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  • News, Telecommunications - Written by on Monday, November 19, 2012 11:18 - 89 Comments

    Just watch, Quigley tells NBN critics: We’re on track

    news NBN Co chief executive Mike Quigley has laughed off criticism of the speed of the rollout of the National Broadband Network’s fibre deployment, confirming it is on track for its December target of 758,000 premises being constructed, and pointing out similar criticism levelled at the deployment of Australia’s first telephone networks in 1909.

    Senior figures in the Coalition, as well as conservative media commentators have consistently criticised the NBN rollout over the past several years for the speed of its rollout. In one notable comment, Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull said in April this year that the rollout was happening “with the determination and velocity of an arthritic snail”. In August, when the Government released NBN Co’s new corporate plan, the company acknowledged it was six months behind schedule, due to factors such as the lengthy negotiation process involved in NBN Co’s multi-billion dollar deal with Telstra.

    However, speaking at a lunch held by the Sydney Business Chamber last week, the man in charge of that rollout, Quigley, revealed NBN Co was on track to meet its target of 758,000 premises where construction of the company’s fibre network has commenced or been completed by the end of December. In the current six month period, the company has nearly doubled the number of premises where construction has commenced or been completed (from about 318,000 to just short of 600,000 at the end of October). Delimiter did not attend the lunch, but we have received notes on Quigley’s speech from NBN Co.

    Separately, Quigley told the ABC in an interview on the sidelines of the lunch that although the project had taken some time to get off the ground, it was now starting to “hit its straps” in terms of rollout speed. “We’re feeling reasonably happy with the progress we’re making,” he said. “We’re aiming to finish the build of this network by mid-2021. That looks eminently doable and we’re quite happy with the way we’re progressing on costs. These kind of exaggerated claims you hear about huge delays and overruns really are not accurate.”

    The Coalition does not view NBN Co’s measurement of premises where construction has completed or commenced as the correct measurement for the deployment of the NBN, preferring instead to focus on the actual number of concrete premises where construction has finished, or the number of active connections where Australians have actually taken up the NBN infrastructure. NBN Co itself sees the premises constructed or commenced figure as being more representative of total construction activity across its network.

    However, Quigley also made the point in the lunch last week that those concrete numbers – activations and premises passed – would start to look very large in the June quarter of 2013, due to the fact that by that stage hundreds of thousands of premises would have been fully constructed – meaning that hundreds of thousands of Australians will have the chance to connect to the NBN with an active service. NBN Co’s corporate plan (PDF) forecasts that in mid-2013, it will have some 44,000 customers on new NBN fibre infrastructure, for instance – and a further 38,000 on wireless and satellite networks, plus 10,000 or so on fibre greenfields infrastructure.

    In addition, Quigley told the audience at the lunch, it was important to note that uptake of the NBN would start to skyrocket shortly due to the fact that it would start decommissioning Telstra’s copper network in most of the NBN’s early stage rollout zones from later this week – with some 25,000 premises to be disconnected in sites across Australia. This move is expected to force residents and businesses onto the superior NBN infrastructure, as public information campaigns are kicked off in the affected areas.

    Lastly, Quigley also told the audience that complaints and controversy – which have dogged the NBN project from the start – were nothing new when it came to these kinds of projects. The NBN chief quoted a letter published in the Brisbane Courier newspaper in April 1909, which referred to the deployment of telephone infrastructure by the government at that stage. By a concerned citizen who labelled themselves ‘“Engaged Pro Bono Publico’, it stated:

    “Sir, in my opinion there is only one way to rule out the question of excessive and prohibitive increases to the cost of the telephone, and that is to convene a public meeting to arrange to employ messengers instead of telephones. Enormous amounts of money have been foolishly spent by the department, and naturally, they want us to foot the bill.”

    opinion/analysis
    Most who follow the NBN debate know that the project is currently engaged in a race against time. If it can deploy substantial sections of its infrastructure by the time the next Federal Election comes around, it seems likely that a Coalition Government would need to proceed with the project as a whole, or at least maintain much of its premise and goals intact. However, if NBN Co is too slow and its rollout only hits a small fragment of the population, a Coalition Government would have plenty of evidence to claim that the project had not delivered and should be canned or heavily modified.

    Right now, evidence is growing that the project is delivering. NBN Co’s contractors certainly seem pretty confident that the construction goals for the initiative are not overly ambitious, and now we have new evidence from Quigley himself that the project is on track to meet the revised targets it set earlier this year. To many, perhaps most in Australia’s telecommunications industry, this will be welcome news, showing that this is a viable initiative by the Federal Government and that all the planning and debate which has been carried out on the NBN so far will not go to waste.

    However, personally I still believe Malcolm Turnbull is correct and that the only figures which really matter for the NBN are the ones referring to premises completed and active services. Those are the real benchmarks for how we measure the NBN; and I won’t feel completely comfortable about the project’s long-term future until both number more than half a million (to pick a big number out of a hat).

    Image credit: NBN Co

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    89 Comments

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    1. Simon
      Posted 19/11/2012 at 11:28 am | Permalink |

      “sith some 25,000 ”

      Should be ‘With’ im guessing?

    2. Posted 19/11/2012 at 11:28 am | Permalink |

      “sith some 25,000 premises”

      Darth Quigley. Or typo. Either, either.

      • tinman_au
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 4:54 pm | Permalink |

        That would be Jedi Quigley (his Sith mortal enemy is Darth Turnbull ;o))

    3. Posted 19/11/2012 at 11:35 am | Permalink |

      Fixed :)

    4. Soth
      Posted 19/11/2012 at 12:21 pm | Permalink |

      Now if you would most kindly stop by my house and roll that nice blue cable into it, I would be muchly appreciated :) Keep on rolling!

      • Posted 20/11/2012 at 9:54 am | Permalink |

        Final cable is green… :) That’s clearly an old picture…

        • Soth
          Posted 20/11/2012 at 10:45 am | Permalink |

          Ah cheers, all these little bits of knowledge all getting crammed into my head.
          Have to keep up with the times or get left behind! :)

    5. Dy4me
      Posted 19/11/2012 at 12:38 pm | Permalink |

      “)Personally I still believe Malcolm Turnbull is correct and that the only figures which really matter for the NBN are the ones referring to premises completed and active services. Those are the real benchmarks for how we measure the NBN”‘

      Did you forget that once an area is completed within 18 months the copper will be shut off? the take up rate will be close to 95% as people on copper will be forced onto the NBN. I know you like diplomacy, but running after the number of active services is pointless.

      • jo
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 1:17 pm | Permalink |

        Regardless, its still a valid argument. Its great giving us the information for houses where construction has begun but that number is largely irrelevant and is used so the Libs can’t properly compare it to the last plan.

        Also, NBNco is only predicting a 75% takeup rate. Apparently 12.5% of properties are vacant or have no internet connection and 12.5% will opt for wireless connections instead. Personally I don’t think the wireless number would be that high and NBN take up will be higher (much greater than 80%) but best to be conservative.

        • bern
          Posted 19/11/2012 at 3:27 pm | Permalink |

          I disagree, I think the number of premises where construction has commenced or completed is a key indicator of progress in this project.

          You don’t judge progress while you’re building a bridge by the number of cars that drive across it, and you don’t judge progress in building an airport by the number of departing flights. If you want to know how things are progressing before you’ve finished, you need to look at indicators other than the end result.

        • Karl
          Posted 19/11/2012 at 3:35 pm | Permalink |

          Actually I think commenced or complete is a very important number, because it is the number of premises that the coalition can’t possibly cancel.

      • damien
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 2:13 pm | Permalink |

        +1

    6. Geoff U
      Posted 19/11/2012 at 1:07 pm | Permalink |

      Hi Renai,

      Just to clarify…

      In your opinion section where you have stated your belief:
      “that the only figures which really matter for the NBN are the ones referring to premises completed and active services.”
      And that:
      “Those are the real benchmarks for how we measure the NBN”

      Regarding the “premises completed/connected/active” metric, do you agree that this metric is not at all an accurate or fair method to be used when measuring Greenfield sites?

      If one were to apply the “premises completed/connected/active” metric to Greenfields, the take-up/connected/activation rate could well stand at 0% for many, many months due to no fault of NBN Co or their subcontractors, even though the area has been deemed “Ready For Service”.

      Due to the aforementioned common situation where a new development can have fibre ready to go in all streets and be deemed “Ready For Service”, when the houses have not yet even started construction and could not possibly have active services until construction has been completed, 7-10 months allowing for construction time, after the area has been deemed “Ready For Service”.

      As a complementary question to the above, do you agree that Greenfield sites are, in fact, much more accurately measured by the “premises passed” metric?

      Keen to hear your response and/or discussion.

      Thanks,
      Geoff U.

    7. NPSF3000
      Posted 19/11/2012 at 2:21 pm | Permalink |

      “However, personally I still believe Malcolm Turnbull is correct and that the only figures which really matter for the NBN are the ones referring to premises completed and active services. ”

      Why?

      NBNco is engaged in the enterprise of rolling out infrastructure… the metric of completed and active services is a delayed subset of such. It may be an important metric… but the only one?

      In terms of political battle… again it’s not the only metric. Being able to say that you’ve got 100k connections and oh, these X Million [6000x365 = 2Mn premises, say 5Mn Australians] will be done within the year is also a pretty powerful metric when it comes to selling the project to the public.

      • Josh
        Posted 20/11/2012 at 1:20 pm | Permalink |

        +1

        It’s political. Labour want a big number. Libs want a small number.

        If the plan is X work by Y date then that’s the metric we should be interested in.

    8. Harimau
      Posted 19/11/2012 at 2:35 pm | Permalink |

      For someone constructing the network, the two figures most important would be number of premises started and number of premises completed.
      For someone providing services over the network and the one holding the bank book, the figure most important would be the number of active services.

      In terms of cost or more accurately ROI (which justifies the cost), the numbers important are those important to the one holding the bank book.
      But in terms of “roll out” speed (which is what’s being commented on here) then the numbers important are the same as those important to the one constructing the network.

      So you can’t just say “the only figures which really matter for the NBN are…” since the scope of that (the NBN) is much larger than the things being commented on here (the rollout).

      If you’re talking about the end result of the NBN, that consumers (i.e. we) are on the service, then sure, the two numbers you specify are important: completion (i.e. the opportunity to use the service) and active services (i.e. actually using the service).

      But I would argue that the latter (active services) has little to do with the /roll out/ speed, and the former (premises completed) is simply the same as “premises started”, offset by a few months.

      So in conclusion, for the NBN /roll out/ it is irrelevant whether you use “premises started” or “premises completed”. The only reason to use “premises started” over “premises completed” is if you want to be optimistic, while the only reason to use “premises completed” over “premises started” is if you want to be pessimistic. Given that it is in the nature of the Opposition to be openly pessimistic about the incumbent Government’s policies, and for any business government or otherwise to be publicly optimistic about its own activities, then it’s really just business as usual. At this point, it’s just preference. Pessimism or optimism, opposition or support?

      • Tinman_au
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:57 pm | Permalink |

        I think the main reason they report it the way they do is for basically marketing/political reasons, it would actually make more sense to report both as in 13,967 / 234754 (commenced / completed).

    9. Murdoch
      Posted 19/11/2012 at 2:40 pm | Permalink |

      With regards to the metrics of premises Ready for Service and premises actually connected, I’m of the opinion that neither could be considered exclusively accurate.

      Both are equally important, the Ready for Service ones can be considered potential customers, and the actually serviced ones the customers.

      As already stated, once the copper is disconnected the potential customers that transition into actual customers are very important, but until such time as this occurs, there’s really no single defining metric you can use to indicate the “completeness” of the NBN in these areas.

    10. Posted 19/11/2012 at 2:45 pm | Permalink |

      As Turnbull has pointed out, NBN Co has never said what ‘premises completed or commenced’ actually means … it could mean that someone has parked a truck in a street and put up some witches hats. Until NBN Co defines this more precisely, I will personally consider this statistic to be quite meaningless.

      • djos
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 3:22 pm | Permalink |

        Premises past would be a good measure and iirc thats the measure Verizon use for their FiOS network.

      • NPSF3000
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 3:27 pm | Permalink |

        “As Turnbull has pointed out, NBN Co has never said what ‘premises completed or commenced’ actually means … ”

        Excuse me? Who are you and where is Renai?

        “Contract instructions have been issued together with the initial Network Design
        Document (NDD) so that construction partners can commence work on the
        detailed design, field inspections and rodding / roping activities in an FSAM. This
        is followed by the release of a rollout map for the FSAM on the NBN Co web site
        showing the coverage area for that FSAM and the estimated number of premises
        to be passed / covered. ”

        http://www.nbnco.com.au/assets/documents/nbn-co-corporate-plan-6-aug-2012.pdf

        And from their FAQ [Can't find a better source off the top of my head]

        “On average, it will take 12 months from the start of the network rollout in a given area until people can connect to the NBN.”

        http://www.nbn.gov.au/frequently-asked-questions/#faq-id-18

        The Renai I know is for rationale fact based discussion, not pretending to be unbiased by agreeing with both sides. Repeatedly you’ve been ignoring the facts – the lack of a LNP policy, the actual policy ALP had in 2007 and of course claims like this one. WTF aren’t you double checking both your own and Turnbulls statements?

        • Zok
          Posted 19/11/2012 at 3:51 pm | Permalink |

          The Renai I know is for rationale fact based discussion, not pretending to be unbiased by agreeing with both sides.

          Unfortunately, Renai’s editorial policy quite regularly oscillates between being fully supportive of FTTP and openly debunking Coalition’s FUD statements on one hand, and on the other clutching at straws trying to present Turnbull’s comments as “policies” having “merit” or being a “credible alternative”. Nothing like a bit of controversy to drive traffic to the site, eh? ;)

          • damien
            Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:07 pm | Permalink |

            “The Renai I know is for rationale fact based discussion, not pretending to be unbiased by agreeing with both sides”.

            No, unfortunately this is true to form.

      • CMOTDibbler
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:25 pm | Permalink |

        I agree. Number of premises commenced might be of interest to some but it’s too vague to mean much. Number of premises ‘ready for service’ is the number I’m most interested in as far as construction goes. I would suggest that spending and revenue measured against the corporate plan are a bit important too.

      • ungulate
        Posted 20/11/2012 at 1:33 am | Permalink |

        Renai,

        I think you’ll find that NBNco regards construction to have commenced at the point at which plans are handed to their construction partners for detailed design.

    11. Posted 19/11/2012 at 3:53 pm | Permalink |

      It’s incredible that Renai is so biased and always flip/flops between one side and the other. It’s like he can’t make up his mind which policy is 100% the only one and holy policy which is the only perfect one. Can’t he get it straight in his head? Why doesn’t he just pick a side? What a loser. *sigh*

      • Dy4me
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 4:06 pm | Permalink |

        Now now, No need to be so hard on yourself. :p

      • looktall
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 4:07 pm | Permalink |

        well there is only one policy, so it shouldn’t be too difficult. :)

        • djos
          Posted 19/11/2012 at 4:08 pm | Permalink |

          +1

          What the coalition have is a collection of fairy stories and not very good ones at that!

          • tinman_au
            Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:16 pm | Permalink |

            At least Malcolm is willing to defer to the PC to decide his policy, hopefully he gives it wide guidelines to run under and not “this is how I want it, figure out the best way to make it happen”…and that they leave the current roll-out running while the PC decides.

            • djos
              Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:22 pm | Permalink |

              Yeah right!

              • Tinman_au
                Posted 19/11/2012 at 6:08 pm | Permalink |

                What can I say, I’m a “glass is half full” kinda guy :o)

                But seriously, he is on record as saying the PC can decide it, so he may have left himself an “out” in case he wants to actually continue with the full fibre roll-out (don’t forget, he’s put his own money in to FttH OS, and it was Tony that charged him with his current anti-NBN crusade, it wasn’t his own choice). I suspect the PC would lean towards FttH (being non-political, they’d be more inclined to see it like the “techies” do), though the percentage of where that would run to may be different to the current percentage mix for fibre/wireless/satellite.

        • Zok
          Posted 19/11/2012 at 4:17 pm | Permalink |

          Well, there are 3, actually… the Labor’s, the Greens’, and the Sex Party’s. :P

      • NBNAccuracy
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 4:12 pm | Permalink |

        LOL. I can see both sides.

        Yes, MT has outlined his a rough plan.

        The other side has a lot of merit too:
        Has he answered questions on coverage? No.
        Does he have the support of his party? Who knows? They contradict what he says regularly.
        Has he done any costings? No.
        Will he answer the hard or even slightly difficult questions? He either ignores them or dances around them.
        Would you buy a bridge from this man? Hell no.

        • Zok
          Posted 19/11/2012 at 4:21 pm | Permalink |

          You are too focused on the details of Turnbull’s “rough plan”. It is the quantity of his statements and his flair with the English language that count, not the fact that those details are inconsistent and contradictory. ;)

      • Posted 19/11/2012 at 4:18 pm | Permalink |

        What I object to is people who seem to feel I should switch off my brain and believe that one side of politics is always, 100% of the time, wrong on everything. That simply isn’t true … and I’ve been around long enough, and through enough government administrations, to know that it doesn’t take much time before the shoe is on the other foot …

        • djos
          Posted 19/11/2012 at 4:33 pm | Permalink |

          That’s not it at all Renai, most of us here aren’t terribly fond of the current Gov but the one thing keeping us from voting for the other lot is the NBN.

          Frankly you are waaaaaay too optimistic and diploatic when discussing MT’s “ideas”, calling then a plan really does the word “plan” a serious injustice. We know for a fact that MT’s plan is “his” plan and not the liberal parties plan – if it where the parties plan Hockey and Abbott et al wouldn’t be out there contradicting everything he says the Libs will do with the NBN if they gain power!

          • Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:20 pm | Permalink |

            “Frankly you are waaaaaay too optimistic and diploatic when discussing MT’s “ideas”, calling then a plan really does the word “plan” a serious injustice.”

            As I’ve said many times, there is a thousand times more detail in Turnbull’s plan today than Conroy had in November 2007 …

            • djos
              Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:26 pm | Permalink |

              Actually you’ve been proven incorrect on that just recently:

              http://delimiter.com.au/2012/11/15/budde-praises-coalition-nbn-plan/#comment-524989

            • djos
              Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:28 pm | Permalink |

              wrong link: :-p

              http://delimiter.com.au/2012/11/15/budde-praises-coalition-nbn-plan/#comment-524995

            • NPSF3000
              Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:58 pm | Permalink |

              “As I’ve said many times, there is a thousand times more detail in Turnbull’s plan today than Conroy had in November 2007 …”

              This is exactly the airy fairy feel good BS I’m sick off.

              Firstly: 2007 isn’t particularly relevant – goalposts have moved on since then.

              Secondly: Where’s the evidence? What has been presented indicates that the 2007 ALP policy is by far more substantial than sum of all coalition NBN policy in the last few years I’ve been involved!

              We aren’t asking for you to support one side over the other but to support ‘rationale, fact based discussion’ – something you’ve been lacking lately.

              • Posted 19/11/2012 at 6:45 pm | Permalink |

                “What has been presented indicates that the 2007 ALP policy is by far more substantial than sum of all coalition NBN policy in the last few years I’ve been involved!”

                Mate. I reported on Labor’s policy at the time. You can see my articles here:

                http://www.zdnet.com/labor-unveils-au4-7-billion-broadband-plan-1339274391/

                http://www.zdnet.com/conroy-scores-broadband-goal-1339274557/

                In no way did Conroy detail his proposal anywhere near to the level that Turnbull has to date.

                I am rapidly losing patience with your posts in particular. It’s OK to say something like “I don’t believe the Coalition have sufficiently detailed their rival policy”, or “I don’t agree with Renai’s argument that blah”. But the minute you start attacking me personally instead of the argument, accusing me of peddling “BS” and so on, is the minute you earn being banned from Delimiter for a week at least.

                The comments policy is clear:

                http://delimiter.com.au/comments-policy/

                Cheers,

                Renai

                • NPSF3000
                  Posted 20/11/2012 at 1:47 am | Permalink |

                  Thanks for that response, I’ll come back with a rationale and reasonable argument in the morning.

            • ungulate
              Posted 20/11/2012 at 1:56 am | Permalink |

              Renai,

              I studied Labor’s policy documents before 2007. Yes there was not a lot of detail. But what there was made it clear what their actions would be. Namely a process. Even then I could see that it was questionable whether anyone could come up with a proposal that would survive the 600 pound gorilla but at least we had something that could actually be called a plan. I actually liked it because even then I could see the real possibility of the government concluding they needed to build from scratch.

              Turnbull’s musings though they make consume a lot of paper if printed out (I never do this) are full of words that would make weasels sue for defamation. About the only thing concrete he has actually said “I would definitely do” is to have some kind of study.

              Indeed, you would expect more detail because whilst Labor proposed a process, Turnbull is (if you can believe the gist of his rantings) proposing a radical redesign. That demands hard core detail – timeline and process – and none is forthcoming. Mere bluster and warm and fuzziness does not count.

              The other problem here Renai, is the credibility gap.

              Labor proposed something that was at least believable in the sense that you could see it going ahead and completing in a year or two.

              Turnbull (again, I’m having to bite my tounge at this) were he to do anything like what he proposes, would be embarking on a torturous, 2 to 3 year process.

              Again, Renai, what I’d like you to do is to write an article about the process that would be involved in the unlikely event that a Liberal government were to do a redesign.. come on, you know it’ll be fun :)

              Then when you’ve thought about it for a while, then looked back on Turnbull’s words, you’ll understand the full meaning of “credibility gap”.

          • Harimau
            Posted 20/11/2012 at 12:15 pm | Permalink |

            Well, to be fair, it isn’t just the NBN. I think it’d just be genuinely concerning (God help us all) to have Tony Abbott as prime minister. I don’t think Julia is a very effective or likeable prime minister, but Tony seems like pure evil.

        • tinman_au
          Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:09 pm | Permalink |

          “and I’ve been around long enough, and through enough government administrations, to know that it doesn’t take much time before the shoe is on the other foot …”

          Ain’t that the truth….

          It’ll be interesting to see if Malcolm still thinks the Comms minister has “too much power” if his party wins government.

        • damien
          Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:16 pm | Permalink |

          “What I object to is people who seem to feel I should switch off my brain and believe that one side of politics is always, 100% of the time, wrong on everything”.

          No, that is just a straw man argument response to very valid criticism. You always conflate a preference for what is a very solid NBN policy (which happens to be a Labor policy) with unconditional support of the Labor party on all things. This is simply not what many people here are arguing here.

          • Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:19 pm | Permalink |

            “You always conflate a preference for what is a very solid NBN policy (which happens to be a Labor policy) with unconditional support of the Labor party on all things.”

            *stares* um ….. when have I ever done that???

            • djos
              Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:23 pm | Permalink |

              Renai, that is certainly the impression you frequently leave us with, even if it’s not put in those exact words.

            • NPSF3000
              Posted 19/11/2012 at 6:05 pm | Permalink |

              “”You always conflate a preference for what is a very solid NBN policy (which happens to be a Labor policy) with unconditional support of the Labor party on all things.”

              *stares* um ….. when have I ever done that???”

              Yeah when has Renai ever done that?

              I mean, it’s not like he ever said:

              “I think many people who read Delimiter would not be satisfied until I spent all my time slamming the Coalition and praising Labor. Frankly, I would prefer it if such people, who have obvious biases one way or the other, not read Delimiter.”

              http://delimiter.com.au/2012/11/15/budde-praises-coalition-nbn-plan/#comment-524976

              When someone asked:

              “How can any technology writer think that the coalition plan has merit without any analysis of the claims. Please show how the coalition non plan will be cheaper and faster given that…”

              • Posted 19/11/2012 at 6:40 pm | Permalink |

                Nowhere in there is there a conflation between support for the NBN and support for all things Labor.

                • NPSF3000
                  Posted 20/11/2012 at 1:38 am | Permalink |

                  “Nowhere in there is there a conflation between support for the NBN and support for all things Labor.”

                  Correct.

                  You did not respond to a question about the rationale and fact based reporting of the coalition policy with a statement about how you “think [that] many people who read Delimiter would not be satisfied until I spent all my time slamming the Coalition and praising Labor. ” [Emphasis added].

                  Sorry about getting confused.

                  • Posted 20/11/2012 at 10:24 am | Permalink |

                    hey NPSF3000,

                    FYI you have been banned from Delimiter for a week. Your latest comment was intensely sarcastic and I personally found it quite rude. It also attacked me personally. All of this is against our comments policy:

                    http://delimiter.com.au/comments-policy/

                    I’ll unban you in seven days.

                    Renai

      • tinman_au
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:07 pm | Permalink |

        Renai said: “It’s incredible that Renai is so biased and always flip/flops between one side and the other. It’s like he can’t make up his mind which policy is 100% the only one and holy policy which is the only perfect one. Can’t he get it straight in his head? Why doesn’t he just pick a side? What a loser. *sigh*”

        Don’t sweat it Renai, you know what those NBN fanbois are like :o)

        While “commenced” numbers are kinda interesting (along with “take-up”), but the only real numbers I’m actively interested in are those where a building has the “plumbing” done to where it can connect if the owner wants it. That’s the real “where the rubber meets the road” numbers IMHO.

        Is that a picture of Mike rolling out some fibre? The “I can’t believe they’re making me do this” look on the worker guy makes me inclined to think it is…

        • Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:21 pm | Permalink |

          Yeah that’s Mike. Not sure when I got that pic … lost in the mists of time. It would have been pretty early on.

      • Posted 19/11/2012 at 7:26 pm | Permalink |

        it’s ok Renai , the oatmeal understands

        http://theoatmeal.com/comics/making_things

        • djos
          Posted 19/11/2012 at 7:52 pm | Permalink |

          That is brilliant! :-D

        • Posted 19/11/2012 at 8:02 pm | Permalink |

          I do love that comic, and it is an excellent expression of all things content on the Internet … but it’s not really that applicable here. Journalism is not art; it does not require that much creativity, and it’s not like there’s anything new to see here.

          It’s pretty much the rule on every Internet publication that I know of: Criticise the argument, fine. Criticise the author and accuse them of bias or of manufacturing controversy? You get banned. Strangely, this is a rule that holds in real life as well ;)

    12. Gordon Drennan
      Posted 19/11/2012 at 5:54 pm | Permalink |

      Its hardly anything to be proud of that the takeup rate will only come up to anything even remotely approaching a commercially viable level thanks to the government using $11B of taxpayers money to shut down the existing copper. Any real business that engaged in that sort of behaviour would be branded as criminally anti-competitive. And criminally wasteful.

      I suspect a lot of you are going to be more than a little bit unhappy when you see how many people say “you’re going to cut off my fixed-line home phone? … ok, go ahead, I need my mobile phone and mobile internet access, but I don’t really need a ‘home’ phone any longer.”

      • NPSF3000
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 6:08 pm | Permalink |

        “Any real business that engaged in that sort of behaviour would be branded as criminally anti-competitive.”

        NewsFlash. Government not a real business! Read all about it!

      • Tinman_au
        Posted 19/11/2012 at 6:16 pm | Permalink |

        Actually, the $11 billion was for the ducts, Telstra still owns the copper.

        And “criminally anti-competitive” was how things ran before the NBN, which is also why the ACCC has had to step in to the industry so many times…

    13. Goresh
      Posted 19/11/2012 at 9:37 pm | Permalink |

      “However, personally I still believe Malcolm Turnbull is correct and that the only figures which really matter for the NBN are the ones referring to premises completed and active services.”

      At the end of the day of course, only real connections and real customers count.

      The problem for NBNco of course is the focus on rolling out the network to greenfield estates means that most of the work is being done where there are not as yet real connections to be made because the houses are yet to be built.
      This means that most of the premisis passed won’t become premisis connected for about a year after the rollout in their estate.

    14. Observer
      Posted 19/11/2012 at 9:41 pm | Permalink |

      The biggest problem with the debate on the NBN is that it has become politicised. As usual the first casualty is the truth.

      The bare fact is that to call the coalition a plan or a policy is showing a huge amount of charity.

      Imagine a salesman telling you that their product is better, cheaper, andcan be delivered quicker than the competition but you will have to buy the product before the salesman can give you any more details.

      If you are hesitant, he tells you that the savings could be two third of the cost but before he can commit himself he would have to talk to the owner the premises where the product will be manufactured, to see how much rent he will charge, before he can give you a firm price.

      However, he is quite confident that the negotiation will result in a cheaper price and won’t delay the delivery.

      Would you buy from him? Would call this a good business proposition or plan?

    15. Mr.B
      Posted 19/11/2012 at 9:42 pm | Permalink |

      Renai,

      NBNCo is not a service provider to the end customer – so why would NBNCo’s rollout be benchmarked and judged on the active connections of end clients when servicing end clients is the responsibility of the RSPs…

      NBNCo rolls out the infrastructure for the NBN, and as such, the only benchmark relating to the rollout of said infrastructure is how much of that infrastructure they have rolled out and whether it is meeting their stated goals.

      Mr.B

      • Abel Adamski
        Posted 20/11/2012 at 1:54 am | Permalink |

        Exactly, to use the roads analogy.
        NBN is building the National roadnetwork, from freeways, feeders, major, minor and residential road past the homes and businesses and the kerbing to the driveway of the premises, the isp’s now just have to sell the cars to the occupants. Some will prefer shank’s pony or their pushbike or motorbike.
        Whatever, NBN has done it’s job once the roads are built

    16. Abel Adamski
      Posted 20/11/2012 at 12:18 am | Permalink |

      http://www.zdnet.com/au/nbn-on-track-despite-major-data-issues-nbn-cto-7000007293/

      Not just data, but Telstra is doing a great job on fixing faulty pits and ducts

    17. daniel
      Posted 20/11/2012 at 1:07 am | Permalink |

      In my view it should never be about racing against time.

      This is a national project that needs to be respected and the Coalition & Media has no fault of their own ti dis the project like they have been doing for since 2007 When Labor was elected.

      Coalition had Howard years to try and figure out a policy that would work under their rule – but refused to do anything – now they are coming back and dissing everyone who is associated with the project – regardless if they are innocent or not.

      It is Labor’s turn to see if the can complete what Coalition could do not – and I think it’s about time that everyone stop playing politics over our economies future as well as our children.

    18. ungulate
      Posted 20/11/2012 at 1:44 am | Permalink |

      Renai,

      All figures matter.

      The problem we have is a political party adopting Republican tactics of spin, distort and lie on every single number they get their hands on.

      The figures regarding completed and active connections are important. The problem is they are also the easiest to use dishonestly.

      And the activation figures alone don’t tell the whole story.

      What you need to find out, and report, is the time series percentage activations broken down per FSA (or group of FSAs if they are activated together).

      Then then gives you some manner of predictive ability and some insight as to take up behavior.

      Activation figures that are agglomerated across older and newer activations simply make it harder to see the real trends, and also tend to do NBNco a disservice since this is also the easiest set of figures for the Liberals to lie (oops soory, distort and misrepresent) about.

      I hope you have a chat with NBNco and get some more detailed numbers. That would be great :)

    19. The lone gunmen
      Posted 20/11/2012 at 7:48 am | Permalink |

      Mr Quigley you have missed everyone of your own targets so far. Save us the words and walk the talk for a change. I am in Sydney and will not see the NBN for at least a decade, at best.

      I simply do not believe you, based on performance to date.

      • GongGav
        Posted 20/11/2012 at 9:07 am | Permalink |

        How do things change for the better under a coalition government?

      • Murdoch
        Posted 20/11/2012 at 9:08 am | Permalink |

        Koolaid for the LNP fluff that is their policy?

      • NBNAccuracy
        Posted 20/11/2012 at 10:32 am | Permalink |

        But then again you do not want to see it suceed anyway. It will get harder and harder to use statistics based around the Telstra deal delay and counting the years during the trial to try and hoodwink the public into believing the rollout is slow.

      • Observer
        Posted 20/11/2012 at 11:11 am | Permalink |

        “I am in Sydney and will not see the NBN for at least a decade, at best.”

        Poor baba, Come to think of it, you should be glad. Surely you don’t need it or want it.

    20. The lone gunmen
      Posted 20/11/2012 at 7:48 am | Permalink |

      Koolaid for the NBN fanbios.

      • djos
        Posted 20/11/2012 at 9:05 am | Permalink |

        Oh look, our favourite pet Troll is back!

        We almost missed your nonsensical rantings!

        :-D

    21. Soth
      Posted 20/11/2012 at 10:49 am | Permalink |

      Not sure if related or if anyone wants to know -
      http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/national/malcolm-turnbull-reveals-that-thousands-and-thousands-of-people-urge-him-to-set-up-own-political-party/story-fndo6axq-1226519952265

      Mr.T to setup his own party? Well if a cowboy can I don’t see why not :)

      • djos
        Posted 20/11/2012 at 10:58 am | Permalink |

        He would have to drop al the current Liberal BS and lies and setuo camp smack bang in the center to be truly competitive but he could do it imo!

        • Posted 20/11/2012 at 11:24 am | Permalink |

          Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. It’s a winning political formula, and one that no party in Australia appears to correctly espouse.

          • djos
            Posted 20/11/2012 at 11:32 am | Permalink |

            But not so fiscally conservative that he does a JWH and leaves all the national infrastructure to the private sector!

          • Brendan
            Posted 20/11/2012 at 1:26 pm | Permalink |

            Turnbull is center-right. Which makes him at odds with his own party.

            He, like Rudd, is well spoken, and tends to captivate an audience; however it’s very apparent he’s unable to gain traction within his party on Broadband topics.

            Which is why we only hear of “plans” and not “polices”.

            Mr Turnbull very much enjoys downplaying the rollout of the NBN. Of course he has to — it’s his mandate, as decreed by Lord Imperator Abbott, to destroy the NBN, — so we can hardly expect the man.

            Figures can be distorted; however right now we have an active project underway. It’s based on policy and a set of publicly stated outcomes. None of which Mr Turnbull has come close to matching.

            When Turnbull has an alternative policy, then perhaps we can measure current outcomes with it?

          • Tinman_au
            Posted 20/11/2012 at 3:28 pm | Permalink |

            +1

            I’ve been wondering lately if there might not be room for a new, more centre aligned party in Aussie politics.

            There’s too many right wing parties (even Labor has slide a lot to the right) at the moment, and the Greens, while they have some very good policies, are too left as a whole.

            A central aligned party that’s willing to plagiarise the sensible policies from the other three would do very well I think.

            • Zok
              Posted 20/11/2012 at 4:32 pm | Permalink |

              I’d love to see a credible alternative in a form of a centrist, liberal (as in non-conservative) party…

              But I am not sure that such a party would be supported by more than 5-10% of the general public. Judging by recent history…

              • just_a_bloke
                Posted 20/11/2012 at 4:49 pm | Permalink |

                I think “credible” is the key word here – the Dems were credible for quite a while and then they all lost the plot!

                • Zok
                  Posted 20/11/2012 at 6:10 pm | Permalink |

                  The point is, even when they were credible they never had any significant electoral support. Never managed to win a seat in the Lower House, and lost almost all of the support they had (as low as it was) with a single political “mistake” (as seen by general public, i.e. the support of Howard’s GST.)

                  There just doesn’t seem to be a “market” for centrist, rational, evidence-based politics in this country.

                  • Abel Adamski
                    Posted 21/11/2012 at 2:02 am | Permalink |

                    I will admit I was a Democrat voter – Don Chipp was worth the vote, they lost me when they went against their no GST platform (they had s record vote that year) Don Chipp would not have sold out , Meg Lees did

    22. drone
      Posted 23/11/2012 at 10:41 pm | Permalink |

      this is how they talk about rollout in the UK:

      “Meanwhile BT itself is busy deploying about 30,000 FTTC street cabinets, which should bring superfast broadband speeds of up to 80Mbps (Megabits per second) to 66% of the UK by Spring 2014 (passing 19 million premises).”

      http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2012/11/uk-power-networks-refutes-bts-claim-that-its-a-monopoly-in-the-fibre-space.html

      So what’s wrong with NBN using the term ?

      (BTW it is reply to this: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2012/11/bt-openreach-criticise-uk-power-networks-for-costly-fttc-cabinet-installs.html interesting by all means )

    23. James
      Posted 20/12/2012 at 2:02 pm | Permalink |

      NBN is a cash cow and some people at NBN know that. There are some people at top level at NBN that have secondary agenda. They have mates working for each other. Qui
      Federal Government is equally bad. . Coalition should stop NBN immidiately. I don’t any probem with my current internet with Optus. I have problems when I go to an emergency, when I have to wait for hours. Spend money where it is need the most. Quigley seems to be a good bloke but I am afraid he is surrounded by a bad team.Thanks J

      • NBNAccuracy
        Posted 20/12/2012 at 6:47 pm | Permalink |

        “There are some people at top level at NBN that have secondary agenda”
        “but I am afraid he is surrounded by a bad team”
        Do you have any evidence for this at all?

        “I have problems when I go to an emergency, when I have to wait for hours”
        You do realise the cost of the NBN isn’t from tax and is only a tiny fraction of what is spent on health? Stopping the NBN would not improve health, if anything since they are trying to reduce health care costs by using the NBN it would make it worse.

    24. Get Real Quiqley
      Posted 23/03/2013 at 10:41 pm | Permalink |

      How ridiculous does Quiqley look now, just 3 months later, after saying “we’re on track” that the NBN isn’t on track and is significantly behind in its forecasts. More lies which is understandable given the Labor government behind the project.




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