news Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has issued a backhanded welcome message to his new opposite, Communications Minister Anthony Albanese, accusing the NBN of being “in crisis” and of being infected by “the dysfunctional revolving door culture of NSW Labor”.
Returning Prime Minister Kevin Rudd appointed Albanese to the portfolio this morning after long-time Communications Minister Stephen Conroy resigned from the post last week in the wake of Rudd’s victory over Julia Gillard for the Prime Ministership. Rudd also made several subsidiary appointments to help oversee Labor’s broadband project, including campaigning backbencher Ed Husic to the post of Parliamentary Secretary for Broadband, and long-time techno-MP Kate Lundy to the post of Minister Assisting for Industry and Innovation and the Digital Economy.
However, in a statement issued this afternoon, Turnbull — a long-time critic of the NBN policy and Conroy’s performance in the portfolio — fired an opening shot at the new Government NBN team.
“Incumbent Broadband Minister Anthony Albanese must urgently explain why a quarter of houses ‘passed’ by the National Broadband Network can’t actually get a service over the new network,” Turnbull said, appearing to refer to an article published in this morning’s Financial Review this morning questioning the veracity of NBN Co’s rollout statistics.
“The NBN Co is now a project in crisis. News that the company is seeking a new CEO only confirms that the dysfunctional revolving door culture of NSW Labor has now infected the NBN Co itself. Mr Quigley’s contract was renewed for three years in March – now the Chairman is seeking to replace him.”
Turnbull said it was “clear” that in NBN Co’s “struggle” to meet rollout targets that had been reset to be just 15 percent of the company’s original rollout forecase, NBN Co had turned to “cynically doctoring its numbers to hide the full scale of its failure”.
“Latest statistics by Point Topic show that there were 12 million new FTTx subscribers in the past quarter compared to less than 1 million new FTTH subscribers. These numbers show how far divorced from industry best-practice is the NBN rollout,” the Liberal MP said, appearing to refer to global broadband uptake figures.
“Last week British Telecom’s Managing Director of Network Investment told CrossTalk that – even for one of the world’s largest and most sophisticated telcos – fibre to the premise had proven to be more expensive and complex than originally thought: ‘The last few hundred metres which we’ve got existing copper for, it’s very expensive and not to mention disruptive to the customers or to the businesses, to deploy fibre over that last drop. We found it was significantly more expensive and also took a lot longer – it had a much more complex provision process.'”
Turnbull also called upon Albanese to answer a series of basic questions about the NBN rollout, ranging from how many houses NBN Co had passed at June 30 to how many houses could actually connect to the network and how many active connections NBN Co had. The Liberal MP also wants Albanese to confirm he has confidence in NBN Co chief executive Mike Quigley and to detail whether there was “in-fighting” at the executive and board level at the company.
“Does the Minister still agree with his statement that infrastructure funds should only be “allocated after a rigorous cost-benefit analysis of what each project will contribute to national productivity”?” Turnbull asked, referring to a statement by Albanese published in The Australian newspaper in May 2008. “Why doesn’t this apply to the NBN? Will the Minister now commit to a cost-benefit analysis of the NBN?”
Albanese has not been hesitant to criticise Turnbull in public previously with respect to the NBN. In addition, it is likely that the pair will come into more direct confrontation than was possible in the past with respect to the NBN, given that like Turnbull, Albanese holds a seat in the House of Representatives, rather than in the Senate, as ex-Communications Minister Stephen Conroy does.
Only last week Albanese attacked Turnbull in the House of Representatives.
“Of course the Shadow Minister for Broadband and the Copper Economy [Malcolm Turnbull] is not alone in arguing the merits of copper in this Chamber,” Albanese said at the time. “Indeed, Mr Thomas Brown, a member, is recorded as arguing in the old chamber at the old place (old Parliament House): “Copper is used for greater efficiency”. He was out there arguing the case for copper, just like the Member for Wentworth today. You can look it up in Hansard – it was on 23 November 1910. This bloke would have been a visionary 103 years ago, but today he is way behind.”
“Let me tell you there were similar nay-sayers back then. There was a fellow that the Member for Wentworth could relate to, Mr Mathews. He said this: ‘The practical men in the Department, not the theorists, think that nothing is gained by using copper wire for short lines. Some of the iron wire lines have been in use for thirty years, and give as good results now as copper wire lines.’”
“You can just envisage the Member for Wentworth back then with a top hat on rocking up to parliament and saying: ‘We don’t need this copper rubbish. The iron is fine’. Just like today he argues, ‘We don’t need the fibre. The copper is fine,’ and just like the Leader of the Opposition [Tony Abbott] who sees Sonny Bill Williams at a launch and goes, ‘Oh, is that Sonny Bill or is that an apparition?’”
opinion/analysis
Welcome to the portfolio, Mr Albanese. It should be apparent right from the start that this isn’t going to be a walk in the park.
I’m in two minds about how Albanese should respond to this instant attack from Turnbull this morning. On the one hand, Turnbull’s got a point in quite a few of his statements. The NBN rollout is behind and it’s time for another update so that we know how far behind it is. In addition the allegations raised in the Financial Review this morning regarding NBN Co’s search for a CEO replacement need to be answered immediately. These are serious issues about a serious project, and the Australian public deserves transparency on the issue. I strongly support Turnbull raising the list of questions which he did — they are are all valid questions to ask NBN Co and Albanese, and ones I would ask myself if I was button-holding Albanese at a doorstop.
However, on the other hand, it would somewhat politically demean Albanese to simply answer whatever questions Turnbull chooses to put to him on day one. Let’s not forget that Albanese is not, as Conroy was, only the Communications Minister. Albanese is also the Deputy Prime Minister, and so technically on a substantially higher level of importance than Turnbull, with much wider portfolio responsibilities. It wouldn’t be seemly for him to get too involved in slagging the the Duke of Double Bay.
I’d like to see Albanese take advantage of Ed Husic’s newly minted appointment to the portfolio and set the Member for Chifley on the attack regarding Turnbull’s statement. Husic can be as much of an attack dog at times as Conroy was, and he’s been champing on the bit over the past few years to get his teeth stuck into the broadband portfolio. He’s also highly technically adept, as the former national president of the Communications, Electrical and Plumbing Union. Not that it matters in terms of House of Representatives debates now that Parliament has finished sitting until the election, but Husic’s also a lower-house MP like Turnbull, and could do with a bump in his electorate polling that could come about through a higher profile, to ensure he keeps his seat in September.
Albanese probably doesn’t need that same bump to hold his seat of Grayndler (although the Greens are challenging in it). It’d be good to see him sic Husic on Turnbull, with a mind to Husic getting a higher profile through such a debate and bringing some fresh energy to tackle the Earl of Wentworth’s arguments. With Conroy being a bit tired recently, I’ve been itching to see a Husic versus Turnbull cage match for some time. Let’s hope Albanese decides to delegate.
Image credit: Office of Malcolm Turnbull
Well, that is chutzpah, Mr Turnbull.
You’ve undermined Mike Quigley, dissed him, threatened to give him the boot and all but pointed an ACME pistol at him that displays a flag: “YOU’RE FIRED!”
And now you’re complaining about the uncertainty about his tenure?
…says the earl of copper: albanese will eat him alive so buckle up folks and get ready to feel the geeeeeeees
How predictable from the Mr Copper!
Ed, go get him!
So Turnbull claims the take up rates for FTTX are an endorsement of ‘industry best practice’. What a twit.
1. ‘industry’ in this instance is private enterprise seeking to sweat the most out their copper and defer the costs of rolling out fibre over the last mile.
2. ‘industry’ has no interest in what will provide the most benefit to a nation as a whole.
3. NBNCo has a recognized business case that will pay for it’s own costs, costs that will be substantially less than if private enterprise were undertaking it (cost of capital), and requiring a lower rate of return. Attempting to compare a GBE with a private ‘industry’ is absurd.
4. In addition the network will earn additional ‘off books’ returns and benefits which are not available to ‘industry’ (general increased productivity and cost savings).
In attempting to hold back and retard the roll out of telecommunications in this country Turnbull is displaying his complete lack of understanding of the role Govt, GBE’s and his slavishness to the belief that the free markets are the B all and end all. Anything is anathema, no matter what the cost or the missed opportunities.
As for NBNCo being ‘in crises’? Welcome to Mr Turnbull’s world of FUD and rhetoric.
Not to mention he includes FttB in his FttX figures The basement is in the premise Mr Turnbull
The party and its pet project are in a mess. Tighten the screws and go for the jugular, Malcolm.
As apposed to the Coalition plan; keep crying wolf. I’m sure people will continue to listen, right?
Imagine being in the nursing home trying to convince your grandkids to come and see youbecause you votedfor their copper internet lol
Well I’d prefer face-to-face *hugz* ‘n *kizzes* from my grandkids than skyping them over the internet…. no matter how spellboundingly realistic the virtual 3D skyping. How about you?
Nice change of subject….. oh how lovely it is to not have to debate anything and simply pretend you didn’t understand the question!
Grandpa: “Hi Grandkids, will you tear yourselves away from your FTTP internet (upgraded from FTTN X years ago in a timely and cost-effective fashion) and come and visit me even though I voted for FTTN Y years before?”
Grandkids: “WTF Grandpa Clownface? What is this FTTP/FTTN? gibberish? You must be getting senile!”
The clever country that votes for copper when China is getting fibre and our minerals for nothing: yeh, the kids know what scammers you’ve been all your life once you tell em that! You’re too embarrassed to ever tell ’em that, lol! Every Liberal voter is embarrassed that they are voting for copper and in the same sentence trying to pretend they understand interest rates and Peter Costellos cosmic relationship with them and you know it ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!
“Copper is enough for anyone.” — DeepThinker, July 2013
No offence, but that’s up there, with the best of the painfully narrow-sighted observations of the past. Keep holding onto the hand-break, I am almost certain that is the way forward.
“(upgraded from FTTN X years ago in a timely and cost-effective fashion)”[Deepthinker, like two comments ago]
Deepthinker likes to make Joe Hockeyish assumptions it would seem! How the Murdoch media can live with itself by not caning Hockey for his dodgy accountacy fiasco is beyond the abortion bucket, seriously! What an absolute scamfest of a corrupt country this is when a once proud political party can have it’s accountants fined BECAUSE OF FIGURES PRESENTED AT A FEDERAL ELECTION and the media just pretends it never happened(–>never heard Johnny comment on that saga did ya now!). THEN,….imagine being a young liberal voter and only finding that little secret out after reading this comment?? You’d start rethinking your party and its support mechanisms- unless you had a reason not to of course!!
** Yeh, VOTE LIBS if you want to remain as pure as snow!!!
+1 nailed it
They can’t look their kids in the eye having voted for copper internet AND giving all the mineral wealth away for nought… lol, how many history books will be written about this absolute scam of a political party! Global political books will concentrate on this cabal: mark these words… it is absolute highway robbery and the world knows it!! The first thing written will be the fraudulence of their name!!
How is it giving mineral wealth away for naught if the companies long term IRR is lower than many competeting sectors e.g. banking / finance.
“Non-renewable resources”, buddy! Btw, has your favourite flawed psuedo-science learned how to account for externalities yet? In other words, has economics actually come to terms with what an economy is yet?? Libs are so weak and corrupt their leader can’t even stand up in defence of his wife…
@ Deep Thinker,
In case you have been away…
There was a leadership change in the government and the unquestionably likeable (to the voters generally) Rudd is back as PM.
Seems he is very popular (much more so than his counterpart) and the polls are already suggesting a much closer election result than under the previous leader.
“Seems he is very popular (much more so than his counterpart) and the polls are already suggesting a much closer election result than under the previous leader.”
Indeed Alex. As I mentioned in another article we are lucky that the coalition clowns decided to make this about personalities rather than policies. More people prefer Rudd to both Abbott and Gillard. Coalition played the man rather than the ball so Labor simply changed the man. Now rather than win by a landslide as predicted it’ll be close. The good thing is the proper NBN has a better chance now so I’d say it was a wise decision… I wonder if the coalition would ever do something as wise and replace Abbott with Turnbull, since they still insist on things like FttN there is an obvious history of supporting obsolete worn out things voters don’t want so I won’t expect much in either instance… Bring on the fibre!
Well said HC, if this keeps up the Libs will get the thumping!
ALP 51.5% (up 2%) cf. L-NP 48.5% (down 2%).
http://t.co/l6pTmtLHjz
Thanks for the link. That’s hilarious. Let’s hope it hits the mainstream media tomorrow.
“This week’s Morgan Poll, the second since Kevin Rudd became Prime Minister, shows another swing to the ALP.”
How many polls does a man need in a week? Who pays for all of these?
How many polls does a man need in a week? Who pays for all of these?
I think you’ll find it’s mostly newspapers, most parties conduct their own.
The problem is that senior ALP ministers wrote the attack ads for the libs.
I think Aussies are sick of the negativity feom Abbott tho so unless the Libs scrape up some decent policies they are shot ducks!
The sad part is how much you sound like an ALP mouth piece.
Which major policies of the past 6 years has the LNP opposed, compare this to how many policies the ALP opposed while they were in opposition.
Statistically the ALP is worse and they broke the bipartisan reform that was present under Keating / Hawke.
Just watch the news, every time you see him it’s “bad gov this”, “bad gov that”!
He never has any positive messages!
It is interesting that you say that.
The only policy that he has launched this year has already been the subject of an ALP scare campaign. This negativity is so one sided it is unbelievable.
The LBN is not a policy, it’s an attempt to defraud the Australian ppl and hold this country back by over a decade!
Turnbull has been advocating for his version for quite a while. It is not that new.
It’s still a 2nd rate plan!
Yes, so I would hav thought that the implication was that I was not talking about that would be obvious but since you have tunnel vision.
Two recent major scare campaigns were Julia’s threat about abortion rights and their ALP’s scare campaign about a return to work choices.
So both sides are as negative as each other, the problem is I do not think there has EVER been a government this focused on the opposition. That alone should say something.
N.B. Yes it was sarcasm Observer. I don’t know how it can be made more obvious.
… china is moving to fibre even!
‘This negativity is so one sided it is unbelievable.’
Love your sense of humour Michael. Oh wait, you are serious. Surely, you’re not. You can’t be.
What is really unbelievable is your statement. At the very least it has not been one sided. One thing is sure Tony Abbott has shown that he has turned negativity into an art form .
It’s not really a scare campaign when the results would be genuinely terrifying.
The only policy that he has launched this year has already been the subject of an ALP scare campaign. This negativity is so one sided it is unbelievable.
I think you’ll need to wait until there is a bigger sample size…one policy isn’t exactly a lot to go on.
Btw, this meme sums up my point nicely:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iybdvico6bkw4iu/2013-07-01%2020.45.12.jpg
That is true Michael…
But I think the general populous are used to the cut throat nature of political leaderships, be that the recent Labor circus or previous Coalition tussles Nelson/Turnbull, Turnbull/Abbott (although I don’t recall them being so hostile).
Remember too, the bitter Obama/Clinton nomination feud, back when… didn’t harm Obama in the end.
The worrying thing for the Libs if you can believe at least one (pretty unbelievable in less than one week) poll, is that Labor are now ahead two-party preferred?
http://t.co/l6pTmtLHjz – thanks djos.
So with the Labor leadership now sorted, a meteoric rise in both leadership and party popularity/bad polls for the opposition and a media (even a friendly one) needing fresh blood, guess who could be next?
You are right the people are getting used to leadership fights. But remeber, a leadership struggle is different in opposition to one when you are in power. The entire world was shocked when KRudd was removed previously. Now that we are used to it, is it a good thing? Questionable.
As far as the boost in polls, that shows they were not mistaken to return to Rudd. Now the challenge will be maintaining the “honeymoon period” or boost through to an election and converting it into votes. If you remember back JG had much the same effect when she took power but then….
And just about all of them are gone.
I don’t know how Rudd did it or if it was just good fortune, but all of the ALP-bred LNP attack dogs have been put down. Airing those quotes from ALP ministers will just bite the LNP in the arse. Just watch 27 June’s question time, Rudd’s first upon his return. The LNP did nothing but to attack the change in PM, nothing about policy – attacks that were ultimately ineffectual, impotent… limp, even. The LNP’s last two questions hit at policy (sort of), but still they were trumped, though it was not as much of a massacre. Rudd had an almost-scripted answer for everything, almost as if he’d worked with the LNP to prepare the questions – of course, that isn’t hard, when the LNP approach is so basic, simplistic and predictable.
And Rudd hit back hard with a glowing appraisal of Australia’s economic situation to counter the LNP’s economic scare campaign, and put a huge focus on Labor’s policies, defused the ‘carbon tax’ argument with the simple phrase ‘carbon price’, as well as attacked the LNP on their complete lack of policy and their negative, substance-less politicking. The truth of that argument was substantiated by about all of the questions fielded by the LNP themselves. It’s like Rudd gave them the shovel and they dutifully started digging their own graves.
The simple fact is, Rudd has proven to be the better communicator and the better politician. His time in effective political exile has simply sharpened him.
The LNP honestly has no chance now if they don’t bring Turnbull back to the leadership.
The problem is that senior ALP ministers wrote the attack ads for the libs.
I think the Liberal ad with Mark Latham attacking Rudd is the best thing they could have done….to help Labor…
It’s a bit more complicated than “Aussie’s like” JG/KR more than TA/MT.
The fact is that non-LNP voters HATE Abbott, and LNP voters LOVE him; the nation is divided.
Polling with quantitative analysis shows that 95% of ALP voters think Abbott is rubbish, with 84% giving him the lowest score possible. In the Greens camp, those numbers rise to 99% and 95% respectively. LNP voters approve of Abbott’s performance 85% of the time, with 45% scoring him with the highest rating.
http://www.whatthepeoplewant.net/polls-blog/april-2013/rudd-could-win.html
When you add the love/hate numbers together, you get the results for preferred PM;
Kevin Rudd: 48%
Tony Abbott: 49%
Unsure: 3%
All the ALP needs to do is shift tactics to play the ball, and ignore the opposition playing the man – because that will just be water off a ducks back for Rudd – to keep the preferences moving towards the ALP camp. Rudd choosing to call out young people is a pretty good start IMO too, because we tend to vote Green and give preference to one or the other (because all the other options are rubbish: PUP anyone??)
LNP voters don’t love Abbott: if there is one thing this blog has proven it’s that LNP voters are embarrassed of Tony ‘Dinosaur’ Abbott!
That site has Abbott 10+ points higher than every other poll I’ve ever seen on it (Morgan, News, Essential)
The problem with the methodology of this poll is that it starts with the wrong assumption and that is that the more engaged politically are more likely to be representative of the electoral when, in fact, those who are more likely to determine the government are those that have little interest in politics.
The second problem with the poll is that in trying to have qualitative and quantitative measurement it using a program which supposedly can identify, through the use of certain words, how people feel about either leaders or parties. This is highly contentious and again make some possible incorrect assumptions.
These two aspects probably explain their different results to other polls.
The problem is Dan being the most popular PM doesn’t win you the election, we don’t go into the election booth with the choice of just two boxes to tick: Which PM do you want?
The tw party preferred poll result is what wins elections.
“being the most popular PM doesn’t win you the election”
I can just image you with your eyes closed, legs and fingers crossed, pleading, whoever you worship, for it, to be so.
*two party
“go for the jugular, Malcolm.”
Are you suggesting that Malcolm is a broadband vampire and he’s trying to resurrect the dead copper network?!! Come to think of it, that’s actually pretty appropriate!
He needs a catchy sound bite though so he can match TA, perhaps “Stop the Bauds”? :o)
Of course Turnbull can’t answer any of these questions himself and would just bullshit his way out of direct questions or worse, resort to his infamous personal insults when he can’t refute facts.
Well of course Turnbull is going to slam NBNco and the deployment. They’re so incredibly incompetent, so hopelessly out of touch that Turnbull will continue to use them for Copper 2.0.
Yes, damning indictment that one. We all knew Turnbull would broadside the incoming minister; it would have been somewhat a-typical if he’d not!
I do not think “crises” means what you think it to mean. Albo and Husic will pin Malcolm to the wall.
I look forward to the new Ministers response. Unlike Tony Abbott, AA’s humour is actually funny.
The definition of ‘premises passed’ in the NBNCo’s corporate plan explicitly excludes premises where the end customer cannot order and purchase a service (service class zero). The targets are set by that definition, the results must be reported by the same definition. Anything else is dishonest. No competent project owner would accept it.
If the NBNCo is including service class zero premises in it’s actual figures for ‘premises passed’ then Turnbull has a very good point which Albanese should answer right away.
Let me see if I’ve got this right.
After a huge downgrade of the target numbers they published just months earlier, they might just slip in just over the bottom of the target range, but only by counting a large number of premises as “ready” that aren’t.
But somehow its not their fault, its all Malcolm Turnbull and Opposition’s fault.
Actually, replace Malcolm Turnbull with Telstra and Opposition with Syntheo and your spot on ;o)
@Gordon Drennan
Then there are ad hoc incentive schemes filed under ‘miscellaneous’ in the NBN budget, they are items they don’t need to be paid back apparently, unlike CAPEX, OPEX and Debt items do in the Business Plan, they help boost active connections though.
“iiNet Limited has reached an agreement with NBN Co for the sale of TransACT’s fibre-to-the-premises (FTTP) network in the ACT region,” iiNet said in a statement this afternoon. “The TransACT FTTP network covers approximately 8,500 premises with a further 4,500 premises planned or already under construction.”
http://delimiter.com.au/2013/05/22/iinet-sells-transacts-fttp-to-nbn-co/
“NBN Co has paid out just over $110,000 in credits to Australia’s second biggest ISP iiNet to encourage it to sign new customers onto the National Broadband Network.”
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/348101,nbn-co-paid-iinet-110k-for-new-customers.aspx
The last one is a classic, apparently customers who are quite content using in house DSLAM ISP ADSL2+ plans need ‘encouragement’ to get off them and onto the NBN.
This is the crucial infrastructure rollout everyone wants.
…. and to cap it all off as the crucial June deadline is passed, what do we see?
“More than 30,000 homes and businesses counted as part of the national broadband network are unable to order an NBN service, prompting criticism that rollout statistics for the project are being artificially inflated.”
http://www.afr.com/p/technology/nbn_co_accused_of_creative_accounting_YVAv0cdvM68MGRttnT9clK
My you just went to a lot of trouble to say a lot but yet, not say much…
:/
Don’t be harsh on him. After all, he does’nt have many like political soulmates on this forum who are prepared to accept unconditionally what he says.
Seems to me these service class 0 premises were always going to be an issue for NBNCo. Technically there’s no reason they CAN’T connect these homes physically, but because of MDUs or infrastructure not yet in place, possibly as a result of NBNCo. but also possibly not, they can’t be.
As CMOT said, they need to answer questions. And I’m probably being too lenient, but frankly, as long as these premises are dealt with in short order, WHILE the ramp up does actually continue, I don’t see an issue with them being reported as “passed”. I know, it doesn’t meet their definition. It DOES meet the INDUSTRY’S definition, but that isn’t what NBNCo. were using from the beginning. That isn’t cricket to now change it.
On Turnbull’s questions- sorry, I don’t care. Quigley will NOT be around long even IF Labor pull a quickie and win again. So the issue of if there will be a new CEO more than 4 years after he first became one (which is frankly astounding for a government entity) isn’t an issue for me. Other than the fact that I’d rather not see Quigley go because he’s been so adept at kicking Turnbull’s lies to the curb. But if he needs to go for the attitude to change to long term rollout, rather than quick startup and planning, so be it. I don’t have an issue with the fact that he may be being replaced. He WILL be replaced by Turnbull if they get in…..so I don’t really see what he’d whinging about….
As CMOT said, they need to answer questions. And I’m probably being too lenient, but frankly, as long as these premises are dealt with in short order, WHILE the ramp up does actually continue, I don’t see an issue with them being reported as “passed”.
I still say FTTB is the answer to the “difficult” MDU scenario, where either the construction of the building is problematical, or the body corp/managers are the issue. FTTB can still provide “up to” 1Gbps (or very close to it) depending on the wiring in the building.
How surprising! Turnbull attacking on the first day of a new minister’s appointment. Hoping to get an early advantage.
The things you have to do when you have an inferior policy. Instead of improving it, you try to bring down the better opposing one , hoping to make yours look better.
The 94b did get much recognition. Keep chipping at it Malcolm. Keep telling is about the free copper and the 20 year upgrade that won’t cost much. At least, it will bring some joy to you devotees and give them some hope.
Latest statistics by Point Topic show that there were 12 million new FTTx[1] subscribers in the past quarter compared to less than 1 million new FTTH subscribers.
WTF? I thought copper networks are rotting, decaying, decomposing, obsolete, too costly to maintain and at the point of collapse all around the world? This can’t be true. Must be a Murdoch News Corp conspiracy! I demand all world governments start reining in the free press and anyone publishing such lies and put them in jail!
Popularity does not equal quality. Example: the Twilight movies.
+1
KRudd’s a prime example!
Lol… touche` kentlfc.
** Yeh, go copper because I understand how money and interest rates and and and and… stuff works yehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Seems you have been away longer than I thought DT…
Yes obsolete… there is a better, newer product known as “fibre…”
Again… I bring to your attention (for you to ignore) your conservative colleagues in the US have heard of it and even agree with me (or should that be disagree with you and the Coalition here)…?
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/11/copper-wire-technology-whose-time-has-passed/
So imagine how much better it will be for all Aussies when you guys here “catch up” to your counterparts in the US and “catch up” to our current government here (well it did take 6 years for you to “catch up” to the current governments previous FttN ideas ;) by sending the old copper network off to the glue factory where it now belongs, with all of the other obsolete technologies, and get serious with this new “fibre”
Yes it’s interesting to see the ‘foxnews’ quoted when the occasion suits but pro Labor NBN supporters love to use the ‘Murdoch press’ when criticising Coalition policy or reasons why Labor polled badly.
It’s handy being able to sit on both sides of the fence.
I lot like Labor MP’s switching allegiance from Gillard to Rudd at a blink of a eye, don’t worry what was said about Rudd when they rolled him for Gillard, apparently he’s different now, especially when you need to look after No 1.
A) Murdoch said
B) Conservatives said
Now argue against everything you stand for….
And thanks yet again for the political announcement, but we are here to discuss comms issues.
Something amazing may happen. You may eventually realise that most people here do not give a stuff about what Labor and the Coalition do about their leaders. What they do care mostly about is that the current NBN model continue.
Not everyone wait for their political idol’s pronouncements to make up their mind about issues.
Your real problem is you can see that Labor might have a chance now that they have changed leader. I am sure you would have preferred for them to keep Gillard and get trounced at the next election.
As for News Ltd, they are trying very hard to do to Rudd what they were doing to Gillard. The problem is bagging an unpopular leader works. Doing it with a popular leader can have the reverse effect.
“Something amazing may happen. You may eventually realise that most people here do not give a stuff about what Labor and the Coalition do about their leaders. What they do care mostly about is that the current NBN model continue….Not everyone wait for their political idol’s pronouncements to make up their mind about issues.”
+ many Observer…
However having had my same (almost word for word – you’ve all been there) pro-NBN with evidence debates vs our friends irrational political crusade, for almost two years… something amazing, as you outlined, is most unlikely.
:(
“You may eventually realise that most people here do not give a stuff about what Labor and the Coalition do about their leaders”
Nailed it. For me personally labor or the coalition changing their leaders is not going to change my vote at all. Seems I am one of the few who can look past the personalities and prefer discussing the policies. However I can recognise why people prefer Rudd to Gillard and why people prefer Turnbull to Abbott. So obviously if one political party is having trouble with one leader then it only makes sense to change to one that the public find more palatable. Such is the state of politics in Australia unfortunately…
Nailed it. For me personally labor or the coalition changing their leaders is not going to change my vote at all.
Exactly, this time round the merry-go-round the ALP have the better policies, but who knows, maybe I’ll be voting Lib again next time round if they can put something decent forward.
I never said I was voting Labor Tinman, I just said a leadership change won’t change my vote ;-)
My apologies Hubert, I was referring to my own vote (this time), and agreeing with you in-principal generally
Sophie Mirrabella doesn’t like the libs being accused of needing Murdochs help to play(rig!) the game, that’s for sure!
Yeah, I saw that, she did seem a bit touchy about the subject, didn’t she…
WTF? I thought copper networks are rotting, decaying, decomposing, obsolete, too costly to maintain and at the point of collapse all around the world?
Not all the countries of the world used substandard copper like ours did…
http://delimiter.com.au/2013/05/20/is-fttn-vectoring-just-a-pipe-dream/#comment-610313
To legitimately make a comment like that you need to know (a) the quality of Australia’s copper which you don’t only Telstra does and they said it is ok, and (b) the reported quality of ALL the world copper which you don’t so you have some baseline to compare with Australia.
I assume therefore your response is meaningless.
Zombie horse much?
“only Telstra does”
To begin with, Telstra, as a legal entity, knows nothing.
People within Telstra may know some of the truth. Management, from the top down, may or may not know the true state of the copper network. This, however, will depend on how much then really want to know and how much they have been told. What they know, without doubt, is that they have given maintenance of the network low priority. They also have known for a long time that the network was on its last leg.
But on the scene, comes MT who needs a pretty close to pristine copper network for his policy to work. Well Malcolm, says Thodey, do you have just what you looking for. A fantastic, beautiful network that will last at least another 100 years. How much? Not much. How much will it cost to update it? Not much. So, let’s seal the deal.
To legitimately make a comment like that you need to know (a) the quality of Australia’s copper which you don’t only Telstra does and they said it is ok, and (b) the reported quality of ALL the world copper which you don’t so you have some baseline to compare with Australia.
Willful ignorance on your behalf, I was referring to the original gauge used (Australia/Telecom used a lighter gauge that many other countries), not the condition of the copper.
So “I assume therefore your response is meaningless.” as it was a response to something totally different than what you think you were replying to…
‘I thought copper networks are rotting, decaying, decomposing, obsolete, too costly to maintain and at the point of collapse all around the world?’
Please provide one example of anyone suggesting that copper networks all around the world are failing.
If you can’t, the next best thing would be to look for example of the truth. What people have said in that our copper network, you know the one Telstra has neglected for many years now, is a mess.
I hope you can distinguish the difference. If not, it may be time to rename yourself “Poor Thinker”.
That is uncalled-for. Deep Thinker has never specified what substance his thoughts are deep in…
Point taken.
Says to the person with 18 page plan, who doesn’t give numbers out for a 24/7 3 years deployment figures, no counting the price to pay for Telstra’s copper.
Why should our new communications minister “immediately” give you information, when yourself giving your country a great disservice?
1. No Deployment Plan.
2. No Migration Plan.
3. No Detailed rollout plan.
4. Limited information regarding MDU’ Installations and future upgradability.
5. Information regarding all costs, and possible delays that can result in more costs.
6. Your immediate demand of a Cost-Benifit-Analysis on your policy.
7. Cost to upgrade from FTTN and FTTH Policy Including the use of Fibre-On-Demand, or a separate cabinet to deal with GPON upgradability to resolve bandwidth issues.
8. Renegotiation time delays with Telstra/Optus and cost for that.
9. No regulatory information and or laws that may be changed to do your policy.
10. what happens if the delay in your rollout policy if it gets delays, to not meet your 3 year rollout?
There are others.
@Deep Thinker/@Observer,
Just because they have 12 million new subscribers doesn’t mean there are underlining issues.
I’d rather the NBN (fttp) be delayed by 10 years than waste money on FTTN rubish!! hopefully Labor will scrape in just one more term.
‘@Observer,
Just because they have 12 million new subscribers doesn’t mean there are underlining issues.’
Please don’t insult me and put me in the same bag as deep thinker.
Perhaps, you should re-read my comments. They do not agree, in any way, with his disingenuous statement.
Fear the the Internet Inventer.
Anyone but A bot.
I see Sydney Water is celebrating 125years.
Lucky Mr Turnbull & Mr Abbott weren’t around back in the early days otherwise we have water & sewage to the node! (a well & a public dunny). We wouldn’t have electricity & gas to our homes, we’d have energy to the node! (a community hall with lights, a TV, a cooker, a fridge, a heater/fan). We wouldn’t have home phone, we’d have telephone to the node! (a couple of phone boxes in your suburb). You wouldn’t have mailbox, you’d have mail to the node! (PO boxes for all).
We all know how much the coalition likes to share. Life at the Node would be pretty good!
Malcom? Did you see who used the last of my milk in the communal Node fridge?
So, Craig, you’re saying these people actually do believe in ‘society’?????????
Sam to Malcolm Turnbull: eat a knob.
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