was to blame. The Heads of Agreement was done 6 months prior to the publishing of the Corporate Plan, but the actual implementation was delayed until 10 months after the Plan was released. This delayed the implementation of the Plan by over 10 months because usage of the pits and pipes was prevented in both planning and rollout.

                    • Fibroid
                      Posted 24/11/2013 at 7:22 pm | Permalink |

                      So why promise it for May 2010 then?

                      http://delimiter.com.au/2010/05/06/nbn-co-promises-business-case-by-may-31/

                      • Alex
                        Posted 24/11/2013 at 8:24 pm | Permalink |

                        So that justifies MT’s plan being late does it…?

                        Your previous, can do no wrong opposition (now government) went to the polls telling us all how much better they are (in everything, but my comment relates to comms of course) got in power and have done no better…

                        In fact worse – a simple report was all that was needed and promised, but no…

                        And then instead of a rational reasoned response or manning up and saying oh dear this is no good… you the blind faithful, yet again resort do the school boy tactics and say, well what about them…?

                        We (Aussies) voted them out… what about YOU!

                      • Chas
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 7:44 am | Permalink |

                        @Fibroid

                        “So why promise it for May 2010 then?”

                        Why promise what? Sorry, but you are just throwing random ideas and links out there now.
                        That link was for the business case results. What has that to do with anything?

                        The Corporate Plan required a final agreement from Telstra…while the Heads of Agreement was signed in June of 2010, Telstra delayed and changed the final agreement.

                      • Fibroid
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 8:38 am | Permalink |

                        @Chas

                        ‘Why promise what?’

                        The first NBN Co Business plan.

                        ‘Sorry, but you are just throwing random ideas and links out there now.’

                        It’s not a random link it is a actual link.

                        ‘That link was for the business case results. What has that to do with anything?’

                        We are comparing delayed reports, I give you an example of one that was seven months late (totally acceptable of course because it was from the darling Labor NBN Co), but a report from the Coalition that is weeks late is evidence at the highest level of total incompetence.

                        ‘The Corporate Plan required a final agreement from Telstra…while the Heads of Agreement was signed in June of 2010, Telstra delayed and changed the final agreement.’

                        That report finally produced in December 2010 was promised in May 2010, (we were supposed to have it before the August 2010 election) had nothing to do with the Telstra/NBN Co agreement, that was approved and signed off in October 2011.

              • RocK_M
                Posted 23/11/2013 at 3:11 pm | Permalink |

                So just to clarify..

                A “slippage” of 1-2 weeks off a 2 month that had no extrernal factors to cause the delay from 3rd parties deadline is “ok” (so basically you’ve gone over your deadline by about 20% of the time required)

                But a delay of 9-12 months on a 15-20 year project due to external factors out of the companies control is “not acceptable” (so basically so far about 2% delay on the build time)

                • Fibroid
                  Posted 24/11/2013 at 11:22 am | Permalink |

                  @Rock_M

                  You need to read what I said, not what you think I said, I was referring to the first NBN Co Business plan, perhaps you can explain what the factors outside their control caused it to be seven months late.

                  I love the double standards being applied here, when anything is late in regards to the previous Labor NBN rollout it is passed off as ‘factors beyond their control’ or you need to look at the bigger picture of the end game, when anything from the Coalition is late in regards to their NBN reports or whatever, even if it is trivially only weeks the Coalition are directly responsible, and there is no end game of 2016 and 2019.

                  It also applies to the additional work load of being directly responsible for all the inherited stuff ups from the Labor NBN plan, I bet Labor are looking at what the Coalition have to deal with and are saying ‘phew that was close if we had got back in we would have had to tap dance and spin our way through our NBN stuff ups for the next three years’!

                  • Chas
                    Posted 24/11/2013 at 5:10 pm | Permalink |

                    “perhaps you can explain what the factors outside their control caused it to be seven months late”

                    The 10 month delay by Telstra to allow them access to the pits and pipes.

                    • Fibroid
                      Posted 24/11/2013 at 7:23 pm | Permalink |

                      That delayed the report?

                      • Chas
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 7:48 am | Permalink |

                        “That delayed the report?”

                        Of course it did…how can you accurately report on a Corporate Plan when one of the largest expenses is still unknown?

                        The only thing that the NBN was guilty of is overestimating Telstra’s ability to come to a decision and get it ratified by shareholders. Since this has never been done before, their optimism is understandable. But the problem was with Telstra, NOT with Labor.

            • Alex
              Posted 23/11/2013 at 10:45 am | Permalink |

              Why do you refuse to hold this government to the nth degree scrutiny you did the last?

              • Fibroid
                Posted 24/11/2013 at 11:27 am | Permalink |

                Why, don’t you think 99.99% of Delimiter anti-Coalition and overwhelming negative posting on the subject of Coalition NBN policy is doing a good enough job?

                I’m flattered you think you need my help.

                • Alex
                  Posted 24/11/2013 at 12:06 pm | Permalink |

                  Why do you refuse to hold this government to the nth degree scrutiny you did the last?

                  It’s not a trick question…

                  • Observer
                    Posted 24/11/2013 at 12:45 pm | Permalink |

                    Interesting. If you criticise the Coalition’s policy, this makes automatically anti-Coalition. Funny, how these people are incapable of thinking in other terms but politically. You are either with them or you are a socialist when you just don’t think the policy is any good. It would not matter who proposes it. The fact that it is predictable from a Coalition government is just coincidental.

                    I also like the description of Labor’s policy as extravaganza but the $29.5b magically becomes small change if it applies to FTTN. FTTP’s money could be better used for hospitals and roads, but, course this does not apply to FTTN. Never mind that one plan is long term and the other short term. This is easy dealt with by these geniuses by implying that future needs are and will remain non-existent. Never mind evidence pointing to the opposite. After all, all you need is an “independent” article or review which supports your views.

                    Any negative predictions of FTTN become conjecture but positive ones are upcoming realities.

                    Oh, the rosy world of conservatism.

                    • Fibroid
                      Posted 24/11/2013 at 3:41 pm | Permalink |

                      Your turn Alex.

                      • Alex
                        Posted 24/11/2013 at 4:13 pm | Permalink |

                        Some here are probably thinking about now that you’ve finally found your lot in life Fibroid… meaningless filler commenter, between meaningful comments…

                        However I’d suggest, you found that lot years ago.

                        :)

    5. Robert
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 1:33 pm | Permalink |

      Don’t blame me, I voted labor this time for this exact reason. I guarantee that any “review” will support the Lib plan to shaft us on decent infrastructure. Not to mention Abbott will have us at war with the majority of our neighbouring countries if he doesn’t learn to play nice.

    6. Brendan
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 1:49 pm | Permalink |

      This all assumes that Turnbull actually cares. At all. He doesn’t.

      NBN isn’t his baby. He’s not invested in it. Is still apportioning blame despite it now being under his ministry.

      Yanking entire swathes of builds because you don’t believe 90% of work completion is relevant – just isn’t sensible. Things generally do not simply spring into existence (sub-atomic particles not withstanding).

      Frankly the old maps simply needed clearer delineation. That’s it. Make it clear that which is being built, versus that which is built.

      Transparency. Remember that word, Turnbull?

      People tend to respect open and honest accounting. They may not like delays, but if it’s clear what’s happening? Less of an issue.

      Hiding sh*t and pretending it’s the other guy’s fault? Not so much.

      • Rohan Gilchrist
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 1:05 pm | Permalink |

        Welcome to Australia by the liberal party. Remember all the shit from Abbot? Well we going to get ignored here….

    7. Josh Lukins
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 2:39 pm | Permalink |

      As a Horsley resident whose home was taken of the map I’m glad my local member (Stephen Jones) is fighting for us on the NBN issue.

      The rest of our suburb (Dapto) will get the NBN – Horsley it seems will miss out despite (before the great purge) having a RFS of Dec 2013

      • GongGav
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 3:16 pm | Permalink |

        Josh,

        As far as I know, Horsley is still getting it. It’s another area that has just fallen off the map, despite significant work going on in the area. I had a tete-e-tete with Renai about Wollongong for this reason a couple of weeks ago.

        There is clearly work happening, and Silcar employees in the Dapto area have confirmed that areas that were being built are still getting it in the near future (go to Whirlpool, and look for the Wollongong thread in the “NBN” forums), but there’s no specific indication of where that rollout is at on your side of the area.

        From memory there was some mention that you might be behind the “massive” suburb of Wongawilli (for others, its a “suburb” of about 3 streets), but that shouldnt delay things any great length :) Latest on the thread is that they are installing conduit for the fiber line on Orana Rd (other side of the freeway, heading towards Mt Brown) this morning, which unfortunately doesnt help you specifically :(

        Given the relative age of Horsley though, I doubt there would be much remediation needed, if any. Unfortunately, that might count against you if it takes too long, as the copper will be in relatively decent condition.

    8. cameron
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 3:17 pm | Permalink |

      The simple fix for the old maps was to break the “construction” phase into more granular classifications.

      Even “in design” “waiting construction” and “under construction” would have addressed the nominated concerns.

      Why didn’t they do that? I’d say because the real reason the maps were “fixed” was for reasons other than those stated.

      • Soth
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 3:27 pm | Permalink |

        I think they are using Apple maps now *giggles*

        • Fibroid
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:49 am | Permalink |

          Actually Apple maps have improved a hell of lot in iOS 7.

          :)

      • grump3
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 3:27 pm | Permalink |

        Simple explanation really:
        By removing all that existing work in progress from the maps Malcolm can then abruptly restore them in rapid succession while claiming He’s ‘Done it All & so much Faster & Cheaper’ than that incompetent Labor mob.

    9. SMEMatt
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 3:46 pm | Permalink |

      My suburb disappeared from the list despite seeing remediation work being conducted in my area and witnessing NBN carrying out physical infrastructure inspections. I got a letter drop in my mail just before going on holidays saying NBN co will starting fiber build in my area very shortly (I was still off the build list).
      I’ve reappeared on the list with build commence date of nov 2013 (it was dec 2012). I think MT is trying to claim credit for work that has already started because now he can point to areas and say look we commenced nov 2013 and it was completed faster than Labor builds.

    10. Fibroid
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 4:51 pm | Permalink |

      “Countless residents have been contacting Sharon and myself over the past month concerned about the future of the NBN here in the region”, said Jones.”

      Sorry I missed the figure, how many residents is that again, and how does it compare to the ‘countless residents’ who are not really concerned?

      • Lionel
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 5:14 pm | Permalink |

        Well, the only thing that would be countless would be an infinite number. So any number minus infinite…
        Well there are a lot less than no unconcerned residents.

      • Alex
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 5:28 pm | Permalink |

        There’s that alert again :)

        29B + … maybe?

        • Observer
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 10:30 am | Permalink |

          Note so far 4 contributions from Fibroid. All have the same goal: Defending his beloved Coalition (not matter what or how silly). Nothing constructive, nothing that helps the debate alone. Fibroid, the Coalition’s warrior, ready to defend.

      • Haderak
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 10:00 am | Permalink |

        @Fibroid: Ah, I understand your confusion.

        You see, the ‘countless’ figure is an ‘Up To’ estimation of the amount, not a minimum deliverable.

        The precise amount of ‘countless’ you receive depends on how many other users have been packed into your crappy, corroded infrastructure.

        • Fibroid
          Posted 24/11/2013 at 11:49 am | Permalink |

          @Haderak

          I’m not confused, countless as a figure can be anything you want it to be, is countless statically significant in this instance, is it the majority view of that electorate or is it the minority view of that electorate?

          These and many other important questions will never be answered, no doubt we will see this vague political waffle technique used ‘countless’ times in the future.

          • Alex
            Posted 24/11/2013 at 6:02 pm | Permalink |

            Not confused..?

            You mean this (childish, nitpicking, pedantics) is as rational as we can expect…? Really? Seriously?

            Oh well good for a laugh if nothing else, carry on!

            • Fibroid
              Posted 25/11/2013 at 9:45 am | Permalink |

              So you don’t know if ‘countless’ as a figure is statistically significant or not either, it would be easier if you just said that.

              • Alex
                Posted 25/11/2013 at 10:12 am | Permalink |

                Of course countless isn’t a statistic, surely everyone knows and accepts that?

                It was a figure of speech… like Mal invented the internet.

                No one is silly enough to takes such throw away words on face value are they? Except one, sorry to burst your bubble twice, especially relating to Mal…

                If you don’t want silly answers, don’t ask silly questions… and if you ask serious questions, have the kahunas to accept the factual answers, without the ensuing silly questions, to cover for your inability to accept the initial factual answers…

    11. socrates
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 5:55 pm | Permalink |

      Renai says ‘This included, in many cases, work on paper that took place in office environments, despite the fact that no actual construction work in the field had actually started.’

      Which seems to ignore the reality that any project will first have to be be planned ‘in office environments’ as an essential part of the construction program. Would it have been better if the trucks had just rolled out and started the rollout where the drivers felt like it?

      The Prince of Point Piper may not have thought that was a good idea, mainly because it wouldn’t have been.

    12. Kevin Cobley
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 6:37 pm | Permalink |

      Heavy storms today in Katoomba, internet was down from 2.00pm to 6.15pm, running real slow at the moment! New modem needed electrical surge through overhead entry wire running from a flooded street pit.
      I’d like Mal to have a look down at the Telstra Pit here, it looks like something from Bangladesh.
      Can’t believe the coalition wants to keeps us in the third world.

      • walter
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 5:18 am | Permalink |

        I really wish people would take photos of their pits and blog them or something I have a couple after rain the pit was full to the brim like a swimming pool no doubt the reason we had so many issues.

        • Alex
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 12:13 pm | Permalink |

          +1

      • Fibroid
        Posted 24/11/2013 at 11:55 am | Permalink |

        @Kevin Cobley & walter

        What is the relationship between a Telstra pit full of water using the PSTN system and Fibre to the Node?

        Assuming that is the point you are making , unless you want MT to personally come out to the pit in his Telstra Toyota van and pump it out.

        • Alex
          Posted 24/11/2013 at 12:04 pm | Permalink |

          1 + 1 = ?

          We all know, why don’t you have a wild guess?

          • Fibroid
            Posted 24/11/2013 at 3:59 pm | Permalink |

            So that’s Alex code for no we don’t what the relationship is between a Telstra PSTN pit full of water and FTTN, but it ‘looks’ as if it must be ‘really really bad’, and that’s all that matters.

            • Alex
              Posted 24/11/2013 at 4:08 pm | Permalink |

              No it was a simple maths question obviously but understandably, sadly beyond you…

              • Lionel
                Posted 24/11/2013 at 6:25 pm | Permalink |

                It’s whatever Hockey says it is… let me see 1 + 1 = 11, yes, it’s eleventy.

                • Alex
                  Posted 24/11/2013 at 6:48 pm | Permalink |

                  +1 (pun intended ;)

        • Chas
          Posted 24/11/2013 at 5:39 pm | Permalink |

          @fibroid

          “What is the relationship between a Telstra pit full of water using the PSTN system and Fibre to the Node?”

          Wow…I had no idea that your level of understanding was so minimal…that explains alot.
          Half of Fibre to the Node IS the PSTN system…

          • Fibroid
            Posted 24/11/2013 at 7:32 pm | Permalink |

            @Chas

            So FTTP doesn’t use Telstra pits, or are they specially selected dry ones, what happens when a BT pit fills with water in their extensive UK FTTN network, does everyone on FTTN lose their connection and residences on FTTP stay connected, or is the Australian rain water a special corrosive type unique in the world (like our copper is apparently)?

            • Lionel
              Posted 24/11/2013 at 9:39 pm | Permalink |

              ‘So FTTP doesn’t use Telstra pits, or are they specially selected dry ones”

              They are remediated ones. The water logged copper will be phased out in short order. I guess there is no copper remediation since there are not costing for it.

              “when a BT pit fills with water in their extensive UK FTTN network, does everyone on FTTN lose their connection and residences on FTTP stay connected”

              Yes, just like in the Queensland floods, the copper connections were ruined and FTTH kept working.

              ” or is the Australian rain water a special corrosive type unique in the world (like our copper is apparently)?”

              No, just lack of maintenance and sloppy temporary fixes that they never get around to fixing properly since privatisation.

              • Fibroid
                Posted 25/11/2013 at 9:56 am | Permalink |

                @Lionel

                ‘They are remediated ones.’

                Oh I see.

                ‘I guess there is no copper remediation since there are not costing for it.’

                The key phrase in that statement is ‘I guess’, well if that’s all it takes ‘I guess’ they definitely will cost for it.

                ‘Yes, just like in the Queensland floods, the copper connections were ruined and FTTH kept working.’

                umm what? your yes to BT FTTN failing comes from where?, and it cannot be just like the Queensland floods comparing it with FTTP, unless the Coalition have been rolling out FTTN in QLD while they were in opposition.

                ‘No, just lack of maintenance and sloppy temporary fixes that they never get around to fixing properly since privatisation.’

                Here we go again another ‘expert’ that knows more about the Telstra copper than Telstra does, makes you wonder why they haven’t let the Coalition know about it, FTTN has been a known policy directive since April, so has a minimum of 25Mbps by 2016.

                • Alex
                  Posted 25/11/2013 at 10:22 am | Permalink |

                  Yes… Telstra know indeed…

                  http://delimiter.com.au/2012/05/16/no-pristine-photos-telstra-rejects-copper-challenge/

                  D’oh

                • Alex
                  Posted 26/11/2013 at 1:53 pm | Permalink |

                  Well, well, well. Just a follow-up…

                  Telstra (in fact their Risk Officer) still now, following the recent problems… don’t even know which of their own pits are asbestos or not let alone how good the copper is functioning within or elsewhere?

                  http://www.zdnet.com/au/telstra-relies-on-public-to-inform-on-asbestos-infested-pits-7000023552/

                  As Telstra don’t know, they apparently need the public to tell them… Yet the mindless NBN critics wanted to hang NBNCo and suggested mismanagement for them not knowing about Telstra’s asbestos pits…?

                  • Fibroid
                    Posted 26/11/2013 at 4:12 pm | Permalink |

                    Of course that linked article doesn’t mention the copper once, it’s all about the pits, which at the moment has more to do with the FTTP rollout, once again a swing and a miss.

                    • Alex
                      Posted 26/11/2013 at 5:19 pm | Permalink |

                      And of course you totally ignore the first link where Telstra refused to provide the very evidence you claim they have…nice!

                      But no it doesn’t mention the copper I believe…

                      Regardless it is a clear demonstration to those who want to see, that Telstra has little idea of the condition of their own infrastructure, doesn’t it?

                      So go on argue again that Telstra and you can tell us how fantastic their copper is?

                      Dear oh dear…

                      • Fibroid
                        Posted 26/11/2013 at 6:00 pm | Permalink |

                        @Alex

                        So because Telstra refused to provide one picture of a pristine copper connection/pit therefore means all of Australia’s copper is totally unsuitable for FTTN?

                        So if Telstra did provide ONE picture of a pristine copper connection that therefore means all of Australia’s copper connections are like that and totally suitable for FTTN?

                        Totally ludicrous logic.

                      • Alex
                        Posted 26/11/2013 at 6:37 pm | Permalink |

                        I agree… the two childlike, ridiculous scenarios you gave above… one completely one way and the other completely the other, demonstrates complete ludicrous (strawman) logic…

                        Err, you don’t think there may be some middle ground…or other options? No of course not like your political bias, it’s one or the other… Complete adoration vs. complete contempt, no middle ground, no common sense, no rationale or reasoning…

                        Demonstrated graphically by the two ridiculous comparisons…

                        As I said yesterday, tilt your multiple screens to the left somewhat and centre them, as they are leaning unhealthily to the right…

                      • Lionel
                        Posted 26/11/2013 at 7:10 pm | Permalink |

                        It’s pretty obvious what condition the copper is in.

                        For years Telstra, technicians, politicians, said how bad the copper was. That it badly needed replacing, that the maintenance wasn’t being kept up, etc, etc.

                        Who is now saying it is good? Telstra, Turnbull, and every other vested interest who benefits from it being good. And some Lib fanbois who just agree with anything that Turnbull says.

                      • Alex
                        Posted 26/11/2013 at 7:34 pm | Permalink |

                        Telstra knew 10 years ago (14 Nov 2003) Lionel…

                        http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/11/14/1068674351979.html

    13. Sam
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 7:01 pm | Permalink |

      When it rains heavily my internet connection starts to degrade. I can “ping” and watch as more and more packets get dropped. This matters a lot because i am a software engineer and I work from home. It’s hard to tell clients that I can’t support them because it’s raining! Fortunately for me the FTTP NBN is almost completed on my street so I should be fine in future. Of course the speed benefits will not be fully realised because not all of my colleagues will have the NBN. Transferring large database files or doing team meetings online will still be limited by their connection. It would be so much better if everyone had FTTP. FTTN will still mean that colleagues disappear when it rains….unless we waste a billion or three in upgrading the last-mile copper connection. That’s money that could be better spent on installing FTTP in the first place. My sympathies to those who thought they were getting FTTP and have now been removed from the rollout. Especially those who did not vote for the current “clown car” government. You might end up getting an inferior FTTN connection if you are lucky….and you will likely be stuck with it for the rest of your life because, once the FTTN is in place it will likely be a *very* long time before any government will look at upgrading it to FTTP.

      • Haderak
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 10:03 am | Permalink |

        Sam story + ‘was on rollout map, not on rollout map any more’ = Haderak story

        :(

        • Sam
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 12:39 pm | Permalink |

          I’m sorry to hear that Haderak. I was worried when construction stopped for a year after they discovered the asbestos issues. Then the election was looming and I wasn’t sure that we’d get connected at all. I can’t tell you how relieved I was when the truck rolled up with the big reel of green fibre bundle. A bunch of the people in the street work from home so everyone was fairly keen to see it come through. My neighbour to the left is a architect working from home and my neighbour to the right designs custom radio aerials and wave guides. The house past him is owned by an insurance assessor who does his work out and about but comes home to do the data entry and reporting and so forth. My company does not have offices any more. Everyone works from home or on-site with clients. All we care about is “has the work been done on time?” and “are the clients happy?”.neither of those objectives requires the cost and hassle of maintaining offices. Besides the clients are too busy these days. They no longer want to meet at our offices; they prefer us to come to them. The way people work is changing and the FTTP NBN would have really supported that change. I wonder what will happen now. Will people like us all compete to buy houses in areas that have fibre? Will my area become a sort of a ghetto for professionals?

    14. Craig
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 7:41 pm | Permalink |

      Yeah, my area has disappeared from the maps. The old one had it in set to start construction in October. I’ve a friend who has shown me pics of our local exchange having all the NBN racks, power etc all setup just waiting for the gear to be installed (this was back in June). Now it looks like I’m going to be stuck with my blistering 2.3Mbps connection for a while yet…

    15. Ann O'Nymous
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 7:55 pm | Permalink |

      While a network is only as useful as the number of connections it has, the quality of the connections it has matters. If the majority of connections are of the slower variety, those with faster connections won’t be able to take full advantage of their connections, hampering domestic productivity potentially.

    16. Adam
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 8:23 pm | Permalink |

      How many of you are simply just banging your head against the wall in utter disgust at the sheer contempt and flat out ignorance to the countries best interest that Turnbull and Abott has shown the last 2 months since being elected. You’ve just got to sit back some times take a deep breath and just wonder, surely they got the freakin memo. It’s absolutely frustrating when these pair have to know what the best option is here, clearly the NBN FTTP’s benefits exceed FTTN’s (current and potential) model. By a very; very; very long shot, yet seem to think – or to give the impression that Australia’s votes were votes for an NBN for Australia, and that the voting had absolutely nothing to do with the Carbon tax.

      If they cannot comprehend and distinguish this fact then this is one example of many; many; many more ‘examples’ to come.

      They must have messed up the applicants Resume’s for NBN board members, because given the track record of Ziggy… you wouldn’t hire him in a million years, it just reassures the suspicions that something dodgy is going on here.

      C’mon, no questions, no explanations just do it right the first time.

      • haha yeah
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink |

        Not me. But keep bangin’ away. Head vs brick wall — wall wins. Head vs plasterboard — head wins eventually. They don’t build them solid any more these days. I know I’d rather fibre in the ground in a proper conduit to a secure node than aerial fibre swinging in the air with every gust of wind and falling trees.

        • Observer
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 5:19 pm | Permalink |

          Is that supposed to be funny because if it is it’s a definite fail?

          • GongGav
            Posted 23/11/2013 at 6:55 pm | Permalink |

            I thought this was one of his better efforts. Might disagree with him on plenty of things, but in this case there’s nothing wrong with what he says. Its not politicised or trolling, just his opinion.

            • Observer
              Posted 23/11/2013 at 7:00 pm | Permalink |

              This is a bit sad when he’s being praised for not being political and/or for saying something that is not totally ridiculous. My comment, however, was directed as his posting style.

    17. sb
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 8:50 pm | Permalink |

      Malcolm Turnbull is fast going down in Australian history as the gutless wonder who implemented the most second rate telecommunications infrastructure in history, that in the long run will cost Australians billions.

      So much for politicians that work to the long term benefit and future of the country. They no longer exist in politics

      Any politician who was for the best possible long term solution and technology for Australia would not even consider Fibre to The Node.

      FTTP is the best solution for Australia.
      However Malcolm Turnbull lacks the vision, open-mindness or leadership to deliver, having stacked all his study with yes men.

      As for Ziggy, we can bundle him into the same boat. Lack of vision, lack of leadership and a yes man to Turnbull.

      FTTP is dead. This will disadvantage Australia for decades because of these ignorant men.

    18. Daniel
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 9:13 pm | Permalink |

      build infrastructure liberals. roads.hospitals broadband. also maintain your existing infrastructure. stopourmoneygoingoverseas

      • haha yeah
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 3:09 pm | Permalink |

        Actually we have a current account deficit, which means the more we invest the more we have to borrow from overseas to fund it. So, for a given amount of borrowing, the more we invest in luxury superfast broadband, the less money we have for vital hospitals and health spending.

        • Chas
          Posted 24/11/2013 at 7:36 am | Permalink |

          “for a given amount of borrowing, the more we invest in luxury superfast broadband, the less money we have for vital hospitals and health spending”

          This sums up the total lack of understanding I’ve been seeing from the Coalition apologists.
          The NBN is an investment with a return (and a bloody massive one at that), and hospitals are an expense.
          I know that these terms are not always understood, but they are entirely different things and comparing them is like comparing cars and cheese.

          • Fibroid
            Posted 24/11/2013 at 12:08 pm | Permalink |

            @Chas

            ‘The NBN is an investment with a return (and a bloody massive one at that)’

            Conjecture, what is not conjecture when it comes to the term massive, is the massive missed rollout targets which added billions to the already massive total funding requirement.

            • Alex
              Posted 24/11/2013 at 4:38 pm | Permalink |

              At least they could manage as simple report/review, unlike the new lot…LOL

            • Chas
              Posted 24/11/2013 at 5:29 pm | Permalink |

              “Conjecture”

              No, simple maths and economics. The analysis is spelled out in several white papers done by the OECD and the World Bank as well as many others…most of these have already been pointed out to you, so you should probably read them.

              “what is not conjecture when it comes to the term massive, is the massive missed rollout targets which added billions to the already massive total funding requirement”

              You are correct…it is not conjecture, it is just not true.

              • Alex
                Posted 24/11/2013 at 5:58 pm | Permalink |

                He’s not good with simple math…

                http://delimiter.com.au/2013/11/22/apology-explanation-residents-want-fttp-back-says-labor/#comment-630591

              • Fibroid
                Posted 24/11/2013 at 7:36 pm | Permalink |

                @Chas

                … and you wonder why the Coalition won Government easy, with pro FTTP denial logic like that the Coalition NBN policy implementation should be a breeze.

                • Observer
                  Posted 24/11/2013 at 8:06 pm | Permalink |

                  WTF is pro FTTP denial logic?

                  Oh I know… pure nonsense.

                • Alex
                  Posted 24/11/2013 at 8:09 pm | Permalink |

                  It certainly won’t be a breeze…

                  They proved that already by not even being able to do a simple report/review on time and as promised…

                  We aren’t talking a full corporate plan with costings, ROI etc just a simple review… D’oh

                  Funny how that is ok for some though… even those who were the most outspoken critics in relation to the previous mob…

                  In case all of your multiple screens missed it…

                  http://www.zdnet.com/nbn-deadlines-missed-can-turnbull-make-the-industry-play-nice-7000023284/

                  Perhaps you need to tilt all of those screens a bit to the centre, they seem to lean heavily to the right…

                  :)

                  • Fibroid
                    Posted 25/11/2013 at 10:47 am | Permalink |

                    @Alex

                    ‘We aren’t talking a full corporate plan with costings, ROI etc just a simple review…’

                    Let’s take another report then more in line with the Coalition reviews, the speedy simple Labor NBN review.

                    1. November 2007 Labor won the election on a private/public partnership FTTN policy.
                    2. April 2008 RFP issued for 12Mbps minimum to 98% of residences.
                    3. January 2009 RFP evaluation completed by Expert Panel, and delivered to Government.
                    3. Expert panel report findings (just an extract) announced April 2009, which ended up as the FTTP to 93% policy.

                    • Alex
                      Posted 25/11/2013 at 11:14 am | Permalink |

                      Did the current government miss their own promised target of 60 days.

                      Yes or No?

                      • Fibroid
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 2:39 pm | Permalink |

                        Yes I thought you would appreciate how long these things take, it’s good to get a working perspective of what a real delay timeline actually looks like, and Labor in that time period were not correcting the previous Governments rollout maps for them.

                      • Alex
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 3:05 pm | Permalink |

                        No answer, thought not… we all knew you’d refuse to accept the facts, as usual… pitiful.

                        But i do agree that perspective is needed.

                        I personally believe that rolling out a nationwide FttP network (or FttN network for that matter) and making those deadlines is much more difficult than under taking a simple fucking report and making it’s deadline?

                        Which do you believe is harder?

                      • Alex
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 5:49 pm | Permalink |

                        Whist managing a simple report on time is apparently too difficultfor the new government…

                        Rolling out FttP on time was difficult for the previous government…

                        It seems obvious that the impossibility in comms is to have Fibroid answer a simple question at all, let alone answer it on time and truthfully…

                        ;)

                      • Fibroid
                        Posted 25/11/2013 at 7:03 pm | Permalink |

                        Shouldn’t that last one be as Observer, you getting flustered?

                        :)

    19. Craig Rider
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 10:12 pm | Permalink |

      How about an apology from Labor for those that were misled by being listed on the NBN rollout map.

      My area has been listed as being in build for 18-24 months.

      Ready for Service was originally Dec 2013, just prior to the election it was brought forward to Oct 2013.

      Ready for Service is now listed as April 2014, 6 months delayed.

      I’ve seen more work done in the area since the election that in the previous 24 months.

      As Turnbull stated, most of the addresses pulled from the maps haven’t had a cable pulled or a hole dug.

      • Alex
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 12:51 pm | Permalink |

        One would surmise they ‘are’ sorry Craig…

        So.. now what?

        You receive the consolation prize, outmoded, obsolete copper reliant, fraudband (as described by the current government previously) FttN from the current government.

        As such, perhaps they should apologise to you (and the rest of us) too… in advance.

        • Fibroid
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 4:10 pm | Permalink |

          How do you know Craig is definitely going to get FTTN?

          • Alex
            Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:09 pm | Permalink |

            Actually in trying to be your usual childish nitpicking self, you actually inadvertently made a valid point, Fibroid. Good boy (pat your own head, for me, for encouragement)…

            Having seen the new government HOPELESSLY FAIL their own 60 day report… yes a simple report was all that was needed and they couldn’t even manage that…

            http://www.zdnet.com/nbn-deadlines-missed-can-turnbull-make-the-industry-play-nice-7000023284/

            … it is indeed doubtful that Craig will ever receive any improvement, be it FttN or otherwise…

            At least he would have received FttP, even if somewhat late… thanks for bringing that to our attention.

    20. Phil
      Posted 22/11/2013 at 10:20 pm | Permalink |

      “As Turnbull stated, most of the addresses pulled from the maps haven’t had a cable pulled or a hole dug.”

      Unfortunately MOST but not ALL.

      Clearly there’s a fair amount of areas which have been taken completely off the map but which ARE physically actually “under construction” in a very literal sense.

      The New Maps are EQUALLY AS INACCURATE as the old ones, the inaccuracy merely differs by quality not quantity.

      The REASON for this is (arguably) politics not truth.

      • SBD
        Posted 22/11/2013 at 11:51 pm | Permalink |

        I’d like to see this point investigated further, and plastered over the media. There have been numerous posts on delimiter, whirlpool etc from people that have seen NBN vehicles in their streets, and then seen themselves removed from the rollout maps. The posts have been quite specific as to location, and should therefore be identifiable.
        Were they all merely surveying infrastructure? Is someone reducing the amount of “work commenced” sites so there are less penalities for contract cancellation.
        Actually I think the death of the NBN was a foregone conclusion after the election, and all board appointments, announcements etc. since then are only confirming the fact. A token Simon Hackett is not enough to counter the slew of “yes men” appointements, although we can hope he didn’t accept a muzzle along with the job. Who want’s to run book on when Simon quits in disgust?

        • Fibroid
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:44 am | Permalink |

          @SBD

          So only after two months of what is in reality the Coalition honouring existing Labor NBN Co rollout contracts, one major contract was literally hastily signed off within hours of the caretaker provisions of Government cutting in before the September election, now the cry is for the ‘media to investigate further’ why the Labor instigated rollout is behind its whiteboard mapping targets .

          Bit late now don’t you think? you should have been asking the hard questions 1-2 years ago instead of asking the Coalition about the inherited problems of the hangover of Labor policy.

          • Alex
            Posted 23/11/2013 at 10:25 am | Permalink |

            Ah the alert…

            So all we have to do is read the review/report the government promised after 60 days to give us a clearer understanding of where they are up to…

            Oh but look they missed their own target… a simple report, is all they had to do, but couldn’t ‘manage it’…

            http://www.zdnet.com/nbn-deadlines-missed-can-turnbull-make-the-industry-play-nice-7000023284/

          • SBD
            Posted 24/11/2013 at 12:10 pm | Permalink |

            @Fibroid, why does your response have nothing to do with what I said? Did I even mention Labor?

            This article discussion thread alone has several examples of people that have physical presence of NBN contractors, and even actual work occurring in their streets. But they have been removed from the rollout map.

            The new rollout map criteria “Build commenced” is supposed to only show where work is actually occuring, because Malcolm thinks this is the only valid criteria. But it does not show where work is actually occuring.

            I concede, it would have be damn hard for me to ask questions about the current rollout map inconsistencies, two years before they happened. Was that your point Fibroid?

            The map has been changed, it is demonstrably removing sites that have actual physical work done. Is the reason for this to enable cancelling of these areas where actual rollout has commenced? THAT is what I am saying should be investigated, an on the ground fact that is being obscured and the motive or incompetence behind the obscuration.

            • Fibroid
              Posted 24/11/2013 at 3:53 pm | Permalink |

              @SBD

              The map has changed well before the current short two months reign of the Coalition government, the call for a media investigation into what is the previous Governments failings is a interesting call.

              The Coalition could rightly say we are fixing up up the previous Governments problems with the too ambitious rollout targets, we intend to implement our own NBN policy thanks, not fix up theirs and say it’s full steam ahead with a Labor FTTP to 93% by 2021, as if there has been no change of Government whatever.

              • SBD
                Posted 24/11/2013 at 10:53 pm | Permalink |

                Guess what Fibroid? There has been a change of government. They have their own policy. Their policy and implementation for a more accurate rollout map, has Created a New Map that demonstrably fails their own criteria. Why has this happened, and what is the motive?

                Leave the broad generalisations, party politics etc. There is no Labor NBN anymore. There is a current government that is stating one thing, and implementing another. Take them to task with the same fervour you applied to the ex-governments policy. {ducks a low flying pig}

                BTW Fibroid, Kindly don’t shove your irrelevant soapbox on other peoples comments, stick to responding to what they actually say, or reply to the actual article directly. You remind me of listening to KRudd’s dying gasps in his pre-election campaign, as radio broadcast from Sydney, no matter what anyone said or asked he continuously repurposed any question/conversation and repeatedly coughed out the same one liners. “…. hole in the budget..” ” … paying rich people to have kids… ” … and whatever the third one was.

                • Fibroid
                  Posted 25/11/2013 at 11:00 am | Permalink |

                  @SBD

                  ‘Their policy and implementation for a more accurate rollout map, has Created a New Map that demonstrably fails their own criteria.’

                  It is more that it fails your criteria, as you have said Labor policy is no more, but the maps are fixing up hangovers of problems with NBN Co FTTP mapping, as Delimiter has acknowledged above:

                  “I’m on record as backing the Coalition’s changes to NBN Co’s maps, which had grown highly inaccurate over time”

                  ‘ Why has this happened, and what is the motive?’

                  They need a motive for trying to make the mapping more accurate?

                  Again I repeat my point, taking the Coalition to task for the failings of the previous Governments NBN scheme including the mapping predictions seems all too late, take them to task for the failing of their rollout and the mapping inaccuracies of their policy.

                  • SBD
                    Posted 25/11/2013 at 6:39 pm | Permalink |

                    It is now Turnbull’s map. It has totally removed sites where actual physical work has commenced. Why?

                    Read ten times and don’t skip any words….

                    • Fibroid
                      Posted 25/11/2013 at 7:31 pm | Permalink |

                      I think you have answered your own question.

                      ‘Guess what Fibroid? There has been a change of government. They have their own policy. ‘

                      • SBD
                        Posted 27/11/2013 at 10:47 pm | Permalink |

                        There are none so blind as those that will not see. What were you replying to, the post further up which you already answered? Stop speed reading Fibroid, you aren’t any good at it, try ten words per minute, it might be easier for you to comprehend what people actually say.

                        From what you are saying… you agree the Liberals have a policy of making the NBN Map even more innaccurate by removing sites where physical construction HAS ALREADY commenced, and you are on record as supporting it. Good for you.

                        Labor’s NBN map claimed virtual work, which had only commenced on paper, which is a case of arguing definitions and questionable accuracy, also not particularly fair as it was prone to later cancellation by Liberal.
                        Liberal’s NBN map is denying physical presence on the streets and work in the real world (which is their own metric for work commenced in their own policy) which is a case of delusion/deception and grossly inaccurate.
                        Which is worse? Which is currently relevant and which no longer matters one iota?

                        Hmmm delusional and deceptive, I see why you love them. Bye Fibroid, insert your irrelevant remark below. Talk about how fantastic Abbot’s boat policy is maybe?

            • Alex
              Posted 24/11/2013 at 4:31 pm | Permalink |

              SBD

              “@Fibroid, why does your response have nothing to do with what I said? Did I even mention Labor?”

              Welcome to Delimiter… I see you’ve met our our resident strawman…

              *rolls eyes*

              • SBD
                Posted 24/11/2013 at 11:09 pm | Permalink |

                Hi Alex, thanks, I’ve seen his ilk before, as well as his usual comments here for the past year or more.

                .. not really delimeter relevant topic, but its 2 days post article and Fibroid’s a topic all by himself, maybe even a genus
                I won’t feed him again. It’s just that when a troll tries to grasp my ankle as I cross a bridge, I like to keep walking and drag him out to squirm in the sunlight. Sometimes makes them a bit more wary about ankle biting.
                Others however have an amazing ability to not see what’s in front of them, which I’ve even seen in face to face situations. When inescably presented with solid facts that go against their belief, you can actually see the eyes glaze over. Responses then vary a bit, they can then change to irrelevant topics, totally ignore your presence, fake a fit (“oh my dicky ticker”) or even get violent.

                eg. “I don’t believe in UFO’s, they aren’t in the bible”
                “Neither are kangaroo’s”
                “…………”

    21. raymond
      Posted 23/11/2013 at 7:19 am | Permalink |

      “I’m on record as backing the Coalition’s changes to NBN Co’s maps”

      what the actual change that happened or were you, like I, expecting more transparency via more status types?

      ie we all knew the “construction commenced” metric wasnt really that great, it should have been called “work commenced”, but hey, at least we could see if work had started for our location or not, and if it had then 9-24 months later it would go active.

      i wasnt expecting the LNP to just change the “construction commenced” metric and then remove all locations not under that new definition, I was expecting, (i think like most people), at minimum a “work commenced” (the office stuff/planning), “contracts allocated”, “remediation”, “construction commenced”, and “active” statuses to be created so we could actually see where each location was really up to. (the transparency bit)

      all we have now is a map that while “more accurate” doesnt actually help us know where things are up to, but it does help the LNP to easily hide any delays their rollout may encounter because those are always before the actual fibre installation itself starts.

      the LNP will use the map to try and show that they are quicker because it only take 2-3 months from “work commenced” to “activation”, which is typical turnbull, only show part of the truth, the bits that make him look good, and not all of it which would make him look bad.

    22. Guest
      Posted 23/11/2013 at 7:48 am | Permalink |

      Yes, my place has disappeared off the map, too.

      So frustrating:

      “This website is currently under review, pending the introduction of new Government policy.
      Some content may not be current. You should not rely solely on this information”

      Get ya shit together!

      • haha yeah
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 3:14 pm | Permalink |

        It’s more an issue of cleaning up Labor’s “shit” (as you put it) defecated over two terms of chaotic incompetent “government” (or more accurately “political farce”).

        • AJT
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 5:52 pm | Permalink |

          Only a weak mind resorts to your sorts of comments.

        • Alex
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:42 pm | Permalink |

          Gees I hate the politically motivated shit that oozes here at times… FFS, we are here to discuss FttP and FttN… not your bigoted, acquiescence!

          But since you brought it up, according to another poster here, here’s something just for you (to ignore)….

          http://delimiter.com.au/2013/11/20/need-100mbps-nbn-switkowski-tells-senate/#comment-630276

          You are even mentioned in the 7th paragraph…

    23. Jason
      Posted 23/11/2013 at 8:07 am | Permalink |

      looks like reality is starting to hit those who were excited that Simon Hackett was on the nbn co board

      simon hackett isnt going to change the way the coalition wants to run the nbn

      Why it was a silly idea that people thought the labor’s nbn version might be saved because simon hackett was on the nbn co board

      The only thing can save labor’s nbn is a new election and the coalition loses

      • Fibroid
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:22 am | Permalink |

        On what basis do you conclude Hackett is on the Board to push the old Labor NBN policy?

        • Jason
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 7:51 pm | Permalink |

          im alway stated Hackett being on the board will make no difference, he was appointed more in profit for the nbn co rather than customer focus

          Others reading these articles , thought for some reason hackett being on the board would get turnbull to change his mind

      • haha yeah
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 3:18 pm | Permalink |

        Why would you want to “save” something that is facing cost overruns with major contractors hanging up tools unless they get higher wage rates to pay workers and headed for financial bankruptcy?

        • Alex
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:43 pm | Permalink |

          Evidence?

    24. LM
      Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:20 am | Permalink |

      If Australians wanted FTTH they should have voted in the ALP again. That we didn’t shows that FTTH is not a top priority for the electorate, regardless of what survey says.

      Surveys may show FTTH is vastly preferred, but that is also irrelevant.

    25. Observer
      Posted 23/11/2013 at 10:50 am | Permalink |

      The reason why the maps are showing very little is simply because the ‘adults’ don’t have a real policy to start with, just some ideas with a cap on it. Now they have to work out the real thing.
      First get some cronies to agree that FTTN is the best thing since sliced bread.
      Second, negotiate to find out how much the “Free” copper is going to cost but also who remedies and maintains it.
      Third, (one would hope) assess how much of the network is suitable for FTTN.
      Fourth, work out the network design (how many nodes, how far apart, where first).

      The political problem they have is that until all this is worked out, the “adults” have to be seen to have the NBN roll out proceeding at a better pace than it did under Labor. The issue, then, is that it means rolling out more FTTH than they would like. If, as they claim, FTTN is so much cheaper than FTTH, this can only result in a cost blow out.

      Can’t wait to see how it unfolds.

      • Fibroid
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 4:20 pm | Permalink |

        ‘The reason why the maps are showing very little is simply because the ‘adults’ don’t have a real policy to start with,’

        The maps are not of Coalition policy, the maps are of Labor policy.

        ‘First get some cronies to agree that FTTN is the best thing since sliced bread.’

        Like British Telecom , France Telecom, Deutsche Telekom and AT&T think it is?

        ‘ the “adults” have to be seen to have the NBN roll out proceeding at a better pace than it did under Labor.’

        Well that shouldn’t be too hard.

        ‘Can’t wait to see how it unfolds.’

        Neither can I, all it has to do is unfold better than the failed Labor extravaganza and they will be well ahead.

        • Observer
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 4:24 pm | Permalink |

          Yawn… the usual predictable, contribute nothing rant….

        • Alex
          Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:03 pm | Permalink |

          ‘Can’t wait to see how it unfolds.’ … *Neither can I, all it has to do is unfold better than the failed Labor extravaganza and they will be well ahead.*

          Well 0% success rate so far…

          http://www.zdnet.com/nbn-deadlines-missed-can-turnbull-make-the-industry-play-nice-7000023284/

          D’oh

          • Fibroid
            Posted 24/11/2013 at 12:18 pm | Permalink |

            I said better than the failed Labor extravaganza , even if was six months late they are still ahead.

            • Alex
              Posted 24/11/2013 at 4:06 pm | Permalink |

              Failed… evidence…?

              Otherwise refer Delimiter comments policy…. as you are presenting demonstrably false information, yet again…

              In layman’s terms that’s bullshit…

              • GongGav
                Posted 25/11/2013 at 10:49 am | Permalink |

                Claiming it failed is merely conjecture. Nobody could know if it had failed until 2021. Which wont happen now, so there is no evidence proving the rollout failed. Until then it can only be in the process of failing, which you can also say about FttN which to date has an abysmal progress rate.

                So by using the conjecture methodology some around here use, there is no evidence the Labor rollout had failed.

                • Fibroid
                  Posted 25/11/2013 at 11:13 am | Permalink |

                  @GG

                  So Conroy saying it was too ambitious and the outgoing NBN Co CEO stating that:

                  “Undoubtedly, there will still be many challenges ahead, but the addition of fibre to the node to NBN Co’s suite of technology solutions will allow the NBN to be built more quickly and at less cost to the taxpayer,”

                  .. and also the actual rollout figure at the end in September was a little over a half of what was predicted just 12 months earlier and the total funding incremented every report so at the end it sat at a massive $45.6b.

                  Other than those it wasn’t a failure.

                  • Fibroid
                    Posted 25/11/2013 at 11:19 am | Permalink |

                    oh and one more …..

                    http://delimiter.com.au/2013/10/15/nbn-construction-model-failed-says-conroy/

                    • Alex
                      Posted 25/11/2013 at 12:30 pm | Permalink |

                      ROFL… oh the desperation is priceless…

                      “The private contractor model”…?

                      And would that be the same Quigley and Conroy whos every other word you have argued against… now your star witnesses…?

                      It’s just like being back at school corresponding you…with your, flip-flopping, tongue poking, well what about them mentaility…

                      Keep up the great work, very humorous….

            • Brendan
              Posted 25/11/2013 at 11:15 am | Permalink |

              How can something “fail” before it is in a position to have failed.

              By the same metric, Turnbull’s not-yet-chosen-option has also failed because it’s not met even one of the first delivery dates.

              Because your logic presumes something has “failed” before it has a chance to do so. One might be able to predict, but that is still a percentile proposition, and apart from some portions of the build running late, there are quite a few active NBN users who might disagree with you.

              Which is really more just another example of the “labor bad, coalition good” logic.

              Not really ‘fact based, evidentiary’ reasoning, is it.

    26. Sam
      Posted 23/11/2013 at 1:07 pm | Permalink |

      Having just had the FTTP NBN run down my street I have seen the level of work involved. They replaced all the cracked and broken old Telstra connection tubs in the sidewalk, bored through the ground and installed 100mm PVC conduit, dug down the side of the pits and punched holes for the new conduit, installed the beige connection cabinet, ran the green fibre bundle through and then did a lot of concreting work to fix up the street again. It was a big, disruptive process but something you’d only have happen about once in a century and the upgrade is certainly worth the hassle. Anyhow I mention this because there is a part of the FTTN plan which I do not understand. They say that there will be an option for individual fibre connections for people who are willing to pay. Ok so how would the fibre from the node cabinet to the house actually be installed? The FTTP NBN obviously uses a fibre bundle and as it passes each house a fibre can be split off from the bundle to connect that house. With FTTN this bundle does not exist. So if the node cabinet is 100m away would they be looking to drill from the cabinet to your house and pull through small diameter conduit and run a fibre through it? It seems incredibly wasteful to do a load of drilling every time a single house wants to get connected..Or maybe you would run the fibre down the street as soon as you had one paying customer who wanted to get connected. Does anyone know how this option would work in practise?.

    27. Observer
      Posted 23/11/2013 at 4:28 pm | Permalink |

      The duo Haha yeah and Fibroid are certainly having a busy day today. Head office must be paying overtime for weekend work. The problem is most of us don’t really care about idiotic political ranting.

      • AJT
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 5:54 pm | Permalink |

        +100, I think your name says it all Observer, well put.

      • Alex
        Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:46 pm | Permalink |

        They normally don’t post on Sunday’s…

        Apparently no double time ;)

        Having said that, they might work for free tomorrow, just out of spite…LOL

    28. John
      Posted 23/11/2013 at 9:49 pm | Permalink |

      posted in the wrong spot, sorry Renai!

    29. Joseph Francis
      Posted 24/11/2013 at 5:59 pm | Permalink |

      Its disappointing that I’ll probably never see the NBN,
      Already in deployment pulling the plug picking and choosing who gets it and all that it goes to show the Neo Liberals cannot be trusted. The prime minister once said he didn’t want to be prime minister now he reminds me how he put the MEAN in the centrelink means test before he was prime minister for the rich voters and now the privatization across Australia of public housing, disruption of fiber optic investments and loss of jobs as result.

    30. Observer
      Posted 24/11/2013 at 10:26 pm | Permalink |

      A very interesting piece which perfectly describes the problem with political parties

      http://www.smh.com.au/queensland/power-and-the-inconvenience-of-truth-20131122-2y1et.html

      It should be of interest to most people here. I doubt the same can be said about the rusted on twins.

      • jasmcd
        Posted 25/11/2013 at 10:34 am | Permalink |

        That actually works pretty well. Rusted on twins,or ROT for short.

        • Observer
          Posted 25/11/2013 at 10:35 am | Permalink |

          A new slogan ‘Stop the ROT”. I like it.

          • Soth
            Posted 25/11/2013 at 11:06 am | Permalink |

            So if the Liberal party were mechanics, they would Hide the ROT with some putty and paint over it. :)

    31. jasmcd
      Posted 27/11/2013 at 8:09 am | Permalink |

      Maybe Turnbull can follow the link for a spell to convince Australia that FTTN is the best choice for Australians.

    32. DrBob
      Posted 29/11/2013 at 8:44 am | Permalink |

      Nationwide FTTP shouldn’t be a problem for the government. Just do a survey, or hold a referendum to see how many people would support a levy of about $10,000 on every Australian home to pay for it.
      My bet is that the political left expect our grandchildren to pick up the tab – as with all of their other extravagant spending.




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