blog Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull has been getting down and dirty with the locals in rural NSW town Armidale, which contains an early stage rollout zone for the National Broadband Network. However, as could have been predicted, the honourable Member for of Wentworth doesn’t appear to have been satisfied with all that he saw. Fairfax’s The Northern Daily Leader was on the scene:
“[Turnbull] said when Telstra’s copper wire access was switched off, the wireless option could only be described as equal to copper wire or could be even worse than current services. He said his meeting in Armidale was a good example of being able to meet people on the ground and he wasn’t aware of this technological shortcoming until he’d came to Armidale.”
Of course, had Turnbull been reading Delimiter, he would have realised that in point of fact, those areas which will be served by wireless under the NBN rollout plans won’t have their existing Telstra copper switched off at all. The copper network will remain in place for at least ten years, a fact which was reiterated by NBN Co after similar fears were raised in Tasmania.
Wow. We didn’t even need to ask the Office of Communications Minister Stephen Conroy for a response to this one. It’s kind of like the rebuttal wrote itself ;)
Image credit: Office of Malcolm Turnbull
Once again the coalition clowns prove they dont have a clue when it comes to the NBN or technology in general… they probably still believe they’ll be able to fool everyone with their dismal patchwork plan. I dont think they realise that they are now facing an uphill battle to stop the NBN, if they win the next election and end up scaling it back it will bite them ass over and over again. People will ask “Ok where the FTTN you promised?” and “Why does have FTTH and we dont?”
btw Funny to hear Turnbull complaining about wireless now, certainly has changed his tune but I’m not surprised consistency has never been one of his strong points. Flip-flopping all over the place this year lol.
” they probably still believe they’ll be able to fool everyone with their dismal patchwork plan.”
The Coalition have not released any plan as yet, the election is two years away so they don’t have to, and keep in mind just like Rudd and Conroy did after the 2007 election they can change their minds completely from any communications election promises and come up with a totally new plan later!
“I dont think they realise that they are now facing an uphill battle to stop the NBN,”
The term NBN does not equal 100% FTTH 100% paid for by the taxpayer, only putting the political description Labor in front of the term NBN makes it so.
” if they win the next election and end up scaling it back it will bite them ass over and over again. People will ask “Ok where the FTTN you promised?” and “Why does have FTTH and we dont?”
No the majority of most people won’t even know or care, just like the majority of residences that have the highest speed BB available to them today HFC give it a miss, most residences will only miss ADSL/ ADSL2+ when Telstra shut downs the copper network and they are forced onto the NBN, your attempted tech geek comparison of FTTH vs FTTN will not translate into votes that will determine the winner or loser in the next election.
If the NBN rollout today was 100% FTTN the electorate would not care at all.
Remember Labor is already on the nose with the electorate, and if election was held this month they would be rolled big time, and that has nothing whatever to do with the NBN and as to whether the Coalition has a Comms policy ‘patch work’ or not!
“btw Funny to hear Turnbull complaining about wireless now, certainly has changed his tune but I’m not surprised consistency has never been one of his strong points. Flip-flopping all over the place this year lol.”
Turnbull has never said wireless is a total replacement for fixed line BB, that was emphasised again above, nothing I read in that article indicates he has ‘changed his tune’ at all, nor is he ‘flip flopping all over the place’.
@ alain.
Dear oh dear this once AGAIN shows the level of absolute subservience to your party… even though they DO NOT HAVE a broadband plan (or policies at all) according to you, you will support them (not even knowing what they will come up with) here and now and gladly vote for them, regardless…
Pretty much explains why you are here 24/7, blurting out contradictory NBN BS…thanks for the frank admission.
RS go easy on him he’s probably too oblivious to realise that he’s basically saying what I’ve been saying all along that the majority of people are actually in favor of the NBN. If Labour lose now in a fictitious election or the actual next election it wont have anything to do with it. I myself did not vote for either of these parties at the last one either because unlike the anti-NBN crusaders I am not so narrow minded to vote for a candidate based on one issue alone.
“what I’ve been saying all along that the majority of people are actually in favor of the NBN.”
You know this how? – that’s right you don’t it’s just biased opinion, what else would it be.
“If Labour lose now in a fictitious election or the actual next election it wont have anything to do with it.”
Yeah I know that what I said and… ?
“I myself did not vote for either of these parties at the last one either because unlike the anti-NBN crusaders I am not so narrow minded to vote for a candidate based on one issue alone.”
How do you know ‘anti-NBN crusaders’ vote on one issue alone? – that’s right you don’t, it’s just biased opinion, what else would it be?
Hush child. When it comes to the NBN and the anti-NBN crusaders I am never wrong.
Good, so that’s a firm NO then, you made it all up.
@ HC.. I am taking it easy mate, I don’t have to try too hard with this one.
Rather than him manning-up and admitting I found him out lying (saying one thing then blindly contradicting himself) he no longer corresponds with me. How convenient!. But for one who likes to argue, that’s quite a cowardly exit…!
That’s 7 (well 5 actually) now, who SAY they refuse to correspond with me… LOL.
1. alain/advocate… then he reneged once the heat was off and started again…sigh.
2. alain/advocate again (for now)… awaiting the heat to lessen AGAIN, LOL
3. Tosh, who says he no longer reads my posts (and ergo subsequently won’t respond).
4. Old Ray over at CW, who also reneged…sigh
5. A greedy TLS shareholder (VM) from NWAT and other forums, who believes our comms should revolve around his shares, who also reneged…
6. The same greedy TLS shareholder… awaiting his return?
7. Greedy TLS shareholder #2 (who we all know and love) who also reneged and is again corresponding.
These guys have 3 things in common. They CONTRADICT themselves (lie) to suit their agendas. When you challenge then to walk the walk, the go to water and in fact run in the opposite direction. And to show just how small they are, they will return (apart from Tosh, but…it’s only early…) only when the thread where their lies were highlighted has well and truly come and gone and they pretend as if nothing happened!
LOL… pretty much covers them all…imo!
>People will ask “Why does have FTTH and we dont?”
I think this is the biggest thing actually. No matter how many nay-sayers and corporate propagandists there are, once a significant portion of the population is benefiting from superfast FTTH EVERYONE is going to become jealous.
It’s not the same when a private company rolls out cable to a small portion of Australians, because no one feels the private company owes them anything. But when it comes to government people will become EXTREMELY angry that millions are enjoying the benefits of a government program that they’re not.
If you go through the details released to the ASX by Telstra in regards to the deal between themselves, NBN Co, and the government, in the wireless served areas they are committed to maintaining the copper for at least 20 years.
you retain copper for the voice but the issue is you lose ADSL access which is superior to wireless for heavy internet users.
BS.
NBN Co quite clearly said some time ago that the copper network providing ADSL broadband will be maintained for at least a decade once the NBN is rolled out in non-fibre areas, and the subsequent completion of the deal between themselves and Telstra sees that hit at least 20 years.
*NBN Co quite clearly said some time ago that the copper network providing ADSL broadband will be maintained for at least a decade once the NBN is rolled out in non-fibre areas, and the subsequent completion of the deal between themselves and Telstra sees that hit at least 20 years.*
i thought under the Telstra deal, Telstra has to use the fibre network exclusively to provide broadband services?
How are they going to use the fibre network in the non-fibre areas?
you’re telling me that NBNco will allow Telstra and others to use the copper network to provide ADSL broadband in competition with NBNco’s fixed wireless or satellite service?
You show me something that says people will be ripping their DSLAMs out.
you show me a clause in the Telstra/NBNco deal that provides an exception to the “Telstra shall only use NBNco’s fibre network to provide fixed-line broadband services” for the 7% that don’t get NBN fibre.
Do you actually read what you type before you post?
Telstra shall only use NBNco’s fibre network to provide fixed-line broadband services for the 7% that don’t get NBN fibre
How in god’s name do you expect Telstra to ONLY use the fibre to provide services for areas that DO NOT have fibre?
O. M. G.
LMAO! Tosh, I follow your posts and sometimes you make some good points, but you have to concede you failed hard with this one.
@Michael Wyres
this is what i wrote:
you show me a clause in the Telstra/NBNco deal that provides an exception to the “Telstra shall only use NBNco’s fibre network to provide fixed-line broadband services” for the 7% that don’t get NBN fibre.
don’t cut up my sentence, leave out the quotation marks and twist the meaning of my sentence.
*How in god’s name do you expect Telstra to ONLY use the fibre to provide services for areas that DO NOT have fibre?*
you don’t. why do you assume that Telstra has to provide fixed-line broadband to the 7% who don’t get NBN fibre. obviously, for those 7%, Telstra will have to provide broadband using NBN’s wireless and satellite services. this is NBNco’s broadband strategy.
i find it truly astounding that someone like you that religiously attends NBNco presentations and probably sits at the front in a chair with the word “GULLIBLE” stamped on the back fails to comprehend simple facts about the NBN.
The Telstra / NBN deal – (or at least the details that have been revealed) – make absolutely no mention of Telstra being required to use NBN Co’s wireless or satellite networks.
Go read it.
don’t evade my question.
i shall ask you once more and give you the chance to redeem yourself:
“you’re telling me that NBNco will allow Telstra and others to use the copper network to provide ADSL broadband in competition with NBNco’s fixed wireless or satellite service?”
you should have absolutely no problem answering this since (as you like to publicise) you’ve been to every NBNco presentation.
i’m just humbly seeking some clarification on this point.
I am avoiding nothing.
I have seen or heard nothing to suggest anyone will be forced to take DSLAMs out. DSLAMs have even been installed in areas such as Willunga (NBN trial site) quite recently.
That’s my answer – (if you missed it in any number of above posts).
If you have other confirmed information – please enlighten us. I notice you’ve avoided that question.
And just for you:
http://www.zdnet.com.au/nbn-co-smooths-ruffled-tassie-feathers-339311278.htm?noredir=1
“It (NBN Co) also reassured those in areas to be served by wireless that existing ADSL broadband over Telstra’s existing copper network won’t be shut down for 10 years“
@Michael Wyres
so copper-based ADSL services will be completely shutdown in 10 years time at the completion of the fibre roll-out, implying that the 7% who don’t get NBN fibre will be consigned to NBNco’s “inferior” wireless and satellite broadband services.
so, Malcolm Turnbull is completely right.
(thanks for the link – glad we have everything sorted out.)
Ahh, another twist!
No – it appears to be 20 years at this stage, given the agreement signed between them.
And for all I, you, Malcolm or anyone else knows, fibre may be extended into those areas by then.
@MW, yes you’d think it would be easier for someone like TP, when they are WRONG, to simply say…
“Oh, ok, thanks for the info MW”… end of story? He doesn’t even have to admit he was wrong… just take it all on board, LEARN and if any common sense is on tap at all… just STFU!
But no… the ego (and political subserviency/agenda) makes such people have to twist each and every word around so that in the end, them and their WRONG comment can in their own deluded minds be deemed correct.
Of course then they feel all good about themselves and say things like – “glad we got it all sorted out”… whilst proudly beating the chest like a mindless Hylobatidae…!
Cred now minus 3 with a bullet!
@Michael Wyres
Telecommunications Universal Service Management Agency (TUSMA) Agreement:
Purpose
“The Telecommunications Universal Service Management Agency (TUSMA) Agreement aims to ensure:
1) continued delivery of the universal service obligations (USO) (currently set out in the Telecommunications (Consumer Protection and Service Standards) Act 1999) (TCPSS Act) to ensure that standard telephone services (STS) and payphones are reasonably accessible to all people in Australia on an equitable basis, regardless of where they reside or carry on business;
2) for premises not served by the NBN fibre network, continued reasonable access to the existing copper access network for STS;
3) the ongoing delivery of emergency call handling (Triple Zero ‘000’ and ‘112’);
4) that appropriate safety net arrangements are in place that will assist the migration of voice-only customers to a NBN fibre service as Telstra’s copper customer access network is decommissioned; and
5) if required, technological solutions will be developed for continuity of public interest services (i.e. public alarm systems and traffic lights).”
Standard
From 1 July 2012, for a term of 20 years, Telstra will have a contractual obligation to supply the STS nationwide, as necessary, to fulfil the STS USO such that:
1) in areas where the regulatory obligation has transferred to TUSMA, Telstra has a contractual obligation to fulfil the USO for TUSMA; and
2) in areas where Telstra is the primary universal service provider, Telstra has a contractual commitment to comply with its regulatory obligation.
From 1 July 2012, TUSMA must pay Telstra $230 million pa (not indexed to CPI) for supply of the STS services, subject to payment adjustments to take account of increases or reductions in Telstra’s costs if there is a change in the scope of the STS services Telstra is required to provide. Telstra is entitled to a payment adjustment whether Telstra is the primary universal service provider or responsibility has shifted to TUSMA.
Within NBN Co’s fibre footprint, Telstra will fulfil the role of retail provider of last resort (ROLAR) for customers who wish to take only a voice STS over the NBN (ROLAR voice-only customers). This commitment will apply as a contractual obligation even after the regulatory USO obligation shifts to TUSMA.
Telstra will receive funding to operate and maintain its existing copper network, to provide STS, in areas outside NBN Co’s fibre footprint (the “copper continuity obligation”). This obligation requires that Telstra not disconnect a service address that is connected to the copper network as at 1 July 2012:
1) in areas where the NBN will not be deployed, for the term of the TUSMA Agreement; and
2) in the NBN fibre footprint, until the copper line is disconnected in accordance with the Subscriber Agreement.
http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD..PC/pc=PC_2413
Section 6 of the Telecommunications (Consumer Protection and Service Standards) Act 1999 defines the standard telephone service (STS) as being:
1) a telephone service fit for the purpose of voice telephony, or
2) if voice telephony is impractical for a person with a disability, a form of communication that is equivalent to voice telephony.
points to note:
1/ Telstra’s existing fixed-line services in the rural areas are subsidised under USO arrangements. in other words, these services are currently UNPROFITABLE to provision in the absence of USO funding.
2/ furthermore, Telstra has been arguing for years that the level of USO funding it receives is insufficient to offset the higher costs of servicing rural populations.
3/ under the new NBN regime, Telstra’s USO obligations will be transferred to TUSMA.
4/ as part of the Telstra/NBNco deal, Telstra will be contracted to carry out TUSMA’s USO obligations for the agreed period.
5/ these USO obligations only relate to the provision of VOICE services.
6/ Telstra will only be compensated for facilitating the specific services outlined in the USO.
7/ there’s NOTHING in the Telstra/NBNco deal which guarantees that Telstra will continue to offer ADSL services to the 7% of premises which are outside of the NBN fibre footprint.
LOL, Googling frantically for 12 hours…
My the lengths some EGO’s will go to eh?
Interesetingly, I thought the USO only ever related to voice not internet access (hence Telstra being allowed to supply mobile phones rather than fixed lines in new estates) so all of the above may have absolutely SFA to do with any of this…
But I may be wrong and if I am rest assured “I will simply admit it an move on”, not try diversion and then when that fails, 12 hours of Googling…LOL, priceless!
Simon, when has Tosh ever made a good point?
there’s another way of reframing the issue under debate:
when i asked Michael twice whether Telstra would be allowed to use its copper fixed-line network to compete against NBNco’s fixed wireless and satellite broadband offerings, he should have jumped in immediately and said, “yes”.
the Telstra/NBNco deal only stipulates a fixed network preference for fixed-line broadband services within the NBN fibre footprint. why is this the case? because the NBN fibre network already covers 93% of the population (i.e. almost the entire broadband market). the remaining 7% of the population is actually highly unprofitable to service in terms of providing fixed-line services.
hence, as opposed to paying Telstra not to compete against NBNco in the last 7 percentile using its fixed-line network, the Government, via the auspices of TUSMA, actually has to do the opposite and pay Telstra to keep its copper network open in these rural areas.
now, the TUSMA agreement specifically stipulates that Telstra will only be compensated for delivery of “standard telephony services (STS)”. also, we know that Telstra has been complaining for many years that the current USO subsidies do not fully compensate it for the costs it incurs in maintaining fixed-line services in these remote areas.
this implies that Telstra is probably “internally” subsidising the provision of ADSL services in these loss-making areas out of “goodwill” due to its unique position as the sole owner and operator of the the national fixed-line network. what guarantees do we have that Telstra will continue to do so once it has been stripped of the billions of dollars of wholesale revenue and forced to shutdown all of its DSLAMs within the NBN fibre footprint?
who is to say Telstra won’t completely rationalise its operations, shutdown all legacy services (that are not explicitly mandated under USO) and only offer NBNco’s fixed wireless and satellite broadband services as well as its own LTE offering to residents within the last 7 percentile? if the existing economies of fixed-line broadband provision are poor in these remote areas, why will they get any better once a portion of the small market gets siphoned off by NBNco’s broadband offerings?
at the end of the day, we have no enforceable undertakings from Telstra other than what is contained in the Telstra/NBNco deal itself. and there are no references (or guarantees) whatsoever relating to ADSL services in the various agreements.
That’s all good and well when dealing with the rational and non-politically biased, who will actually accept another’s opinions and/or evidence, Tosh.
Sadly however (and I am obviously not alone with this view) you have continually shown you are either unwilling or incapable of accepting anyone else’s comments/views/opinions, if they do not conform to your biased and ridiculous (imo) radcon beliefs.
Gotta love it….The usual suspects have been using wireless as the basis for their argument for many months.
Mass debates (pun intended) have ensued with epic comments running over many days, over NBN take-up rates, fixed disconnections, wireless connections, stats, formulae etc. These FUDsters did so to try to desperately prove the NBN unviable, due to the huge impact wireless is having on the NBN, as a competitor and some even claimed equal competitor (to a monopoly…LOL) at that.
But now that King Mal has said wireless may not even be as good as copper, they “immediately” do a flip-flop too and want to use the wireless is “inferior” to ADSL tack…
Inferior to ADSL but equal to (or better than) fibre…LOL!!!!!!!! I’m thinking we already have a challenger to before roads there were no roads… wow that was quick!
Seriously… do you blokes have any position at all which doesn’t continually contradict itself, based upon the circumstances at any given time?
Sorry, of course you don’t… you simply agree with absolutely ****ing everything the Coalition says!
@Merlin Never. I was just trying to be nice ;)
LOL…
So this (wireless) is the “great white hope”, according to some/FUDsters, eh…? The big competitor which will make the NBN unviable… Oh dear, not even your messiah thinks so (at this political point anyway…)!
Well at least now it’s evident just where the usual suspects here learned their ridiculous contradictory habits.
So… just for old times sake, please tell us again that “wireless will be a fierce competitor to the NBN and in the next breath tell us about the big ogre monopoly NBN, sans ALL competition”… LOL?
That’s almost as good as one of you saying “before roads, there were no roads”, which is still the stupidest comment yet…
But don’t fret, there’s still plenty of time and you guys obviously have the cerebral capabilities to surpass even that, I’m sure…!
Actually RS, the old “before roads there were no roads” comment isn’t stupid.. its correct. The better term to use would be “Inane” =P
“He said his meeting in Armidale was a good example of being able to meet people on the ground and he wasn’t aware of this technological shortcoming until he’d came to Armidale.””
And I’m sure the honourable minister was out in Armidale to get honest accounts of people’s experiences with the NBN right? Or just like every other member of the coalition was he there to on a witch-hunt to cherry pick specific examples of unhappy users (of which there will of course be one or two) and use them as the basis for his anti-NBN rants?
Do Liberal MPs ever do anything other than visit work sites, put on hats, and come out with misleading negative bullshit for the media?
Pathetic Malcolm. Just pathetic.
“Do Liberal MPs ever do anything other than visit work sites, put on hats, and come out with misleading negative bullshit for the media?”
You mean just like Gillard and Conroy does?
@ alain
Yes exactly… you are awakening now… they are all politicians, good boy!
Funny you were one of the first to criticise the other mob for doing the same thing though…sigh!
if i were you Simon, i would cajole as many friends as i can to move to marginal electorates and “vote Labor” at the next election…. because, quite frankly, Labor’s NBN and NBNco are both heading down a toilet.
maybe start a Facebook page: “Move to a marginal electorate and save the NBN!”. if you’re lucky, you might get 5 likes ;)
Playing the man now?
Coming from you that’s hilarious.
we have got “two backs” against the wall now…..
LOL….Tosh, but, but, but…!
When in doubt whip more BS, excuses and flip-flops out… nice.
Perhaps a change of moniker is now in order, since you have been hung, drawn and quartered, figuratively speaking of course…!
Tosh: Since you’re so direct with your questions, what do you have to say about the facts presented to you above by Michael? Are you going to put a twist on those and refute NBNCo’s comments as well?
Quoting from article dated 14th Feb 2011 on Zdnet:
Digital Tasmania had said that some residents were concerned they might lose their current ADSL services if they lived in areas to be covered by wireless broadband.
However, NBN Co said that the government policy under which it was operating had stipulated that the copper network should be maintained for a decade in areas not to be covered by the fibre footprint — 7 per cent of premises.
In addition, it said that the promised wireless peak download speeds of 12Mbps would be better than what many people will be currently experiencing on ADSL — “particularly if they are in a rural area some kilometres from their exchange”.
For those communities not covered by the initial fibre roll-out, NBN Co pointed out that the government had encouraged it to explore mechanisms for a community to fully or partially fund the extension of the fibre network to cover that location, with NBN Co only seeking to recover the incremental costs incurred in the extensions.
Nevermind. I see you’ve already contorted the facts to suit your own agenda. You’re one of those people that are never wrong aren’t you?
http://xkcd.com/386/
PMSL…okay then, Mr NBN Linebacker.
@alain
*high five*
that’s another one down – a walk in the park too.
Those in glass house shouldn’t throw bricks at rubberised walls.
o Jesus Sweet Lord, you can’t even get your metaphors right….
wouldn’t a glass house have glass walls? hence, don’t throw bricks… ;)
*lulz*
Bricks bounce of rubberised walls and crash into the person who threw it…I’d hate to see a glass house get smashed, because it would be a beautiful piece of modern architecture.
okaaaay…. so if the walls are rubberised, they’re obviously not made of glass (because it would defeat the purpose of having glass walls if they’re made opaque by a layer of rubber). so, we’re talking about a house with either a glass floor or ceiling…. now, the ceiling is most likely insulated so as to lower energy bills in prep for the carbon tax (so the opacity argument applies as well). so that leaves us with the glass floor..
now, i dunno about you, but i would never live in a house with a glass floor… so i sincerely suggest that you ditch the glass and rubberise that floor of yours as well. but, knowing how stubborn you are….
*hands Michael a rubberised brick*
Dear oh dear, the childish and idiotic lengths some will go to to HIDE THEIR PREVIOUSLY DISPROVED RUBBISH comments is quite pitiful, really…!
But funny…LOL!
Not all the walls are made of glass…have some imagination!
okay, let’s follow the trail of your illogic a little bit further…
“not all walls are made of glass.”
but you’re “rubberising” glass walls because you’d hate to see a “fine glass house getting smashed”. as i’ve already pointed out, there’s no point having rubberised glass walls because the whole point of having glass walls as an architectural feature is to facilitate transparency.
so your confused metaphor still fails. god, you can’t even troll intelligently. sad.
I can’t believe I have to explain this… Your house is made of glass. The house you’re throwing stones at is made of rubber.
All this kerfuffle, is just a diversionary tactic from Tosh, to hope (and pray to sweet jeebus) we all forget about his typically uneducated comment…!
why on earth would i throw stones at a house that’s made of rubber? the whole point of throwing stones is to cause some damage to a fragile structure. the underlying logic of the idiom implies that the houses of both the “critic” and the “criticised” are both similarly fragile. Michael’s twisted metaphor still fails miserably on logic.
And your desperation to continue try to deflect from your initial stupid comment is at best, deliciously humorous and at worst sadly pitiful…
Keep it up tiger, we are most amused…!
You got owned hard Tosh. Quit before you get even more behind.
one could only hope that WP trolls such as RS and yourself would grow a brain (or at least re-sit Year 5 “reading and comprehension”).
More personal insults?
Credibility minus 1
Coming from the past master of personal insults when he is backed into a corner, which is a frequent occurrence in Delimiter.
Any so called credibility rating from you is therefore totally and utterly void.
I’m sure everyone else notices that you guys just redirect away from the topic at hand when you’ve got nothing. This is just another example. Argument fails, so just FUD up so the facts are hidden amongst your bullshit.
I’ll let others be the judge. Not you.
@Micheal Wyres
“just redirect away from the topic at hand when you’ve got nothing.”
You of all posters in Delimiter asserting that about someone else is absolutely priceless as it is a common tactic by you, remember the ULL discussion where it all got too hard, so out came the MW flexible goal posts, a quick U-turn and the subject under current discussion was changed rapidly by you to something else, and then you had the gall to assert that’s what we discussing all along!
Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.
LOL ‘rest my case’ – priceless, your case is well and truly empty, it’s nice of you to end off with a laugh though.
See?
You just cannot discuss the topic when you’ve got a chance to try and stick the boots into someone.
I rest my case. Again.
(NEWSFLASH: I know you’re just trying to annoy me, but it’s not working…never has…)
But it’s ok when you do it? – all from different posts from you in this discussion.
“Playing the man now?”
“More personal insults?”
“I’m sure everyone else notices that you guys just redirect away…. ”
“Those in glass house shouldn’t throw bricks at rubberised walls.”
As I said, priceless.
Just making sure other people realise…all part of the service!
Mate, you got chased out of Whirlpool for your lack of credibility, you’ve just found somewhere else to troll where you think nobody has the cojones to call you on your BS (Mike and RS are notable exceptions).
As you well know, my reading and comprehension are quite literal, but your same tired antics span two boards now. You’ll always come out of this losing as long as you continue to push the anti-NBN FUD you do. I’m happy for anti-NBN arguments, they can only help strengthen the solution, but only if it’s based on fact. Your arguments never are.
*Mate, you got chased out of Whirlpool for your lack of credibility*
don’t you worry your little head about my “credibility”. if i were you i’d be more worried about finding something original to say other than monotonous screaming of “FUD” and “troll” at everything you don’t understand or don’t want to hear.
*you’ve just found somewhere else to troll*
yes, some of us refuse to adopt the “three monkeys”* approach to discussing the NBN on WP. thankfully, the Publisher of delimiter is more enlightened and honourable than the clowns moderating the WP NBN forum.
FFS, why don’t you just make a massive sticky on WP NBN homepage and link to
http://www.nbnco.com.au/conroy+approved/media_releases
*where you think nobody has the cojones to call you on your BS (Mike and RS are notable exceptions)*
you don’t need balls to post on an internet forum. what you need is the ability to think for yourself and some commonsense (two things that the people you mentioned clearly lack).
*You’ll always come out of this losing as long as you continue to push the anti-NBN FUD you do.*
i’ve never lost a single debate on the economic merits or implications of the NBN (either on WP or delimiter).
have a good weekend!
* “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” of Labor’s NBN
“don’t you worry your little head about my “credibility”. if i were you i’d be more worried about finding something original to say other than monotonous screaming of “FUD” and “troll” at everything you don’t understand or don’t want to hear.”
Oh I’m not worried. Your credibility is out there for everyone to see, lol. Quite a demonstration of the 3 monkeys approach yourself.
“yes, some of us refuse to adopt the “three monkeys”* approach to discussing the NBN on WP”
Too true. You brought it here instead.
“the Publisher of delimiter is more enlightened and honourable than the clowns moderating the WP NBN forum.
FFS, why don’t you just make a massive sticky on WP NBN homepage and link to
http://www.nbnco.com.au/conroy+approved/media_releases”
What’s the matter, getting information straight from the horses mouth a little too much for you? Analyse hard data Tosh, facts. Not guesses. Delimiter is great for the little NBN nuggets and the angles of thinking that tend to get lost on WP due to certain agendas, yours amongst them. Pity that you don’t understand that criticising doesn’t directly correspond to being overwhelmingly negative.
“you don’t need balls to post on an internet forum. what you need is the ability to think for yourself and some commonsense (two things that the people you mentioned clearly lack).”
Aw don’t be like that. I’ve enough common sense to laugh at you trolling, just not enough to not feed you. Cheers for the giggles though.
“i’ve never lost a single debate on the economic merits or implications of the NBN (either on WP or delimiter). ”
How quickly you forget. You lose simply because you think it’s about winning or losing, and I commend you for your zealotry to your overwhelming belief that you are right 100% of the time. Faith such as yours is comforting, if naive.
“have a good weekend!”
Oh I will.
As this was brought up by others, not me, please let me join in the latest discussion..
Oh Tosh no need to get all upset… truth hurts eh tiger…?
Your comments here were dismissed as rubbish and instead of manning up, you twist, turn, weasel and try to put a new angle or try to deflect the blame to those who highlight your BS as the BS it is.
We can all (well all apart from the clones) see it for what it is and you for what you are…LOL! Seriously!
Speaking of troll, why don’t you show us that credibility (LOL) of your’s in full flight by AGAIN saying you don’t scream troll and then doing exactly that 24 hours later, as you did previously! That was one of your better posts…still behind your mate’s, before roads there were no roads…but keep trying you are almost there…tiger!
Sadly for you my friend (and I say that with the complete insincerity you deserve) people like us can see straight through your transparent, biased, politically driven BS and know exactly what you are and because we do so, your little jig is up and your comments will be judged accordingly… i.e. those of a political minion!
>Mate, you got chased out of Whirlpool for your lack of credibility, you’ve just found somewhere else to troll where you think nobody has the cojones to call you on your BS (Mike and RS are notable exceptions).
I don’t understand why Renai doesn’t ban him. He’s constantly causing disruption while spreading lies and backtracking on his comments. And whenever a discussion attempts to sort through his FUD he diverts attention by insulting others or going on a random tangent.
If that’s isn’t cause for a ban I don’t know what is.
@Merlin
“I don’t understand why Renai doesn’t ban him. He’s constantly causing disruption while spreading lies and backtracking on his comments”
There I was thinking the same about you, with your now deleted personal attacks and lies like Telstra spending its profits overseas to start up new monopolies.
And… let’s not forget your contradictions…sigh!
i reject every single one of your false insinuations, smears, slurs and deliberate mischaracterisations.
Of course you do… as I said above, the truth hurts…!
Since you feel obligated to add me to every comment (due to my previous humiliations of you) would you like an autograph?
+1
@ Tosh
I thought you said previously, that you never scream troll (then did 24hrs later…LOL) and are doing so again.
Cred now minus 2 (with a bullet)…!
Well, a quick scan of the comments so far indicates that nobody is really sure about NBN operational details, future developments or strategic plans. Has this sorry state of affairs come about because of the muddled misconception and misinformation of bureaucrats and politicians, including their policy about-turns, tactical deception and stupid lies that have been a continuing story of the whole blundering fiasco?
Well, a quick scan of the comments so far indicates that nobody is really sure about NBN operational details, future developments or strategic plans.
What we have here is a handful of misinformed people commenting on an article. I don’t think you can sensibly make the leap from that to “nobody is really sure”. The information is available to those who go looking for it.
Gentlemen.
Let’s keep these comments, civil, shall I? It’s Friday; can’t we all play nice and get along? ;)
I apologise to you and others for my comments below Renai. Out of respect for those who deserve it (and you are among them), I will not post further to Tosh at this time.
next time you post on delimiter, please have something original to say or something perceptive to share. please don’t drag the thread off-topic again by starting personal attacks or slurs or barging into thread conversations just to troll.
Hey Jeremy, it’s obvious to everyone that the NBN information available from the website, bosses, bureaucrats, press releases or Federal Minister is either inadequate, incorrect or conveniently subject to “commercial-in confidence”. If it looks like a mess, it probably is.
*What’s the matter, getting information straight from the horses mouth a little too much for you? Analyse hard data Tosh, facts. Not guesses.*
NBNco’s “business case” (i.e. build cost, pricing parameters, service take-up, wholesale ARPU, etc) is ONE BIG GUESS, you **** ****.
given how you feel, here’s my final suggestion to you…… STOP READING MY POSTS.
(i stopped reading RS’ posts a long time ago. my eyes just glaze over them when i’m reading the comments section. if i can do it, you can do it too!)
:))
whoops…. above reply @Murdoch.
As I said Toss, the truth hurts, so please put fingers back in ears and head back in sand….now, in case you hear the truth again…!
“NBNco’s “business case” (i.e. build cost, pricing parameters, service take-up, wholesale ARPU, etc) is ONE BIG GUESS, you **** ****.”
I wasn’t talking about professionally compiled reports, just your oversimplified guessed conclusions. Otherwise, you’d come to the same conclusion as the the business case, wouldn’t you? That the NBN is not only viable, but value for money.
“given how you feel, here’s my final suggestion to you…… STOP READING MY POSTS”
I have to, in order to craft responses, and do those others that read them a service to identify the empty rhetoric they are. I will continue to identify the swill you profess, lest you actually get one or two people who may believe you. I will not bury my head and let BS lie if it has a chance of fooling someone.
+1 Exactly my thoughts too Murdoch, special jkudos to your 2nd paragraph… (1st paragraph is obvious… who do we believe NBNCo or Tosh and his other couple of mates…LOL)!
While everyone is entitled to an opinion, when some come here to spread complete fkn lies, simply to aid the political party (any political party – I despise them all, i just despise the Libs more, “currently”, LOL) well…
But because I am passionate in doing so, I sometimes get in trouble… c`est la vie…!
*Otherwise, you’d come to the same conclusion as the the business case, wouldn’t you? That the NBN is not only viable, but value for money.*
the NBN is not viable and is DEFINITELY NOT value for money. lmao.
*I have to, in order to craft responses*
sorry, during the time when i was active on WP, i never read a single intelligent post by you – certainly, nothing that can be construed as a “crafted response” in a meaningful sense. all you do on WP is to bully, hound and harrass people who criticise Labor’s NBN in any way.
this is what i think of you…. the last time i was browsing WP NBN forum (many months ago), when other forum participants (not me) formulated reasonable criticisms of the NBN based directly on information contained in the NBNco Corporate Plan, your best “crafted response” was along the lines of “none of these facts are valid criticisms of the NBN because they have not yet happened”.
Murdoch – you’re a forum thug, moron and complete tool.
*I will continue to identify the swill you profess*
surely, there must be better paying jobs out there than being a paid Labor forum troll?
Oh Toss P300, that isn’t a comment that is personal abuse towards Murdoch. So since YOU chose this avenue, please let me cut in (I love this)…
Seriously Toss, is it true the only reason you were put on earth is so that mankind knew to put the words f**k and wit together?
But yes there are better paying jobs, such as paid Liberal troll… Just how much do you get?
Good night fool!
“this is what i think of you…. the last time i was browsing WP NBN forum (many months ago), when other forum participants (not me) formulated reasonable criticisms of the NBN based directly on information contained in the NBNco Corporate Plan, your best “crafted response” was along the lines of “none of these facts are valid criticisms of the NBN because they have not yet happened”.”
That certainly sounds like me criticising you for jumping to conclusions. Perfectly valid.
“Murdoch – you’re a forum thug, moron and complete tool.”
And you sir, are a lazy thinking self-deluded, self righteous soapbox preacher with nothing but blind faith in your own point of view to back yourself up. One day you may realise that the people you preach to are only cardboard cutouts of your own making.
“surely, there must be better paying jobs out there than being a paid Labor forum troll?”
There is, as you well know, I’m a remote access engineer, and a swinging voter. I didn’t vote Labor or Liberal at the last election, neither party deserved my vote.
*That certainly sounds like me criticising you for jumping to conclusions. Perfectly valid.*
you failed “reading & comprehension” once more. i was referring to an instance of you making an ass of yourself trying to shout down other forum posters (not me) making intelligent criticisms of the NBN using factual information directly derived from NBNco’s corporate plan. please learn to read.
*And you sir, are a lazy thinking self-deluded, self righteous soapbox preacher with nothing but blind faith in your own point of view to back yourself up. One day you may realise that the people you preach to are only cardboard cutouts of your own making.*
blah, blah, blah… that’s your only contribution to the NBN debate… casting slurs, insinuations, aspersions… (as opposed to debating the economic issues on which you’re totally clueless).
*I didn’t vote Labor or Liberal at the last election, neither party deserved my vote.*
who cares. ever wondered why NBNco’s corporate plan is a “three year plan” (ending 2013)? most likely because they only receive funding till 2013 when the next federal election comes around. look at the polls mate, Labor’s NBN is going down and so is the $50bln taxpayer-funded gravy train. too bad, so sad ;)
“you failed “reading & comprehension” once more. i was referring to an instance of you making an ass of yourself trying to shout down other forum posters (not me) making intelligent criticisms of the NBN using factual information directly derived from NBNco’s corporate plan. please learn to read.”
Oh no, another personal attack, lol. Just another for the pile. *yawn*
“blah, blah, blah… that’s your only contribution to the NBN debate… casting slurs, insinuations, aspersions… (as opposed to debating the economic issues on which you’re totally clueless).”
Best examine your methods before attempting to throw stones at mine. You’ve been riding high on the insults for a while buddy, and not just at me.
“who cares”
LOL, you do. Because you accused me of being a Labor stooge. Keep digging that hole.
Tosh said… (as opposed to debating the economic issues on which you’re totally clueless)…!
Simply put, herein lies the problem.
As I have said before the NBN is an A-Z comprehensive build, encompassing many details/aspects. The economics although important of course, are just one aspect.
While ever the party faithful want to hone in on one aspect ($$$$) instead of weighing the NBN in it’s entirety, it is they who are clueless…!
“That certainly sounds like me criticising you for jumping to conclusions. Perfectly valid.”
Also completely idiotic and ignorant
For example when people say that the NBN will most likely go over budget, its probably due to the fact that 80$ of projects of government projects go overbudget (and yes,someone posted a reference with links around the world)
Using your logic, according to you shooting someone in the head with a “new” gun is not dangerous because we haven’t seen what has happened yet, or jumping into a different volcano sounds like a fabulous idea and no criticism of it is valid because it hasn’t happened yet
Im sorry, but if you can’t use brain cells and put 2 and 2 together to figure out what most likely would happen and instead stick to some idea like some religious church cult, then yeah, go ahead
Deteego, you’re a poster child for fallacy. Let’s step through this:
“Also completely idiotic and ignorant” : Appeal to ridicule/ad hominem fallacy
“For example when people say that the NBN will most likely go over budget, its probably due to the fact that 80$ of projects of government projects go overbudget (and yes,someone posted a reference with links around the world)” :
Appeal to probability fallacy
“Using your logic, according to you shooting someone in the head with a “new” gun is not dangerous because we haven’t seen what has happened yet, or jumping into a different volcano sounds like a fabulous idea and no criticism of it is valid because it hasn’t happened yet”:
False analogy logic
That wasn’t my logic at all, just your incorrect interpretation of my logic. That’s not a new thing for you though.
“Im sorry, but if you can’t use brain cells and put 2 and 2 together to figure out what most likely would happen and instead stick to some idea like some religious church cult, then yeah, go ahead”
And appeal to ridicule/ad hominem again.
No arguments of substance in there, just fallacies. I do find it heartening that both yourself and Tosh have proven your character here with what I suspected elsewhere for a while. The difference being, is that moderator’s don’t watch you two as closely here. The lack of consequences allows your respective natures to light up the room.
@Murdoch
“Otherwise, you’d come to the same conclusion as the the business case, wouldn’t you? That the NBN is not only viable, but value for money.”
It doesn’t actually say that outright because it relies on the optimistic condition of 70% take up, that’s 70% that sign up for a ISP NBN plan not 70% that take a ‘free’ ONT box and do nothing with it and that is coupled with the amazing pessimistic prediction that by 2025 only 16.3% of Australian residences will be wireless only.
As at 2011 about 13% of Australian residences are wireless only and this is a increasing percentage not static, to predict the percentage increase will only be 3% in 14 years beggars belief.
But then there are many aspects of the NBN that beggars belief, including the basic premise that the majority of Australians are gagging for a infrastructure facility that gives them HD video conferencing to four points in the home.
No… WAA (wrong again alain)…
What beggars belief is that a few politically motivated anti-NBNers, will hand-pick projections and assumptions from the NBN Corp/Biz case, whilst ignoring others. Or worse, call the the Corp/biz plan “toilet paper” but gain pick up one or two sets of figures from within the toilet paper [sic] which suits, and then say there, then Corp/biz case says…que?
What also beggars belief is the same people who swear by those projections… yet refuse to accept universally recognised technology projections (Nielsen’s, Moore’s) which clearly demonstrate that anything but the current NBN will be exhausted/obsolete within years…
It’s known either as hypocrisy or stupidity… you choose!
I love the way when you asked these FUDsters a few questions, they squirm, lie, contradict and inevitably, refuse to correspond any further…LOL
And of course they then blame the person asking the basic questions… priceless…!
If NBN policy was modified to become a fibre-to-the-node project, it would be very much less expensive for the taxpayer and facilitate a much faster national roll-out. Consequently the proposal would be acceptable to most people, while while we would be spared many foolish comments, such as some that have been posted above.
>If NBN policy was modified to become a fibre-to-the-node project, it would be very much less expensive for the taxpayer and facilitate a much faster national roll-out. Consequently the proposal would be acceptable to most people, while while we would be spared many foolish comments, such as some that have been posted above.
It wouldn’t be less expensive. It would cost a little more than half as much and would require millions of dollars a year to power and maintain the gigantic node cabinets that will be littered across all of Australia, uglifying the environment. You would also have to spend hundreds of millions every year continuing to repair and maintain a rotting old copper network. And when FTTN speeds became too slow you would need to rebuild the entire network. You can’t use FTTN as a stepping stone to FTTH because the FTTN nodes don’t have enough cores to supply fiber to every household.
Worst of all, you can’t properly offer a wholesale model over FTTN. Liberals would give the money to Telstra to build a brand new FTTN monopoly, making it impossible for anyone to rent their lines.
*It wouldn’t be less expensive.*
yes, a rational FTTN proposal will be substantially less costly.
*the gigantic node cabinets that will be littered across all of Australia uglifying the environment.*
and what about those ugly metal boxes parked along the streets of our cities?
*repair and maintain a rotting old copper network.*
copper doesn’t rot.
*You can’t use FTTN as a stepping stone to FTTH because the FTTN nodes don’t have enough cores to supply fiber to every household.*
yes, you can. you just need to either pull sufficient cores the first around or you provision for larger cable ducts to facilitate a future brownfield backhaul upgrade. the cost of upgrading backhaul isn’t the key determinant in deciding FTTN vs FTTH. the real and substantial benefits of doing FTTN is that you defer the massive costs of replacing the last-mile. backhaul is trivial and relatively cheap to upgrade anything.
stop spreading Whirlpoop FUD.
*Worst of all, you can’t properly offer a wholesale model over FTTN.*
you can definitely do wholesale over FTTN.
*Liberals would give the money to Telstra to build a brand new FTTN monopoly*
previous proposals of government assistance for FTTN to extend the footprint involve a “co-investment”, not “taxpayer donation”.
“yes, a rational FTTN proposal will be substantially less costly”
And maintain Telstra’s last mile monopoly, complete with vertical integration and court cases.
“copper doesn’t rot.”
You’re right. It oxidises.
“yes, you can. you just need to either pull sufficient cores the first around or you provision for larger cable ducts to facilitate a future brownfield backhaul upgrade. the cost of upgrading backhaul isn’t the key determinant in deciding FTTN vs FTTH. the real and substantial benefits of doing FTTN is that you defer the massive costs of replacing the last-mile. backhaul is trivial and relatively cheap to upgrade anything.”
And, once again, you maintain the Telstra vertical integrated monopoly, complete with ACCC court cases and last mile regulatory access. That didn’t work out so well for Australia so far.
“you can definitely do wholesale over FTTN.”
Correction, you can definitely do Telstra wholesale over FTTN. Big difference.
“previous proposals of government assistance for FTTN to extend the footprint involve a “co-investment”, not “taxpayer donation”.”
Uh huh. Let’s give Telstra more money to upgrade their privately owned network (which the Australian taxpayer paid for until it was privatised). Then when Telstra decides to move people to fibre in the best way possible for itself (not Australia) we can co-invest in that as well. You don’t have an issue with a company willing and able to use it’s market dominance to the detriment of both the telecommunications market, and Australian taxpayers?
I bet you haven’t read Wired Brown Land yet.
Well Jason… what about the copper?
What about Telstra owning the copper?
What about… the list goes on and on!
It’s like building a heap asphalt roads and leaving the last kilometre of each, dirt…
It’s all good and well to rave about FTTN, but it is ridiculous, imo!
By the way, if people were thinking that NBN is popular with the voters, maybe check the latest poll:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/pro-tax-sweep-fails-to-turn-voting-tide/story-fn59niix-1226095592027
So basically, NBN is at the very bottom of all the issues that voters are looking for. Once ALP internall polling concurrs with this result for a few months you will probably see the government change position yet again.
Not sure why you are posting this here, its falling on deaf ears
Half the people here get massive hard on’s whenever they hear the word fibre
Well it’s certainly reflected in the on going opinion polls where Labor is falling badly, tech geek web sites like this discussion fascination with the NBN does not translate into votes at the grassroots electorate level.
I tell you what the first forced migrations to the NBN better go off without a hitch with the exact same bottom line retail pricing residents are receiving telephony and or BB today, otherwise Labor are going to be toast twice timed burnt.
All the Coalition will have to say going into the next election is we will try and fix it without saying anything else.
And there are a few soft on’s…
I know which I’d rather be…!
Completely OT but @Renai: Please roll out the Disqus comment system so we can reply to deeply nested comments and down-rank stupid posts into oblivion.
Starting with yours of course.
Yes, because no one will down-rank you alain. You’re so well liked around here after all.
Interestingly over at ZD with the good old thumbs up/down, alain (well his alter alias, advocate) used to get many thumbs down! But there was a rational [sic] explanation for this, according to him…
Me, RS used to (according to advocate/alain) log on and off constantly, to post thumbs down for him!!!!
Seriously…
I could add LOL, but really such childish insecurity is more pitiful than comical!
@Simon Reidy
Opinion about others from one eyed biased no fact pro-NBN deluded supporters like yourself counts for absolutely zilch.
Just as opinions from deluded anti-NBN coalition supporters, that are too afraid to user their real name, post under multiple usernames, get proven wrong on a continual basis (but can never admit it) and rehash the same tired old bullshit on a continual basis means SFA.
Your blatant biased hypocrisy shines bright like a beacon SR, as always.
“that are too afraid to user their real name,”
But it’s ok if pro-NBN posters do it.
” post under multiple usernames,”
But it’s ok if pro-NBN posters do it.
:” get proven wrong on a continual basis (but can never admit it)”
Here we go again, you never have and never do, just saying it happens is not the same thing.
” and rehash the same tired old bullshit on a continual basis means SFA.”
Yes you don’t like your BS being nailed on a continual basis, but that doesn’t mean I will stop.
OK alain, walk the walk then…
Explain why you said “you betcha the NBN will be a success” and a week later suggested “the NBN would fail”.
WHY????
AGAIN, we await anything of substance, evn JUST ONCE!
I’m working on it ;)
Hey Merlin, I think the technical information upon which you are relying needs an update. Also, it would be helpful if you could explain your reasons why “you can’t properly offer a wholesale model over FTTN.”
Don’t hold your breath waiting on facts supporting his opinion from Merlin.
Yeah the NBN is great. Pitty they designed it to stop on the other side of the street. Too bad if you live just out of town. They probably worked out that, ‘out of townies’ do not vote labour. If I have to pay for huge deficits and interest bills in my taxes then at least give me equal access.
Oh, and dont try and tell me that wireless is just as good. If it was then we wouldnt need the NBN would we?
Re: Wireless (link below)
Recent trials of a new CSIRO technology show successful transmission of fixed wireless broadband using a quarter of the number of transmission towers needed by existing technologies. Although less versatile than optical fibre in other ways, it delivers an equal speed of 12 mbps both to and, most importantly, from the home, unlike the NBN which delivers 12 mbps to the home but only 1 to 2 mbps the other way. The new technology transmits analogue or digital signals from existing television towers to the ordinary TV antenna found on the roof of most homes.
http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2011/03/28/3175968.htm
There’s this thing called a microwave dish… causes radio waves to focus into a beam. Pretty cutting edge stuff. Perhaps the seminal 1926 work of Hidetsugu Yagi and Shintaro Uda might also be of interest.
U TALKIN 2 ME… PAL?
I’d like to put forward a candidate for stupidest piece of NBN advocacy of all time (yes, this is even worse than typical RS postings).
http://apcmag.com/Content.aspx?id=7895
There are layers of idiocy at work here; it’s just not possible to narrow it down to a single blunder but the most obvious would have to be the smart meters. Just for starters, the smart meter does not enable you to connect to your toaster or fridge from the “outside world”, the toaster and fridge that you have will be exactly the same with and without the smart meter. The purpose of networking a smart meter is to enable the electricity provider to read billing data and be able to shut down circuits in your house when the spot price of electricity goes up too high and they start cutting into their profit margin (e.g. shutting off your air conditioner on a hot day). This is entirely for the benefit of the electricity provider. Beyond that, even if you think it is a great idea for the electricity provider to deem that you don’t deserve to stay cool on a hot day (no doubt air conditioning at the local government office would be deemed to be a far higher priority) it does not require high bandwidth to achieve that. How much data does a simple ON/OFF token require? Sheesh, this is literally the most basic message in all of computing. One bit!
What’s more, existing smart meter technology has all worked towards wireless solutions, because they don’t need high bandwidth and they don’t want you to walk over an unplug the cable into your local switch when it suits you (i.e. when you want to keep cool on a hot day).
I could vent for a long time on telemedicine and remote learning, I haven’t got the time, other people can point out the stupidity of those sections.
Section 3, statements like “those depending too heavily on Skype are often disappointed” doesn’t even make meaningful sense, but it is pure fluff without the slightest hint of anything to back it up.
Section 4 “gaming” as many people have already pointed out, ping times around 10 to 20 milliseconds are perfectly normal right now on ADSL, reducing this to 3 milliseconds makes absolutely no difference when no human on earth has a reaction time of 20 milliseconds.
Section 5 “smart homes” is all perfectly achievable on 1M links or less… even basic ADSL is overkill for turning a dishwasher off or on.
Section 6 “working from home” can be done right now, for much cheaper than $40 billion, but most employers don’t want it because they don’t like managing people who work from home. This is not a technical limitation, it is a social limitation. Technology does not solve social problems!
Section 7 “entertainment” is already available as cable TV and also over satellite, but they are having trouble finding subscribers. People don’t want to pay for it. The NBN changes absolutely nothing.
Section 8 and the justification for faster upload speeds, firstly standard NBN is actually slower upload than ADSL2+ but also the entire NBN pricing structure is based around small upload speeds so ISPs will essentially be forced into working with this model. If NBN wants to promote the home server model then this might actually be a useful service that would offer some differentiation from the existing market — but despite the ability of the GPON technology to achieve this, their pricing model is a clone of ADSL anyhow. Complete waste of time.
Section 9: there is no way anyone is going to “try on” clothes over the Internet, and even if they were the limitation is not a lack of bandwidth it is a lack of accurate standardization in clothes sizes. This could only have been written by someone who gets most of his clothes purchased by his mother.
Section 10: once again, not a bandwidth intensive application, it is an application that requires specialist equipment, money wasted on the NBN is money not being spent on other development.
This is seriously double facepalm territory, and beyond.
Dearest Tel (tiger), my right of reply…
Gee, what an adult [sic] approach you have…
Since you are unable to keep up in the actual issue debating stakes, you have a cheap shot at RS for no reason but your own desperate, narcissistic, egotistical retribution… LMAO.
I note with interest your clones have resorted to this also (before fleeing)!
Rest assured tiger, as far as stupid comments go, no matter how hard I may (even intentionally) try, you and your 3 idiot mates, are without peer…!
@Tel
Spot on with your comments about the APC article Tel, the application justification for a 100% taxpayer funded FTTH across Australia was always going to be put forward on the back of 95% spin 5% reality.
The Smart meter rubbish is a classic, my recently installed Smart meter is wireless, and I’m sure the little LCD screen is not suitable for HD video. LOL
The other doozy which pro-NBN pundits continually turn a blind eye to because it doesn’t suit the spin agenda at all is the fact that even when the highest speed BB today HFC is available to them most residents don’t want it, so we need higher speed FTTH? – yeah sure we do.
The other spin is that FTTH provides us with the infrastructure that for the first time allows all these ‘new’ wizzo applications, when it is pointed out that thousands of Australian residences have had FTTH under Telstra Velocity and other supplier Greenfield rollouts for years and they don’t have anymore applications available to them than a punter on bog standard ADSL2+ or ADSL1 the response is a deafening silence.
alain says… “The other spin is that FTTH provides us with the infrastructure that for the first time allows all these ‘new’ wizzo applications, when it is pointed out that thousands of Australian residences have had FTTH under Telstra Velocity and other supplier Greenfield rollouts for years and they don’t have anymore applications available to them than a punter on bog standard ADSL2+ or ADSL1 the response is a deafening silence”.
Well to show your conviction, why don’t you go back to dial up? Since you truly believe progress hasn’t and “won’t continue to happen”… go on!
Now, here comes the silence…!
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