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	<title>Comments on: IT price hike inquiry may subpoena rebel vendors</title>
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	<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/</link>
	<description>Just Australia. Just technology.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 10:48:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-497061</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2012 01:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-497061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think you&#039;re assuming that the FTA has anything in it that might be advantageous to Australia.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re assuming that the FTA has anything in it that might be advantageous to Australia.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-497056</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2012 00:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-497056</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, we can start with the US DoJ vs. Microsoft, as well as the EU actions.

Private enterprise tends towards monopoly without government intervention.  Private enterprise is not there for the consumer, it is a parasite.  It does not care about people.

But if you&#039;d like to live in Dickensian England, that&#039;s the best example to date of &quot;free markets&quot;.

Adobe, Microsoft etc. have to the extent that governments have permitted them to do so tried to tie customers to their products.  Microsoft has spent decades trying to hold on to proprietary file formats so that if you want to view their files you must use their product.  Unfortunately for them, legislators have seen how bad this is for consumers.  So they rely on whatever they can get away with, and tie customers in however they can.  If Adobe is an industry standard, then there is no point your company using something different even if Adobe costs you double what your competitors pay.

I agree with you that government needs to understand why it is demanding something (and this conflates with the current discussion about data retention), but government continues to have a role on behalf of the consumer.

The coal seam gas debate is a different discussion, and yes farmers are getting screwed.  On the TPP, my thoughts align with those of the authors of &quot;Against Intellectual Monopoly&quot; (http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstnew.htm).

But government must have a role, because consumers continue to get screwed otherwise - the problem is when government thinks its role is to promote business rather than people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, we can start with the US DoJ vs. Microsoft, as well as the EU actions.</p>
<p>Private enterprise tends towards monopoly without government intervention.  Private enterprise is not there for the consumer, it is a parasite.  It does not care about people.</p>
<p>But if you&#8217;d like to live in Dickensian England, that&#8217;s the best example to date of &#8220;free markets&#8221;.</p>
<p>Adobe, Microsoft etc. have to the extent that governments have permitted them to do so tried to tie customers to their products.  Microsoft has spent decades trying to hold on to proprietary file formats so that if you want to view their files you must use their product.  Unfortunately for them, legislators have seen how bad this is for consumers.  So they rely on whatever they can get away with, and tie customers in however they can.  If Adobe is an industry standard, then there is no point your company using something different even if Adobe costs you double what your competitors pay.</p>
<p>I agree with you that government needs to understand why it is demanding something (and this conflates with the current discussion about data retention), but government continues to have a role on behalf of the consumer.</p>
<p>The coal seam gas debate is a different discussion, and yes farmers are getting screwed.  On the TPP, my thoughts align with those of the authors of &#8220;Against Intellectual Monopoly&#8221; (<a href="http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstnew.htm" rel="nofollow">http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/againstnew.htm</a>).</p>
<p>But government must have a role, because consumers continue to get screwed otherwise &#8211; the problem is when government thinks its role is to promote business rather than people.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-497037</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 23:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-497037</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Doesn&#039;t the AUS/US FTA state that there are to be no barriers preventing access to US businesses? Shouldn&#039;t this mean that geo-locking content is in breach of this agreement?

In response to those shouting &quot;Price CAP!!&quot; from the rooftops, perhaps our gov&#039;t could simply make it illegal to geo-lock or geo-locate (By IP Address) Australian citizens. We would then be free to purchase from the same website&#039;s for the same prices paid by US citizens.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t the AUS/US FTA state that there are to be no barriers preventing access to US businesses? Shouldn&#8217;t this mean that geo-locking content is in breach of this agreement?</p>
<p>In response to those shouting &#8220;Price CAP!!&#8221; from the rooftops, perhaps our gov&#8217;t could simply make it illegal to geo-lock or geo-locate (By IP Address) Australian citizens. We would then be free to purchase from the same website&#8217;s for the same prices paid by US citizens.</p>
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		<title>By: SBD</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496979</link>
		<dc:creator>SBD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496979</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Which leads to the question, why should the Australian Gov support the copyright claims by these same companies.  
They are charging Australians unfairly (as evidenced by them submitting no evidence to the contrary), and want to cry about piracy and lobby for change our laws to protect their interests.  
Fuse the two agendas, &quot;Shaft aussies and get shafted&quot;, or &quot;play fair and demand fair treatment&quot;, no mix n match allowed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which leads to the question, why should the Australian Gov support the copyright claims by these same companies.<br />
They are charging Australians unfairly (as evidenced by them submitting no evidence to the contrary), and want to cry about piracy and lobby for change our laws to protect their interests.<br />
Fuse the two agendas, &#8220;Shaft aussies and get shafted&#8221;, or &#8220;play fair and demand fair treatment&#8221;, no mix n match allowed.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy Andy Pandy Bolt</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496945</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Andy Pandy Bolt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Noooo they are not &quot;baffling  circumstances&quot; as to why they are not appearing in parliament...

They are avoiding public accountablity - going on record, and trying to bullshit their way out of being a pack of thieving lying, scheming cunts - who act with unconscionable conduct - to scam the consumer. 

That is it in a fucking nutshell.

Captive Audience + Monopolistic Practices = Price Gouging.

Fuck them - kick them all in their cunts and nuts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noooo they are not &#8220;baffling  circumstances&#8221; as to why they are not appearing in parliament&#8230;</p>
<p>They are avoiding public accountablity &#8211; going on record, and trying to bullshit their way out of being a pack of thieving lying, scheming cunts &#8211; who act with unconscionable conduct &#8211; to scam the consumer. </p>
<p>That is it in a fucking nutshell.</p>
<p>Captive Audience + Monopolistic Practices = Price Gouging.</p>
<p>Fuck them &#8211; kick them all in their cunts and nuts.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496932</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Stephen for your observations. Nope, hate and vitriol is about it. It comes with age. 

What solutions or successful examples do you have of a government entering a free market to force what is in effect a price cap? For that is what Mr Husic is trying to achieve. He is offering no reductions in the cost of labour, distribution, taxation or regulatory obligations. Just a demand that the price be lowered.

No, it is not off topic, it gets back to the question of ownership. Adobe, Microsoft or whomever own their products. They get to choose the terms of the sale and the price that they offer to the market. As consumers we get to choose to purchase or not. My Husic is confusing that model of ownership with the Australian model where no one owns anything, everything is subject to the whims of a government. Coal Seam Gas is an excellent example of this conflict whereby farmers own their land, have paid for it and have worked it yet have no say if a more affluent lobbying body desires it. Taxation is another example where governments confuse the concept of ownership - read some of Thomas Jefferson&#039;s thoughts on the matter. The TPP also highlights the conflict within government of this concept of ownership and the role of government in protecting it - for some but not for others. Ultimately Mr Husic is full of bluff and bluster and will have little effect but as a play to the cheap seats.

I would be delighted to hear in more detail your response to my views of government vs the private sector. I am pretty sure that I have basic economics behind me as well as examples from the history of Soviet era socialism. But if you can see perhaps a third way then I would be most interested to listen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Stephen for your observations. Nope, hate and vitriol is about it. It comes with age. </p>
<p>What solutions or successful examples do you have of a government entering a free market to force what is in effect a price cap? For that is what Mr Husic is trying to achieve. He is offering no reductions in the cost of labour, distribution, taxation or regulatory obligations. Just a demand that the price be lowered.</p>
<p>No, it is not off topic, it gets back to the question of ownership. Adobe, Microsoft or whomever own their products. They get to choose the terms of the sale and the price that they offer to the market. As consumers we get to choose to purchase or not. My Husic is confusing that model of ownership with the Australian model where no one owns anything, everything is subject to the whims of a government. Coal Seam Gas is an excellent example of this conflict whereby farmers own their land, have paid for it and have worked it yet have no say if a more affluent lobbying body desires it. Taxation is another example where governments confuse the concept of ownership &#8211; read some of Thomas Jefferson&#8217;s thoughts on the matter. The TPP also highlights the conflict within government of this concept of ownership and the role of government in protecting it &#8211; for some but not for others. Ultimately Mr Husic is full of bluff and bluster and will have little effect but as a play to the cheap seats.</p>
<p>I would be delighted to hear in more detail your response to my views of government vs the private sector. I am pretty sure that I have basic economics behind me as well as examples from the history of Soviet era socialism. But if you can see perhaps a third way then I would be most interested to listen.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496928</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you have anything other than hate and vitriol?

You are also off-topic, or I would respond in more detail to your laughable &quot;ideas&quot; of government vs. private sector.

And you misspelt &quot;seam&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you have anything other than hate and vitriol?</p>
<p>You are also off-topic, or I would respond in more detail to your laughable &#8220;ideas&#8221; of government vs. private sector.</p>
<p>And you misspelt &#8220;seam&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496914</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 11:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496914</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[some suppliers are “treating the Parliament with contempt”. Duh! Of course they are, we all are. Parliament has shown itself to be a contemptible place. If parliament endorses the TPP granting even more rights to corporations to move about the world unchallenged then it will be even more two faced and contemptible. Where are we on releasing drafts of the TPP for public discussion Mr Husic? 

Ultimately the purchasing decisions (Oz tax and all) are the product of a marketplace involving grown ups entering into a contract or not. Parliament has no place and little power in such an environment and should go back to important issues like mandatory plastic hats for bicycle riders or rewarding its minions with even greater powers as a measure of its otherwise impotent glory. 

Coal Seem Gas extraction highlights what is wrong with this country, no one actually owns anything - everything is subject to government fiat. The reward for hard work and success is taxation and possibly total forfeiture to government. Who would invest in anything but the most basic structures in such an environment. 

If Mr Husic really wants to change the game then he should campaign for SUBSTANTIAL reductions in government so we can be free of the real Oz Tax, the work for the dole scheme which is our public sector and the drag on investment and innovation that it represents. Perhaps even a bill of rights and a note on private ownership. Maybe one day if we are not all working to support our sponsored public servant then we might have time to write our own autocad or (heaven forbid) windows. Then we could charge whatever we liked in other countries.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>some suppliers are “treating the Parliament with contempt”. Duh! Of course they are, we all are. Parliament has shown itself to be a contemptible place. If parliament endorses the TPP granting even more rights to corporations to move about the world unchallenged then it will be even more two faced and contemptible. Where are we on releasing drafts of the TPP for public discussion Mr Husic? </p>
<p>Ultimately the purchasing decisions (Oz tax and all) are the product of a marketplace involving grown ups entering into a contract or not. Parliament has no place and little power in such an environment and should go back to important issues like mandatory plastic hats for bicycle riders or rewarding its minions with even greater powers as a measure of its otherwise impotent glory. </p>
<p>Coal Seem Gas extraction highlights what is wrong with this country, no one actually owns anything &#8211; everything is subject to government fiat. The reward for hard work and success is taxation and possibly total forfeiture to government. Who would invest in anything but the most basic structures in such an environment. </p>
<p>If Mr Husic really wants to change the game then he should campaign for SUBSTANTIAL reductions in government so we can be free of the real Oz Tax, the work for the dole scheme which is our public sector and the drag on investment and innovation that it represents. Perhaps even a bill of rights and a note on private ownership. Maybe one day if we are not all working to support our sponsored public servant then we might have time to write our own autocad or (heaven forbid) windows. Then we could charge whatever we liked in other countries.</p>
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		<title>By: Goddy</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496889</link>
		<dc:creator>Goddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496889</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Haul them over the hot coals and make them accountable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haul them over the hot coals and make them accountable.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496840</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 07:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that Steam, and Valve, provide a great example of how pricing is influenced by publisher greed rather than by market costs.  A large proportion of games on Steam cost the same in Australia and the US.  A significant minority, though, cost an awful lot more in Australia.  Why?  What is different in those games that makes them cost more in Australia?  It appears to be simply the publisher decision on pricing - that is the single most obvious common element.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Steam, and Valve, provide a great example of how pricing is influenced by publisher greed rather than by market costs.  A large proportion of games on Steam cost the same in Australia and the US.  A significant minority, though, cost an awful lot more in Australia.  Why?  What is different in those games that makes them cost more in Australia?  It appears to be simply the publisher decision on pricing &#8211; that is the single most obvious common element.</p>
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		<title>By: SMEMatt</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496729</link>
		<dc:creator>SMEMatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496729</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steam is a really good example to looks because you have multiple publishers using the platform. They all have the effectively the same distribution cost for the content, yet you have some publishers charging more for what seems to be no other reason than the fact the walled garden restricting easy access to foreign markets exists. Sorry Activations I don&#039;t think advertising costs in Australia justify a 450% mark up on for example CoD MW2.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steam is a really good example to looks because you have multiple publishers using the platform. They all have the effectively the same distribution cost for the content, yet you have some publishers charging more for what seems to be no other reason than the fact the walled garden restricting easy access to foreign markets exists. Sorry Activations I don&#8217;t think advertising costs in Australia justify a 450% mark up on for example CoD MW2.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496466</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 07:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496466</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is interesting that Valve&#039;s Steam platform is mentioned.  My understanding of the issue there is that companies have distribution rights to certain publishers products and these arrangements pre-date the digital platforms being in place.  Under these arrangements the distributors are entitled to some say in or a certain percentage of the sale price so they share some of the responsibility for the Australia tax.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting that Valve&#8217;s Steam platform is mentioned.  My understanding of the issue there is that companies have distribution rights to certain publishers products and these arrangements pre-date the digital platforms being in place.  Under these arrangements the distributors are entitled to some say in or a certain percentage of the sale price so they share some of the responsibility for the Australia tax.</p>
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		<title>By: Tinman_au</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496453</link>
		<dc:creator>Tinman_au</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 07:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good onya Ed!!

There are _no_ reason downloaded software here should be any cheaper/dearer than anywhere else, especially when the support for it is usually based in some help centre in Asia...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good onya Ed!!</p>
<p>There are _no_ reason downloaded software here should be any cheaper/dearer than anywhere else, especially when the support for it is usually based in some help centre in Asia&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Wakie</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496422</link>
		<dc:creator>Wakie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 05:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s no wonder some people turn to piracy!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s no wonder some people turn to piracy!</p>
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		<title>By: GongGav</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/09/18/it-price-hike-inquiry-may-subpoena-rebel-vendors/#comment-496416</link>
		<dc:creator>GongGav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 05:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=137098#comment-496416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If these companies had legitimate reasons for marking their prices up so far, their claims and documentation they rely on to validate the stance would stand up to scrutiny.

In other words, if they dont have anything to hide, why are they hiding?

If someone scrutinised their numbers, and found their prices, or relatively near, were justified, then its something they could point at for years to come.

I for one would love to see someone truly independant audit their practice and add up every point of cost, both here and the US, and show what that real cost at each step is so we could see every markup along the way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If these companies had legitimate reasons for marking their prices up so far, their claims and documentation they rely on to validate the stance would stand up to scrutiny.</p>
<p>In other words, if they dont have anything to hide, why are they hiding?</p>
<p>If someone scrutinised their numbers, and found their prices, or relatively near, were justified, then its something they could point at for years to come.</p>
<p>I for one would love to see someone truly independant audit their practice and add up every point of cost, both here and the US, and show what that real cost at each step is so we could see every markup along the way.</p>
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