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	<title>Comments on: Abbott contradicts Turnbull on NBN costs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/</link>
	<description>Just Australia. Just technology.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 07:27:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TechinBris</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-524656</link>
		<dc:creator>TechinBris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-524656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Atomic Banana Universe, to me, is just a Fool&#039;s paradise. It might be fun to visit, but I don&#039;t think many would really want to live in it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Atomic Banana Universe, to me, is just a Fool&#8217;s paradise. It might be fun to visit, but I don&#8217;t think many would really want to live in it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Goresh</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-524359</link>
		<dc:creator>Goresh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 09:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-524359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Many in Australia’s technology sector have long suspected that there is a substantial gulf between Turnbull and Abbott when it comes to the NBN. &quot;

I believe that this is by design.

They want people to hear the message they want to hear in order to get them to vote for them and the reality is that people do indeed filter conflicting messages this way.
By promising diametrically opposed outcomes, they get  everyones vote and can deliver whatever outcome they want once elected.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Many in Australia’s technology sector have long suspected that there is a substantial gulf between Turnbull and Abbott when it comes to the NBN. &#8221;</p>
<p>I believe that this is by design.</p>
<p>They want people to hear the message they want to hear in order to get them to vote for them and the reality is that people do indeed filter conflicting messages this way.<br />
By promising diametrically opposed outcomes, they get  everyones vote and can deliver whatever outcome they want once elected.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tinman_au</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-524283</link>
		<dc:creator>Tinman_au</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 02:14:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-524283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think he&#039;s incapable of proper policy RocK_M, which is scarey.  He is good at opposition, but he has shown no skill/talent at all for what would be required to run a country as an actual Prime Minister.  Any time the interviews get off the Libs talking points of the day, he looks kind of lost and says some rather silly things.

Tony is just not a builder...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think he&#8217;s incapable of proper policy RocK_M, which is scarey.  He is good at opposition, but he has shown no skill/talent at all for what would be required to run a country as an actual Prime Minister.  Any time the interviews get off the Libs talking points of the day, he looks kind of lost and says some rather silly things.</p>
<p>Tony is just not a builder&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: TechinBris</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511626</link>
		<dc:creator>TechinBris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511626</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After reading so much from the Australian that was so lacking in reality and mathematics, I really wondered if I had woken up in the Universe of the Atomic Bananas. 
Hence, to stop looking at my ice pick so longingly, I ceased paying The Australian any credence in order to hold onto sanity and my ability to do mathematics that actually work for electronics. 
They lost their cred by their own hand. They now have an uphill battle to regain any cred in the market. It&#039;s only a Blüt Blatt now. If your into Noe-Con propaganda, enjoy! Just give me facts and I&#039;ll make up my own mind without being told to conform with what I am told. 
I am a center progressive. I believe in looking at history and not promises for making my decisions politically. I know we will all make mistakes, but if we learn from them, then that is good. But to consider to repeat the same mistakes again and again for the sake of a few people who did well out of it, that is foolishness on an unforgivably stupid scale. 
Australia once had a strong spirit of egality which helped us rise up to take our place in the world. Who clubbed it and trussed it up for sacrifice on the Altar of Mammon? I just hope we can rescue Egality before we all sink into a self absorbed civil war with each other on who can carve up the most for themselves at the expense of everyone else. I&#039;d rather humanity to prevail over wealth creation any day because one will help others whilst the other only kills.
If the current Coalition wanted to hold up a reasonable argument that made sense, then it might have a chance. But to go the way of the Tea Party has made absolute fools of themselves? It might be entertaining, but having a Village Idiot in charge of a Nation for entertainment value? Uuhh, no thank you!
It was the hard math that finally had me dismiss the current Coalition as a Ship of Fools. I have heard so much mantra to justify the Coalition&#039;s stance, but the maths lets it down every time. Please spare us, as there are few you will convince, as we&#039;ve all heard it before. We&#039;ve done the maths. 
But if you want to entertain, be original. Otherwise it is predictable and boring hearing the same thing over and over that has been discredited already in so many ways.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading so much from the Australian that was so lacking in reality and mathematics, I really wondered if I had woken up in the Universe of the Atomic Bananas.<br />
Hence, to stop looking at my ice pick so longingly, I ceased paying The Australian any credence in order to hold onto sanity and my ability to do mathematics that actually work for electronics.<br />
They lost their cred by their own hand. They now have an uphill battle to regain any cred in the market. It&#8217;s only a Blüt Blatt now. If your into Noe-Con propaganda, enjoy! Just give me facts and I&#8217;ll make up my own mind without being told to conform with what I am told.<br />
I am a center progressive. I believe in looking at history and not promises for making my decisions politically. I know we will all make mistakes, but if we learn from them, then that is good. But to consider to repeat the same mistakes again and again for the sake of a few people who did well out of it, that is foolishness on an unforgivably stupid scale.<br />
Australia once had a strong spirit of egality which helped us rise up to take our place in the world. Who clubbed it and trussed it up for sacrifice on the Altar of Mammon? I just hope we can rescue Egality before we all sink into a self absorbed civil war with each other on who can carve up the most for themselves at the expense of everyone else. I&#8217;d rather humanity to prevail over wealth creation any day because one will help others whilst the other only kills.<br />
If the current Coalition wanted to hold up a reasonable argument that made sense, then it might have a chance. But to go the way of the Tea Party has made absolute fools of themselves? It might be entertaining, but having a Village Idiot in charge of a Nation for entertainment value? Uuhh, no thank you!<br />
It was the hard math that finally had me dismiss the current Coalition as a Ship of Fools. I have heard so much mantra to justify the Coalition&#8217;s stance, but the maths lets it down every time. Please spare us, as there are few you will convince, as we&#8217;ve all heard it before. We&#8217;ve done the maths.<br />
But if you want to entertain, be original. Otherwise it is predictable and boring hearing the same thing over and over that has been discredited already in so many ways.</p>
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		<title>By: GongGav</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511617</link>
		<dc:creator>GongGav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 05:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I always took the term &#039;atomic banana&#039; to refer to the mystical technology that will make FttH obsolete.  As in, the fantasy land that LNP live in thinking that a step backwards to FttN was somehow justifiable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always took the term &#8216;atomic banana&#8217; to refer to the mystical technology that will make FttH obsolete.  As in, the fantasy land that LNP live in thinking that a step backwards to FttN was somehow justifiable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TechinBris</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511595</link>
		<dc:creator>TechinBris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 04:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511595</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[+1
Our Duopoly is very unrepresentative and has been so for a long time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+1<br />
Our Duopoly is very unrepresentative and has been so for a long time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TechinBris</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511594</link>
		<dc:creator>TechinBris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 04:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511594</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All Politicians are lairs. If anyone hasn&#039;t figured that out, well I guess they&#039;ll believe every promise the politicians make at the next election. LOL  Dumb and Dumber.
But then MT has greater intellectual capacity by far than Abbott, so that alone guarantees he will be a more convincing liar. Abbott still hasn&#039;t learned that soon as he uses his favorite 3 word slogans, it has us all scrambling for the buttons to go to ANYTHING else but listen to that moronic utterance again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All Politicians are lairs. If anyone hasn&#8217;t figured that out, well I guess they&#8217;ll believe every promise the politicians make at the next election. LOL  Dumb and Dumber.<br />
But then MT has greater intellectual capacity by far than Abbott, so that alone guarantees he will be a more convincing liar. Abbott still hasn&#8217;t learned that soon as he uses his favorite 3 word slogans, it has us all scrambling for the buttons to go to ANYTHING else but listen to that moronic utterance again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TechinBris</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511579</link>
		<dc:creator>TechinBris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 04:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh good greif!  What Right Wing Think Tank employs you? IPA?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh good greif!  What Right Wing Think Tank employs you? IPA?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TechinBris</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511557</link>
		<dc:creator>TechinBris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 03:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No it&#039;s not. Its called a full frontal lobotomy. You get and ice pick and you................
Never mind!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No it&#8217;s not. Its called a full frontal lobotomy. You get and ice pick and you&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.<br />
Never mind!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TechinBris</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511547</link>
		<dc:creator>TechinBris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 03:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511547</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can I power my house with an Atomic Banana? Or is it just for Communications? Though I don&#039;t know if I want a glowing banana on my roof or solar panels or and groovy looking Jetson&#039;s inspired antenna.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I power my house with an Atomic Banana? Or is it just for Communications? Though I don&#8217;t know if I want a glowing banana on my roof or solar panels or and groovy looking Jetson&#8217;s inspired antenna.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TechinBris</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511545</link>
		<dc:creator>TechinBris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 03:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511545</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[+1]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+1</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511144</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Just watch any interview and 90% of his speaches will be all attacks&quot;

Very true, However what is worse is the strong focus of the current government on Tony Abott. It seems that barely a day (not even week) can go by without the PM or a minister complaining or lampooning something the opposition leader has done. 

Why give him the legitimacy?
Why give him the oxygen?
Why not just promote your own achievements?
Since Tony Abott has no policies, If all he can do is negatively comment on existing policy his narrative would fall over very quickly without assistance from the government.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Just watch any interview and 90% of his speaches will be all attacks&#8221;</p>
<p>Very true, However what is worse is the strong focus of the current government on Tony Abott. It seems that barely a day (not even week) can go by without the PM or a minister complaining or lampooning something the opposition leader has done. </p>
<p>Why give him the legitimacy?<br />
Why give him the oxygen?<br />
Why not just promote your own achievements?<br />
Since Tony Abott has no policies, If all he can do is negatively comment on existing policy his narrative would fall over very quickly without assistance from the government.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511142</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are correct in that he does need to present an alternative. However, unlike some seem to think it is not his job to run the country at the moment. That is the ALP&#039;s. Malcolm Turnbull made himself the issue when the focus of attention should be on the party who is in control of the fate of the country, the government. If you think that the opposition is likely to become the government then that is fine. However, no matter what I believe that the people in power currently should be under much greater scrutiny than those in opposition (election time there is no one in government so it is null). 
It is not the job of the opposition to run the country for the government. It is the job of the opposition to hold the government to account and present a credible alternative. The government has access to vastly improved resources for policy formulation so it will have a natural advantage. However, that is not to say that the opposition should do nothing as that is not presenting a credible alternative. It is a fine line and it will always be very subjective. 

But valid point, in that view Turnbull and Abott seem to represent the two halves of what needed to be done as opposition leader. Tony is always on the attack (terrible reply to the MYEFO btw, absolute crap from him and hockey) wheras Turnbull was only too happy to play the government line and debate his own policy while the government policy flew under the radar (despite it being what was influencing the country). 
Kevin Rudd had the balance down well, but the situation was very different back in 2007 with a significant anti John Howard push.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are correct in that he does need to present an alternative. However, unlike some seem to think it is not his job to run the country at the moment. That is the ALP&#8217;s. Malcolm Turnbull made himself the issue when the focus of attention should be on the party who is in control of the fate of the country, the government. If you think that the opposition is likely to become the government then that is fine. However, no matter what I believe that the people in power currently should be under much greater scrutiny than those in opposition (election time there is no one in government so it is null).<br />
It is not the job of the opposition to run the country for the government. It is the job of the opposition to hold the government to account and present a credible alternative. The government has access to vastly improved resources for policy formulation so it will have a natural advantage. However, that is not to say that the opposition should do nothing as that is not presenting a credible alternative. It is a fine line and it will always be very subjective. </p>
<p>But valid point, in that view Turnbull and Abott seem to represent the two halves of what needed to be done as opposition leader. Tony is always on the attack (terrible reply to the MYEFO btw, absolute crap from him and hockey) wheras Turnbull was only too happy to play the government line and debate his own policy while the government policy flew under the radar (despite it being what was influencing the country).<br />
Kevin Rudd had the balance down well, but the situation was very different back in 2007 with a significant anti John Howard push.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511131</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 11:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Quote &quot;To give that some historical perspective; Australians do tend to give elected governments a chance to carry out their mandates. This is shown by the fact that a first term government has not lost a federal election since 1920-30s.&quot; End quote.


In the 2008 election (John Howard&#039;s 2nd) the Coal. regained Govt only by the number of bums on seats due a quirk in our electoral system. The majority of votes went to the ALP not the Coal. and their policies, including the GST. &quot;Australians&quot; voted for the ALP and their policies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote &#8220;To give that some historical perspective; Australians do tend to give elected governments a chance to carry out their mandates. This is shown by the fact that a first term government has not lost a federal election since 1920-30s.&#8221; End quote.</p>
<p>In the 2008 election (John Howard&#8217;s 2nd) the Coal. regained Govt only by the number of bums on seats due a quirk in our electoral system. The majority of votes went to the ALP not the Coal. and their policies, including the GST. &#8220;Australians&#8221; voted for the ALP and their policies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: RocK_M</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511047</link>
		<dc:creator>RocK_M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511047</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;He is a great opposition leader but not a good PM and would be better suited to chief attack dog role.&quot;

Going to have to respectfully disagree on the first part. As an opposition leader being an attack dog is only half his role.

The other part is to convince us that their alternative policies are better than existing ones. This not only requires criticism of the status quo but showing alternates and policies. So far all we&#039;ve seen is the attack dog part and none of the latter. Any questions on how the Opposition policies would be better usually end up as a misdirection via an attack on the status quo as opposed to showing any policies/plans

Just watch any interview and 90% of his speaches will be all attacks on the either immigration or carbon tax and barely any specifics on their alternative besides going the &quot;we&#039;re stopping what their doing and since their inherently bad we&#039;re better already&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He is a great opposition leader but not a good PM and would be better suited to chief attack dog role.&#8221;</p>
<p>Going to have to respectfully disagree on the first part. As an opposition leader being an attack dog is only half his role.</p>
<p>The other part is to convince us that their alternative policies are better than existing ones. This not only requires criticism of the status quo but showing alternates and policies. So far all we&#8217;ve seen is the attack dog part and none of the latter. Any questions on how the Opposition policies would be better usually end up as a misdirection via an attack on the status quo as opposed to showing any policies/plans</p>
<p>Just watch any interview and 90% of his speaches will be all attacks on the either immigration or carbon tax and barely any specifics on their alternative besides going the &#8220;we&#8217;re stopping what their doing and since their inherently bad we&#8217;re better already&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RocK_M</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-511044</link>
		<dc:creator>RocK_M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 08:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-511044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Honestly not surprised... it doesn&#039;t matter what topic it will be Abbott will with out pause link it to 
&quot;DEY TUK YER JAWBS! ILLEGAL IMMIGANTS!&quot; and &quot;CARBON TAX ONOZ!&quot;

It&#039;s like listening to a broken record.

Just for once I would love to have him surprise me and answer back w/ a *proper* policy. on *ANYTHING*]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly not surprised&#8230; it doesn&#8217;t matter what topic it will be Abbott will with out pause link it to<br />
&#8220;DEY TUK YER JAWBS! ILLEGAL IMMIGANTS!&#8221; and &#8220;CARBON TAX ONOZ!&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like listening to a broken record.</p>
<p>Just for once I would love to have him surprise me and answer back w/ a *proper* policy. on *ANYTHING*</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-510976</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 06:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-510976</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But isn&#039;t it a reference to an XKCD comic which was about the relatively tiny amounts of radiation that are often misrepresented in the press as being dangerous?

http://xkcd.com/radiation/

See the top left of the chart for radiation from a banana. Which is to say all bananas are atomic and but the issue is minuscule. So surely an atomic banana would be an issue blown well out of proportion?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But isn&#8217;t it a reference to an XKCD comic which was about the relatively tiny amounts of radiation that are often misrepresented in the press as being dangerous?</p>
<p><a href="http://xkcd.com/radiation/" rel="nofollow">http://xkcd.com/radiation/</a></p>
<p>See the top left of the chart for radiation from a banana. Which is to say all bananas are atomic and but the issue is minuscule. So surely an atomic banana would be an issue blown well out of proportion?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-510973</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 06:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-510973</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[+1 also.
The party system is a great way of making our parliament an unrepresentative duopoly. It serves those in the parties, a continually diminishing group who seek power, and not the citizens of Australia.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+1 also.<br />
The party system is a great way of making our parliament an unrepresentative duopoly. It serves those in the parties, a continually diminishing group who seek power, and not the citizens of Australia.</p>
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		<title>By: NBNAlex</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-510932</link>
		<dc:creator>NBNAlex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 04:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-510932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What you fail to realise imo Michael, is...

Most if not all the if&#039;s have been already ironed out by NBNCo and it&#039;s time to ramp up. Whereas by going to FttN all the if&#039;s and subsequent lost time, all starts over again.

Shall we estimate 6 months for the promised CBA? 

2 years to nut out a deal with Telstra?

And how long to deal with the ACCC/Courts as all of the other angry ISP&#039;s refuse to cop a bar of Telstra being handed the keys to Australia&#039;s comms once again... months, years.

But back on track let&#039;s suggest 3 years minimum from the time the Coalition start government to the time they are ready to then start amassing a new NBNCo to oversee. So again, by the time they are ready, what another 6-12 months.

My goodness by the time they actually start doing anything it could well be 2018 and if those initial areas too, like the NBN, are only pilot sites, by the time they start actuals, the NBN would/will have been completed or thereabouts:/

Perhaps that&#039;s the Coalition&#039;s plan, to leave everything stalled and stagnating... up in the air ad infinitum ...!

This may be a quickly mapped out scenario, but it basically shows a rough guide, imo.

So before people decide well let&#039;s just go FttN because it&#039;s cheaper (initially perhaps) and quicker to roll out (not necessarily when external factors govern your destiny - as NBNCo found out with their 9 month Telstra deal delay) and when all plans are back to the drawing board... so let&#039;s just roll out the NBN eh?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you fail to realise imo Michael, is&#8230;</p>
<p>Most if not all the if&#8217;s have been already ironed out by NBNCo and it&#8217;s time to ramp up. Whereas by going to FttN all the if&#8217;s and subsequent lost time, all starts over again.</p>
<p>Shall we estimate 6 months for the promised CBA? </p>
<p>2 years to nut out a deal with Telstra?</p>
<p>And how long to deal with the ACCC/Courts as all of the other angry ISP&#8217;s refuse to cop a bar of Telstra being handed the keys to Australia&#8217;s comms once again&#8230; months, years.</p>
<p>But back on track let&#8217;s suggest 3 years minimum from the time the Coalition start government to the time they are ready to then start amassing a new NBNCo to oversee. So again, by the time they are ready, what another 6-12 months.</p>
<p>My goodness by the time they actually start doing anything it could well be 2018 and if those initial areas too, like the NBN, are only pilot sites, by the time they start actuals, the NBN would/will have been completed or thereabouts:/</p>
<p>Perhaps that&#8217;s the Coalition&#8217;s plan, to leave everything stalled and stagnating&#8230; up in the air ad infinitum &#8230;!</p>
<p>This may be a quickly mapped out scenario, but it basically shows a rough guide, imo.</p>
<p>So before people decide well let&#8217;s just go FttN because it&#8217;s cheaper (initially perhaps) and quicker to roll out (not necessarily when external factors govern your destiny &#8211; as NBNCo found out with their 9 month Telstra deal delay) and when all plans are back to the drawing board&#8230; so let&#8217;s just roll out the NBN eh?</p>
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		<title>By: delphi</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/10/21/abbott-contradicts-turnbull-on-nbn-costs/#comment-510896</link>
		<dc:creator>delphi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2012 04:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=138284#comment-510896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[-&quot;I am disputing her mandate to set a fixed price for the first three years

The only difference between Gillard&#039;s ETS and Rudd&#039;s plan (or Howard&#039;s before) is that the fixed price period is 3 years rather than 1 - but the type of remains the same: fixed-price ETS (Carbon Tax is structured completely differently).  Somehow no-one called Howard&#039;s fixed-price a &#039;carbon tax&#039;. Gillard, in many pre-election interviews, explicitly said she will implement an ETS and that&#039;s what she&#039;s done.

-&quot;The permits are non-tradable.&quot;

False. *Some* permits are non-tradeble.

-&quot;There is no room fixed supply of permits, just a fixed price.&quot;

False. *Some* permits, in the initial phase, are issued for free and are limited in numbers - these are fully tradeable - ie can be sold and bought for profit:


First carbon permits issued as emissions market dawns September 28, 2012
( http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/first-carbon-permits-issued-as-emissions-market-dawns-20120927-26o0w.html#ixzz27p5GpWDj )

&#039;CARBON trading has officially begun in Australia, with the government yesterday issuing the first permits under its carbon price.

The issue of the permits is significant because it marks the point at which carbon permits start to be bought and sold among the roughly 300 companies that pay the carbon price.

The companies can use the permits to cover the tonnage of carbon they emit. But crucially, if they reduce their carbon emissions, they can sell the leftover permits for a profit&#039;

-&quot;This is a carbon tax initially.&quot;
False - it&#039;s a 1 year fixed-price ETS. Completely different structure. The fact a (limited) emssions trading ma market started operating already, shows Abbott&#039;s &#039;carbon tax&#039; mantra, finally, being a completely bogus one...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-&#8221;I am disputing her mandate to set a fixed price for the first three years</p>
<p>The only difference between Gillard&#8217;s ETS and Rudd&#8217;s plan (or Howard&#8217;s before) is that the fixed price period is 3 years rather than 1 &#8211; but the type of remains the same: fixed-price ETS (Carbon Tax is structured completely differently).  Somehow no-one called Howard&#8217;s fixed-price a &#8216;carbon tax&#8217;. Gillard, in many pre-election interviews, explicitly said she will implement an ETS and that&#8217;s what she&#8217;s done.</p>
<p>-&#8221;The permits are non-tradable.&#8221;</p>
<p>False. *Some* permits are non-tradeble.</p>
<p>-&#8221;There is no room fixed supply of permits, just a fixed price.&#8221;</p>
<p>False. *Some* permits, in the initial phase, are issued for free and are limited in numbers &#8211; these are fully tradeable &#8211; ie can be sold and bought for profit:</p>
<p>First carbon permits issued as emissions market dawns September 28, 2012<br />
( <a href="http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/first-carbon-permits-issued-as-emissions-market-dawns-20120927-26o0w.html#ixzz27p5GpWDj" rel="nofollow">http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/first-carbon-permits-issued-as-emissions-market-dawns-20120927-26o0w.html#ixzz27p5GpWDj</a> )</p>
<p>&#8216;CARBON trading has officially begun in Australia, with the government yesterday issuing the first permits under its carbon price.</p>
<p>The issue of the permits is significant because it marks the point at which carbon permits start to be bought and sold among the roughly 300 companies that pay the carbon price.</p>
<p>The companies can use the permits to cover the tonnage of carbon they emit. But crucially, if they reduce their carbon emissions, they can sell the leftover permits for a profit&#8217;</p>
<p>-&#8221;This is a carbon tax initially.&#8221;<br />
False &#8211; it&#8217;s a 1 year fixed-price ETS. Completely different structure. The fact a (limited) emssions trading ma market started operating already, shows Abbott&#8217;s &#8216;carbon tax&#8217; mantra, finally, being a completely bogus one&#8230;</p>
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