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	<title>Comments on: For whom the Whirlpool trolls? Stephen Conroy and the NBN</title>
	<atom:link href="http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/</link>
	<description>Just Australia. Just technology.</description>
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		<title>By: NBNAccuracy</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-500066</link>
		<dc:creator>NBNAccuracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 06:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-500066</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually I probably guess, Opticom and a mikey mouse Aussie satilite company.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually I probably guess, Opticom and a mikey mouse Aussie satilite company.</p>
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		<title>By: NBNAccuracy</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-500064</link>
		<dc:creator>NBNAccuracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 06:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-500064</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The genuine network infrastructure experts (not on the gravy train) typically think the NBN is utter crap.&quot;

Really?  Who are these mythical people?  I say mythical because people keep mentioning them but have never named any.  Where as the network infrastructure experts in favour of the NBN all seem to be nameable.

Come on, give us a list.  You imply that it&#039;s most of the industry.  It shouldn&#039;t take long to give an impressive list of high level experts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The genuine network infrastructure experts (not on the gravy train) typically think the NBN is utter crap.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really?  Who are these mythical people?  I say mythical because people keep mentioning them but have never named any.  Where as the network infrastructure experts in favour of the NBN all seem to be nameable.</p>
<p>Come on, give us a list.  You imply that it&#8217;s most of the industry.  It shouldn&#8217;t take long to give an impressive list of high level experts.</p>
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		<title>By: bananabender</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-500059</link>
		<dc:creator>bananabender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 05:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-500059</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most of the people on posting on  Whirlpol are low -level IT drones. They have no expertise in deploying complex infrastructure. The genuine network infrastructure experts (not on the gravy train) typically think the NBN is utter crap.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the people on posting on  Whirlpol are low -level IT drones. They have no expertise in deploying complex infrastructure. The genuine network infrastructure experts (not on the gravy train) typically think the NBN is utter crap.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489556</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2012 09:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So what you&#039;re saying is that a bunch of people all expressing their own views is better than a newspaper expressing Gina Reinhart&#039;s view?  The AFR, like most of the established Australian media (yes, including the Murdoch rags), doesn&#039;t want or care about &quot;feedback&quot;, &quot;commentary&quot; or &quot;informed opinion&quot; unless it&#039;s telling the story its owners want to tell.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what you&#8217;re saying is that a bunch of people all expressing their own views is better than a newspaper expressing Gina Reinhart&#8217;s view?  The AFR, like most of the established Australian media (yes, including the Murdoch rags), doesn&#8217;t want or care about &#8220;feedback&#8221;, &#8220;commentary&#8221; or &#8220;informed opinion&#8221; unless it&#8217;s telling the story its owners want to tell.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489485</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2012 04:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem with a lot of the traditional media is they like to dress up opinion pieces as reporting. Murdoch press is usually easy to spot the bias, but the so called quality media outlets (Fairfax, Ch9/7/ABC news programs) it&#039;s often very hard to spot this. 

The beauty of the forums is you not only get a wide range of views, but you can often tell (especially when they rant) the bias of people and unlike the traditional media it&#039;s quite easy for someone to call them on this bias. 

The other good thing with forums is that you can check a person&#039;s previous postings to gage how well they held up. Where as the traditional media &amp; their experts are rarely held to account for previous reporting. This is not only technology, but also finance (Alan Kohler &amp; his mates make very interesting reading 18-36mths ago)

lastly the traditional media have always had a very weak grasp on technology. Many of their so called experts are often influenced by their connections to companies in the industry (remember Gareth Powell spruiking Microsoft in the 90&#039;s?), The gadget Guy spruiking .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with a lot of the traditional media is they like to dress up opinion pieces as reporting. Murdoch press is usually easy to spot the bias, but the so called quality media outlets (Fairfax, Ch9/7/ABC news programs) it&#8217;s often very hard to spot this. </p>
<p>The beauty of the forums is you not only get a wide range of views, but you can often tell (especially when they rant) the bias of people and unlike the traditional media it&#8217;s quite easy for someone to call them on this bias. </p>
<p>The other good thing with forums is that you can check a person&#8217;s previous postings to gage how well they held up. Where as the traditional media &amp; their experts are rarely held to account for previous reporting. This is not only technology, but also finance (Alan Kohler &amp; his mates make very interesting reading 18-36mths ago)</p>
<p>lastly the traditional media have always had a very weak grasp on technology. Many of their so called experts are often influenced by their connections to companies in the industry (remember Gareth Powell spruiking Microsoft in the 90&#8242;s?), The gadget Guy spruiking .</p>
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		<title>By: PeterA</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489391</link>
		<dc:creator>PeterA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489391</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agree regarding the NBN forum.  I rarely go there these days.

But the other forums are a wealth of information.  I regularly find fantastic information on every conceivable technology topic.  If I google for a problem, if a whirlpool post comes up that is my first stop - it has the answer 99% of the time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree regarding the NBN forum.  I rarely go there these days.</p>
<p>But the other forums are a wealth of information.  I regularly find fantastic information on every conceivable technology topic.  If I google for a problem, if a whirlpool post comes up that is my first stop &#8211; it has the answer 99% of the time.</p>
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		<title>By: BuildFTTP</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489375</link>
		<dc:creator>BuildFTTP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 21:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&#039;This article is by Glenn Fuller and Jason Wilson, both of whom are assistant professors of communications and journalism at the University of Canberra. It was first published on The Conversation and is re-published here with permission.&#039;

It wasn&#039;t written by Renai :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;This article is by Glenn Fuller and Jason Wilson, both of whom are assistant professors of communications and journalism at the University of Canberra. It was first published on The Conversation and is re-published here with permission.&#8217;</p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t written by Renai :)</p>
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		<title>By: BuildFTTP</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489374</link>
		<dc:creator>BuildFTTP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 21:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I generally find threads like that “Fighting the FUD” one to be somewhat difficult to approach. Where do you start reading? Right at the beginning where you’ve got hundreds of pages before you can catch up, and where the posts are so old and likely out of date anyway? Or somewhere near the end so you can see just where the debate is up to now?&quot;

It can be discouraging to even bother trying when you see &#039;part #&#039; in the title

&quot;What would be awesome is if someone posted a one-page summary every now and then. Any takers?&quot;

I might give it a shot, but I think there are many others that would be more suited to this than I.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I generally find threads like that “Fighting the FUD” one to be somewhat difficult to approach. Where do you start reading? Right at the beginning where you’ve got hundreds of pages before you can catch up, and where the posts are so old and likely out of date anyway? Or somewhere near the end so you can see just where the debate is up to now?&#8221;</p>
<p>It can be discouraging to even bother trying when you see &#8216;part #&#8217; in the title</p>
<p>&#8220;What would be awesome is if someone posted a one-page summary every now and then. Any takers?&#8221;</p>
<p>I might give it a shot, but I think there are many others that would be more suited to this than I.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489325</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 12:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe for the NBN forum there that has so many trolls. I find the other forums to be useful, especially the hardware forums.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe for the NBN forum there that has so many trolls. I find the other forums to be useful, especially the hardware forums.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Zemm</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489318</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Zemm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 11:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If a lurker then posts to discredit you they become a poster, discrediting themselves! Black is white, don&#039;t get killed on a zebra crossing!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a lurker then posts to discredit you they become a poster, discrediting themselves! Black is white, don&#8217;t get killed on a zebra crossing!</p>
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		<title>By: GongGav</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489261</link>
		<dc:creator>GongGav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 06:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I avoid it as much as I can.  Both sides are too quick to misinterpret what someone says, and it can get hostile quickly.  Lots of de-FUDing on the forums, but in and around that its a catfight a lot of the time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I avoid it as much as I can.  Both sides are too quick to misinterpret what someone says, and it can get hostile quickly.  Lots of de-FUDing on the forums, but in and around that its a catfight a lot of the time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Hubert Cumberdale</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489260</link>
		<dc:creator>Hubert Cumberdale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 05:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Anyway, back on topic, my opinion of the Whirlpool forums is generally positive… but is that because most of the posts agree with my opinion?&quot;

Not necessarily. My opinion of the Whirlpool forums is generally negative. I really dont have many nice things to say about the place even though most of the posts agree with my opinion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Anyway, back on topic, my opinion of the Whirlpool forums is generally positive… but is that because most of the posts agree with my opinion?&#8221;</p>
<p>Not necessarily. My opinion of the Whirlpool forums is generally negative. I really dont have many nice things to say about the place even though most of the posts agree with my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: SeanC</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489257</link>
		<dc:creator>SeanC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 05:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489257</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I used to visit the NBN forum on Whirlpool everyday.  It was an excellent tool to learn about the opposing policies, the outright fallacies and the varying technologies being proposed.

These days I only look at it weekly.  As the article says, the forum arguments are broadly circular so there is little to be gained from constant lurking but it&#039;s useful to help keep abreast of recent developments and to help me formulate my own opinion... which is where our traditional news organisations are failing us.

I have no issue with journalists offering up their opinions in clearly defined &#039;this is our opinion&#039; sections, however it seems that many publications are unable to provide raw information in any artical without including superlatives.  I&#039;d love to see a ban on the use of the word &quot;slams&quot; in headlines for example.  It&#039;s an emotive and combative term that predisposes the reader before they&#039;ve even started gathering the &#039;facts&#039; presented in the article.

Anyway, back on topic, my opinion of the Whirlpool forums is generally positive... but is that because most of the posts agree with my opinion?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to visit the NBN forum on Whirlpool everyday.  It was an excellent tool to learn about the opposing policies, the outright fallacies and the varying technologies being proposed.</p>
<p>These days I only look at it weekly.  As the article says, the forum arguments are broadly circular so there is little to be gained from constant lurking but it&#8217;s useful to help keep abreast of recent developments and to help me formulate my own opinion&#8230; which is where our traditional news organisations are failing us.</p>
<p>I have no issue with journalists offering up their opinions in clearly defined &#8216;this is our opinion&#8217; sections, however it seems that many publications are unable to provide raw information in any artical without including superlatives.  I&#8217;d love to see a ban on the use of the word &#8220;slams&#8221; in headlines for example.  It&#8217;s an emotive and combative term that predisposes the reader before they&#8217;ve even started gathering the &#8216;facts&#8217; presented in the article.</p>
<p>Anyway, back on topic, my opinion of the Whirlpool forums is generally positive&#8230; but is that because most of the posts agree with my opinion?</p>
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		<title>By: aka Sam</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489244</link>
		<dc:creator>aka Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 04:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You must be mistaken: lurkers are a myth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You must be mistaken: lurkers are a myth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dean</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489212</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 03:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I generally find threads like that &quot;Fighting the FUD&quot; one to be somewhat difficult to approach. Where do you start reading? Right at the beginning where you&#039;ve got hundreds of pages before you can catch up, and where the posts are so old and likely out of date anyway? Or somewhere near the end so you can see just where the debate is up to now?

Starting near the end makes sense because the argument tends to go round and round in circles anyway. But then you might miss some of the context and I usually find myself going backwards anyway to find out what people are referring to.

What would be awesome is if someone posted a one-page summary every now and then. Any takers?

I like the discussions here better, because the articles give you a nice jumping point to begin the conversation, and it usually takes a day or before the conversation starts going in circles (by which time, there&#039;s a nice fresh one on the front page). Renai&#039;s well-written and thoughtful articles help, too :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I generally find threads like that &#8220;Fighting the FUD&#8221; one to be somewhat difficult to approach. Where do you start reading? Right at the beginning where you&#8217;ve got hundreds of pages before you can catch up, and where the posts are so old and likely out of date anyway? Or somewhere near the end so you can see just where the debate is up to now?</p>
<p>Starting near the end makes sense because the argument tends to go round and round in circles anyway. But then you might miss some of the context and I usually find myself going backwards anyway to find out what people are referring to.</p>
<p>What would be awesome is if someone posted a one-page summary every now and then. Any takers?</p>
<p>I like the discussions here better, because the articles give you a nice jumping point to begin the conversation, and it usually takes a day or before the conversation starts going in circles (by which time, there&#8217;s a nice fresh one on the front page). Renai&#8217;s well-written and thoughtful articles help, too :)</p>
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		<title>By: @Matt_Phipps</title>
		<link>http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/22/for-whom-the-whirlpool-trolls-stephen-conroy-and-the-nbn/#comment-489200</link>
		<dc:creator>@Matt_Phipps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 03:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://delimiter.com.au/?p=136428#comment-489200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Did you just tell the AFR to stop trolling?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you just tell the AFR to stop trolling?</p>
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